Get Booked With Hazel Butterfield – Liz Gilbert Bedia, Arthur Wants A Balloon

Are you feeling anxious? Online Therapy 24/7 is here to help. We offer confidential support from the comfort of your own sofa. Our highly qualified therapists are experienced in a full range of daily challenges. You'll be in safe and trusted hands. Don't suffer alone. Change your life by calling us on 0207 553 5080 and check out our website: onlinetherapy247.com. Hello, I'm Hazel Butterfield and this is Get Booked. For those of you that aren't regular listeners, this show talks about books, books and more books. We love talking to authors about their new releases and the process of writing, going into detail about the topics covered, the mental health and well-being elements, publishing and writing tips, and giving you the extra special insight into a different book each week. And on today's show, I'm going to be welcoming Elizabeth Gilbert Bedea and predominantly talking about her book Arthur Wants a Balloon, a sweet but increasingly common and relevant story of the pressure parents can be under when dealing with depression or dealing with a partner's mental health issues. Mental health is a complex issue for adults, let alone children, to understand, and this is what Arthur Wants a Balloon embraces Liz, thank you for joining me. Thanks so much for having me, Hazel, on your show today. Well, you're patching in all the way from Iowa, so it's nice and early there for you, isn't it? It is, it is. It is 6 AM here, but we're all good. Well, I do appreciate it. I hope you're as loaded up with espresso as I am. I, I am. I'm drinking some water right now. We're getting it, getting it going. It's all good, getting the day going. I know you've got a couple couple of rather large dogs as well sitting on the other side of your door. I've, um, I've also taken my dog out for a huge walk today, so hopefully she'll stay asleep. That's always the hope after the walks. Yes, yeah, it is. Yeah, uh, but she's lazy at the best of times, so I think it should be good. Uh, so here today we are going to talk about Arthur Wants a Balloon. Do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about what this book's about? Sure, sure. You know, when I began writing Arthur Wants a Balloon, it was just that simple. It was that simple kind of childhood want of wanting a balloon. But as I continued writing it and fleshing it out, it became much more— that simple want became much more and took on much more meaning. And Arthur is a little boy who, as I said, wants a balloon, and he is following his Papa each day through the park, and he sees his favorite vendor, the balloons, favorite seller, and his Papa always tells him no, which is also a very common, you know, parental thing to do as well with children, not always to give in to them. But What you start to see in the story, and the illustrations provide that backdrop as well, is that Arthur sees that his Papa is unhappy and he's trying to figure all of that out. And then by the end, he comes to the understanding that he— more than a balloon, he wants his Papa to smile again. And so he ends up giving his Papa the balloon, which translates as a smile. Which is just— it's so sweet and simplistic. But I think we forget, you know, when kids don't understand what's going on, they create the narrative in their head. And we need to try and protect them, but not completely keep them in the dark, because sometimes that's even worse, isn't it? Yes. It's especially with what's going on at the moment, the COVID has affected so many people where not only has it caused a lot of mental health issues or it's brought them to the fore, or we are spending more time with our children in really interesting situations where we can't always just take them out and do the things that we would normally do. We can't kind of bribe them with saying, you know, so-and-so can come over for a playdate, you know, to cheer you up or to do this. Right. It's the pressures that parents have been under, and yet children as well, they can't do what they're expected to do. And you know, as we go old, as we get older, a year can pass. I mean, this has been a long year, but still, a year can pass a lot quicker for adults than it does for children. And even myself, I've been feeling so guilty that they've not been able to have birthday parties or go out and see people, or it's not just as simple as popping out to go and see your friends. And it's, it's been the pressure for the children, but has also affected parents as well. And we've been overly irate, we've been stressed, we've been worried, we've not been able to have access to the things that have normally helped us with whatever well-being or mental health issues that we've had to deal with in the past. I know I know for a fact that I've struggled with not even being able to go into the women's and men's radio station studio, which was like, I used to love going into the city centre. Yes. We're all kind of, yeah, you know. Yes, yeah. And it does, it does affect us. And, you know, I've shouted at my kids over the last year a little bit more than usual because it's been, you know, we've not been able to do the same things. They've wanted to play on their video games more because it's just something to do, but we know that that's going to have an effect on the way that their brain functions. And, you know, they've not— they've been a bit lost as to what they can do. And books like this, I think, are helpful to understand and to kind of engage with our children a little bit more as well. That's the hope. That's the hope for sure. I couldn't agree with you more. I think this has been monumental year in terms of all the struggles that parents, you know, everything that has been thrown at them. And, and we're adults, and so I can't imagine what it is for children, you know. And my own children are more grown, they're high school level now and college level. But for young children, you know, and they have all the same big emotions and feelings that adults do. They just don't always know how to put that into words. So many times it's through those actions that they get those feelings out. So, well, this is what I love about books. We were talking just before we came on air just about, you know, we're huge book fans, and I love the idea that, you know, with the likes of books like David They always embrace a particular kind of tough issue, but with a kind of bonkers humour. And you've got fiction, which is a distraction. You've got comedy, which boosts your mood. You've got autobiographies that help you to understand other people's issues. And you don't always understand what's going on. I, you know, there are books that are just factual, that help us understand something more, or learn something new. And it's just, and it's a way of just enriching our minds or escaping without actually just having to stay glued to Netflix. Yes, yes, sure, yes. I think we've gone through all of our binges, so yes, on Netflix. Yeah, I think books are so important right now. I certainly, I mean, I primarily, as you probably would have guessed, I primarily read picture books just due to the fact that of what I do, I write picture books, but but I certainly love to read all kinds of different books. But yes, yeah, and I gravitate toward books, you know, for picture books and other books that, you know, tend to be thought-provoking, but boy, those humorous, silly, fun ones are always great. And I think we need, you know, to escape. And have an opportunity to do that. And books certainly are a way to do that. And there's so many different options out there. I did— there's a great Twitter writing community. And I did actually the other day say, right, I need something funny, a little bit ridiculous, and a bit of escapism. And I put it out there onto Twitter. And the amount of suggestions I got back were just fantastic. And, you know, there's a particular community out there for book lovers. And I think it's very supportive. Yes, yes. No, I see, and I'm always fascinated by, uh, what everybody— all the titles people put down. Yeah, yeah. Interestingly, one of the books that was recommended to me was called Before and After, and it's to do with, um, a grossly obese man— well, early teen, early 20s, sorry— and where there's a mass Armageddon. Oh my goodness. But it's kind of funny in a really ridiculous way because he knows that one of the reasons that he's living longer than everybody else is because he's got fat reserves. Oh my goodness. Oh gosh. But it's also about living in a world where he's had to be isolated, which is exactly what this year is about. Right. And, and it's also where there's no electricity or internet, and it kind of just reminds us that You know, this year, anything can be taken away from us, and we've had to find different ways to function and to experience life. I think— I know, I think we have. I think we have. I think sometimes, you know, my parents, who are in their 80s, almost deal better with it than us younger ones do. And I think my parents lived through World War II and the Depression and, you know, very hard times, you know, and sacrifices to be made. And I think sometimes they just seem to deal with it so much better than we do. We're all antsy and want to get out, my family, you know, especially, and want to get out. And you have to be patient and sacrifice some of the things that you— and look at, you know, things differently than what you would have. So— Do you know what? It's quite interesting that so many people have said, oh, well, you know, what about the war when there was rations and this and that and whatever? Now you've got Netflix and da-da-da, nowhere near as bad, but we've got to remember that it's different for different people. I mean, I know I have a niece who has just started university, and she is quite an academic. She got 4 A's, and she's just— she can't wait to smash it out the park. And all of a sudden, she can't do anything that she thought she was meant to do. And I appreciate that people are struggling, people are dying, people are suffering with mental health, but you know, there's all these kids that just— things aren't planning out the way that they thought they would, and there's so much pressure on the youth today to succeed and to constantly keep up with whatever's happening on social media, and they're feeling trapped. Yeah. And we need to appreciate that, you know, people have their own different struggles and they need to control their own well-being. And, and a lot of it— a lot of people have had this anything that they can control taken away from them? Oh, absolutely, absolutely no. And I think that is so true for all the college— the kids heading off to university, you know, especially if it was supposed to be their first year. I think there's been, you know, everything has been kind of turned upside down. I know for my son, he's actually a senior, so it's his final year, and at college, and it's, it's just been a constant never knowing what's coming next. We're very thankful that he's rolled with it fairly well, and also given the fact that he's still not getting all the classes that he needs to get, but he'll, you know, the school has been very accommodating in terms of trying to, you know, work with all of the students, which I mean, it's at every level and every person has been affected, you know, obviously by this pandemic for sure, and some greater than others, unfortunately. You know, we've just had to find different ways. I mean, it was quite interesting. My son's birthday was last week and he turned 14, and he's been— I've been very lucky that both my children have actually not suffered too much with what's gone on, and he couldn't have a birthday party as you know, millions of children have not been able to. And myself and my ex-husband, we always go out for dinner with our children on each of their birthdays, and we just went to a really expensive posh steak restaurant. And my son's like, what if I just had like a, a £40 steak? I'm like, sweetheart, you've been really well behaved, and you know, you've done this and this and this, and this is— you're not having a birthday party, enjoy it. And he's like, oh, okay, yeah, really cool. And it's just finding different ways to kind show them that you appreciate them? Yes, yes. No, no, I, I think so. I think so. For my daughter, she's our social bug. She loves, you know, she loves her friends and she loves being around them. And her birthday was back in the springtime, so we had here in the States a lot of times people— and I don't know if you all did it there in the UK— but we would drive by and all of her friends surprised her. She was out on our driveway and they all drove by— not her friends, but their parents drove by in their cars and they all had signs and they sang her happy birthday, you know. And so for her, she just— that— because she couldn't have a party either and she's 15. And, and yeah, and she just cried. She just, you know, she said, this is so awesome, you know, this is what— this is all I needed. I needed to see them. So, so yeah, definitely having to rethink and be flexible about what we do. So, and also we've had the opportunity to try something different, to experience life differently, and to show we care in different ways. And, you know, before we got so lazy in just, you know, texting somebody or just saying, you know, let's meet here, and we couldn't do that. And a lot of my friendship group have come out with some fabulous ways to kind of keep each other together, especially because, you know, we all knew that quite a few of us have different mental health issues. And it's just, we've had the opportunity to actually show we care and to think outside the box. I love it. No, I do. I think, don't you think that we just, you know, for adults, we kind of just go down the straight and narrow, you know, and just keep our blinders on and we keep going going and doing each day. And then we forget. We forget, you know, to check that box for mental health, that, you know, that box for mental wellness. We— and think of it in a different way. And I think that's what this has forced us to do is to have some of those innovative ideas, which I think is great. Well, I have found that, especially because we've been stuck in the house a bit more, I've got my son doing a bit more, my eldest son doing a bit more DIY, and he's learning now. He now knows that he can change locks. And he can paint and do things like that because, you know, it was giving him something to do and he, especially when he had to isolate because a couple of the children in his class had COVID and he had to homeschool. But, you know, it's never the same and we've come up with things, different things to do. But one of the things I did get my youngest one to do, because, you know, I'm a fan of delegating, we read Arthur Wants a Balloon together and I said, Well, this is based, this is aimed at people, children your age. He's 10. So I've got him to write my questions for you. Oh my goodness, okay, okay, I love it. So first of all, he said he thought it was a really strong message and he understood what was happening and what the message was, and he thought it was a really nice and positive ending, and he was very happy when Arthur got his balloon and managed to achieve what he wanted to achieve. Yeah. Now his first question is, what was your inspiration for the book? Well, my inspiration for the book was my own two children. Um, so when, um, my own two children, um, showed empathy and hope when I had some tough moments in my life— I'd suffered from mild bouts of depression throughout my life. But one, the first time that I experienced it was postpartum depression with both of my children. But there was one moment that stood out with my postpartum depression was when my young daughter, and as they can be, was inconsolable one day. She was just crying. I had tried everything, you know. I had tried, you know, changing her and burping her and and, you know, feeding her and doing everything possible, walking with her, and nothing was working. And I, I was struggling to keep it all together. And my young son was there. And I just remember him looking at me with his big eyes and looking at me and saying, are you okay? And can I help? So simple, such a simple thing to ask, you know, to ask, and such a simple gesture, but yet so impactful to me because at the time I knew that I wasn't alone. I just knew that someone cared, and he was that person at that moment, and that made such a difference. So the inspiration came from that, and then the other inspiration for it was closer to the time when I was actually writing Arthur, um, and in the midst of drafting out Arthur, and my husband was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer. And wow, yeah, as, as all families that have been impacted by cancer, um, we reeled from it. We all did. We, you know, I, I think you You never think it's going to be you. I mean, that's just in its very, you know, that's not the case. And when it happens, you struggle with it. You struggle with a lot of things and you struggle with your mortality. You struggle with a lot of things. You know, how our family unit is going to be. And so one day, shortly after the diagnosis, I was dropping off my daughter off to school and she got out of the car and she turned to me and she said, "Mom, I'll be strong for all of us, especially dad." And she shut the door and trotted off to school. And I, aside from the fact that I was bawling, my tears were just coming down my face, was the fact of her strength and her resolve. That she was going to make that happen, you know. And so that's where Arthur's character, his strength, his resolve, his, his struggle to figure it out, yes, his struggle to figure out why his Papa wasn't smiling and how he could help with that, but also his resolve to make it better somehow in his own way was. And so that all solidified Arthur's character for me. Those are the inspirations, my two children. I mean, it is about helping them to understand, isn't it, as well, and keeping an open dialogue. And yes, I think that's a beautiful kind of— this is the message that we need to get out. I mean, I, I've had a few struggles over the last few years, and, um, and I know that children as well, they struggle. They need to feel empowered and to feel as if they're in control of what's of what's happening to them in their situation. And sometimes in the past when I've kind of, I've needed to control something, I like to keep my house quite neat and tidy. That's my way of trying to keep on top of my anxieties. And I've explained to them that yes, I do whinge at you sometimes and I need certain things tidied, but it's just because maybe I'm going through a funny stage and that's what helps me keep an even keel. And likewise, and I've kind of said to them, said, listen, you need to know you like your own space as well, so you keep your room tidy, I'll stay out of your space. Or, you know, but I explain it to them and they understand. And likewise, when my 10-year-old, he might get stressed out about certain things, and I've said, well, let's break it down and figure out what will make you feel better, in the same way that I explained to them that what makes me feel better is feeling like I have order. Right, right. No, oh my goodness, I am the same way. I am the exact same way. I need to have order, um, in order to just, um, it just helps me function better and compartmentalize as well. Yes, yes, I do, I do. Um, and if they understand that, then, then it means that they're not just thinking, oh, she's just whinging at me, right? Right. They understand. Yeah. And if they think I'm having a little bit of a, a crazy mummy spurt, then occasionally they'll go, 'Should we hoover up?' I'm like, 'Yes, that'd be great. Shall I make cakes?' 'Yes.' Good, we're all happy. No, I think it is so important to keep open that dialogue. And when I talk about, you know, for Arthur, you know, and kids wanting to help, it's certainly— they always do want to help, but I really, really, really want to stress that it is not their job to solve it, nor were they at fault if a parent has depression. And I think that's so important to make that very clear to children. My husband and I were always very much, you know, when our kids were younger, but also even now, very open about talking about our feelings, you know, talking about thoughts and feelings about things, just like you were mentioning, you know, hey, this is why I need to organize things. It helps me, you know, keep everything even-keeled and I'm good and, you know, move on. I think it's so important to kind of dialogue with them about, you know, their day, things that came up. And we always talked about their feelings as well as talked about the other— others' feelings who maybe they had, you know, a disagreement with on the playground, you know, at school or something. And we I always thought that that would help them, you know, try to understand the other side. You know, you don't always know what that other person is going through, um, and hopefully that would help them have that empathy that— for other people and their feelings. Well, the more we open up and, and have a dialogue about what is happening, the more the brain is open to functioning that way. Yes, yes, I would agree. And I am no expert, mind you. I am just a parent. I mean, my background is not in psychology, but I just— we always felt, we always felt that they just seem to understand and, and have more empathy toward others and themselves. They so need to have it for themselves. I think that self-love is such an important part of all of this. And the understanding. Well, he did actually ask how supportive— I'm reading these as— because he actually wrote them straight for me. Oh, nice. Thank you. You'll have to thank him for me. I will. He asks, how supportive were your loved ones when writing and publishing your book? Oh my goodness. You know what? That's a great, great question. And they have been extremely supportive. Extremely supportive when writing. You know, I have a book prior to Arthur that came out, and then Arthur came out as my second picture book. But yes, they have always been supportive of my writing. I think they see the joy that it brings me when I write. And it is my solace a lot. It's my calming. And so I think for my husband as well as my kids— and my kids, it was so funny with my first book, we were able to do a bit of a small book launch with social distancing and masks and everything earlier this fall because numbers were way down and we were able to do kind of an open air, so to speak, in kind of big area. Gathering, and they were so excited, you know, and I thought, oh, I thought I was just dragging them along to my book launch, but they were, they were really very, very complimentary and very, very supportive and loving of what, yeah, yeah, what I love. So, and very, very proud of you as well, I'm sure. Yes, yes. They are. For sure. This next question, this is written by a 10-year-old. What are your thoughts on nowadays depression? Say again? What are your thoughts on nowadays depression? Oh, nowadays depression. Oh, I love him to pieces. He's just— he's— I love it. I think he's hit it. I think he's— I, um, You know, he, yeah, he has hit a point. I think our world, just the craziness of our world and everything has just heightened, I think, depression in lots of people. I think we're not as connected as we need to be to people, meaning, and COVID has not helped at all because you need that human human connection, you know, like those connections, like in-person connections. And I think that has been the huge struggle. And don't get me wrong, I love the fact that I can connect with people on Zoom across the country or across the world, or even on Skype today, like our interview. But I do think that we miss that human connection, and that then can cause even more people to become sad and depressed because they're— I— we're social creatures, as, you know, human beings are, and so we need that. I think also a bit about what I said before about controlling our surroundings, and quite often people manage their mental health and their well-being, and so many elements that help us do that, the socializing, going to the gym. And I know people were allowed to go out and run and cycle and things, but, you know, it's not for everybody. And certain people need certain things to keep themselves on an even keel. And that was taken away from a lot of people. Right, right. No, no, that's what I, I think even— yes, I mean, I think my happiest friends, you know, like nothing, they were so even keeled, they roll with it and everything. Even they are starting to feel the effect of all of this, all of this. And, um, and like I said, I mean, we still try to connect, but it's just not the same. Yeah. So I think it has really, really been a test for us, all of us. Um, so the nowadays depression, I would say, is more heightened than, um, you know, from just my perspective. So, and there's been a bit more fear as well because I've had, um, certain issues, especially with, um, single mum friends of mine who have said, you know, um, what they're worried about is if they get it, who's going to look after their child? Or I've got friends— yeah, and I've got friends who've got children with special educational needs and disabilities, and they're like, well, if they get it you know, the NHS is so strained at the moment that they don't have the additional facilities to help in a particular way that certain children with additional needs need. And so that's where the fear is, right? Right. No, no, I will tell you, you know, and, and I have never been very anxious about things. I mean, I get anxious occasionally, but not to the point it's almost a visceral response. And I went to the grocery store— this was in the spring— and they had everything set up so you would only go down one aisle, and, and you all needed to be masked, and you needed to stay in this area, and then you needed to have space here. And I will tell you, I walked out of there and I called my husband and I said, I don't think I can go to the grocery store anymore. This just bothers me greatly, like to the point that I'm just anxious and overwhelmed with the event. And it's just going to the grocery store to get milk and eggs and bread. You know? Yes. And people were getting stressed out. I mean, I remember— in exactly the same situation as you've just described, and you could see it in somebody's face when they'd forgotten something that was about 20 foot behind them, and they went to do it and somebody kind of shouted at them. Oh no! And everybody's stressed, but it was a kind of, 'Am I really not allowed to walk backwards a few feet?' And people have been getting quite irate with others because some have been, you know, they have been fearful or they have been, you know, You've got to understand everybody's different opinion. But I've done it as well where I suddenly went, oh, my friend asked me to pick up mayonnaise, and I knew it was just a few kind of steps behind me. And people are like, no, no, no, no, stick with the route, stick with the route. I'm like, I don't know, I know. And it is, it's those such commonplace areas, but yet you do, you have everybody dealing with it in various different ways. And, um, I know I made like 2 trips around because I forgot one thing and I couldn't go back. And so I kept circling, I kept forgetting it. Mind you, I've, I've become very efficient in my list making before I go to the grocery store now, so I don't have— there's no winging it now. Yes, exactly. I've got it. Yeah, I've got it down now. But no, I just I, I, I just think that it has been definitely, you know, yeah, yeah, a true, a true struggle. And then it is for all those that are hospitalized and had loved ones pass away and, um, from all of this. I just— my heart breaks. Um, I, I, it just— yeah, it's just been devastating. And there's just been so many different elements to it. And I must say, I have read so many books throughout this year. I mean, I read a lot anyway, but I've kind of— I've been putting on extra shows because there's so many books that have been coming through and so many books that I've thought were important as well. And I've had friends who said, oh, I wish I could read like you, I wish I could I'm like, if you can't concentrate, you're the kind of person that should be reading because you need to kind of retrain your brain and find a different way to kind of experience something. And it's— I do find it so calming as well. But I've missed sitting in cafes and bars and just reading a book. Yes, yes. That's heaven. Yes, no, it is, it is for sure. I will say, you know, at the beginning of all of this, I did have trouble concentrating and I kind of turned away from books, you know, and that's sad to say, but it was— but it's okay. Everything was thrown at us so rapidly that I was having trouble processing everything and that I just was, I think, just trying to get by each day, you know, trying to deal with kids home, my son got sent home from university, and, you know, I mean, just all kinds of things, logistical things that we were trying to figure out. And we were trying to spend a lot of time outdoors. Outdoors for us just tends to be the spot where we do best. And, but no, and since then I've come back to, of course, all of my reading and obviously missed it. And it is, it's so calming. It's so lovely. I just, yeah, I just Ah, it just, yeah, it makes you sigh. Yeah, we did actually, for the first part of COVID um, you probably know that in the UK the weather was unbelievable. We've never had the British weather actually be on our side so much. A silver lining for sure. Yeah, it was fantastic. So I wasn't reading that much then because I was out and about with the kids as much as possible because we didn't know when the weather was going to change. And then months later it's still good. I'm like, great, we've all got this COVID tan, it's fantastic. Um, but then, you know, I've got back in and now it's just quite miserable. So I'm sitting in reading books a lot of the time, and, you know, the kids are doing it as well. There is a little bit more, uh, time on YouTube and the PlayStation and whatnot, but I think it's all about a balance. And I did my best to make sure that they were out and about and they were, they were paddleboarding, they were swimming and doing as much as they could while they could in the good weather. And now I'm like, yeah, you smashed it the first half of the year. Yes. No, absolutely. Yeah. My kids too. They, they certainly, yeah, they were, we were all active and out and we found kind of new adventures canoeing down one of the rivers and doing different things that we hadn't done before, which was great fun. And it was, it was family time. And for, for us, um, our, our son who's 21, he, he was essentially, you know, gone off and doing his own thing. And, um, and so rarely he came home, you know, just for holidays he would come home. And, um, so it was actually kind of a, a silver lining for us that we got a lot of family time together that we probably wouldn't have had in the springtime. So yeah, we were forced to really get on with our family and actually re-engage a little bit as well. Yes, yes. Well, and refocus, because usually we're running off to activities and everything. So we do school and then we're off to activities, and then, you know, by nighttime it's homework and then we're to bed. And, um, It slowed down a lot, you know, it slowed down and helped, I think, us think about those small things that are important. Well, I find it interesting because everybody's been doing Zoom parties. Now you have 30 cousins. What were your Zoom parties like? So we didn't— I haven't Zoomed with any of my cousins on my mom's side. Side, but yes, I do. I have— I am the youngest of 30 cousins. Oh wow! Yes, and so I am the youngest by far, so, and I live away from them. Most of them live in Northern Illinois area, but yes, that, that would be— yes, we would really have a party because we used to as kids. Um, they used to— we lived out in the country, my family did, the countryside. And, um, for Fourth of July, it's a big celebration in the summer here. They would all come out and, and we would just play outside like from morning till night. And all of my aunts and uncles would just, you know, they would barbecue and, um, hang out, you know, all day long at, you know, our house and such. And it was just great fun. So yeah. And also you've got two big fluffy dogs that, that's helped. I mean, they've been like gold dust. If you had a dog, everybody wanted to, uh, borrow your dog during COVID right? Yes. You know, they, they are, they, they made the difference, I think, for all of us. Um, they are comic relief on most days. And, and, and, but also, they also, they love to go for walks, so they forced us to get out and to do that. And so that's a great thing for them. And you know what, I, I just, I love dogs, probably because they're just there to love you. They don't judge you. They don't need anything from you necessarily, maybe a walk and a, and a, you know, treat every now and again. But I mean, no, they're just just, yeah, they give me, give me a lot of peace. You're never alone when you have a dog. Yes, for sure, exactly. And we have something in common. Now I know, what kind of dogs have you got at the moment? So one is a rescue, and he is, he is an English Setter and Italian Spinone mix. And then Luigi, so that's Finn, And then Luigi is, uh, uh, yeah, well, it's called the Spinone Italiano. Yeah, but a spin. Yeah. So, and you used to have, um, so I, I know that you'll understand the kind of life I lead at the moment. You used to have beagles, didn't you? Yes, yes, I did for a time. I did for a time. So we lived out in the country, and you know what, um, people unfortunately aren't all all very nice. These beagle pups were dropped off, you know, someone dumped them off in— we had a long lane in the ditch in front of our lane, and my dad found them. My dad was out in the field, you know, tending different things, and he found them. And so he brought them back to our house and we took care of them. Yeah, yeah, Bert and Ernie. I mean, they're bonkers. This is what I've got at the moment I've got, um, I've got a beagle called Charlie Princess Pants. She named herself. She's got her own Instagram account. But yeah, um, beagle owners are, are a different breed. Oh, I love them. I love them, you know. And I still— our neighbors here have a beagle two doors down, and, and Lloyd will be out at night barking, and I love to hear him bark. Yes, yes. And they, they always are like, 'Quiet, quiet, quiet,' and he's barking away. And it just makes me smile because it reminds me of Bert and Ernie. See, mine are too— my beagle's too lazy to bark. It's very rare she barks. She's just like, 'Oh, can somebody please bark for me?' And that will be the princess element of her. I was gonna say It's fitting for her name then. I just want to point out as well, because I mean, I'm finding out all these different things about you. You've got a lovely little fact file on elizabethgilbertbedir.com, which is all about, um, all about you and your books and the events, and you blog as well. So I just want to point our, um, our listeners in that direction, because you've also got your Facebook and Instagram and Twitter page there. I have so many more questions from my son, but because I've got some as well and I'm in charge. The final one I'm gonna pick for one of his is he's quite interested in the illustrations and how you got to choose the, the route that you went down and what illustrator you used and how they understood what you wanted. Sure, sure. No, great question again. I, he Erika Meza is my illustrator, is the illustrator for Arthur, and she is hands down fabulous. Um, not only just a lovely person and fabulous to work with, but, um, just so talented. Um, and I swear she climbed into my mind and knew, um, what I wanted for the illustrations. She just perfect. So I did not choose— just, I think people who are not in the publishing business and in writing don't always know that it is usually the publisher who picks the illustrator if you do not illustrate yourself, like illustrate and write. So they were the ones who found Erica, and I am so thankful they did. Erika just knew what I wanted, you know, and what my editor wanted for Arthur, because the illustrations lend so much to the story. Oh, it does, yeah, because it's got that kind of grey tone to it with these sparks of colour, which kind of epitomises mental health, doesn't it, really? Yes, no, and so she set the mood just perfectly. And with the little— and we call them boots, I know you call them Wellies— that are the pop of color throughout, that takes it, the thread all throughout, that are just lovely. And when I, when I saw those, when I saw the sketches for the first time and I— and color had been added, I started to cry when I saw the yellow boots, and I'll tell you why. My young son, who I said was the inspiration, he's now grown, but had yellow boots just like that. And I'm like, oh, that's why I said, I think she climbed in my head and knew what, you know, what I wanted. So no, and Erica loves yellow, and she had yellow boots as well and had an inspiration there to do it. She has done such, such just a lovely job of carrying through everything in the story as well as her balloons. She talks about the different designs on each of the balloons evoked different emotions. And so, which, which is lovely. So she took it And the illustrator is so important to a project for a picture book because they take it to the next level. So you have your story, but then they breathe life into that story with their illustrations. I think that's definitely what Jacob, my son, was really focusing on because, you know, kids are very visual. Oh yes, yes. So I was quite impressed with him about that. Now, um, I should get my kids just to write all of my interviews, but I do have, I do have two of my favorite questions. Sorry, what was that? I said good job, Jacob. Yeah, Jacob, you smashed it, sweetheart. I'll tell him. I'll bake him a mince pie later to thank him. Awesome. But I have two of my favorite questions that I like to ask all of my guests on Get Booked. And the first one is, who in the public eye at the moment do you think is completely smashing it out of the park in terms of just either being positive or somebody to look up to or somebody who's always got something interesting or poignant to say? Oh gosh, um, I, uh, Do you know what? Somebody— I did a show last week and I asked this question to somebody like, oh, you put me on the spot. I'm like, oh, just come up with something out of thin air. And then they asked me a question. I went, oh, I can't think of an answer. No, no, no. I was thinking, I was thinking more like, I was thinking mental health, you know, and, and I was thinking of those individuals who talk about it all the time, you know, and start that conversation. Oh, so Brené Brown, do you like her? Yes, yes. And then for in the US, um, someone in the public eye, I was thinking of the singer Lizzo. She talks a lot about self-love. Yeah, you know, and, and I think, I think that's fantastic. I, I was thinking too that, um, you know, for the men, uh, uh, Carson Daly— I always watch the Today Show, um, here in the U.S.— and Carson Daly has talked a lot about his anxiety, and I just thought, ah, that's just, you know, I, I, it's, it's hard to talk about it, right? I mean, it's hard to talk about our mental health sometimes, and I just always appreciate people who talk, who talk about it and share, because I think that's— and not trying to be trite about it, but it's so brave, you know, to take that step and talk. So I guess I was thinking more about that. And then who I admire in the public eye in general this year are all our healthcare workers and first line, you know, first responders. I guess that's what came to my mind when you said that initially. I just— it can be anybody, it can be absolutely, yeah, anyone. It can be the neighbour, you know, it doesn't have to be in the public, it can be anyone that just absolutely floats your boat. I mean, I know people who, they couldn't work because of COVID so they volunteered at— to be a porter at a hospital where, say, their partner was working so that they could be with them. That's fantastic. See, those times, I guess those— I am always of the mind of the people that, you know, it's all the people out there that don't get or ask for the recognition. They are just doing what they love to do, and, and they go each day and do it and, and put joy into it. For us Yes, food insecurity has been a huge thing here, and it's, you know, giving all of those individuals, being able to provide food to them. And yeah, it just— those are the people. Those are the people, you know. There are so many people that have done incredible things. I mean, before COVID but especially now where they've just I don't know. Yeah, but it just seems like it's heightened now, right? It, it just seems like it's more maybe in that public eye, I guess, of those. And so be it, they should, they should be. So do you know what, I mean, this is, this is going to be the, the last show of this year going out on Women's and Men's radio station. And I do want to say, make sure that everybody has a fantastic Christmas and New Year. But I, I really urge all of listeners and all the listeners to tell their friends and family to really focus on 5 really amazing things that have happened this year because of COVID Mm-hmm. What you found out about your friends, what you've learned to do, what you've appreciated about people, what has gone right. And don't focus on what's gone wrong because we need to change our mindset. And there are so many things things that I've realized about myself and my family and how creative people can be that, you know, it's— we are lucky in so many ways to have had this kind of thrust upon us to help us realize some of the better things of life. Yes, there's been some real crappy things that have gone on. Yeah, but yeah, let's focus on the good stuff as well. We don't have to completely discount the rest, but you— if you actually do that process of thinking positively and writing it down just reminding yourself, it works wonders. Absolutely. I, I completely 100% agree. It is— we do need to look at the positives, and, uh, and there are so many. So, well, and there are. And what I'd like to ask you, what, what were the 3 tips that you would give to anybody else, whether it's your kids, somebody you see in the street, or when you're doing one of these interviews? What, what are 3 tips on good mental health? You know, and I've mentioned this throughout, it's talking, talking to whoever you can, whoever, whoever you trust to talk with, talk with them, talk with them. I think it's when we internalize things, that's when it starts to get scary. Yeah. And, and I think it's important that, that we do talk whatever way we can, you know, whether it's Zoom, whether it's phone, whether it's you know, in person. But for me, for me, exercise helps. And I am no marathon runner, mind you. It is just I get out and I go, you know, and, and I run my dogs, or I, you know, walk them, or we, you know, go down a wooded trail and have a long walk, that type of thing. Just get out and do it or, you know, I know gyms are closed, so that's a hard thing right now, but I mean, you know, any form of exercise, you can do it at your house too, various like videos or whatever. But then for me, a lot of times it is that routine and schedule. You know, when I had postpartum depression, it was hard to get out of bed sometimes. And it is that routine and schedule that has helped me. And I just say one step at a time. I'm going to get up, I'm going to get showered, then I'm going to have some breakfast. You know, I mean, basic stuff, right? Small stages. Yes. Small steps. Just focus on that one step. Yep. It's that schedule, one step at a time. So I would say that. Okay. I think when you look at the big picture, then it overwhelms you. And then you want to just climb back into bed. But do you know what though, Liz? Give yourself a break as well, because, you know, I turned around to my friends the other day and I said I couldn't get out of bed. And for the first time since I was probably, I don't know, about 20, I didn't get out of bed till about 1 PM. I had been awake since 4 AM till about 7 because I couldn't sleep. But then I actually fell asleep again, then stayed in bed, and I was like, I feel so lazy. Lazy. And my friends are like, you're always up and out and doing stuff. Give yourself a break. If you can't be bothered moving every now and again, go with it. Yes, yes. It's that self-love, right? And that's why I mentioned Lizzo. Yeah, with the self-love, because I think that's what I think we don't do enough of. I think a lot of people who have, you know, mental health concerns and And I, I think a lot of us are quite perfection-oriented, you know, and that we have expectations of ourselves sometimes too high. And, and it's important to give us that grace to be— it's okay. So, and you know what, there are different ways around giving yourself a break as well. And if you really don't have the energy to move or you're one of these people that needs to keep on constantly moving. And I know I bring this round to this, and it might seem a little bit as if I've got one line, but if, you know, read a book, learn about something. If you want to stay still, you're still being productive. If you're sitting still and reading a book, your mind's active. Yes, absolutely. But also, maybe you just want to sit there and do absolutely nothing, and that is okay too. It is, it is for sure. I am actually, um, I'm reading The Midnight Library. Well, I say I'm reading it, I've got it because I like to read in various different ways because it's nice to have an Audible for when you're going out for a run or you're doing errands and things like that, and it just kind of gives you something else to think about because we can be— it stops the overthinking as well and being overwhelmed and just kind of retraining your brain to think about something else. It does, it does, it calms, it calms my brain at night. A lot of times I read before bed, and, and I, I think that that is what, you know, I enjoy. It just calms me down and I sleep better. Yeah, and do you know what, it helps you, it instigates a kind of different process in your brain as well, which is which is so— it's the same with writing as well. I'm a huge fan of, you know, if you can't sleep on a night, write for 15 minutes, whatever comes into your head, and it will unjumble your thoughts. I think that's— it's a fantastic process to kind of instigate, to kind of breed into your routine, and kind of— it's like a brain dump in a way. You just kind of get everything out of there. It is, it is. My daughter journals a lot, and I love that about her, that she just gets it all out. And, and my writing tends to— that is my love, you know, and it, it tends to just get everything out on a page and then you're— it just makes me feel better. Yeah. Oh, completely. And you don't have to write for anybody else. You can just, you know, it's just be nice and cathartic. Exactly. I've so loved chatting to you. I feel like we could go on for so much longer. I haven't managed to talk about your other books. I just want to point to the listeners to get onto elizabethgilbertbodea.com to go and have a look about everything about you, find out your tips and how you are a fantastic cookie maker. Cookie maker? And teacher, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, how would you know you were a good cookie maker unless you ate them? But thank you so much. I think our Once a Balloon is fantastic, and I want to say to all of the listeners, have a fantastic Christmas and even better New Year. 2021 is gonna be unbelievable. I cannot wait to get back with GetBooked and more shows. Thank you so much, Liz. Thank you, Hazel. Have a wonderful holiday season. You too. Thank you. Bye-bye. Are you feeling anxious? Online therapy 24/7 is here to help. 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