[Speaker 2] (0:01 – 7:21)
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism and what a busy week it has been last week and getting even busier. I can’t remember if I’ve told you, but I probably have.

We’re planning three huge events in 12 weeks. We haven’t done anything for 18 months because of lockdown and everything that’s been going on, but we’ve got three events in 12 weeks and we are busy beavering away. So our first one’s going to be Autism’s Got Talent in St Ives, which is very, very soon.

So we’re just about putting the programme together now and chatting to excited performers. And then later on, it’s going to be our 10th year birthday. I can’t believe it.

10 years of doing Autism’s Got Talent at the Blackfriars Mermaid Theatre. So we’ve got just over 20 performers travelling in from all over the country and a possibility of one coming from US. Just checking all the do’s and don’ts to make sure that this person is going to be able to come and perform for us.

So that’s exciting. And also last week, all our judges were reading all of your nominations for the Charity Autism Hero Awards and how tough they found it to choose three finalists for each of the 12 categories. They kept saying, can we choose all of them?

No, no, sorry. You’ve got to choose three. So it was really tough for them to choose the three.

So they’re really looking forward to meeting all the finalists at the Chelsea Harbour Hotel. And then the winners will be chosen on the evening with the three course meals. If you’re interested, all of the information is on the charity website, just to remind you www.annaKennedyonline.com.

And I’m also sharing lots of information about what’s going on in the build up on my social media, which is at AnnaKennedy1 on Twitter, AnnaKennedy Online on Facebook, and at AnnaKennedy OBE on Instagram. A few little bits just to remind you, I’ve had quite a few parents and autistic adults talking about how stressed they are, anxiety building up. So don’t forget about Juliana Wieter, my welcoming, welcoming or even wellbeing ambassador.

She has got so many tips on massage techniques for people who are on the autism spectrum, ADHD, PDA, dyslexia, anxiety. There’s lots of information about what you can do. So just have a little read and just try something that you feel that would suit you or your loved one.

And don’t forget about the magazine. There’s a couple of magazines actually, they’ve got lots of information on special educational needs, which is the SEN magazine. I have been getting this magazine for about 10 years now, I think it is.

So lots of useful information on there. And then also the second magazine, which is very good, is called Autism Eye. So that’s E-Y-E, Autism Eye.

So check them out. There’s a couple of bits that I was looking at the magazine for very long. So it’s free iPads or iPhones for children with a vision impairment and an autistic spectrum condition aged 3 to 18.

Guide Dogs New Service Tech for All helps children with a vision impairment across the UK to access their own devices at home, to support learning or simply to have fun and explore the interests and activity they enjoy. The devices have excellent accessibility features built in and online guides are provided to get them started and to ensure that you know how to stay safe online. The devices are completely free of charge with the only requirement being proof of a vision impairment.

Stocks are limited so apply to guidedogs.org.uk slash tech for all. So just to repeat that, guidedogs.org.uk slash tech for all. And the thing else that’s coming up in October is the TES SEN show.

So another great show that I’ve been to and spoken at a couple of times now. So that will be happening on the 8th and 9th of October. So check that out.

It’s TESSENshow.co.uk. And as I say, lots and lots of information in this magazine and in Autism Eye. The last little thing I just wanted to share with you is My Autism Passport. We have sponsored with Autism Anglia.

I’m one of their ambassadors. So the passport will help you understand my autism and how to make adjustments for me. So there’s about four or five pages in this way can fill the information out because you know what it’s like being a parent or an autistic adult.

You go to appointments or whether it’s hospital dentist, wherever it is, and you have to keep repeating yourself about various different information that they ask you. And it’s all in this passport. So you can just show it to them and say here you go, take what you need from the passport.

So just to give you an example, it’s got about autism, about me filling your details and add a headshot. How can you help me? So example, something like contact my emergency contact who can give you insight into how my autism affects me.

Things that affect my ability to communicate. Again, a tick statement below that applies to you. So it could be tapping on a keyboard, too much information, flickering, very bright or strip lighting.

The next page is characteristics of my autism. Again, a tick box. I have difficulty communicating my feelings and needs.

And then the last page is stress reducing methods that may help and support me. So things that help you to let the person know that you’re going to visit or the appointment. So remove any demands, provide a safe area where I can calm down various other pointers there, and then take a deep breath.

Look at five things you see around you. Acknowledge four things you can feel. Listen for three things you can hear.

Say out loud two things you can smell. Say one thing you can taste. Example, toothpaste.

If you cannot taste anything, say one thing, that is your favorite. Taste. Take another deep breath to end the exercise and then any other notes that you need.

So if you’re interested in buying one of these, so it’s downloaded for free, but if you want to buy, I think it’s something like £1.50. The passport’s been produced by Autism Anglia. They’re in Colchester in Essex. And you should just type in on Google Autism Anglia.

You’ll see the Autism passport. I’m a download for free. I can buy one of the copies.

So my guest today is Helen Eaton, and she’s the author of Anna and Ruby graphic novels. It’s a mini series of podcasts on neurodiversity and gives talks and trainings on autism to families, schools, charities, and workplaces. She also has a postgraduate qualification in primary education, which helps her understand what’s going on in our schools.

Alongside her autism work, she will deliver leadership training and specializes in neurodiversity at work. She does have, which we’ve just been chatting about, an amazingly neurodiverse family and doesn’t think in a typical way herself. She definitely has lived experience when she talks about autism.

Welcome, Helen. Thank you for coming along. Oh, thank you so much for inviting me.

It’s a delight to be here. Oh, thank you. So before we talk about autism, before we talk about anything, tell me a little bit about who is Helen?

Where were you born? What were you like growing up? What did you want to do?

All those sort of things.

[Speaker 1] (7:22 – 7:38)
Brilliant. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, I’m really happy to kind of share a little bit about me and also kind of my household because maybe that’s the most interesting bit is kind of what autism looks like in my house. I live at home with my three teens, my two dogs and one husband. I have to make sure I get those numbers the right way round.

[Speaker 2] (7:39 – 7:40)
Wow.

[Speaker 1] (7:40 – 8:24)
Yeah. Two dogs. Yeah.

All have their own set of demands and needs. One of my children was diagnosed aged six, although we first referred him when he was 18. And one of my others was currently seeking a diagnosis form now.

I’ve been a leadership and management trainer for about 20 years. So I specialize in communication skills, emotional intelligence, teamwork, stress management, time management. And I think that stuff actually links beautifully to the work I do now in terms of autism.

So that’s my own business. I’ve been running for about 20 years, but five years ago, I managed to shift into what I really enjoy doing. And that’s speaking about autism.

So I deliver evenings.

[Speaker 2] (8:25 – 8:34)
You always wanted to do though, you know, young teenager. What did you have like everybody else do? Like, for example, when I was really young, I wanted to be an air hostess.

[Speaker 1] (8:34 – 8:55)
I don’t know why, because I’m not keen on flying, but I wanted to be a dog groomer. So when I was 16, I worked part time and I was atrocious. I just don’t have the artistic skills, the imagination, the skills with clippers.

And I very quickly realized that I would just look and don’t own dogs.

[Speaker 2] (8:55 – 8:58)
And it’s very physical.

[Speaker 1] (8:58 – 9:20)
So I used to I used to I ended up just being allowed to wash the dogs. So I would shampoo about 12 dogs a day, great bigs of holding the sheep dogs and very angry little dogs. Really hard work.

And I sort of realized maybe I could, you know, I always love speaking. And so I kind of shifted into any sort of career where I could just be paid to speak. And that’s what I do now.

[Speaker 2] (9:22 – 9:34)
So tell me a little bit about your children. So he said one of them has been diagnosed. So I’m always interested in diagnosis.

So what is diagnosis like? And how long do you have to wait in the area that you live?

[Speaker 1] (9:34 – 10:28)
So if we look at the current situation, now I say we’re kind of thinking about a diagnosis for one of my other teens. And I made a call the other day, and the service that provides it locally, sort of said, probably 18 months to two years before I could have the first appointment, the first conversation about that. That sort of, I knew it was bad, but it could be longer.

And that is just the first conversation to talk about it. So I kind of had to look around for private services. And I was really surprised then, because I understand why fees are charged, but the fee would be about 1500 pounds, but I still can’t get an appointment until June 2022.

Really? Yeah, they’re so in demand. They’re so where I live.

I’m in North Wiltshire. There were so few services. And I’m sure I get a bit soon, but that first phone call, delighted to see me.

Here’s the bill. And June 22, 2022 for that first appointment.

[Speaker 2] (10:28 – 11:03)
Yeah, because there’s quite a few that do them online now. Like there’s one lady that I know, I’m not that, you know, I’ve known her for 20 years. And she’s just, she does training as well for people who want to diagnose autism.

And she’s got something called Beginning Within. Dr. Carol Stott has spoken quite a few times on the radio. And I’m sure she doesn’t charge that much.

But to be fair, I haven’t asked her. But yeah, she’s, she’s very good. And she’s very flexible.

That’s what I like about her. So if you can’t get to see her, she can do it online or the brunt of it online. So yeah, so she might be somebody to check out.

[Speaker 1] (11:04 – 11:33)
I think it’s complicated as well, because it’s a multidisciplinary team. So a few different people involved and all charged little bits and have the right capability. And even I surprised myself looking at my team going actually, gosh, even with all I know, we still have kind of got to when she’s hit teenage years and gone, okay, I think this is important.

Okay. Yeah, so, you know, maybe it’s a girl thing, just fantastic masking skills, brilliant. And it’s just hidden everything, really.

Okay.

[Speaker 2] (11:34 – 11:43)
So, do your children go or go to mainstream or do they go to a unit or what’s the score with that?

[Speaker 1] (11:44 – 13:19)
They’re all in mainstream school. I’ve had, you know, and I’m constantly in touch and making phone calls and sending emails as brilliant as the school is, as, you know, there’s some really dedicated people with really good intentions, but I am still beginning of every term, the end of every term, sending emails and having phone calls because autism isn’t even there isn’t supported in the best kind of way. And I think, for us, the difficulty is that people aren’t seeing the work that my kids do to get through a school day.

Because at home, autism in my house is about anxiety and frustration, there’s refusal avoidance, there’s sense in my walls, there’s a lot of sleepless nights, mostly mine. You know, my kids are socially excluded, they’re targeted by bullies. And we’ve got dyslexia, attention difficulties, dysgraphia, ticks, lots of literal thinking, needs for control, they need to feel safe, they need information, they need routine, they need all of that stuff, but they walk into a mainstream school, and they’re just very few allowances made for that.

So they work so hard to get through a school day, and they’re so funny, and they’re so talented, and they’re so bright, and they’re so quirky, and they’re really loving kind. They’re my favourite kids in the world because they’re mine, so they’re brilliant kids, you know, they are just so, but they are really quirky, and their talents are so unusual. But every day, they are working so hard to just get through a school day.

So at home, we get deep anxiety, frustration, refusal, sense in the walls, all that kind of stuff.

[Speaker 2] (13:20 – 13:40)
Yeah. What was it like for lockdown for you? Because I’ve spoken to families, and I’ve shared this before, where some families have said it’s the best thing ever been on lockdown, and the reason being there isn’t the pressure of going to school, and the anxieties of the buildup of going there.

With others, they said it’s a nightmare because the routine’s all gone, they find it difficult. So how was it for your three?

[Speaker 1] (13:41 – 14:37)
It was a very mixed bag, so I think the isolation, just struggling to connect socially, was that was just magnified, that became just huge, because they weren’t even able to be in front of people to socialise, so there was that degree of isolation. But actually, in terms of calming, the calm and the quiet, they just loved, you know, that calm and that quiet, and being at home, and just, I think, feeling safe, they felt safe every day, and they felt secure, and you know, the sun was shining, so happy on one level. But their learning was really impacted, and particularly for my son with the diagnosis, because school is school, and he’s really never done homework since he was about five.

It just doesn’t happen, despite every best effort and every approach, he just doesn’t do homework, because school is school, and homework reminds him of school, and that’s not a great thing. So his learning was hugely impacted, you know, he really took a big hit.

[Speaker 2] (14:38 – 14:49)
Yeah, and how was it now? Was there a build-up of anxiety going back to school, because I’m quite sure what was going to happen, and what sort of allowances did they make, if any, for your children going back?

[Speaker 1] (14:49 – 15:28)
So I have a very, very lucky that my school does have, their school has a nurture team, so an area of the school where kids can go to get support, start the day if they want to, but it’s a battle to get that. So I’ve had to really sort of justify and push for that, and I’m a very vocal parent, I know my rights, I know my stuff, so even I’ve had to really push hard. They have a slightly reduced timetable, so you know, my son actually sort of dropping one of his GCSEs, because he just needs time out in a day, and just understanding, and again, the understanding about what will be done at home, and what won’t be done at home.

[Speaker 2] (15:28 – 15:39)
Yeah, homework causes a lot of issues for families that I’ve spoken to, because as you’ve said, home is home, school is school, I don’t see the point of why do you have to do homework, type of thing, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (15:39 – 16:08)
And it just, it brings the school day back, it’s out of context, the teacher’s not there to explain it, I will put it in a different voice and a different way, so it’s a different set of rules, and I was quite happy to accept that, but I have to say I’m very proud, even with all those challenges, my son managed to get a GCSE in statistics a year early, so that’s kind of a public well done to him, despite lockdown, despite everything, he still managed to get a GCSE in statistics a year early, so shows what they can do.

[Speaker 2] (16:08 – 16:34)
Yeah, so if you had a magic wand, here you go, what changes would you make so that autism is better understood in school, whether it’s mainstream, whether it’s a special school, because sometimes special school can obviously get it wrong as well, you know, and units attached to school, so in your opinion and the year’s experience that you’ve got, what do you think can be improved?

[Speaker 1] (16:35 – 18:06)
I think we need to keep the kind hearts and the good intentions, a lot of schools have people who are really willing, but there needs to be understanding, there needs to be real understanding of autism, real understanding of the, that have the child or the teenager experience is the school day, and there needs to be belief. So many children, you know, their information’s passed around school with a list of what they can’t do, so they’re autistic, and that’s viewed as the list of deficits right here, they can’t do this, they can’t do that, or when they can’t do that, and I’d much rather, they say right, this is what the kids can do, this is what they enjoy, and just have people believe in them, because when somebody believes in them, and somebody, and that child can build a really good trusting relationship, they can just, they just unleashes that potential, and those brilliant autistic minds, and those wonderful ways of doing things, but what I see is schools locked into process, locked into systems, and they don’t flex away from those systems, and in a lot of my talks that I deliver, when I talk to teachers and TAs and schools, I say look at your processes, who are they benefiting? Who are your processes most benefiting?

Is it the head, the leadership, offset, who, you, because it’s easier, and flip that around, let’s start with a child, how can that child learn, how can that child engage, how can that child feel safe, and wanted, and loved, and then they’ll start to do the learning, because if you’re trying to get an autistic child through a very rigid, unflexing system, it’s not going to end well.

[Speaker 2] (18:07 – 18:28)
So you obviously go around speaking in schools, so do you think that the schools actually listen to what you’re saying, or do you think it’s a bit of a tick box exercise? Oh we’ve had so-and-so come in, so we know about autism, or you get the golden nugget in mainstream, well I’ve tracked up a child with autism, so I know that there is to know about autism, so what’s your experience?

[Speaker 1] (18:29 – 18:39)
I find a lot of schools view they don’t need to listen, that they have an understanding. When I go in, I’m quite persuasive in my approach.

[Speaker 2] (18:39 – 18:57)
So people, because obviously we do have teachers listening in, how do you persuade them, what do you do to say, hey he’s the olive branch, maybe the way you’re working with a particular child is not quite, there’s other ways that you can do things.

[Speaker 1] (18:57 – 20:50)
I think it comes from honesty, I always start off with, wow look, let’s look at autistic brains, let’s look at how they’re connected, how they’re wired, and look just how brilliant they are, just look, and I talk about, yeah there’s an even development, but that’s brilliant, because they’ll excel at some things, they’ll do some of this differently, they’re communicating a bit differently, brilliant, let’s look at that, let’s look at their styles, their learning, let’s look at how we can work with your team, so look, we’ve got these brilliant autistic kids here, then I start saying, but look, look how they’re experiencing your day, look at what the system, are the pupils, what you might be doing to them, let’s look at how they feel, and I kind of say, would you like to feel like that every day, would you like to feel unsafe, anxious, worried, and then everyone is telling them, very often hear that they’re not good enough, they’re not meeting targets, they’re not meeting standards, they’re not doing things the right way, and I keep bouncing about how would you feel, okay, so now we’re thinking about how an autistic pupil feels, and that feeling is inside, because it hurts, it’s really hurt, let’s look at the long term, really build that understanding and empathy, and I say, right, here’s some really simple quick wins that you can put in place, and a lot of that is about listening to parents, listening to the child, and then just flexing those policies and those processes and those rules, so we can accommodate the needs of those children, and then just let them work to their potential, whatever that is, because it’s different for every autistic child, but let them, even if it’s just getting them to the door and feeling safe and happy and welcome, brilliant, if we’ve achieved that over a year, fantastic, if they’re learning, engaging, developing, brilliant, you know, let’s just keep unlocking them, and I’ve come across, so teachers who really believed in kids, so if I can share a story, if that’s okay?

[Speaker 2] (20:50 – 20:55)
Yeah, I like that, I like stories, because then it gives a perspective of, you know, and ideas as well.

[Speaker 1] (20:56 – 22:23)
So my son went through three primary schools, not by choice, moving schools, and, you know, arguing with schools is not pleasant. The first two, because basically he was being punished for things he just couldn’t do, so he was missing breaks, golden time, all those pleasurable things, because he just, he wasn’t doing what everyone else was doing, and that’s the message he’s had throughout school, is everyone else can do it, why can’t you? And he still gets that in secondary school, but a teacher, I found a fantastic primary school, just a little village school, and the teacher came up to me and said, brilliant, I’ve booked your son into the school hockey trip, but I was petrified inside, how would you cope with the diet, the people, the noise, the minibus?

I was petrified, she would leave it with me, and at the end of the next day, he came back fully kitted out in hockey gear, she put him in as goalkeeper, so he was ecstatic, he basically stood there looking fierce, fully kitted out in this stuff, and just smacked things for about two hours with his stick, and they couldn’t get him out of the hockey kit, because he loved it, and he was so comfortable, but they had to shove him onto the minibus and shove him off again, fully kitted out, and he remembers that day, because somebody said, you can do this, of course, we can make this work, what do you want to do? Right, you be goalkeeper, you stay in your kit, don’t you worry, we’ll get you on, we’ll get you off, we’ll squash you through the doors, you can be goalkeeper for the day, and he remembers that, he really remembers that.

[Speaker 2] (22:23 – 22:49)
You need a can-do attitude, because you do get sometimes where I’ve had parents where they’ve spoken to me, and they say, oh, we’ve spoken to the teacher, and they say, oh, we can’t make that many reasonable adjustments for your son or for your daughter, or whoever it may be, you know, we’ve got 30 children in the classroom, we’ve got 35, you know, and you’ve got so-and-so’s, got dyslexia, you’ve got so-and-so’s, got dyscalculia, whatever it is that they’ve got, and they say, which is there’s not enough time in the day, we haven’t got enough resources, what would you say to a teacher that said that to you?

[Speaker 1] (22:50 – 24:13)
Actually, a lot of the adjustments that would benefit autistic children would benefit a lot of non-autistic children and children with other needs as well, because we’re talking about calm, we’re talking about safe spaces, we’re talking about repetition in the classroom, that helps. So, I have done my teacher training, I’ve been in the classroom, and when we had calmer spaces, when children had space just, you know, it was a low sensory input, and children had a bit of space where children could take those breaks that they needed, the learning and the environment was so much better, because it is so doable, and it can be the simplest things, it could be using a different doorway or corridor to get to their classroom, it could be that their food is ready at the front of the queue for them to take away and sit, it could be a guaranteed seat on the school bus every day, the simplest things that you ask that child, look, what can you do, and what you need help to do, can make all the difference, and you’ll find that, say, that the big stuff, low sensory, low arousal, space, calm, quiet, all those sort of things, really do benefit other kids, and not have, you know, lots of teachers want a very social classroom, but as adults, we don’t particularly like being put in groups and made to do work with people we don’t know, and swap around and move seats, and never know who you’re going to talk to next, reducing the social pressure on a lot of kids in school would help as well.

[Speaker 2] (24:13 – 25:07)
Yeah, definitely, and also something that could seem quite insignificant to you is huge to the child, so say, for example, like Myson, when he was younger, obviously, he was anticipating that when everybody sat at their desks, and then they had to get up the scraping of the feet of the chairs on the floor, it was the buildup of that noise, and it obviously must have exacerbated it as well, that it was causing him anxiety of going into the classroom, so that these are things that sometimes the teacher might not even think of, but for the child, and maybe they’re not going to be able to communicate that, you know, that’s what I’m really worried about, it causes me pain to my head or to my ears, or whatever it is, so they really need to unpick, don’t they, the day just to see what is it that works for that child, or what doesn’t work for that child?

[Speaker 1] (25:07 – 25:35)
Because if they’re not, if the child can’t express that, or isn’t comfortable sharing it, nobody’s listening, then it becomes potentially school refusal, and lots of parents I talk to, children anxious about going to school or aren’t going to school, and say, look at what they can do, and then keep doing that, and then just keep stretching it, and stretching it until, and then we work out which bits, they either they stop at the door, or they won’t do that, or we can use pictures to find out stories, movies, look at other things.

[Speaker 2] (25:35 – 25:54)
Jim, some kids don’t like taking their socks off, like all in that, they refuse to do that, and it’s just that they don’t like the feeling of the cold floor, and there’s lots of different things that for us, that when we, you know, we just get on with it, but for these kids, there’s like things that might not seem so big for you, it’s huge to that child.

[Speaker 1] (25:55 – 26:36)
Absolutely, and I, you know, I really empathise and say, you know, my brain definitely doesn’t work in a typical way, and I have very strong sensory needs, and I know if I’m, you know, I’m getting closer to 50, I know learning, I know stuff, if I’m uncomfortable, if my feet are too hot, I can’t concentrate, and I work in the world of learning, and I can’t learn if I’m physically uncomfortable, if I’m too hot, my feet are too hot, or I’ve got, if I’ve got uncomfortable clothes, my brain reacts so strongly, I can’t learn, and, but even with everything, I know that’s still an issue, so are kids in schools that struggle to articulate that, or nobody listens, we are sort of putting them through a little bit of torture each day sometimes when we send them into the classroom.

[Speaker 2] (26:37 – 26:48)
Right, I definitely agree, so let’s talk about Anna and Ruby, let’s talk about your novel, so how did they come about, and where are you at with them at the moment?

[Speaker 1] (26:49 – 28:56)
So my father-in-law is an incredibly talented artist, and we were sitting having a cup of peppermint one day in my kitchen, peppermint tea, sorry, in my kitchen one day, and he said what do you think about graphic novels, because I’m saying I’m going to find a way, because I love writing, I love words, but I haven’t got the attention span to write, you know, 10,000 words, 50,000 words for a book, and he said let’s do it in pictures, so we spent, actually it was a lockdown project, worked through lockdown, and we communicated via kind of text messages and stuff, because again, I found that easier to share what I wanted to say and what he wanted to say, for both of us it was easier, so rather than doing face-to-face in person, actually to really work together, we just sent messages and questions, it was all via text messages or whatever, other versions, and we came up with Anna and Ruby, and Anna is a boy that some people recognise, he’s very misunderstood, his parents see him as very sullen, as not participating, schools see him as just not joining in, not really capable or able, but we see Anna’s perspective through the story, that actually he thinks he’s okay, and he just kind of wishes the world would stop harassing him, and he’s struggling to let the world know what he needs, but in the first book alongside him, you’ve got Ruby, who’s a really bright, bubbly character, her mum really kind of understands autism, really works to kind of meet her needs, and the two families together kind of work out, you know, what’s going on with the kids and how to best support them, so it’s like taking all of my knowledge about autism and all the kind of really useful ideas and putting them into pictures with a story behind it to make it more accessible for people, and people who don’t want to read a 50,000 page book or whatever, because I know I have a lot of patience for that, you can look through, and they’re in some schools actually, and the teachers say they take a couple of pages at a time, and they talk to their pupils, and they explore different ideas, and they generate conversation, so they’re packed with information, but I’ve kept the language as accessible as I can really.

[Speaker 2] (28:57 – 28:58)
How long does it take for you to put it together?

[Speaker 1] (29:00 – 30:32)
That’s a difficult question, because it was sort of balanced by, I’m on lots of different, I’m working, my attention bounces around all over the place, but in terms of sitting down and focusing, I would say probably two days I could write the content, but that was probably three months of thinking beforehand, so two days of sitting down and pushing and focusing to get it written and created, and then about a month of editing correcting all my mistakes. What about the drawings?

Was it Chris Corley? Yeah, Chris, yeah, he’s phenomenal, I don’t know, he’s got a real gift that I just say, look, I’ve got this idea, and I want to show Arna really struggling with sensory stuff, and he just creates his amazing sort of full-page illustrations, and it’s like magic, my brain could never do that, but it’s like magic, and there’s little tweaks occasionally, so I’ll go, oh, I just need to move that, but generally it’s first time, every time he gets it right first time, and he sends me the whole pile of images, you know, the 50 odd pages, and I put them together and edit, and just make sure the words are correct, and it makes sense, and then I’d like to do it myself, so I sent it off to the printers, I published it, I market it, I sell it, if I talk to you about it. Did you show it to your children? Yeah, the first one is dedicated to them actually, because it’s because of them that I know what I know, and it’s because of them I kind of really appreciate, yeah, just how brilliant they are actually, so yeah, they do, and they’ve got them in, yeah, they’ve looked through them actually, but I think they’re bored of talking about autism with me, to be honest,

[Speaker 2] (30:32 – 31:50)
there she goes again, so one of our charity champions, Beverly, she actually read the book, and she’s starting to do reviews for me, she’s autistic herself, and got other health issues, but she really enjoys reading, and I thought she wrote a really, really good review, so I’m just going to read a little bit about what Beverly said, so she said she loves how it doesn’t just highlight autism in terms of the children diagnosed, but also from the parents’ perspective, the questions they have, how they feel, their worries, anxieties, hopes and dreams for their children. All too often, books focus on the children diagnosed only, explaining what autism means and how it affects the diagnosed person. However, this book is expertly written also from the parents’ perspective, as they navigate their journey from hearing the diagnosis to including life at school.

I also love the way the author manages to convey the unique differences and nuances of how a male and female present. This is so very important and has been cleverly described and illustrated. The words and the illustrations both tell a story, both complementing each other beautifully, and there’s more to this review, so if people are interested and they would like to buy an autism story, Anna and Ruby, they can find it where.

[Speaker 1] (31:51 – 32:14)
There are two books now, we’ve got a second book, and the second book explores much more about Ruby actually and kind of friendships and her challenges there and her vulnerability, but both those books are on my website which is www.helaneaton.co.uk. They are available on the sort of mainstream channels but it’s always a bit more of a bargain if you come to my website than buying through the big guys.

[Speaker 2] (32:15 – 32:19)
Just in case people might have missed that, could you just repeat that and spell Eaton as well?

[Speaker 1] (32:19 – 33:27)
Yeah, www.helaneaton.co.uk. And if people want to follow you on social media, where can they find you? I am on Facebook, I’m Helen Eaton, Autism and Neurodiversity, and Twitter’s a little bit easier, Helen Eaton, A-S-C. Okay, and have you got any more books in the pipeline?

Actually, we are talking at the moment about two books looking at the younger Anna and the younger Ruby and them talking about their experiences, probably they’re probably about eight or ten, so going back a little bit in their lives because they’re teens at the moment, so going back and I think we’re looking at them sort of showing how they feel with their kind of characters around them, I’ll put it that way, but it’s really focusing on them, so that means that younger children will be able to access the stories as well, because I’d say the books are probably age 10, 12 plus, but certainly teens, young adults and adults, they’re brilliant for, but we’re looking at sort of a younger audience now because so many parents come to me and say, how do I talk to my child about autism? Where do I start? What do I say?

[Speaker 2] (33:28 – 33:45)
Now, I was just going to say that’s the question I get all the time. What’s the right age? It’s like you know your child, and I think you probably have a gut instinct of when you feel it’s going to be the right time, so how old was your, did you say both of them have been diagnosed or one?

[Speaker 1] (33:46 – 34:57)
One’s diagnosed now, one we’re looking at, actually one diagnosed themselves, it’s Qasati saying to me, I think I need to speak to someone, because you know, living and breathing, you know all the stuff you talk about in the house, they really started to recognise it themselves, and that was helpful actually for my son. I think we spoke about it very gently, very early on, so six and seven, and not in terms of a medical diagnosis, but of oh okay, that’s interesting, you might be thinking that way, or you might be feeling that way, because you’ve got this type of brain that’s a bit different, we will say it’s not wrong, and it’s just not the majority, so when it’s not the same as everybody else’s, some people struggle to understand it, so your brain works a little bit differently to most people, these are, and constantly we still say, yeah, I recognise, I understand these are things you’re going to find tricky, these are things that are going to be hard, but we do focus on, oh wow, you know, look how brilliant your brain is, and we joke, oh you’ve had a typical brain, you wouldn’t be thinking that, you wouldn’t be doing that, you wouldn’t be winning that, you know, it’s your brain that’s letting you do this amazing stuff, and all the special interests and obsessions they’ve had, you know, we really go, yeah because you’ve got this brilliant brain that can just remember that stuff, that can focus in, and just really specialise.

[Speaker 2] (34:58 – 35:05)
All good stuff, so has he ever spoken about what he’d like to do when he’s an adult, or you know, have you had those conversations?

[Speaker 1] (35:06 – 35:11)
We have a few conversations around you being a YouTuber is not the best choice.

[Speaker 2] (35:12 – 35:15)
Do you know what, some of these YouTubers make a lot of money.

[Speaker 1] (35:16 – 36:01)
I know, I know, I know, but yeah, I talk about the underlying stress and anxiety of being a YouTuber, and actually, you know, at the moment I think it’s an open door, I think they all have so many options, so many opportunities, and actually autistic kids, some of that stuff comes later, you know, for some being independent or being comfortable or safe are the priorities for others, it’s qualifications, career choices, but a lot of that stuff comes later, so we do recognise that some of that stuff, particularly my autistics, might come when he’s older than other people, but we kind of, we just focus on giving him the skills to feel comfortable, safe and independence, you know, get that independence in where we can, and then the careers, yeah, will fall into placement when he’s ready, really.

[Speaker 2] (36:02 – 37:09)
Yeah, there isn’t a perfect age, you know, when do you think you should, I’ve had parents ask me, when do you think you should move out, when do you think you should get a flight? It’s just like, everyone is so different, there isn’t like a golden rule, like, for example, my son Patrick, you know, he’s been working now full time and settled in this new job, he’s finally got a job within the company that, you know, he feels happy with, happy with the people that he’s working with, so now we feel it’s the right time for him to start looking for a place, so we actually went to visit the first place on Saturday, and it was really lovely, but it just wasn’t near public transport, and I said, at first, it’s like, are you saying I can’t have it, and it’s just, then you’ve got to like unpick and just say like, Patrick, where do you work?

There isn’t any buses around here, you don’t drive, it’s going to cause you stress, you know, getting there, and in the winter, it’ll be even worse, you know, and then in the end, he said, oh, you’re right, mum, so we’re looking again, so I thought we’ve broken the ice now, so we’ll keep looking until we find the right place. So, we talked about speaking in schools, what have you learned from other autistic families? So, talk to me a little bit about speaking to different families, what have you learnt yourself?

[Speaker 1] (37:10 – 37:35)
I’ll be very honest, and I don’t cry very often, but when I talk to other families who have autistic children, I do tear up, actually, their stories make me cry, but you know, because I hear that they feel lonely, I feel that they hear misunderstood, they’re confused, because actually, it’s really difficult still to get information that’s helpful, it’s still really tough to know what’s right, and what’s not going to help.

[Speaker 2] (37:35 – 37:41)
And difficult to navigate the system, I think, it’s just so complicated, and almost like a different language.

[Speaker 1] (37:42 – 39:36)
Yeah, because I fit as a parent, and myself and also other parents, you feel as though you have to constantly prove that your child is struggling, is failing, and that you deserve the support, so that they, you know, need it, and it’s a constant gatekeeping process where you’re just having to persuade people and negotiate, but actually, that support usually doesn’t come in until the message is, for many families, or we’ll try this, try that, if that doesn’t work, then we’ll refer you, and then you’ll have a conversation, you’ll speak to the local authority, or the SEND teams, but what that means is, you’re doing stuff to a child that you probably know isn’t going to work in school at home, the child breaks and fails, so the child experiences trauma and failure and distress, because people are just saying, well, we’ve got to try this before we try the next thing, but that could be a term, two terms, a whole academic year sometimes, so they feel as though they’ve got to prove that their child can’t cope with all these things, because of their inherent difficulties, and once that child is broken, distressed, needs mental health support, has maybe developed eating disorders, so many of the complicated things, then people say, oh yeah, you meet the criteria now, let’s have an appointment in three months’ time, so it’s really distressing to talk about that, and maybe it’s hard to listen to, but that’s the reality for so many families, that their children have to break or prove that they can’t cope with what’s on offer, it’s very limited what’s on offer, before somebody agrees, yeah, I can see that hasn’t worked, but that, but you’ve got a child left with trauma, mental health issues, and then that’s affecting their longer term outcomes, so that’s what I hear a lot, but I hear a lot of families who so desperately want to do the best, who love their children, who’s so proud of their children, who just really want to do the best, but have to work a thousand times harder than maybe some other families, just to get the basic rights of an education for their child, and

[Speaker 2] (39:37 – 39:43)
it’s hard enough because of everything that’s been going on in the past with COVID and lockdown and cuts and this and that and the others.

[Speaker 1] (39:44 – 41:12)
Absolutely, there is less money to those services, so I heard of, actually it was an adult diagnostic services, so not out of children’s realm, but they, all of the staff had been diverted to other work due to COVID, so there was no adult diagnostic service available in one area of the country because there were no staff left to run it because of COVID. They’d re-diverted their services, there is a huge impact because the waiting lists were long anyway, there just aren’t people available to deliver the services, and people are off sick themselves, people are working from home, so that can make things more complicated. So it isn’t, I think it’s a very difficult time, if you’re currently seeking support or diagnosis, it’s a very difficult time, but what we have got, got what I always refer families to, is there’s some fantastic autistic people and families and parents and carers, autistic people, you know, like yourself are very honest, who are on social media, who share their experiences, who offer, you know, offer really positive words and offer really positive perspectives, so I always kind of point anybody, any families I speak to say, look, you know, look at the people who are out there, listen to these fantastic people who are, autistic people are kind of advocating for themselves and the community, and I think that’s where we’re kind of getting the joy and the support is from the autistic community and the parents and families around that.

In terms of professional services, it’s a really difficult time right now, and I don’t know how it’s going to get better, I really don’t see how it’s going to get better.

[Speaker 2] (41:12 – 41:23)
What about mental health? What’s your feeling with the services now? It’s obviously harder to try and get mental health services for teenagers, for adults, who are on the spectrum that may need it.

[Speaker 1] (41:24 – 42:33)
So before Covid, we attempted to use the mental health services once for one of our children and there was no value to that, you know, there was a telephone call, yes I understand, I appreciate your consent, however, you know, I think the message I guess your child is not hanging out the window at the moment, they’re not threatening to, you know, to throw themselves out the window, they’re not at immediate risk. Let’s just try, let’s try a few things, see how you get on, so there was no immediate support because it did feel as though that child had to be at that really crucial, that breaking point for anything that happened, and that was a few years ago.

I’m hearing now it is even worse, and that’s why we’re seeing children put into units and adults put into units because they’re at the point where where it’s so difficult to help them, because the difficulties have gone on for so long that they’re just, that the worst case scenario happens and they’re taken away from families for putting units, because it’s been left so long and that support hasn’t been there. Yeah, the early intervention stuff just isn’t there, the early intervention stuff we can do to help support the groups, the funding, it just doesn’t seem to be there.

[Speaker 2] (42:34 – 43:02)
It’s all very, very frustrating, especially when you’re starting on the journey. So, if you had to look back and you’re, obviously, one of your children is on the way to possible diagnosis, but if you didn’t know anything about autism, what advice would you give to a parent that was just starting out on their journey and they think, oh, I’m not sure if my son or my daughter might be on the spectrum, what advice would you give them, you know, especially in the current climate that we’re in?

[Speaker 1] (43:03 – 43:42)
I think firstly, you know, be really proud of your child in the sense that don’t worry about getting a diagnosis or not, or what label they might have attached, look at your child’s needs and if you suspect they’re not developing in a difficult way or you can see they’re struggling with communication or they’re struggling socially or with routine, you know, start that diagnostic, start that process as quickly as you can. Don’t let people tell you, oh, let’s just wait three months, let’s wait a school year, see how they get on.

If you can see they are struggling now, take action now and don’t worry about whatever that diagnosis might be, because it’s still the same child, you’ve just got a bit of paper that will lock a few more doors for you, I guess, hopefully.

[Speaker 2] (43:45 – 43:49)
You get a lot of parents that think, right, I’ve got the diagnosis now, so everything’s going to fall in my lap.

[Speaker 1] (43:49 – 44:02)
No, I could lie, but I won’t. I might be popping a few dream bubbles there, I’m afraid. Sorry, go on.

[Speaker 2] (44:02 – 44:15)
No, no, ask your question, sorry. I was going to say, what do you wish that people knew about autism? Because there’s a lot of negative stuff out there and sometimes the reporters are not the best writers on the right now.

[Speaker 1] (44:15 – 46:04)
An autistic person is a person and an autistic child in the classroom is a child, any child, any person that’s struggling, you would hope that people would listen to them, empathise and appreciate. Yes, there are fixed challenges that are linked to autism, but it’s still a person, they’ve still got their own personality quirks, traits, interests, culture, race, religion, all that stuff still comes along inside. There’s just that different way of processing and functioning in the world is there.

But I really just want to re-humanise autistic people, because I hear very negative language, being autistic is used as an insult, it’s used as a slur, being a kiddo is just a bit of banter, but it’s not, the net term where you’re so autistic is really insulting. So I want to re-humanise, remember, we’ve got people here with different levels of needs and different levels of ability, and actually look at what they can do. Just take them as a person and recognise there’s some things they’re going to find tricky, some things they won’t do the same way as you.

So maybe I’m saying get rid of the judgment, because I find it’s a very judgmental world at the moment, if you don’t fit into certain stereotypes and behaviours, then you might be a bit discarded. So I think it’s just have some empathy, be open minded, be flexible and recognise that if that autistic person is in your classroom, if they’re sitting having a coffee with you, if they’re in a meeting with you in the workplace, they are working their butts off to cope and have some appreciation of how hard they are working to fit into your non-autistic view of the world, how hard they’re working to fit in with your typical demands and your typical requirements. Appreciate that because they are working hard to cope with everything that’s going on around to fit in in a typical world.

[Speaker 2] (46:05 – 46:27)
What’s your opinion on social media? Are your kids on social media? Because obviously there’s a lot of fun that’s going on online at the moment and like really horrendous stuff, you know, these keyboard warriors or they’re creating profiles that are not really them and attacking people.

What advice do you give to your children about social media? And I’m talking about this because I’ve had a few calls from parents who are really worried about what’s happening.

[Speaker 1] (46:28 – 47:31)
I think that I probably get called a little bit strict and my children’s friends might call me quite strict but old-fashioned. I limit it as much as I can. I’ve been very honest and clear and open with them about social media, but I talk about it in terms of, you know, them feeling safe.

My kids are able to understand the risks attached to social media, so how images might be used in the wrong way, how people target them, cyberbullying. I’m able to talk to them about that, whether they listen or not, it’s a different matter, but I do talk to them about it. And I’ve made them perhaps quite nervous of social media, so they are cautious around social media, but are still at risks of being targeted.

And actually my youngest took a break off social media over the summer for her own well-being. She just blocked everyone and everything and then just actually just looked at happy stuff on social media. So followed a few bands, followed a few people and that was it.

And she blocked everyone else and everything else to keep her mentally well over the summer. And it’s frightening, isn’t it? Our kids have to do that, that they have to…

[Speaker 2] (47:31 – 47:37)
We were like adults, you know, I’ve spoken to some adults where they’ve just completely come off social media because they said it’s just too toxic.

[Speaker 1] (47:38 – 47:48)
So distressing. Yeah, I’ve seen some fantastic autistic people who are so open and so helpful on Twitter and Instagram and may have been hounded and chased and had personal threats.

[Speaker 2] (47:49 – 50:05)
Yeah, it’s awful. I just don’t understand why people do that, but well, that’s just the world that we’re living in. I just wanted to share with people, just we spoke very briefly about the postcode funding and the gap identified.

And there’s an interesting article in one of the magazines that was telling me about S.E.N. Magazine and then don’t forget there’s also Autism Eye Magazine, which is very good. So a new report has warned that there is continuing and considerable inequity in the levels of special needs funding for schools going to different parts of the country. The research carried out by Dr. Peter Gray, Dr. Alan Marsh, Dr. Peter Gray, and Professor Brahm, I hope I pronounced that correctly, Norwich, from the University of Exeter, commissioned by the National S.E.N. Policy Research Forum, determined that the significant differences in the budgets given to local areas to fund high special educational needs are largely the result of historical spending arrangements. More worryingly, it’s found that the difference between the highest and the lowest funded authorities had widened this year. Authorities that were relatively well funded historically tended to have a higher percentage of pupils and special needs schools or resource bases.

It’s found that although areas with high level needs attended to get more money, there is considerable variation across the country with significant differences in the public funding for children and young people with special educational needs and disabilities between areas with similar level of need. This means one area with similar social disadvantage can get nearly twice as much as another and some of the highest funded authorities are ones that have relatively lower level of need. The significant variation in the level of high needs block budget allocations to English local authorities range from £798 per 2 to 18 year old resident to £365 with an average of £527.

Reporter author Peter Gray said that the government has put more money into high needs over the last three years but has not taken the opportunity to address these inequities properly. The paper ads, despite the aspirations of the national funding formula to move to fairer distribution, variation was still largely determined by history, which is quite sad really. What do you think of Helen?

[Speaker 1] (50:07 – 50:54)
I just think there’s inequity everywhere and I’m sort of sighing, it just makes me so sad and I think that we are, I think having an autistic child really opened my eyes up to how we’re not particularly actually inclusive in this country, we don’t support disabled community, the funding isn’t there and actually the silly things that people do with systems and processes probably ends up costing the state more almost in terms of ideas and things that happen.

If we just got to the base needs and if we just really looked at it with fresh eyes, I think we could make a real difference to people’s lives rather than everyone having to fight for funding and some people don’t have the voice, don’t have the skills, don’t have the support to fight for that and they or their child get left with nothing and it’s so desperately sad.

[Speaker 2] (50:54 – 51:07)
It is. So what are you thinking for the future for your children like when they get to an adult because obviously it’s a different kettle of fish once you become an adult and the systems that are in place, have you transitioned, have you started planning ahead?

[Speaker 1] (51:08 – 52:40)
I think that I’m really confident they will find success in their own ways, I feel confident that they will do okay but I think it will always be a lifelong challenge, they will always be fighting different systems in different ways and that might be in the workplace, so I do, I have worked in organisations so I’ve worked with IT companies, finance companies, the big retailers, in my leadership work, I’ve gone into the big offices in London, Canary Wharf, Docklands and I know my kids in the workplace are going to have another battle on their hands in terms of getting adjustments, getting support and being able to work to their potential without being bound by a necessary kind of processes and rules, so I think there will be a lifelong struggle for them and ultimately they do communicate in a slightly, in a non-typical way, they do experience anxiety more than other people, they struggle with that emotional regulation at times and as brilliant as quirk and amazing as they are, I know it is always going to be harder for them even though they are kids who are articulate and bright, those underlying differences in their brains and society’s lack of tolerance around that and how they behave a little bit differently, I hope it’s going to be better but I’m trying to equip them in ways that the parents don’t have to equip their kids about the challenges they might face, I mean I’ve talked to them about resilience, I’ve talked to them about feeling strong, how to feel confident, getting independent skills, getting good routines that help them, I’m working so hard on all that stuff because I know it is always going to be difficult, it is always going to be challenging.

[Speaker 2] (52:41 – 52:50)
So what are they like, because obviously you’ve got, what’s the age difference between them, so how are they together, can you see them sort of supporting each other as they get older or? I hope so,

[Speaker 1] (52:51 – 53:50)
my eldest is very steady, my other two are a little bit more drama queens, they are really kind of, they’re both performers actually, they’re both kind of performing in different ways, I think they really do care for each other, I think sometimes they get fed up because one gets away with that and the other one doesn’t and one’s expected to do this, there’s always that thing with siblings and they do struggle and particularly for my one that was diagnosed did take up, when he was younger took up far more time, in some evenings I would say look I can’t, I know I can’t sit and watch that movie because I’ve got to fill in this form, I’ve got to fill in this form, I’ve got to go, I went to tribunal, I’ve got to fill in all the paperwork for tribunal, so they certainly once and in a ways had more time, I think I hope moving forwards actually that they will stick together, I think because we do everything together as a family so I hope those kind of principles are there, but they’ve got their own personalities and they’re very different, that’s what I’m being optimistic about.

[Speaker 2] (53:51 – 54:12)
I’ve had quite a few families as well, this has gone on throughout the years about what happens after school, like after school clubs or other interests, what type of things do your children do or what type of things have you seen other families, because there is quite hard sometimes to try and find things to do out of school hours.

[Speaker 1] (54:12 – 55:33)
It’s very difficult and if anything’s sort of got sort of labeled as for children with additional needs, you know it’s underfunded and a thousand and one people on the waiting list, it has taken a lot of persistence, a lot of commitment for myself and my husband actually and we’ve both worked together really hard to get my kids doing a physical activity each week and something they enjoy each week, so from one of mine that’s performing, for another one it’s been part of the cadets and Kung Fu, Kung Fu, we have a fantastic supportive Kung Fu club locally actually that much is good for us. Fantastic and I’ve been so grateful, my eldest has been attending since he was five, it’s so open and embracing and actually they do have quite a few autistic members as adults and children, but we have to get them to do that though, it is about you know finding ways for them to access it and they might have argued and hated it and not wanted to go, but we’ve always checked that they’ve enjoyed it, if we can see they enjoy it, each week we plan it, it’s part of the routine, we enable them to get there, we make sure they feel comfortable, we get them home, so we work really hard to make sure that they do that stuff because they have the, you know, they want to do stuff but it’s difficult, so yeah, but as parents again you know we just, we enable it, so we just enable that to happen as much as possible because I think that’s so important.

[Speaker 2] (55:34 – 56:04)
So you’ve talked about being a parent, you’ve talked about being a teacher and a speaker, so what do you do to relax? Because obviously I’m always, I used to be very rubbish at it, but after always talking about taking five, taking time out, so we don’t burn out, hence why we now have a well-being ambassador within the charity and we have a section in the charity on the charity website talking about different things that you can do for well-being, so what do you do to recharge your battery to make sure that you don’t burn out? And I know it’s hard.

[Speaker 1] (56:04 – 57:53)
No, I think having a child diagnosed with autism and understanding autism actually made me look at myself and where I perhaps might be autistic or might have different needs and I was very honest about that, so what that has taught me is that I need to manage myself to be able to support other people and the way I do that is actually I reduce the social pressure a lot on myself, so I’m very fortunate I can work at home a lot. I don’t do all the social things and I don’t meet other people’s social expectations, I don’t worry about fitting in or following the right things, I do things my own way but I make sure that each week I have time for myself and by time to myself I mean there’s no demands, there’s just time in the week when nobody wants anything, when nobody asks me anything and it might be an hour.

Put yourself in a box and close the lid. Do you know what, again another tip I say is to be very open about how you feel, mine are teenagers and my husband I say right now I’m overwhelmed, this is too much, give me an hour, give me 30 minutes, I’ll come back and I’ll be fine and I might just browse through the news, I might binge on Netflix, I might eat a tub of ice cream, I don’t know whatever, I might go and just do a couple of back stretches so my back feels more comfortable but it’s a time where nobody wants anything and nobody’s asking me anything and so I think being honest when I’m tired, I’m honest when something is too much and I look at what I’ve got to do and I drop stuff, if it’s too much the stuff that isn’t important that doesn’t matter, I don’t do. I’ll let you into a secret, I haven’t ironed anything in my house for 20 years because it’s just freed up my time and it’s the simplest thing like that so I just look at what’s important, what’s not important, was ironing important? No I stopped doing it.

[Speaker 2] (57:54 – 58:02)
What I do is I wash them, I fold them, I put them in the cupboard and then if something needs ironing when I’m going to put it on or whoever it’s for then I’ll iron it then that’s it.

[Speaker 1] (58:03 – 58:31)
Yeah and you know it’s about enjoying and celebrating the small stuff, the smallest victories, the smallest successes, just every day finding something I’m really happy and grateful for and at the end of the day remembering that and I think I just put my head into a positive mindset. That was difficult but right now I’m watching my favourite TV show, right now I’m doing a puzzle with the kids, right now we’re on a walk by canal and I just celebrate the good stuff and then I’m better prepared to deal with the harder stuff.

[Speaker 2] (58:32 – 58:40)
We’re coming to the end now Helen, it’s been a pleasure talking to you so if people want to buy your book just quickly where can they find you just in case they didn’t pick it up before?

[Speaker 1] (58:41 – 59:07)
Yep you can find lots of information actually links to the podcasts and the books and the training courses I run in the evenings as well and you can see all of those www.helaneaton so Eton is E-A-T-O-N www.helaneaton.co.uk Oh brilliant and if they want to find you, is it Facebook that you’ve got a link? Yeah Facebook I’m Helen Eaton Autism and Neurodiversity and also Twitter and Helen Eaton A-S-C.

[Speaker 2] (59:08 – 59:55)
Oh thank you and again if people want to contact me or they might like to be a speaker on the program, please contact me via the charity website it’s www.annaKennedyonline.com and you can see our resources page, we have latest news page, the events page so everything I’ve been talking about Autism’s Got Talent, the Hero Awards, all of that our workshops they’re all on the charity website so please keep checking it out and please keep supporting the work that we do because there’s a lot of charities that have actually closed down because they haven’t got the funding but once again Helen thank you so much for talking to me I really enjoyed chatting to you keep safe keep going and keep doing what you do. Thank you so much it was an absolute pleasure to chat.

Oh thank you thanks everyone take care, bye.