Get Booked – Madelaine And The Forest 230123

Hello, you're listening to Get Booked with me, Hazel Butterfield, for Women's and Men's Radio Station. Welcome to today's show, and on today's show we are going to be discussing Madeline and the Forest by the author Beth Wood. Madeline and the Forest is a remarkable book that plunges the reader into a world inhabited by poets Mad Men. The Surrey-based author explains, Madeline and the Forest starts by describing relationships as a game of Jenga where we offer and accept or reject versions of reality. I've always been fascinated by the concept of perception, how I remember a particular holiday or argument or the most intimate moment will be affected by by my state of mind, my dominant emotions, and my reasons for summoning it up. I think that changes everything. This insightful and beautifully written book has allowed Beth Wood to really show off her artistic and creative side. Beth continues, people have said that Madeline and the Forest makes them realize things that they have always thought, or things which they once knew but had lost sight of. I love that. As a story, it resonates because everyone knows what it is like to be thrown off centre to the extent that we begin to question everything. We all have our own forest that we tread. Today's guest, Beth Wood, started an inclusive theatre company, Prospero, back in 2015 and began to use her mindfulness training helping actors becoming even more fascinated with how the brain works. She then retrained and co-founded the company Mind Fitness, which focuses on helping people in areas around mental health and well-being. Beth has written over 60 plays, performed internationally, and for many years wrote the drama activities for the Longman's Shakespeare series. Today is most definitely going to be a packed show, and I cannot wait to to introduce and welcome Beth to the show. Beth Wood does indeed epitomise everything that Get Booked is about. Get Booked is all about talking to authors, chatting about anything and everything books related, and all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books and writing can provide. Sit back and let us entertain you with a different guest each week, sharing who they are, what they do, and what inspires them. Now time to meet today's guest to discuss Madeline and the Forest, as promised. Now, Madeline Parker is bright and funny. She has lived the life of the struggling poet and recently found commercial success without too much compromise. As she tells a press conference, she believes in happy endings like in fairy tales. But when a central relationship crumbles, Maddie's mind and her life start to fragment. She tries to claw back as her subconscious becomes the landscape of her life, but the forest won't be banished. It lives, it breathes, and it waits. This book explores how complicated the mind can be when dealing with change, trauma, and loss, making sense of our reality, trying to reason with our thoughts, the beautiful power of writing when deciphering what is going on in the brain and how the mind turns to fog when dealing with heartache. And when our mind is lost, we look for alternative paths anywhere and everywhere. And Madeline is a creative, and aren't all creatives slightly mad? Hi, Beth, thank you for joining me on Get Booked. How are you? Oh, hi Hazel, thank you. Yes, I'm very well, thank you. I thought that was an amazing introduction. I'm going to remember what you said there. You are welcome. Well, as we slightly said off air, I've kind of woken up all foggy-brained myself because this is one of those books that has really got into my dream cycle. I've been off in the forest for the last few nights and woken up going, "Oh, what is real?" I do love these books because it kind of is a different perspective on how the brain works when we're dealing with trauma and loss, but bizarrely it also deals with alongside the different perspective of fairy tales as well, which is what Madeline focused on. I think they were beautifully interwoven, and there seems to be quite a few different programs and books out there that are looking at like the different perspectives of events in history and how we all— I did actually, when I first started reading the book, I called my friend, um, who we always talk about, um, how ridiculous life can be sometimes in the various books that I'm reading. And the fact that you kick off the book with such a simple poem, that is, it kind of epitomizes not just marriage but life itself, which is, um, marriage is always like a Jenga puzzle. Your reality, my reality, your reality, my reality. How many turns can we take before it all falls down? And it is— we, we don't see things differently— the same, sorry. Um, So yeah, let's, let's jump into Madeline and the Forest. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about, about the book? What, what happens? Um, so very much as you've said, sort of, Maddie is, is a, is a creative. She's a poet. She has, um, very, as, as well as a husband at the beginning, she has a daughter Alice, and that relationship is incredibly important to her. Um, and she has been writing her poems about the Greek myths and has recently sort of started writing, uh, poems about fairy tales. She gets to a point where she's starting to sell and not have to justify the life of the creative in the way that she, she used to, and she feels a little bit more comfortable in her own skin. And, and things are going very well. And I think quite often that's the time when we are least able to deal with the rough stuff that happens, because we're sailing along and we don't, you know, we just don't expect it to, to the rug to be taken from underneath us. Um, and then, as you said, a central relationship with a husband falls to pieces, and she kind of breaks. She has, uh, she has a breakdown. And as that rupture happens, and she starts to kind of move into fragmented realities, and she's trying to hold it together. Um, the characters gradually from her, her poems, from her creative life, soon start to bleed through to the life that she's now inhabiting. And she— I guess the rest of the, the book really is her trying to find her way back, trying to find her way out, um, but also to, to gain something from it. You know, I think that when we break, or when people experience trauma, um, it isn't that they can't recover. I do absolutely believe that, you know, we can recover from what breaks us, but we never come back to the person that we were before. You know, we always come back with, with changes. And a lot of those are, you know, can be beneficial changes. So I suppose she tries to take back into the new self at the end something of what she's learned along the way. I think what really struck me is how this is a lot about the brain as well, because I think the brain for Madeline goes into protective mode. And so she's kind of— she's writing incredibly because she's on a completely different plane. And I think— I know that when I've had certain struggles with mental health, some of my writing has been the best because I've been so introspective and there hasn't been outside influences because you're kind of stuck in this protective mode as well. And it's, it can be quite transformative because when you're broken that much, you have to rebuild yourself. And that's kind of liberating when you get to build yourself back up again in a different way. But it's extremely scary doing so. And I think for Madeline, she is also struggling with the fact of how to rebuild. But when she does rebuild, she has to face the reality. And a lot of the time our brain is protecting us from facing the reality because it's too traumatic. Yeah, I think that's— I think it's exactly what you've just said. And I think that, you know, one of the ways that the brain protects us is by compartmentalizing the different bits of our life. And so sometimes when we are broken or when we come to the edge and we're dealing with trauma, we get to see how things are linked and connected in a way that we don't most of the time because You know, we have to, our brain has to organize our thoughts in a way that we can, you know, get through the day to day. Well, something that I quite often talk about with friends and actually with the listeners while I'm chatting on Get Booked is about the power of writing and how it can help us order our thoughts when it's all jumbled up, when we're going through something. Crazy or traumatic. There's— part of the issue is that we can't think straight because there's so many things whirling around in there. And if you write them down, it helps to order them. And then we seem to subconsciously know that we don't have to keep on thinking about them because they're written somewhere, they're ordered somewhere, and we can start, as you said, compartmentalizing, um, and understanding. I think especially to some of my friends who said they can't sleep in the night because things are just rolling around, I say spend 15 minutes before you go to bed writing what's going on in your head. It's a bit like a brain dump. Yes, absolutely. That sounds extremely crass, but yeah, and it just— I find it so helpful. And obviously in the book, that's what she's doing as well. She's trying to order her thoughts and bring some sort of meaning to whatever her brain is going through. It's a fantastic book. You must have— I wonder though, when you actually wrote this book, did you— could you even do it in home, or did you have to go out somewhere somewhere and then suddenly have a little bit of a Ctrl+Alt+Delete before you came back home, otherwise you'd be a little bit in the space. Yes, especially at the beginning when I was writing at the beginning. I did write a lot of it in— I don't know if you know it, but there's St. Martin's in the Field in London. There's a— it's a church and it has a restaurant in a crypt underneath, and I did quite a lot of writing there, and quite a lot of the writing um, on, on boats actually going around the Thames. Wow. There's a wonderful boat that you can get, and it's— I can't remember what it is, it's like £18 or something, which is quite a lot just to go from one place to the other, but you can just sit on it for the day and go round and round. So I, I did that for quite a lot of days, just, you know, sitting. But yes, I think, you know, um, yes, it was too hard a couple of, you know, for a few of the days to to actually sit here and write. But I absolutely agree with what you said, Hazel, about the kind of brain dump, especially as you said at the end of a day. I think that that's such a brilliant thing to get into the habit of doing. The power of writing and just kind of— it helps you order your thoughts when you write it down. You can kind of see what's going on, but when it's just a lot of words jumbled up, it's sometimes can be more confusing. Yes, absolutely. It's just a great way of getting rid of the, at least some of the noise in your mind, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I must say, I've just Googled St. Martin's in the Fields. That's getting added to the list of places to visit. Good. Incredible. It's brilliant. It's absolutely fantastic. Yeah, I love it as a space. Um, and it's, it's, it feels really kind of creative and Um, yeah, it's a very warm and friendly space. Yeah, love it. One of my, one of my favorite to go to write places. Well, I quite often just go off to places, uh, in and around London. I'm a Southwest Londoner, and, and I go and meet the books because I, I have to read quite a lot, not just for this show but for other shows and for my blogs and whatnot. And I love just reading in all these different places and This is the thing that I missed in lockdown because I couldn't read as much because I had my two children, and sometimes you get so involved with the books that you kind of need to make sure that you do have that separate space. Same with writing as well. So I didn't write particularly that much in lockdown because we couldn't go to the cafes and places like St Martin's in the Field. But thank you for that recommendation. I can't wait to go. Well, during lockdown, there's, um, just at the back of where I live— I live in Caterham in Surrey— and, um, there's a golf course, and of course it wasn't used during lockdown. So I must admit, I kind of climbed a bit of a mud bank and went and sat there quite a lot, sort of by their little lake. Yeah, you forget reading and writing. That's fantastic. I mean, I did get into a lot of Audibles. Yes, because when we were allowed out for our 1-hour walk, or a little bit more if you were a little bit out there, Um, that was my way of being able to, to read and be out with the dog. And yes, if you weren't really supposed to, unless you could find, um, a very isolated golf course, you couldn't get away with just sitting somewhere. You get in trouble. Yes, I know. Even on the golf course, I used to try and walk around quite a lot so I wasn't sort of found sitting by the lake. God forbid. I'm quite intrigued because it's such an in-depth novel. How long did it take you to write this? I had written, I think, 2 drafts of it in about 2015 and '16, and then— or maybe it probably took me about 2 years to— or a year and a half. And then I knew there was a lot that I wanted to do with it still. And then what I did find lockdown was very good for was coming back to it and rewriting and revising. And then I think I got to sort of draft 7 or something and sent it out to, you know, people. I'm very lucky. I have my daughter, she does grant writing mostly, but she's also a very good writer. And I've always had this sort of relationship. She sends me her writing and I send her mine, and we kind of red pen it to the point where people would think it was brutal, but there's no brutality involved. And so, you know, I sort of sent it out to a few people, got it back and did some more work on it, and then sent it out near the end of 2020, I think. Yes. Right. And it takes a while, doesn't it? The whole— you were published by the Conrad Press. It's quite— you spend ages writing your book and then you're told it's going to be another year before it's published with back and forth. And, and book— I must say, I love the book cover. It is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. I went from the second they sent it to me, I was like, oh my goodness, that is just amazing. It's perfect. It epitomizes what you were trying to do, I think. It really does. Absolutely stunning book. I've had so many people say, you know, how lovely a cover it is. It's just fantastic. Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. And I must— and how was the idea conceived? Is it just because— I mean, I know that you write a lot of plays and you're quite creative, so was it just one of those things that kept on bumbling, or did you— how did it come about for you? Well, I suppose there's, you know, we I would definitely say, you know, it's not necessary to write your own story or anything like that, but I do think it really helps if you write about things that you are interested in, because then it never feels like work. Yeah. When you're, when you're writing it. So I suppose there's, you know, there's a lot of things in the book that are my passions in life, you know, fairy tales and quantum and mental health and actually the stars. I love astronomy. So there's, you know, there's a lot of things which I suppose were kind of— have been components of my life for a long, long time. And then in 2000— I think it was 2014, the theatre company that I direct for, which is an inclusive theatre company, we work with people with neurodiverse actors and people with mental health challenges, and we took a play called Red and the Wolf up to Edinburgh. And so I suppose that fairy tale was kind of sitting in my mind around the time that I started to write Madeline in about sort of 2015. And I've always loved all the fairy tales. I think, you know, I think that they're a really important way of exploring this kind of dark issues in life in a safe environment for kids. I think, you know, we— I think they shouldn't be sanitized. Um, I think it's important that, you know, that, that the dark aspects of it are what we— you know, we— it's quite cathartic to, to look at them. So I suppose there's quite a lot of it that had been in my mind. And then I guess in terms of sort of parallels with life, you know, we've We've all had our, our broken relationships, and so that's, you know, a part of, part of that as well. I must say, when I was reading Madeleine's reworked version of Hansel and Gretel, um, it kind of struck me that we all know that most of Disney's films and stories are actually ridiculously brutal when you, when you take the romanticism out of it. But then Hansel and Gretel, that's a Yes, no, the original versions of nearly all the fairy tales are so dark, aren't they? Yeah, kind of other perspective on it. You're kind of rewriting it from— I love this alternative perspective. I wanted to ask you, did you watch The Affair on Sky Atlantic? No, what is it? Tell me and I'll have to have a look. Oh, it's brilliant. So basically it is done from two sides of, of the characters as to what happens. And we always perceive what's happening differently. We think that sometimes we react differently, more reasonably, whereas the other side will think that somebody reacted atrociously, or that they would be more reasonable than what the other side did. And it kept on showing these different perspectives of how this affair came around and how they first met and how situations unfolded. And but we do— this is why I love the poem, the Jenga poem, right at the beginning of Mabel in the Forest, because we, we've got to remember, just because we see something a particular way, we can't get angry for something— for the way somebody else sees a situation, because it's not the same as them. We are all different, which it would be horrifically dull if we were all the same. And so I do love these kind of texts. There's there's a few books that are rewriting history from, say, rather than the perspective of the hero, it's the perspective of the next-door neighbor and whatnot. Yes, yes. And you just think, yeah, we need to open our minds a little bit. Just because, I don't know, your best friend says a particular situation that's happening with her partner or her best friend, it is her perspective, it's her reality. It's not necessarily the reality. No, that— and it doesn't really exist, does it? The reality? No. And it broadens the mind, but it also kind of messes with you a little bit. Yeah. No, it really does. And I think, you know, we, we grow up and we're so encouraged to make assumptions and put labels on things, you know. And so we do assume that the way we're seeing a situation is the same. You know, even simple. It'd be really interesting, wouldn't it, just to have a very simple chat or like we're having now, you know, go away and say, what did you see? What did you know? And how different that would be. Every single conversation in our life, you know, we're seeing it different. Well, this is the other person. This is what I love about my job where I get to read these incredible books for Get Booked and then I get to chat chat to the author about what they think and what I thought. And I just, I love it. The, um, when the interview's over, I kind of go out, walk my dog, and a little spring in my step because I'm like, yay, that was really good fun. It was cathartic. Yes. And as I'm reading the books, I write notes because I know I'm going to actually get to ask the author what they think of that particular segment and chat to them about it. And Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic. I think you have a great job. I would love to do that too. It is good. It is brilliant. What I am keen to know is, I mean, I'm assuming you're quite a reader yourself. Yes, absolutely. So what are your favourite books out there at the moment, or favourite genre? Oh, at the moment, so I really, I love Madeline Miller. I don't know if you know her. She's Song of Achilles and Circe, and she— it's retellings of sort of Greek myths. I really love— I really love her. I think she's absolutely fantastic. I'm reading at the moment Isabel Allende's Long Petal of the Sea, which is about the Spanish Civil War. Yeah. And I started writing that because I'm— I write plays for my theatre company and other theatre companies, Sometimes we have a devising process and they come up with the ideas and then I have to go away and script. I'm working— I'm doing a project with a group of boys from a special school, 15, 16-year-old boys, and they— it's boys with autism and ADHD and other sort of complex needs. And they came up with the idea of a United Nations scenario that then crossed into an alternate reality where— because they were about to vote on whether to escalate a war situation— they cross into an alternate reality where the war is already happening and it's horrific, and then cross back and have to make the same decision. And I asked them sort of what what kind of a war they wanted it to be. And we sort of talked around, you know, whether— how technological they wanted it, and they didn't. So, I thought a good kind of parallel would be the Spanish Civil War. And so, Isabel Allende's Long Petal of the Sea— she's Chilean, beautiful writer— is around the Spanish Civil War. So, I started sort of dipping in and out of it help write the play and then just got totally hooked and absolutely loved it. So totally recommend that to anybody. It's brilliant. And then the book that I read just before that was Elif Shafak's The Island of Missing Trees. Oh, one of my favourites. Oh my goodness. So that was one of the few books where, you know, when you kind of get to the last couple of chapters,, and you have to ration yourself because you don't want it to end. That was one of those. So yeah, totally, absolutely would recommend that. Beautifully written, absolutely beautiful, beautiful book. I did read Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, and it's actually quite a big book, but it's just like the words just disintegrate as you're going all the way through. Yes. And it looks huge, but I read it in about 2 and a half days, and as I was getting to the end, I was going, please don't end, please don't end, but I need I need to finish it, I need to find out what happens. And then that was definitely one of those. Oh, it is, it's horrible, isn't it? And then sometimes for like a day or two after it, I'm going around going, oh, I haven't got it to look forward to this evening. And then as soon as I finish the book and I grieve a little bit, and I give myself, you know, maybe half an hour or so, and then I pick up the next book. Yeah, you have to, don't you? Yeah. Yeah, it's like an addiction. Yeah, no, I think anything that's kind of, you know, so it's exactly the same when we're, you know, with the theatre company when we're doing a play, you know, you finish the run and the next couple of days are really, really hard because that kind of, I don't know, that story, it kind of, it melts into your life, doesn't it? So you almost start to see everything in your life in relation to that story. Yeah. What, you know, whatever it is that you're doing that takes up, you know, 3 or 4 hours of your day. So yeah, and then suddenly you have to find something else to do that with. But that's good because it makes you move on. It's like a cycle, isn't it? You've got to keep on making sure that you fill that void. Yes, you absolutely do. Yeah, and I think so many people in lockdown, or friends of mine, got back into reading. That was so good. You know, yes, it was, it, I think it was one, there were so many things that happened in lockdown that were obviously, um, incredibly scary and worrying and horrific, but there were so many people that also got back into it. There are certain parts of lockdown that really worked well for some people as well, and the fact that people get back into books and start reading and what that does to the brain, there is there are so much that's going on at the moment that's affecting people's mental health, and tech has a part to play in that, and understanding the world has a part to play in that, and reading can either give us a break or help us understand a little bit more. And actually reading the words kind of refreshes what's going on in the brain. The damage that tech does and the blue light does Yeah, the actual process of reading words can help to reconfigure that a little bit. There's, there's some science behind it. Yes, there is. I keep on forgetting the exact science, but I know it's there and that's all that matters. Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, I mean, I'm— everything that I, I, we do with, with Prospero and I do in the other parts of life, we, we try and build mental health and well-being into it. You know, that's kind of our USP and And, you know, we— exactly what you've just said, Hazel, that, you know, anything that we do that's creative builds neural pathways between the higher thinking brain, the prefrontal cortex, and the neocortex, where most of our imagination sits. And we now know that actually that is one of the best things we can do for mental health and well-being, which is just brilliant. So everyone that's been involved in, you know, all the drama therapies and art therapies and just reading books like you said, and has realized how important that is. Now we know why. And isn't that amazing? That's fantastic. It really is. It's always good to try and look at the positive sides of what can also be perceived as being a negative situation. And I would like to find out a little bit more about Prospero, where we— where our listeners can find out more about it, and if you can tell them why you set it up and what you do there. Yes, absolutely. So my background is in theatre, and I was working in sort of mainstream theatre for a number of years. And then actually what happened is I was working at a regional theatre in Surrey, and they asked if I would do a community project. And I ended up working with the Queen Elizabeth Foundation— they're now called Freewheelers— which is a company that did drama and theatre and the arts for people with disabilities, mostly people in chairs at that point. And I loved it so much that I went and retrained and I moved into inclusive theatre. So Prospero was started in 2014, and it's a company that exists— it uses drama and theatre as a sort of developmental tool to kind of help improve the quality of life for people with disabilities and mental health challenges, and as we said, sort of neurodiverse. And it's inclusive rather than exclusive, so probably about 40 to 50% of the members across all of the, the work that we do have some kind of a challenge. But we, you know, it's really about building a company that accepts each other's otherness. And we tour plays, we write plays and we tour plays. We, you know, the last play that we took to Edinburgh got 4 and 5 star reviews. So, you know, we challenge, you know, it's quite challenging, quite, you know, artistically demanding. Yep. And totally, absolutely love it. So, you know, very, very happy. And then we do quite a lot of work in, uh, in schools. So we have, for example, a 3-year project funded by Children in Need where, um, each school gives us their most 15 or 20 anxious pupils with, you know, high levels of anxiety, and we work using mindfulness and CBT and drama therapy techniques around storytelling. Stories are everything. And, you know, work over a long period of time to give them the tools and techniques that they can use to live their best life, I suppose. I've just given it a quick follow on Instagram. Oh, brilliant, thank you, that's really brilliant. Oh, there's a website which is www.frostbrotheatre.net rather than .com, but .net, and that's got a little video on it which sort of gives, you know, tells that 5-minute video which talks about the work, which is quite— I think one of our funders asked us if we could put that on it. But thank you for following, that's lovely. No, you're, you're welcome. It looks wonderful. I'm kind of— I'm looking up at your Tuesday Sandwich Club as well. Yes, I love a Tuesday sandwich. I'm down for a Tuesday sandwich. You can't beat a Tuesday sandwich. Sandwich or salad? But it's not just, um, it's not just Prospero though, is it? I mean, you've already co-written another book, Unlock You: Be Calm, Confident, and Happy in Just 10 Minutes a Day. You seem to kind of really focus on the mental health and mental well-being and inclusivity elements. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so yes, that was published by Pearson. Yeah, in 2019, I think. Yes, we were. So my sort of background in terms of that was the sort of mindfulness side. I suppose I started looking at mindfulness because of the work, the inclusive work that I do. A lot of the guys that I work with can only inhabit the present moment. And so, you know, when mindfulness was still seen as something very tree-huggy, I trained and learned a long, long, long time back. Um, and then my business partner Andy Barker, he was— his background was CBT. And so we sort of built together a program that, that fused the two, fuses the two. That's essentially what Unlock You is. And how it works is, I don't know if you know or done any CBT, but it's about changing, trying to challenge and change the sort of beliefs that we have that are in impacting negatively on our life, but actually, you know, we, we defend them to the hilt because, you know, we've had them forever and we may not even know they're there. And so what the mindfulness is, is sort of fused in so that it builds you, it gives you that little bit of space, um, so that you, you know, you're much more likely to be able to, uh, to, to step back and be able to realize that we can choose the way we respond to any situation. We can choose the stories that we tell about ourselves. Um, so yeah, the mindfulness is specifically sort of used in that, in that way. I like the idea of 10 minutes as well, because sometimes we, we just decide to do nothing because the task seems so mammoth. But all it takes is 5 or 10 minutes of making very small changes that then just become part of the way we do things. And then gradually these 5 and 10 minutes, you know, if we do that 10 times, yeah, then we do it 50 times and it's always just small bites. It's like when people crash diet, it's ridiculous. Just make small changes that become part of your lifestyle. Yes. And it's funny, I was actually in Waterstones the other day. I'm a huge fan. So I see a bookshop, I just go in and I was like, why? Yeah, I'm like, I don't need a book. I'm just not with my books, but I'll go in anyway. And I walked in and I saw the mental health section. I was just like, yeah, these books look incredible. But yet 15 years ago you'd be like, I hope nobody sees me looking at the mental health section. They'll think I'm crazy. Can you remember? Yes, absolutely. It's incredible, isn't it? Whereas I think it's now something like— I might— I think this is right. 70% of the top 100 FTSE companies use mindfulness now. Yeah, no, because it works. Now, following on from that, you do have Developing Your Emotional Health due out in autumn. Um, so it's— it was due out this autumn, the last autumn, but it, it's now looking like it's going to be about a March release date. So I do, um, a lot of work around mind fitness for performers particularly, um, and, uh, Developing Your Emotional Health is actually being published by Nick Hern, which is a theater bookshop So although it is, you know, it's written for performers, it's just started to be sent out to people to, you know, get feedback from. And so far people have come back saying it doesn't necessarily have to be for performers. It would, you know, work for lots of— almost everybody. So hopefully it will be read in a wider context as well. But it's largely written for the performance industry. I've just gone on to there as well, Nick Hearn Books. You've got Julie, uh, Hesmon Hall and, and various other books on there that just all need to be added to my TBRs. Yes, absolutely. Oh, Nick Hearn is amazing. It's just the most amazing thing. They have this incredible sort of office in North London, um, where, where you go for meetings, and it honestly, it would be like heaven for you or me. It's, it's books from wall to wall, every single room that you go in, you know, you— it takes about 3 hours to leave. Right, I like that one. I'm gonna have a very busy day in London, aren't I? Absolutely. Well, best of luck with that one as well. I just want to point out to all of our listeners as well that you are actually giving 50% of all book profits to Prospero from Madeline and the Forest, aren't you? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, you know, like most, um, charity— so we're, you know, we're a charity. Like most, um, places at the moment, it's not easy in terms of funding applications. And, um, we were very lucky during lockdown, there was quite a lot of kind of corona response things, that, uh, funding that came out for companies that were working with people with anxiety especially, and mental health challenges, but that is kind of dwindling away now. So yes, it's, you know, I spend quite a lot of my time writing funding bids, and the proceeds of Madeline was, you know, hope, cross fingers, will certainly help to any, you know, any contributions are brilliant towards what we do. Brilliant. And where can our listeners get hold of this book? So it's on Amazon. It's in— I've had, I think someone found it in one of the Waterstones this week, but I'm not sure which one that was. Woo-hoo! Which is really good. Send the picture if you ever see it in Waterstones. You want pictures, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. No, that's very, very true. And it's in quite a few of the kind of independent bookshops who honestly I think they've taken it because of the COVID The COVID is so beautiful, so they like to have it in the, in the shop. And then a lot of the other online places, Wordery and all of those, uh, I can't remember what the other ones are. We will find links and we'll put them up on my Twitter. Oh, thank you. @NuttyButty. So there you go, we make sure that everybody can get hold of the book. Um, now before I run out of time— yeah, we should have extended this show. Um, what I do like to ask my guests on the show is for 3 top tips for mental health and well-being, which I've got a feeling you're going to have some cracking tips. Oh, well, the pressure, the pressure. I'm gonna go for the simple things, I think, uh, you know, simple techniques that are, like you said, you know, if you, if you, you're much more likely to do something and keep doing it if you, if it's, if it can be built easily into your, into your daily life. I, I suppose the thing that I would definitely recommend, very simple, is gratitude, you know, practicing gratitude. I think a little bit like mindfulness, it used to be seen as, as a bit sort of a new agey concept, But really, it's just the, the thing of noticing what you do have rather than noticing what you don't. Yeah. And, and in terms of the brain, it's really interesting that, um, the brain is unable to think a negative thought and feel gratitude at the same time. So it's a, it's a really good way of dispelling the negative. Um, so at the end of the day, I always try and and finish the day by just writing down 3 things that I feel grateful for. So that would be one. My second sort of thing, I think, would be just remembering that, you know, we're not perfect, we're human. You know, every— we all have negative thoughts and particularly negative self-talk. You know, that's part of the human condition. But just remembering that we don't have to listen to it, you know, we, we can choose to step away from it. Once it, you know, comes into our mind, we can let it go. You know, just because we think something doesn't mean to say we have to believe it, let alone act upon it. Um, and my third one, which I think largely because in this country we're just not good at it is to celebrate your achievements. You know, it's so important, isn't it? You know, what we— when I work with, with companies and organizations from the US, for example, they're so much better at it than we are. But we, we learn to be modest from a really early age. You know, we, we kind of trade in singing our own song for being liked when we're quite young. And, um, you know, sometimes we even get to like the end of a really big project, like a production or something, and all you do is you build, you know, breathe a sigh of relief and go on straight on to the next one without even taking the time to think about how, how well it's gone. Yeah. Um, but just, just the small things, you know, you, uh, you managed to make it to the gym, or, you know, you the shopping for a relative or whatever, whatever those are, just hit the success button. Just celebrate, celebrate every positive thing that you do through the day. That would be really important, I think. Well, it's a bit like, uh, speculate to accumulate, isn't it? They sometimes people think, oh, I can't stop, I can't stop and think about this because I've got something else to do. Well, actually, no, if you sit back even just 5 or 10 minutes, appreciate what you've done then you will be in a better frame of mind to proceed, in which case you will do better work moving forward. I mean, unsurprisingly, your tips are very focused on retraining the brain in the most simplest and smallest of ways that are so effective. And yes, we just— sometimes people are scared of stopping in case they'll be— they'll feel guilty or lazy for stopping in any way, shape, or form. But there's there is no glory in just keeping on moving on and producing less effective work because you're not giving yourself the space to appreciate and assess what you have done. Yes, I think, and what you said there is the key. It's, you will be producing less effective work, you know, or, or doing, you know, whatever. It's like, you know, if you don't put your oxygen mask on you first You know, which it feels so counterintuitive, but you know, if you don't actually get yourself into a good place, you won't realize the support that you're giving someone else isn't as good as it could or should be. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I think exactly what you said. You have to take those, you have to take the breaks, you have to be able to step away in order to be able to be the best, do the best that you can in whatever situation that But it is brilliant. Beth absolutely loved those tips. And finally, and one of my favorite ones, I love the suggestions that my guests come out for this, is just for somebody in the public eye that you admire, um, so, so we can refocus and give people ideas of who they should be looking out for. Okay, well, I, I don't know if you, you know her work, but if not, have a look. So she's She's a real hero of mine. She's called Verna Myers, and she does an awful lot of work around diversity. She has a book which is absolutely brilliant, which is How to Go from Well-Meaning to Well-Doing. But also she's got a couple of really brilliant TED Talks, and I just love the way that she— you know, we started this conversation kind of talking about challenging assumptions, and she's so good at doing that. And there's this brilliant story that she, she tells where she got onto a big aircraft going a long, long way. And it was a female pilot. And she thought, you know, how brilliant, female pilot, until it hit turbulence. And then the first thought that came into her mind was, you know, I hope this woman can fly this thing. I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. It's so brilliant, isn't it? But, you know, unless we do, you know, confront that and own it, we can't change it, can we? So it's— yeah, she's absolutely a wonderful woman. Have a look at that. But I also do think, you know, we— it's really brilliant to kind of look for the heroes in your own community. Like, there's a woman that runs— where I live, who runs the local community centre, Westway Community Centre. And she is phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. You know, it's, um, it's— I think we can be really inspired by people in our own community. Oh, I've got just on the end of my road, there's, um, a newsagent called Meat and Deep, and they are a Hindu family who just crank up the heating and offer— and they just say, if you're cold or you're struggling, they actually have a little box outside as well of food, and they say, don't you come in if you can't afford food, take something from the tub and go. They're very sort of, you know, deep. Yes. One of the sons, he's hugely into encouraging people to watch out when they're walking home in the dark to make sure they don't stand on snails and things like that. He's absolutely wonderful. And they open on Christmas Day, not to sell anything, but just for people who are on their own or, you know, can't make it home. That's amazing. That's so amazing. Amazing, isn't it? I mean, if you check their Facebook page, their TikTok, their Twitter, their Instagram— I mean, they're even on YouTube. I think it was, um, Bono did a music video and he ended up getting them to be in it, and so there was millions of hits. One of them's TikTok alone has a couple hundred thousand hits every time he says something, and they're just this tiny little newsagent but they just, they're all about complete selfless giving. Yes. And they are brilliant. And sometimes, I mean, my 12-year-old just goes in to say hi sometimes, or, um, just to chat to him. And every time I go in, he's like, oh, I was chatting to Jacob again. He's really sweet. He's helping me understand some other thing about the youth of today. What was it called? What were they called? I want to look them up. Meet 'em Deep Newsagents. And deep musicians. I'll send you a link as well. They're brilliant. They're just, they're kind of iconic in Twickenham where I live. They are absolutely brilliant. But yeah, there, there are fantastic people anywhere and everywhere, and it's nice to kind of celebrate it and focus on the good people that we see rather than some of the more negative influences we have out there on social media. Um, yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah, there'll always be a whole group, won't there? You know, where, where I live, where it is very community orientated, you know, there's, um, you know, you go to all the different sort of committees and things that I, I, I kind of work with or sit on, and there's so many Mr. and Mrs. Caterhams, you know, that, and they're all out there doing their bit, and it's just amazing. I love that. Yeah, let's focus on all the incredible people and things that are happening out there. I must say, Beth, I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting to you today on Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. Madeline in the Forest. Yeah, Madeline in the Forest is fantastic, although it messed with my dreams a little bit. But, you know, quite trippy. I loved it. Listeners, go out and get it. You'll have an absolute joyride. And all the best of luck with your developing your emotional health. That's eventually going to come out as well. And listeners, pop on to proprotheatre.net to find out a little bit more. Thank you so much, and I'm looking forward to having you back on the show when the next book is released. I would absolutely love to. Thank you so much, Hazel. Thank you for asking me. You're very welcome. Brilliant. Now time for a quick reading from today's guest, Beth Wood, who will be reading an extract of Madeline and the Forest. Samson was there, thank God. He placed one hand into the back of her neck and ran the other down her left arm. She changed hands and let her fingers move around her waist. Samson followed, first with with his hands and then his lips. She tilted her head to one side. She touched her right cheek. Samson kept his hands on her waist and kissed her ear. She kissed his back as he melted, literally melted, like a wax doll. She was certain that she had stepped into a parallel universe. She was floating through the stars, not falling, just like an astronaut who has come adrift but has a new and clear perspective. A reality shift, that was it, she was certain. It was the certainty you have just rarely when thoughts and feelings come together and your whole being seems to vibrate with the same chord. A reality shift, shifting sands, not grain by grain but a whole desert. I can even smell the dust. She was laughing at herself. She was dancing. She often danced when she had moments of insight. She was thinking science fiction. It wasn't her genre, but she could learn. That proved she could learn. That was something she could do. Alice would approve of that, as long as she ate at the same time. She went online and looked at one science fiction site after another, one another. Reality shifts used in a myriad of stories and contexts. Eventually she moved from science fiction to science. At one point the lights went out, all of them. She hadn't realized that it was dark outside. Wasn't Alice coming? Maybe she had said tomorrow. Maddie stood up. She hadn't known that the light in the porch wasn't working. It wasn't the bulb. She went to the cupboard via the toolbox and changed the fuse, not thinking about what she was doing until after she'd done it and the lights were back on. Well, that was easy. Have I done that before? Surely Samson had always changed bulbs and fuses, but it seemed so natural. This wasn't the old Maddie getting in her own way. She was sure she wasn't thinking with the usual part of brain. She looked at the screeds of notes she'd made about a subject she wasn't interested in. She didn't feel like herself. Until now, she hadn't realized there was a way of feeling like yourself. I wonder what part of your brain you use to realize that you are not using the usual part of your brain. She knew that she should be calling someone, asking for help, but if she was so far from from being herself, then wouldn't Kate and the others be friends of another Maddy? Yes, that made sense. Look for the positive, Samson had said. He'd always said that. Why had she seen it as an endearing trait rather than a call to action? Look for the positive. So what's positive in not being yourself? That you can be anything else, anyone 'Else.' 'All right, I will.' That was a reading from today's guest, Beth Wood, on Madeline and the Forest, published by the Conrad Press. A quick reminder, Madeline and the Forest is about Madeline Parker, bright and funny. She has lived the life of a struggling poet and recently found commercial success without too much compromise. As she tells in a press conference, she believes in happy endings, like in fairy tales. But when a central relationship crumbles, Maddie's mind and her life start to fragment. She tries to claw back as her subconscious becomes the landscape of her life, but the forest won't be banished. It lives, it breathes, and it waits. This book explores how complicated the mind can be when dealing with trauma, change, and loss, making sense of life and our own reality, trying to reason with our thoughts, the beautiful power of writing when deciphering what is going on in our brain, and how the mind tends to fog when dealing with heartache. When our mind is lost, we look for alternative paths anywhere. I have thoroughly enjoyed chatting to today's guest Beth, a word about Madeleine and the forest and so much more. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did, and a huge thank you to Beth for giving us her time. Just reminder, you can listen in to Get Booked every day of the week at 5 PM on women's radio station, every Tuesday at 4 PM on men's radio Radio Station, or you can catch up on previous shows at womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. You can also find out what I've been reading recently on my blog at hazelbutterfield.com. Please do feel free to get in touch with me via my website if you would like to come on to Get Booked. Maybe you have a book that you're releasing, maybe you're a publisher or a PR specialist and you want to give some helpful hints and tips to all of our listeners out there, or maybe you're a book blogger yourself and you want to share the love. I'd like to hear from absolutely all of you. Thank you so much for listening to today's Get Booked. I'm Hazel Butterfield.