All Things Autism - Alison Dawes Knowles 280222.mp3 ========================================= Speaker 2 00:02 - 00:39 Hello this is Anna Kennedy we're talking all things autism and it's a beautiful sunny morning or even afternoon I don't even know what day it is you know today for my we've been flat hunting with my son Patrick and um yes you can imagine all the questions and the anxieties building up but we're getting there we're getting there fingers crossed it's taken a little bit longer but we are going to be getting there so this year he'll definitely be moving out into his own place so that's a huge transition for Patrick so I'm sure a lot of parents who have autistic adults will know what I mean. So some fantastic news to start off with We've gotten a new announcement. Speaker 2 00:39 - 01:15 Women's Radio Station has won the Best Radio-Based Women's Mental Health Support Services UK Award in Global Health and Former Mental Health Awards this year. We're so proud to support this vital industry and its exceptional practitioners. And that's just fantastic news. presenter on women's radio since when it very first started so I think it's been over three years now possibly even longer so I always enjoy talking to my guests and it's fantastic news that we've received this recognition just want to remind you as well Autism's Got Talent if Speaker 2 01:15 - 01:59 you want to nominate somebody or you'd like to enter the Autism's Got Talent we're in our 11th year can you believe it 11 years and the closing date is going to be the end of April. So if you're a singer, a dancer, a musician, a magician, a poet, an artist, whatever it is that you want to show us your talent, please, please send in all your entries by the end of April and then we will have the tough choice of choosing 20 performers and the show will be at the Lovely Mermaid Theatre in October. The Autism Hero Awards now have been moved to June 11th, so if you're interested in coming along and celebrating with us, it's the Autism Hero Awards at the Chelsea Harbour Hotel. Speaker 2 01:59 - 02:41 All of the information is on the charity website, which is www.autismhero.org.uk. www.annakennedyonline.com just to remind you www.annakennedyonline.com we're also working on the expo so last couple of years we've been doing it online so we are going to be doing an online expo but we're also be going back to Brunel University we're actually going there tomorrow to have a little walk around we haven't been there for two years just to see if anything's changed and one of our headline speakers is going to be Carrie Grant so Please again keep checking our charity website. It's always being updated by the lovely Marla who's one of my charity champions and you will see the latest news changing day to day. Speaker 2 02:42 - 03:07 Just want to remind you as well about my petition. So the petition is who's going to look after our children when we are no longer around? This is a question that's at the back of many, many, many parents minds. And also autistic adults I've spoken to are worrying about their parents getting older and who's going to look after them or who's going to point them in the right direction so I've got about 11,500 signatures so far but I need a lot more so if you'd like to Speaker 2 03:07 - 03:56 sign and you haven't it's www.change.org forward slash Anna petition just to remind you again www.change.org change.org forward slash Anna petition and the last thing I wanted to share is about the autism care pathway webinar that's on Tuesday the 26th of April between 12 30 and 3 30 it's free so you can register online so if you check out again the autism care pathway webinar it's on the PACT website so PACT website you can follow them at PACT autism on Instagram and at PACT International. So my guest today is the lovely Alison Dorr knows, and she created the OLLI concept. And it's simple. Speaker 2 03:57 - 04:08 Children are not machines. Everything around mental health, or as she likes to call it, emotional well-being, is seriously over-engineered. The success of the OLLI model is simple. Keep it simple. Speaker 2 04:09 - 04:25 Alison trained to be a cognitive hypnotherapist, purely out of interest in the subject. It's interested her so much that she trained as an NLP and then CBT, and so it went on. Welcome, Ali. Hello, thank you for having me Anna and congratulations on another award. Speaker 1 04:25 - 04:26 You're going to need a bigger house. Speaker 2 04:29 - 04:38 Oh yeah, that was something else. I still can't get my head around it really. I got a message from New York and I thought it was like, you know, something dodgy. through an email. Speaker 2 04:39 - 04:55 I was saying to Lisa, is this some sort of scam? And she said, no, no, it's real. And then I got a telephone call from New York saying that I've been honoured as top autism ambassador and they said, would I like to come to Las Vegas in December at the Hotel Bellagio. I nearly fell on the floor. Speaker 2 04:56 - 05:37 I thought, well I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that because I'm sort of trying to figure it out you know the flight and everything it'll be like five nights away I thought oh I don't know if my husband can cope for five nights without me looking after Angelo so but anyway there's plenty of time for me to decide it's um gonna be in December so um you were on the show uh we were just looking and that was um in May 2019 time flies yeah yeah when the world was a little bit saner than it is now yeah yeah well don't know about that So, for people who are listening in, who is Ali? Before we talk about Ollie, before we talk about autism, who is Ali? Speaker 2 05:37 - 05:39 Where are you from and what's your background? Speaker 1 05:40 - 05:50 Um, I am... just an everyday person. I was born in a small town where there weren't great expectations. You worked in this factory or that factory. Speaker 1 05:51 - 06:10 Can't read and write, so school was fun. Couldn't get a job, a whole chapter of messiness there. The only job I could get was in sales and I think that was really down to when I was at school I learned if I was humorous and fun people wouldn't pick on me. So I learned to be sociable. Speaker 2 06:10 - 06:13 What did you sell? Sorry? What did you sell? Speaker 1 06:13 - 06:21 What were you selling? This is quite funny actually. We started off with car phones but do you remember when they were bricks? Oh yeah. Speaker 1 06:21 - 06:34 And I thought, this will never catch on. So I got out of that, even though I did quite well selling them. I'd be a millionaire by now if I'd stuck with it. But I ended up in construction because I'm not really a girly girl and selling dresses and stuff wasn't my thing. Speaker 1 06:34 - 06:42 So I ended up blowing up buildings, which was fantastic. Oh, that sounds like fun. It's very good for stress relief. Speaker 2 06:42 - 06:44 So how did you feel when you blew up your first building? Speaker 1 06:45 - 06:46 Well, I don't actually get to do it. Speaker 2 06:46 - 06:48 You know when you see somebody push the button? Yeah. Speaker 1 06:49 - 06:55 It's not. There's somebody else and it's taken six months to plant the stuff to do it. Speaker 2 06:55 - 06:57 You were short-changed there. Speaker 1 06:58 - 07:08 I was, but you know, just being around, the awesomeness of watching them bringing down buildings in the middle of crowded streets and no damage, that's amazing. It's an art, it really is. Speaker 2 07:09 - 07:31 Yeah. I had a job in sales, well I had two jobs in sales when I first started because I had a very strict dad when I was growing up. He's Italian, it was like good girls stay at home, good girls work. So after a few months of staying at home and getting really depressed, my mum sort of convinced him and I wanted to be a linguist at the time and then my dad wouldn't let me go to college. Speaker 2 07:31 - 07:39 He was just like, he was so controlling and strict. So in the end I ended up working in Debenhams, not Debenhams, House of Fraser, selling lingerie. Speaker 1 07:41 - 07:44 He had some really funny men coming in. Speaker 2 07:45 - 07:56 And then I had a job selling Ariston washing machines. It was so boring but I was good at it. Speaker 1 07:57 - 07:59 That's impressive. That's impressive. Speaker 2 08:01 - 08:11 Yeah, and then we went to live in Italy. But hey, so can you remember the first time you met somebody on the autism spectrum? Was it a child? Was it an adult? Speaker 2 08:11 - 08:13 Did you know what autism was? Have you ever heard of it? Speaker 1 08:14 - 08:52 I had heard of it, but like the majority of people I was aware of it and it was something that affects other people and not me. But my niece had a son. and he was autistic and so kind of had it in my world for a long time but he was it was interesting I remember saying but he's not like the others and people say I'm obviously a gay woman as you know a number of people that meet me well you're not like the others are you I'm like what exactly does that mean yeah so I still didn't connect it up with the autistic world he was just you know my nephew so kind of always had that and then obviously building Ollie up and the people that Speaker 1 08:52 - 09:28 have joined us as coaches, an awful lot of them have children on the spectrum or partners on the spectrum. So again, I've had the opportunity to look and then we just had this wonderful opportunity, or I did, where I was asked whether or not what we do could work with people, kids, adults on the spectrum and help support families. And I thought, well, why wouldn't it? yeah well you know they're very different we need to yeah they are different but everybody I meet and it's how I train my coaches everyone you meet you've never met anyone like them before you don't know the rules the regs how to communicate how their world works work Speaker 1 09:28 - 09:52 it out that's the only way you're going to help them so for me it was absolutely no different but what I found inspiring was personal opinion but I actually think kids on the spectrum adults on the spectrum I think they're the next super race I think They are so damn advanced on us with intellect and emotional capacity, which apparently they're not good at. Rubbish. And that was it. Speaker 1 09:52 - 09:59 I was hooked. I was fascinated. And as you know, our marketing lady, Tally, very much involved in your world. And that just pulled us in more. Speaker 1 09:59 - 10:09 So, yeah, it's become a huge chunk of what we do. And yeah, if you'd have asked me, even back then, we were sort of on the edge of it. We were aware. But we are proper in the deep end now. Speaker 1 10:09 - 10:10 And I love it. Speaker 2 10:10 - 10:23 So who is Oli and what made you think of Oli and then obviously you've developed other characters as I know and so just if we start for people listening in who is Oli and why was Oli created? Speaker 1 10:25 - 11:04 Honest truth absolutely no idea that's the truth. Ollie, the Ollie model, is basically, I can't read and write, anything highbrow, anything long-winded, anybody that uses long words with me, I feel like I'm being talked down to, then I switch off, and if I don't understand it, then I can't do it, I get frustrated, stressed, we all do. And I thought, for all the training I've done, it was all too highbrow and it was too boxy and label-y, so I just took the best from numerous therapies, and I just simplified them, and rather than teaching our coaches how to fix and heal people and all that Speaker 1 11:04 - 11:18 and tell people what to do. I just said, look, how about we do something really radical here? How about we actually believe in people and just teach them what we know so they can do it themselves and they don't need us? So that's how it came about. Speaker 1 11:18 - 11:40 The storybooks came about because in the beginning there was just me and parents said, look, you know, I have a fine thousand more Olli coaches, which we've now done. Or, you know, write some books that we can use them at home. They're fun stories, but they develop the whole principle of everything you think and feel is a part of you, not who you are. And you're in charge of it and you need to help it out from time to time so you can separate it from you and deal with it. Speaker 1 11:41 - 12:08 And the main character in that is Ollie. Obviously, after a while, we can't have a little boy with superpowers without a little girl with superpowers. And we were doing a lot of work with fostering adoption because those kids are being through it. So we had a Molly who was at the time in foster and ended up being adopted but you have to read the book it's a lovely story and we have a lovely old gentleman called Mr. Wilcox who lives in an old people's home that his mum works in Speaker 1 12:08 - 12:30 who teaches both of them about their superpowers and we've been going full strength now with Olly coaches all over the country working in alternative provision we get the kids everyone's given up on so again We work with an awful lot of kids on the spectrum because people somehow think it's overly complicated. It's not, they're just kids, they just communicate differently. Speaker 2 12:30 - 12:41 So Ollie is a fabric, I'm trying to, so people obviously can't see Ollie through the radio, so Ollie is made out of fabric and it's quite a small doll. So how did you come up with that design? Speaker 1 12:41 - 12:55 Yeah, the Ollie doll, he's just kind of our logo now. I mean, we do use him in the therapy room because he's like a comforter. So we use him to calm kids down. But the design of Ollie just came up when we were doing the book. Speaker 1 12:55 - 13:17 So I just wanted a very nondescript young lad from a single parentage household with not a lot of money that everyone could relate to. And that's where he came from. So he's kind of kept his image all the way through. And now, yeah, he's kind of a logo and a lovely cuddly toy that's I get over Engineer, he's perfect for newborns, so he's the first boyfriend that most little ones ever have. Speaker 2 13:18 - 13:20 Can you remember the first time you used Ollie? Speaker 1 13:21 - 13:41 Yeah. I'd worked out that I could actually do what I was doing with children, because in the beginning I was only working with adults. I hadn't had what I thought I needed, specialist children training. And quite literally, I just had a child come along, and they couldn't deal with the fact, what is an emotion? Speaker 1 13:41 - 14:03 How do you teach a kid what an emotion is? And in the beginning, before I worked out to separate the emotions from the children, I just used Ollie, and mum would give me a bit of background as to what was going on with the child. And I'd just sit there with Ollie as the puppet, And Ollie, strangely enough, had exactly the same issues going on, and I invited the child to help me help Ollie. And in effect, what they were doing was helping themselves. Speaker 1 14:03 - 14:22 So we still do use him that way, but the majority of what we do now is getting young and old to recognise that whatever they're thinking and feeling, which is totally okay, is just a part of them. It's a small part, and it's quite a young part. And actually, we just need to have a chat with it and help it. But we're all about empowering, not fixing. Speaker 2 14:23 - 14:29 So if someone's interested in saying, oh, I might like to become an OLLI coach, what do they need to do and where can they find you? Speaker 1 14:30 - 15:09 We'd love you to. I have a lovely headache now in that we are getting picked up by lots of organisations that have seen our worth and how it's working. but I need more Olly coaches so on our website which is www.ollynissuperpowers.com there's a section about how to become an Olly coach and there's students there telling you you know what the course is like and honestly we have mums, dads, teachers we've got a lot of GPs joining us which is fun social workers every walk of life my rule is tell me why I'll teach you how but yeah please come and find us because it's good for your kids and your family as well as you know it's the best job in the world Speaker 2 15:10 - 15:30 Can I ask, like looking from the outside in, because obviously people are devil advocates, so you say you work with adults, with being an OLLI coach, so say you were going to work with somebody who's in their late teens, would you think that, how do you sort of get around the bit where they think it might be patronising working with OLLI superpowers? And I'm just being devil's advocate. Speaker 1 15:30 - 15:46 No, no, no, you're absolutely right, and it's something that we're looking at right now, do we change our whole image? I don't want to, but the sensible people behind me are saying we should maybe change it a little bit. Basically, the model doesn't change, the language does. So a really good example is, I was working with a lad in London in a school. Speaker 1 15:48 - 16:04 He was on Spectrum and the Senko had written that this kid has anger issues, frustration. She reeled off all these things that she perceived and projected to be going on with him. And he came into the room, and he was a big unit, so I was a little bit... I went, you know, hello, I'm Ali, who are you? Speaker 1 16:04 - 16:15 And he goes, ex. And I said, it says on here that you get angry and frustrated, and he went, I ain't angry. And I said, OK, you know, that's somebody else's, you know, they're looking at it, and that's so good. What would you call it? Speaker 1 16:15 - 16:46 And he said, he gets vexed. And I go, what? now I don't know what that means and I don't need to because all I did then was say okay that part of you that gets vexed what's it getting vexed about and we had a chat about it and he was able to help vex with a little bit of help from me to not get vexed so um I was going to ask you the last two years have been really difficult for a lot of families and I've noticed more adults as well that have contacted the charity or they just want to have a chat with Speaker 1 16:46 - 16:47 me even like sometimes like Speaker 2 16:47 - 17:25 It was all to do with everything that's been going on in the last two years, all the changes, all their anxieties So have you noticed that it's had an impact on children, adults and their families? And this programme is known for giving out tips and advice. So is there anything that you can share to help families that might be struggling because of all the changes? And now they're talking about, you know, we're coming out of lockdown and Covid and whatever else it is. Speaker 2 17:25 - 17:32 I just feel the way they've communicated everything. It's been quite poor and it's been quite confusing. Speaker 1 17:33 - 18:21 I absolutely agree and the answer to your first question yeah I mean we have never been busier we are all absolutely flat out working silly hours to make sure we give everyone a safe place just to either offload or help them deal with what's happening in front of them because trying to get help is ridiculously just a whole other podcast. I don't want to go on after the weekend I've just had um but yeah I mean what's going on is very it's not great so all the transitions all the way through this have affected everybody and we all know that if you've got a kid or an adult on the spectrum any change they're so dependent on us to guide them through what the world they don't know how it works we're their guide and if the world changes they freak so we need to be able to explain it to them to calm them down and make Speaker 1 18:21 - 18:55 them feel safe again but if we don't know what those changes are because either one minute we're told this the next minute we're told that and even worse now you know aren't we being nice you can make your own decisions well that's just too much damn pressure and how do you make a decision you know that until now we've had scientists making for us so there's so much pressure on parents and the thing is and we forget this about children think about think about a blind person They're walking along with their dog. They have to be completely dependent that that dog will notice any danger and protect them. Because they can't do it. Speaker 1 18:55 - 19:08 They can't see it. So if that dog's having a bad day, or the dog's a little bit jumpy, that's terrifying, isn't it? Think about, I don't know, children. Monsters under the bed and they can't sleep. Speaker 1 19:08 - 19:16 Classic one. But they will sleep if mum or dad's in there with them. Why? Because mum and dad aren't afraid of the monster. Speaker 1 19:17 - 19:50 Now, all children, and especially kids on the spectrum, have a hypersensitive way of noticing things that we don't. They have a powerful, powerful sixth sense to guide them through a world that doesn't make sense to them. And that is they pick up on us and our emotional state. And if mum and dad are anxious, no matter how hard they're trying to be that perfect swan, the child will feel even more anxious they depend on you the world's not safe and if you're anxious the world's really not safe. Speaker 2 19:50 - 20:23 I was just chatting to a parent actually this morning who rang me from Watford and talking about his son's anxieties And I was, you know, he's just recently, he's only very, very young. So I just said, you've got to, no matter how much you try not to get anxious. I said, they just pick up on it. I said, you know, even like I've shared this many times before where Angelo, you know, he's 29 and he's got minimal verbal skills but he's got so much going on up there he's got so much to offer but as soon as I'm not feeling that good or I've Speaker 2 20:23 - 20:48 got a headache or I've had a bad night or whatever he knows he just like come up to me and he strokes the side of my cheek and just looks at me as if to sort of say you all right mom and where Patrick my eldest son he'll just keep asking me are you all right mom what's the matter mom you know and it's just like If that's a lot of pressure for a parent as well because you're expected to be okay all the time even though some days might have a rubbish day. Speaker 1 20:48 - 21:03 But, you know, I think that's half the problem with why everyone goes, oh, you know, I'm terrified of anxiety and anxiety disorders creeping through the roof at the moment, whatever that is. And it's, you know, what is anxiety? It is a bodyguard. It's saying something's not right. Speaker 1 21:04 - 21:22 I don't quite know what's going on here. This could potentially be dangerous. Not it is dangerous. and again it's just a part of you so you know we spend an awful lot of time we've got six-year-olds on the spectrum not on the spectrum that completely get anxieties a part of them and it's just saying it's noticed something that they haven't but what it doesn't Speaker 1 21:22 - 22:08 realize is how clever they are now whether you know we say well you know you're six now you were your bodyguard still thinks you're two or whatever But one of the key things that we do, we've always worked with the whole family. And the reason that we do that is because siblings, parents, they are the guide in the world for our gorgeous autistic kids. If they are not calm and at peace and then the child won't be because they gauge the world through us. As cliche as it is you've got to put your oxygen mask on first and one of the things that we do and it's a really simple thing with parents and kids and we do it together because then you know it's not another thing that the autistic kid has Speaker 1 22:08 - 22:58 to do because and now we all do it and I literally that you don't have to do this literally as I'm explaining it people but I draw three big circles on the floor one inside the other and in the outside one I write no control in the one next one in I write some control and in the middle one I put total control and I invite mum dad whoever I'm working with and the child to stand in the middle one say okay what have you got total control over and you can make it quite good fun and and actually it's quite an eye-opener not a lot but again it's quite cool for the child to see that nobody's got much control over anything but if you just stand in that circle where you have got control you kind of feel okay and it's kind of good isn't it because it's safe And then I invite them to step out into the next one, where they've got some control. Speaker 1 22:58 - 23:07 And again, discuss what have you got some control over? And for parents, this is awesome. What have you got some control over? And by that, I mean, can you do anything about it? Speaker 1 23:07 - 23:16 Yes, no. And again, just discuss what those things are and how it feels. And it'll feel a little bit more awkward, but not too bad. Then step out into the outer one. Speaker 1 23:17 - 23:37 Because the thing that makes us really anxious is the stuff we've got absolutely no control over. And you will notice, however you notice this, however you're aware, whether it's words in your head, support, a feeling, you will notice how different it feels to stand in that outside circle. And then I simply say, can you do anything about this circle? No. Speaker 1 23:38 - 23:47 Which circle can you do? Well, the one I've got some, and the one I've got total. Let's go back in the total again. What is it about you that gives you total control here? Speaker 1 23:47 - 23:55 And the parent will say, well, I'm in charge of this, this, this, and this. And the child will say, I've got mummy. And when I get scared, mummy does this, this, or this. Or I cuddle an Ollie doll. Speaker 1 23:56 - 24:12 Whatever it might be, get them to notice what it is that makes them feel safe in that scenario. And then they can take that with them in their head or physically, depending on what it is. It's called an anchor into the outer circle, or the next circle out. And then that allows them to cope with a little bit more of daily life. Speaker 1 24:13 - 24:22 And the outer one, why would you spend any time there? Because if you can't control it and you can't change it, why would you spend any time there? Speaker 2 24:23 - 24:45 Do you get sometimes resistance from, say, the dad, the father, that might not want to do it? Because I have spoken to some where parents have said, like I've spoken to a mother, and they've said, oh, my husband won't come. He doesn't feel he needs counselling, or whatever it is that you want to call it. Do you get some resistance sometimes that it's not both parents that want to do it? Speaker 1 24:45 - 25:20 Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to make it a lot worse for ourselves by what I'm about to say. I have parents, I have dads that just have never dealt with the fact that their child is different and not because they don't love them and all of that but because Well, the other day I was talking to one dad, and it took him a while to say this, but he said, the reason I don't want to get involved in any of this is because if I do, then I'm going to have to look at myself and accept that my son's never going to play rugby with me. Speaker 1 25:21 - 25:49 And I feel guilt that I feel that. So sometimes the reasons parents won't get involved is because they're struggling with their own emotions about the whole thing. And another one is, you know, we put all this pressure on men and we continue to do so, which is why the suicide rates are through the damn roof, of you are the sensible one, you're the provider, you're the carer, you never get upset. And to get too close and feel helpless for a man, arguably is ten times worse than it is for us, we're used to it, that's what we do. Speaker 1 25:50 - 26:00 But guys are supposed to be in control, aren't they? They're supposed to know what to do. And it's a weakness if they don't. And we always word it that, no, no, this isn't about you. Speaker 1 26:00 - 26:10 We're not doing therapy on you. I'm teaching you what we do so that you can work with your child so it doesn't need us. So I'm giving you more control. So it's just how you word it. Speaker 1 26:11 - 26:17 And that is honestly what we do. We teach parents, because I don't want kids in therapy. Parents are the best ones for them. The parents know them. Speaker 1 26:18 - 26:18 I don't. Speaker 2 26:19 - 26:32 What about extended family? Because I know I get a lot of parents that speak to me and say, oh, my mum or their grandparents, they won't accept it. They're saying, oh, you're looking for something that's not there. You know, they're not autistic. Speaker 2 26:32 - 26:38 They're just being naughty or whatever it is. Do you ever have where the extended family come along as well? Speaker 1 26:38 - 26:39 Again, all the time. Speaker 2 26:40 - 26:42 And you know, it's really hurtful. Speaker 1 26:42 - 27:04 Any other comment? OK, I remember when my sister, as I said, one of my sisters has an autistic son. The other one, her son was OK and normal, if that's such a word, and everybody had opinions and views on how to bring them up and what to do and felt part of it and wanted to give advice. Nobody knew what to do with my sister's autistic son. Speaker 1 27:06 - 27:46 Yeah. And so they either pulled away and offered no support or they were no look you know you just not put boundaries in you've not done this you've not done that what they're actually doing as cruel as it is to watch that and certainly be on the receiving end is they're protecting themselves they can't cope with the fact that they can't help and they don't know what to do so they're going back to what they know well boundaries rules right no matter how many times you try and explain it they're not going to but the thing to remember is this isn't about you this is about them and their fears and their limiting beliefs And, you know, we want to help, we want to be involved, we want to be out and say, well, you know, if your baby's teething, do this, that. Speaker 1 27:46 - 27:56 You can't do that if you've never had an autistic child in the family, you don't know what to do. And that helplessness can come across in quite a negative and patronising way. But that's about them, not you. Speaker 2 27:57 - 28:06 Yeah. So if you've got, again, someone interested in becoming an Olly coach, what does it entail? How long does it take? Do you have to have certain qualifications? Speaker 2 28:07 - 28:22 So what is it that you're looking for? And how much time in the day, because obviously a lot of parents don't have a lot of time juggling this and that and the other, how much time in the day do they have to sort of put aside? OK, let's start with what qualifications do you need? Speaker 1 28:22 - 28:27 None, please. I remember where I came from. I can't read and write. I left school with not a lot. Speaker 1 28:29 - 28:42 What I'm looking for, the qualification I need, is if you've got that something inside you that knows the world could be a better place for our kids. And do you want to be part of making that happen? Because we are an army. So if you can tell me why, I'll teach you how. Speaker 1 28:42 - 28:48 So we're not looking for qualifications. Far from it. Far, far from it. How much time does it take? Speaker 1 28:48 - 29:09 Thanks to COVID, we had to put a lot of the course online. And I think we're going to keep it that way because what it means is that a lot of the course you get to watch and re-watch and watch and re-watch. So it's actually sinking in and making more sense because we're giving you an awful lot of information. So we have three modules online. Speaker 1 29:10 - 29:29 And once a month for three months we get together at the weekend in your specific group and we go back over the stuff that I know is going to make you go, ah, can't do this, what have I done? Yeah. And then we have two modules in the classroom. There's a couple of essays, but we're not looking for, you know, university degree stuff, please. Speaker 1 29:29 - 29:37 I can't read and write. What we're looking for is, have you understood what I've just said? Yes or no? And then we ask for case studies. Speaker 1 29:37 - 29:52 Now the case studies are working with friends and family and just practicing what I've taught you. And I hold your hand all the way through that. And the reason we do that is too many damned schools go, there you go, you've sat in the classroom, have a piece of paper, have a badge. And you don't know what you're doing. Speaker 1 29:52 - 30:03 But through the case studies, I can ensure that I'm imparting as much knowledge and experience as possible to help you be the very best you can, whether you're working with others or directly with your family. Speaker 2 30:03 - 30:08 The courses run in London at Regents University and in Manchester. Speaker 1 30:09 - 30:25 So the two in the room modules are either North or South. What you get at the end of it is you get recognised certification in NLP Neuro Linguistic Programming. What does that mean? How to communicate with people properly because we've forgotten how. Speaker 1 30:25 - 30:43 And it's really powerful stuff that you'll find really useful however you use it. And of course your Oli badge and shirt so that we can take you with us as part of the army and get you out there working in all the different areas that we're in and some we're not in yet. But every Oli coach opens up a new door in a new area we could be in. Speaker 2 30:44 - 30:46 So how long does it take? Speaker 1 30:46 - 31:08 Overall, the course itself to actually complete the actual learning part of it is five months, but it's just weekends. Right. And the coursework, we give you an additional six months after that because, yeah, the people that we're inviting aren't students. They're mums and dads and they've got jobs and they've got children. Speaker 1 31:08 - 31:30 So you've got an additional six months to do the actual coursework and get it in with an awful lot of support. Nobody that joins us will not get their red shirt because I interview absolutely everyone. And if it's not right for you or the right time, I'll be honest and say, because we need you to be the best you can be. But the moment you join us, it's my job to get you red shirted. Speaker 2 31:31 - 31:35 OK, that all sounds good. So how many have you got, do you reckon, so far? Speaker 1 31:36 - 31:44 No idea anymore. I think we've trained over 120. They're not all working full time. Some of them are just using it with their families. Speaker 1 31:44 - 32:02 Some of them are using it in work itself, you know, social workers and what have you. More and more. They're getting the bug and they are pretty well full time and we've got them in schools and various different agencies doing amazing work. What I created, they've taken it on a million miles. Speaker 1 32:03 - 32:06 They're amazing people with no therapeutic background. Speaker 2 32:06 - 32:15 OK, so let's talk a little bit about you've got Ollie Kids and Ollie Mums. So what's that all about? Speaker 1 32:16 - 32:38 Again, we're completely led by the people that contact us. So in the beginning, we just did one-to-one work, either in schools or in private practice, and then foster and adoption, alternative provision, et cetera, SEND. Some kids don't need one-to-one work. They just need a little bit of help. Speaker 1 32:38 - 33:02 But in a group environment, it's quite useful, too. So I'm actually, next week, in fact, doing my first Out and Out Send Ollie Kids Programme. Normally it's a group of 10 kids and we work for an hour a week over five or six weeks and it's a real mix of kids. This is the first time they're all special educational needs which is just going to be, I have no idea, but amazing and brilliant. Speaker 1 33:02 - 33:32 But that's what we do, we just watch in front of us and work with it. Olly mums came about from the off because mums are, sorry dads, they were predominantly the main carers and the main support working with the child while dad was supporting the family. And what we were talking about earlier about giving them the tools, giving them the techniques, how to work with your kid, the number of parents that get into this loop of why, why, why, you empower a child by going what, how, what do you think, how could we do it better? Speaker 1 33:32 - 33:49 They've got the answers. and then using age-appropriate language and not even age-appropriate because what does that mean we're all so different it means your child appropriate language So that's how the Olly Mums came about, but it's Olly Dads as well, so we've actually upgraded it now to Olly Parents. Speaker 2 33:50 - 34:07 I was just going to say that, you know what, I was watching a programme this morning, well it was news on Good Morning Britain, and there was a couple of ladies on there, and one lady's all for talking about Mums and Dads and where the others are saying, oh you can't say Mums and Dads now, because you're going to ostracise other people, you have to say grown-ups. Speaker 1 34:07 - 34:24 And, you know, I absolutely respect all of this, how you identify and what we're allowed to do and say, but you know what? I identify as Ali, and if anybody else wants me to respect how they identify, then I'm kind of expecting them to. So you could get yourself tidy knots, can't you? Speaker 2 34:25 - 34:35 We went from one to one work, and as I said, we were only getting called in with the kids, literally everyone else had given up on, and there was an awful lot of kids on the spectrum included in that, but not just. Speaker 1 34:36 - 34:46 And they were being excluded and just a mess. They feel bad enough and not connected enough without all that. So I'm really proud of that work that we do. But then we have what I call cusper kids. Speaker 1 34:46 - 34:58 And, you know, they may be socially awkward. Maybe they didn't have the filter or the interaction skills to just banter and know when someone was being funny. They didn't really do cause and effect or process. So we started doing group work. Speaker 1 34:58 - 35:39 But group work with maybe one or two Sen kids in the group, the rest weren't and it was brilliant because the other kids then stopped looking at these kids as different or awkward. They were just Harry or Peter and that's just what they did. So that was really powerful and we were teaching them empathy, self-worth, relationship skills, just things to help them to live the life that unfortunately they need to in our world that's not very forgiving or kind or adjustable. And then on from that, and it was one of the lovely things that came out of last year, was I was just sitting here getting really cross, no matter how many Olly coaches I get, and how hard we try, we are never going to stop what's happening. Speaker 1 35:39 - 36:10 I'm never going to stop having teenagers that are self-harming, wanting to commit suicide. And if we're talking about the spectrum again, blimmin' heck, how hard does life have to be for these teenagers, do you know? And chuck in a label of autism or, you know, fetal alcohol, whatever. and I thought we're never going to stop this and we're not going to stop it because we're not getting involved until the kid's already in trouble and I thought what if we could get to them before and again everybody laughed at me and said you can't teach little Speaker 1 36:10 - 36:28 ones And I decided, I'm pig-headed and old now, I know, I just went, watch me. So we created a prevent programme and now we're in schools, and all schools, inclusive schools, out and out special needs schools, and we are teaching kids as young as six what their emotions are. Speaker 2 36:29 - 36:36 So how do you do that, so people listening in, so they can visualise it, what sort of things, how do you teach a child of six? Speaker 1 36:37 - 37:35 what that how you know to identify with their emotions what sort of things do you do i'll give you let's let's use anxiety as a classic because that's the one that kids get like they don't even know what that means they pick up our word yeah you ask an average kid what they're doing right now my tummy feels funny or my heart's beating quick they don't we've named it anxiety and and quite literally we we deliver the concept age appropriate language appropriate that everything you think and feel is a part of you and it's your team and it all has a purpose so for example you know kids say well I don't want scared and angry I just want brave and happy and that's there for you and you explain well yeah yeah but if you cross the road and you only had brave you wouldn't look left and right so you need scared to not be too big but just big enough for brave to hear so that's scared to go oh brave look left and right yeah kind of balance it out and anxiety we don't use that word we just say you're Speaker 1 37:35 - 38:33 a little bodyguard that one that makes your tummy go funny sometimes or makes your your heartbeat a bit faster he knows everything that's ever ever frightened you and and he spends his whole life just wandering around you can't see him but he's always there and he's like a little secret agent he's always watching to see if there's anything that before now has upset you because if you haven't learned it you can't be anxious about it can you so it's pretty well guaranteed that it's something that you've experienced in the past and from the off we explain that all of these emotions superpowers one thing we call them unicorns whatever you want to call them it doesn't really matter they're all a lot younger than you so even when I'm working with six-year-olds I talk about the little anxious superpower and he still thinks you're only two years old and you know you've only just learned to walk and you can't ride a bike yet and you've got six-year-olds going I can ride a bike now and I can use the grown-up toilet I know but your bodyguard doesn't know so that's why he's making you Speaker 1 38:33 - 38:53 all worried about stuff because he still thinks you're little do you still need to be worried about this and you hear them talking the bodyguard down and explaining no no i don't need to be afraid of that anymore because i can go and tell mommy or i can do bang anxiety gone so how is it working with teachers are they quite receptive to what Speaker 2 38:53 - 39:03 you're trying to explain to them and working with the children so how do you get into schools? What I'm trying to say is how do they open the door as if to say what's she all about? Speaker 1 39:05 - 39:58 In the beginning it was like knocking your head against the wall but fortunately I had a couple of friends who were headteachers that said come on then let's see and literally you know I can sit here and chat to you and tell you god it's brilliant it's brilliant it is it's brilliant because it's simple and it works but we don't do that we show so in the beginning we literally went in free of charge and said let us show you whatever you've got in place at the moment put us up against them let me show you and we do that now so we offer all schools all schools parents get us in free assemblies why so that teachers and the parents can see the kids react we do free parents teacher evenings so i can explain the concept more fully and give you really good tips on how to help yourself your family not just your autistic child but the siblings and everybody Now we've had so many schools, they're talking to one another, we don't have a big machine behind us, I wish we did if we could ever find the right one, and Speaker 1 39:59 - 40:17 the schools talk to schools, the county councils talk to county councils, foster and adoption talk to foster and adoption, but we're still very dependent on parents that have either seen us privately or love what we do, they're following us online, who just say, do you know what our school could do with some Ollie, and that's how it happens. Speaker 2 40:18 - 40:32 It sounds like you're a busy bee, obviously. How do you deal with your own stress? What do you do? It's a bit like my mum's a seamstress, but she's always got buttons missing off her cardigans. Speaker 1 40:33 - 40:43 Ah yeah, do you know one of the things and I do warn all of the Oli coaches when they start training with us, you know you used to have a mate pop round for a natter and a cup of tea and talk rubbish? Yeah. And that doesn't happen anymore. Speaker 2 40:44 - 40:48 It starts off like that, oh you know, nice weather, can I just talk to you about, no! Speaker 1 40:48 - 41:01 So my thing is fishing. I love fishing. I come across quite loud and confident but actually I'm not. I really enjoyed lockdown and I hated it when we were let out again because now I've got to make excuses. Speaker 1 41:02 - 41:21 I actually prefer my own company and my downtime is Even though I can't read and write, I absolutely love literature. And I can recite every Shakespearean play. It just ignites me, excites me. So my downtime is to be lost in something like that, that form of media, or to sit on a riverbank on my own. Speaker 1 41:22 - 41:35 Before anyone gets upset, no hook or bait on the line. You don't need to. If you're sat there with a rod, everyone presumes you are fishing and feels very sorry that you haven't caught any fish. But they leave you alone. Speaker 2 41:35 - 42:02 so uh wow wow yeah i don't know about fishing that's too quiet for me not where i go so where can you see ollie going um so if i gave you a magic wand and i said here you go what what would you like to see for ollie in the future um what i would like to see is um a company in our world Speaker 1 42:03 - 42:21 that recognizes what we do and the need for change, and that people don't need to be in therapy forever, and they can be self-empowered. I'd like them to now take us to the next level. I've got Ollie here, and I don't know how, right? But I don't know how to run an international company, and Ollie has the potential to do that. Speaker 1 42:21 - 42:42 It's already happening. I don't know how to get us out there. We've got the lovely Tali, and she'd be the first to admit, we don't know how to market ourselves so everybody knows we're here, so that they're not alone. So on one hand I just want to get us out there and you know it's kind of happening at its own pace so we've been picked up by a production company that want to make a cartoon of Ollie. Speaker 1 42:43 - 43:00 Okay. The whole principles behind Ollie, the parts and empowerment and all the magical stuff that goes with Ollie and introduce more characters and certainly there'll be SEM characters because it's time, it's due. That's really really going to help us but Me? I just want us everywhere. Speaker 1 43:00 - 43:21 I want us to be an option. I get really hacked off when I hear that people can't get the support they need or they're waiting six months and their kid's gone from low anxiety to not wanting to be here. And I get really hacked off that we have jumped through hoops. We have now ticked all the boxes, our measurables, our procedures, everything about us. Speaker 1 43:21 - 43:37 I've set the bar. We've had to because we've put our head above the parapet. We are scalable. We can be a very, very real backup to what's being offered by CAMH at the moment, and we can prove our measurables of success. Speaker 1 43:38 - 44:14 which would mean that the government would fund us so that we could work with all the people that need us because unfortunately at the moment we have to charge and yeah you know we'll bend over backwards to help people and we really do but we shouldn't we should be we should be an emergency service because we are we get dragged in as the emergency service but that's too damn late get us in sooner and that should be accessible that would be my dream so having approached like the department for education or any of those bodies Not yet. The other thing that I'd really like for Ollie is someone that could say, what you need to do, Ollie, is come away from the cold face. Speaker 1 44:15 - 44:18 Think about what you've just said and who do you need to be speaking to. Speaker 2 44:18 - 44:46 Right. The thing is as well, sometimes things work really well, that's the sort of scary part I suppose, some things work really well at the pace that you're at now, but then sometimes, like some charities, they get so big they forget why they were doing it in the first place and then it becomes a machine, but a different type of machine. Can you see where I'm coming from? Speaker 1 44:46 - 45:39 I completely can and it's one of my fears and although you know we're fairly flexible with the Oli coaches that join us because they're doing it for their reasons it's really important that we stick to the model so that I can put measurables in front of CEOs and say look now I am telling you on average six to eight sessions to deal with anxiety and that's because all of my Oli coaches are using the same techniques so we have to keep those measurables there but you know I think that that comes down to who's going to join us, who's going to take us to the next level and who's going to have the understanding to make sure that that ethos and everything that I created Oli for goes ahead because I don't want that to get lost into the machine because we've lost the one thing that makes it work for us which is everybody is unique and individual and the moment that becomes you know 10 points to be an Oli coach, no it's out the window. Speaker 2 45:40 - 45:47 It was like Autumn's Got Talent. We were approached by Channel 4. They wanted to change the whole thing. They wanted to make it a competition. Speaker 2 45:47 - 46:02 I said, it's not a competition. Then they wanted to use people that were savants. I said, that's not what Autumn's Got Talent is about. And the production company that approached us that wanted to do it totally got where I was coming from. Speaker 2 46:02 - 46:26 And I just said, if you're not doing it the way I say, because it's been working like this for 11 years, yeah we're not doing it so they've pulled away and so did we so i said i'll only do it if they do it as it is because it works as it is and you can see the difference that you know and everyone who performed last year has already applied to perform this year again because they've had such a positive experience. Speaker 1 46:26 - 46:36 With the production company, I kind of insisted that I'm associate director for exactly that reason because if they lose the essence of the model, they've lost everything. It's just another cartoon. Speaker 2 46:36 - 46:39 So what's it going to be? Unlike CBVs or something like that? Speaker 1 46:39 - 46:48 We don't know. So what we've got to do is put a pilot together and then see who bites. I've got you. We've already had quite a few sniffs and bites. Speaker 1 46:48 - 46:54 I think it'll be all right. But just to give you a feel for it, we've had a few people approach us now. We've got bigger. They're taking us seriously. Speaker 1 46:54 - 47:01 No one helps you in the beginning, do they? Lesson learned. And we've had a few people approach us. We'll fund this. Speaker 1 47:01 - 47:07 We'll fund that. We'll step in and we'll take you to that. And I'm thinking, please, I'm exhausted and I just want this to get out there. And they're all not right. Speaker 1 47:08 - 47:23 But one I thought was, and we got right down to the wire of this could be the company that could run beside us and take it to the next level. And in the last meeting, he said there's one more thing that we need to change before we can agree to this, Ali. And I said, what is that? He said, at the moment, you're saying six to eight sessions on average. Speaker 1 47:23 - 47:30 I went, that's right. And most other therapies, you're in for months and months and months. I went, that's right. That's not me talking. Speaker 1 47:30 - 47:40 That's facts. Go and look at the mental health. And he said, well, instead of saying six to eight, from now on, can you guys say 10 to 15? And I thought, you don't get me, do you? Speaker 1 47:40 - 47:51 I completely don't get what this is about. It's about empowering. Yes, we all need to make a living. But no, so no, we still haven't got anyone. Speaker 2 47:51 - 47:54 If someone's listening in, what type of company are you looking for? Speaker 1 47:56 - 48:20 Someone who gets what we're doing and why. Someone with the business head to take us to the next level. Absolutely what Anna said, I know what works within the model, but I'm also not stupid enough to know that we don't need to make adjustments within the model to get it to where it needs to be. I seriously, in one generation, I want the kids we're working with now to be the therapists for their kids. Speaker 1 48:21 - 48:39 I want us to not have this stupid thing where everyone's in damn therapy over the slightest thing because we don't know what to do. I want to empower people. That's got us lost along the way. So if there's anyone out there that gets what I'm saying and can help us with that and help us get the message out, I would love to talk, please. Speaker 2 48:39 - 48:53 Okay, so hopefully someone's listening in. So can you give any advice to parents and carers that might be really struggling at the minute because they're trying to juggle too many hats? Not me. Speaker 1 48:53 - 49:00 I can't believe you asked me about self-care, Anna, really. Speaker 2 49:02 - 49:05 Seriously, that certainty? Speaker 1 49:05 - 49:08 Do it. Do it for yourself. Just do it in your head. Think about it. Speaker 1 49:09 - 49:22 Worry achieves nothing. Anxiety achieves nothing. In fact anxiety's fight or flight is designed to not let you think clearly. So why would you spend any time in a situation that you have no control over? Speaker 1 49:23 - 49:37 What a waste of energy and time. Step back into the areas that you do have control and let everything else pass. because you can only ever do what you do. And all the way through our life, parents, you beat yourselves up, oh, if only I'd done that, I should have done that, why wasn't I stronger? Speaker 1 49:37 - 50:08 All the way through our life, we get offered choices on whether to go left or right. And sometimes, one of them's really obviously better than the other, but most of the time, they're both pretty useless. But we still have to make that choice. The best thing I can say, and I say it again and again to all parents, but especially you guys is no one knows your child like you do no one ever will the authorities will never understand the way you do I'll never understand the way you do you Speaker 1 50:08 - 50:39 are your child's interpreter you're their bodyguard you're their strength you're their guide but in order to do that you need to be able to put your oxygen mask on first and I know when I say to parents you know take time out find something that interests you no matter how mindless Why would you go, I can't, I can't, I can't, because, because, because I can't leave them with anyone else. Harsh reality guys, and I know it was something you were talking about earlier, and this is close to my heart. You're not always going to be there for them. Speaker 1 50:39 - 50:58 So in whatever little way you can, you've got to try and get them to the point where they can deal with that. So is it such a big deal for you to start that process by making time for yourself? Allowing yourself that time? Just allowing yourself the right to exist beyond your child sometimes. Speaker 1 50:59 - 51:10 And if I've got people screaming at the radio right now going, you don't understand. No, I don't. But I do know this. Olly Coach is a brilliant therapist and we really are making a difference. Speaker 1 51:12 - 51:20 But kids don't need us. They need you. So find that time just to do something mindless. Go fishing without a hook. Speaker 1 51:20 - 51:31 Lose yourself in a field. Go and chat with your friends. Whatever it is, take that time. And you know, if you're really struggling with anxiety yourself, pick the phone up. Speaker 1 51:32 - 51:36 We're here. We'll talk. We support you, Anna. We really, really do. Speaker 1 51:36 - 51:46 And we support your people. And we can usually help just with a very quick chat on how to bring your anxiety down so that you can be the very best version of you. Don't do it alone. Speaker 2 51:47 - 52:20 Some people don't find talking, which I found, if they're anxious, they don't want to share it because they feel it's like a weakness. So that people will look down at them or they're not coping. And also saying that I've spoken to parents where they're really struggling with their kids. and they find it really difficult looking after them, especially one parent families and they've gone to places like social services and I'm sorry to say social services have not helped them and I know one family where their kids were taken away from them after they asked for help Speaker 2 52:20 - 52:30 so For me, the parents have obviously got that at the back of their mind, so they're juggling that as well and the anxiety of it all. So what sort of words... That's a very, very true one. Speaker 1 52:30 - 52:40 The number of parents that are like, obviously, when anyone comes along to us, we have to do the confidentiality bit and the risk assessment. And immediately you can see them climbing up, you're going to take my child away. No, I'm not. Speaker 2 52:41 - 52:43 I have to follow rules and safeguard, but no, I'm not. Speaker 1 52:44 - 53:28 What I would say is this, you know, whatever you're thinking and feeling, and all of us have different words for what that might be and all of us express it in a different way but whatever that is that right now is making you think you can't do something that you need to do or be something that you think you need to be just take a moment How many times this week, this year, have you been that person that can't do something you need to do or say something you need to say? Because most of the time, and the fact that you're even here and listening to me, means you are that person and you can. And all that's happened is that's all just got a bit overwhelming and you can't see or hear or feel that version of you that absolutely can do and be everything you need to be. Speaker 1 53:30 - 53:38 Just take that moment, take a breath. Just take that moment. And just remember, you're here. How did you do that? Speaker 1 53:39 - 53:52 Especially at the moment. You did it because everything you need you have inside you. And the only reason you doubt it is because other people. Other people aren't you, they don't know your child. Speaker 1 53:52 - 54:02 They know nothing. You're the expert. And if it's a case of dealing with experts and not knowing how, reach out. That's why your organization is brilliant. Speaker 1 54:03 - 54:20 And there's people like us, we can help, we can support, we can get you through. I spent this weekend dealing with social services and crisis teams. And I was able to get things sorted because I could stay emotionally detached. And when I need to, I can be very grown up and speak their language. Speaker 2 54:21 - 54:22 Yeah. Speaker 1 54:22 - 54:23 Don't have to fight on your own, reach out. Speaker 2 54:25 - 54:38 I remember you did a workshop for us and I don't know if you can do it online because obviously it was visual at the time. You did like a breathing exercise to help you relax. If I remember correctly, your arms were up and then you went down for eight and something like that. I can't remember. Speaker 2 54:39 - 54:48 Could you share it so that if people wanted to have a little go and to help them relax and breathe, so that would be great. Speaker 1 54:48 - 55:07 Yeah, I'm glad it had such an impact on you. It's a really, really simple one, and it works for kids too. It's called 7-11 breathing, and the reason that it works is your brain can only focus on one thing at once, even though we pat ourselves on the back for multitasking, we don't. So what you do is you stand and you make yourself grounded. Speaker 1 55:08 - 55:37 Just imagine your feet grounded, slightly wide apart, about shoulder width apart, arms by your side, and then take a really deep breath in, counting to seven slowly. And as you do, just bring your arms up so that they're parallel with your shoulders. So in for seven, all the way in, bringing your arms up really slowly, taking your time. And then when you get to seven, just hold that breath just for a second, and then release it through your nose and your mouth. Speaker 1 55:37 - 56:00 But, as you're doing so, you're lowering your arms and counting to 11, and your arms will not touch your side, and you won't release the last of the breath until you get to 11. And again, as slowly as you can. If you do it right, you'll feel a little bit lightheaded and a little bit, ooh, what just happened? One, you'll feel completely relaxed. Speaker 1 56:00 - 56:20 But two, that lightheadedness, because you've changed the oxygen intent, has made your body function on how you're feeling rather than what you're thinking. And in that instance, you've interrupted the pattern of whatever emotion you were struggling with. So it's a really simple, powerful one, and very, very effective. And you might need to do it a couple of times. Speaker 1 56:20 - 56:54 But the lovely thing is, after a while your body your brain is always going to do that thing again to calm us down and it just almost cuts out the middle man and you find you just need to stand there with your feet shoulder width apart count to seven go to take that breath and your body will go no we know what you want okay and you'll suddenly feel calm But what we can do, and I don't know if I've offered before, but let's make it happen. If you've got a platform that I can put some videos on to help parents with stress management, there's some really simple techniques, then we'll get them recorded and over to you. Speaker 2 56:55 - 57:11 definitely put them on the charity website because as you know we have our well-being ambassador Juliana. She puts out videos on the power of touch. So anything like that it would be fantastic. So if you just liaise with Tally we'll get them up there and we can put them on the charity website. Speaker 2 57:11 - 57:38 Anything to help the autism community that you know they can help them navigate this dreadful system that they have to navigate. Anything to help them relax would be amazing. So if people are interested and they want to check out Ollie and His Superpowers it's just www.ollieandhissuperpowers.com and can they find you on social media? Is it just Ollie and His Superpowers again on Facebook? Speaker 1 57:38 - 57:43 I believe so and we're on Twitter. No, I don't know. Tally! Speaker 2 57:44 - 58:35 I know what I'll say is that you can write in an article for me which will go on the charity website to obviously publicize the chat that we're having today. So all of the links, any links, anything that you'd like to share will be on the charity website. And just to remind you again, it's AnnaKennedyOnline.com and it's www.ollyandhissuperpowers.com and it's been a pleasure once again talking to you Ali, thank you for stepping in for me because the lady that was going to do it before was not well so you stepped in at a blink of an eye and we as I said you and I can chat for English So thank you again for chatting to us and giving us lots of advice. Speaker 2 58:35 - 58:52 So if you want to become an Olly coach, don't forget you can check out all the information on ollyandhisuperpowers.com and hopefully you'll find somebody that's going to fund everything for you. And also I'm looking forward to seeing the, is it a cartoon? What did you say it was? Speaker 1 58:52 - 59:02 Yeah, no, it's gonna be a cartoon, so it'll be like a cartoon adventure series, because we've made the books adventure series rather than... This is how you do self-help, because that's boring. Speaker 2 59:02 - 59:22 You should use your voice, you know. So, well, thank you again. I really appreciate taking the time and hope to see you again. Oh, we didn't chat, but congratulations for being shortlisted at the National Diversity Awards, which we met up a few weeks ago now. Speaker 2 59:22 - 59:40 I can't remember all the days rolling to one, but that's another achievement. So that's fantastic. So, yeah, everyone, stay safe. keep going one day at a time breathe in breathe out i think we're coming out of this lockdown who knows thank you everyone bye