[Speaker 1] (0:00 - 8:35) Hello, this is Anna Kennedy and we're live at Covent Gardens. We're talking all things autism and my guest today is Gemma Ryan. Before I go over to Gemma, I'll just give you a little bit of feedback what I'm going to be up to this week. Well, we're off to the Senn National Crisis March, which is happening all across the country. I can't believe the support, Nadia and Poppy and all the mums who have organized this across the country. It's only a few days to go, so there's going to be speakers, there's going to be walks. It's all going to be very peaceful that people are going to be talking about the difficulties that families are experiencing because of the Senn National Crisis. So that's going to be happening in Parliament Square on Thursday and they're going to tend down in Street to give the petition, which I believe has got about 13,000 signatures at the moment. And then everybody's going to be walking to Parliament Square where I'm going to be one of the speakers. Sienna is going to be one of our speakers and I'm taking two of our Autisms Got Talent performers with me, Macaulay Elvin and Marie Gorton, who are going to be singing for everyone. So talking about performing arts, Gemma is a mum to a young lady who I know very well, Sophia, who goes to Pineapple Performing Arts because she got a scholarship through our charity. So Gemma is aged 36 years old. She's married to Tim for 15 years and I believe they're going to be celebrating their wedding anniversary very soon. And they've got five children, five children, so definitely a busy house. And she was diagnosed at the age of 27 with an autism spectrum condition and her three older children have diagnosis of autism and ADHD. Welcome to you, Gemma. Thank you very much for coming along to Covent Garden. We've had a little chat, haven't we, beforehand. We've had a coffee. So talk to me a little bit about you're a mum of five children. You don't look like you're a mum of five children. You look really, really young. You keep really well. So they're obviously keeping you on your toes. They certainly are, yes. So tell me a little bit about your five children. What are their names? How old are they? My oldest is Tyler. He's 16. He was diagnosed at the age of five. But we were going through the process through nursery from the health visit. They picked him up. So yes. And then I've got Finley who's 15. He has a diagnosis of Aspergis and ADHD. He was diagnosed at seven. And then I've got Sophia. She is 11. She has a diagnosis of Aspergis and ADHD as well. And she was diagnosed just before she was six. And then I've got Kyron who is six and Edie Rose who is three. So what's life like at home with five children? It's busy. I say the youngest one keeps us on our toes. She's definitely the one who rules a roost. And yeah, you know, we take each day as it comes because you just don't know what day is going to be like. But yeah, they keep me on my toes. So what they're like together, they're quite close, would you say? The older two are close. They're only 17 months apart. So I'd say the second one helped the oldest one through growing up because the oldest one didn't speak till he was about four. So when Finley started speaking, Tyler started speaking. And yeah, they just got that great bond. And yeah, they all get on. They all have their moments. And they all need their own time. So now having to separate rooms now because the oldest one's getting older. So yeah, they need their space. So what was diagnosis like in the area that where you live? I believe it's North Hamptonshire. It is. Is there a long waiting list, would you say? Back when we got the oldest three diagnosed, we were really, really lucky and had a lot of support. And yeah, it didn't really take long with the old ones. But speaking to people now, it's quite a long way. Some people in the North Hamptonshire area with the ADOS and that aren't able to get any because there's just not anyone to be able to do it and funding. So it does is the diagnosis process for people listening in that never heard of it before. But even getting on the process of it all, there's such a long way to even get support and everything with it. So yeah, I was lucky then, but I may be going through it with my fourth child, Kyren. So we're in the early process of it. And yeah, I think we're gonna have a long fight with him. Okay, yeah. So you need to put your body armour on, I think, and try and get the support for him because obviously early intervention is crucial for our children. I believe you have a diagnosis yourself and you were diagnosed, was it at the age of 26? 27, yeah. So what made you go for a diagnosis? I think with the older three, looking at them and then realising that a lot of them, well, how I was when I was younger and also my mum, she was the one that put me to go through it. Okay, so you noticed the traits within your children. So what sort of things did you notice that you think, oh, that sounds like me? Just the crowds. Found it difficult? Yeah, found it difficult. Change. I did find a lot with change. I struggled with. And I also went on a reflection course. What's that? It was a course with autism, about autism and that. And this was when Tyler was diagnosed and we weren't sure what autism was back then. And my health was there, put us on this course and it was about autism. And when they were talking, it was everything that Tyler was. And then listening to that, it's had me in it as well. So yeah, so I went through that. And yeah, do you think you've benefited? Can I just ask you, do you think you've benefited from having a diagnosis? Because I've spoken to many adults where they've got the diagnosis and they feel that it hasn't benefited them whatsoever. They feel like they're being discriminated against within their workplace. Then you have others that say, I'm glad I've got the diagnosis because I feel like a big weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Some of them have gone to the GP and said, I feel I might be on the spectrum. They might be in their twenties, their thirties, their forties. And then some of the GPs have said, why do you want to label? Why do you think you need it? You know, you've basically come this far. So why do you feel that you need to go through the diagnosis process? I think I did it more for myself as well, but I kept it quiet. I've only just come out to people. Okay. So that's very brave of you. Then you kept it for all these years. And now you're going live with it if you like. Definitely. So I sort of announced it on Facebook a few weeks ago. And yeah, friends, no one knew apart from my mum. And so what's the feedback been like? Great. Oh, that's good. Absolutely great. But some people are like, Oh, we didn't even, wouldn't even know that you had it. And you know, yeah, I've been very lucky. You have been lucky. Because I spoke to some individuals where they've shared that they've got a diagnosis. They've kept it quiet for a while. And then some of their friends, they might have lost them or the friends. And for me, I say if they lose them, they're not real friends. That's the way I look at it. So I think you're very brave to obviously share it with everybody. And it's just like you haven't changed. You're still the same person. Yeah, I'm not saying my friends have been fantastic. But obviously growing up, I've had friends in and out, you know, not, I've not coped with certain people because I don't like things that they're doing or vice versa. They don't like what I'm doing. So I could be a bit too much. So yeah, but no, the friends support I've got now. It's just been amazing. Obviously within like the circles that we move now within pineapple and the charity, obviously speaking to people who know what you're going through. So how was it for your children? Did you tell them straight away? No, you didn't know. No, they didn't know until a couple of weeks. [Speaker 2] (8:35 - 8:36) Oh, didn't they? [Speaker 1] (8:36 - 13:30) Oh, wow. No. So what did they say? I showed them what I put on my Facebook and that and yeah, the oldest one was, he was very shocked. He was like, wow, I didn't know you went through all that. And Sophia was very supportive. She gave me a big hug and said, I love you, Mommy. Yeah, Sophia's lovely. She is. So yeah, no, I think it's nice because they know that I've got it. So they don't feel different as such. And the odd ones out because sometimes I think Sophia feels like she does feel like she's the odd one out at times. So how did you cope at school? Yeah, I had my good times and bad times. What about the school work? Hard. Yeah. Teachers didn't get me. There was no support whatsoever back then to what there is now. I was put back at the class because I was classed as a naughty child with, couldn't concentrate. And then with getting older, going into school, I would sort of walk out. I'd go to my registration and I'd walk out and I would always go to this safe place by the river. And my mom would get the phone call and she always knew where I was. So yeah, I did struggle very much at school. So yeah. Got any brothers or sisters? I have an older brother. How did you get on with him? Well, we have our moments, but yeah, we don't see a lot of each other. So when you were in school, did you know of any other children that might have been diagnosed with autism or early HD? No. Or seen a little bit quirky? No, I didn't. No. I've spoken to quite a few children that have come to Autism's Got Talent that when they've been to the show, they've never ever met other children or adults that are autistic. And then when they're at the show, they're a little bit apprehensive if you like, but then they feel like they just fit in. You know, I've just been speaking to Matthew and Callum, who were the rappers. And they said the first time they went to Autism's Got Talent, they said it was the first time in all these years, he's 36, 37 now, that he felt like he fitted in. So yeah, I just find that amazing that, you know, they never ever met any other people that were autistic, like Ryan, who's one of my charity patrons, he was 12 when he came to us at Autism's Got Talent. Again, he never met any other person. Yeah, I just find that quite strange. But so we're going to be talking a little bit more, if you don't mind, about your family and about relationships, because, you know, there's a lot of adults out there that find it difficult with relationships. So if you don't mind, I'd like to chat to you about that, you know, with your husband, you're celebrating 15 years, which is lovely. So congratulations for that. So if anyone else is interested in talking to me about Autism, about Asperger's syndrome, please contact me on the charity website. It's www.annakennedyonline.com. Or you can contact me via social media, which is at Anna Kennedy One, which is Twitter at Anna Kennedy OBE, which is Instagram and Anna Kennedy Online, which is Facebook. Or you can contact us through the Women's Radio Station website, which is www.womensradiostation.com. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello, and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stepania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello, and welcome to June May is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Farguni Desai of Action Coach. Are you a business owner with more than five employees? Do you want to grow your business? I'm a London-based business coach who helps small and medium-sized businesses to grow and make a profit. I will help you identify the strengths and weaknesses in your business and then work with you to improve it using a structured framework. To find out more, contact me on 07721 654 640 and book your one-hour complementary one-to-one coaching session. Thank you. Hi, I'm Tracy Whedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award-winning family-run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products, ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth, and fine art. You can contact us on 0208 658 4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free, no-obligation, quotation. At Brownhills, we've got you covered. [Speaker 2] (13:31 - 14:25) Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chapter authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters at womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbachi, and I'm the executive director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth and mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own, and share information. [Speaker 1] (14:25 - 20:31) To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website at mediamattersforwomen.org. You're listening to Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station, that's Women's Radio STN, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're talking all things autism. We're live in Covent Garden. My guest today is Gemma Ryan. Before I go over to Gemma, I was doing a little bit of research when I'm preparing for my speech for Thursday, and I was looking at the change in face of special educational needs and disability. And what I was reading about was it said that it's been well over 100 years since local authorities were first given the power to create and make a provision for what our children used to be called. Now listen to this, our children used to be called defective children, unbelievable. They either was establishing special classes in schools, or by finding other bodies such as charities supporting children with a disability. And at that time, if their families couldn't look after them, they'd have to go into homes run by charities, or in the worst cases, they were sadly sent to work houses, asylums, and very worst cases, fending for themselves on the streets and begging. I can't even get my head around that. And in 1914, it became the LEA's duty, the Local Education Authority's duty, to create and make a provision for then at that time called Mentally Defective Children. Oh my god, if anyone said that to me about my kids, they would be, I don't know where they'd be. And in 1918, it was extended to include physically disabled and epileptic children. And after 1921, it was then the LEA's duty to identify disabled children, but they had to ensure that they provided them with education until they reached 16, a full two years more than most children. So it must have been at that time that kids basically went to school until they were 14, unless they had special educational needs, unless I read that incorrectly. So Gemma, thank you again for coming, and thank you for sharing about you having your diagnosis. Tell me a little bit more about how you coped in school and how your children cope in school, and what provision does the school put in place to help them make the national curriculum relevant and meaningful for them? Because a lot of the time, kids are taught subjects, and it just goes over the top of the head because it's not written in such a way or taught in such a way that it means something. So do they get speech and language therapy? Charlie did start with, because he had very minimal speech. And I think he stopped that when he was about 10. Was that weekly, monthly? Started off weekly, and then it gradually went longer. Yes, a lot of health authorities only give six or seven sessions, and then that's about it. Then for me, it's like autism was a lifelong disability, so they would need regular. So for me, that's like weekly or even daily. So we didn't even know he was took off it. Okay. So they just took it away without telling it. They just took it away, and then it was only when we went to the review meeting, and they weren't there, that we were told. That's not very good. What about occupational therapy? Anything for your kids? Tyler, because he had bowel problems growing up. So he had to have massage, and so he had that through until he was 13. And he had to have pads, I think. So yeah, we had good support with that. Finley and Sophia never had OT. Did they get one-to-one support in the classroom? Yes. Tyler, they're all at special schools. So they're in a class of, Tyler's in the class of four, and Sophia and Finley are in a class of eight, and they have two helpers in with the class. So what did they find difficult at school? So did they go to mainstream first, and then they were transferred to a special education? Tyler always went to a special school. So he went to normal nursery, and then he ended up going into a DSP to start with. What's a DSP? That's a designated special unit. So it's mainstream with Lachananix sort of single-class room. So you were attached to the school? Yeah. And then he went on to the special school. Sophia started off in mainstream, and then in year one, that's when she sort of fell and weren't able to cope. So before I diagnosed her, she started off in the DSP. And yeah, she's such an articulate young girl. She loves dance, and you can clearly see that she loves performing arts. You can see she's clearly comfortable in what she's doing. So Sophia has got a pineapple performing arts scholarship, and how long has she been going now? This will be her second year. Yeah, so that was through the charity. So we're so lucky that Pineapple Dance Studio and through Pineapple Performing Arts, they've given us nine scholarships, and we've got one as well with Chris Maloney Academy in Liverpool, where Andrea, who's another one of our Ottons, has got talent performances doing so well. And I've just seen some recent photographs where he's been promoting neurodiversity. So his mum's really proud of him. So obviously settling in there. So she's been going for a year now. So what sort of things does she do at Pineapple Performing Arts? Because she always looks so happy when I see her, when I've been to the studio. [Speaker 2] (20:31 - 20:32) She loves it. [Speaker 1] (20:32 - 21:26) It's really been a life-changing experience for her. She does all sorts. She's doing contemporary at the minute. She was doing Street. She's now starting contemporary class, and she does drama and singing. Okay. So what's her voice like? I haven't heard her sing. Yeah, she's all bad. Sometimes she can go off key, bless her. Yeah, but I think it's a big learning curve for her as well, isn't it? Yeah, no, she absolutely, it has. It's seeing her, and she actually come out last week and said, I absolutely loved all my lessons. Oh, that's lovely to hear. And just, yeah, it does. I mean, it has. It's been a life-changing experience for her and me, because as I say, I've met some lovely people that are going to be lifelong friends now. Yeah, they recently performed at Autumn's Got Talent at the Mermaid Theatre in London, and they did a fantastic number, didn't they? [Speaker 2] (21:26 - 21:26) Amazing. [Speaker 1] (21:27 - 22:26) Queen, it was Bohemian Rhapsody, and then they did It Must Be Mad Jake, and they did a routine with me as well. So it was just, they were amazing. And she's going to be performing on her own now, which is a big step for Sophia. Definitely. She's going to St. Ives, so we're going to be performing at the Kids Are Us Theatre. So Phil, who's one of my friends, who I met on The People Strictly, we took some of our performers to his theatre last year at St. Ives, and they were so bowled over with what the children and adults were doing that they've invited us back. So not long to go, about five weeks, I think, that we're going. So what's she going to be doing? She is going to do a contemporary routine to Louis Capaldi, Someone You Loved. Wow. And I believe she's going to be making the routine up as well. She is. She is, yeah. So it's her dances. She usually has a beginning, a sort of middle, and an end. But yeah, it will never be the same. So every time she will do her. So it's the way she feels? Yes. Yeah. So that's what contemporary's about, isn't it? [Speaker 2] (22:26 - 22:26) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (22:26 - 23:18) So it shows, now I'm really looking forward to that. So I'm excited. And obviously, it's something that she's created herself. So that will boost her confidence as well once she's performed. So that's not long to go. So we'll be sharing that hopefully on YouTube or on the charity website. So that's exciting. So can you talk to me a little bit more about your relationship if you don't mind? Because then obviously my son Patrick is 29 and he's looking to get a long term girlfriend, which is what all our children and adults want. They want relationships. They want to get married, some of them. Some of them, you know, they want to get their own home. They want to get employment. So how, how, what's the secret of being married for 15 years? You must have a, do you have a very supportive husband? He's so supportive. He really is. Um, I mean, we met when I was, how old was I? 18. [Speaker 2] (23:19 - 23:20) You don't look that much older now. [Speaker 1] (23:22 - 24:13) And he, yeah, he's just been absolutely amazing. We've had our ups and downs as all relationships do. Um, and I think it's been a learning curve for both of us because I can detach quite easily from people. And, um, I did try and do that quite a lot. Okay. But he just, uh, yeah, he just stopped by me. Okay. That's a good, good man. Yeah. I think talking is a good thing, which I've always struggled to do with talking. Um, but as the years have gone on, I'm starting to learn that talking does help and not shut myself away, which I did used to do quite a lot. Um, so how did he feel about your growth for the diagnosis? Very supportive. Did he come with you? No, my mum come with us. [Speaker 2] (24:13 - 24:13) Okay. [Speaker 1] (24:14 - 27:31) Um, yeah, I think he knew deep down with obviously the children and then seeing how I am as well. Yeah. Um, yeah. He knew so well. So did he find, can I ask, um, did he find diagnosis of your children difficult because I know that when both my sons were diagnosed, my husband, I would probably say my Patrick, when he was diagnosed, he found that difficult. Obviously it was our first son. We'd been through a difficult time with him because he was premature. Um, he was 11 weeks premature and he had quite a tough first three years. So we thought that the difficulties that he was having was because of him being premature, having to go in out of hospital. He seemed to pick up anything that was going. Um, and then once he was given the diagnosis, my husband went quite quiet for quite a few weeks, but then, um, obviously supportive now, but it's just, I think sometimes it's just getting your head around it if you like. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. He didn't, um, he didn't take too well to my first child being diagnosed. Um, he shut himself away, blamed himself. And we thought, cause he had strep B as a baby and he was quite poorly. We didn't know whether to start with that was what caused him to have it. Um, yeah, no, as the other two, he's been really supportive for the other two, but yeah, he did struggle. He wouldn't come to any meetings with me. He said he knew his own child and didn't have to listen to what anybody else had to say. Um, so yeah, it's been tough for him. I think the assessments, when you have to go to all these various different assessments and for your child, it is quite tough to go through. And it's the questioning, it's the tick box. It's like going through the history. It is hard. And I, I know I, when I used to go with my both my sons, I used to feel completely drained when I went home. And sometimes I might even like go into the toilet and have a little cry to myself. And do you know what? There's no one to blame. They've still the same children. They've never changed. It's just that they've got a diagnosis. And sometimes you have to have the diagnosis for them to get the right support in place. And people tend to think that the support is just going to fall in your lap. It just doesn't work like that. Yeah. So we're going to be talking a little bit more about, um, mental health. If you don't mind, because obviously this is a program about wellbeing for women. So again, um, if you're interested and you would like to be one of our speakers on the show, please contact me on Anna Kennedy online, or you can contact me or share information via social media. So again, it's Anna Kennedy, one on Twitter, Anna Kennedy OBE on Instagram and Anna Kennedy online on Facebook. And Gemma, are you on Facebook? Anyone wants to ask you a question? Yes, I am. Yeah. Gemma Owens. So Gemma, Gemma. Okay. So Gemma Owens, um, that's going to be on. Welcome to the women's radio station, supporting women's wellbeing. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's wellbeing. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website, women'sradiostation.com for more information. [Speaker 2] (27:33 - 28:06) Hi, I'm Liz Van Linden, the UK travel consultant for Hazelmere Travel. People come to me as they want unique experiences and a personalized service. This happens from the moment that they inquire until they come back home. I work with luxury tour operators. You can contact me on 07825-44-1212 and Liz spelled L-I-S at hazelmeretravel.co.uk. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrage. [Speaker 1] (28:06 - 29:03) When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don't know where to start. At empowerandenrich.org, you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Hi, I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women's Radio Station. It's Mother's Hour. 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[Speaker 1] (29:41 - 35:42) Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programmes. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com. Women's Radio Station supporting women's wellbeing. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy and we're talking all things autism. We're live in Covent Garden and my guest today is Gemma Owen. I did say Gemma Ryan, but that used to be one of Angelo's teaching assistants, so I apologise for that Gemma. I just wanted to talk to you about something I saw on Twitter yesterday. It was about a young lad. He's just been working in Clark's on Saturdays and he saw a mum with her son who were finding it difficult to come through the door because I remember those days when my sons, Patrick and Angelo, had to go for new shoes. I couldn't get them through the door. It was so stressful, but this young man saw what was happening outside. Nobody told him to do it. He just went out and said, is there anything I can do to help? So what he did was he actually brought the shoes out to the mum and the daughter outside the shop until she was able to come in. And I just thought, what a lovely thing to do. And he's just someone so young that basically saw what was happening and he did something so special. And she shared it on Twitter and it's had something like thousands of views. And I said to her, I just said, that was just a lovely thing to do. So more sales assistants doing that for our children, please, because I don't think you realise how difficult it is for families who've got children or adults who are on the spectrum walking around shops, the sensory overload that you have there, the sounds, the smells, the lights flickering. It just can be very, very difficult. It took me such a long time to get Angelo when he was younger, just to go around the town. I had to park my car as close to the shops as I possibly could. And then I would get him out the car slowly and we might just do a few steps and then I'd go back in the car again. And it took us quite some time just to get him around the town. And then as soon as he heard a motorbike that might be going down the street, he'd just sit on the pavement, put his hands over his ears and home loudly because he found that very, very difficult. So something that might help shops, it might help with training, which we've been using and our charity is in collaboration with is the Autism Reality Experience. And basically what it is, if you experience what it's like to have a sensory overload until you've been in that experience, you don't really know what it's like. So we've been working with Training to Care and the Autism Reality Experience. We've taken it to the first responders. We've taken it to Heathrow Airport and it's really opened people's eyes. It's also opened eyes of families that have gone through the experience themselves. And they say, right now I know what my son is going through. So if you're interested, please check it out. It's called Training to Care, the Autism Reality Experience and they travel across the country. So that's just something that I wanted to share. So Gemma, thank you again for coming to chat to me. I just wanted to chat to you a little bit about mental health issues and how did it affect you maybe growing up with your own mental health that you said you had a safe place to go to when you felt you were overwhelmed. So if you don't mind chatting about that. Yeah, when everything used to get on top of me, I did used to run away quite a lot. And I would say there was a particular spot that I always used to go to, which my mum would always know and find. And then as I got older, I did struggle. Also when the family break up with my mum and dad, I didn't cope with that at all. And I ended up self-harming and also taking an overdose. So yeah, I don't know. It's just, did you go to counselling? I did go to counselling. Did it work? No. I've spoken to so many people where they've gone to counselling. It's got to be the right counsellor for you. Definitely. I just I felt that I didn't get anywhere with talking. So how did you get through it? What worked for you? I think just talking, like I say, I did end up talking. I went to support groups. Okay. Could you talk to your mum? I did and I didn't. Something must have been difficult. It was very difficult because of the situation. My, my person I went to was Monann. Okay. She was my safe person, definitely. And I could tell her anything. And yeah, no, I have spoken to quite a few people where they've gone to extended family where it might be their Nana or it might be their granddad. I didn't have Nana's and granddad's because they died before I got to know them. So my safe person when I was going through the whole thing was a lady called Auntie Zeta. And I met her when I was working at Sanderson's, which is a textile manufacturers. And that was at the time when I was going through with Patrick and Angelo, and she didn't have any children. And she said that I was the daughter she never had. So how we got to meet was I used to see her walking and she used to walk really fast down the lane. And then I realised she lived quite close to me. So I said, Oh, would you like me to give you a lift? So that's how we got chatting. And then she used to ring me every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday at quarter to six and just chat to me. And like if I was feeling down or because I felt that because I had moved away from home and I was living in London. I didn't know anyone. So that's and I used to chat to her. So when I lost her a few years ago, I felt like I lost my left arm because I just felt even though I could speak to my mum, but it was different. [Speaker 2] (35:43 - 35:43) Yeah, definitely. [Speaker 1] (35:43 - 36:29) It's just like you can talk freely, you know what I mean? To like somebody. Yes, she was lovely. So I do miss Auntie Zeta. So you had your nan to talk to. I had my nan and then also was having Tyler, I ended up having postnatal depression as well. So that wasn't picked up until six months after. Yeah, I really shut down. I didn't have much to do with Tyler. How did your husband cope with that? Not brilliant. I think he struggled as well because newborn, tiredness, because he did not sleep. All he'd done was cry and sleep. That's a big thing, isn't it? [Speaker 2] (36:30 - 36:30) Definitely. [Speaker 1] (36:31 - 37:01) And then obviously then me shutting down and I didn't talk. I just shut myself away or just walk out. And then, yeah, I did actually go to a counsellor then who actually was sort of been through what I'd actually been through. And yeah, we're connected. Good. And I didn't realise, I was like, yeah, I'm sort of getting somewhere. So how long did that take before you, if you don't mind me asking, but that you pointed with your son. [Speaker 2] (37:01 - 37:01) A year and a half. [Speaker 1] (37:02 - 37:28) Okay, that must have been hard. Yeah, because even Finley then, I weren't very good with him either, because I fell pregnant quite quickly again after Tyler. So yeah, I did struggle. You felt a bit felt overwhelmed. I felt like a failure. Okay. I did feel like a failure because, you know, I was supposed to be a new mum and enjoying all these things. It doesn't work like that, doesn't it? [Speaker 2] (37:28 - 37:28) It doesn't work. [Speaker 1] (37:28 - 37:30) It's not old roses and wonderful, is it? [Speaker 2] (37:30 - 37:30) No. [Speaker 1] (37:30 - 43:30) It's just like everyone takes to it differently. And you know, and I was settling them and they'd just cry and I'd feed them and they'd just cry. And I just didn't feel like I could do it. Yeah. And so, yeah, but obviously Sophia was different. I felt more prepared and better in myself because I was taking medication to help me. And so, yeah, she was definitely different. And I felt that I bonded with her better than I did with the other two. And I think I've always got that guilt with the older two, because I didn't feel like I had that bond with them. But don't beat yourself up about it. It's just that's the way it was. And obviously you were dealing with stuff yourself. So yeah, you're a great mum. You've got five children, that sort of. So let's talk about working. So were you working at the time? Were you juggling all those sorts of things? Yeah, I have had jobs on and off. And again, I didn't hold out jobs a lot. I used to struggle quite a lot. What type of work did you do? I've done quite a few different ones. I've done Toys R Us, which I did actually quite enjoy Toys R Us. I've worked in a care home. How did you find that? Overwhelming. Yeah, I didn't struggle. Sorry, I struggled quite a lot. Yes, I don't know if I could go back to working in a care home again. Was that for children or elderly? Elderly, yeah. Maybe elderly. I've worked, what else have I done? I've worked as a receptionist, which I find I'm better on my own. Okay. And then working with people. Oh, okay. We got a dream job that you would think, oh, I'd really like to do that. Midwife. Would you? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Why didn't you do that? Because I don't feel like I'm able, because I'm not good with written work. Yeah, but you can get help now these days. I think that's what's always put me off. Practical, I can do. But that's always what put me off is the written work. Because come to it, I just, my mind just goes. I've spoken to a few young women who are on the spectrum, but they're getting support because they wanted to be a nurse. Not midwifery, but they wanted to be a nurse. So it might have taken them a little bit longer, but they've got the extra support. So it might be something for you to look into for the future. I never say never. I always say never say never. Never give up. My motto is you can either give in, give up, or give it all you've got, and then some. And that's what I've had to do, because it's been a difficult journey for myself as well. And I've had all these new experiences. I've never set up a school before. I've never set up a college, or a charity, or autism's got talent. But there's ways that you just need people to support you in certain areas that you might not be so good at. And you can navigate the way. And I always say, there's always a way. You can always find something. So never say never. It might be something that you can do. So we've talked a little bit about you coping with being a mother and an adult. Are there any tips that you would give to somebody that was on the spectrum that you would say? Um, oh, I'm glad you care. Yeah, just, I think, just get help. Yeah, you know, as much as it's hard for, there's not a lot around at the minute. Just talk as well. I found talking, and then with people finding out, and they're helping you to go to the people. Yeah, I think the big thing is to find a support group, find a friend, find someone who you can feel safe with, and it's a safe space for you to chat. I know I went to counseling quite a few years ago. It just didn't work for me. I just couldn't talk. I remember sitting in the corner with my legs crossed and my arms folded, thinking, I'm not talking to you. It's just like, I just didn't gel with a person. And I just thought, and then I never went back. And it's, I think sort of dance helped me. It's just like a big stress buster. I just think, find whatever works for you. So I'm going to be chatting in the next quarter. I can't believe it's just gone so quickly. So again, if you want to be one of my speakers, please contact us through the charity website. It's www.annakennedyonline.com. And we're going to be writing an article about today's interview. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello, and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stepania Passamante on Women's Radio Station. Hello, and welcome to June May is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's wellbeing, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Farguni Desai of Action Coach. Are you a business owner with more than five employees? Do you want to grow your business? I'm a London-based business coach who helps small and medium-sized businesses to grow and make a profit. I will help you identify the strengths and weaknesses in your business and then work with you to improve it using a structured framework. To find out more, contact me on 077-721-654-640 and book your one-hour complementary one-to-one coaching session. Thank you. Hi, I'm Tracey Weeden of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award-winning family-run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth and fine art. You can contact us on 0208-658-4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no-obligation quotation. At Brownhills, we've got you covered. [Speaker 2] (43:59 - 44:25) Hi, I'm Valentina Barbachi and I'm the executive director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo. And we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth and mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. [Speaker 1] (44:25 - 50:21) To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website at www.mediamattersforwomen.org. You're listening to Women's Radio Station supporting women's wellbeing. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station, that's Women's Radio STN or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy and we're live in Covent Garden and we're talking all things autism. Just before I go back over to Gemma, just to remind you of the Send National Crisis or check out on Facebook Send National Crisis to see if there's any marches in your area. Why we're marching is funding is in crisis. The funding gap for high needs special educational needs and disabilities was at least £287 million last year and is projected to reach £1.6 billion in the next two years. The send reforms are in crisis so far. Half of all the local area send services have failed, I'll just repeat that again, have failed their Ofsted CQC inspection. So please, if you're in the area, if you're in London, come and support us at 12 o'clock at 10 down in Street and then 1 o'clock in Parliament Square. Various speakers. I'm going to be speaking. Siena Castellon, who's been on women's radio station is going to be speaking as well and there's lots of different activities that are happening. And as I said, two of my autism's got talent performers are going to be singing for people. How amazing is that? Outside the Houses of Parliament. So Gemma, what do you do to relax? With my kids? Yeah, it's a tricky one. I do like my hot bubble bath. Your hot bubble bath? My hot bubble bath. What kind of smells you put in? I like them lush bath bombs. Yeah, people talk about lavender a lot, don't they? They say that's supposed to help you relax. I like the smell, but I wouldn't say it helps me relax. No, I have that, my candle, and my music. I shut the door and then just 20 minutes, I try until someone comes through the door. I was just going to say to you, how long is it before someone knocks at the door and starts talking to you through the door? Or they'll just come and park their bottom on the toilet. But yeah, I do like bubble bath. Walking. Yeah, I love walking. I do like a walk. Is there anywhere special you like walking? Anywhere. Parks are good, aren't they? Parks are good. We've got a new shopping place called The Lakes near where we live. And they've got like a walkway, and it's all trees and water. And it's lovely. It's about half an hour walk. Just takes my mind off it. Friends, like go for a couple. We always go for a couple on a Friday. Oh, that's nice. Meet up with the mums and then we'll have a friend. We've got different friends that we sort of have our little chats. And then me and Tim are going to a spa. Wow. Tomorrow. Is that to celebrate your 15 years of marriage? I know. Yes, 15. Been a long time. But yeah, so we don't get to do that very often. You know, we're just lucky that we've got our two sets of mums that are helping us out. Oh, that's good. I was going to ask you about extended family because a lot of families who've got children with disabilities really rely on their extended family. We've got Nana Coral, an auntie pound that help us look after Angelo. But obviously, they're getting on a bit now and it can be difficult. So it's just like one or two hours probably be maximum that they would be able to look after Angelo. So what's your extended family? Are they supportive? Very supportive. I mean, there's not really a lot on my side. It's mainly my mum. But yeah, Tim's side. Amazing. Yeah, if it weren't for them, we probably wouldn't be here now because, you know, we don't get out a lot. But do you get any respite from the local authority? Tyler gets a respite on a Saturday day. He just goes four hours. He's a film fanatic. He loves his films. What type of films would he like? Anything. But he's Marvel Mad. Oh, right. Like Godzilla or Jurassic Park. Yeah, very big. But he could have had nighttime respite but I didn't want that. And you've always got that element of doubt on the back of your mind. And especially now with what's in the media about the abuse that's gone on. Wasn't that horrendous, that abuse that went on in Durham, in that hospital with those so-called care results? I just like, it made me feel physically sick watching that. Yeah, I mean, it worries me. You like to say, like I suppose for you, you know, when we're gone. Yeah. What's going to happen? I know. And obviously you've got, when you've got a son that's known, or minimal verbal skills, you're like, they're not going to be able to tell you. And even, you know, he's an adult of 26, you know, I still check his arms and that just to make sure he hasn't got any bruises or scratches and that, because he's not going to be able to tell you. And you just have that. It's because of the horror stories that you hear. There's just so many of them recently that as in the media. So that's something that, you know, that it's just a worry in the back of your mind all the time. So you're like walking, obviously going to a spa there. I've been to a spa a couple of times. I don't really relax that much when I'm there. I find it difficult. [Speaker 2] (50:21 - 50:22) I must admit. [Speaker 1] (50:22 - 50:27) Yeah, I do. I do struggle and I find I'm more tired. [Speaker 2] (50:27 - 50:27) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (50:27 - 53:55) The next day when I get home, I feel like I'm not. Yeah, I've had an Indian head massage, which I found that really, it was okay, but I thought, is this supposed to be relaxing? I can find it relaxing. Yeah. And then when you lie on your front and they're doing a back massage and you stick your head in the hall. And she was saying, relax. And I was going, I am relaxed. Yeah. It was just that I just didn't there. One thing I did find that I really liked was a few years ago was a chocolate facial. Oh, wow. Not real chocolate, but it was just obviously, I just found that was quite relaxing. It was smooth and so I haven't been back, but it's finding the time, isn't it? But you've got to make time. It's start and planning as well. You know, you can't just up and go. It takes at least a couple of weeks, if not longer to plan. Good days. If you were talking to yourself in your younger days now, you wanted to give yourself some advice. What advice would you give yourself? Would you go for diagnosis again? If it was what it was, how it is now, to what it was back then, then yeah, I would probably like to have, my mum would have pushed it in school. Because I think she never had the support back then. They always just use family class me as a naughty child. I think probably, I might have been different. I might have not self harmed and got into that low mode that I couldn't have got out. Yeah, I don't know. So you basically would give to yourself, don't be so hard on yourself. I do doubt myself and put pressure on myself a lot. So yeah, maybe. Yeah, accept myself more. Yeah, I think you do what? I think you've done amazingly well, but like you've got five children, you've navigated through marriage, 15 years, which these days a lot of people don't stay married for that long. I just think you should be proud of yourself and you should give yourself a big pat on the back. You've got lovely children. Obviously, I haven't met all of them, but I've met Sophia. She's just such a lovely girl. I remember when we were doing their rehearsals at Maggie's house because she's got a dance studio, hasn't she? At the bottom of our garden. So we were dancing and I kept putting my water down and Sophia was monitoring where I was putting my water. And then she said to me, Anna, you haven't had a drink yet. So she was like looking out for me and I just thought that was lovely of her to do that. And I said to her, you enjoyed today. I really enjoyed it today. And I loved dancing with them all and they were like, we're all looking out for each other and they were remembering the routine better than I was. So I was following them. But do you know what? I feel really comfortable when I'm with the kids and I just love being with the children. It was like when I used to teach them dance at Millionaire Manor School. Yeah. And because I thought, oh, I wonder if I'd be able to teach them dance because I thought, you know, just set up the school and the children that I was reading about, oh, they have got impairment of imagination because you're learning, that's what you go. And I just thought, these kids have got more imagination than anyone and I was teaching them how to dance and they were getting so much joy out of it. The difficulty that they had at first was the spatial awareness. [Speaker 2] (53:55 - 53:55) Yeah. [Speaker 1] (53:55 - 56:07) And they were like almost on top of me all the time and I had to teach them about spatial awareness. I had to teach them about dancing together. I had to teach them about listening to the music. And then I used to say, right, I'm going to play this music now just do whatever the music makes you feel. And they were just like really loving it. And some of them were interacting with each other or they were going in pairs or they were going in groups. And I just thought, this is just so lovely. And then the first time we did a little performance for the mums and dads that came after a year of opening the school. It was just so lovely. And there was like tears and crying and parents were saying, oh, they got up at a wedding and they started dancing. They would have never have done that before. So these are the sort of little milestones that might be not so huge to someone listening that might have a mainstream child. But to our children, that's huge, isn't it? I remember the celebration of milestones that the kids might have been doing at school. It's just like, it's just so uplifting that you can't explain it. You have to be there to experience what I'm talking about. And that's what I talk about Autumn's Got Talent as well. They're just amazing. I mean, watching the scholars together and they don't see each other a lot on the Sunday because they're all different ages. But when they do come together and how they connect. Yeah, a little family. It is and it does. It always brings me to tears. Yeah. Watching them all. And even like watching your parents when we were at Maggie's house, you're all having a little chat together, just sitting down a little glass of wine, you know, like a cupcake or a piece of cake or whatever it was. But it was just so, I was just watching you all sitting back, just watching it. I thought, how lovely is this? I just feel so open with everyone there because you're all in it. Yeah. No one's judging anybody and it's just like, you know, whatever goes goes and it's just, yeah, no, it's great. I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming today and sharing your journey with me and talking to me about your lovely children and about, you know, congratulations again for being married for 15 years and I hope you have a lovely day tomorrow with your husband. Yes, definitely. Kid free. So you're going to be writing something for me that we're going to be sharing on the charity website. [Speaker 2] (56:07 - 56:07) Definitely. [Speaker 1] (56:07 - 56:23) So top tips is really to look after yourself, talk to somebody, go for a walk, whatever rocks your boat, just go and do it and have some time out which is really important. Try and make time for you. That's the best thing. So I'm really looking forward to seeing you at five. So again, we'll have some fun. [Speaker 2] (56:23 - 56:23) Excellent. [Speaker 1] (56:24 - 57:28) So for you doing her routine. So we're at talking about autism, all things autism. We're talking about what we need to do to relax. We're talking about looking after each other. We're talking about moms. We're talking about dad's Nana's extended family. So if you would like to talk to me on my all things autism, it's up weekly every Tuesday at one o'clock. Please contact me at the charity website, which is www.annakennedyonline.com or you can contact me through social media and it's at Anna Kennedy OBE Instagram and at Anna Kennedy One on Twitter. Thank you. 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