All Things Autism – Giuliana Wheater 040722

All Things Autistm - Giuliana Wheater 040722.mp3 ========================================= Speaker 1 00:01 - 00:12 Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism. And we've got a very busy show for you today. So I just want to just give you a few little bits and bobs that have been going on. Speaker 1 00:12 - 00:28 And yeah, congratulations to Women's Radio. They actually received an award, a Corporate Livewire Innovation and Excellence Award. They are the winners for the mental health and well-being. Woohoo to us and all the presenters. Speaker 1 00:28 - 00:36 So excited. I've been there. Right from the beginning. So I remember the very first day I came to a women's radio station. Speaker 1 00:37 - 00:48 It was just so amazing. And yeah, I met with lots of different ladies. And yeah, some of us are still going strong on women's radio. And I've had some fantastic guests. Speaker 1 00:48 - 01:01 and all power to our elbow. So that's amazing. And also today, I've received another amazing news. The lovely Juliana, I'm going to be introducing to you very soon, nominated me for the National Diversity Awards. Speaker 1 01:01 - 01:06 And that's for the lifetime achiever. And I've been shortlisted. Woo-hoo! So there's that. Speaker 1 01:07 - 01:26 Yay! I'm officially gold. Lifetime Achiever makes you feel old for some reason but hey I'm so excited so it also gives us an opportunity to raise further awareness and acceptance of autism and it's also going to be live streamed on ITV News. How exciting is that? Speaker 1 01:27 - 01:44 So thank you very much. So before I introduce you I just wanted to say a little bit about a couple of books that have been sent to me that I just wanted to share with you. So it's a parent's guide to autism diagnosis. So what to expect and how to support your child. Speaker 1 01:44 - 02:06 And it's been written by Dr. Sophia Moonsey and Adele Devine, who also follows me on social media. So Dr. Sophia is a highly experienced consultant paediatrician who has worked for the NHS and in the private sector for over 30 years. She's also a medical advisor on several committees. She has four children and enjoys cooking, tennis, travel and long walks. Speaker 1 02:06 - 02:26 Adele Devine is one of our shortlisted people for the Charity Autism Year Awards. She's a highly experienced special needs teacher at a school for young people with severe learning difficulties and autism. In 2010, she co-founded the multi-award winning SEM assist autism software. She has three children and enjoys swimming and writing. Speaker 1 02:27 - 02:39 So if you're interested and have a look at that book, please check out. Adele Devine and Dr Sophia Moosey. You can get it on Amazon. So it's a parent's guide to autism diagnosis. Speaker 1 02:39 - 03:02 And another is the parent's guide to managing, get my teeth in, managing anxiety in children with autism. And that's been written by Raylene, I hope I've pronounced that correctly, Dundoo. Basically, this is a complete introduction to autism and anxiety in children, full of clear, concise advice and practical strategies. This book is a treasure trove of information for parents. Speaker 1 03:03 - 03:33 It covers the basics, such as what anxiety is, how it manifests behaviourally and why it is common, what anxiety is. Yeah, so lots of information in that book. So if you're interested, you can actually buy it on www.karamchale.co.uk and it's also on Jessica Kingsley Publishers website. So that's exciting. Speaker 1 03:33 - 04:18 And just to remind you about Autism Anglia, the My Autism Passport, All About Me, which Anna Kennedy Online actually fundraised for. I actually received an email last week about this passport saying how useful it was. So you can actually get it on their charity website, which is www.autismanglia.org.uk and it's a passport that's been produced with help and advice so you know when you go to these meetings and you have to keep repeating yourself over and over you go to the hospital for an appointment and you need to repeat yourself you have one of these passports completed and you can just show it to them and it saves you going through the whole thing because it's all there it's all about me your name your national insurance number your address, your date of Speaker 1 04:18 - 04:31 birth, your emergency contact name and telephone number. How can you help me? So, for example, be specific and concrete in what you say and give me time to respond to questions in the tick box list there. So what applies to you? Speaker 1 04:31 - 04:38 Things that affect my ability to communicate. So it could be tapping on a keyboard. It could be too much information. Again, a tick box. Speaker 1 04:38 - 04:47 What applies to you? Characteristics of my autism. I have difficulty seeing another person's perspective. and likely to interpret from my own point of view. Speaker 1 04:48 - 05:01 Again, another tick box exercise. And then stress reducing methods that may help and support me. Again, another tick box that applies to you. So it could be something like give me clear cues and prompts what you want me to do. Speaker 1 05:01 - 05:10 So very, very useful. And then some notes at the back in case you want to add anything else. So you can get that. You can download it for free from their charity website. Speaker 1 05:10 - 05:29 or if you want to buy it, it's something I think like £1.50, so hardly anything at all, but very, very useful too. So now I'm going to introduce my lovely Juliana. She is our Wellbeing Charity Ambassador. She's also a registered teacher with the Complementary Medical Association. Speaker 1 05:29 - 06:01 Juliana works within pastoral and special educational needs sectors at schools, colleges, specialist academy, treating, young people with special needs including dyslexia, dyspraxia, learning difficulties, behavioural issues, ADHD, Tourette's, OCD, psychosis, the list goes on. She's highly qualified and she's such a lovely person too and a great friend to the charity. So welcome Juliana. Oh thank you Anna, it's absolutely lovely to be invited on. Speaker 1 06:02 - 06:06 So how are you today, how are you doing? Yes, I'm all right, mega busy. Speaker 2 06:06 - 06:22 You know what us autism mums are like. It's go, go, go, isn't it? You know, not a lot of sleep goes on, as we both know. But, you know, even on the most tired of days, I just think I have got the best job in the world. Speaker 2 06:22 - 06:43 And that keeps me going. It really, really does. To think if even in one day I could make a difference to one family, one person even, you know one school but that's that's a day well lived and so it doesn't matter how bleary-eyed I am when that alarm goes off after an hour's sleep or an hour and a half sleep I just think yes let's get going. Speaker 1 06:43 - 07:01 I've been blessed with high energy like you Anna, I think we're quite lucky in that way thank god. I know we like to be busy so before we go into special educational needs before we talk about autism People probably might not have heard your past interview. I think it was last year sometime. I can't even remember. Speaker 1 07:01 - 07:05 All the days roll into one. So who is Juliana? Who are you, Juliana? Speaker 2 07:05 - 07:20 Oh my God, I ask myself that question every day because more and more bits keep getting added on. Well, I'm a mum to four neurodiverse children. Two of them are on the autism spectrum. One has dyslexia, one has dyspraxia. Speaker 2 07:21 - 07:59 My journey, this work was birthed through my son Oliver. who is autistic, and my journey and my absolute battle, and all the listeners will identify with this, I mean, parents of neurotypical children, honestly, I just, I don't think they'd actually be able to take it all in if we told them just how hard we have to fight for basic, basic things for our children, and the lack of expectations surrounding them, the lack of support, even now, So my journey with Ollie was just so heartbreaking. He actually became suicidal. Speaker 2 08:00 - 08:24 He picked up symptoms of psychosis. And he's always said to me to this day, he was written off at school as well, even though he was gifted and talented, but he's now doing a PhD. And he said to me, you know, he's never seen autism as a disability. It was the ignorance of other people and the mental illnesses he picked up that were the disability. Speaker 2 08:25 - 08:49 And that really fired me onto my journey because I realized that what was happening to him was happening to children, not even just all over the UK, but actually all over the world. And I needed to get to these kids one way or another. So that then led on to me doing absolutely tons and tons and tons of, you know, free advocating, free public speaking, motivational speaking. I wrote a book in secret. Speaker 2 08:50 - 09:01 I was dragged out of a car. a speeding car by my coat collar for writing that when I was found out, but I still continued writing it, even if I was scrawling bits at traffic lights and things. Honestly, I'm not joking. It was like that. Speaker 2 09:01 - 09:12 That's what I was doing. Got the book finished. That was also published by Jessica Kingsley Publishing, who you mentioned earlier. And then on the back of that, I got trainings. Speaker 2 09:12 - 09:36 I train up teachers because I'm very aware that people always have a pop at teachers. but they're under terrific pressure themselves. So I wanted to come very much from the angle that I wanted to work with schools, not against them, and to help educate them where the government have failed to. And I'm sorry to say this, but they are failing our children. Speaker 2 09:36 - 10:04 You know, I said on an interview recently, they still call, you know, pathological demand avoidance, ADHD, things like that. they still call them conduct disorders, which I think is horrific because it's, it's, yeah. And it's actually, and I even checked that today and it's still there on recent pie charts and statistics from the government. Well, I mean, we're just, we're just programmed differently. Speaker 2 10:04 - 10:20 It's a neuro divergence. It's not willful. You know, somebody with pathological demand avoidance is not being willful. You know, you wouldn't rush up to a blind person and, tell them to get into IE or exclude them because they refused to read a book in braille. Speaker 2 10:21 - 10:50 You just wouldn't. You know, if you didn't provide wheelchair ramps in schools for kids with physical disabilities, there'd rightly be an uproar. So it should be exactly the same for autistic children. And you know, a child in a rest and relaxed state only needs to be given a message four to six times for it to make an actual neurological pathway in the brain. Speaker 2 10:51 - 11:26 And if they're not relaxed, and a lot of our kids aren't relaxed, they're often somewhere on that fight or flight spectrum, one to 10, because they're trying to survive school, let alone thrive. Sorry to be a bit bleak, but it is like that in mainstream. And a child, when they're in that stress state, it still only takes 20 times for the same message to be repeated. So because at government level, our teachers are being taught these children have deficits, disorders, conduct disorders, that's then fed into classrooms. Speaker 2 11:26 - 11:44 So it's all the unofficial labeling. So I fight really, really, really hard to try and take away the stigma and that double-edged sword of getting that diagnosis, getting that label. I've got to the point now that, you know, That's right. It was on BBC Radio this morning. Speaker 2 11:44 - 12:10 I said to them, you know, I'm just so saddened that all I ever seem to do is pick up the pieces of broken children and try and put them together. And it's much easier to build a child than to repair a broken adult. So to me, I think like you, Anna, we've got to get in at the top, you know, and we've got to stop our kids getting broken in the first place because they're so clever. A lot of them are so clever. Speaker 2 12:11 - 12:22 They've got something. you know, that they could bring to the table. If they're good at something, nurture that, grow that. You know, not everything is within the four walls of a classroom. Speaker 2 12:22 - 12:43 And we've got brilliant, if you look at our world, and you know, you look at the world of maths, art, writing, science, IT, gaming, look how many of those world changes have been on the autism spectrum. You know, I'm not saying that, you know, everyone with autism is like Rain Man. I wouldn't be so insulting. I've got four neurodiverse children. Speaker 2 12:43 - 12:55 But, you know, there is always something that lights someone up. And, you know, you should be nurtured. You should be grown to that full potential. We shouldn't be having to go to tribunals to fight for funding. Speaker 2 12:56 - 12:58 So now my job... Speaker 1 12:58 - 13:25 It's adverse now, isn't it, because of everything? Yeah. on, you know, since COVID and all of this lack of funding, it's just like, I'm speaking to at the Autism Hero Awards, which we'll touch upon, one of the people that were the sponsors. And basically, their organisation, they have lots of parents, which is a free service, that need help in finding whether it's a nursery, whether it's a school, whether it's a college, whether they're going through a transition, or whether it's adult services. Speaker 1 13:25 - 13:38 And they're saying they have never been so inundated from parents asking for help to try and find a placement for their child. at the free service. However, the local authorities are not playing ball. They're not listening. Speaker 1 13:38 - 13:48 They don't want to part with it. No, they're not. They don't. They think that this particular organisation, we've been in doing this for like 20 years now and we've never ever seen it like this. Speaker 1 13:48 - 13:52 Like we've never seen it that they're just not listening. They're just not paying attention. Speaker 2 13:52 - 14:18 They're not listening. And on the receiving end of that, that's why that directly relates back to what I said about how more and more and more I'm trying to pick up the pieces of these broken children and young adults because they are, I mean, pre-COVID, you know, anybody with a different ability, you're born with naturally higher levels of cortisol, the stress hormone. You're two times more likely to pick up a mental health illness. Speaker 2 14:19 - 15:09 And I'm now working alongside young adults who have been going through exams where the parents, because they couldn't afford 400 pounds plus for a private diagnosis from an occupational therapist, they couldn't go private. They actually haven't even been able to get their child on a list. So this year, through all the GCSEs, I can't tell you how many kids I've been working with who have gone through the whole system completely undiagnosed and unsupported, and not even to be able to have a separate room. And when teachers get those EHCPs or a diagnosis, which, as you know, can take three to five years now, which is shocking, A lot of teachers who I train say to me, because of all the pressures on them, they actually don't have time to sit down and read Speaker 2 15:10 - 15:31 all of the EHCPs, let alone memorize them. So what's it like if a supply teacher goes in? And because of COVID, so many teachers have been off and the funding has got used up. So unofficially, what a lot of people don't realize is that teaching assistants have been running classes And without being rude, they're not qualified to. Speaker 2 15:31 - 15:33 And that's going on all the time. Speaker 1 15:33 - 15:38 The one-to-one support that's supposed to be allocated to the particular child. Speaker 2 15:38 - 16:08 Yeah, they're now teaching the whole class. But just on a positive note, just to try and bring some help, and I do bring this up in interviews, what I did with my Ollie, which I found really, really helpful, was I found out who every single teacher, learning assistant, teaching assistant that would have anything to do with him in that next academic year, I would go in on the August or September inset day, teacher training day, and I would hand out a postcard of Ollie's face. And on the back, it was divided into two. Speaker 2 16:09 - 16:57 And on the left-hand side, it said about his autistic traits, because we're all unique human beings behind whatever traits we have, whatever label we have. But then on the other side, I wrote positive, inclusive things that they could do to play on his strengths, so that instead of him having those feelings of exclusion, you know, he was present in those lessons, he could be involved. And the things I suggested, so for instance, one of the things would always be, you know, you have trouble breaking down multiple instructions, he'd get lost after the second instruction. So I'd say to the teachers, please could you break down into bullet points what the task is, you know, the multiple parts of the task is on a whiteboard, because that will help dyslexic children who can have short-term memory challenges. Speaker 2 16:58 - 17:16 It will help kids whose parents might be going through divorce, kids who have insomnia, anxiety, kids who are going through abuse and haven't slept all night. So it wasn't, oh, this is for you, by the way, autistic Ollie in the corner, because he would have hated that. So it was all done. He never knew I went in. Speaker 2 17:16 - 17:38 He never knew that for years. I only told him afterwards. But because I knew with this postcard, if there was a supply teacher or whatever, they would immediately see that because I asked them to keep it in every register for every subject. They could have a quick glance, they'd recognize him because obviously a supply teacher wouldn't know everybody's name, but it was immediately there. Speaker 2 17:38 - 18:00 And it was a really powerful tool and it really, really helped. So, you know, I don't just want to moan on interviews. I mean, we have to face facts and it is bleak, but I also want to bring positive help and strategies to parents of things that they can do. I also made sure Ollie could sit his exams in a separate room. Speaker 2 18:00 - 18:20 They wouldn't give him any extra time, even though he was autistic. The doctor gave him seven minutes extra time after I'd been in three times and the third time I'd taken the Senko. He wrote Ollie begrudgingly a letter giving him seven minutes extra time. And I said, well, that's when the clock stops, isn't it? Speaker 2 18:20 - 18:45 And I remember the examination officer looked at me and I said, well, he needs movement breaks. If he gets overwhelmed, what's going to happen then? You know, if he has movement breaks and he does his exams from home and it's legal, it's legal that a child can do their exams from wherever they want, so long as there's an invigilator and an examiner present, but they don't tell you this. And if you go in, they'll tell you they can't do it. Speaker 2 18:45 - 19:04 Well, they can, and they have to do by law. So Ollie did his exams in my therapy chalet. It took him four hours to do his maths exam instead of two because of the movement breaks and the extra seven minutes. And he did have to re-sit the maths, but he got 10 GCSEs straight out. Speaker 2 19:05 - 19:21 And the way I argued it with the school was I said, well, you've legally spent his funding elsewhere because they do. It just goes into a melting pot. And that's still true to this day. So any parents out there, hold the schools accountable for that funding that you fight so hard to get. Speaker 2 19:22 - 19:40 Please hold the schools accountable as to where that's going. And I said to the school, because I didn't know at that point, so they'd spent Ollie's, I said to the school, the least you can do is let him sit his exams in my therapy chalet. I'm nowhere near. It's a place where he feels calm. Speaker 2 19:40 - 19:59 He can go around the garden on movement breaks accompanied. And you can do this for him. And if you do this for him, it's win-win for you because he will pick up all those nice shiny grades that you need for your league tables. And he will come out with, you know, with exams. Speaker 2 20:00 - 20:14 So they did it. They did it. So the boy who they said would never get more than two GCSEs actually went on to get all 11. So these are just helpful little tips that might come in handy for parents out there. Speaker 1 20:16 - 20:22 OK, so can we talk a little bit about the Hero Award? So we can sort of touch them. Speaker 2 20:22 - 20:28 Obviously, is that your little dog? I'm sorry. I'm just going to go and grab her. She has to be involved. Speaker 2 20:28 - 20:32 You're supposed to be a therapy dog, Boo. You're not meant to be shouting at people through the window. Speaker 1 20:32 - 20:37 Sorry. I've got her with me. It's OK. Sorry. Speaker 1 20:37 - 20:48 With reference to the Hero Awards, it was just so lovely to be in a room full of people that are fighting the corner for children and adults who are on the spectrum. That's how I felt on the night. Speaker 2 20:49 - 21:27 Well, it blew me away, Anna, and I've been to, I think I said it on, I did a little video for the charity website afterwards, and I said, you know, I've been lucky enough to attend events, but this is there is a difference between a charity event and an event. And what I found with yours, and I'm not just saying this as, you know, I'm really, I really, you know me, I can't say how it is, I'm so unfiltered. But what I really felt there, it wasn't celebrating an autistic community. Speaker 2 21:27 - 22:09 It was actually celebrating people who have made the world sit up and see and hear and include. So it didn't feel like a segregated little party of something that's neurodiverse. It was very, very much, yeah, you know, the world needs to learn about, you know, neurodivergence, but also is very much about integrating our gifts and understanding challenges. And actually, putting things in place that are inclusive, even in the workplace, you know, things like low lighting, that benefits everybody. Speaker 2 22:09 - 22:35 So the whole message behind it was not just being in a room full of heroes who quietly and silently, and often for no money at all, no financial reward, it's all from the heart, all in one room, all fighting for the same thing. And it does feel like change is slow. But I don't know about you, Anna, I feel there is a change happening. people are beginning to listen and it's because of things like this. Speaker 1 22:37 - 22:49 Thank you, so but you and obviously we have 12 categories and then we have two categories where I get to choose. I'm so glad I don't have to choose the other 12 categories. Oh my God, that must be a nightmare. I would hate to be a judge. Speaker 1 22:49 - 22:56 They always ask for extra time. Yeah, I'm not surprised. And a box of tissues in them. Yeah. Speaker 1 22:57 - 23:14 So I get to choose too. So I get to choose the person that I feel that's achieved a lot within their life through adversity. So that's why I chose Brian because he lost his mom, he changed jobs, he moved house. He's just so lovely and he's got this group that he's created. Speaker 1 23:14 - 23:41 It's been going for a long time and he's got a huge following and he's just such a lovely person. He was just overwhelmed that he was chosen. And obviously I choose someone within my charity of volunteers. and I thought of you because of everything that you do and you know we brought you on board because when Covid was going around that dreadful thing that seems to be on the increase again and that you know that people were struggling with their mental health with their Speaker 1 23:41 - 24:06 well-being because you know things were changing all the time even like my son Angelo going to the park you know he couldn't sit on the bench that he'd only sat on I know just so stressful and you just helped know as many people as you possibly could, we did a workshop, we were trying to do whatever we could during those two difficult years and I just wanted to run to the challenge and I couldn't think of anyone else to be our well-being ambassador. Speaker 2 24:07 - 24:46 It was just such an honour, it really really was and I didn't see it coming either. That's the mad thing, when I started on this journey you know Like I say, it was about my son and then it became about all these other children and their families and then teachers and then going up and up and up in terms of wanting to get that message up there before the kids get damaged, you know, and excluded and just not feeling part of our world. And it's a shocking statistic that, you know, right now as we're chatting, only 16% of autistic adults are in paid employment. Speaker 2 24:46 - 25:13 And when you think of how intelligent they are, the hyper focus they have, the honesty they have, you know, that ability to see something through to the end, that stamina, tenacity, industriousness, because, you know, that's what we've had to fight through. You know, it's never been A to B. So, you know, these are all things to be really, really proud of, I think. But what I really, really loved about that night, Anna, your charity and It's the best event I've ever been to. Speaker 2 25:14 - 25:35 And not because I was amazingly given an award. It was because, you know what really touched me? Was that every single runner-up in the category, you got up on that stage and they were celebrated too. And I've never seen that at any function. Speaker 1 25:35 - 25:54 I've never seen that. I've always done that because I thought, well, they've come all this way, you know, and some of them, you know, they haven't got a lot of money and they're trying, you know, to get friends to help them. And I just thought, you know, why shouldn't they be celebrating as well? So they all come up on stage as well, you know, because I know a lot of these events you go to and only the winners go on the stage. Speaker 1 25:55 - 25:59 Yes. No, no, no. I want everyone to come up on stage. Speaker 2 25:59 - 26:27 And that was the lovely thing. It was gorgeous, and I've never seen that anywhere. And I think that's really, really important, because actually, as much as I was, you know, and am, I mean, this is just, I said, you know, when I accepted the award, and I said it on my video, and I'm saying it again now, this is second only to the births of my children receiving that award. Speaker 2 26:27 - 26:38 And I honestly don't think anything could ever beat it. because it is a charity with a massive heart and huge integrity. Every penny goes to those kids. We believe in them. Speaker 2 26:39 - 26:55 You know, this First Steps challenge, you know, the First Steps thing that you set up, Anna, where... Yeah, the project. Yeah. That, I mean, you know, to actually physically put your money where your mouth is and invest in these young adults, that has really touched me. Speaker 2 26:55 - 27:21 And I've already decided that next year, that's going to be my fundraiser is going to be for that. You know, and it's just with you, it's about everybody. And when you first said to me that I had this award, I did get a massive attack of imposter syndrome because, you know, I just look at all the people. I mean, Lisa, who works tirelessly, Dawn Avery, Joe, all these people in the charity who just give and give and give. Speaker 2 27:22 - 27:41 But I thought, you know, that's why it was so lovely that everybody was on stage, that nobody felt they were special because they, I mean, obviously we felt special because we'd got awards. It was mind-blowing, but you know, what was so lovely is that we weren't made to feel, it was like we were all alongside each other. Speaker 1 27:41 - 27:51 You know, and I felt really comfortable with that, which is why I could accept it. We've got lots to get through. So we've got half an hour here. So, oh gosh. Speaker 1 27:52 - 28:01 Yeah. So just before we go into some of the questions that you'd like me to ask you is obviously neurodivergence is the new, what would you call it, a buzzword? Speaker 2 28:02 - 28:06 It changes all the time. I find it so difficult to keep up sometimes. Speaker 1 28:06 - 28:22 If you were to explain that to somebody, because you say you have four neurodivergent children, what do you think the benefits are of saying neurodivergency or divergent or however you want to say it? How would you explain it to someone who's never heard of it before? Speaker 2 28:22 - 28:55 I would just explain that it's a different wiring of the brain and this can actually be photographed now, you know, they've done this through MRI imaging, scanning, neuroscanning, they've really proven this So it's nothing to do with behavior or conduct. You know, it is simply a different wiring of the brain. And obviously the autism spectrum is huge. And there are some people on that spectrum who, you know, they're not going to be able to go into paid employment. Speaker 2 28:55 - 29:25 And sorry, I just grabbed Boo. And I understand that. But having said that, we all, and I know this because I go and work with deaf and blind kids who are autistic are going to PMLD units where they are also autistic. But what I find is that once you get through the challenges and the issues, there will always be something that lights them up and brings them from living to, sorry, from existing to living. Speaker 2 29:25 - 30:01 But those who are on the other end of the spectrum, that, you know, there are gifts, huge gifts there. You know, like I said before, because it's never A to B, there's that stamina, that persistence, tenacity, thinking outside the box, hyper-focus, resilience, you know, being able to pick up on the tiniest of details, having photographic memories. You know, some people have really photographic memories. But, you know, there's so many, many, you know, that ability to research, research, research, passions. Speaker 2 30:01 - 30:16 You know, that's another thing. I think I've said it to you before, Anna, you know, why is it that when someone who's neurotypical is really into something, oh, it's a hobby, it's a passion. But if someone who's autistic, is it really into something? Oh, it's a fixation. Speaker 2 30:17 - 30:24 It's an obsession. Even our language around that is negative. You know, this is their song. This is what they're here for. Speaker 2 30:24 - 30:41 This is what they're good at. So grow that. You know, it's not rocket science, you know. And in spite of all these amazing strengths that autistic neurodivergent people have, behind all that, we also have unique characters. Speaker 2 30:42 - 30:53 You wouldn't put 10 people with the flu in a room and go, right, you lot, you're all the same. And we've got no expectations of you, by the way. You just wouldn't do that, would you? And it's exactly the same with autistic people. Speaker 2 30:54 - 31:10 We've got our individual characters, our individual strengths give. You know, there's neurotypical people who might not like loud noises or strict lighting. So, you know, I hate it. I actually hate it. Speaker 2 31:10 - 31:55 Do you know, in Cornwall, where my sons live, on the night buses, they change the lights to like a soft pink light. So it's not just good for autistic people traveling or, you know, people who have sensory overload. It's also massively calmed down, you know, when the pub's empty at night, that time of night, because it's more chilled lighting, it calms everybody down. So there's lots of things we can do that benefit everybody, whether it's the workplace, public transport, you know, there's lots and lots of things we can do to ease those challenges so that the gifts can bloom inside each person, whatever their difference, whatever their label. Speaker 1 31:56 - 32:24 So we touched base very briefly on mental health challenges. So obviously, because of everything that's going on again in this ever changing world that's going on, it's just constantly changing all the time. So how can we stay on top of helping our own mental health and also our autistic children and adults? So what can we do to help with mental health, well-being, help us to tick along each day and not get too overwhelmed? Speaker 2 32:25 - 32:45 What I always do is, you know, because obviously, you know, my, Charles, who just lost you, as you know, has just finished his exams. And he really, really did get very distressed during them. And also a little bit in his last year at school. And what I used to say to him was, look at your hand. Speaker 2 32:47 - 33:05 And outside of your hand are the things you can't control, COVID. you know, having to miss lessons, exams, having to do those exams regardless, you know, all those outside pressures. We can't change that. It is what it is at the moment, but inside your hand is what you do have control of. Speaker 2 33:06 - 33:28 And, you know, obviously waiting lists to see therapists are huge and often people can't afford them, which is why I do my weekly thing for you. You know, Anna, the weekly wellbeing articles on Anna Kennedy online every single Monday. and also my own YouTube channel. I've got a daily Facebook group where I post daily tips and therapies. Speaker 2 33:29 - 34:16 And things like mindfulness, meditation, even things like breathing, the way you breathe, you know, different breathing exercises that you can do to either help you fill with energy when you're lacking that motivation and you're really, really low, or when you're in that state of high arousal where it's pure anxiety, pure stress, you can't sleep, and you can use your breath in a much softer way to bring that energy down. You know, we are in control of the main neurotransmitters in our body. And unfortunately, if we're under long-term stress, which a lot of us have been, neurotypical have been, but it's been so difficult, as you say, you know, for autistic people, because change isn't always easy. Speaker 2 34:16 - 34:49 You know, I don't mean to generalize, but it's really not. So, you know, it's bringing them, it's giving them tools that they can use day-to-day for themselves as well. That's what I really like to do, is share tools that they can self-administer. So for instance, if they don't like touch, if I put them in control of it by getting them to mirror me, or they see my videos or an article I've done for you, they can then mirror it, and all of this is free. Speaker 2 34:49 - 35:27 You know, you can do yoga, you can do art therapy, play therapy, you know, obviously it's all age range dependent, or learning, some people have, you know, global developmental delays, so their learning for their age is much younger. So it's about adapting it all, making it playful, meeting the person where they are, and I just share so much, and it's all massively grounded in neuroscience, massively grounded in positive mindset therapy. So going back to those neurotransmitters, that's in our hands. So we can literally take our mental health in our hands. Speaker 2 35:28 - 35:44 And when we're under long-term stress, as I was saying, you know, I've kind of looped back a bit. It's like a stream of consciousness with me. It's a bit of ADHD, I think. But our minds actually produce this awful, awful stress hormone called myelin. Speaker 2 35:45 - 36:09 And that actually makes the brain way more susceptible to mental health, disease, and illness. And the happy hormones and coping chemicals can't get through. And that's when we start to feel very, very low, low self-esteem, disrupted sleep, continual anxiety, social anxiety. We don't want to go out. Speaker 2 36:09 - 36:29 relationship issues, it really leads to all of these things. So what we want to keep in our hands, what we want to keep going is what I call the daily dose. So that's oxytocin, the neurotransmitter of love and nurture, helps us feel safe and grounded. And it also stimulates emotional intelligence. Speaker 2 36:29 - 36:48 So things like compassion, empathy, putting yourself in someone else's shoes, good judgment, seeing consequences, you know, focus, perspective, all those things. And then you've got oxytocin. Sorry, I've said that. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter of that feeling of reward. Speaker 2 36:48 - 36:58 You know, you're on top of the world. You can face anything. It's drive, motivation, attention, focus, concentration. Then you've got the S, serotonin. Speaker 2 36:58 - 37:21 And that, at the moment, is the big one for me because that is all about self-esteem, confidence, and happiness. And for a lot of people, that's very, that's a battering. So serotonin is huge. And then E is for endorphins, which is, um, that feel good factor, like eating a ton of chocolate, being in love, you know, it's also pain relief. Speaker 2 37:21 - 37:49 So for, you know, when I do work with kids who have cerebral palsy and autism, things like this, you know, the endorphins that are released through yoga, whether that's yoga they can do by themselves or assisted yoga. I've also written about that for you, Anna, on your website. You could do it assisted, you could do it for yourself, you could put it into games. So if you've got a child with pathological demand avoidance, you can't just say, right, we're going to do yoga. Speaker 2 37:49 - 37:57 You can't. So I'll often think, right, what's their passion? And it might be trampolining. It might be, I don't know, bikes. Speaker 2 37:57 - 38:10 It could be anything. So I'll make a game around it and say, let's do this thing. And then I'll weave in the therapies. So that what they think it is, is an invitation when in fact they're doing therapies without realizing it. Speaker 2 38:10 - 38:31 And it was really funny because I remember one girl last year, I'd been seeing her for about nine months and it was actually the whole of her sentence was brilliant. She said to me, do you know what, Juliana, when you grow up, I think you'd make a really good therapist. And it made my day because I thought she actually doesn't know I'm a therapist. That is fantastic. Speaker 2 38:31 - 39:01 You know, So that's why I just share as much as possible. And if people log onto your website, they can get hold of my YouTube through there. And there's always the diagrams as well to explain to people how to get through it. And please read it, please access it because it is so inclusive, regardless of mobility, ability, disability, you know, that there's something for everybody there, you know, and things that you can use yourselves for free. Speaker 2 39:02 - 39:22 to keep your daily dose up. Because if we keep those neurotransmitters flowing, we're being proactive rather than reactive. We're one step ahead. And like I said before, there are things that are out of our control, rail strikes, bus strikes, all the rest of it, COVID. Speaker 2 39:22 - 39:52 But there are things that we can have in our control. And they're free you know, once they've logged onto your website and read it and they've got it and they can freely download any of the diagrams that I send to you and it's all there. You know, I've met people who've said they've made therapy boxes which they keep in their homes or their schools because of it, you know, what I share with you. So it's just about reaching as many people as possible, you know, and it is, there's no financial gain in it for you or me. Speaker 2 39:52 - 40:03 It's just, it's just helping our kids and ourselves get through. I do talk a lot. I'm so sorry you asked me a question and 20 minutes later I finished. Speaker 1 40:03 - 40:26 Just to remind everyone, if you haven't checked it out, it's usually on the latest news page of the charity website, which is www.annakennedyonline.com. And Juliana writes for us almost every week now. It's either uploaded on a Monday or a Tuesday by our lovely Marla Thapar, who is fantastic at keeping our website up to date. She's a wonderful lady. Speaker 1 40:26 - 40:55 So if you you've trained a special yoga for autism and ADHD so tell us about yoga and some of the benefits and perhaps a few tips we can do at home. Now the only thing I would say about yoga is I've tried it myself and it's too slow for me. Yeah yeah I know I know what you mean. Well my sister absolutely loves it but I've tried it so many times I just I think it's I've said this before I think I possibly might have ADHD because my brain and I just don't know how to switch off. Speaker 2 40:55 - 41:37 Well, it's interesting you say that, because that's just given me an idea for the first one I'm going to share with you, because obviously, you know, being trained up in yoga for autism and ADHD, because I'm aware that that movement is really important. A really good thing to do is, and I can describe it quite easily, is if you lie down on the floor and hug your knees to your chest, and then just rock from side to side. That's a fantastic one because you're moving, but what you're doing is you're massaging your gut. 90% of our serotonin, the hormone of happiness, confidence, self-esteem is in our gut. Speaker 2 41:37 - 41:56 We've also got dopamine. So we've got so much serotonin and dopamine in our gut that our gut used to be our first brain and could actually run as a completely independent nervous system all on its own. That's how much we've got in our guts. So when we're doing this, that movement, which I always call it the rock and roll. Speaker 2 41:57 - 42:25 So I'll say to somebody, there's one girl I go and see and she's mad on Westlife. So there I am in a ball on the floor next to her doing rock and roll to Westlife, you know, and it's, it's just great fun. It's working side to side. So, and you're really, really, if you want a back massage, and you don't have the money for it, or you can't get to somebody, it is like having the most wonderful back massage at the same time. Speaker 2 42:25 - 42:57 And it pushes all those neurotransmitters, that daily dose, that's all pushed up. If you imagine your first brain is connected to your second brain by a telephone wire, like a loop that goes all the way from your first brain down to the gut, which is officially your second or enteric brain in neuroscience, that's the nerve that loops it up. So it's like a telephone wire. It's the biggest nerve of the central nervous system, peripheral nervous system, sorry. Speaker 2 42:57 - 43:23 So it connects it all up and it pushes those chemicals up from the gut and floods the brain. And that's why it's so good. So when I do this with people with ADHD, what happens is it's like a movement break, but because it's also releasing the love and the nurture, and it's bringing that energy down, it's also calming them. So they're getting that movement, but they're getting the rest. Speaker 2 43:23 - 43:28 They're getting the calm. And another really, really good one to do is somebody- Oh, sorry. Speaker 1 43:29 - 43:29 How long do you do that? Speaker 2 43:29 - 43:39 I do it for as long as they want to. There's no time limit. So sometimes it might be for half a Westlife song and then we'll move on to something else. But sometimes it might be for two whole Westlife songs. Speaker 2 43:41 - 44:00 But I always involve the kids. I say, right, what do you want to do your yoga to today? You know, because for a lot of people, sound, I do a lot of sound therapy, and sound, or more specifically the vibration of sound, that releases, you know, oxytocin, serotonin, dopamine in the body. It's so incredible. Speaker 2 44:00 - 44:40 So it doesn't even need to be about touch. But if you've got somebody who's in what we call that state of high arousal, meaning, you know, I don't know, they've kicked off, they're hitting meltdown, they're hitting that overwhelm, or even if they're getting super, super excited, because I know when I get really, really excited, I'm like a child, I do this really mad speedy clapping thing and go, hey, and I just can't stop. So what you can do if you're feeling really excitable and you know that it might not be necessarily very appropriate, and I have to use this a lot on myself, I'm being honest, is it's like giving yourself a hug, but you do it so your arms are crossed Speaker 2 44:40 - 45:05 over your body, And you start from your shoulders and you literally squeeze yourself very slowly and mindfully, you know, quite is gentle, but firm. So you're in charge of the pressure, but you always do it downwards, never upwards because you want to bring the energy down. So you start at the shoulders and you just squeeze down. And it's like giving yourself a massive hug. Speaker 2 45:05 - 45:19 You go down to the elbows, down to the wrists. And when you get to the hands, you squeeze your hands. You know, when you work, when you massage your hands, this is another one, a really good tip. I hope I've got time to share because it's really, really easy. Speaker 2 45:20 - 45:20 And again, Speaker 1 45:21 - 45:39 No, no, no. Go ahead. Because obviously he wouldn't be able to do that. So if I was to do it to him, because he, like in the last couple of nights that we had a brief chat before we came on here, he's been so high, like, yes, like excitable and squealy and jumping. Speaker 1 45:39 - 45:46 And it's like two o'clock in the morning. It's just like, yes. Yes. But if I was, he couldn't, I wouldn't be able to explain. Speaker 2 45:46 - 45:56 You wouldn't be able to get near him if he was like that. I wouldn't have been able to with Ollie. No, I completely get that. Sorry, Anna, could you repeat the question? Speaker 1 45:56 - 46:07 So, you know, you're talking about hugging yourself, like you give yourself a hug and you go all the way down your arms to your hands. So if I was to do it for him, would that have the same effect or not? Speaker 2 46:07 - 46:36 I think sometimes, and we both know this, sometimes when it's high, high, if you try to do that, it would feel like you were restraining them. And sometimes they need to, it's like a paper bag in the wind, you have to just You have to let that moment, you know, if it's gone too far. But if you've got those telltale signs of it building up, you can get in there quicker and do it, be proactive rather than reactive. Otherwise, you have to let it blow out and then do it and calm down. Speaker 2 46:36 - 46:40 But what I also... Oh my gosh, Anna. Speaker 1 46:41 - 46:42 I thought my brain was going to explode. Speaker 2 46:42 - 47:04 It's hard. You know, my Ollie really liked having his feet touched. I know we're all different, but there's different points you can do on the feet and the hands and the hands relate to the brain. So what I would do with Ollie is I would literally, if he was lying down, but was really distressed, I would either hold his feet or if he was standing up, I'd just gently put my hands on his feet, but I wouldn't speak to him. Speaker 2 47:04 - 47:29 I would just really breathe deeply. Not like Darth Vader, but loud enough that he would be aware of it. And it's really strange because what that does, you automatically, they automatically start to mirror your breathing. Whereas what I used to do before my training, I would be breathing as fast as him. Speaker 2 47:30 - 48:05 But now when he gets like that, I deliberately breathe really evenly and slowly in through my nose, out through my mouth. And if I can get near him, I'll put my hands just on his feet. But what I will also do, because once he starts to calm down, I'll then get his hand, and I will, and if you cut the hand, the deepest point of your hand, the deepest bit of your palm is, well, in some trainings, I learnt it as the bliss point, and in other trainings, I learnt it as the anxiety point, and it directly relates to the stomach as well as the brain. Speaker 2 48:05 - 48:23 So it's like double whammy, it's brilliant. And when you just literally rotate the pad of your thumb in that, and then do the other hand, that brings the body right, right, right, right down. It brings that energy right, right, right, right down, because it's anxiety. That's what's triggering all this jumping about. Speaker 2 48:23 - 48:51 So what is lovely now is that Ollie will say to me, for instance, there's been a change in the train timetable, or he's got lost somewhere. He'll still panic, but he'll be on the phone to me, but he'll say, mum, I'm doing my palms, I'm doing my palms, because he knows. So he's got tools he can use. And on the feet, if you just press and release each of the toes, the tops of the toes relate to the head. Speaker 2 48:52 - 49:31 So if you just press in the middle of the big toe especially, hold it for two, three seconds and then release, that grounds them, brings that energy down. But what you're also doing is you're calming down the brain. You're getting rid of that, those horrible, you know, that cortisol, that stress hormone, you know, if they're very down, it really, really boosts all of that serotonin, you know, the happiness, confidence, self-esteem. But with the hand, and I'll be really, really quick, I promise, I just want to help so much in this call and just, you know, in this interview, try and help people. Speaker 2 49:32 - 49:55 For those who don't like having their feet touched, you can do the hands, or they can do their own hands. And all you do is, you just very gently, it's so easy, you very gently pull, hold, and then release each thumb and finger. So you do both hands. The thumbs are all about stress and tension. Speaker 2 49:56 - 50:23 The first finger is all about fear and your back, if you have back problems. The third finger, I don't mean to be rude on your interview, but the third finger, if you think of it, some people do stick that up when they cross, That's actually, that relates to anger, frustration and meltdown, believe it or not. The fourth finger is all about relationships and grief. And the little finger is all about the heart and self-esteem. Speaker 2 50:24 - 51:02 And I know that's a lot to remember, but if people scroll back through my wellbeing articles for you, Anna, I've done articles on this with a diagram of the hand that they can freely print out and the feet. And I've done YouTube videos to accompany them. So if they want to refer back, they can go onto your website or my YouTube, whatever. But if they want the articles, you know, the printouts, it's best to go on AnnaKennedy.com because AnnaKennedyOnline.com because then they can freely, freely download those images, whether it's for themselves, if they're doctors, if they're teachers and they want it in their classrooms. Speaker 2 51:03 - 51:38 I don't care. You know, I'm in this just to help as many people as possible. but that gets what we are in control of, you know, those, that daily dose that keeps, it leads to that self-regulation, self-management, that self-empowerment, you know, because if you get them to mirror you, they eventually learn it themselves as well. So they've got those tools and that, if you're empowered by something, do you know that immediately your serotonin is already massively increased just by being able to do that for yourself. Speaker 1 51:40 - 51:54 So can we, I'm trying to pick in as much as we can. So you also practice play therapy. So how do you use it and what are the benefits and how can we access it? And also, could you just give a few links for your Facebook page if people want to follow you or Twitter? Speaker 2 51:55 - 52:24 Oh, that, that's very kind. Um, well my, um, YouTube is just Julianna Wheater, um, Rainbow Kids Touch Therapy. And I share weekly on that. I share daily on my YouTube, sorry, on my Facebook group, which is online rainbow therapies for kids and families, online rainbow therapies for kids and families. Speaker 2 52:24 - 52:44 But it's for everybody, it's for everybody, you know, it's from two months to 200, it doesn't matter. Oh yes, I have got a book. I forgot about that. It's called Indian Head Massage for Special Needs. Speaker 2 52:44 - 53:01 I didn't like that name but I had to go along with that. But it's actually not just the head. It's the back, the arms, the shoulders, the neck, the head and the face. So what I do, and this actually links in quite nicely to Play Therapy, Anna, because... Speaker 2 53:01 - 53:05 Wait, can we get the book? Don't forget. Oh, yes, of course. Jessica Kingsley Publishing, Singing Dragon. Speaker 2 53:06 - 53:17 But you can just order it off of Amazon. It does come under my previous name, Juliana Fenwick, but you can tip X out that bit when you buy the book, everybody. That's fine. I don't mind at all. Speaker 2 53:18 - 53:20 So don't let that throw you. Speaker 1 53:20 - 53:21 It's the same Juliana. Speaker 2 53:21 - 54:03 But linking it back to the Play Therapy, Even down to that, I have gone into specialist schools where there's very young autistic children and they absolutely will not be touched. So what I've done, and I'm also non-verbal too, so I've actually, and my son James took the pictures for the book, and he always says to me, tell people to use the mum, because strictly speaking from a book, you shouldn't photocopy things, should you? But James and I freely give our permission to all of you out there, because the photos are James' copyright, take photographs of them, laminate them. You can put them into board games. Speaker 2 54:03 - 54:19 So if they go up a snake, they get to choose from a lucky dip box. You can do treasure hunts of different massage movements or yoga. I've put it into, I've even done raffle tickets. I've even, when I've had really young children, Don't laugh. Speaker 2 54:19 - 54:46 I've got this 1950s red apron with white spots on and it's frilly and I've given the kids menus and it's actually just got pictures of all the massage strokes and even nonverbal kids can point or I point to what they want. I take down their menu and then I give them their massage and it's completely empowering to them because they've decided on it and they think it's brilliant. You know, they feel like my boss. I'm not just another adult doing something to them. Speaker 2 54:47 - 55:08 or for them and reinforcing that message that they can't do it for themselves, that they can't make decisions. So play therapy is all about that, all about that. I've even bought, and you're gonna scream with laughter at this, and I'm so sorry I'm being a little bit irreverent, because kids always laugh about poo, don't they? And I'm an adult and I still do, but, well, not always, but sometimes. Speaker 2 55:08 - 55:26 And I bought this poo bingo game, and every time we got a counter, you know, we won one of the counters, Or dog bingo, that was another one. It's just whatever the kids are into. I'll buy a bingo or make my own. And whenever they get the bingo card, they then do like, I've got something, they all call it the wizard bag. Speaker 2 55:26 - 55:48 It's like Harry Potter bag. It's purple with little silver strikes of lightning on it. and I'll fill it with all sorts of mindful things. So it might be like, you know, lie down on the floor, take a deep breath in through your nose, a big breath out through your mouth, and then we're all gonna go really, really quiet and hear every tiny pinprick sound for a whole minute. Speaker 2 55:48 - 56:11 And even the kids with pathological demand avoidance will do it because it's a game. You know, it's absolutely, you know, and everybody is included. You know, if I'm doing, putting massage into stories or songs and someone doesn't feel like being touched that day, I'll say, okay, here are all my instruments, my sound therapy instruments, would you like to do the music to it? Would you like to read out the story? Speaker 2 56:12 - 56:26 So every child is engaged, you know, it's all through play, it's all through invitation, so it's massively play therapy based. And even with adults it works. Speaker 1 56:27 - 56:49 Can I ask if someone was to say to you, we've got like two or three minutes, some advice that you would give to yourself all those years ago when your sons were diagnosed on the autism spectrum or neurodivergence, however you want to call it. What advice would you give to yourself? What advice would you give to parents that are just starting out on this journey? Speaker 2 56:50 - 57:12 Well, I would prepare myself that the journey would be hard because I had no idea how hard it would be. But I would also say, do not ever take no for an answer. Don't let anyone define your child. Yes, there are doctors, but without no disrespect, and I work alongside doctors, you know, I'm not against them, I completely work with them. Speaker 2 57:13 - 57:38 But I know when 20 years ago, when I was going through it with Ollie, of the seven years doctors training as general practitioners, one and a half days of that was spent on mental health then. So you can imagine how little was spent on autism. You are your child's specialist, and it's very, very easy to blindly believe everything professionals tell you. Most of them are textbook trained or trained by neurotypical people. Speaker 2 57:39 - 58:05 And whilst they mean well, you've got to be very careful that your child is not forced into expected restrictive behaviors, because they are all unique individuals. You know, my son, Ollie, he tried to take his own life. You know, I was told he'd never achieve. So I always say, like Audrey Hepburn, you take that word impossible, and you pop that apostrophe in and make it I'm possible. Speaker 2 58:06 - 58:14 Your child is your child. And if they've got the strengths, that's not an obsession. That's, you know, grow that. Because it's not just about the passion. Speaker 2 58:14 - 58:25 You're growing that hyperfocus. You know, just, just believe, keep believing. The journey won't be easy. But you know, keep on top of it with the schools, keep on top of it with the funding. Speaker 2 58:26 - 58:46 And above all, the one thing that I didn't do, and I still don't do, I'm only just learning it now, and this is really embarrassing as a therapist to admit, I have only realized in the last six weeks that you cannot pull someone out of a hole if you're in it with them. You cannot pour from an empty cup. Self-care is vital. Speaker 2 58:47 - 59:14 And if you don't do that, if you don't keep your daily dose going, You know, it's a proven statistic that as parents of neurodivergent children, our stress and fatigue levels are the equivalent of combat soldiers back from the front line. But we haven't had any training. I'm not saying we're worse off. I'm just saying we haven't had any preparation for that. Speaker 2 59:14 - 59:27 And we don't get holidays. We don't get any, you know, it's 365 days a year for us. So please, look after yourselves, you know, go on Anna's website, go on the latest news, look up these things. Speaker 1 59:27 - 59:45 We've got 30 seconds. Oh, I'll let you speak. Thank you for being you, thank you for doing everything that you do for the charity and for all the families and I'm sure we'll arrange another interview in the future, so thank you, thank you. Speaker 2 59:45 - 59:52 Thank you Anna and good luck, congratulations on the National Diversity Awards nomination, it's so well deserved. Speaker 1 59:52 - 59:56 Thank you.