Free Your Mind With LKJ – Jane Snell, How To Beat Death

Hello and welcome to this week's edition of Free Your Mind. Let's talk about it with LKJ. Today we have a wonderful guest. Her name is Jane Snell. She's the editor-in-chief of Menopause Life and also part of Menopause Experts. Menopause Experts are dedicated to improving the health of women going through menopause. They offer a free accredited training program, a fully branded magazine, Menopause Life, and sell brand licenses around the world to those who want to change the theoretic— how do I say that, Jane? Sorry, just cutting in. No, because I can't see what you're wanting to say. Oh, is it? Well, I'm just saying you're trying to change the the thought process around menopause. Yes. And yeah, and obviously we're wanting to educate as well. Yeah. And educate others. You are actually trusted by medics and other professionals. You can offer bespoke programs for companies and groups of all sizes and can work with HR teams, owners and employees with benefit teams. Life Through Jane into turmoil and a very challenging time in 2011 when she was diagnosed with blood cancer. So for the listeners, welcome Jane to Free Your Mind. Let's talk about it with LKJ on this hour show to help educate others, explaining your own personal journey after being thrown into menopause at an early age. So I've got— I've cut short there without explaining further in detail. What is, you know, out and available for people to read about you. And it's different about reading on paper, but hearing your voice and explaining and connecting with the audience. So come on, can I ask you to free your mind and talk to LK Jane and the listeners at Women's Radio Station? Of course you can, and thank you very much for having me on your show. And so I think you wanted me to start with talking about the curveball and what sort of gave me my boot up the backside, if you like, and changed my life considerably. Yes, please, if you— if that's not too painful. You know, obviously when we are talking about these subjects, it can affect people and any of the listeners. You know, these are highly sensitive shows when people are opening up and freeing their mind and taking us on that journey. So, you know, please do And I'm, as myself and radio station, all the listeners, you know, can't wait to hear, you know, all about you, Jane. Okay, so in 2011, I started to feel poorly. I had all these pains in my head, and I was eventually diagnosed, well, quite quickly diagnosed with trigeminal neuralgia. Which is a nerve that fires off in the top left-hand corner of my head. It fires for me, and I needed to go on to medication that would numb this pain. Unfortunately, I had an allergic reaction to that medication, and because of that, they decided to do a blood test. And through that blood test is how we found out that I had myelodysplastic syndrome, which is a very rare blood cancer, and is ultimately, it's bone marrow failure. So for me, I didn't make my red blood cells correctly. They were, they were too large, and they also didn't carry oxygen like they should. So at the time of diagnosis, I was told that I had about 2 to 6 years to live, and it would depend on how my illness progressed and obviously how quickly it progressed. At the time, my children were 13 and 15, and even though I was the one being diagnosed with blood cancer, my immediate thoughts went straight to my children. I was desperately sad. I was just desperately sad, and I just didn't want there to be a hole in their lives where I should be. I also didn't often think about my dreams and aspirations for the future back then, but as soon as I was diagnosed and told I only had 2 to 6 years to live, I suddenly realized I had a lot of dreams and aspirations. And a lot of them were around my children, you know, I wanted to see them grow up, I wanted to see them happy with their own families, and I realised that I very much wanted to be a grandma and I just wanted to stay for the rest, you know, for as long as I could and to see them grow up. Also, another difficult thing for me at that time was telling my parents I had a sister who died when I was 5, and she died because she had problems with her blood. So when I had to tell my dad that I also had problems with my blood, it was the most awfullest thing I've had to do. In a way, it was harder than telling the children because they didn't fully understand, whereas my dad, it just absolutely broke his heart and he made this sound when I told him that I'll never forget. It just sort of escaped from his throat, and he just pulled me into this great big bear hug. And all throughout my treatment, I couldn't actually look my dad in the eyes because there was just so much pain there, and I felt responsible for that pain. And so all of my updates went to my mum who is incredibly strong, and I would tell my mum, and she would have to tell my dad because I couldn't bear it, and I don't think he could bear it either. I think it just was easier for both of us if those updates came from my mum. Telling my children was awful. I mean, I'm not taking anything away from that. It was awful. But I think over the course of the next 9 months, they sort of got drip-fed how poorly I was. But I do remember shortly after telling my daughter, and this is one thing I regret now, I didn't cry. But I remember I told my daughter and she was upstairs in her bedroom and she was quiet, so I came up to see how she was and she was sat on her bed and she was crying. And I said, a stupid question, I said to her, I said, are you all right, Jess? How are you? And she was like, she's, but Mum, who will I go shopping with on a Saturday? And who will I have lunch with? And it's funny the things that you, you know, younger, you know, your children think about. But that was obviously special times for her and for me. And I said to her, Jess, you're 13, you'll soon want to go shopping with your friends. And she said to me, "But Mum, you were my best friend." And actually, that is— I cried about 3 times throughout my illness, and that was the first time that I cried. And she was so surprised to see me crying. And I just had to explain to them that I was sad too. I had this philosophy that I couldn't be sad. That I didn't want them to see me sad, and I wanted them to remember me as the happy and bubbly person that I am. So I worked very hard on being that person. I did a lot of— I did a lot of research, and I brought a lot of things into my life that allowed me to be happy. And I do remember actually being in the kitchen once cooking, and I love cooking and baking, and I was singing And I thought to myself, blimey, am I really happy? And when I analyzed myself, I realized that actually, yes, I was happy. And for me, it was the better way to be. If I did only have 2 years left or whatever, I wanted them to be happy. I didn't want them to be unhappy times. I wanted to make the best of whatever time I did have. My treatment team at the time. So I was actually passed over to the care of this amazing professor at Leeds, at St. James's, called Professor Bowen. And he is one of the top consultants in the UK for myelodysplastic syndrome. So I was very, very lucky to have him look after me. I can't remember where that bit of the story was leading, but I went to him, and he really took good care of me. And he said, though, that no treatment was worth my quality of life at that time. And so I was placed on a watch and wait system. Basically, I was told to go and live my life as normal. And it's incredibly hard to do, you know, when you know that you are dying. It's, how do you live as normal? But we did as best we could. I, as I've said, I tried to remain very happy and very positive. I had an amazing team around me. I had Professor Bone at the hospital, and my own GP was amazing. He said to me, he says, "I know nothing about what you're about to go through." He says, "So," he says, "I will research it, and we'll learn together." And he did do that, but the best thing he did for me is he made me go and see him every month. And just empty my head. And that was incredibly powerful because I couldn't necessarily tell my husband or anybody else how I was feeling inside because I was trying to protect them from feeling too sad as well. Very strange situation, really. You end up feeling very responsible for everybody's happiness. So I didn't actually have 2 to 6 years, and it was only 7 months later that I started to feel really, really poorly. And we'd gone away for the weekend to Flamborough Head on the East Coast, and we were on this beach. It was beautiful, and I was taking lots of photographs. I'd always been on the— I'd always been the one taking the photographs, and I was still taking loads of photographs, but I was trying to also get on the photographs so that if I didn't live, my children would actually remember what I looked like, because previously I wasn't on any. So I became known as this person who was just taking photographs all of the time, but I was just making sure they had memories. But when it came to getting off the the beach, I couldn't actually walk up this slight incline, and my son pushed me as my husband pulled me. And it wasn't the biggest hill at all, it was just a small hill. I couldn't get up it. And when I got to the top, my head felt like it was going to explode. And I said to Martin, right, I think the time's come. I think I'm going to have to ask for some help. So I emailed Professor Boeing and I said, the time has come for some help. I didn't know what that help was going to be. I just knew that I couldn't carry on. I was so tired. I was like, I couldn't even get to the top of the stairs at home without having to sit down when I got to the top. So he replied and he said, I need you to come to clinic immediately. So I went into clinic on the Wednesday. They did loads of tests and my haemoglobin, my red blood count, was down at 7.4. So they immediately arranged for me to have 3 units of blood. Those 3 units of blood did amazing things. I honestly felt normal. I had energy. I felt incredible. I had color in my cheeks. And I was like, why haven't we been doing this before? Because I'd spent like 7 months feeling I was tired and everything, and it was only when I got to the point where I couldn't cope that they actually gave me some blood. I also had lots of tests done, and I'd get the results of those tests after Christmas. That Christmas for me was bittersweet because I wasn't sure if it was going to be my last Christmas. So I made all these plans and I wanted the perfect Christmas. I needed my husband to know everything that I did because Christmas is magical, isn't it? But a lot of the magic that happens was down to the things that I did and the thought and the effort that I put into certain things. So I was like, I said to my husband, Martin, I said, Martin, you have got to do these things. If I am not here, because I want these traditions to reach my grandchildren. Bearing in mind Matthew and Jessica were 13 and 15, but that was going to be his responsibility. And sometimes when you put all that pressure on yourself for everything to be perfect, it just isn't. It was pretty perfect, but I was exhausted at the trying to make everything perfect. I'm not exhausted because I didn't have any blood, because I did. I had the ability to do it. I was just run ragged by trying to do everything myself. So on the 19th of January, I went back to get my results of my bone marrow biopsy, and they were about as worse as they could have been. I was also diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia. So I now had 2 blood cancers, and it just wasn't a very good place to be. They wanted me to go into hospital immediately, but I asked if I could have the February half term at home, and they agreed. Looking back, I think they agreed because they thought it would be my last one. Little did they know. But luckily, Fortunately, my mum and dad, they wanted to do something for us and they sent us to my most favorite place in the UK, which is down in Cornwall, a tiny little bay called Morgan Porth. And there's a pub on the beach there, and I've been going there for 40 years— not to the pub, but I've gone camping down in Cornwall. And my mum and dad actually paid for us to stay in this pub because they have rooms that overlook the sea. And we went down there for 3 nights, me, Martin, Matthew, and Jessica, and it was over Valentine's Day, and it was— I thought Morganporth would be a bit of a ghost town. I'd only ever been in the summer, but it was beautiful. The beach always had somebody walking on it. The pub had an art class that used to meet there. It was a real buzz of activity and still incredibly beautiful. But one thing I did while we were there is we used to walk on the beach once or twice a day. And the beach, the sea can go out a really long way. On this particular time, the sea was quite a way out and we'd walked to the end to be on the, on the wave's edge. And the kids and Martin were all messing about and I just stood on the shore and I can't I think I had some massive spiritual moment. I stood there and I absorbed the energy of the sea, and it was like I was taking it into me so that when I went into hospital, I would have the strength to get through everything. But I absorbed everything about that moment, the sounds, the smells. The way the sun was on the beach, on the sea and the waves and on the beach. And then I did a 360 and I took the whole view in, going back up the beach and all the way around. And when I was in hospital, whenever I felt sad or lonely, because I was kept in isolation for 13 weeks, whenever I was sad or lonely or struggling, or if I didn't feel particularly well, I used to put myself on the edge of the sea and just reabsorb that energy. And it sounds crazy, but it really worked and it really helped me. And Morgan Porth to this day is still my most favorite place to go, and I only have to drive down the hill and I feel that peace and I can breathe and it's just amazing. So We came back from that holiday, and I was immediately then back into hospital. Well, I went into hospital for the first time. I had to have a Hickman line fitted because it had two pipes, if you like. One was where I would be given my blood products and my platelets and my clean products, and one was where the chemotherapy would go into my body. And the plan was— shall I just keep talking? Oh, sorry, I can't even speak. Oh, hold on. Sorry, if you don't mind, it's just— okay, yeah, sorry, sorry, and it's probably the listeners probably be quite— oh, you've told her to stop. I can do. I actually feel really— I'm sorry I'm making you cry. No, It's just the empowerment of yourself and what we've all gone through, issues and mental strength and how you explain it. I actually feel I'm next to you with that and going through it. Please, please continue and for the viewers and listeners, my goodness, carry on if you don't mind. I don't mind. You're telling that story with such strength and empowerment. People to listen to. I'm not going into too much detail. No, the thing being is when you free your mind and you open up and you're talking to whoever, and people that are listening to this show, as I said, they are highly sensitive and open up. But where you get that strength from, and like you're saying, and with that, but please continue, Jane, if it's not too difficult for you. Fine. So I went into hospital and I started this regime of chemotherapy. And basically the chemotherapy is the strongest chemotherapy you can have because the point is to kill my bone marrow, so much so that I can't make my own blood and platelets and that it reduces my immune system to zero. So I was kept in isolation. I had this small room. It was just like a small single bedroom with my own bathroom. And it had like— it was airlocked. So I had fresh air that came from outside of the hospital and filtered, put into my room. I think it was every half an hour because we couldn't have the air coming from the rest of the hospital into my room. So I, I was in there for 4 weeks and I had lots of this strong chemotherapy, and obviously eventually my hair started to fall out. I lost my hair. Do you know, the saddest thing of all is I still had to shave my legs even though I lost my hair. And that's something that I think is incredibly unfair. And I didn't wear— you'd think that, Jane, that when, like you said, you know, the trauma, the going through and all that coming out, and you've got no hair on your head, but you know, you're losing, but still having to do that psychologically, even that itself. It's like, what is going on with your body? You know how it works, how it operates. I think, you know, just absolutely, you know, in this room you can't even have the air, but you're still having to go through this process. Wow. So, um, I used to wear hats. I didn't like— I had a wig, but I didn't like it. And I've got nothing against Ruby Wax. I think she's absolutely beautiful, but it made me look like Ruby Wax and not like— not like me. So I did that 4 weeks. I was in isolation. Martin used to come and see me most days. The children only came to see me about twice a week because Matthew was also getting— by then, you see, it was February 2012, so Matthew was starting his GCSEs that year, so he really needed to be sort of knuckling down at school, which wasn't the best situation and environment for him at home. So he and Jessica came about twice a week. They had to change their clothes. They couldn't come straight from school. They'd have to come in clean clothes because we didn't know what bugs might be on their clothes and things like that. Nobody could visit me if they had any signs of a sniffle. So I did my 4 weeks, and in all honesty, it wasn't too hard. I had a couple of nights where I felt like my boat— my boat, it felt like a boat— my bed was like a boat. It was like I was swinging around the room, but Other than that, it wasn't too bad. Then I came home. I had about a month to get my strength back up. Allow my— So what happens is the first time you have the chemotherapy and it kills, it kills your bone marrow. Your bone marrow can actually re— recover. So we allowed my bone marrow to recover., and obviously it's making my blood and my immune system still. So then we had to kill it again because as long as it kept making my blood and my immune system, I wasn't going to get better. And I think the point that I've actually missed, which is the biggest point of all, is that the end result of all of the treatment that I was going to have was to have a bone marrow transplant. So we needed to kill my bone marrow in a way that it I could not recover. The problem being that if the stem cells transplanted into me, the bone marrow transplanted into me, didn't take, then I would die. So I had my first 4 weeks in hospital. I had 4 weeks at home. I went back in to do it again, another 4 weeks again of the strongest chemotherapy, again taking my immune system to zero. Then I was allowed home again for another month, and this time we really needed my bone marrow to not really be recovering, and I was going to go back into hospital again for some more chemotherapy, but also to have total body radiation as well. That just ensured that I was completely well and truly zapped, and that I could not fix myself, because We just did not want me to be able to fix myself. Going to the bone marrow transplant part, in the run-up to going into hospital, we obviously needed to find me a donor. In 25% of cases, a sibling can be a donor for you. My brother was checked, and very sadly, he wasn't a match for me. Anthony Nolan, who are an amazing bone marrow charity. They hold the register in the UK. There are other charities, but they all feed into Anthony Nolan. Anthony Nolan searched the UK register for me, and there wasn't a match for me. So it was all a little bit worrying at that point. So they searched the worldwide register for me that they link into, and a match in Germany was discovered. And if I remember, I'd like to tell you about this man today. Ja. Ja. But he was a young man and he'd joined the register not many months before and he was to be my match. I didn't know anything about him at the time and I didn't know how good a match he was, but I was told he was a good match, but not any more detail than that. So, at the end of June, I went into hospital for the third time to start my conditioning treatment for my transplant. And again, I had 6 days of really strong chemotherapy. And then on the day before my transplant, I had total body irradiation. So basically, the total body irradiation goes from the top of your head to the tip of your toes. Because it was my blood. So we had to be able to target the whole, the whole of me. So Day Zero is what it's known as, and it was the 6th of July, 2012. And that's when I received my stem cells. And it's quite an anticlimax in a way, because it's the smallest. It looks like the smallest bag of red blood cells that you might receive as a transfusion. And this small bag of stem cells was transfused into me through my Hickman line. And basically it goes into your largest artery and it just washes around your body. And then they miraculously make their way to your bone marrow. And they started to heal me. And it's incredible. Medical science is just incredible. About 15 days later, we could see that my donor's stem cells were starting to make blood. So I'd been kept alive for the last 6, 7 months with blood transfusions and platelet transfusions because I wasn't making my own. And here I was starting to make my own blood again, and it was his. So I have changed blood group. I was born with O positive, and now I am A positive. And I find that remarkable, that you can actually change blood group. And it is his immune system that I have. So we could see that was starting to happen after 15 days. And then about another week later, I was doing so well that I was allowed home, to come home to start to, to, to get better and to get stronger. I spent 13 weeks in total in isolation, and I, you know, COVID has been a bit like going back into isolation for me because I've had to shield. And then when I did come home, I wasn't allowed out for 100 days. I had to be really careful of infection still, and I had to be careful of spores, which are like things that float around in the air from trees. Because they could have given me like a fungal infection. So it was harvesting time when I came out, and I live in Yorkshire, as you can probably tell from my accent, and I live on the edge of some fields. So I couldn't go outside because the farmers were busy doing their stuff. So I literally was kept indoors. And when the time came that I could start to venture out, it was scary. I'd not been amongst people for 6, 7 months, maybe more. Can't remember now. From February to— well, from February to really November, December time. So I guess it's nearly a whole year. And I would choose to go out when I thought there wouldn't be people around. But even so, if you go to the supermarket when you think there's nobody there, there's always going to be somebody there. And if they sneezed, I can tell you, I became the master at holding my breath. I was so scared of catching anything. But I got stronger and I got stronger, and on the first anniversary of my transplant, I renewed my wedding vows with my husband. At that point, we'd been married 21 years. We renewed our wedding vows, and I thought I'd done it. And then that was on the Saturday, and I thought, that's it, I've done it. I've survived. I'm going to live. Then on the Wednesday, I got a phone call from my transplant team to say that there were signs that my transplant wasn't holding, and they needed me to go back in to have what's called donor lymphocyte infusion. My donor, bless his cotton socks, he went back to donate a certain part of his immune system, the lymphocytes, and they were then shipped over to me. Anthony Nolan do all the currying. Couriering of product worldwide. So they couriered the lymphocytes to St James's for me, and I started to have lymphocyte infusion. Basically, this gives my immune system a boot up the backside and says, "Come on, wake up, wake up." And it did. I had to have— I had 3 lots of donor lymphocyte infusion. But after that point, I've remained at 100% donor. And you get to 2 years and you think, "Oh, I've done it." Again, you think you've done it, and then you go for your— I'm on lifelong follow-up at the hospital. You go for your appointments and they say, "Well, you need to get to 5 years." Anyway, here I am in July. I will be 10 years post-transplant, and it's just— Amazing. I know. Amazing. It is. It's the most amazing gift I have ever been given. That young man over in Germany went and donated some stem cells for me. It's just like donating blood. It's a very similar process. They come out of your arms these days. So they take your blood out of your arms. It goes through a special machine. They take away the stem cells and your blood goes back into your other arm. So you don't feel— you don't really feel too, too bad. You might feel like you've got a bit of a cold. But you've potentially saved somebody's life. And he, he gave me the gift of life. I would not be alive today if it was not for him and for my— obviously the NHS and my doctors and Anthony Nolan. But ultimately, they wouldn't— all those other people wouldn't have been able to do what they did if it was not for him. So regarding the Anthony Nolan, Can anybody go on and register with them to become a bone marrow donator? Yeah, you can. There are certain criteria, but there are different charities that accept different criteria. So Anthony Nolan focus on people aged 16 to 30. There's another charity called DKMS, DKMS, who I have also been— I'm an ambassador for them as well, aren't you? For both of them, yes. And DKMS, they accept people up to the age of 55. So any listeners that have heard this overwhelming empowering story so far of Jane, in her journey to think that her life was over, trying to cope. And getting into somebody's mind as she's freeing that, as listeners, you know, it brought me to tears. And it just rips at my heart that, you know, a simple thing of donating blood, and so you may feel you have a cold after, I saved somebody's life. That this is something you give so freely, um, and with the other people are in these, um, awful situations like, um, Jane was, um, and this gentleman in Germany did actually save her life, which is also for her children. And 10 years this July to be there. So for myself, if you do want to donate, or this has opened your own mind up to becoming a donor, that this is the reality of it. You can save somebody's life. But let's get back to Jane, because we're right there with you, Jane, as you're telling this story, and then, you know, the after-effects, what you're going through with that. To continue this story, Oh, I guess the thing that, you know, my dreams were to see my children grow up and become happy with their own lives. And they actually both left home last year, and I am— they're both with absolutely beautiful, remarkable partners, and they're both very happy. They're both very settled. They're in good jobs. And, you know, I would not have seen that, and I have seen that, and I'm still a massive part of their lives. And, you know, it was my son and my husband's birthday last Thursday. They share the same birthday. And my son and his girlfriend, they invited us out into Leeds on Saturday to celebrate with them. And it's just— my daughter is up in Newcastle, and she's always saying, 'Mum, come see me, come see me.' And I just feel so blessed to have my two children in my life and that I'm still in their lives. And it's, it's true, I'm grateful every single day. And that is one part of the big message for people really, is to actually find gratitude. And because it does help you live in a more content way when you do that. Going back to my donor, so you're not allowed to meet your donor or have any conversations with them for 2 years. So when I got to 2 years, I wrote to Anthony Nolan and I said, "Can I put steps in place to meet my donor?" So they wrote to him via the register that he signed up with in Germany and asked him what what information he'd be willing to share with me, if any, and he gave me his address, so I started to write to him. My first letter, oh, my first letter was so beautiful. I bought this handmade paper with pressed— I was going to say squashed— pressed roses in it, and I had a lilac sparkly pen,, and I ended up writing 5 pages to him. And it's how do you say thank you to somebody for what they, you know, for saving your life? Anyway, I wrote him 5 pages of honestly my deepest emotions, and he wrote back, and we've been writing ever since. But when it got to our 25th wedding anniversary, which is 5 years ago now, My husband said to me, what would you like to do for our wedding anniversary? And I said, I'd like to go to Rome or somewhere in Italy. And he said, because I've never been to Italy and I'd still not been to Italy, but never mind, I will get there. And he said to me, why don't we go to Germany and meet Michael? He said, because if it wasn't for him, I don't know if I can say this, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary. So I met— by this point we were WhatsApping, which is very sad because letters are much nicer when you can keep them. So I messaged him and said, would he be happy for us to go? So we— he agreed and we went, um, and we stayed with him for 6 days. Well, we stayed in a hotel, but we saw him every day and every night for 6 days, and He is the most remarkable young man. Even he was already, but even meeting him and his fiancée at the time— they're now married— was just incredible. And he's now gone on to have a little girl. And when he told me that they'd had this little girl, it made me feel like I was an auntie because obviously I've got his blood now and he, you know, he is part of me. And I feel like I've got my— this new little family over in Germany, and his life is normal. So donating stem cells does not take anything away from your life at all. In fact, it'll enhance it because you have done something so amazing. When you're saying that, you know, when we're opening up regarding this, Jane, and when you're saying you now have his blood, this blood that's coming around, this clean blood from a person's soul and the character of this person is now coming through yourself. Do you find, Jane, that having met him and wonderful on the 25th anniversary. Story of love, family, hope, kindness, free giving of love, support, donations. It touches on many subjects as well as menopause, which we will not even got to yet. But no, but this is part that will come after. But just connecting with that, you felt like an auntie. Do you feel, um, obviously now being, um you know, like family with them, etc., that together they are yourself and him, like brother and sister walking on, because you've got the family and the DNA in— well, it could be part of your DNA. Am I correct on that? No, of his family through you? It's blood DNA. So, um, it's interesting because there was a program a while ago and this person had committed a murder And they, they, they, they're— now let me think about it. Anyway, basically the person who got done for the murder was not the person who did it. They'd actually had a bone marrow transplant years and years before, and it was the person who donated their stem cells had done the murder. Because literally we are, we are, I am— it's called a chimerism. So I am a copy of his blood. Um, so I've got the same DNA, blood, but, um, I think my soul and my heart are obviously still mine. I think, um, when I'm with him, I feel contentment when I'm with him, and I feel a whole load of love. Um, but I think that's from the gratitude that he saved my life, not that we've got the same blood as such. I don't think he's changed my thought processes or anything like that. The one thing that has changed for me is I do love being outdoors, and I'm a lot more active now, and he is a massive outdoors fanatic. He lives in the mountains in Bavaria. He's a keen cyclist, walker, everything. He's absolutely super fit, and I think since my transplant, I'm the fittest I've ever been. So maybe something's rubbed off there, I don't know. But also, I have this desire to look after myself better now as well. And with looking after yourself, obviously that includes mentally, physically, throughout this journey, the 10 years. And like you were saying, where you lived by a field, you know, with obviously the farms, everything like that, so in case you've got any spores, you know, that were happening. So if your children, when they were going to school, what happened with that, Jane, when they came from school? And would they have to change clothing like they did in the hospital? Yeah, so we, in the house, we had to be exceptionally clean. Not that we're not, but it went up a level. So if any hoovering was done, I was not allowed in that room for half an hour afterwards. We had to change our bedsheets every 3 days. I had my own towels, which I do anyway. Whenever anybody came in, they had to wash their hands. They wouldn't hug me until they'd not got the school clothes on. It— my— even diet changed because there was a lot of food that I couldn't eat. It's hard to remember everything really now, but I couldn't eat, I couldn't have salads and I couldn't have tap water and I could only have fruit if I could peel it. And that's all to do with what might be on the fruit or I don't know. I couldn't have blue cheese, I couldn't have pâté, I couldn't have smoked salmon. There's a whole list of things that you can't have. You just have to be very careful about what you're eating as well because obviously you don't want to get anything. You're in— even my insides, my immune system inside, it just didn't want anything that had to make it work too hard really because it was the other thing. So my immune system is, is Mikhail's immune system. But when it came into me, it was like a baby. So it hadn't been subjected to any of the illnesses that I'd had growing up. So I've had to get all of my immunity again. So I had all of my children's inoculations again. So I've had my whooping cough, diphtheria, tetanus, and polio. I've had my MMR, so I had to really take things very steady for the first few years while my immune system developed. Yes, because obviously it's all clean blood, isn't it? So yeah, although you've been at, you know, having this transplant that saved your life from the gentleman over in Bavaria, but You're now like a newborn baby then, really, going through the— anything like measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, you know, all this stuff could have made you very seriously sick. And very, very serious. I'm saying it's almost— I'm looking at this— it's like being reborn, isn't it? Really was like being reborn. I mean, I often say I was 42 when I had my transplant. And I did 42 years as me, and my aim is to do at least 42 years with Mikhail's blood and immune system. That's my aim. Your aim is to be a grandparent and the children. Did you, um, did the children— did you seek therapy, you know, mental health therapy? Because obviously this is like serious trauma to yourself, to your family. Well, When you reflected back and the tears fell, you know, you were saying about your father losing your sister at 5, this, uh, going through this journey. And obviously we're leaning on you among her strengths that, you know, the strength of course she had supporting you and everyone together with your father, you know, um, and your husband. What a story of true love and the support of family and, and being together doing that.— that for yourself is so inspiring. But through that strength— and I was saying, did you have any therapy with the children— with that, because you not only— I'll get you to ask that question in a moment— but your selflessness in going through all this, that you gave your voice to associate speakers presenting skills in workshops as a trainer for Speakers Trust, helping people communicate to get their message. Everyone has a voice, and Speakers Trust develops the capability to speak up and speak out. You did that. You did, um, Parachute of Dreams, a professional inspirational speaker. So, you know, doing that, Anthony Nolan, personal development coach, you know, menopause expert, and obviously with those bits that we've just abbreviated off, and obviously we are three-quarters of the way through the interview to get through and to touch on menopause. So it'd be wonderful for the listeners to bring back the big stuff that we have missed out on, but it'd be wonderful if Jane can come on the show again at some point to talk through other bits that we've missed, that we can do a segment on that. But Jane, having all that and your children going— and anybody's body going what you went through— then, as we say, it brought on the onset of menopause. You know, and you also had that to deal with. So there's a few questions you asked. I don't know which ones you want me to answer. So you'd asked if Matt and Jess had any therapy. Therapy, yeah, we do that first. So I, as part of when I was going for transplant, you have a team around you that help you with all sorts of things, and one of the things is that they are aware that 'Your children need support.' So I was given lots and lots and lots of support tools for Matthew and Jessica, and both of them flatly refused to have anything to do with any of it. And what I find interesting now is that my daughter has just done— she's done 4 years at uni doing child— childhood and early years and childhood or something like that. I should know it better than I've just said it. And then she's just done a degree in childhood and adolescent mental health because she wants to help children who have trauma in their childhood. And I've said to her, says, that's— I mean, it's awesome that she wants to do it, and I'm so thrilled, and she's going to be amazing at it. But I said to her, says, but when I asked you to have that sort of support, you wouldn't want it. You didn't want it. Um, but yet now you're wanting to give it to others. So it's quite interesting because you've got to actually want that support to be able to use it, but they flatly refused. I think Matthew's been completely fine through it all. I think Jessica put some barriers up and some walls up. I think she was scared of loving me. She did love me. I think she was scared of showing it in case I didn't live, and then she would have to go through even more hurt. And it's taken her a lot of years to build those, bring those walls down, and she knows it has. And that's probably why she's doing what she's doing, because she does want to help other young people who go through, who have a difficult childhood, really. So that was that question. I can't remember your next. We did the theory on it, then I was saying about all the work that you did And you've given that free voice. But, but the final question at this current time is, we had to get to the very core of you freeing your mind to open up what's happened to you, to then come on that not only did you have all that, all these issues, but you had the menopause to deal with. How did that affect you through all that? So I was put into medically induced menopause, obviously, through all of the treatment that I had. So at age 43, they actually— I was actually sent by my transplant team to a proper menopause clinic within Leeds Hospital, and they put me on HRT because, mainly because, to help protect my bones from osteoporosis. But I was starting to have hot flushes and all this, that and the other. And since I've been on HRT, I've had nothing. So I haven't specifically suffered lots of menopause symptoms because I've been on HRT since I was 43. But now I'm 53. No, I'm not. I'm 52. Blimey neck. Put a year on myself. Now I'm 52. I, I do worry more and I do stress about things that I didn't used to stress about. And I do get anxious about stuff that wouldn't normally have caused me any anxiousness at all. And so even though I'm on HRT, I feel maybe it's because I've been on it a long time. I feel though my mental side of menopause is now affected. I feel like my symptom side of menopause is controlled, but I feel like what goes on in my head, um, is, is there. That's, that's very interesting, isn't it, to hear. So that we do think that when we're having the menopause, as you know Jane, I was forced into early menopause myself at the age of 25 when I had a hysterectomy, my ovaries removed, and you're on HRT for a year and battling, you know, you go up and down, your emotions, irritable, night sweats, bad dreams, everything, anxious, you can't cope. And you're saying that, but I don't, I can't have negativity around me. It brings me down very quickly. And so subject to myself too, that I can actually physically feel myself shaking sometimes. I don't like that, I don't like that. So like yourself, that was then, and we had the symptoms that are controlled with that, but we are left with this anxious— some people sail through it, don't they, and don't have any issues, but you know, sometimes we can, and there are severe problems to go in there. So how are you coping with yours? Um, I do a lot of natural— I, I try and look after my mental health sort of through natural ways. So I, I walk twice a day, um, and we've now got a dog. We've only had him, um, 18 months, but— and my children left home last year, and I've realized that without my dog, I think I'd be very lonely and very, um probably not do half the amount of exercise that I do, so he's a godsend. So I do, I walk him a lot. I eat well. I think you can really impact your health by what you eat. I do really believe that food can be your medicine. Can I just cut in on that bit when you say with food? Can really help. Obviously, your nutrition, your diet. Do you eat meat? Or would you, because of this cleansing new blood, are you trying to keep it perfectly clear? So, just like people are vegans or anything like that, is there any special thing on that? I do eat meat, but I eat a heck of a lot of vegetables, and particularly green vegetables. Well, not even— I always have green vegetables as well as other colored vegetables. I actually have all vegetables. I don't know why I say particularly green, but I think green are very important. I eat quite a rounded diet, but I don't— I've cut out sugar and I've tried to be aware of sugar in food. So like bagels and white bread and potatoes, I don't eat that. Because of the way your body handles it. It turns it into sugar. So I don't, I don't eat sort of the wrong carbs, if you like, but I do eat carbs because there's so much carbs in vegetables anyway. I eat fish, I eat all meat, to be fair, I think, but not in large quantities. No, it's like what you've done is the proportion. And when people show you the plate, how you do it, so like with your life, you've been given a second chance, and you take that very seriously in that donor, that you're going to look after this body and yourself because you nearly lost your own breath in this world. And with that wonderful help, that person that came and gave this life is— when you see people that do have donors, you know, and the addiction, you know, for people have— I had a friend that died, she She was given a liver transplant. She was an alcoholic and she hadn't dealt with her addiction part and ended up dying because she couldn't cope with that side and the mental health issues and the domestic abuse that she was living within. Because she was still being battered, she hadn't learnt to control and say, I'm now worthy. I am somebody like that, but was being battered down and lost her life to that. But for you, Jane, you've got the world at your feet. You are there. You are an inspiration to everybody. And this— we've got literally 2 minutes left. It'd be wonderful to bring you back, and we will talk more about menopause as we're going through the year and doing stuff with yourself on that. Because it is, you know, the menopause magazine, um, that is going lots and lots of places, really out there. It is a subject that people need to know about and the partners and everything to go on. Just one thing, can I just say one thing regarding menopause experts? If you go on to the website, and I know, um, LKJ will be putting a link up there, there is, um, a link to some free training. It's accredited free training It takes about 16 hours, but it will empower you to take control of your own menopause and it gives you ideas of what you can do yourself. But it also educates you so that when you go to a GP, you don't get fobbed off. And in there you can— it covers all sorts of areas. It covers psychology, exercise, but it covers nutrition. So if people want to look more into nutrition, they can go on to the Go on to this training, honestly, it's amazing. And educate yourself, help yourself. If it was your husband who was suffering something, you'd go and learn everything about it for him. So learn about it for yourself. There's a lot you can be doing to make yourself feel better. That's great. And as you were saying, there will be a link if you go on to www. Ladykendalljagger.online. You'll see there is already showing the menopause magazine there, but there will be a direct link going up in the next couple of days. So when this interview goes out, people can access this and you can get all the knowledge that you need. You can find Jane Snell on LinkedIn if you put her name into Google. You can see, I mean, this is, this is a most amazing lady with your journey that you have done. And as I said in the beginning to this show, we had a wonderful lady on there to stop and say when we stopped on blood cancer. And for any listeners that were affected by this, please, you know, feel free to comment if there's any support that we can feedback for you. That we are there, because you— your story encapsulates anybody, you know, and it gives hope. There is hope there. And going on, even in your darkest day, how you went and you had that hope from that sea, how you— with your arms out 330 degrees and everything in there. But unfortunately, um, for the listeners, that is the end of this story so far. It will conclude at a later date with more in-depth from Jane. But from everybody at womensradiostation.com, and for myself and all our listeners, thank you very much indeed for joining and sharing your story on Free Your Mind.