All Things Autism – Mona Shah, Harry Specters Chocolates

Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We talk in all things autism. And we're here for another week and it's been another busy week, not our usual weeks, but obviously we're doing what we can within the charity and chatting and supporting to families. And I've had quite a few calls from adults on the spectrum, actually, either via phone or through social media. Some of them are struggling or asking for advice. Also, to update you that our photography and artwork competition has now closed. So we have had quite a few fantastic photography and artwork 2D and 3D that have come through to us. So I would not like to be the judges. Our three judges are going to have to choose winners and runners up. So the winner will get a £50Amazon voucher and the runner up will get a 15 pound Amazon voucher. So our judges are Chris Wild, who is an artist and also a presenter. David Grant MBE, who is husband to Carrie Grant, but also they're both vocal coaches and presenter. And Dr. Pam Spurr, who's I'm pleased to say, is going to be one of the women's radio station presenters, but also has been a big supporter of our charity and she has got back into art. So I went to one of our exhibitions and it was really, really amazing. So another feather or a string to her bow. Just to remind you that our chat that we've been having with Casey Ainsworth, Cary Grant and last week with John Paul and Richard Milan, and sad to say that Richard's mum just recently died. So best wishes and condolences to the family and their talks are on our Anna Kennedy online YouTube channel. So if you want to check it out, just go onto the charity website, www.anna Kennedy online.com check out the YouTube and our workshops are on there as well by Paul and by Joe Luck, my ambassadors, talking about my ambassadors, one of my autistic teen advocates has. She's just such an amazing young woman at 16. She's written a book. She's just. I just taught so many, so many different things that she's been doing and now she's being a young leader for the Secretary and General Envoy on youth for the United Nations. So congratulations to Sienna Castellon. She is on our charity website as well and I've shared about her award. So if you want to read it, it's on our latest news. And the last thing I just wanted to say is about the theaters because obviously we need our theaters to do our shows for Autumn's Got Talent and for the Roadshow. So we have put an article up on Our website saying Save Our Theatres action is needed urgently to save the theatre and events industry before it's too late. Theatre is important to us as a charity for our wonderful Autumn's Got Talent shows and road shows that we take across the country, showcasing and giving a springboard to our talented autistic performers. And what also families are missing out on is the relaxed performances which are happening across the theatres throughout the country. So we're going to be missing out on those and pantomimes. So that allows the autumn community and families to come along to enjoy a performance without being judged, allowing for noise and movement in the auditorium. So my guest today, I'm pleased to say, is Mona Shah. And Mona is the founder of Harry Spectres, which is an inclusive social enterprise which employs and empowers young autistic adults to create and package luxury artisan chocolates. And I have tasted them and they are delicious. I just love them. I love the way they're packed. I love everything about them. So I'm not going to say any more because I'm going to let Mona tell you all about them. But before we go into that, I just wanted to say a big welcome to you, Mona. Hello. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you. Thank you for coming along to chat to me. So tell me about who is Mona? Before we talk about autumn, before we talk about chocolate, talk to me about who is Mona? Well, I'm originally from Pakistan, born and raised in Dubai, but then moved back to Pakistan when I was around 18. Yeah. So families all in part spread all over the world. Got like four sisters, including myself, and then two brothers all over the globe, hardly ever see each other. We moved to England in 2006. Okay. And I can go back, go into the reasons for moving later, But I've got two kids, a daughter who's now 29 and a son, Ash. He's 22 and he's autistic. Okay. So when was your son diagnosed? So Ash was born in 98 in Pakistan and he was diagnosed just before his third birthday. Right. Which I think was a really good time because the younger the diagnose, the sooner you can start therapies. Can I ask, have you, had you heard anything about autism? Did you, have you ever heard of the word? Did you know any other children or adults that were autistic? No, this is way back in 98. And before that I just had Mina. And so we had. We were living in Singapore at the time and I had Mina, of course. She was like the total opposite of Ash. So she did everything before her milestones. Yeah. So we just knew. Okay, so Mina started talking already. Mina started walking already. And then Ash comes along and everything's delayed. We were never planning to be honest on having another child because Mina was seven when he was born. And the only reason we had Ash was because she kept saying, everyone's got a brother or a sister. I want a brother or sister. And we kept giving her Barbies and toys and stuff, and she's like, no, I want an actual one, for God's sake. Okay, fine. So then we had Ash and she was like, oh, why is Ash not doing this and why is he not doing that? And so. And so his brother does this. And I was like, yeah, but I'm a bit worried as well. And of course, because it's Pakistan and my husband's from a village that's like, on the border of Afghanistan, so really not. And so you have all those village stories as well, so. No, no. So and so's kid didn't start walking until he was four. So that's fine. It's normal. Sometimes there's a delay. But there were other things going on. Like initially he was babbling when he was supposed to, giving eye contact, responding to his name. And then suddenly it stopped when he was around 2. And I was like, okay, maybe there's a hearing issue now. So we had him tested and his hearing's fine. He's always been attracted to music. He loves music. Even now, that is the one thing. He loves music. And that was the case since he was a child. So no matter where we were in the park or somewhere, if there was music playing somewhere, he'd go straight to us. That's so I kind of, on one level, knew it's not a hearing issue, but you kind of cling on to that, don't you don't want it to be anything else. You don't want to be something that you can't deal with hearing. Okay, you have an implant and there will be issues, but you know, it's something tangible that you can do something about. And then she has a sister who lives in the States. She came for a visit and she was like, I think you need to have them assessed by psych psychologist. And oh, my God, I was so annoyed with her. I was like, now why is she saying this? Because that was like my deepest fear. And having that voice is something that, you know, even today I tell her I was so annoyed with you that she was. I could see that from your face because it's not Something easy to hear. But now you probably knew it, but you didn't want to accept it, I suppose. Yes. Yeah, you. You want to think, okay, those. Those old village wives tales, let them be true this time. Yeah, so. So, yeah, so we took him, got him assessed, and they were like, yeah, I think it's autism. And I was like, okay. The only time I'd heard about autism was Rain Man. Yeah. Oh, my God. Okay. My son's a genius. Now I know everything else. Okay, he's a genius. But of course, that's not normally the case. It's very, very rare. They have some talents they're really good at, but that genius category, it's just a very low percentage of that. Talking about savants there, that very, very low percentage. And what frustrates me is that when you meet someone, they say, oh, what's your son's talent? And it's just like, no, it's not like that. It's all because of the media, and that's the way they portray it. And it's not like the everyday mundane stuff that you have to deal with that's never shown on any movie. I think they started doing a bit now, but at the time it was just wingman. So what happened? And then, of course, again, it's Pakistan, so there's no state support. There are no special needs schools. There was nothing at the time. And it's a very, very discriminatory society. So of course, I knew there were going to be challenges. I had no idea exactly the level of challenges I would face. The first thing was that, okay, he's got autism, so what's next? So we went to this suppose again, the still. It's still called the National Handicap center, even now. We've seen the borders. Oh, my God, I hate that word. I was like, okay, so even now, when we went for a visit, we passed by that place, and I was like, it's still called the National Handicap center, but it was like a massive spanking new building funded by Saudi Arabia. Okay. So we were like, okay, thank God this is here. We can get something done. So met with the director, a lady doctors. I know she had a whole wall full of degrees. So I was like, yeah, so this is our son and we want to start therapy, and he's autistic. And she's like, what's that? What? She said that? Yes. Oh, my words. Think I would have got him and go out the door and Chad and I just chat with my husband. We're looking at each other like, okay. And then we had to explain to her because we had just been. And this is like the dial up Internet time where you have all the clinking and the. All of that thing. So we still went online and checked what is autism? So we could be prepared for the jargon that she was going to say or whoever it is. It turned out we had to give her the whole rundown of exactly what autism. And she was like, right, how do you know he's got this? And I was like, because we had assessed. This is the report. And she was like, okay. So I said, well, what sort of therapist do you have here? And stuff? And. And then she called on the psychologist and it was. It was a man. I remember very clearly because Ash always has had this orientation and space issue. Okay. And so. And he'd stumble quite a bit. So. And anytime he fell, that would be it. That would be like a whole tantrum. So I just got into the whole mode of, you know, making sure he doesn't fall. Yeah. Which meant I was normally hovering. So the psychologist. So while he's taking us to his room, there was like a little step and I knew he was going to stumble over that. So before he did, he could. I was there to hold him. I was like, I don't want this thing to start with him crying and then nothing's going to happen. And he was like, I don't even know if it's autism. I think you're just being very overprotective. I mean, I've just seen that now. So maybe you're not letting him develop. And this is even before he's asked us any questions. Oh dear. So how did you progress? Well, as you can imagine, not very well. Okay. So then he was like, okay, so we're gonna have to have him assessed again. I was, okay, that's fine. And I was like, so. But we went to the specialist place and so we live in Slabad, and this is another city, Lahore, with the specialist center, basically, which was like, you know, four kids with special needs. So it was like a center for diagnosis, only there was no treatment there. Again, so initially we had gone there, but obviously, because it's like a six hour drive, there was no way we could actually start therapy over there. So we had to do it where we lived in the capital. So anyway, so long story short, that meeting did not go well and I ended up giving him a piece of my mind, as one would. And I was like, okay, so we'll have to do something privately again, there's nothing that I could have Done. So I looked around, there was this one speech and language therapist and I was like, okay, so I'm gonna have to engage her privately, which I did. And she was lovely. So he just goes to her house. But before all that, there was so many things because he didn't have any fine motor movements, he didn't have gross motor movement, he wouldn't sit. Eye contact, of course, no way. During that time, Shah had to go to the States for some business thing he was doing. So I said, like, what you need to do is go there to one of the autism centers and get me some books that they recommend so that I can actually sit here and make a whole program for him, which I can then give to the therapists. Yeah. So it was like a whole case of me first studying about autism and then actually designing program which included like. So his whole day was full of therapy. So six days a week, he just had the Sunday off at 9am he'd, he'd get up and then he'd have a behavior therapist come in and then he'd go for his speech therapy. Then it'd be a lunch break and then I'd have somebody come in to teach him fine motor skills. And then in the evening, I engaged a coach from one of the school, a PE teacher, and he came to the park. Well, I take, I'd go with him. So everywhere we were, I was with him. And then of course, he just would like play ball with him because he didn't know how to kick and go on the jungle gym, try get his gross motor skills sorted so that he'd have more of control over his movements and not keep falling over. Okay. So that went on for some time. So will you be able to work or did you have to stay at home? So the thing is, initially when we went to Singapore, the idea was that I do my bachelor's in computer science, right. As is an electrical engineer, and he was doing his master's day in semiconductor theory. So I was like, okay, I'll do this. But then I got pregnant. Okay. So I was, okay, I'm not going to be doing this now. So I put that on hold. And then when Mina was three, we came back and then of course got her settled in school and stuff and I said, okay, now I can actually do my degree so that I went to college. So it was an evening college that was fine because Shaz's parents would take care of Meena until Shaz got back from work. Okay. So there was like two hour gap. It's good you had an extended family because a lot of parents don't have extended family support. So that was good that you were able to help. So in Pakistan it's a lot, it's a joint family. So I used to live with my in laws. Okay. And of course that's like. And they're lovely people. So it would have been a problem if I had to get along with them. But they were lovely, very supportive of everything. And Mina was the first granddaughter. She was the apple of her eye. What's her relationship like with her brother? Oh, well, she's. They're very, very close. Oh, that's lovely because we keep reminding her. Oh, hello. You were the one who wanted him. Okay, so you came over to England then? No. So over there. So we started doing that. And then until he was five, he. With constant therapy. It was only when he was just five years and a few months that he actually started saying a few words. Okay. Which is good. But then of course we also thought he needs to go to school because he needed that because he was just with me the whole day or with female therapists. And I was like, okay, he needs to be with kids his own age. Because this was no state school, we had to look at private schools, three or four. Initially they wouldn't take him and then we had to pay extra for him to be there. And even then, because of the whole experience I had with people there, I would just do spot checks. So I'd go and just sneakily sit in my car outside the gates and watch what was going on. And a few times I've just seen him. I was just seeing him outside, like, you know, swings or something. Tear stained face with a maid. And then so I went and I was like, what is going on? They were like, yeah, because he doesn't sit in class and it's distracting for the other students. I was like, yes, but that's the, that's what we told you was this issue. And you said you were fine with it. And they were like, yeah, we are trying. And then a couple of days later, and this was in different schools, they were like, I'm sorry, we can't keep your son anymore. So why not? Because the other parents are complaining. They don't want anybody. They don't want a mad boy in school with their kids because they're paying a lot of money for them to be in the school and they don't want them, you know, basically associating with somebody who's mad. Again, you can imagine the same thing would happen when I take him to the park because he loved going to the park. He loved going. He couldn't talk. So he was always grimacing and hand flapping and making sounds because he was so excited. And people running towards the kids, the kids themselves, they were all right. It was the parents. The parents would come and drag the kids away and be like, no, no, you don't want to be with him. He's mad. This is what happens when in Pakistan, when they're this age. That's the sort of education they get and that's why they become like their parents grow up. So it's like the whole vicious cycle. Yeah. So no school was taken and I was just getting so frustrated and I just told Shah, you know, he doesn't understand the word mad and he doesn't understand, but he's missing out on this. And once he starts understanding what this is, he's going to get into depression and there's no future here for him. Yeah. So that's when we decided we needed to move. So in mind, my family, my mom and dad were there and they lived in the same city, 10 minutes away. Shaz, parents and his brother, a brother and a sister were there. So there was. He was. At the time he had finished off his. He had sold off his business and he was now teaching at an engineering university. So he was well settled there. All his friends were there. And then I tell him, we need to move because there's nothing. And Meena, of course, she was like 15 at the time. Okay. So that's an age where you took. Because she was just about to go into her old levels and she had the same friends from primary. Yeah. And it wasn't an easy decision to make, but thinking. I kept staying awake at night thinking, what's going to happen with him when he's. I mean, if we delay it now, at some point we will need to do something and make this decision. So the best thing to do is do it now while we're still young enough to be able to migrate somewhere and actually get ourselves used to a different society in a different country. Okay. So we tried Canada because I have a sister there. Shaza's friends there. Okay. They refused. Tried Australia because Shaz got friends there and specifically said on their form that, do you have anybody with autism? That's how discriminatory was. Did you actually get to go there or was this just. No, this through the embassy when we got the cast. Because we had to actually. You can't just up and go. So there had to be some Sort of a scheme, some sort of. Okay, because over here was like, I remember now. But it was for. It was a point system, okay, for this place. And based on those points, you could actually come here or not. And basically for professionals that we came on. But yeah, so we tried Australia, we tried Canada. America, of course, wasn't. No visas were open for immigration. And then we contacted an immigration lawyer for this Australian thing. I said, what the hell? And they were like, we can actually do something. You can contest this if they don't give, if they're not taking Ash. But what would happen is that because they're happy for you guys and Mina to go. We had to leave Ash behind, go there and then we can start the case. I'm not gonna leave him behind. They haven't got any common sense. I can't just leave him. I said, no, forget it, we'll think of something else. And then I'm afraid England was our last choice because we have nobody here. Okay? And so Shaz got the forms and he was like, okay, it's a point based system. So we took all the box at the beginning. I said, no, just look at the fine print. Is there something that says autism? And we scanned again and again, there was nothing there. I was like, this has got to be a cat. Okay, let's just fill it in and then see what happens. So you got like the initial interview at the embassy there. And so it was like for the whole family. And I was like, oh, my God, they're gonna, we're gonna go there and they're gonna see him flapping his hands and grimacing and they'll be like, you didn't, you didn't volunteer this information. So we're not going to be able to go. Do we have to go for the interview? Can you join Mina? Not just go. And they're like a family thing. I was like, oh, God. So the whole time I was at the embassy and just got CCTV everywhere, okay? Now they're going to be watching Ash and they'll say, oh, he's autistic or is something wrong? He's got mental health issues. So then I was just singing to him and like pretending he's flapping his hands because I'm sort of, you know, trying to disguise the fact that he's actually grimacing and flapping his hands and pretending he's singing along to the song. And then I was like, okay, I can do this. Now what's gonna happen when I'm actually gonna go in directly for the interview? So Shaz comes out after, like 10 minutes. He goes, okay, let's go. I said, let's go in. He was like, yeah, we got it. I said, well, they didn't even want to see us. They're like, no, they were fine. Oh, I bet they didn't want to jump up and down. And I was quick to know. I said, quick, quick, let's get out of it before they change their mind. What year was this? This was in 2006. Okay. So March 2006. Shaz came here because I was like, we need to let me know. Finish her year at school. Yeah. And then I said, you go there. And of course, I didn't want to disrupt Ash's therapies right away. So I said, you come here and then you find a job and then we'll join you. So then we came in August when Shaz got a job. So initially we was in High Wycombe, and so that's where we went. And so. But the thing is that when we were coming here, it's like an eight hour flight. Yes. And for three or four hours before that, we have to be there. So for Ash, this was the first long haul flight he had. Okay. And he was not happy. I can imagine. Because my son doesn't like flying. He just hates it, the whole experience. He was also having his ear issues. And first, because he was, like, having ear pain and he was crying and he was so cranky, he wouldn't sleep. He threw up. And it was the first time I'd actually flown this lot with Ash and with Mina. And Mina was like, she's trying her best, poor thing, but there's only so much. He wouldn't listen after all that. And we came here and I was like, totally. Both of us were absolutely exhausted with that. And. But when you come here from somewhere like Pakistan, they do like a TB test. Okay. Which I didn't. Chaz had said that they do it. And I was like, oh, my God, that's going to take longer. And there were, like massive queues for the immigration and was going crazy in the queue, and I was just trying to, you know, makes it cajole him and make him keep quiet, but he wouldn't. And then I saw two airport officials coming towards me. I was like, oh, no, I haven't even gone through immigration. And they're gonna say, oh, there's something wrong with your kid. They're gonna check my stuff and they're gonna send me back. They're gonna deport me even before I get through immigration. That's how terrified I was when they were coming towards me initially. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna blank you out. Yeah. And they're going, excuse me, ma'. Am. Excuse me, ma'. Am. I was like, no, no. And Mina was like, mom, you have to turn around now. Right there. I was like, yeah. And I was like, I'm sorry, were you talking to me? And they were like, yeah. Is everything okay? I was like, no, he's just not feeling well. He's had a really bad, long flight and it was his first time flying and. And he's basically okay. He's not normally like this. And they were like, oh, no, no, that's fine. We were just going to ask you to come to the front of the queue. Hooray. I could have just cried at the time. These are the different mentalities. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my God, they're gonna come and they're gonna. What is going on? But no, it was this. Come to the front of the queue. Yeah. Oh, that was good. That was my first experience of England with an autistic son. Because we had come earlier, we had come during our honeymoon, we had gone across Europe, but this was like the first time. So much at stake. Okay. Oh, that's amazing. So we've got a lot to get through. So I just wanted to talk about. So you've come to England, so you went to High Wycombe. So can we now talk a little bit about Harry Spector's and your chocolate business and how it's linked to your son? So when you moved here, obviously you were like, okay, so he went to special needs school, he got statemented, everything was fine. And this was like, in Cambridge now, special needs school here. But as you grew up and stuff, I was talking to the parents and they were all worried about what their kids were going to do once they left the safety of a special needs school. I was like, oh, that's the problem, because this is England. And they were like, no, it's really bad. So then I went on the National Autistic Society's website and I was shocked to see the statistics about employment and autism. There are around 600,000 adults with autism in the UK of working age, only 16% are in any kind of employment. That's right. Over 60% of those on benefits, desperate to work, able to work, but they can't find jobs. There are no opportunities for them. So then, in the meantime, once Chair Ashwint to special needs school, I joined the Cambridge and Peterborough NHS Foundation Trust. Which was a mental health and learning disabilities trust. Okay. As the corporate governance and membership manager and then later as a deputy press secretary. But yeah, I was there for years and I could see that it's not a good situation because obviously it's NHS and the wards and stuff like that. And it was, you know, I was just thinking, if he goes down the route of depression and stuff, because once he leaves school, he'll want to do something and if he doesn't get that, he doesn't have that routine, then it's going to be a big problem. What can he do? So while I was at the trust, I've always loved baking and I was working with chocolate and so I was like, okay, I'll just go. So we went on a family holiday to Scotland. This was in 2011, 2010. And I went to Ian Burnett's chocolate shop in Grand Tilly and he had all of these, it was an amazing shop. And he had all of these awards from the Academy of Chocolate. Oh my God, there's actually an Academy of Chocolate. And so I came back and I was like, okay, I need to go and see what this Academy of Chocolate. So it was, it's in Banbury, it's a caliber academy and they do like chocolate courses. I was like, oh, okay, I think I'll do that for myself. And so I went there for a two day course and in the meantime we had thinking about what we should do, what we should do for not only Ash, for others like him. Shaz being in the whole engineering thing and electronics and stuff, he was like, we could do like a software company and basically hire people to do the decoding and, you know, the testing and stuff like that, debugging things. And they will use like, it's quite, you know, routine stuff and it's quite focused. So they might. And there are other companies that have employed autistic people to do this so we could do something like that. And I get that's a good idea. But then when I went to the academy, it was like, everything's routine. There's a process to every single thing in chocolate making and the smells and the whole sensual thing of chocolates. I was like, oh my God, it's really good for sensory thing as well. I came back all excited and I thought maybe this is something autistic people could do. It's something I wanted to do as well. So, yeah, so I came back and I told Shan, he was like, okay, so what's the startup cost and stuff? I said, well, no, I'm not gonna really go and get massive machinery. I just need a tabletop tempera and let's just start with that. So that's what I did. And then I started, excuse me, practicing different recipes because they're all filled chocolates. And so I started with truffles and I told Ash to come and dip the truffle and he did and he loved it. So he'd be dipping truffles. It was like really good for his fine moja as well. And he picked it up very well. So I was telling his friends moms at school and they were like, oh, okay. So on the weekends some of their kids used to come and they loved it too. So, okay, I've got something going. Guys took chocolates to the trust and people loved them. So the project was there the concept of hiring autistic people. So it was all, you know, sort of like testing phase. And I was like. And the more I thought about it, the more I was like, okay, this is something I could put do. It's not like a massive startup cost as well and I can just work from the back of the house. So I went part time at the trust and started doing more of this because I kept getting orders from the trust and things and I hadn't actually started a company yet. Then I said, okay, I need some funding for this. So I was just going online to do something else. And I found out about the school for social entrepreneurs. And what they do is they sort of. There's like a 4,000 pound grant funded by Lloyds bank and they like, it's like a whole year course and so you have to go and pitch like a Dragon's Den thing. So I wanted that in 2012. And that's where I found out about social enterprises. I mean, I went and I pitched and I took a box of chocolates and of course I got. Is that grant still available now if people are thinking about setting up their own business? Yes, I think it had stopped for a bit. So it's not like £4,000 anymore. Reduced it, but that course is still going. So it's a school for social entrepreneurs. Unlimited is another organization. They have like startup courses. And then of course the key funding is throughout the life of your social enterprise some way or the other. Okay, so how did you come up with the recipes for the chocolates? Was it something you had in mind or did you speak to your son or how did. How did you come up with the different recipes? I think it's like a team effort as well. And also I look at trends. So the initial thing, I was very basic. It was like a smooth vanilla and, you know, 60% and stuff. I wasn't being very adventurous. Okay. Adventurous thing I did was the rose and cardamom. And that was the first time I entered the Great Taste Awards. And the Rosen cardamom got a three star Great Taste award, which is like the Oscars of the fine food industry. And I was like, yeah, of course. We also, like, because of our Asian background. Yeah. We're used to dealing with complex flavors. Right. And we sort of intuitively know which will work with what. So, like, I've got one chocolate recently, raspberry and elderflower. That works really well. That sounds nice. And we've got one salted lime because I know lime is nice. And then if you add a bit of salt, it just becomes extra. It's a special kick. Okay, so where did the name Harry Spector come from? Yeah, see, that's something Ash came up with as well, starting this before that. I think he was like 12 at the time. And he loves working on his laptop and he loves food. So when I went into his room, he was like, he had this Word document open. He had pictures in as well, and it was like a whole menu going on there. I was like, what is this? He was like, this is a menu for a restaurant which I'm going to open when I grow up. And I was like, oh, okay. So it had all his favorite foods and it was just like a total Asian food and pizzas and everything else you could think of was on that menu. So I said, what are you going to call it? And he was like, harry Spector's. I was like, that's an odd name. Where did you come up with that name from? And he was like, it's from my head, Mom. Oh, well, I like it. So. And he was. And he's not a Harry Potter fan either, so it was just random that way. He came up with this name. And so a few years later when I was doing this, I said, you know, this is what I'm trying to do, Ash, and. And your friends will put work as well, you know, just before autistic people. And I said, I don't know what to call it. And he just looks at me like, fine, you can call it Harry Specters and I'll help you out. So, yeah, that's how it all started. When did you start making sales then? And, you know, making it into a business. And how did you feel about selling things? Were you, like, worried or were you excited or was it all mixed into one? All mixed into one, basically because I left my job at the trust against the chief execs, advice and warning and threats in the end is like, you're gonna come back, you're gonna be so sorry doing this. You're leaving such a good career for chocolate. I was like, no, I'm not leaving for chocolate, I'm leaving for autism. If you can't understand that, then there's no point, is there? Me hanging around. But yeah, so I had that fear as well. Okay, what if I'm, you know, I fall flat on my face and then, you know, you have all this ambition that oh, this is what I want to do and all of a sudden you have this whole image and it's all dream in front of you. So that fear that that might not be realized either. But I said, okay, it doesn't matter, I'm just going to start small and see how it goes. So I registered a social enterprise because while on that course I found out about social enterprises. So basically it's just like a normal business. So we are for profit business. What we do with those profits is what makes us different to normal businesses. So 1% of profits go back into the business to further the social goals. Yeah. So basically if you have shareholders, they just have like 49% to do anything with. And we have an asset lock as well. So any assets that we. Because we also get funding like from Lloyds bank and then later from Unlimited. If something goes wrong in the business, then you can't sell your assets. These assets will then go to another asset locked company. All right, got you. So it's just to prevent people and frauds and things like that because people will take advantage of any funding available. So yeah, so that's the thing that differentiates us. And generally you have somebody, a founder who's passionate about because otherwise it won't work. Because it's really, really hard work. Running a social life. If you're not passionate, you're not driven and you don't believe in what you do, there's no point. No point. Yeah. And because it's like you balancing two things with the business, it's like, okay, you just have to make sure you survive and into profits. But when you're running a social enterprise and because your social cause at the core, every decision you make or you think of making, it's always going to be a balance between the cause and growing the business. You can't get too much automation in because that means less work. But if you don't get the automation in. That means you won't be able to fulfill that many orders, which means you'll be missing out on the larger orders, which means you won't be able to grow the social enterprise. Okay. You're not still working from your table at home, are you? Oh God no. Just checking. Yeah. You started in the back of our house. The conservatory was a packaging area. You still see pictures of that on our Facebook page. And then in 2015 we raised investment and moved to purpose, special purpose production area in Ely, which meant that we had so that we live in the south of Cambridgeshire now in the east. That's like 40 minutes drive. So there was no point doing that. So then we had to move houses as well. Okay, so you've been moving around a bit then? Yeah, a bit like my dad. My dad was always like when I was younger, he's Italian, he's moved to 13 houses and after the 14th house my mom said, that's it, I'm not moving. Oh dear. So. So you've got your new premises and it's still called Harry Spectres. And how many adults do you employ that are on the spectrum? Yeah, so we've got like six who are like full time equivalent you could call it. And then we've got another 20 which is like a pool of trained people and we get them in during seasonal rushes as well as large corporate orders. We sell online and then we've got our corporate clients and then of course we also have direct customers. We used to go to markets and stuff. But our online, we started the online thing in November 2012 and that's the one that, you know, that's the consistent revenue stream throughout. How many chocolates do you reckon you sell every year? We had the thing and I think it's more like 20, 25,000 at least. So I've got the exact numbers somewhere. That's a lot of chocolate. Yeah. Last year we, the number of chocolates we sold was equal to the population of Cambridge. Wow. So that was like a chocolate for every person that we sold. So it's online. So do you have a shop? So we won. I mean brick and mortars. It was always going to be my dream. Yes. I want to have my own chocolate shop, something physical where I can see customers and things. And then the Grafton center in Cambridge, they had this competition grew at the Grafton because they had just refurbished the Grafton last year and it was like over I think around local businesses applied and we won. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. So, well, yeah, it's Not a reason to congratulate anymore because we've had to close the shop. But it was really nice. And so it was like, free for a whole year. Yeah. And if it doesn't work out, then you can just pack up and go. There were no strings, Right. Okay with you? Some Covid impacted on you. Coronavirus. And obviously, yes, that's why we had to close the shop. Oh, is that why? Yeah, because there was. It was always going to be like a shop come. Cacao bar. So really big. The biggest shop they had to offer me. And I was like, yeah, I want this because on one side I'm going to have, like this really cozy cacao bar if people can come and just relax. Yeah. And there'd be, like, amazing chocolate desserts and a chocolate tap. I had all of those things lined up. I had this whole mood board going. Maybe you can do it when coronavirus is gone and start again. Yeah, maybe. I don't know, kind of sour thing. But yeah. So we had to obviously close the shop during lockdown. Now I just think there's no point. So I've told them I'm not going to continue with any. Okay, so what about the adults that are working for you, that are autistic? How are they coping with restrictions and, you know, what's the process for them when they apply for a job for you and anybody thinking, oh, I might like to do something like that? Is there any tips and advice that you can give to them? Well, basically one thing is that, you know, you really have to be passionate about it. You have to really persevere. Means long days and long nights. Because in the six weeks up to Christmas, we just get, like, three hours of sleep. Wow. It's like constant. But at the end of the day, if you're just passionate about what you're doing, it just makes it all worthwhile. Because when I started this, I left a really good career in the nhs. Shaz was working for Samsung and he left that as well. So we're still not paying ourselves as much as we would have, but it's just that sense of achievement and that feeling that, yes, you're actually making a difference that just overshadows any monetary compensation you could possibly have had, as long as you're healthy and happy. That's what's key, I think, is that with the people who work here on our team, I keep calling them kids, even though they're not. But with me, it's always like, don't. The kids will be coming. And then people like, what? Sorry, My team is coming, but I just look at them like that. They're ash. See, so all of them are just like ash. And I'm in really good terms with the parents and the carers and they get the love that I would and I tell them, you know, you guys are just like ash. So just like I reprimand him and he does something wrong, I will do the same to you. But no, it will be for your own good. And I will expect perfection. Well, this is not a charity, it's not daycare. You will work and you will work hard and you will work to perfection because I know you are capable of doing that. So no mucking around. Yeah, I totally agree. So can you talk to me a little bit about the interview process and what adjustments that you need to make and anybody listening in that might be a potential employer that they would need to make? The first thing is that if it's a very formal interview, they can't cope with that. If you just tell them you're coming in for an interview, that's just like saying, okay, they'll just freeze. So initial contact is either by the school. Because we do lots of work experience placements, we do free work experience and around 95% of our employees have come through the work experience program. So when we get somebody on work experience, our aim is that, yes, if they fit in, if they do the job properly, if they fit in with the team, and if they have this willingness to learn and take constructive criticism, then we do want to employ them. Once they leave full time education, our aim is always, you know, get those people in and get them young because the longer they're out of education and the longer they don't get a job, the more they have like other issues like depression and anxiety and then it's very difficult for them to cope. Okay, so like the, the youngest I've told you we had was Bruce when he was 15. Yeah, he came from a local college and he's 18 now and he's like the assistant chocolatier because I could see. And he's been working through, he normally works through his half terms and since lockdown finished, he's been working here. He comes during the Christmas rushes. He comes after college during the Christmas busy period and then works until 8 or 8:30 and he gets paid. So while they're in education, I pay them when they're not here on work experience, so they have the work experience there. And then I tell the parents, can they come on the weekend or can they come in the evenings? And then they get paid. And that gives them this self confidence and they think, yes, because most of the time it's the first time they've been paid. Yeah. And also they want to contribute to society just like everybody else. Precisely. And it's so important for them to do that. I mean, right now, okay, yes, they're in school or college and. But if they start thinking from now, understanding from now, that, yes, once we leave, we will get paid, that's just this amazing step for their self confidence. One of the initial people I had was a young girl, lovely young girl, quite capable. She was Asperger's. She had gone to uni, but not adjusted well socially and then came back with anxiety and depression issues. She wouldn't say anything. And then mom found out about us. Then she slowly started joining us and I trained her into chocolate making and then she started supervising the work experienced students. And she was like, mini me. I used to call her Mini Me. So mini me was, you know, I'd go to meetings and Mini would be handling the orders, she'd be looking at the orders, she'd be making the chocolate, she'd be supervising the rest of the team. And she started talking, she started answering the phone. Mom was happy. But mom always said that this is not something she wants to do for the rest of her life. But it's been amazing to see her grow in confidence. Yeah. She started playing Pokemon and then going out with friends, something she had never done before. Then she applied for a job at Amazon as a data analyst. It was really funny because she goes, mona, can I take the next week? I think it was a Tuesday off next week. I was like, yeah, sure. You doing anything fun? She was like, I have a job interview. Okay. So that was like. That was before Amazon was for some other tech company. And then she didn't say anything. I was like, so what's happened with that? And then she came back and she's like, oh, I've done the interview. Am I okay to. And then like a week later I was like, have you heard? She was like, I didn't get it. Am I still okay to work here? I was like, yeah. And then she tells me I've got an interview with Amazon. And I kept chasing. I said, chase and see what happened? And then she came and said that I got the job, which is great. It was just before the Christmas rush, though. And she was like, they want me to join right away. But I said, no, fine, you go, it's fine. Can I ask you about sensory stuff? Because we're moving on with time here because I would imagine the smells to be quite strong of some of the chocolates and some of the ingredients. Do you have any issues with the adults where they find them? It might be a little bit overwhelming. How do you, how do you deal with that? No, they don't because I mean we've got like machines going, we've got tempering machines over here and the vibrating table is quite noisy beforehand. When they come in for an initial chat I just find out if they have any issues with noise and stuff. And then because when we get somebody in it's look at the person and then create a role for them, not the other way around. Okay, okay. They're good in this and this and this. And I just ask them like, you know, so what are your interests? What are your favorite subjects? Stuff like that. And then, you know, sort of why do you want to join here or why do you want to work here? And then I sort of assess and I start them off with something really basic like folding boxes or just putting chocolates in and see and stuff so that they could sort of, you know, familiarize themselves with the place and with the team. And I like a buddy system going. So then packaging. I'll have one of the guys who's really, really friendly and who's been here since 2015 anyway when he moved here. So he'll help out and, or he'll do that, the whole buddy thing and give him an induction and stuff and then after that I'll just see. Okay, if they're good in computer skills, I'll give them something computer based. If they, and if they've got really good fine motor skills or if they're doing catering then I might get them to us making Choco Pops or the chocolate bars or Slabs or something like that and then just see how it goes. So enough goes because. And they love this, they love. It's not like there is like this smell of chocolate which after a few days I can't smell. So anybody coming and goes, oh my God, this place smells of chocolate. And the guys don't feel it after a while either because you just get so used to it. Okay, so what are your long term goals then for Harry Specters? Where can you see Harry Specters in five years time? Ten years time? Yeah. So last year if you had asked me, I would have said I'm going to be opening another 10 stores all over the UK so that I can get the local people, local people to be there. But of course that's not going to happen now. And with the COVID around right now we're just thinking about, let's get through the next month, to be honest. But, you know, I've always wanted to have, like, clusters across the UK so that local people can benefit and local communities can benefit, because not everybody can travel to a massive production unit in. In Ely. So I want to have something local. And we were thinking, because we're just focusing on our online sales right now and on different online platforms that could be. We could just have, like, packaging areas somewhere else. Maybe production can be in one place, which is, like, central, like the hq, which would be Cambridge, and then just have. Instead of replicating machines everywhere, just have, like, packaging hubs. So has deliveries been impacted? Because I know at one point, obviously, when people were ordering items from Amazon or wherever it was that was taken longer for the items to get to them. Did you have experience any of those difficulties? Yeah, we had those and we had quite a few parcels that were lost. But I know Royal Mills trying. Oh, dear. It's like a very difficult time. But the guys over here, they've taken it on board. Hand sanitizers everywhere, they're fine with that social distancing. There's still issues with that. Telling them, space, space, space, space, because they're so used to being in your face that it's very difficult for them to just give that space because they think, okay, it's all fine, this is our place, this is our safe zone. So why do we still have to have the social distancing? Which is why, instead of stressing them out too much, I've reduced the days people come in so that we're just like one person in production, one person in packaging and Shaz and myself, that they don't have to worry too much about giving space and they can actually get on and function and be productive like they would, instead of worrying about, am I like, two meters apart? So how are you finding, then, working with your husband all day and then being at home? Is it working well? Oh, you should ask him, because he's like, she's my boss at work and she's my boss at home. Oh, dear. Yeah. Because we complement each other in so many things. I'm very operation focused and he's quite strategic and, you know, he can do the business planning and stuff and he's good at numbers. So I leave all the numbers bits to him, all the finances and the fundraising and grant applications and stuff, so he handles that. But I know you wanted to ask me about the Family business of the year. I think it'd be one, because that's something I thought you wanted to know. But for me, I never thought it was we were going to win that. I mean, you hope. But Angeline told us she's our digital marketing manager and she was like, something's come up, do you want to go for it? Because I said, yeah, sure, why not? And because Mina, she did a degree in product design and then she's gone into graphic design, so she does all our branding and packaging. Oh, that's good. And then she just got married last year to her high school, well, uni sweetheart. And he's in tech pr, so he does a lot of the PR stuff as well. So if there's a press article that needs to be written and he'll just do that for us, that's really good. It's actually. And of course Ashwood helping us out and stuff. Yeah, that's lovely. So for people listening in, if you want to check out the website, it's www.harryschoks.co.uk Are you on social media as well? Yeah. So it's like the handles are Harry Spectors on Instagram and Facebook. Okay. So we want to find out, but I'd recommend people really do buy some of these chocolates because they're really, really delicious. Now, what I wanted to ask you was obviously we're a show about promoting mental health and well being. What do you do for yourself, for your well being? How do you relax? Now, I can imagine you're a busy lady like myself and it's difficult sometimes to relax, but what do you do? What do you do to be your thing? What is it that you do? Shaz loves cooking, so we just put some music on. So this is our time to relax. He does the cooking and I'm sipping a glass of wine and that's our chill time. I'll be watching movies. I love reading and sometimes I go for. But I'm not really a walk person or an outdoors person, so I can't say as I go for long walks, because that would be a lie. But it's just reading my Kindle. I just want some quiet time where there's nothing. I do a bit of gardening. I love gardening, so I'll do a bit of that. Or just sitting outside and just reading my book. So you're glad you moved over to England then? Oh, God, yes. And I go back now. It's like I need to go back home. As in go back home to England. Yeah. So you think of England as your home now. So just again, just to remind people, if they want to enjoy some of your lovely chocolates, it's www.harryschocks.co.uk. mona's going to be writing an article as well for our charity website. So if you want to check that out, that will be on the charity website this week. So that will be www.annakenakennedyonline.com. if you want to follow me on social media, it's at Anna Anna Kennedy1 on Twitter, Anna Kennedy online on Facebook and Nakena Kennedy OBE on Instagram. To finish off with. What's Ash doing now? So where is he? What's he doing? He goes to West Suffolk College. He's started with Pathway Employment. Now he's doing supported internships. So he'll be officially coming one day a week. Yeah. So that he can get used to the fact this is not a mom and dad thing, this is a work that. Because this is last year at college. The aim is that he'll start working full time with us then once he finishes. Oh, that's lovely. So has he ever created any chocolates of his own? Any tastes of his own? He loves the logo printed ones like the Christmas ones or the, you know, the occasion ones. That's his favorite. But he's more of a computer based guy so he'll go and print orders or he'll do the unmolding and the packaging and then he'll just eat. That's his favorite chocolate. He doesn't eat anything else except for those. So what are you preparing for Christmas then? What can you excite me with that? I need to buy. The first time ever we're doing an Advent calendar. Oh, wow. Because every year we need to do an ad but this time we are. And then you've got like more occasion chocolates coming out as well and new Christmas designs. Yeah. Okay. So you doing anything for Halloween? We do like our Halloween chocolate pops, the scary chocolate pops and we do like fun Halloween shapes as well in bags. Oh, right. You know, you need to do, maybe you need to do a competition. So somebody designs a chocolate for you or a chocolate flavor that open it out to the autism community. Because we've been doing competitions and they've really been welcomed and a lot of families have really looking forward to then our next competition. So we've had three competitions so far and we'll be running another one very soon. Christmas card competition. We do those every year. So we've got three Christmas cards we want to add to the pack now. So keep looking out, everyone, on the charity website to design a Christmas card for us. But obviously we did this life in lockdown and some amazing artwork that's come through 2D, 3D and obviously photography as well. And as I've said, the judges are gonna have such a tough time to choose their winners and their runners up. And then we did a VE Day competition where people sent in posters for VE Day. They were amazing as well. And we did a. Create a cake or a cookie or a brownie, so basically something that represents autism to them. So we had lots of different cakes coming in and different ideas, and that was so lovely. So that might be something that you could do. Maybe you could do a competition for a chocolate or something. So that'll be fun. Yeah, I bet you'd get a lot of entries. And then, yeah, the only thing about the cake competition for us, I couldn't taste them because obviously they didn't send the cake and it was a photograph. Oh, dear. So it's been really. I really love talking to you and I'm so pleased that you've moved over to this country and Ash has settled and, you know, you've got this wonderful company called Harry Spector. Now, I remember where I've heard the name Spectre. I started watching that series on Netflix. Yeah. And it's Harvey Spector, isn't it? Yeah. I was just thinking, where have I heard that name before? The teddy's just dropped now as I've started talking to you. Oh, yeah. I love that program, that series. I should say so. Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for chatting to me and for spending the time. And again, just to remind people, if you want to check out their website, it's www.harryschoks.co.uk on social media as well, it's Harry Spectors on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. So thank you very much, Mona. Take care of yourself, keep doing all these lovely chocolates and keep. Look after yourself and stay strong, stay safe. And I just want to say thank you again. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much. And you take care as well. Thank you. And thank you to everybody for listening in every week. And again, please stay strong, stay safe and keep going one day at a time. Bye.