All Things Autism – Carol Stott, Autism and Courts & Tribunals.mp3
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Speaker 8
00:00 – 00:13
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism. We’re live, we’re in Covent Garden, and my guest today is Dr. Carol Stott. Before I go over to Carol, I just want to give an announcement about our autism expo.

Speaker 8
00:13 – 00:31
Due to unforeseen circumstances, we’ve had to cancel the expo, but only to postpone it. It will be happening a little bit later on in the year. So as soon as we have a date, we will let you know. If you have have actually booked tickets, please contact the charity website and we’ll be able to reimburse you.

Speaker 8
00:31 – 00:58
Or if you want to defer the ticket until the new date, please just let us know. I am a really tired mom today. I’m team no sleep. I’ve been at work all night and Angelo’s been suffering with toothache and yet again we have to wait weeks and weeks for an appointment so Angelo went about three weeks ago and they said because obviously he has to have a general anaesthetic we have to wait for an

Speaker 8
00:58 – 01:18
appointment from Guy’s Hospital but you have to wait for a letter first then you’ve got to have an appointment and then you’ve got to go and see the dentist and then after that they will give you so last time we did something like this it was six months And this is so unfair. I’d like to see them have a toothache for six months. You know what it’s like having toothache or earache.

Speaker 8
01:18 – 01:36
It’s just so debilitating. So I’m going to try and see if I can find another avenue for poor Angelo. Not nice to see him so upset. What do you think about it Dr. Carroll, so why do our kids have to have everything so difficult, long waiting lists, or like you have to climb Mount Everest before you get to where you need to be?

Speaker 7
01:36 – 01:42
And for parents too, it’s a complete fight the whole time really isn’t it, to get the services that everybody else expects to happen.

Speaker 8
01:42 – 01:54
Well thank you so much. for coming along. So my guest, Carol, we covered a lot of topics within the Awesome Spectrum the last time she was on the radio. It was August the 9th, 2019.

Speaker 8
01:54 – 02:21
I can’t believe this was the last time you were here. So you completed your PhD in the University of Cambridge Awesome Research Centre in 2001. And you also had an MSc in, well, you have an MSc in Epidemiology from the University of London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and in Forensic Psychology and the Criminal Investigation from the University of Liverpool. So I have known you for oh something like 20 odd years.

Speaker 7
02:21 – 02:22
Long time.

Speaker 8
02:22 – 02:24
Yeah because you came to the school, Hillingdon Manor School.

Speaker 7
02:24 – 02:26
Yeah back in the Hillingdon days.

Speaker 8
02:26 – 02:32
Yeah and obviously you’ve seen my boys grow up as well. Well, so if you’d like to just share a little bit with people about who are you, Carol?

Speaker 7
02:32 – 02:40
Where are you from? Where’s your accent from? I’m from Oldham, near Manchester. And I came down to Cambridge.

Speaker 7
02:40 – 03:12
I live in Cambridge now. I came down to Cambridge first, back in the day, and then went back to Lancaster, and then back to Cambridge. So I’m a northern girl with a Cambridge influence, I guess. I’m a clinical psychologist and I also work a lot of the time now in training, so training other professionals in autism diagnosis using two particular measures, ADOS and ADI, as well as having a relatively small clinical practice where I see children and adults for diagnostic work.

Speaker 7
03:12 – 03:21
And today I’m going to talk a bit more about work that I’m doing in the courts, in the criminal justice system, family court, education and employment tribunals.

Speaker 8
03:22 – 03:31
So does this involve any specialist training? Obviously your extended knowledge now, you’ve just got so many strings to your bow, I’ve lost count.

Speaker 7
03:31 – 03:47
Yeah, in a sense. It needn’t do. It needn’t do. But what I’ve done quite recently has been really useful with a company called Bond Solon, who are a very good company training expert witnesses across the board, not just psychologists and medics, but across the board.

Speaker 7
03:47 – 04:13
The last part of the course I went on, for example, there was a guy who was into harnesses and mountaineering and things like that. So that’s been really, really useful. And it’s accredited by Cardiff University Expert Witness Group. And what they do, it’s not so much that they train you in anything to do with your own subject, because that’s your experience and background and stuff, but they help you about how to be in court, so who to look at.

Speaker 7
04:14 – 04:33
And they tell just minimal things in the first instance that were really useful, like which way to turn, where to put your feet when you’re in the witness thing, looking at the judge and jury, not the barrister. They’re barristers, and they give you a lot of info about that. So you do quite a bit of role play then? Yeah, absolutely, really quite hard.

Speaker 7
04:33 – 04:42
So I had a barrister who was cross-examining me with a report that I’d submitted to her and they’re fierce, they’re really fierce, but very, very good, really good experience.

Speaker 8
04:42 – 04:48
So what sort of cases have you worked on in the past? So shall we break it down to family, education and employment?

Speaker 7
04:48 – 05:00
Yeah, OK. Family, a little bit less with the family court than with the others. And I’ve not actually directly appeared in the family court. I’ve done quite a lot of work outside it.

Speaker 7
05:01 – 05:14
I think that’s quite common. I think to actually appear is relatively unusual. It depends on the circumstances of the case. But it’s often about, it’s all about, all of my court work is about people with autism.

Speaker 7
05:14 – 05:43
So in the family court it’s sometimes about families who are separating and have a child with autism and the potential impact on the child, the potential impact on the parents as well of the child having autism. And then it sometimes gets into the more complex areas that are related to attachment, the sorts of things that might happen as a result of the family breaking up. So it’s been more that kind of work really. rather than any child protection work explicitly.

Speaker 7
05:44 – 05:53
It usually involves seeing the child, seeing the parents and being instructed then on what kind of information the court needs to make the decisions that they’re considering.

Speaker 8
05:53 – 06:03
So if there’s a family that is going through a break-up, where do they go? Is there a one-stop shop where they can go to find out information and then where to go from there?

Speaker 7
06:03 – 06:20
There’s not really a one-stop shop, no. But there is support out there. The NAS are particularly good, in fact, in that situation, in advising people where they might get support and where they might get information. Jessica Kingsley Publishers is always a go-to place, I think.

Speaker 7
06:20 – 06:33
Lots of literature for children to read, for families to read. And how autism might mean, having a family member with autism might mean approaching things a bit differently. And Jessica Kingsley are very good at that.

Speaker 8
06:33 – 06:41
I can imagine that to be very stressful for everybody involved. Yeah. And obviously, you’d need to work with the school, I suppose, as well.

Speaker 7
06:41 – 06:42
With the school, yeah.

Speaker 8
06:42 – 06:50
Because everyone needs to be saying the same thing, singing the same song, if you like, because if everybody’s giving different messages, then the child’s going to get so stressed.

Speaker 7
06:50 – 07:25
And also educating the court a bit, because it’s different for people with autism, obviously, whether the person with autism is a parent or a child. in terms of what kind of custody arrangements there are, what kind of access arrangements there are, that it’s not necessarily the same as you would advise for a child who didn’t have autism. So the kind of thinking about regularity of seeing dad and then seeing mom involves quite a lot of change for the child with autism. And so there are different questions then about whether it might be more beneficial for them to have more contact with one parent, less contact with the other.

Speaker 7
07:25 – 07:31
not because of any problems with the parent themselves, but because of the consistency that the child with autism needs as well.

Speaker 8
07:31 – 07:34
And what about the judges? Do they get extra training about autism?

Speaker 7
07:34 – 07:47
Not extra training, but they’ve got access to extra information, I suppose. There are places like Bond Solon, I guess, who are pretty good at advising outside of just the expert witness context.

Speaker 8
07:46 – 08:01
I think with autism, I’ve found by speaking to families throughout the years, it either brings you closer together or it can actually push you apart. Very, very stressful. So what about education?

Speaker 7
08:01 – 08:41
Education usually is to do with either EHCP appeals. Quite often, I help families in putting together what evidence might be needed, and the court, of course, or the tribunal, to decide on what’s appropriate. So quite often, following a diagnostic assessment, most of the children, given the diagnostic criteria now, most of the children can very arguably and very clearly be said to have a disability under the Equality Act 2010, which means not just SEN related stuff but also things to do with equality rights as well and adjustments, reasonable adjustments that need to be made in schools.

Speaker 7
08:41 – 08:53
So it’s working with the family to know, so they know what their rights are and working with the tribunals to understand the needs of the child and helping hopefully bring those two things together.

Speaker 8
08:53 – 08:55
So would you say tribunals are on the increase now?

Speaker 7
08:55 – 08:56
Yes.

Speaker 8
08:56 – 09:00
And by how much would you say? Or is it depends on where you live?

Speaker 7
09:00 – 09:21
I think it depends on where you live, but what’s interesting as well is that the large majority, my understanding anyway, is that the large majority of appeals to tribunal are successful, which is a bit bizarre. What you’d expect is that if somebody appeals a decision, you would expect maybe 50-50 or even less. It’s more like 90% nationwide. Does it depend on the evidence that you’ve got?

Speaker 8
09:22 – 09:30
Yes, absolutely. And do local authorities still fund consultants, as in to try and stop the parent getting the school that they want?

Speaker 7
09:30 – 09:35
Yeah, and lawyers to sit on their panels. What a waste of money. Absolutely, and public funds as well.

Speaker 8
09:35 – 09:51
Most definitely. You touched on diagnosis, so we have a lot of parents that are listening that might be going through the diagnosis process, or maybe you think your child might have autism. Just for those listening in that don’t know where to go, how do you approach getting a diagnosis? What do you do?

Speaker 8
09:51 – 09:52
Where do you go? Who do you see?

Speaker 7
09:52 – 10:01
Who do you speak to? Yeah, first of all your GP and school. Now school can be very helpful. Sometimes they’re a little resistant as well, so you need to be a little bit careful.

Speaker 7
10:01 – 10:20
The GP is the first point of call I would say and they will advise where in that particular area the diagnostic service is active. So it might be paediatrics or it might be CAMHS and that varies according to where the person is really. GP is the starting point for sure.

Speaker 8
10:20 – 10:39
Okay and do you think the waiting times are getting longer or do you think it’s about the same? Because I just recently read in SEN magazine that it’s from like two years to possibly up to five years, which we highlighted as a charity many, many years ago. Do you think it’s still that sort of time?

Speaker 7
10:39 – 10:58
I think it is, yeah. I think it is. And I think one of the problems, I mean, clearly, the number of people who are presenting to services is a problem. But also, I think with the best intentions, really, things like the NICE guidelines are so much encouraging multidisciplinary approaches that in my training courses, I often get reports of huge panels of people.

Speaker 7
10:58 – 11:19
One particular person had come along on a course and said 16 people sat on this particular panel, and each one And it’s a bit extreme, that’s not usual. But each one would have an opinion on whether the child met criteria for a diagnosis. So they’d be going through an entire process that was very thorough, for sure, but increasing the waiting list.

Speaker 8
11:19 – 11:38
OK. We’ll talk a little bit more about that and obviously the work that you’re doing. If you’re interested in being one of my speakers on all things autism, supporting women’s well-being at Women’s Radio Station, please contact me at the charity website. It’s www.annakennedyonline.com.

Speaker 8
11:39 – 11:59
I’m on social media, so you can contact me there if you’re interested, or you’d like to speak, whether you’re an autistic adult, a parent, a carer, or a professional. It’s at annakennedy1 on Twitter, annakennedyonline on Facebook, or annakennedyobe on Instagram, or you can contact the charity website. Thank you very much.

Speaker 10
12:02 – 12:04
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Speaker 8
12:14 – 12:21
Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we’re at Women’s Radio Station supporting women’s well-being and we’re talking all things autism.

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Speaker 8
14:59 – 15:06
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism. We’re live and we’re in Covent Garden. And my guest today is Dr. Carol Stott.

Speaker 8
15:06 – 15:24
Just to remind you about the expo, it’s being postponed until probably July, but we’ll get back to you as soon as possible. I also want to announce the names for Autism’s Got Talent performers. What a task that was to try and choose 20 performers from across the UK. and overseas.

Speaker 8
15:24 – 16:08
We’ve had Mexico, we’ve had Nigeria, we’ve had Italy, we’ve had, oh, I just can’t even remember the amount of countries. It was so hard and the talent, they’ve upped it. So here we go, here’s the names. So congratulations to Caged Arts, Jamie Dickinson, Samuel Turner, Daniel Carson, Joshua Scott Crowley, Holly Allison, Cameron Spencer, Louisa Futcher, Joseph Pass, Skye Boswell, Jessie Kay, Tamiah Fyffe, James Scullion, Alfie Bennett, Ben Male, Tom Wakeley, Scott Edgar, Talia Wanon, Pineapple Performing Arts Scholars, and Autism with Attitude, who are

Speaker 8
16:08 – 16:18
now called Atypical with Attitude. So congratulations to everyone. Tickets are now available. The show will be on June the 13th at the Mermaid Theatre, Blackfriars.

Speaker 8
16:19 – 16:25
Please come along and support our performers. So, Carol, thank you again for coming along.

Speaker 7
16:25 – 16:26
It’s my pleasure.

Speaker 8
16:26 – 16:46
We were just finishing off at the end of the first half talking about diagnosis. Now, a lot of questions I get asked is, if there’s obviously a long wait, if they wanted to get an independent diagnosis, is it still valid? Because some local authorities are saying, oh, it’s not valid, it’s not worth the paper it’s written on. What is your opinion?

Speaker 7
16:46 – 17:33
Well, first of all, I think if anybody’s actually told that, then they need to take some action really, because it’s not lawful to say that. I think so long as an independent practitioner is following diagnostic guidelines in the first instance, and then NICE guidelines, which are national guidelines for good practice, really, in the UK, well, in England and Wales, signed guidelines in Scotland, then absolutely it counts. And I think that anybody who’s told otherwise should actually get the local authorities to put that in writing because they’re at risk of breaching all kinds of human rights law. I think the important thing though is to make sure that the practitioner is doing what you would expect them to do and that they’re doing it thoroughly and well.

Speaker 7
17:34 – 18:13
And the other part of that I think is that it’s unfortunate and unfair that sometimes people are pushed into seeking an independent opinion. It should be available for everybody on the NHS without them being pushed into that and I think the demographics changed I think in the past. It was very much more a choice that people made because of their own circumstances or you know whatever that might be. I think now people are struggling financially sometimes and that I think needs looking at potentially to maybe have practitioners working with the local authority or with the local NHS services, which is actually happening in Hillingdon a little bit at the moment.

Speaker 8
18:13 – 18:34
Yeah, that’s the borough where I live. So your current interests and obviously you’re working with is the criminal justice system from offending, arrest and interrogation, trial, sentencing and custodial sentences. You’ve acted as an expert and professional witness in criminal and family courts. and Education Tribunal and Employment.

Speaker 8
18:34 – 18:40
Can you tell me a little bit more about the criminal justice system and the work that you are doing?

Speaker 7
18:40 – 19:04
Yeah, OK. There’s lots of aspects to it, really, because, as you just said, in a sense, the beginning of it is the vulnerability of people with autism. So again, it’s always about people with autism that I work. Initially, people with autism are vulnerable, perhaps being misunderstood, that leading to what appears to be a criminal act that perhaps isn’t a criminal act.

Speaker 7
19:04 – 19:24
may well be, may not be. At the point of arrest, an interrogation or questioning, the person with autism behaves differently, so they may look a little different. And a lot of the signs that people with autism may show are also, unfortunately, generally considered signs of guilt. So not making eye contact.

Speaker 7
19:24 – 19:46
making conversation about things that interest them more than what it is that the police are actually wanting to ask about looks like they’re avoiding the issue. The sensory issues that people with autism might have mean that they’re very uncomfortable, I mean everybody’s slightly uncomfortable in that situation, but very uncomfortable to the point that there’s a higher risk of the person with autism making a false confession to get out the room.

Speaker 8
19:46 – 19:47
Yeah, I’ve heard that so many times.

Speaker 7
19:48 – 19:59
Absolutely. So, right at the beginning of the whole process, there are difficulties. There are very good police officers who do understand. There are others who would like to understand more, I think.

Speaker 7
20:00 – 20:28
And so the sort of training that they need and are engaging in is really important. And then following that, let’s say a case does go to trial, beyond the plea really, so if somebody pleads guilty and then the case does go to trial, there’s a lot of help then needed for both the courts and the people with autism to understand what that process is going to be about. Having the person with autism understand what that’s going to mean in terms of what they’ll be expected to do.

Speaker 7
20:29 – 20:43
In terms of the court, understanding that, you know, very, very simple things, and this is more of an anecdotal example that might not actually happen, but, you know, people saying, the court, please rise. The person with autism won’t rise. They’ll stay still. Because they haven’t been told to stand up.

Speaker 7
20:44 – 21:05
But that kind of thing, really. And I think the other thing that people don’t quite realize is that you can access services to help with that entire process along the way. So people, I think, are quite familiar with things like an intermediary. But the intermediary is a professional person who is not on one side or the other, so they’re neutral.

Speaker 7
21:05 – 21:16
They’re there to support the court, help the court and support the person with autism in accessing a fair trial. But they can be engaged right at the beginning of the process to help with the preparation of the case.

Speaker 8
21:16 – 21:25
So where would somebody, so somebody is going through a difficult time, they’re trying to support their young person, where would they find this intermediate person?

Speaker 7
21:25 – 21:54
There’s an intermediary company now. I can’t remember the name of the company, but I know if you Google intermediary services for criminal justice, then it will lead you to the website that will tell you about it. And I think the thing to be aware is that a person with autism has a right to be supported, not necessarily by an intermediary. That will be assessed, I think, and the court will make a decision about whether they think it’s needed or not, as well as a person with autism.

Speaker 7
21:54 – 22:17
Throughout the process, that’s the thing. I think people think of intermediaries, if they know about them, as being there in court to help the person understand the questions. But it’s actually about helping prepare a defence as well. So, helping the person with autism who might have some other difficulties associated with literacy, perhaps, or with understanding what the allegations are, with understanding quite how to address some of the issues and questions that are asked.

Speaker 7
22:17 – 22:25
is part of the trial preparation. So it’s the solicitors as well who need to understand, the barristers and then the court and judge and so on following that.

Speaker 8
22:26 – 22:29
Sounds like quite a stressful situation for a family to go through.

Speaker 7
22:29 – 22:42
Totally, yeah. Are you seeing any increase in this area? I wouldn’t know really. My work is increasing but I think that’s just because I’ve made myself accessible and so it might be a bit of a referral.

Speaker 8
22:42 – 22:45
And what sort of age group would you say are getting involved?

Speaker 7
22:45 – 23:07
A lot of the work that I’ve been doing has been with late teens, young adults. So a lot of it is actually to do with social media as well, and misunderstandings on social media of how relationships should be. So people accused of stalking behaviors on social media. So again, that’s another autism-specific thing.

Speaker 7
23:07 – 23:18
So people who don’t necessarily understand very easily where the boundaries should be. maybe appear as though they’re stalking somebody. Maybe they are as well, and that’s important. It’s hard to say that people with autism don’t.

Speaker 8
23:18 – 23:25
But sometimes they’re looking for friendships, or they might be young men who are looking for a girlfriend, or vice versa, or whatever the situation may be.

Speaker 7
23:25 – 23:42
And that age difference, I think, for people with autism, who quite often do choose friendships with slightly younger people, because it’s easier for them to do that. is misinterpreted. And when that starts to be an 18-year-old, 17-year-old young man and a 15-year-old girl, it gets extremely complex.

Speaker 8
23:44 – 23:53
Is there any sort of, without naming names, cases that you’ve worked on and where you can see improvements made within the criminal justice system?

Speaker 7
23:53 – 24:19
Yeah, and I think some of that comes from solicitors being more aware and more educated. Because one of the things I’ve definitely noticed is that I initially would get instructions which didn’t really make a lot of sense. So here I was as a psychologist and the instruction might be, can you do an IQ test on this person? and not anything to do with autism, and in the door walks somebody that’s clearly somebody on the spectrum.

Speaker 7
24:19 – 24:26
And it’s almost like they’re on questions being asked, so it’s not an IQ test that’s needed, it’s an ASD assessment, and then help with the process.

Speaker 8
24:27 – 24:37
So do you get many through that are not diagnosed, but clearly, again, you can see that they’re on the spectrum. Could you suggest that this person may be on the spectrum? Are you allowed to do that?

Speaker 7
24:37 – 24:48
Yes, definitely. Because if I then… bound to do, what I have to do, is follow the instructions of the solicitors. That’s what I mean a bit about educating solicitors, so that their instructions are more informed.

Speaker 7
24:49 – 24:54
But if I think when seeing somebody for an IQ test that maybe they meet criteria for an ASD, then I can introduce that.

Speaker 8
24:55 – 25:12
OK, so a lot of the areas that you’ve been talking about as well are related to human rights. So do you think there’s going to be a significant change in the future with reference to human rights? Because I’ve been seeing human rights bandied about across social media at the minute and it’s getting quite stressful.

Speaker 7
25:12 – 25:25
Yeah, it is stressful and it’s a little bit uncertain, I think, how things generally will go. There’s a lot of very good people working in the area. People like Steve Broach, for example, who’s a human rights barrister who knows a lot about autism and human rights.

Speaker 8
25:25 – 25:26
So where would they find him?

Speaker 7
25:27 – 25:28
Steve Broach, Moncton Chambers.

Speaker 8
25:28 – 25:32
Okay, so people Google Steve Broach, they can find out a little bit more.

Speaker 7
25:32 – 25:44
And he’s written a book called Children’s Disabilities, Disabilities in Children’s, which is really good, new edition out now. People like that are making a difference for sure.

Speaker 9
25:44 – 25:46
Brexit shouldn’t make that much of a difference.

Speaker 7
25:46 – 25:59
I was just going to talk about it. I thought, dare I say Brexit? Yeah, it is what people are talking about, I think. So leaving the EU didn’t and doesn’t mean that we lose the European Convention on Human Rights.

Speaker 7
25:59 – 26:20
It doesn’t mean that, because it’s a different organisation from the Council of Europe. But there may be implications of trade deals and things, which people are now talking about. Oh, well, that might mean we don’t want to sign up completely. to the European Convention, so who knows, but that should be accompanied with what they’re talking about, a Bill of Rights for the UK, who knows.

Speaker 7
26:21 – 26:22
It shouldn’t mean that human rights go away.

Speaker 8
26:23 – 26:44
Okay, so again, thank you. We’re going to be talking a little bit more in the next quarter. If you would like to be one of my speakers on All Things Autism, please contact me via the charity website. If you want to see any of the events that we’ve got coming up, we’ve got the Autism Hero Awards, we’ve got Autism’s Got Talent, We’re going to Cheshire to do Autumn’s Got Talent as well, so lots of different events.

Speaker 8
26:44 – 26:51
So please check out the charity website, www.annakennedyonline.com. If people want to check you out on Twitter, have you got a Twitter handle?

Speaker 7
26:51 – 27:00
Twitter at carolstockphd. Facebook is carolstockphd as well. And the website. Thank you very much.

Speaker 10
27:03 – 27:30
Welcome to the women’s radio station supporting women’s well-being. Women’s Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women’s well-being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website, womensradiostation.com, for more information.

Speaker 11
27:31 – 27:52
Hi, everyone, and welcome to The Femaling Show. I am your host, Nicole Goodman, and I am a woman’s identity expert and coach. As women, we fall into different phases of identity throughout adult life, and during these, our challenges can look pretty similar. Here at WRS, I will be talking to you about the real issues we all face, and even the ones we can silently struggle with.

Speaker 11
27:52 – 28:00
Through honest, heartfelt conversation here at Femaling, you will learn how to accept yourself, understand yourself, and be yourself.

Speaker 3
28:01 – 28:17
Hi, I’m Carolyn Van Biers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women’s Radio Station. It’s Mother’s Hour. If, like me, you’re a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you.

Speaker 3
28:17 – 28:31
We’ll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories, it will be a refreshing, honest and funny look at being a mum.

Speaker 9
28:31 – 28:42
I’m Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower & Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone.

Speaker 9
28:43 – 29:00
Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don’t know where to start. At EmpowerAndEnrich.org, you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at EmpowerAndEnrich.org, and let’s change your future together.

Speaker 1
29:03 – 29:17
Are you struggling with money? Turn to Us is a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track.

Speaker 1
29:18 – 29:30
Whether you’re thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk

Speaker 10
29:33 – 29:55
Welcome to the Women’s Radio Station, supporting women’s wellbeing. Women’s Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programmes. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com.

Speaker 10
29:55 – 29:58
Women’s Radio Station, supporting women’s wellbeing.

Speaker 8
30:00 – 30:10
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism. We’re live and we’re in Covent Garden. And I just wanted to remind you about the Neurodiversity Youth Summit.

Speaker 8
30:10 – 30:20
It’ll be happening next Monday. It’s come around so quickly. It’ll be four o’clock till 6.30 at City Hall. Free tickets are still available if you’d like to come along.

Speaker 8
30:20 – 30:43
So if you check out the charity website, it was organized by one of my ambassadors, Sienna Castellone, who’s the founder of Neurodiversity Celebration Week. She’s also written a fantastic book. Again, it’s also been organized by Jeanette Arnold, OBE, Chair of London Assembly. So there’s going to be lots of speakers there and we are going to be showcasing some of our performers again.

Speaker 8
30:43 – 31:00
for Autumn’s Got Talent. I’m always trying to slot them in wherever I can, so a great opportunity to perform at City Hall. My guest today is Dr. Carol Stott. We did touch very much on diagnosis, and it’s a big thing of mine, and if someone’s listening in, they’re thinking, well, what’s the process?

Speaker 8
31:00 – 31:04
What do I do? Where do I go? Where? Where would they go?

Speaker 8
31:04 – 31:05
Who do they contact?

Speaker 7
31:05 – 31:32
OK, first of all, the GP. The GP is likely then to refer either to CAMHS, which is Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services, or paediatrics, depending on where the person is. For adults, it would be whatever local general psychiatric services are on offer, really, because there aren’t any particularly autism-specific services. So first there, and there are the potential for independent assessments as well.

Speaker 8
31:32 – 31:43
So another one of your interests is employment, so reasonable adjustments. Have you attended many tribunals? No, not in direct person.

Speaker 7
31:44 – 32:18
The same as we were talking earlier, really, about the family courts, I think the actual appearance, attendance at tribunals, is a little bit less common, but quite often in providing reports and things for employers to understand about what a person’s needs might be and looking at how reasonable adjustments can be made. And then in terms of tribunals, when those things haven’t happened, how the person can be supported to make a claim and hopefully then put some of these things in place.

Speaker 8
32:18 – 32:37
So what sort of reasonable adjustments can be asked for in the workplace? What people have asked you? Because I know, for example, like timeout space where somewhere they can have, you know, it’s their space and they can calm down. What other reasonable adjustments can you ask for that they would say were reasonable and not cost a lot?

Speaker 7
32:37 – 33:04
OK, things in relation to sensory issues can often be addressed with some ease if people understand what the sensory issues are. OK. Communications and things with other members of staff and managing expectations, really. So obviously, there are a lot of things that people with autism can bring to the situation and significant strengths, which are sometimes hidden by some of the difficulties in communicating what those things are.

Speaker 7
33:04 – 33:23
and accessing support in delivering what the person has as a strength. That makes sense. So if somebody’s struggling to communicate that something isn’t quite right, that something’s uncomfortable for them, then that’s going to impact on their ability to do the things that they’re particularly good at as well. So it’s understanding that, I think.

Speaker 7
33:23 – 33:46
Looking at the workplace, looking at the context of the workplace and how things can be moved around a little in order to facilitate that person’s comfort is often what it is. Managing expectations is another. And again, employment law, really. Looking at the duties that an employer has to make these reasonable adjustments is really important.

Speaker 7
33:46 – 33:50
And having a dialogue with them about what they are, hugely important.

Speaker 8
33:50 – 34:08
I think sometimes if you speak to human resources and you’ve got someone who’s a good listening ear, like Patrick’s quite lucky that he’s got somebody who’s listening to him. He’s struggling at the moment, you know, and just needs a few more adjustments made that that can really help. But some people are afraid to ask. So you could either email them.

Speaker 8
34:08 – 34:17
You know, you don’t have to go and speak to them or ask somebody else to ask for you. Definitely. So there’s lots of different ways. If you don’t ask, I always say you don’t get so.

Speaker 8
34:17 – 34:19
But what if they’re not listening? What can they do?

Speaker 7
34:19 – 34:35
They’ve got recourse to law. They’ve got recourse to getting advice from solicitors, barristers who can help with that. And I think, largely speaking, that people are, employers, are very accommodating if they understand. And I think that’s part, again, it’s a training issue, really.

Speaker 7
34:36 – 34:53
I think people, employers, given access to training and understanding better, are more likely to listen. I think people don’t easily take up the position of, well, I’m not going to help this person, because it doesn’t help them in the end. So it’s about understanding, it’s about training and discussing really.

Speaker 8
34:54 – 34:59
Okay, I understand and congratulations are involved that you’ve won an award. So what was that all about then?

Speaker 7
34:59 – 35:19
Well, that was our company beginning with A, who I work closely with my partner, Gary Neal. We deliver training to numbers of people really, sometimes within the NHS, sometimes independent people, sometimes universities, overseas as well. So we get to go to Qatar, for example, we’ve been. Athens, really quite nice.

Speaker 7
35:20 – 35:38
But we signed up a couple of years ago with a company called CourseCheck. And what CourseCheck do is give us the facility for people to give online feedback about our courses. And we’ve just had really good feedback. So what we’ve won is, I think they call it a brilliance award, which is really nice to have.

Speaker 7
35:38 – 35:45
And it’s based on having the best feedback within the small business community for training.

Speaker 8
35:45 – 35:54
So what sort of training can you give? What training do you provide if someone’s listening in? Might be a company, could be a parent, could be an autistic adult. Whoever’s listening in now, what can you offer?

Speaker 7
35:54 – 36:15
It’s very specifically on two measures that are used to diagnose autism. So it’s something called the ADI, which is the Autism Diagnostic Interview, and the ADOS, which is the Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule. And we deliver to various health professionals to teachers sometimes as well. So it’s not necessarily always people that were diagnosed.

Speaker 7
36:16 – 36:39
It’s sometimes people that read about someone’s diagnosis and they read that they’ve done an ADOS and what on earth does that mean sort of thing. And sometimes want to come along to learn a little bit more about what that means. Also academics use ADOS and ADI in their studies to identify people with autism. So it’s a big range of people really that attend the courses.

Speaker 7
36:39 – 36:49
Generally, it’s aimed at, it’s not absolutely stipulated or regulated in that sense, but it’s aimed at degree level professionals, mostly health professionals.

Speaker 8
36:49 – 36:51
So how long does the course last for? Is it a day, two days, weeks?

Speaker 7
36:51 – 37:22
Well, we now do a combination course, which is five days, and that gives people the opportunity to train on both ADOS and ADI, so that’s five days. An ADI training is usually three days and an ADOS training is four days. So the combined one is a bit less because there’s some crossover, some overlap between them. We deliver them to companies on their own site or to NHS hospitals and various places on their site and people come to us sometimes in Cambridge.

Speaker 8
37:22 – 37:31
So what sort of feedback do you get, for example, in the NHS? What sort of questions do they ask you and who within the NHS is asking for the training?

Speaker 7
37:31 – 37:35
Well, it’s usually CAMHS professionals, very often CAMHS professionals.

Speaker 8
37:35 – 37:36
So people listening in, CAMHS, what is that?

Speaker 7
37:36 – 38:06
Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. And it’s there for speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, paediatricians, all of whom are involved in the autism pathway. So the NICE guidelines have set out, which the NICE guidelines are the best practice guidelines for the UK, and they have set out a process by which people should follow certain pathways in order to identify and diagnose autism. And are people following the NICE guidelines?

Speaker 7
38:06 – 38:10
They generally are. In NHS practice, they generally are.

Speaker 8
38:10 – 38:15
Because they’re nice to have, aren’t they, really? It’s recommendations, more or less. They’re not mandatory.

Speaker 7
38:15 – 38:35
They’re not mandatory. And I think sometimes people have misunderstood a little bit about quite what it is that needs to be done, because not every service has every member of staff that the NICE guidelines have stipulated as being relevant. So that’s a struggle sometimes. And the numbers, the numbers involved mean that there’s a long waiting list.

Speaker 7
38:35 – 38:58
When the child gets up, or adults even, when the child gets to CAMHS for example, the long waiting list means that, yeah, they go through the process that the NICE guidelines have stipulated, but it lengthens the waiting list in many ways. So yes, I think they are. I think the answer is yes, they are following the NICE guidelines but are struggling to do it in some ways and that perhaps needs a bit of looking at because some of it isn’t absolutely necessary, I would say.

Speaker 3
38:58 – 38:59
Okay.

Speaker 8
38:59 – 39:18
Do you say more and more adults are getting diagnosed now? Because before they were, if you like, suffering in silence. Yeah. And do you think now it’s because there’s more awareness raising, hopefully more acceptance, but I know we’ve got a long way to go, Do you think more and more adults now are sort of lifting their head up and say, hey, I need some support here.

Speaker 8
39:18 – 39:20
I need some help. Am I on the spectrum?

Speaker 7
39:20 – 39:37
Yeah, definitely. And interestingly, part of that comes, in my own practice anyway, and I guess it’s the same throughout others, is coming from the diagnostic process for the children. So when you do something like the ADI, it’s got something like 100 questions on it. It takes three hours.

Speaker 7
39:37 – 40:02
It takes a long time to do. And in asking all of these questions, quite often parents will then say, or one parent who does the interview, will then say, but actually, I could answer a lot of those for me, or for my partner, my husband or wife. And it’s a little bit about the more children that are being diagnosed, the more adults related to them. So it might be a parent, or it might be a relative, educating people about what autism is, really.

Speaker 7
40:03 – 40:12
And then they come forward and request an assessment for themselves. So that’s happening. Okay, so more female as well coming up? More females definitely coming up, definitely.

Speaker 7
40:12 – 40:22
I’m seeing more females now. And it’s generally awareness as well. So it’s people like yourself who are raising awareness about autism is leading people to kind of recognise some of these things and seek help.

Speaker 8
40:22 – 40:30
So again, if someone’s looking to find your website, where will they find you? And on social media, where can they find you? And have you written any books?

Speaker 7
40:30 – 40:40
Oh, yes. OK, let me do the social media first. So, at carolstottphd is Twitter, carolstottphd on the end of whatever Facebook.

Speaker 8
40:40 – 40:43
So, stott is S-T or double T. Yeah, that’s right.

Speaker 7
40:44 – 41:06
And www.beginningwitha.com is our website. And yes, with a colleague, Louise Freeland, we’ve written a book which was originally an Apple interactive book. So it’s almost like an app in a way, that process of doing that. But we’re currently in discussions with a couple of publishers about getting that into print as well.

Speaker 7
41:06 – 41:19
It’s about sleep. Please, I need it. I need a book about sleep. And it’s aiming really to identify all the things around autism that impact on sleep.

Speaker 7
41:19 – 41:27
Sensory issues, not liking change, these classic characteristic features of autism, how that might impact on sleep. It’s about that.

Speaker 8
41:27 – 41:50
OK, so Carol will be writing an article that we will be sharing on our charity website. So if you would like to read it, hopefully it will be online either Friday or Saturday. So a lot of what Carol has been talking about today will be on the article and links that she has been talking about, too. So I know what it’s like that when you’re listening in, you’re either looking for a pen or you’re trying to find something to write something down.

Speaker 8
41:51 – 41:59
So all of that will be on the charity website in the news piece, which is www dot. Anna Kennedy, online.com.

Speaker 10
42:03 – 42:05
Welcome to Women’s Radio Station.

Speaker 6
42:05 – 42:10
Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women’s Radio Station.

Speaker 10
42:11 – 42:14
Hello and welcome to Judy May Is Listening.

Speaker 8
42:14 – 42:21
Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we’re at Women’s Radio Station supporting women’s well-being and we’re talking all things autism.

Speaker 10
42:21 – 42:26
Women, the possibilities are endless. That’s what makes us different.

Speaker 3
42:30 – 42:38
Hi, I’m Meg Matthews. And I’m Carolyn Van Beers. Join us for a brand new show on Women’s Radio Station. It’s the Meg’s Menopause Show.

Speaker 3
42:38 – 42:54
Yes, for the first time on radio, there’s an entire show dedicated to the menopause. A fresh new approach, where we inform you of all the choices and treatments that are out there. Supportive and empowering, this is your show. So join us every week with a host of celebrity guests.

Speaker 3
42:54 – 42:59
Our very own resident doctor. Where we talk about everything menopause.

Speaker 5
43:00 – 43:27
Hi, I’m Lauren Mishkon. I’m a birth doula and mum of three, and I’m passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women’s Radio Station. Every week, I’ll be here with an expert guest talking about women’s reproductive health, everything fertility, pregnancy, birth and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond.

Speaker 5
43:27 – 43:30
Please join us for an informative and fun hour.

Speaker 4
43:30 – 43:54
My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the radical well-being show supporting women’s well-being. On my show I bring you ordinary women like me and you who are sharing their unique stories. Women who have refused to be defined by their pains, to be silenced by stigma or crushed by stereotypes and who are taking back their power. And together our mission is a simple one and that’s to inspire you to kick away the roadblocks too.

Speaker 4
43:55 – 43:59
To don your wings and be the person that you were born to be.

Speaker 2
44:00 – 44:21
Hi, I’m Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate. And you can listen to my show, Get Booked, here at Women’s Radio Station, daily at 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. Throughout my shows, we’ll talk about the books I’ve read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women’s emotional well-being.

Speaker 2
44:21 – 44:30
If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presentersatwomensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing.

Speaker 10
44:33 – 44:55
You’re listening to Women’s Radio Station, supporting women’s wellbeing. Women’s Radio Station’s creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women’s Radio Station, that’s Women’s Radio STN, or Facebook Women’s Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programmes.

Speaker 8
44:59 – 45:05
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism. We’re live. We’re in Covent Garden, and my guest today is Dr. Carol Stott.

Speaker 8
45:05 – 45:19
So, Carol, in the news at the moment is the coronavirus. It is. And I’ve had so many parents and adults talking about it, getting very stressed. Obviously, the media is hyping it up a lot more.

Speaker 8
45:20 – 45:37
And it is a stressful thing to listen about. And it’s obviously something new. You know, nobody’s heard of it anymore. Any tips and advice for parents that might be trying to support their young person, to help them calm down, autistic adults that might be worried, anything you can think of?

Speaker 7
45:37 – 46:07
I think the main thing is to follow the NHS advice in terms of immediate day-to-day things and day-to-day tips. I don’t think there’s anything particularly, and I’m not a medic, so this is not a medical advice thing, but I don’t think there’s anything particularly that people with autism need to do terribly differently, but following the advice is important. And I think not panicking people, being clear about what the risks are, but then moving on. to the positive things, really.

Speaker 7
46:08 – 46:27
And I think the NHS is doing a pretty good job at doing that. It’s advising people to wash their hands regularly and all of those things I think clearly we should follow. But also, in the same way I think that people with autism are sometimes responding quite negatively and with fear to news items. That’s quite a common thing, isn’t it?

Speaker 7
46:27 – 46:38
To hearing about terrorism, to hearing about these sorts of things. And I think for parents and partners and people close to them be identifying the positives too, you know. That’s important.

Speaker 8
46:39 – 47:01
I think with our kids as well is, if you, a parent, are anxious about it, our children pick up on our anxieties and I know that if I’m, say for example, not feeling so good, like I’m absolutely shattered today, Angela will pick up on that and he’ll come up to me and he’ll stroke the side of my face, so that’s his way of sort of saying, are you alright mum? Or Patrick will start saying, you alright mum?

Speaker 7
47:01 – 47:02
Yeah.

Speaker 8
47:02 – 47:11
Are you all right, Mum? Yeah. It’s just like, you know, you try your best, but, you know, you’re trying to juggle so many different things as a parent. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 8
47:11 – 47:17
And I think probably schools might be useful for children that have, you know, difficulty understanding. Maybe some social stories might help.

Speaker 7
47:18 – 47:32
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And pointing to the positives, I think there’s something, I can’t remember the name of either the person or organization or whatever, but it was to do with terrorist acts and things. And afterwards, the advice was look for the people who help.

Speaker 7
47:32 – 47:38
Do you know what I mean? Have you heard that? And look for the helpers sort of thing. And I think the same might be true here.

Speaker 7
47:38 – 47:49
Look at the people around. There’s hundreds, thousands of people around who are not looking ill and not necessarily being ill. And I think to point those out to people who are misunderstanding the risk.

Speaker 8
47:49 – 47:57
what’s going on with the toilet rolls? Goodness knows, I had no idea. I can’t believe it’s just like… Why toilet rolls?

Speaker 8
47:57 – 48:01
Like, you look at the other countries, but our country, everyone’s buying toilet rolls. Yep.

Speaker 7
48:02 – 48:04
And I just think, oh dear. This is a little strange.

Speaker 8
48:04 – 48:11
Yeah, that’s the other thing that’s stressing people out as well, because going into shops, like pasta shelves are empty, and Calpol and Paracetamol.

Speaker 7
48:11 – 48:11
Paracetamol.

Speaker 8
48:11 – 48:33
Toilet rolls obviously is another one. So, and you’ve got like, for example, I was speaking to Lisa and her son, already eats a specific thing like waffles. So she’s thinking if it’s going to get to that sort of extent, is she going to have to buy a freezer and just stock it with waffles? So yeah, there’s people, obviously, you know, people get stressed and worry about certain different things.

Speaker 8
48:33 – 48:43
So can I just ask you another question? So do you think that people who are autistic should have preferential treatment in the areas of law? What’s your opinion? And I know it’s your opinion.

Speaker 8
48:43 – 48:45
It’s not written in stone. What do you think?

Speaker 7
48:46 – 49:25
I think that the important thing is to give people, I mean thinking about criminal justice in particular, the important thing is to give people with autism the same access to justice as other people have. So it’s not about saying a person with autism can’t be guilty of a crime, of course they can. But it’s about being able to defend themselves when charged and having access to all of the parts of the justice system that anybody who doesn’t have autism would have. In a way, it’s a little bit like, and I guess it’s the same kind of thing, as reasonable adjustments in employment and reasonable adjustments in other ways of life, which people have a duty to provide for people with autism.

Speaker 7
49:25 – 49:38
So it is about treating people with autism a little differently, but only associated with their rights. not associated with them being able to do things that other people are not allowed to do. It’s not about that, but just about justice, really.

Speaker 8
49:39 – 50:16
Yeah, we’ve been trying to raise awareness with the Autism Reality Experience, where we’ve took the bus, I’ve talked about this before, to the first responders, so police, ambulance service and the fire service, and it’s just so much interest and things that they didn’t think about or even professionals that were there that went through that particular experience and said I didn’t even think of half of these things I’m going to have to look at different ways now and adapt processes that we’re going through and as I’ve said before as well is a lot of the first responders themselves have got children and adults with autism and they hadn’t shared it. And then they say, oh, I didn’t know you had a son.

Speaker 8
50:16 – 50:24
But it’s, again, that stigma that’s attached. So I think it’s the more you talk about it, you know, the more it will be accepted. Don’t hide it. It’s just like…

Speaker 7
50:24 – 50:34
There’s another Jessica Kingsley book that I’d recommend called Autism and the Police. OK. And that’s written by a police officer, a retired police officer with autism. OK.

Speaker 7
50:34 – 50:43
And he does a terrific job of talking about the sorts of needs that he would feel he had and what he did when he was with people with autism.

Speaker 8
50:43 – 50:50
Very, very good. OK. That sounds good. So let’s go to advice, because our listeners are always looking for advice.

Speaker 8
50:50 – 50:59
So what type of advice would you give to families and people with autism in court? So what things, tips, what can you give them?

Speaker 7
50:59 – 51:10
I would immediately engage with the solicitor who’s involved and explain about autism. Don’t assume that they know. That’s the first thing. Don’t assume that they know what autism is and what the implications of it are.

Speaker 7
51:11 – 51:25
Educate them. Tell them. And quite often, the sorts of things, as people will know, the sorts of things that people with autism have difficulty with, are not immediately obvious. The things that people assume are OK.

Speaker 7
51:25 – 51:43
And don’t assume that the solicitor knows all about those things. Talk about them. And immediately, I think, from the beginning, talk about extra help, an intermediary, potentially. Make sure, for example, even before that, there’s an appropriate adult involved in every interview, I would say.

Speaker 8
51:43 – 51:49
So what is an appropriate adult? Because somebody listening in again might think, well, what does that mean? Appropriate adult?

Speaker 7
51:49 – 51:59
It’s somebody who can be and should be with the person during the initial interview with the police. It can be a family member. It can be a professional. It can be somebody the person knows well.

Speaker 7
52:00 – 52:25
But it’s somebody that can have or does have the role in the initial questioning of helping the police and the solicitors involved understand what the person with autism will struggle with. It’s similar to an intermediary, except that the appropriate adult is there, in a sense, for the person with autism. Whereas the intermediary is there for the court. So the intermediary’s role is not to support the person with autism particularly, nor the court, but both.

Speaker 7
52:27 – 52:39
The appropriate adult is a step before that. That means that assumptions aren’t made about how long somebody can be questioned. It might be a little less long than somebody typically would be able to cope with. The sensory issues, these sort of things.

Speaker 8
52:39 – 52:52
I think that where autistic adults, for example, have more difficulty is that the more articulate they are, the less the police sort of believe them. I’m not sure if I’m wording this correctly.

Speaker 7
52:52 – 52:53
No, I know what you mean.

Speaker 8
52:53 – 52:55
Yeah, so would you agree with that?

Speaker 7
52:55 – 53:16
Yeah, absolutely. And the more able someone looks in terms, perhaps, of communication and things, the less obvious it is that they do need that support. So somebody can be very verbal, very articulate, but not have the social cognition. So what I mean by that is the person-to-person understanding of implications, of what people mean when they’re being ironic, these sorts of things.

Speaker 7
53:17 – 53:30
And quite often in police interrogation, you’re not even really allowed to call it that anymore. It’s questioning. But in police interrogation, The whole point, for a lot of time, was to actually catch the person out. You can understand why that is.

Speaker 7
53:30 – 53:40
And so those things that police officers employ to try and catch somebody out, people with autism are more prone to when there’s nothing to be caught out about, if you see what I mean.

Speaker 8
53:40 – 53:56
Can I ask, for example, if they’re questioning them, as in verbal questioning, sometimes it can go over the top of their head. Is it possible to ask for the questions to be written down so that the person can read the question and then they can process it and give them a little bit more time to answer?

Speaker 7
53:56 – 54:06
Absolutely. There’s huge things like that. Think in terms of the reasonable adjustments that generally are made in employment, in school and so on. Many, many of these can be requested.

Speaker 7
54:06 – 54:08
OK.

Speaker 8
54:08 – 54:14
So if they didn’t want to answer verbally and they wanted to type their answer, say, for example, on an iPad or something, are you allowed to do that?

Speaker 7
54:14 – 54:42
Yeah, I think so. I’m not sure exactly what all of the rules are, but certainly I know that you can ask for that to be taken into consideration. And the other thing that I would say to people is to emphasise to the solicitors, to whoever’s involved in the justice process, which I’ve done as an expert witness from time to time as well, is emphasise, for example, to the judge, that you’re there to help them. So I’ve sort of had sometimes some slightly snidey comments about, you know, so you’re here to help the person.

Speaker 7
54:42 – 54:49
No, I’m not there to help the person. I’m there to help the court. Yeah. And it helps the judge if in the end they understand what the needs of the persons are.

Speaker 8
54:49 – 55:02
So a lot of these processes that you go through can be quite stressful. And I must admit, I probably get quite frustrated for the person. So obviously you need time to wind down and relax. What do you do?

Speaker 7
55:02 – 55:06
Wow. I’m currently learning bluegrass guitar.

Speaker 8
55:06 – 55:08
And what is it? Well, there you go.

Speaker 7
55:08 – 55:14
It’s kind of like… Now, the bluegrass people, if anybody’s listening, wouldn’t like me to say this, but it’s kind of like country music. It’s not really. But it’s bluegrass.

Speaker 7
55:14 – 55:25
It’s an American, very exciting, vibrant music. A bit like the Dixie Chicks, I guess people might have heard of them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.

Speaker 7
55:25 – 55:43
So, bluegrass guitar involves a lot of flat picking, which is picking the tunes out, and I’m learning that at the moment, which is a bit frustrating for me and the people around me. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. We’re going to a summer school fairly soon to, yeah, a week’s lessons on bluegrass guitar.

Speaker 7
55:43 – 55:50
I read a lot. I read enormous amounts of nonsense sometimes as well as good things too. And I quite like doing jigsaws.

Speaker 8
55:50 – 55:57
I’ve taken to doing jigsaws. They’re quite contemplative. My husband likes jigsaws, I find them frustrating.

Speaker 7
55:57 – 56:01
I love it, and I have something in the background on Netflix whilst doing the jigsaws.

Speaker 8
56:01 – 56:08
I love Netflix. It was Patrick that got me into Netflix, and then he’s the one that doesn’t watch it, and I do. He binge-watched it.

Speaker 7
56:08 – 56:09
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 8
56:09 – 56:21
In the middle of the night when Angelo’s up, I think, oh, put Netflix on. Put Netflix on, it’ll be fine. I’d like to say thank you so much for coming along, for chatting. And again, don’t forget, Carol will be writing an article.

Speaker 8
56:21 – 56:35
It will be on the charity website. So lots of links that she’s mentioned today will be within that article. If you’d like to ask Carol a question, you can put the question through the charity website. Or just to remind you, what’s the handles on your social media?

Speaker 7
56:36 – 56:46
It’s Twitter at carolstopphd. search Facebook for Carol Stott PhD and our website is www.beginningwitha.com.

Speaker 8
56:46 – 56:59
Thank you very much. So again, if you’d like to be one of my speakers on supporting women’s wellbeing, all things autism, please contact me via the charity website or you can contact us on 01895 540187.

Speaker 10
56:59 – 57:17
Have a good week, everyone. Thank you. Welcome to the women’s radio station supporting women’s wellbeing. Women’s Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women’s well-being.

Speaker 10
57:17 – 57:30
We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website, womensradiostation.com, for more information.

Speaker 11
57:31 – 57:52
Hi, everyone, and welcome to The Femaling Show. I am your host, Nicole Goodman, and I am a woman’s identity expert and coach. As women, we fall into different phases of identity through our adult life, and during these, our challenges can look pretty similar. Here at WRS, I will be talking to you about the real issues we all face, and even the ones we can silently struggle with.

Speaker 11
57:52 – 58:00
Through honest, heartfelt conversation here at Femaling, you will learn how to accept yourself, understand yourself, and be yourself.

Speaker 3
58:01 – 58:16
Hi, I’m Carolyn Van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women’s Radio Station. It’s Mother’s Hour. If, like me, you’re a mum juggling far too many balls and dropping most of them, this is definitely the show for you.

Speaker 3
58:17 – 58:31
We’ll examine the highs and lows of motherhood and make sure you laugh out loud as we take on this challenging role together. With spoonfuls of advice, incredible stories, it will be a refreshing, honest, and funny look at being a mum.

Speaker 9
58:31 – 58:42
I’m Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower & Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone.

Speaker 9
58:43 – 59:00
Many women want to be smarter with their cash, but just don’t know where to start. At EmpowerAndEnrich.org, you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at EmpowerAndEnrich.org, and let’s change your future together.

Speaker 1
59:02 – 59:17
Are you struggling with money? Turn to Us is a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track.

Speaker 1
59:18 – 59:30
Whether you’re thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk

Speaker 10
59:33 – 59:54
Welcome to the Women’s Radio Station, supporting women’s wellbeing. Women’s Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programmes. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com.

Speaker 10
59:55 – 59:58
Women’s Radio Station, supporting women’s wellbeing.