Get Booked – Jennifer Jackson, Managing Dyspepsia- A Self – Help Foodies

Hello everybody, I'm Hazel Butterfield and this is Get Booked, opening discussions and offering support via the incredible writing community out there. Come and join us and get involved, and if you want to catch up on previous shows, you can at womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. Now today we are talking about the book Managing Dyspepsia by Jennifer Jackson. Dyspepsia is a term which describes pain and sometimes other symptoms which come from your upper gut. Symptoms may include pain or discomfort in your upper tummy, acid reflux, bloating, belching, quickly feeling full after eating, nausea and vomiting. And even if you don't have dyspepsia, this book is excellent as a source of information on looking after our gut and attaining good gut health because it is Everything. Jenny, hi. Hi, Hazel. Thank you for joining us today at Women's Radio Station and Men's Radio Station. Thank you so much for having me on. Really excited to join you all. Well, um, do you know what? I'm— I was really excited when this book was recommended to me, uh, by a mutual friend because, um, I was just in the process of starting to write a book on gut health because it's everything. It's like our central nervous system, isn't it? It is, and I've learned so much over the last 8 years since I was diagnosed with functional dyspepsia and after the birth of my first daughter in late 2012. And I don't have any sort of scientific knowledge or background, but I kind of took it upon myself to go and research and find out how I'm going to heal myself naturally without all the medications that the doctors try and give you, which do have some purpose, but I knew that, you know, there's more to it. And so I've really learned about the importance of the gut and how to heal naturally. And I hope that's what I get across in, in the book, Managing Dyspepsia: A Self-Help Foodie's Guide. Well, you know what, people are so quick to go to medication and IBS is on the rise. It's all kind of these gut issues are all there. And I'm sure there's many people that say, well, it's just people creating more problems because 'Back in my day, there was nothing wrong with milk and this, that, and whatever.' But that's just not true. Basically, we are mass-producing food, which means it's not its most natural form. It's full of additives and junk and things that are supposed to keep us addicted to the food. I mean, places like McDonald's and Nando's are the key colors that are supposed to spark receptors to make us crave the food. And we're eating stuff that's not nourishing us. What we used to have maybe 100 years ago, even, even 30, 40 years ago, now it's just, it's nowhere near the same. I mean, if you think milk used to be a source of calcium because it, because the cows were eating grass, they're not now. Yeah, I mean, it's so hard to distinguish what's good for you and what's not good for you, and I try not to get too het up about it because you can end up being like, well, that's bad for me, that's bad for me, you know, It's important to keep positive when you're eating as well because sometimes, you know, it's actually that tension when you're eating. Sometimes if you're not relaxed while you're eating, that can all contribute to indigestion and what we now call functional dyspepsia. So, but I do try and focus, you know, when I add the food to my cart on the shopping online deliveries, you know, I try and think which ingredients are actually really good for me and my family and some Some foods will suit some people more than others as well. So it's not necessarily like one size fits all. So it's really been a journey for me figuring, figuring all that out. And as you say, some foods could be a bad trigger for some people, like milk, because of the way it's being made nowadays, I guess. But it's really about learning what works for you as well as some staple foods and things like bone broth I've really found can be really healing for the gut and I imagine that would probably suit everybody, but you know, there are some foods like milk which are good for some people, but some people react to it badly. Do you know what I found? Because I haven't got dyspepsia, but I do definitely have gut issues, and I do understand that whatever goes on in our gut, it helps our energy levels, it helps, you know, how we feel within ourselves. You know, it's got a lot of mental health implications. And with things like your non-exhaustive list of things to, well, encouraging you to eat and things to try and stay away from. It's not a case of, you don't have to make it hard work, you know, it's as simple as when you do your online shopping, have a look at what you normally get and take the bad ones out and add the other ones in. Yeah, and then you can't sort of have too much of the bad stuff if you haven't got it at home then. Yeah, you tend to cook with what you've got in your fridge, and if you're making sure that you've got the good things, you don't necessarily have to sit there and go, oh, I've got to do all these different meal plans. No, just make make sure you have available the foods that are better for you. Exactly. You mentioned meal plans. I mean, I have included in the Managing Dyspepsia book just a sample meal plan because sometimes my mind just goes blank and I just think, what am I going to cook this week? I don't know. What should I put in my online shopping list? Because I just can't think of what I'm going to cook next week. So it's quite good to have a guide of some sort of meal plan, but sometimes I just completely ignore it or forget it, but I have put it in there as a sample just to help, along with some recipes which are gut-friendly rather than just for dyspepsia, because, you know, hopefully you don't have to always forever be on a dyspepsia diet as such. Things like steaming food is really good, but, you know, even I now do have chocolate and cakes and things like that, and then I realize I need to rein it back a bit because I'm going to get myself in trouble if I get too carried away with it all. But I hope the book has a mix of things, not just, you know, the steaming food, but there's also blueberry muffins, for example, and some healthy, delicious desserts. Yeah, I've definitely been turning back the pages on those books. I was like, yeah, muffins, I'm very happy to try making muffins. We're all different and we all respond differently. I'm not very good at following recipes. I'm one of these people that just likes to come up with an idea and then just go with it. I do like my kitchen, but you know, like yourself, I've got a couple of children and sometimes you're busy and they're saying this, that, whatever, and you can't— you're homeschooling at the moment and all of a sudden you're, you know, I'm happy to cook up a 10-course meal the majority of the time, but sometimes I can't think beyond beans on toast and you just need a little bit of a bit of inspiration. What I tend to do is, say for example, with a lot of the things you put in the list, I then went on to Pinterest and put in those ingredients and saw these fantastic recipes, and I just save them for food ready for next time. Oh, brilliant! That sounds like a great idea. Yeah, well, we just need a bit of a— I mean, I sometimes I sit in bed thinking, what am I gonna wear for work tomorrow? And I know full well I've got 3 wardrobes full of clothes, you know, I'm not stuck book for choice, but I just can't get— we get a brain block. And quite often when we have a brain block, it's because of something to do with our gut, because we're feeling lethargic because we've eaten the wrong food, or we're feeling quite unwell because— I mean, something that I didn't realize, and I read this in your book, um, 70 to 80% of our body's immune cells are located in the gut. Yeah, I was really intrigued to find that out actually from one of the natural health practitioners that I interviewed, Linda Booth, who's a naturopath and founder of Just for Tommies. They create supplements and other things that help with your gut. And I love her tummy tea actually. It's sort of really nice high-quality tea bags which have a whole range of ingredients that are good for your tummy. But anyway, I was interviewing her for the book, actually, just to dig a bit deeper because she knows a lot more about these things than me. And she was saying, yeah, digestive health really is a key factor for maintaining a strong immune system because if your gut is inflamed, it can really wreak havoc with your health. And yeah, she was giving me those stats around 70 to 80% of the body's immune cells are located in the gut. So, you know, if you want a healthy and resilient immune system, you need the healthy gut first, and it's like your second brain. Oh yeah, completely. And, and you know, you can't function unless it's working properly. And I think, I mean, we all know that when we're feeling a little bit low, whether it's through illness or mental health, you know, the first thing we go for is something that's going to give us a quick high, which is chocolate, which is, you know, mass-produced, over-processed food, because they are filled with the aforementioned well, kind of drugs really, you know. It's all these kind of things that are— they are engineered. There are food engineers in these places putting stuff, putting ingredients in our food to make us crave it. Yeah, I'm just as guilty as anybody else of having those kind of foods. Oh yeah, I mean, we all know if we've got a bit of a hangover or something like that, the first thing we're going to want to go to is you know, the overprocessed foods, because then you feel worse again straight afterwards. And you can either top it up and give what your body is craving again, like a drug addiction, or, you know, you try and— the first thing you reach for in the morning is not a salad. Yeah, but it's— I mean, it's interesting. And I think, although you said you're not a medical health professional, no, you're somebody that's gone through it and actually decided to write a book to try and help people rather than somebody who knows about a particular disorder. You're living it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I really felt compelled during, you know, I've been on maternity leave the last year and it's been an 8-year journey for me really learning about dyspepsia and how to manage it naturally. It's my first, first book actually, which I've self-published on Amazon about my experiences. And I really just felt compelled, you know, with lockdown and sort of me trying to cook healthily during my maternity leave as well for the family, I wanted to put something together that firstly I wanted to put all the information for myself together in a sort of guide and the recipes so that I could have them to hand when I want to cook something. And then I thought I became more and more aware that quite a few relatives and friends of mine have been experiencing similar issues, dyspepsia, some of them don't even realize it's dyspepsia, they sort of Some people think they've been having heart problems and things like that, and it's turned out to just be this. And so I thought, well, if I put together this guide, then a lot of people might be able to learn from what I've gone through, and maybe if they have been taking medication that they may not actually need, it might actually be causing more harm than good, I found out. You know, maybe they can get some tips that might help them. You know, some of my experiences might be similar to theirs, some might be a bit different, but Hopefully, you know, the recipes are useful because they're gut-friendly anyway. And all these amazing therapists I've been speaking to, and some of which I've, you know, actually had treatments from, you know, it's all their really useful insights in here. So I thought, well, lots of people could hopefully benefit from that. And what is quite interesting, and what I must say to all of our listeners, is this is not an overwhelming book. You can read it in a few hours. It really is that easy to get through. It's kind of bite-sized and it's structured really well that you kind of, you give the key information, don't go on unnecessarily so that that information can stick with people rather than, you know, too much information and it can start going over our heads. And I, I was quite, I was surprised. I mean, I thought I knew about gut issues, but I did definitely learn quite a bit more from Managing Dyspepsia. I mean, I myself, I've had— I used to go backpacking, and there's a lot of oily food in Southeast Asia and places like that. And the amount— how ill I was in some of these places. And, um, well, it got to a stage in the end that like every meal was about 60 baht or something, and they'd just say, go in the kitchen, cook your own food, and just class it as a meal, and we'll charge you 60 baht. And it's like, yeah, brilliant. You've got things like buscopan. I mean, it's quite obvious, you know. I said to my doctor, I said, I never 'If I eat oily food, I get very ill and it's like crippling pain.' He goes, 'Well, don't eat oily food.' I'm like, 'Great, thanks. That's really helpful.' And my only option is to either take tablets every day or to have Buscopan every time I think my stomach's going to flare up. And you just think, that's not an answer. It's not really good. Yeah, it feels like not such a great way of living, really, that you have to take pills just to eat something you like. And I mean, the reason I actually called the book A self-help foodies guide. It's because, but you know, for really all my adult life at least, I've always loved food from all around the world, like you. You know, I like, I've loved traveling and go, you know, trying out different food and not really, you know, I'm a bit adventurous with food. Oh, yes, really. And so when the doctor first diagnosed my dyspepsia and told me, you know, mainly probably you're just gonna have to eat soup and cut out a lot of food and drink I love, I thought, oh my goodness, how am I gonna do that? Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not a massive drinker. You know, that wasn't such a big blow that I wouldn't be able to have so much alcohol, but chocolate and, you know, just chorizo sausage and things like that, I just thought, oh my goodness, am I going to never be able to eat all these things I like? Luckily, I have come a long way and I can eat most of that now. Well, I think once we do look after our gut, you can then go back to, you know, everything in moderation. It's just understanding, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's understanding what your triggers and how, you know, maybe not overdoing it on certain foods because the reason they cause you pain in the first place is because they're not that good for you. It's not just there's something wrong with you in the first place. And it's not necessarily food that actually caused the issue in the first place. I mean, I learned a few things about over the last 8 years. I've sort of come to different conclusions to what actually caused this in the first place and the fact that it happened after having my first child, a C-section, and various things were going on. And the first therapist I actually spoke to and saw was Albert Duttoit. He's an advanced clinical and sports massage therapist. Now you might be surprised, why, what's massage got to do with all this? Well, he basically explained a lot of women that he treats actually who have this issue have actually had some sort of abdominal surgery or a C-section. And because that can actually— surgery can actually interrupt something in your muscles, basically, that affects how the food gets digested and things. So, and then it could be the, the stress around the experience I had as well, the trauma, the traumatic hospital experience I had. And all that combined with probably the painkillers that I— the strong painkillers that I had and various things. So, so it's— it can be more than one thing that triggers it. But with me, it seems to have happened all at once at that point. And then since then, food would trigger it because, because of how the acid moves up the gut and things like that. I also found— well, that's what's happening though, isn't it? That's what— food triggers it because that's what's going into your gut regardless of what caused the initial issue. And it's interesting, I mean, the bit that you said about, um, in the book where you're talking about alternative therapies, and I found this again quite intriguing because when I get discomfort and I know that I've eaten something wrong, or possibly I ate too quickly while I was sitting at my desk, and we were all, you know, guilty of doing this, I know full well that I don't like taking tablets. I mean, even if I've got a headache, I don't take ibuprofen. I'm just not a fan of it. But I know a minimum of 15 minutes of yoga and I'll be fine because of the whole flow process. And without going into too much detail, it gets everything moving. Yeah, yeah. And that's similar to how massage works because, you know, you're with yoga and Pilates and things like that, you're, you're effectively doing that for yourself. And having some massage therapy can sort of be a good start, and then they usually set you off with exercises and things like physiotherapy. Physiotherapists to do. So, so that's your— then your responsibility to keep that going. So yeah, it's been really interesting to learn all about that. And then also acupuncture can have a role as well. In Chinese medicine, they have the opinion that their perspective is the weakened spleen energies can make the digestive system sluggish. So that can lead to abdominal discomfort, feeling tired, heavy sensation in the body. So acupuncture can help by restoring balance to the organs. And it's been really interesting learning all about that as well. Well, knowledge is power though, isn't it, Jenny? Mm, yeah, definitely. I mean, and I think there's probably a lot more to learn, and hopefully I'll be adding to this in the future as well as I learn more. Well, since you've self-published, how have you found the response to your book? Well, I found a lot of people— I mean, I've been on some Facebook groups where people are suffering from functional dyspepsia. There's been, you know, thousands of people on these groups, and they were like, oh, what can I do? What can I eat? And when I mentioned that I've put this book together, they've been really sort of interested to find out more. A lot of friends and relatives have been saying that, you know, they're really interested to find out more about it, because sometimes, you know, when I try and explain over the phone or something, and I can't always remember all the details. So the easiest thing to say is, you know, have a look at the book, or also I set up a Facebook page where I share tips, and it's called @foodiesmanagingdyspepsia, and also Instagram by the same name. So I share some tips and things because, you know, sometimes information comes up in the news, or I share tips from different people. And one of the people I share tips from is Rachel Downe, who's the founder of Boil and Broth. Um, oh right, yeah, I read about her. Bone broths. Yeah, so she's, um, I interviewed her as well, but also she's, she's got a good Facebook, um, page where she shares a lot of tips about gut health. Um, and so I, I share a lot of her stuff on there as well, as well as, um, bits from my book, recipes, um, as I cook. I mean, I'm we all have to eat, so whenever I cook something that I think people might be interested in, I'll take a photo and share some of the tips around that. So yeah, I think people have been quite receptive to the book. And do you know what, you said a bit earlier that you've been on maternity leave and you've also, I suppose, you've been going through a stage where you're quite busy. Yeah. So have you found that that's affected your dyspepsia, or has it given you more time at home to be able to keep on top of it? Yeah, I do have to be careful of not overdoing things too much, but I found, you know, writing the book has been really therapeutic for me because I was putting information down that was in my head or that's come from other people with their insights. So it's been really, really good bringing that all together. Having the chance during lockdown as well, you know, not going out and about as much means I've actually luckily had the time to actually put this together and spend the time to cook more as well and think about what I'm cooking a lot more. I've tried some new recipes because I've got Middle Eastern background, and so my mum over the phone was giving me some recipes over the phone that I've always wanted to cook things like dolma and biryani, and I just never really got around to it. And you kind of need a free weekend to just sort of make sure you've got all the ingredients and— yeah, together. It wasn't actually that hard in the end, and I thought, oh wow, I could, I could do this anytime. But I just, I've never really put the time in before, and I'm really glad I managed to have a chance to do that thanks to lockdown. Do you know what I found? I'm a huge fan of a positive attribution, and there's been so many crazy and scary elements of lockdown, but people people have had the time to try things that they haven't had time to before and suddenly go, ah, actually, I thought this would be an extremely long learning process. No, managed to do something in half an hour and I've been putting it off for 3 years. Yeah. And, uh, and that's very good for some people. The only— I feel incredibly sorry for those who, like yourself, have had children during lockdown, or just a friend of mine, she's got a 2.5-year-old, and I was like, she's not going to go to playgroups, you're not getting to see your NCT friends, which means that they're, they're progressing fantastically in other ways, but they're not having that social element. And you just say, I know, it's just you forget about all the knock-on effects. And, you know, I remember I mean, I had my kids some time ago now, but you know, you sit there and you suddenly over coffee or a glass of Prosecco, you're saying, right, their poo is this color. How's it been for you? Or this has happened. Or, you know, my partner's been saying this, or this has been happening to my body, and everybody just talks about it instead of you having to actually write it down on a Facebook page or something like that. And it's just, you can sort these issues out in about 2 and a half minutes by finding out that you're not the only one or somebody offering you some advice. And you're not getting those opportunities, and I just think it must be very hard. Maybe you don't know the alternative. Yeah, well, I mean, I think I do miss having that face-to-face interaction with groups of friends and things like that where you can just, you know, talk about everything. And I guess there's been more reliance on online and being glued to the phone and things like that. But yeah, hopefully some positive things have come out and, as you say, having the time to cook and things like that. Although my little one's getting a bit more wriggly now, so I might have to create some 15-minute meals now. I'm sure. But it's not— I mean, I've been trying to get my kids to actually do a little bit more cooking as well. I've got two boys, they're constantly starving. So, you know, typical parenting, I'm just like, if you're really hungry, why don't you find a recipe and start cooking yourself? We want you to do it. Well, I'll do it in an hour, or you can eat quickly and make it yourself. Mummy's doing home economics with you. This is your lesson, and here is Pinterest. But yeah, again, you're finding, you're finding different ways to kind of try and Entertain them and fit— I hate the word new normal, but it is, it is a new normal. Can we come up with a new term? Oh, let's just get back to normal soon, please. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is that too. Have you got more books on the cards as well? Pardon? Have you got another book that you're thinking of doing? Oh, sorry, yeah, well, first of all, I will— I am thinking of updating this in a probably in about a year's time because already more and more things have come into my head and I'm learning more things and some sketches from therapists as well they want to add. So that's one thing and I think, you know, as I go back to work soon, I'm going to be really wanting to be able to cook meals a lot more quickly and, you know, think of things to cook that are healthy around a busy lifestyle. So that could be another thing. I haven't got a definite definite next book yet, but there's also things I want to try with my daughter as well. She's 8 now and she loves writing, and she's also very interested in food. So yeah, we'll see. It's quite open at the moment, but I think I would like to work on her— work with her on something as well. I think it would be nice to get kids involved because they're becoming so much more aware of mental health and mental well-being, and to actually engage with them on it, I think would be fantastic because I'm sure, you know, there are certain kids of certain ages that would look at adults' recipe books and go, "I'm not having that, it's green." But, you know, there's different ways of kind of engaging if you actually get them to be a part of the process. Yeah, and actually my daughter does have an afternoon every Friday which is meant to be dedicated to wellbeing with her school. And a lot of the time we end up opting for the cooking activities. So I think we cooked crumpet pizzas one time. Oh wow. Last Friday we made a cake for my baby daughter's first birthday. So yeah, we end up doing a lot of cooking in the morning and afternoon. Because you're obviously for good gut health, a lot of food needs— fermented foods are fantastic for good gut health. Have you seen that they've started doing sourdough crumpets? Oh yeah, yes, I think they're a really good idea actually, and I am a big fan of sourdough breads and sourdough crumpets and all those, definitely. Rather interestingly, I think you live quite close to me, but there was somebody had put something up on the, you know, the online platform Nextdoor. Oh yeah, yeah. So basically a guy had said, I am bored and I've been making a sourdough starter I've been doing it for the last few weeks and I've made loads of it because I had nothing else to do. Here is my address, come and pick up a jar from outside if you want to do it, if you want to make your own sourdough. And he'd just done it just to kind of be a bit community spirited, and I thought that was brilliant. That's lovely. Yeah, I've seen quite a few things like that on the Nextdoor. It's really, really interesting seeing what's been happening. Yeah, yes, as long as you just ignore all the kind of rants. Oh yeah, don't start me on those. So what we do here on Get Booked, every week that we have a guest, we like to ask for 3 of their top wellbeing tips. It can be on anything, whether it's to do with dyspepsia, whether it's to do with reading, you know, it can be anything. What would be your 3 top tips for good mental wellbeing? Okay, so I think the first thing generally is to have a really good support system. It might seem hard at the moment in many ways. We have to rely on our household members for real-life face-to-face interactions. But I would say my support system would be friends and family, and also my faith, and therapists who can maybe be able to help when doctors don't know the answer to everything. Also, so yeah, having a good support system. Second thing is sort of thinking about self-help. How can you help yourself? Stay strong and resilient. So I think food is part of that, your food choices, fresh air, and staying healthy, and just taking time to meditate and, you know, identify what makes you calm and happy and make time for it. And the third thing is to be kind to each other and help each other, you know, even if you might get annoyed about people not agreeing with you, if you have different opinions, It's so easy to get down when you're stuck indoors and sick of the same four walls, but, you know, if you just remember to always be kind and be understanding, then you'll— I think you'll find you will actually feel better yourself. I think they're brilliant, and the whole— the third one, you're just being kind. Try and think outside the box, try and understand what somebody else might be going through. I've seen it so much out and about now that people are quick to shout at passersby in the street, whether they came too close or there was this, that, whatever, you know, people just really, you know, they're not seeing anybody, so when they do, they're kind of taking their anger and frustrations out on people. But also when that happens, just think, you know what, you don't know what they've just gone through. You don't know if they've just lost somebody, whether they're going through a horrific time in this lockdown, or, you know, just sometimes just let people be, leave them to it. You don't need to respond, or, you know, try and give out what you want back. If you're, if you're smiling and you're looking for people smiling, you'll spot those people. If you're frowning and you're kind of looking for people who might be frowning back at you, that's all you'll see. Yeah, exactly. I think just, you know, be forgiving and understanding in these situations and Yeah, try and be kind when you can. Yeah, completely. I mean, it's so hard at the moment because everybody's out walking, so the streets are actually quite full. Yeah. And it's just interesting seeing people trying to get past. Oh, it's awkward, isn't it? Yeah, and you've got to be mindful that some people aren't as bothered as others, but there are people with certain vulnerabilities that we might not be able to see. It's not always age-dependent, it's not always something that's visible. And, you know, we might be a little bit more mindful of really giving somebody quite a lot of space to get past if they look more visibly— like, maybe if it's somebody who's, um, you know, a little bit older or something like that. But we've got to remember that, you know, it's hard for all of us because, you know, sometimes— I know there's certain routes around where I'm walking at the moment with the dog, and it's packed. You would think it was like, you know, the height of summer. Yeah, yeah, well, it's the only thing people do. I mean, it's quite good people are getting fresh air and things like that, but I think, yeah, I always try and, um, try and make space. And, you know, when I'm out walking with my family, we, we try and go single file if there's people coming up ahead, um, we try and make a lot of space regardless of, you know, who they are. It's— I think it's just the way we've got to be at the moment and constantly be mindful of that. Yeah, I mean, the thing is I think most people are trying to go single file, but then you have like all of a sudden out of nowhere the path gets really small and suddenly you go, 'Oh no, I wasn't in the way.' But you know what, you know, if you do something a little bit daft and you didn't think it through, just say, 'Oh, sorry, completely away with the fairies, I apologise.' Most of the time people are okay with it, but just, you know, try and be a little bit more mindful. Um, there's a lot going on in the world at the moment. Um, and another question I have for you: is there anybody out there at the moment in the public eye that you think is smashing it out of the park? They are just a good example of how to be. Um, well, Joe Wicks springs to mind, um, the, the Body Coach. I think, I think he's just really great. He's really helped the nation throughout the lockdowns with his fitness workouts. Um, but for me more so, I actually was lucky enough to to get his 30 Minute Meals cookbook as a present from my workplace, actually, for Christmas. And I was looking at it and I was like, I really love this. I've already tried a few. They're easy and quick. And, you know, he's not a chef, so he's just, you know, in a way, a normal person. And there's some really good recipes in there. And I think he's really trying to get people to be interested in healthy and delicious and nutritious food, similar to what I'm trying to do with my book. I've tried his duck and chicken recipe already and the haddock with orzo and I just think healthy eating is more important now than ever and the fact that he's really helping to motivate kids and families and everyone really with his healthy approach to life, so that's someone I think I really admire at the moment. He's making it very easy and attainable and I think that's the key, isn't it? In the past people have thought that, you know, cooking is ridiculously hard. I mean, there's, there's so much that we can't do with our children at the moment, and they're not getting certain life lessons that they would normally get from being out playing with their friends and possibly getting in trouble, or, you know, just the usual interactions from walking to school with friends and whatnot. So what I'm trying to do again is trying to take away the myth of how hard certain things can be. You know, I gave my son a drill and said, right, if you want to change your room and you want to put this in the wall, look on YouTube and try and figure out how to do it. And it is a case of just kind of demystifying how hard we think things can be. Yeah, exactly. And I'm, you know, I'm not a chef, and certainly desserts, I'm not really a, um, you know, a pro baker or anything like that. Um, but I think certain things, you know, you can get your head around. You don't have to be perfect at it. In no way am I a perfect cook. So I think that's why I really wanted to put this guide together for myself and other people so that we actually realize it can actually be achievable. And fitness itself, you know, I'm not particularly— I've done a bit of yoga and a bit of Pilates, but I I don't see myself as being a fitness guru, you know, I'm not one of those people who goes out jogging every day or anything like that, but what I can manage is, you know, half an hour walk or an hour's walk. So I think it's all about just reaching for what you can do and maybe just pushing yourself a little bit more than that. Yeah, well, we are all completely different. What works for one person isn't necessarily going to be for the other, but the more we read, the more we can experience what we can find out about other people doing, and we can choose what is going to work for for us. Yeah, exactly. Now, you've been— we're almost a year into on and off lockdowns at the moment, and reading has been going through the charts because it's something where it's something cheap for people to do. It's not in front of the screen unless they're doing it on a Kindle, and it's experiencing somebody else's life. It's finding out about other people's perspectives. It's just, it's entertainment, escape, you name it. Are you a big reader? I am, I do love reading. I read a lot to my daughter. I'm reading her Heidi at the moment. Oh, cool. She reads to me, and obviously I've got a lot of children's books now that I'm reading to, you know, even nursery rhyme level to my newer baby who's 1 now. I like to read quite light-hearted books. Sometimes as well, because sometimes I just think, you know, before I go to sleep, I don't want to read something really serious. So I really like the Sophie Kinsella books. The latest one I'm reading is Surprise Me. Okay. So I just think sometimes I want to just laugh and, you know, not necessarily read something heavy going. But yeah, I sort of mix it up a bit. I read a lot online as well. A lot of articles and things. Right, yeah. I mean, I have to mix it up a little bit. There's a lot of books, especially for this show, that have a— we go through mental health themes, but also, you know, a book, a fictional book, can have so many mental health themes, whether it's based on a particular issue or they've written it because it's something that the author has gone through themselves. But also, it's the whole escape element, you know, we don't want to necessarily, as you say, we want to have a laugh. I mean, I quite often ask for suggestions on, on Twitter for just ridiculously funny books. I am that person that sits around a swimming pool on holiday and I'm giggling to myself, and I do absolutely love it. And I've got to mix it up, so I kind of do something funny, something that's educational, and, you know, and I have to keep on switching it up, otherwise we can drive ourselves crazy sometimes. Yeah, I know. I started reading a sleep guide, you know, a sleep training guide for my baby, and then I thought, okay, I've had enough of this one now. I'll go back to writing my guide and breastfeeding. Fair enough. I did actually, um, I'm doing an online baby shower for a friend of mine who's about to give birth in about 5 or 6 weeks. Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah, well, we decided to do it slightly differently. There's people all over the world that are going to be doing this Zoom call, so I sent them out and, um, we've put a WhatsApp group together and I said, right, can you all send, um, a brand new copy of your favourite book when you were a child as a baby shower present? So that basically the person whose baby shower it is, she will start off her book collection of all of her closest friends' favourite books as a child. Amazing! Yeah, it's quite cool, isn't it? It's a nice way of kind of building up a book collection when you're a first-time mother. Wow, yeah, I love it. I mean, we've got quite a few from my first child, but yeah, I think that's a fantastic, fantastic idea. It's personal as well, isn't it? Yeah, really heartwarming. Well, we'll all start reminiscing. I mean, I still don't know which book to choose because I've got to kind of wait a little bit for everybody else's to come in, so so that I don't duplicate it, but what would be your favourite childhood book? Oh, I think from when I was a bit older, not as nursery rhyme level, but one of mine I actually kept is The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe from— it's a really crumpled book I've got now, and I've just handed it to my 8-year-old daughter because she actually loves lions. Why not? She's been watching documentaries about them and things like that, and 'Have I told you about the Lion Witch and the Wardrobe? Do you know about it all?' Because she loves The Lion King and all that. 'Do you know Aslan?' And she was like, 'No, who's Aslan?' So I was telling her and she was like, 'Oh wow, can I read it?' So yeah, I've just given her my old copy of that one. I would say that's one of them. Secret Garden as well. There's quite a few, but yeah, those ones off the top of my head. See, I met— we're huge readers in our family. We're, you know, we'd go out for a meal somewhere, we'd all just sit there and kind of read a book. And recently my eldest has turned 14, so now he's like, "I'm not reading." So he's stopped reading. And my other one, he still reads a little bit, but it's kind of— they kind of lose it for a little bit when they get a bit older, and then hopefully they can kind of go back to it again. But, um, yeah. So I miss not being able to go into Waterstones or any of the— there's some lovely bookshops here in Richmond where there is, it's like a nice little experience. I love going into bookshops, but I— that's one thing that I miss as well with the lockdown, you know, just, just sauntering around these shops and getting excited about books. It's all very well that we're in it, we're very lucky that we can get everything online, but it's not the same, is it? Not the same, no. The smell of the books in the bookshop and the library as well. You know, I'd really like to take my little one to the library as well. Well, hopefully it will happen. It will, it will. I like to point— people forget that, you know, with libraries it is completely free. You don't— reading is something that you can do at none or very little cost, and we need to use our libraries, otherwise they'll get taken away from us. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I always— I used to go a lot when I was younger and, you know, all through my teens, and I think I stopped going for a long time, and then I started taking my daughter there occasionally. I think mainly because there's so much more things to do these days than when I was younger, and so you have to actually sort of make the time for it, but I really enjoyed those few times that I did take her. And I, yeah, I really want to go back to doing all that. Well, that's where they used to have all the free kind of singing hands and baby clubs and things like that. And again, people are missing out. Yeah, bring back normality. I know. I'm just wondering, when was this book actually released? Just at the beginning of January, actually. It was roughly the 5th of January, and so it's very new. It's my first book that I self-published, so it's all very exciting. And you didn't get to— did you do like a virtual book tour or anything like that? I didn't do a virtual book tour. I've just been promoting it on my Instagram and Facebook, the Facebook pages that I created, the @foodies Managing— Foodies Managing Dyspepsia. And there's— Oh, you disappeared a little bit then. Oh, so it comes in paperback and also as a Kindle edition on Amazon, and I've been promoting it on my Facebook and Instagram pages as well, the @foodiesmanagingdyspepsia. So, and do you have a website? It's just the Amazon site. So the link that's on those Facebook and Instagram pages, so it's just, you can search for it on Amazon, but there isn't a dedicated website apart from the Facebook and Instagram pages. Well, to all of our listeners that are wanting it to be nice and easy, we like life to be easy, I will put a link up on my Twitter and on Women's Radio Station and Men's Radio Station's Twitter, just so we can make it so easy, just one click away from getting hold of the book. Right. Um, thank you very much. No, you're very welcome. Um, now I was just wondering, before you decided to write this book, where, where did you go to for your gut health information? What— you, you obviously wrote this book because I'd not even heard of dyspepsia before. Um, what were you doing beforehand? And so I basically learned from other people. I, I'm the sort of person who likes to ask people things and to talk about things. And so in terms of gut health, I mentioned earlier Linda Booth, the founder of Just for Tummies, and there's a, there's a group that she has actually on, on Facebook as well. So social media basically is one way. Obviously you have to be careful about what you listen listen to and what you don't listen to and sift through the information. The key people, I would say, are the therapists I've got to know. So Albert Duttoit, who is the advanced clinical and sports massage therapist, and Mandeep Nandra, who's the acupuncturist and osteopath, and Rachel Down, who's the founder of Boil and Broth, because I, I think I must have found out online or from told family members that broth is really good for you, for your gut, and so I now follow her pages to see her latest tips, and there's some good blogs on her website as well, and so does Linda Booth on Just for Tummies as well. So I just research online, speak to these people, and just keep on learning basically. Yeah, and that is the thing, because information changes all the time, and the more things are progressing all the time, and so it becomes easier. There's more information out there, and it's always good to just kind of revitalise whatever information we do have. I do know that there are a lot of people that listen to this show who are budding writers themselves, and they're wanting to get published, and you self-published this book. Could you tell us a little bit about that process? Yeah, so I've had all these ideas in my head for the last few years, but my second cousin who lives in Florida actually self-published some memoirs about her special needs daughter who was born very prematurely, and she wrote a lovely book about her micro-preemie baby called Alex, which she self-published on Amazon, and she's since gone to publish algebra books as well. So, I was really inspired by her and she actually encouraged me to self-publish. She knows I like writing and she knows I've got lots of ideas of things I want to get across. And, to be honest, I hadn't actually heard about self-publishing. I didn't even realize it was a thing until she told me about it. And I didn't realize how, well, how easy it was, but parts of it aren't actually as easy as I hope. Writing is, you know, the writing part was as you'd expect, you put your words down and, you know, that's kind of, you know what to expect there because you're doing the writing, but the next step was actually formatting it for the Amazon platform and you have to sort of tailor it a bit for the paperback differently from the eBook version. So, you know, this is my first book, so it was really a learning experience. There are quite a few guides on Amazon as to how to do it, but it's a little bit of a self-taught process basically, and I found that was actually a bit more time-consuming, but you can get through it, and there are Facebook groups again where you can ask other people for their tips and advice on things. So, yeah, I got there, I got there eventually with that, and then, you know, then preview it to see what it looks like. And you might have formatted it all nicely in your Word document, but when you actually upload it, it doesn't necessarily look like how you had it. So, so that was a lot of fun and games. So how long from start to finish? And I mean, once you know you finished your book and you go, right, I'm gonna self-publish it, how long does it take from going, right, I need to self-publish, to it being ready and good to go and people can physically hold the book in their hand? I mean, I think it can be quite quick. Obviously, I've been juggling looking after the kids and, you know, during the day and things like that, so a lot of the time I was trying to do this in the evenings or late at night, you know, a few hours here and there. It was probably about 4 months from when I first started really putting it together, and then The actual formatting, probably about a few weeks. I reckon it's possible to even do it in a few days if you've got all day and you're fully focused on it, but I was just sort of trying to juggle it with other things. So, yeah, I mean, I'd say definitely within 6 months for something like this, but, you know, you could probably do it in a few weeks if you put your mind to it. Oh, wow, okay. Did you consider going to a publisher, or did you always know you wanted to self-publish? I just thought I'd go down the self-publish route and try it, really. It's a bit of a trial for me, really, rather than anything else. I thought, oh, maybe I could go to a publisher, but I just thought, well, why not just go down this self-publish route and then see what happens? Was it expensive, or—? No, it doesn't actually cost anything apart from— so if you actually want to order it, so to order it for myself, I have to— Amazon deducts the printing fee and color printing is more expensive, but I just thought it's worth it because I really want to show the colors of the food and things like that. I didn't want it to be boring in black and white, so— not that it would necessarily be boring in black and white, but I just— for this particular type of book, I thought I wanted to go for color, so it doesn't actually cost anything to actually publish it as such, but you then have to pay if you want to promote it and things like that. Ah, right, okay, so you've predominantly kept that in-house, so to say. Yeah, I mean, you can get people to design your cover and things like that. I just took a photo of one of the dishes, and I did all the photography for the book as well, and Amazon does have some templates as well that you can use. So, if you sort of semi-know what you're doing with all that, then you don't really have to pay anyone to do it, but I think some people do pay people to put it all together for them. There's so many different options out there at the moment. I just, I know that there's a lot of people who, sometimes people struggle to get a publisher, but also they want to self-publish publish because they want to be completely in charge of what happens, even if it is a little bit more work. Hmm. It's keeping the control of what happens and who does what. And there are many people who listen that, you know, they quite often ask me these questions, and it's nice to hear from somebody who's actually done it, and it's the first time they've done it as well. And It'd be interesting to see whether you have people saying, "Um, can we publish your book next time, please?" Because once you get one out there, sometimes it's, uh, you either find it easier to get published or you have publishers falling over themselves saying, "Excuse me." Well, that would be amazing if they do. But, um, yeah, I just, I think for me it was just sort of just getting it out there. I had sort of, I thought, you know, I want to definitely do this by the end of my maternity leave, otherwise I might not get a chance. So I just thought I'll just go down this route. But yeah, I mean, it would be amazing if a publisher wants to publish my next one. That'd be amazing. But yeah, I just thought, go down this route for this one. I love it how you decided that, you know, during the lockdown and with a brand new baby, you thought, oh, well, there you go, I've got time to get a book out. It's weird, isn't it? I mean, to be honest, I didn't know if I was going to have the time. I think it was because of the nature of the book, because I wanted the recipes put together for myself anyway. Half of it, I wanted, you know, the writing of it, I wanted to do it anyway. And, you know, in between feeding and things like that, I'd just be sort of jotting things down on my phone and putting, getting it all together. And then in the evenings, just polishing it. And then, yeah, the designing and the layout of everything, that's what kind of, there were moments where I was like, oh my goodness, what am I doing? Why am I spending my nights doing this? But I think because I felt so compelled about it, because it's the useful information that I was getting across, I felt like I really, really want to do this. I guess it was probably quite cathartic, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's not that having a baby and lockdown, you end up with loads of time, to be honest. It's actually been really busy even just being at home because in between changing and nappy changing and feeding and just keeping things going in the house. But yeah, somehow I managed to find time to put this together. Well, ironically, probably having something for yourself kind of gave you that fire in your belly. And that sounds ridiculous for somebody who's got dyspepsia, but I mean, giving you, you know, it's something for yourself as well. And it's probably quite good for your mental health and mental well-being to have something else to focus on, which the more focus we have, the more we can get done. I mean, I know that if I've got one task in a day, I'll probably get to 9 o'clock at night and finally get around to it. If I've got 30 tasks, I'm done by 10 AM or 9 AM or whatnot. Yeah, I think it's having that purpose as well. Not that having a baby isn't a purpose in itself, but just something else. I just thought it's a benefit for my family as well to have this. And to have this guide and to really propel us to cook healthy and eat healthy. And yeah, I do have to thank my husband as well for giving me the time to do this because there are times where he's been looking after the kids while I work on it, but hopefully it's been worth it. Yeah, but that was on my list of things to ask. Yes, was it? I assume— has he been picking up any flak or is he very proud of what you've Yeah, he's been really supportive actually, and he's been working from home as well during the day, but then sometimes on the weekends I've had a chance to spend a few hours on the book, which has been really— I've been really grateful for that as well. I guess as well, people have been at home a bit more as well, so they can— I think it's going to be interesting. What people are going to realize about when they're not commuting, just how much more time they're getting. I mean, personally, I used to like the commuting because it meant that I got to read, so I'm missing that. But there are so many other people who are just thinking, well, all this time that I could be at home and actually have an hour extra with my children or help out with this, or, you know, walk the dog. Yeah, it's definitely been great from that perspective. Perspective. Wow. Well, um, yeah, I think it's a fantastic book. And this is a bit of a reminder to everybody, you can get onto Amazon and just search up Jennifer Jackson, Managing Dyspepsia: A Self-Help Foodies Guide. And there's lots of hints and tips in there. And as I mentioned at the beginning of our chat, um, it's broken down quite easily. It is not a ridiculously huge book where you feel like you need a PhD just to understand it. It's written quite simply, quite lovely, with some really nice recipes. Nothing where you kind of think you need to completely overhaul your kitchen to get through it. Um, and you've, you've just kind of structured it so nicely and so easily. And even for those of you listening who, who do not have dyspepsia, just read about your gut health, read Managing Dyspepsia, and about the elements of good gut health. And I'm sure there'll be many of you a bit surprised, but actually there'll be that light bulb moment where you realize, that's why I've not been feeling great. Yes, when I'm nourishing my gut, I feel better when I do this, that, whatever. And in, in your book as well, where you have the list of things to— of the ingredients to go towards and ingredients to stay away from, just implementing small changes will make quite a bit of a difference, won't it? Absolutely, and it's sort of making it, tweaking it to suit your lifestyle and your preferences as well. And are you going to be going back to work soon? Yes, I'm actually due to go back next month. Oh wow, and what's your line of work? What do you do? I actually work late, I'm a content editor at Haymarket Media Group in Twickenham. Ah, right, yes. So I guess that's quite helpful when writing a book, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. Writing's in my blood. Yeah, so it's helpful to have those at Haymarket where they're full of information as well. And yeah, I mean, I think that's where we have a mutual connection, isn't it? Yes. Yes, we have a good friend who connected us, so that was lovely. Yeah, well, because she knows— I mean, she knows I'm a huge foodie, but I'm very particular about my food. I like to cook all the time, and I'm a bit of a control freak because I've had issues in the past. I know there's certain food that I can't touch, so I always used to try and teach myself to be a good cook so that people would allow me to do the cooking. All the time, which means that I can be careful, you know, not having the parts of food that just don't make me feel that good. So I think she suddenly went, ah, yes, I know, I've got the exact person for you. Oh, amazing. We appreciate it. Yeah. Well, do you know what? I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting to you, and I encourage all of our listeners to go and get Managing Dyspepsia: A Self-Help Foodie's Guide by Jennifer Jackson. And thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Hazel, it's been a pleasure. And you are very welcome. And let me know when you release the either updated version or maybe Managing Dyspepsia 2. Maybe there's going to be a trilogy. Maybe. Thank you very much, and thank you for listening to Women's and Men's Radio Station. Thank you so much. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and you have been listening to Get Booked for Women's Radio Station and Men's Radio Station. You can catch me here every day of the week at 5 AM and 5 PM for Women's, and every Tuesday at 4 PM for Men's Radio Station. And you can also catch up on previous shows at womensradiostation.com/shows/get-booked. Books, and it's up on our SoundCloud. Many of my book reviews go up onto my website at hazelbutterfield.com where I have a book blog, and you can follow me on @nuttybutty on Twitter where I post lots of links and helpful bits and tips for all you writing and reading fans out there. Please feel free to send me your book recommendations and Maybe you want to ask to come onto the show for a bit of a chat. Maybe you're releasing your own book or just want to say hi. Why not? Anyway, thanks for listening and enjoy the rest of your day. If you would like to sponsor Get Booked, please do get in touch with us via our website at womensradiostation.com, or you can email us directly at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Or contact me via my website hazelbutterfield.com. I hope you're all well and have enjoyed today's Get Booked.