[Speaker 2] (0:00 – 5:10)
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism and what a beautiful sunny day today it is. So we’ve been very, very busy, children going back to school, my son Patrick’s gone off to Lyme Regis.

So on his dinosaur fossil hunt, as usual, he’s having a great time and obviously I’m receiving lots and lots of photographs of dinosaur bones and everything to do with dinosaurs. So we’ve been very busy. We’re preparing for our three months that we had to postpone from last year.

So autism’s got talent, which will be happening at St. Ives on October the 2nd. So excited. And then our 10th year birthday celebrations will be on October the 16th and then in November we will be announcing the finalists for the Autism Hero Awards, where we have so many finalists and so many nominations that were just like it was so hard for our judges to choose the finalists.

But we will be celebrating together in November at the Chelsea Harbor Hotel. So just a few little bits before I introduce to you my lovely guest. So something I found out on there’s a magazine.

I don’t know if you know it. It’s called S.E.N. Special Educational Needs magazine. It’s very, very good.

And it comes out every quarter. And there’s so much information on there for people, whether they’re in education, whether they’re in social care. And the one I’m looking at the minute is the October 2021, which is issue one for one fall.

And there’s some little bits in there that I just wanted to share. So there’s three iPads or iPhones for children with a vision impairment aged three to 18. Guide Dogs New Service Tech for All helps children with a vision impairment across the UK to access their own devices at home.

Support learning or simply travel and explore the interests and activities they enjoy. The devices are excellent accessibility features built in and online guides are provided to get them started and to ensure that they know how to stay safe online. The devices are completely free of charge with the only requirement being proof of vision impairment.

So if you’re interested, it’s guide dogs dot org dot UK forward slash tech for all. Just repeat that again. Guide dogs dot org dot UK tech for all.

And that’s if you have a visual impairment age between three and 18. Just wanted to share with you the test S.E.N. show back on track for October. I’ve spoken at the test S.E.N. show a few times now, and that is the leading S.E.N. show for people who don’t know special educational needs show is on track to return to this business design center in London on the eighth and the ninth of October. So check it out. Seminars are twenty pounds plus VAT register free and book. If you want to have a little walk around, there’s so many stores there and lots of information.

So again, if you want to check out the S.E.N. magazine, it’s definitely a good buy. Last thing I just wanted to share with you is that I’ve been part of a campaign called Let Us Learn To. And there’s a group of us that have got together a center letter to Boris Johnson and also a video was created.

And basically, the bottom line of the letter is we urge you to take immediate effects steps to improve outcome for disabled children and young people and to intervene to change the trajectory of the S.E.N. review, ensuring transparency and meaningful engagement with disabled children and young people and their parents carers as equal partners throughout. Not as an afterthought when key decisions affecting our future have already been made. If you’re interested in checking out the video and also the letter, please check out the charity website www.annaKennedyonline.com.

If you want to follow everything that we’re doing with the charity or what I’m up to with my sons, please follow us on social media. It’s at AnnaKennedy1 on Twitter, AnnaKennedy Online on Facebook and at AnnaKennedy OBE on Instagram. So my guest today is Professor Ian C.E. Hale. And Dr. Hale was born in the historic city and county of Bristol in England. He is a member of British mentor, the Academia Constantia. I quite can’t say that and the Athenian Society and a graduate of Portsmouth, Bristol and Bath Spa University.

His professional background is in further and higher education. Special educational needs both mental and physical. Dr. Hale has an international diploma UNESCO in integrated medicine and has studied hematology, foreign forensics, genetics and neuroscience to an advanced level, which have provided the medical underpinning for his book Asperger’s Autism New, which we’ll be talking about a little bit later on in the program. He holds two PhDs and two fellowships through the United Nations. Wow, Ian, you’ve been a busy bee. Welcome to the show.

And thank you for joining me.

[Speaker 1] (5:11 – 5:25)
Well, thank you very much for inviting me, Anna. And hello to to all the audience who are going to be listening to this live and around the world. And whatever time of day it is for you, I hope you’re having a good one.

[Speaker 2] (5:25 – 5:25)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (5:26 – 6:40)
So on top of that, I’m a I’m a member of the World Academy of Medical Sciences. I’m an associate of the Russian Academy of Science and an associate of the Moscow Institute of Science and Technology. Wow.

Well, and I’ve got 65 years experience of being a neurodiverse, a very neurodiverse person. So, you know, plus all the education background. I was a professor.

I was a senior lecturer at Bach College and Bach University. And yeah, so I kind of bring a lot of a lot of different angles. Went into writing the book that Anna Kennedy has said.

The first edition was published in California by I first under the very famous Professor Newton Lee, the computer science pioneer in 2018. And the second edition was published about I think it’s about six or eight weeks ago, which is an expansion of the first edition. And, you know, we can be talking about that later.

[Speaker 2] (6:41 – 6:53)
I’ve actually ordered my copy. It hasn’t arrived yet, so hopefully it will arrive soon. So can we go back a little bit if you don’t mind?

So you were born in Bristol. So tell me a little bit about growing up.

[Speaker 1] (6:54 – 9:01)
Well, yes, I was born in Bristol Children’s Hospital. My parents had a tiny bungalow in Keynesian, which is kind of on the rural edge, about six miles from Bristol. And, you know, we had a really tough time.

And, you know, my father was one of the most decorated Royal Air Force heroes of World War Two. And my mother was a very senior Navy nursing officer. She nursed Winston Churchill among other people.

But after the war, things didn’t go at all well. Bristol was very badly damaged and all that sort of thing. And my father, the company that my father worked for, didn’t look well on ex-servicement.

You know, we grew up, I grew up really poor. And I mean, you know, not enough to not being able to heat the house in the winter poor and not being able to afford proper shoes. We had to stuff our shoes with newspaper and that to try to keep warm in the winter.

It was pretty grim. When I was born, my mother, obviously being a very senior nurse, realized that quite early on that I was a little different to other kids. One thing, I didn’t sleep during the night.

I would only sleep during the day. I had a lot of food intolerances. I had to be bottle fed.

And I don’t know that. But I always had friends, you know, I always had friends to play with. And, you know, then then I was put in nursery school, which was a horrific and very, very, very traumatizing and very abusive place called St. John’s Nursery School in Keynesian. And, you know, they were they were appalling. I still remember I was like two years old. I still remember some of the things that they did to me.

So, you know, I had the experience of, you know, being treated like a neurodiverse person. They like children to be able to, you know, to take the afternoon nap. And, of course, you know, that’s not me.

[Speaker 2] (9:02 – 9:16)
So why do you think you find it difficult to sleep? Because I’m interested in this because obviously my youngest son, Angelo, is quite a poor sleeper. He only tends to need two or three hours sleep, which is hard for me because obviously I’d like a little bit more.

[Speaker 1] (9:16 – 11:33)
Of course, he has. Well, I’ve written up quite a long article recently about the the value of neurodiversity, which can be which can be viewed by everybody on LinkedIn. And I’ll be providing links to the link to my LinkedIn later on.

About the value of neurodiversity. And I noticed that with all the neurodiverse people that I’ve dealt with over the years and met, you know, as friends, professionally, as colleagues, you know, and as clients, my consultancy, that they all share certain characteristics. And one of them is that they all have very, very different sleep patterns, very non-industrial, very natural.

And I think that one of the one of the reasons that neurodiversity has continued through the ages and because it’s a it’s a basic tribal survival imperative to have people alert and awake during the night. You think when we used to, you know, before we became city and village dwellers, you know, when we were we were living in the countryside or in caves or, you know, all that sort of thing. Pre-civilization, if you will.

The group, the tribe, and it’s normally a family tribe, you know, where they’re most vulnerable at night. And at night is when most predators come out to hunt. So to have people who slept during the day but or wide awake at night absolutely enabled the survival of the tribe.

And I think that’s why that genetic characteristic has been has been carried on and why people who are neurodiverse make such great night workers. You know, you look at many of the great minds of history who have been proven to be neurodiverse and they’ve all all of them done all their work at night. They’re their best work.

So I think it’s a vital thing as part of the diversity of human survival.

[Speaker 2] (11:34 – 11:54)
I was going to ask and I get a lot of questions like from parents saying, oh, is there a particular way that we should set up my son or my daughter’s bedroom to help them sleep or, you know, is it that it’s got to be like minimalistic in there? Should we have a football tube in there? You know, are they allowed to have an iPad?

What’s your opinion?

[Speaker 1] (11:56 – 13:46)
Well, some tips from my own and from others experience. And I mean, I’ve written a lot of a great deal and about this at great length in the in the book, because sleep is pretty much the most important thing that humans do. Lack of sleep leads to every kind of physical problem.

Sleep is the best doctor in the world. No question about that. So whatever it takes is is my attitude.

I think, first of all, that parents have to make authorities aware that their child has a particular sleep pattern and they have to find out what that individual child or that individual adult’s natural sleep pattern is and their education, their life has to be adapted around that because once you start messing with people’s sleep patterns, you you mess up their brains. People who don’t get enough sleep, the brain cells literally start to eat each other. And that leads to early onset dementia, among many other things, not to mention destroying the immune system.

And the fact that so many of us are forced to live unnaturally and not get the amount of sleep that we need and the quality of sleep that we need explains I mean, scandalously, why people with autism are statistically unlikely to live beyond the age of 46. People like myself with Asperger’s, the average age of death or a person with Asperger’s is 39 years. I just want everyone to take a minute to take those figures in.

[Speaker 2] (13:46 – 13:48)
Really? Why is that then?

[Speaker 1] (13:50 – 16:39)
Because they’re often because they’re driven to suicide and insanity. And a lot of that has to do with the way that society treats us. And the and the fact that we’re not given the help we need to sleep and, you know, and the financial and social backing that we need.

People with autism, for example, are four times more likely to die of covid than their non autistic peer group. And it’s an absolute scandal. And no one’s talked about it.

And one of the reasons I do what I do and why I do it so passionately and one of the reasons that I wrote the book is to is to try to make people a lot more aware of the real problems and dangers that come with being neurodiverse. You know, not only Asperger’s, not only autistic, but people who are bipolar, people who have Rett syndrome, people have Williams syndrome, you know, people have schizophrenia, you know, and numerous other things as well. ADHD, for example.

You know, without going through the entire, you know, spectrum from A to Z. And, you know, this, you know, one of the reasons I wrote the book is if I want a lot of people to read it and it’s why we kept it inexpensive because, you know, we want to create, you know, a wave of saying this is a scandal. This is enough.

This needs to change. You spoke about environment. First of all, darkness and silence are the most important features for promoting good sleep.

Some people like a little pink noise in the background, particularly if they if they live on a main road. I’ve always found that silicon earplugs have been very helpful to me. And if there’s to be a little ambient light, a number of studies have shown that either a green ambience or a dark red ambience are the best things to aid sleep.

OK. But darkness and noise resistance are the most important things. And I know a lot of people, particularly children, derive a lot of benefit from using a weighted blanket because it gives that extra feeling of security.

And I can’t overemphasize the importance of, you know, of having a having a soft toy in bed as well. You know, that’s hopefully that a child has grown up with.

[Speaker 2] (16:39 – 16:49)
Yes. Can you talk to me if you don’t mind a little bit about what school was like for you and how did you get through each day? And also, how old were you when you were diagnosed?

[Speaker 1] (16:50 – 20:52)
Well, initially, I mean, it was because I obviously I went to primary school when I was five years old and it was six years of completely and utterly wasted time apart from playing rugby and swimming. I hated it. They hated me.

So my parents were, you know, really unhappy with the school. It was a it was a rubbish school anyway, called Kelston Road School in Keynesian. It’s closed now, so I can say this.

And, you know, it was it was a it was a boring, boring experience. And I used to I used to take books from home to school. I mean, I didn’t study anything.

I mean, I’ll tell you a story that really encapsulates the whole thing. I was at home one evening and and there was a knock on the front door. And one of the this is about half past five or six o’clock.

It was after we’d had tea and one of the teachers came in and wanted to speak to my parents. I was in my bedroom and my dad kind of told me more of a story afterwards. But apparently what she’d done was it was to come round and say, you know, that we you know, we’re really worried about any seven years old.

He can’t read or write. He doesn’t do anything at school. You know, he’s got no future at all.

And my parents said, what do you mean? Doesn’t read and write. That’s ridiculous.

She said, no, we get nothing from him at all. Nothing doesn’t say anything. Just looks out the window most of the time or just, you know, actually isn’t visible at school.

So my dad called me in and said, get up, get a book out of the bookshelve in over and got a book. And he said, open it. So I opened it and it happened to be a book of poems.

And the poem I opened it to quite randomly was Tennyson’s The Charge of the Light Brigade. And my dad said, read that book, Mrs. Crawford. I read out two pages of it.

The expression on her face was unbelievable. It really was. It was it was almost worth the, you know, the the whole unpleasantness.

And then my dad said, OK, that’s fine. Can you go and get your books? Because my parents used to buy me books to write in.

I write notes. By the time I was nine, I was writing poetry. I’d write descriptions of things, ideas I had, make drawings.

So I brought some of these in and, you know, gave them to my dad. And he writes perfectly well. And my father said, you need to leave now.

And she just went, you know. My parents took me to see a Navy psychologist after that. And he diagnosed me PDD NLS that I had a developmental disorder, but no origin specified.

And apparently he told my parents that, you know, you your son is there’s so much going on in his mind, there’s more going on in his mind that he can express in any way. So he doesn’t say anything or doesn’t do very much because he’s he’s trying to process all of the thoughts. He’ll be able to do that when he’s older and then you’ll see something.

And yeah, when I was about 13, suddenly I I was able to do that. And in the interim, my father had got six promotions in a very few years. And we went from really seriously poor to, you know, having a nice house.

My parents moved me from to a much, much better school. This was when I was 11 or 12, I guess.

[Speaker 2] (20:53 – 20:53)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (20:55 – 21:01)
And and a year later, I was, you know, I was in the top stream and and doing really well.

[Speaker 2] (21:01 – 21:02)
And that’s fantastic.

[Speaker 1] (21:03 – 21:45)
I was playing cricket and rugby for the school. And then I did my own levels and I did my A levels. And then I then I left for a year and trained as a.

An analytical chemist, laboratory chemist before going on to university. And then I left the university. I didn’t achieve what I was hoping for because the grant system has changed.

And I couldn’t take up the I was offered a straight defill physics and to study paralinguistics. But that fell through because they they abolished the ground. Thanks, Margaret Thatcher, for that one.

[Speaker 2] (21:47 – 21:49)
Did you become a teacher as well?

[Speaker 1] (21:49 – 22:06)
Yeah, no, that was one of my, you know, it was one of the three things I wanted to do when I, you know, when I was a kid, I wanted either to be a teacher or a grand prix racing driver or a biochemist.

[Speaker 2] (22:07 – 22:08)
Three very different professions.

[Speaker 1] (22:08 – 22:13)
Yeah, well, you know, I’m I’m diverse in the final analysis.

[Speaker 2] (22:13 – 22:15)
So what did you teach?

[Speaker 1] (22:16 – 22:40)
I taught right across the board from primary school to giving being guest lecturer at Turo Law School, the Institute of Jewish Law. And, you know, that was, you know, beyond postdoctoral level. So I’ve literally taught every kind of teaching areas.

And a huge variety of subjects.

[Speaker 2] (22:41 – 22:46)
Did you actually teach any autistic individuals, children or adults?

[Speaker 1] (22:46 – 23:35)
Oh, yes, I worked at Bath College for the S.E.N. Department. And I worked previously at a two special centers and I worked for I worked a contract for about a year with Grand Metropolitan, the hotel group. As part of their training and recruitment, and that included being trained as a drug counselor.

And, you know, some of the people involved with that were neurodiverse. So, yeah, I had a lot of hands on experience with with a whole range of, you know, mental and physical disabilities from minor to very severe. And in both cases, I mean, one of the units I worked in was that was a secure unit, you know, so.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (23:37 – 23:57)
And neurodiverse and neurodiversity is now widely used. What what does it mean to you? So if you had to describe it to sit, we’ve got some parents that are listening in that their children have just been diagnosed with autism.

What what does neurodiverse mean to you? And how can you explain it to people who are just starting out on the journey?

[Speaker 1] (23:58 – 28:28)
Neurodiversity means having a brain that’s different from normal. OK, it’s a it’s a simple medical fact. These conditions are inherited.

And if you examine the brains of people, for example, with autism and compare with a brain of someone who is neurotypical, who is normal. There are distinct physical differences, structural differences, and they are visible to the naked eye using an MRI scanner. And there are also significant differences in in the biochemistry of people who are neurodiverse.

In the same way, if you put the brain of someone who is autistic next to the brain of someone who is schizophrenic, it’s it’s very noticeable, the physical difference. So it’s basically, as I say, having a structurally and chemically different brain. And that, of course, results in a whole different perception of the world in all five senses and intellectually.

I mean, one of the things that disturbs me the most is that, you know, people with neurodiversities often have extraordinary talents which are completely ignored and we are wasting so much brilliance. And a few companies now, IBM, Apple, SAP, Microsoft have begun to to twig that people with neurodiversities, you know, have a huge amount to offer. And one of the things that my my new business is looking to do in terms of business is is find these ultra talented people for, you know, specific tasks and and also to train doctors, teachers, law enforcement, the legal profession, local counsel, social services, you know, most of whom are absolutely not aware what neurodiversity really means and what it feels like to live it, because one of the things that people don’t seem to understand, and I’ve explained this a lot more in the book, is that where you have a genetic difference, which causes, let’s say, for example, autism, it’s not confined to that. A difference in one part of the human genetic structure means a difference in all parts of the structure. It’s a bit like poking a jelly, if you will.

And, you know, there are things that go with neurodiversities called comorbidities. In other words, they are they are conditions that you will always find when someone is neurodiverse. We talked about the sleep pattern issue.

But another one is that people with neurodiversities always have gut problems. And a classic example would have been Kurt Cobain, you know, the founder of Nirvana. I mean, he had he had terrible gastric problems, which is what led him to self-medicate, of course, which, you know, didn’t do him any good.

And but, you know, I mean, what an extraordinary genius. We know his diagnosis. He had Asperger’s and he had he had schizophrenia as well.

And with that went these gut problems. So he was always severely in pain and because they didn’t know how to treat it and they didn’t understand the concept of comorbidity. So again, that’s that’s another reason why I wrote the book to to increase understanding, because I mean, people with neurodiversities are always ultra sensitive in all the senses.

And that’s why creating that environment, that that sleep part, if you will, that we discussed earlier for children and for adults is so vitally important.

[Speaker 2] (28:29 – 29:13)
So if I wanted to ask you two separate questions. So, for example, the parents were just starting out on the journey or may think that their son or their daughter may be on the autism spectrum. What advice would you give?

And also, as an adult, I know a lot of people are getting a late diagnosis now at age 40, 50, as I’ve said before, gentlemen, age 75. Do you think it’s worth going for a diagnosis as an adult? And the only reason I’m saying that is that I’ve spoken to some adults where they’ve said it’s the worst thing they ever did.

And then other people said it’s really it’s fantastic. I feel like a big way it’s been lifted. So let’s start off with children.

So if you’ve got a child and you think they may be on the spectrum, what tips and advice thinking in hindsight now would you give parents?

[Speaker 1] (29:14 – 29:54)
Read my book. It’s what they do. It’s what the book is designed to do.

But I mean, it’s all serious because I demystify all the jargon that teachers and psychologists and doctors use. I explain what it is. I explain how it’s diagnosed and I explain what it means in real life terms and in layman’s language.

In other words, it’s kind of a translation from doctories into normal English. OK. Yeah, the the tip that I would give is I give three.

[Speaker 2] (29:54 – 29:54)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (29:55 – 33:26)
Always fight for your child. Yeah. Always listen to your child.

Remember, the child is perceiving, feeling the world in a in a way that a non-autistic or non-neurodiverse person can’t. So you’ve got to believe the child. I mean, one of the I mean, my parents actually were great.

But one of the things that I I really had a problem with them about was that I was continually complaining to them that they have the TV too loud and I couldn’t sleep. And they say I was tiny. You know, you’re imagining you’re imagining noises.

You know, you’re it’s all in your mind. And I got I got this from other people, too. And when I started, I said about being working for the laboratory when I left school, obviously, before you were allowed to work in a lab, you have to have a complete physical and that included having a hearing test.

And that was it was discovered that my hearing range is totally different from normal. I mean, I hear dog whistles, you know, I can hear back calls. So I was not making it up, whatever my parents thought.

And I can hear things other people can’t hire notes. Bass notes, not so much. It compensates that that end of the spectrum.

So, yeah, listen to your child. Fight for your child above all. Believe your child and act on what your child is telling you, whether they’re telling you by language or whether they’re telling you by behavior.

A badly behaved or disruptive child is a traumatized child, is a tired child, is a child that’s hungry, a child that’s thirsty or a child in pain. And that may be the only way that child can communicate distress. And this is something that teachers don’t understand.

And that is why they mess up so badly. And that applies to mainstream education. But it also applies to the special schools, too, because I’ve seen practices go on in special schools that that are horrifying without going into details.

Yeah. And it’s, you know, severely abusive. It’s not surprising that so many people with neurodiversities end up with PTSD.

And, you know, that’s an article I’ve also written recently on LinkedIn. As for diagnosis. Well, as I said, I got a diagnosis of seven and we never got the slightest help of any sort.

And then I actually got a full diagnosis by Professor William Fraser at the special unit at Cardiff University when I was forty five or forty six when he he revealed my Asperger’s and a lot else about me as well and did a whole lot of psychometric tests. And it was an extraordinary experience. It was a big shock, and it’s something that, you know, all these years later, I’m still I’m still trying to process.

I’m really glad I know. Because now I know that I knew then that I can speak of the subject with, you know, real life authority, so to speak. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (33:28 – 33:31)
Do you feel you’ve ever been discriminated against? Because that’s something else.

[Speaker 1] (33:32 – 33:55)
Oh, constantly, I mean, I was kicked out of out of the job I had at the time. I’m not I’m not going to go into great details. As soon as they found out I had an Asperger’s diagnosis, they said, oh, we’re not going to renew you.

We can’t renew your contract. The insurance company won’t cover it. Because people with Asperger’s are well known to turn into mad acts murderers.

I quote, by the way, there.

[Speaker 2] (33:56 – 33:57)
Oh, my word.

[Speaker 1] (33:58 – 34:58)
I mean, if I could find a lawyer out there and sue them after all these years, I’d love to do that. It was it was office politics and it was just an excuse because I spoke to a local newspaper about some of the very some of the practices that were that were going on and not least within their their S.E.N. unit. So they wanted me shut up, basically.

So, yeah, I mean, I’m constantly discriminated against, you know, because the majority of people can pick those among them who are different. So, you know, it’s very isolated and, you know, it’s very difficult to communicate sometimes. Social services have been almost, you know, I’ve been very bad in the main.

So I so many people with neurodiversity’s end up homeless. I mean, I did briefly, nearly. Well, I did.

[Speaker 2] (34:59 – 35:02)
How was that for you, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Speaker 1] (35:03 – 35:48)
Well, it’s hell, obviously, you know, it’s absolutely hell. I mean, you know, being that alone in the world, you know, and being sick as well, because as I say, if you’ve got one genetic problem, you’ve got more than one genetic problem. Yeah, you know, I was very lucky.

I’ve got a real good that I had a phone and a good friend. Otherwise, I certainly wouldn’t be here having this conversation now. I know my friend.

I know my friend will listen to this. And I’m not going to say that friend’s name is because I know it would be very embarrassing because he’s a private person. He’s saved literally hundreds of people over the years.

He’s an amazing guy.

[Speaker 2] (35:49 – 35:51)
Wow. So you’re living in Wales at the minute.

[Speaker 1] (35:52 – 35:53)
Yes, I am. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (35:54 – 35:58)
So so what you were born in Bristol. So how have you ended up in Wales?

[Speaker 1] (35:59 – 36:51)
A lot of circuitous route. I’ve traveled about two thirds away around the world, I guess, from one form or another, from Japan to Russia, to the Big Sur, to San Diego, a lot of Europe, mostly the Balkans and and more into Baltic. I’ve been to Russia and yet France, Italy, Ireland, spent a lot of time in Spain over the years.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think I’ve been to India twice. So I consider myself to be, I think, reasonably well traveled.

And it’s very interesting to see how neurodiversities within each of these cultures are, you know, are the attitude or lack of attitude, I guess. I’m sorry.

[Speaker 2] (36:52 – 37:00)
So if people want to get hold of your book, which is Asperger’s Autism and You, where can they find your book?

[Speaker 1] (37:01 – 37:11)
It’s available for Amazon dot com in any country in the world as a paperback or as an e-book and also it’s Kindle friendly as well.

[Speaker 2] (37:12 – 37:20)
OK. And also you talked to me about your new company. What’s it called?

And if people are interested in having a look, where can they find it?

[Speaker 1] (37:20 – 37:50)
It’s called Justinian Associates, and I will provide you with the link for it. I will also provide the link for my page on LinkedIn. I’m available on LinkedIn.

I’m available on Facebook. And if people want to contact me, then they can. My email is public on both Facebook and on LinkedIn.

[Speaker 2] (37:50 – 37:51)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (37:52 – 39:53)
And yeah, I’ve written two books about the coronavirus and I do wish people had read them. The second one came out very recently on Smash Words. It’s a ninety nine cent download.

It’s twenty nine pages. And if the advice in there, and it’s not just me, other people have been involved in putting this together, were properly followed, you know, we could get rid of this plague very quickly. I’ve also designed a special clinical face mask, which I’ve tested as a as a long working prototype, but as an actual mask itself that is fantastically comfortable, at least 98 percent effective.

And I’m looking for a company to buy the copyright to it with the co-designer. And it’s revolutionary to be about 15 or 20 quid. It’s washable.

It’s got a filter in it, which is which is changeable and recyclable. So it’s it’s green friendly. And, you know, that on its own would probably have more effect in if people wore them properly because you can sleep in it.

And I the product, the little mock up I made, I did sleep in. It doesn’t leave marks. You know, you’re not going to see this horrific pictures of overworked NHS staff, you know, marked up with the masks they have to wear.

And this is at least three percent. What is at least 98 percent effective in. And it will keep out dust, pollen, smoke, as well as every kind of germ, fungus, viral or bacterial.

So the great thing is if a person is wearing it is infected, the air they breathe out and cough, for example, that will also be decontaminated as well. So everybody wins.

[Speaker 2] (39:54 – 40:46)
Well, so people want to read Ian’s article, it will be on the charity website under latest news. So that will be www.anna Kennedy online under latest news. We update our website every week.

So Marla, who’s one of my charity champions, she looks after the website. Lovely lady with two sons on the spectrum. So if you want to check out, we’ve also got a resources page.

Lots of information about our events. So and as I say, Ian’s article will be on the charity website. So we just talked a little bit about coronavirus.

Can I ask you how lockdown affected you if at all? Because I have spoken to this. This hasn’t affected them at all.

And others where it’s just been devastating. So how has it affected you?

[Speaker 1] (40:46 – 41:19)
It devastated me. I was completely, you know, as I as I as I joked, but it wasn’t a joke to me as I said to some friends, you know, I do not do I do not do well in confinement. And it was I was in Spain at the time I got trapped in Spain and they’re locked down with fierce.

I mean, there were there were tanks on the streets and the towns in the big towns and there were there are men on the streets. And you just did not leave your house.

[Speaker 2] (41:20 – 41:20)
Wow.

[Speaker 1] (41:21 – 41:35)
50 meters was as far as you were allowed to go. And yeah, it did. Yeah, it just completely.

I don’t know anybody. It hasn’t left deep scars on. And that includes me.

[Speaker 2] (41:35 – 41:37)
I’m sorry to hear that.

[Speaker 1] (41:37 – 42:18)
It was and what’s more, it was completely and utterly unnecessary and completely ineffective. It was it was an extraordinarily bad idea. And of course, as soon as they they relaxed it, they overrelaxed it to to try to get some revenue.

And of course, it exploded in Spain and it’s going to explode in Spain again over this winter. You know, I can’t see. I can’t see how Spain again.

They say they’ve got a 70 percent vaccination rate. And that’s that’s let’s say that’s a very interesting interpretation of their statistics.

[Speaker 2] (42:19 – 42:31)
So what do you do to help with your mental health to keep you ticking over every day? What do what do you do? And, you know, do you have any hobbies that help you?

What is it that you do to help with your own mental health and well-being?

[Speaker 1] (42:31 – 42:32)
I write poetry.

[Speaker 2] (42:33 – 42:33)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (42:34 – 45:09)
I’ve written five books. I’m looking for I have published some of them, but I’m looking for a good publisher. You know, I love to be I love to be part of nature.

I love to be near the sea or by rivers or in forests. You know, nature is great and animals. I’ve noticed everybody I’ve met with neurodiversity has got a special relationship with nature and particularly with animals.

Cats, in my case, in case anybody’s interested. And I adore cats, as does my best as the founder of the company you mentioned. Yeah.

Lord Justin Dunn, he’s a he’s a very keen on on cats as well. Has two beautiful cats of his own. And the the the idea of our company, Justinian Associates, is that we, because we’re both neurodiverse and because we have an extraordinary number of contacts between us, we can we can train, we can solve problems in virtually any area because we approach them from a very different brain perspective.

And what we don’t know, we can find people who do. So if if a company wants to follow Microsoft, for example, and set up an academy, you know, a genius academy, if you will. I mean, MI5 and MI6 are always advertising for neurodiverse people because they’re so good at codes and all the rest of it.

And because that’s particularly loyal and particularly good at keeping secrets. Now, if a company wants us to find people like that of any age, that’s a skill that we can do. We can provide, you know how to look, we know how to train and we know, most importantly, how those employees are to be treated to get the best from them.

OK, there’s a lot of employers have got no idea how to treat neurodiverse people that they just exploit them, pay them peanuts and burn them out quickly. And that, again, leads to the it’s another factor in the very high you know, overdose and suicide rate, which contributes to those appalling figures. I spoke of earlier, and that’s what more Justin Dunamire, you know, something we really want to tackle.

[Speaker 2] (45:10 – 45:31)
So talk to me about acceptance, because obviously, you know, when we have awareness raising campaigns in the past where it used to be World Autism Awareness Day or whatever we’re talking about, obviously, people are saying now awareness, you know, that’s great, but people want to be accepted. Talk to me about your thoughts on acceptance.

[Speaker 1] (45:32 – 47:39)
Well, I’m obviously for it. You know, I want to be accepted as, you know, as as a sensitive and and feeling and, you know, fully human being, which is not how we’re treated. You know, we’re treated at best as afterwards.

But frankly, even as far as I’m concerned, acceptance is not good enough. When you look at the list of neurodiverse people who have created the modern world, people like Nikola Tesla, you know, people like Da Vinci, people like Michelangelo, people like Mozart, people like Beethoven, people like Jim Morrison, people like Kurt Cobain, people like Sir Anthony Hopkins. You know, to give a few examples, people like Virginia Woolf, people like Emily Post and Emily Dickinson.

All neurodiverse. Sir Isaac Newton. And we know these things for a fact, by the way, from forensics and genetics and forensic archaeology.

We know they had different brains. Albert Einstein, probably the most standout example. You know, acceptance would be nice, but I tell you what, something which I think is a community we should be demanding is some.

I’ll add another A, and that’s applause, because people who are neurodiverse have made such, you know, considering we’re such a small percentage of the population, we have made such a contribution to Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, quite probably Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk has just revealed his Aspergers. Yeah. Yeah.

You don’t necessarily have to like these people, but you do have to acknowledge that they, you know, are making a significant contribution to world progress. So, yeah, acceptance is fine. Yeah, we’ve more than earned it.

But we’ve earned a acclimation and applause as well, in my view.

[Speaker 2] (47:39 – 48:39)
Most definitely. I read a recent article about Sir Anthony Hopkins and he’s spoken about his Asperger’s syndrome. Sharon, he doesn’t believe in it.

It’s saying the 83-year-old Oscar-winning actor was told he has the developmental disorder, which is a form of autism in his late 70s, but insists he doesn’t feel any different and added his frustration that people are so quick to add labels to humans and their behavior these days. He told GQ magazine as he scooped the Legend Award at this year’s Man of the Year award when he asked how his diagnosis came about. I think some doctor contacted me.

I don’t know. I don’t actually. I don’t believe in it.

I don’t feel any different. I think these are dressed up. Maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe I’m ignorant. They call it neurodiversity. It’s a fancy label.

I’m very focused in one way. I notice when I’m in restaurants, but that’s my behavior. I think I’ve ruined the human system by tabulating everything.

There’s a wonderful saying, which is that we’re all screwed. We’re all whiz have been and we always will be. The whole human race is screwed.

What do you think about that?

[Speaker 1] (48:40 – 49:04)
Well, I think he’s got a point. Frankly, he’s a very clever man. I also think that spending a couple of hours with a medical science class and I’m looking at the scans I talked about might change his mind about whether it’s real or not, because it’s really real.

[Speaker 2] (49:06 – 49:14)
OK, so you also, I believe, are a keen photographer and you like walking and charity quizzes.

[Speaker 1] (49:15 – 49:45)
Yes, I’m swimming and I’m diving. I used to I’m a fully trained diver in all the all the three main areas of diving. Train with the Royal Marines and South Sea.

Wow. And yeah, which is great. I used to go wreck diving, which I didn’t realize was quite how dangerous it really is.

I used to race diving. I’ve never heard of that when you when you explore sunken wrecks.

[Speaker 2] (49:45 – 49:46)
Oh, right.

[Speaker 1] (49:46 – 50:29)
OK, which is which is great, you know, not not from a treasure hunting perspective. Yeah, sort of an extreme sport. I did a base jump once and I don’t know why, but I did.

I race cars, go carts, motorbikes, which is one of the reasons I can’t play golf anymore, because the motorbike accidents really kind of built up over the years and of course have caused causing, you know, a lot of problems. But swimming, I’ve always loved. Yeah, you know, cricket, rugby, tennis.

And I love watching these things now, too. And I still love watching golf.

[Speaker 2] (50:29 – 50:30)
They’ve been watching the Paralympics.

[Speaker 1] (50:31 – 50:42)
No, I haven’t. I’ve been watching. I’ve been watching this issue on the on the streaming.

They’re counting championship. I’ve been ups and downs more than that.

[Speaker 2] (50:43 – 50:46)
Yeah, you still play cricket yourself.

[Speaker 1] (50:46 – 51:30)
I’m afraid not. And it’s definitely a game for the under 40s, I think. Well, certainly the end of the 50s.

I just went on a long time. My dad was a brilliant cricketer. And but for the war, he probably would have, you know, would have been a professional professional cricketer.

But I was never that good, but I was pretty good at one time. But I I gave up when I was about 38 because I I was having a lot of problems even then with my my back and my knees. And I wasn’t able to play to the I wasn’t able to play the standard of cricket that I that I felt satisfied with.

So, you know, I started kind of I did umpiring for a while and quite a lot of coaching, you know. So I’ve young cricketers.

[Speaker 2] (51:31 – 52:43)
Well, you have such an amazing lifestyle and you’ve done so many things. It’s just like you really have lived life to the full. They’re really lovely to listen to you talk about it.

And you can see that you’ve got you can hear the joy in your voice when you talk about things that you’ve done in the past. So really something to be proud of and hold your head up high. You know, I like what you said about, you know, if parents, you know, with reference to, right, I’m starting out on the journey now with my son or my daughter and, you know, just been diagnosed.

And I like what those three things that you said is fight for them, which which is what I’ve always done for my boys. Listen, perceive the world because obviously our our children perceive the world in a different way. And I like the belief act on what the child is telling you.

Their language, their behavior could be telling you that they’re traumatized, tired and pain. I really like that. It just sort of encapsulates, you know, the journey that you need to start out on with your son or your daughter.

So so what do you want to do? I know we’ve only got a little bit of time left. So what do you want to achieve now for the rest of your life?

Have you got any more goals that you?

[Speaker 1] (52:43 – 52:43)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (52:44 – 52:51)
Yeah, we’ve spoken very briefly. But is there anything else you want to share about what you would like to do or what you would like to see happen?

[Speaker 1] (52:51 – 53:02)
Well, first of all, I’d like to share a couple of tips for parents. Mm hmm. I can’t remember what you what you just you just said about it.

You just said something and it triggered something in my mind.

[Speaker 2] (53:05 – 53:31)
What was the three fight, listen, believe? Yeah, perceive the world in a different way. Act on what the child is telling you.

Their language, their behavior could tell you that they’re traumatized, tired and pain. I would say that with my own son, I can definitely see he’s got gut issues. But when your son has limited speech, it’s so difficult to figure out what is the matter.

[Speaker 1] (53:32 – 53:55)
That’s what I wanted to say. Two tips, even for children who are variable and adults, for that matter, I would always teach a child sign language. It not only does it give them a new way of communicating.

But it also gives them a chance to to to it’s a career maker, for example.

[Speaker 2] (53:56 – 54:02)
Can you hear me OK? I can. Yes, I’m sorry.

Are you talking about Makaton?

[Speaker 1] (54:03 – 54:07)
No, I’m talking about learning a sign language. OK, the SL or ASL.

[Speaker 2] (54:08 – 54:09)
All right. British Sign Language. Right.

Yeah. OK.

[Speaker 1] (54:11 – 54:32)
You know, so that they can communicate. There’ll be a whole different group of people who sign naturally. And it’s a potential career maker.

And the second one, people who are neurodiverse are often bullied. I would always counsel every parent to enroll their child in a martial arts class as early as possible if they can do that.

[Speaker 2] (54:32 – 54:57)
OK, yeah, I definitely would agree with that. I know my son, when he was a teenager, he did kickboxing and it also teaches you discipline. It’s good for flexibility.

It’s the mind. Definitely. And I know quite a few people, like, for example, one of our patrons, Joe, look, she’s three times world kickbox champion in the mainstream world.

Yeah, she’s she’s she’s an amazing woman. So, yeah, definitely would agree with that. Anything else you wanted to share?

[Speaker 1] (54:58 – 55:53)
You know, you said about ambitions. I want to get there. I want to make her for the mask.

I want I want to. Oh, obviously, I want to, you know, go around the world and speak as I’ve spoken to you. I’ve got a reputation all around for for being a very straight talker.

Some people say that I’m blunt and rude because I challenge, you know, established ideas sometimes when I think they’re wrong. And I’m not afraid to say that. Good.

I’m passionate about my poetry. You know, it’s had great reviews. I know, you know, you’re never going to be a best seller with poetry.

You know, it’s a niche market. I understand that. But yeah, I certainly want to do that.

And I’ll obviously make the business with them. We’re just in, you know, you know, doing consulting.

[Speaker 2] (55:53 – 55:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (55:55 – 56:36)
Yeah. And I’m trying to get back and do a bit of teaching. You know, I really I really dread the idea of ever having to retire.

I mean, I want to I want to do things. You know what I’m saying? I want to I want to make the world better, not only for people with neurodiversity, but, you know, in general, I mean, there are a lot of things that that one of the Swiss Anthony Hopkins is right.

You know, this world is is pretty messed up. And if I can make a contribution to to helping that in any field and making things better, then yeah, if you want that, that’s my ambition. I guess.

[Speaker 2] (56:36 – 56:48)
Oh, thank you very much. So just to remind people, if they want to buy your book, it’s Asperger’s Autism at You. It’s available on Amazon.

Remind me of the name of your company and where people can find it.

[Speaker 1] (56:49 – 57:55)
Yeah, I first I F E R S in capitals dot org. And it’s in Beverly Hills, California. It’s a very famous charity foundation.

It’s been going since 2006. And Professor Newton Lee is a pioneer computer scientist. He’s the founder and and a pioneer in the field of transhumanism as well, as well as having a great interest in neurodiversity and a considerable knowledge of it, which is why he decided to publish the book.

I had a choice of about five publishers and I I chose a small one because because Newton understands it so well. And the books come out exactly the way I want it. I mean, we we invented a new font, you know, a new typeface for it to make it easier for people to read.

And so also the color of the paper and the color of the ink as it’s perceived. It was also carefully designed and it’s slightly bigger. It’s not normal, small paperback print.

[Speaker 2] (57:56 – 58:00)
OK, so it sounds like you’ve thought of absolutely everything there.

[Speaker 1] (58:00 – 58:28)
So again, we we we know from the time he got a copy of the books and the time it was published was probably at least six months while we were, you know, finessing exactly what exactly the product we wanted to, you know, to present to the, you know, to the buying public. OK, and what we need is promotion because as a 501c charity, I first are not allowed to promote it. Oh, this is a problem.

[Speaker 2] (58:29 – 59:22)
OK, so again, by the way, but if people would like to find out a little bit more about Professor Ian Hale, the information will be on the charity website. Just to remind you, www.annakennedyonline.com. It will be on our latest news page.

So please support Ian. And there’ll be lots of other links on there and how to buy the book and everything else that Professor Ian is doing. So I just I just want to say it’s been a real joy talking to you.

And thank you for sharing your story with me. And I wish you the best of luck with your books and also with your organization that you’ve just set up. And yeah, it’s just been you’ve just done so much in your life.

It’s just I found it quite exciting, really.

[Speaker 1] (59:23 – 59:32)
Thank you. It’s been a wonderful experience and a privilege to talk to you and a privilege to talk to your audience. And, you know, I greatly enjoyed it.

[Speaker 2] (59:32 – 59:53)
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you, everyone, again, for supporting my show.

And please take care of yourself one day at a time. We will get there. I know it’s getting a little bit better, but, you know, we just have to keep fighting for our children, our adults, because if we don’t do it, no one else is going to do it for us.

So thank you, everyone. Take care. And all the best.

Bye, Ian.

[Speaker 1] (59:54 – 59:55)
Cheers. Thank you.