All Things Autism – Ruth King, Autism and Assistance Dogs

Hello, this is Anna Kennedy and we're talking all things autism and what a busy week it's been for me. Oh my word, I've been here, there and everywhere and I've just come back from Coventry. I've been a judge for six years now for a charity called Zoe's Place. It's a baby hospice in Coventry. It's got nothing to do with autism but it's a wonderful charity and I'm a judge for a dancing competition. So basically it's people that learn how to dance in eight weeks, very much like strictly and they learn with a professional dancer. So they could be people within the community, so they could be a fire officer, they could be the mayor or whoever they've chosen and it's always booked up and it's so well organised. I absolutely love it. So it takes a year for them to plan this event. Eight weeks of training of obviously dancing. They do three shows this time, normally just do two. So I was there on the Saturday, so I was judging the matinee show and I was also judging the evening show. Beautiful costumes, they were all so well turned out and what they do is they do two dancers. So they did the quick step and they did the waltz. So absolutely loved it and of tiring but they've raised £154,000 for Zoe's Place, the baby's hospice. I know there's always a tear or two when one of the parents share their journey on how Zoe's Place really supports the family to give them a little bit of respite. I was also at Downing Street with my team. So as you know, I had my petition. So the petition had about 16 and a half thousand signatures. So thank you to everybody who signed. Obviously worried parents who is going to look after our loved ones when we are no longer around. My husband Sean came and then some of my team. I was also invited to Port Cullis House to meet with Sir Robert Buckland, who I met with in the early years of when my sons had been diagnosed. He has a daughter that's on the autism spectrum and again he worries about who's going to look after his daughter when he's no longer around. And we're just waiting obviously to hear back from the Prime Minister. I did a speech in front of number 10 and it's on the charity website. It's had 12,000 views already in three days, which is amazing. It's been shared all over social media. So if you want to check it out to see exactly what I said outside number 10, please look at the charity website on the latest news page or even page www.annaKennedyonline.com. And as you know, my motto is if you don't try, you'll never know. And if you don't go after what you want, you'll never get it. And if you never ask, the answer will always be no. So you've just got to keep pushing forward. So one more thing that I want to talk about and it's obviously apt because of my guest today. So one of my ambassadors is the lovely Tess Eagle Swan. She has a dog called Kratoo and she's written a book called Incredible Kratoo, the happy-go-luppy rescue dog who changed his owner's life. And it was also a People's Pet Award winner in 2021. She was assisted by Lynn Barrett Lee to write the book. And as you know, Kratoo is a force of nature whose spirit and happiness cannot be contained. He is magic. He is the something right in my life. So Kratoo is Tess's assistance dog. We have some books in the charity office. We've got one, books that were donated to us. So if you'd like to purchase one of the books to help us raise funds for the charity, again, check out the charity shop on www.annaKennedyonline.com. As you know, a lot of charities are really struggling at the moment. Our accounts manager said he looks after 40 small charities, which we are one and a quarter of them have closed, which is really sad. I was also reading on the third sexta charity magazine that the National Autistic Society are now in 5 million. I think it was in deficit because of rising costs. So all very worrying times, but I'm a big advocate for smaller charities because for me, they are the backbone of society and they're always supporting parents best possible way. So my guest today, I'm excited to speak to Ruth King. She's a business development manager for autism dog charity. She's autistic herself and has been the handler of her own autism assistant dog for nearly seven years. As the handler of one of the very first dogs delivered by autism dogs, Ruth has seen the organization grow and develop throughout the years. She started as an ambassador for the charity in 2017 and Ruth's role with autism's dog charity has included contributing to a wider variety of projects. Now, I'm not going to say anymore because I don't want to steal Ruth's thunder. So welcome Ruth. Hello, thank you so much for having me on today. Oh, thank you. So before we talk about dogs, before we talk about autism, who is Ruth? Just give us a little snapshot of who you are for our listeners. Well, in a way, it's quite difficult to introduce myself without also introducing my dog Ryder. So I think I almost see him as being like a part of me in a way because he's with me wherever I go in whatever I do. But I am 27 years old and I live in Plymouth with my husband and Ryder. Apart from my work with the charity, I'm an artist and I do hyper realistic pastel paintings and that's really my main passion that focus around animals and also Christian theology. I like to really merge the two there. My life really is, well, to give kind of a summary of it, I was diagnosed at the age of 17 with autism. I really, really struggled up to that point. And of course, I do continue to struggle with some of those aspects as well of being autistic. But before I had Ryder, I actually found it very, very difficult to speak to other people. In fact, I hadn't spoken at all, even to members of my family for quite a few months at one point. So I was in a very bad place, also suffering from chronic illness as well. So I have mass cell activation syndrome. What is that? Mass cell activation syndrome. So that is basically the mass cells in my body release too much history and that makes me very unwell. And that causes symptoms like passing out and brain fog and very bad problems with my bound and things like that as well. So actually at the age of around 17, I'd actually reached the point where I couldn't eat at all. And so I was in hospital, I was being tube fed and my parents had been told then that I probably wouldn't live to see that Christmas. Oh, that must have been really boring for them and very debilitating for you. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was at that point, you know, my absolute lowest point and what seemed like quite a hopeless situation, which was completely turned around, absolutely completely turned around by the introduction of my assistant still. Wow. Oh, so please. So how, before we talk about ride it, how was school for you then? How did you call? School was very difficult for me. Academically, I did well. Yeah. Socializing, coping with the environment. It was so overwhelming for me. I'm sure that lots of people will be able to relate to that sense of being completely overwhelmed and overloaded. I remember I used to get home from the school day and just want to go straight to bed and actually running from one classroom to another classroom, simply because I couldn't deal with the noises of the playground. Yeah. So yeah, school was very difficult for me. I had to drop out of my final year of A levels as well, just because of the health issues that I was experiencing at the time. So what were you interested in at school? Was it art all the time or did that come a little bit later on down the line? Well, surprisingly, art really wasn't my focus at school. I did a little bit of art at GCSE and found that I really just didn't like being told what to do. And I didn't like imitating other people's work and I liked to do some, I liked to do very, very detailed paintings, which wasn't always, wasn't always appreciated because I could spend months on one piece and of course they would expect you to do quite a lot of work. So yeah, my main focus was really philosophy and ethics and literature, but I have a real passion for philosophy and theology. Okay. So with reference to your art, do you sell your art pieces? Because I was just thinking, obviously you're writing a piece for the charity website. So if you want to put the link with reference to your artwork, because I didn't know that about you and I'd love to see it. If you'd like to put the link on the charity website, you might have some people that are interested if you actually sell your pieces. Oh, that would be amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I do sell my pieces. I work under the name R Victor King and I sometimes have originals for sale, but often have prints for sale as well. Okay. All right. If you put your link on the charity website, just to remind people, that's www.annaKennedyonline.com. You can check out the link and see Ruth's work and I'm excited to see it as well. So let's talk a little bit about, first of all, Ryder, what kind of a dog is Ryder? Ryder is a springer door, so he's half Labrador, half English springer spaniel. Okay. And yeah, he kind of looks like a Labrador that stopped growing at about 10 months old. He's very big ears and often gets mistaken for a puppy. He's eight years old now, but yeah, he could easily be eight months old with the way he looks and his general bounciness. Oh, lovely. So what is autism's dog charity? Tell me a little bit about that. How did it start and what's the mission? Well, it started in 2016 actually, originally called therapy animal CIC. So originally working providing different therapy animals. The first litter of dogs that was bred for the program was actually Ryder's litter and a few dogs out of that made it to the assistance dogs in the end. It was founded by Andrew and Caroline Preston and they're an absolutely amazing couple, extremely qualified, extremely dedicated. Andrew is one of only four Kennel Club assured instructors for assistance dogs in the UK. Also awarded the 2019 dog trainer, dog training instructor of the year awards at Crafts 2020. So a very, very qualified dog behaviorist. And Caroline, CEO, is a qualified member of the International Alliance of Holistic Therapists, International Association of Neurolinguistic Programming and Coaching. She's qualified in autism awareness and animal assistant therapy as well. Okay. So they started the program out of their home and out of the kindness of their heart really. And since then it's grown to work with assistance dogs. It's grown to be accredited by Assistance Dogs International. And now we're one of the most recognized organizations in the UK providing autism assistance dogs. What makes a good assistance dog? So how do you know? Is it something that can be taught or is it something that you think, yeah, that it's going to work with that dog? How does it work? Well, dogs are primarily selective for their temperament. So what we look for is a dog that's very, firstly, very gentle, very loyal and willing to engage in the training, has a very positive attitude towards learning new things, so very intelligent. We look for dogs that will be able to cope with perhaps some of the movements and noises that an autistic person might be expressing. So a dog that won't be easily phased by that, a dog that's confident in public places. And really, we're looking for strong personalities, a very happy dog. They often have very strong characters and yeah, they're very, very special. That's generally what we look for in a dog. But I would say that primarily, we're looking at that temperament, that very balanced, gentle temperament. Okay. And what about breed? Is that important? It can be to some extent. Part of the way that our program is structured, because it's a completely bespoke program, is that we look at the needs and preferences of the individual as well, when we're assessing the suitability of the dog. So we tend to work with most of the dogs at Labradors, but we also work with Spaniels, Italian Spenoni, Poodles, and all sorts of other mixtures. Pointers. What we look for is a dog that fulfills those criteria, but also we look at the preferences of the hander. So if somebody perhaps has certain allergies, we might look for a dog with more hypoallergenic fur, or if somebody has a certain sensory preference as well. So there might be somebody who maybe would struggle with wiry hair, or would struggle with shorter long hair, something like that, and we can work around that. Yeah, it's something that I think is a real strength of the program actually, is looking at some of the things that perhaps we wouldn't have thought of, and perhaps the people applying also wouldn't have really thought of. The little bits about caring for a dog and interacting with a dog, we want to make sure that that's a positive experience, and that it provides positive sensory feedback. Yeah, so what age is it best to train an assistance dog, and what age, say for example, if a parent wanted an assistance dog for their child, what's the best age for the dog, and what's the best age for the individual child? Right, well it does vary a little bit, both for the dogs and for the people. For the dogs, at the moment that they're placed, we wouldn't place them before they were about one and a half years old. Right. And around that age there would be some variation, and at the upper limit probably before they were around three. So that tends to be our general kind of age range that we place the dogs. For people, it's a bit looser because we don't actually have an upper age limit. Right. And I would say that the majority of the dogs are placed with either children who are above the age of six or seven-ish upwards, lots of young people, so teenagers, young adults, lots of that kind of age range really. There are quite a few charities that only provide assistance dogs for children, perhaps under the age of 12, but we don't have that kind of aging on our program. Okay. And how long does it take to train a dog to be ready? Well, it takes several months of quite intense training. So we start off with the basic training. So that's just general obedience, general assessment of their temperament. We then move on to things like public access. So, of course, the dogs have to be, they have to have this kind of advanced socialization, going to places like train stations, hospitals, supermarkets, even places like concerts and things like that. If that is the kind of environment that our dog will be placed in at any point, we have to make sure they're ready for that. We also have a more advanced phase of the program, which again, takes several months. And that's where we work through a set of tasks that they will be trained to help that individual autistic person. And the amount of time that that take can really vary based on what that list includes. Okay. So with the training, obviously, they're trained with the handlers, but then when they're passed over to the young person or the adult, or whoever it may be, obviously, they'll have their own ways of doing things or their own challenges. So just how long does the actual trainers work with the child or the adult to make sure that the dogs are right fit? Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. And well, initially, when we first introduced the dog and the handler, they'll initially have a play date. But following that, we actually do family training at the farm. So that's where the whole family, we encourage the whole family to go to the base, which is a farm in Cheshire. And we actually provide instruction and information on a number of topics to try and make sure that that's a success when we're sort of transferring those handling skills over. So they'll go through things like understanding canine body language, and the practical requirements of handling that dog, and also how to remain consistent as well with that handling so that when the dog is passed over, they'll be able to understand what's wanted of them really, and that they'll fit into that routine. We also make sure that they really have that support network around them, because you know, the new routine and the new demands of having an assistance dog is quite demanding on a person and on a family. Throughout that process, we also have our own dedicated psychotherapy and mental health support, which we provide, because we recognize what a big change that is in people's lives. And they need some help with that transition. So that provides a personised approach as well. But once the dog is delivered, the trainers will actually settle the dog into the home. And yeah, so they'll visit some of these outside spaces. So they'll go with the family to a park, so that they're not doing that by themselves. Yeah, wondering about them. Yeah. And they'll also go to perhaps certain shops or even places like churches. If that's somewhere where that family would like to take their dog, then they'll go there with them so they've done it with somebody else in their own environment. Yeah. Yes. And following that, we actually have follow-up phone calls. We have a delivery panel, which involves other handlers who've been through the process. Right. And we also have aftercare support clinics at the farm as well. So if somebody months down the line or even years down the line, would just like to reconnect in person at the farm and bring the dog to the farm and go through some of those key handling skills again, then they're very welcome to do that as well at any point in their journey. I think that's so important after support because things can change or even like your circumstances can change or where you live can change, moving out. There's just so many things that are constantly changing. So I think that's really important. So I was going to ask you what makes awesome assistance dog so special, but I still will. But obviously you've shared quite a bit with why it makes it so special because you obviously go through the whole journey with the family and then the aftercare, which I think is really important. So is there anything else that you want to share why it makes, why autism assistance dog is so special to you and also to family and also what kind of tasks can you train a dog to do? And I've always wondered as well, and I'm asking you too many things now, I've got so many things going on in my head. I've seen before where sometimes dogs can pick up because obviously, as you know, autism and epilepsy can go hand in hand, but they can pick up before a person is sort of about to have a, you know, an epileptic fit. How does that work? Yeah, well, they are incredible animals. They really, really are their intuition and their ability to detect and to kind of identify patterns as well. So they're able to identify very, very small changes in things like the way that we smell, the way that we move, all of those things. And they're things that we're just not aware of as well. When it comes to things like anxiety as well, the dogs really do watch and they can pick up on certain very subtle changes in our behavior. One of the things that I think is quite interesting is actually how we kind of explain the difference between an autism assistance dog and an autism therapy dog, because although, of course, they both have very, very important roles, there is that real difference between a dog that is there for somebody providing companionship and support and a dog that is, like you're saying, performing these tasks to quite a high level. So, you know, if we're talking about therapy dogs, we're talking about somebody who's getting the sensory feedback, which is very calming, very calming. There's that biophysical impact there that can be very helpful, especially in places like schools or hospitals or care home settings. So our dogs at Autism Dogs Charity are trained to actively mitigate certain difficulties. So they're trained to perform at least three separate tasks and each skill set, each individual dog will be completely unique and adapted to fit the individual experiences of the person they support. So I would say that the tasks fit into three main categories, really, and some sort of cover both. Firstly, it's distraction, so distracting from things perhaps like self-injurious behaviors, intervention, direct intervention if someone's experiencing a meltdown, and also regulation, so sensory regulation through tasks such as deep pressure therapy. So there are so, so many different tasks that they could perform, but to give a little snapshot perhaps, if we would have a child who is severely self-harming during meltdowns, the dog would not just be a calming presence, that dog would be trained to actively intervene by perhaps nudging to push the hands away from the face or something like that. They can, they can distract and redirect by bringing another item, and they can intervene at earlier signs of distress as well. So some other examples are things like medication reminders, the dogs can be trained to hear an alarm and understand that that's a certain, that's, that means that that person needs to go and take the medication. They can then go alert and alert that person or perhaps even take the item to that person, which helps to prevent misdosis. They can also do things like wake somebody up in the morning, they can help with dressing and undressing, open and closing doors. So there's all sorts of different ways that the dogs can help, not just with the traits associated with autism, but also with any co-morbid conditions as well. So we really look at the whole person and look at what could help them in their individual situation. Okay, so what I wanted to ask you was that I've heard throughout the years, and this was like a few years ago, that sometimes obviously people pay an awful lot of money for a dog, and I understand why because of all the training and everything that's involved, but sometimes parents can get conned and lose money. How do you know when it's a good charity, and if you like it's what it says on the tin and it's not dodgy and they run off with your money? Yeah, it's such an, well, it's so unfortunate, it's so, so sad that we're seeing this, and unfortunately it is a bit of a minefield. The things that I would really look for, and I would really advise, is to look for an organisation that's accredited with Assistance Dogs International. So if an organisation is a member of ADI, it means that they're very high standards of dog training and care, as well as client care as well. It also means that they're sharing best practice with other organisations and that they have a real knowledge of the industry. So the actual criteria to become a member of ADI is very strict. So if an organisation is a member of ADI, that's a really, really good sign. In the UK, you will usually find that a member of ADI is also a part of Assistance Dogs UK and that's a group of non-profit organisations and we all work together to help share information about Assistance Dogs training and welfare and help to maintain that standard. So if you were looking for a dog and you're looking at either getting one from us or from another charity or organisation that provides one, I would encourage people to look at the AD UK website, have a look at the members list and also the candidate members and have a look there. It's a great place to start. Okay, and is there a long waiting list for dogs? Well, it really does depend on the organisation. Often the waiting lists are absolutely full and completely closed. The way that we tend to do it, we like to avoid these really, really long waiting lists. So we open our waiting lists a couple of times a year and we take in all of the applications and consider all of them and then we place as many dogs as we can. Unfortunately, we can't place very many dogs at a time due to limited resources. So the best way really to apply for one of our dogs would be to sign up to our mailing list and as soon as that application then opens, as soon as that waiting list opens, you can then make an application and we will then consider your application at that time. So where can people find the website address? Do you have it to hand? Yes, so it's www.autismdogs.co.uk. Oh, quite simple. And where do you get all the dogs from? Do you go to a breeder? How does it work? Well, we actually breed a lot of the dogs on site. So Andrew Preston is also a casey assured breeder of more than 10 years. So some of the dogs are bred on site. Some of them were sourced elsewhere and temperament tested. Okay, so I'd like to know, when you were 17, was it that when you, is that rider coming to your life then? Was that when it was? I actually got rider when I was, I just turned 21. So that was in 2017. So yeah, I was diagnosed with autism when I was 17. And actually, it was after that that I became very, very ill. Yeah. And really, the way that that worked for me was that my parents had reached a state of total desperation, to be honest. And I think that that's the position that we often see people coming from that position of complete desperation, not knowing where else to turn. And because, you know, I was at that point, I was severely underweight from not being able to eat and in a sense, not really having much motivation to carry on, which sounds really, really sad, but that was the position I was in. I could barely talk to people. I wasn't able to go out, really. The only real life in my life at that point was our family pet dog Wellington. Right. When I was around him, I felt a bit better. And I always just felt like I could connect to him better than I could to people. There's something so amazing about dogs, the way that they don't judge us, the way that they don't see any of the difficulties we have as being a negative. They only see the positive in us. And I found him such a great, great source of comfort. But my parents actually found out about what was then therapy animal CIC and contacted the Preston's and said, you know, this is the situation that I was in. And could they help me? And well, what followed that was well, completely transformative, to be honest. I went from being almost unable to speak to people at all from actually the from the first few days of having Ryder. I was starting to have conversations with people about him because he switched something in your head that can you can you can you share that with us? Or don't you know, does it just come naturally? Sorry. Of course, it's I think that the way I would describe it is that I feel like I'm speaking through him. Right. So and I'd still do that. In fact, even as I'm speaking to you now, I'm looking at him. He's right next to me and I'm looking at him. I when I'm speaking about him, I found that a little bit easier. As well, I find that I can I can get those things out. But it's like everything gets filtered through him. Right. So all of my experiences are filtered through Ryder. I look to him and I see how is he doing? If ride is happy, that makes me feel a bit more settled. If Ryder goes up and greets a person, I feel that I'm more able to greet them. And also people respond to him differently as well. So having somebody have a conversation with me, perhaps I'm talking to somebody face to face, I can then look at Ryder rather than provide that direct eye contact and it would still be socially acceptable to do so. So I can look to Ryder and kind of speak through him that way. If somebody asks me a question, I might sometimes also respond from Ryder's perspective. So somebody would say something like, how are you feeling today? I might say, well, Ryder's feeling really happy. This is what Ryder did today. And that kind of helps me to feel a little bit less pressured really when I'm speaking to other people. But of course, he also provided right from the beginning that direct support to me, which helped me in all areas of my life as well. So it helped with my general confidence. When I first got Ryder, I was actually having daily meltdowns, which were really quite severe. Something that I do when I'm very distressed, just naturally really, is that I tend to want to hit my head on things, which of course is not good because that can cause injury. But Ryder was trained to intervene to prevent that and to redirect that so that I had something else to provide that kind of sensory input. What does he do to stop you? Because my son Angelo, he has what I would call maybe sensory overloads. And it gets to such a state where they last such a long time. And I worry about him on how hard he hits himself. And when he was younger, obviously, I could try and stop him from hitting his head because I was worried that he was going to hurt himself. But now he's a 30 year old man, you know, and I'm just a small five foot two woman. Anymore. And it's just like, I wish I could help him stop doing that. So how does Ryder stop you? Well, as soon as he sees that I'm starting to show signs of that real distress. So for me, I would often curl up in a ball on the floor. That would be my first sign of getting to that point. And Ryder would come up underneath me and actually nuzzle my face. And if my if I started to push my hands against my head or to hit my head, he would push my hands away from my head quite forcefully with his nose or his paw and bury his head in me so that I was getting that sensory sensory input from him. He's also trained to lay right across my body so that he he provides deep pressure therapy to me. So really, it's replacing that, that kind of sensory input that I'm getting from, from hitting and scratching and rubbing myself, all of those things to try and get that kind of calming sensory input. He's then providing it. And I would say that actually, even after a few days of understanding and really recognizing that he was there and ready to provide that support, I found I wasn't really getting to that stage quite so much. Because I would know that Ryder would be there. And actually, he would often intervene before I even got to that point. So as soon as I start to, sometimes I barely even notice that I'm anxious. He is so in tune with me. As soon as he notices, you know, like, he just sounds he's so amazing. And he's worth it. He's incredible. In fact, I sometimes think that he barely sounds like a real dog. It almost sounds like the kind of story you'd see in a film or read about a book, because the transformation is so incredible. I mean, even the fact that I'm speaking to you like this now I'm able to hold that conversation, all of that comes from Ryder. Yeah. And that's because in the beginning, I also had to learn how to talk to Ryder. So I had to learn to speak in a way that he would understand. I had to learn to use that tone of voice. Ask you about that. Just saying, do you have to speak to them in a certain way? Or can you just speak to them as you would be speaking to me? Well, all of the dogs are taught with verbal commands and also with hand signals, which is really, really valuable, of course, for people who aren't verbal. Yeah. So they respond to hand signals too. So especially when I was really learning how to handle Ryder, I would use both. I would use that verbal and the visual hand signal to ask him for something. Right. Really, the dogs, they like consistency. They like it when people speak to them in the same way or give commands in the same way so that they can really recognise that tone of voice and understand what you want from them. So that is a skill that we all have to develop really. But learning that skill has real positives on other areas of life. And that's something that I'm always discovering new things about the impact that these dogs have because it is so broad and so incredible. It really does surpass expectations because it starts off with somebody like me who is struggling to make themselves heard. I have footage of myself from when I first got Ryder and the dog came to me because I couldn't get my voice sort of loud enough. And that came to me actually developing a real understanding of how to handle a dog and how they pick up on certain tones of voice and how they pick up on our movements. That then helped me to understand how other people were perceiving me as well. So it's helped me to develop some social skills really, just from interacting with my dog in that way. Yeah, because the thing is I was thinking like, say for example, someone like my son Angelo has got minimal verbal skills. I was just thinking how how would the dog sort of obviously he's got his is very much echolalic or also to the point of when he wants something. So like I want cake, I want drink, I want sandwich, you know, I want car, all those sort of things, but not like a proper conversation. So just be thinking how would that work with someone like Ryder or an assistance dog? We do have a dog. We did have a dog for quite some time. Chanel, she was lovely, but she just knew she was an assistance dog, but she knew when to go near Angelo, when to not or when he was a bit stressed, she would just lie on his feet and he would allow that. He doesn't like it when they bark. So now we have a new dog. It's been two years now. She's Jack Russell. And yes, but they just seem to know instinctively because Angelo has high pitched squealing, jumping up and down, that sort of thing. But again, just communicates his needs. But it's just when he does this, you know, he can see the sensory overload. He's just so stressed. I wish I could find out what the triggers are because when they're nonverbal, it's just so hard to find out. It's just a bit of a guessing game. Yeah, so difficult. So I'm just thinking, how would a dog like Ryder or an assistance dog be able to assist someone like my son, who's like a 30 year old man? You know, that's pretty much nonverbal, but just communicates his needs. You can't have a conversation with him, unless it's via a computer screen. Yeah, so so partly, a lot of a lot of the time, if somebody is perhaps has certain challenges, the parent will often be the main handler of the dog. So they will be there and able to give certain commands and instructions to the dog and handle them perhaps in public places. So that's part of the reason, of course, as well, why we do like to involve the whole family. And throughout the assessment process, we really think about how to work on a practical level within that individual family as well. We also, at being a bespoke program, we have this quite unique ability, really, to adapt everything to suit that family and to suit that individual situation. So, for example, if somebody perhaps would struggle to reward their dog, we might suggest that we start working with a clicker, instead of just purely with verbal commands as well, so we can adapt it in that way. We also place quite a big emphasis as well on developing a routine that that family can maintain when it comes to things like caring for the dog, to make sure that the dog still sees the autistic person as being the main person, you know, the real apple of their eye, but the family is there to provide that extra support and to make sure that everything is going smoothly and that the dog needs them as well. Okay, so what about the diet for the dog? What type of foods does this, is it pretty much the same as any dog, or do you have to give them specific foods? Yes, well, of course, every dog needs this, needs to have really, really good nutrition, but it's even more important, I would say, for an assistance dog, where it's important that they have that focus and that their health is really kept, it's kept really good, because of course, if that dog becomes unwell, then that person doesn't have that support available to them. Yeah, so Andrew, of course, one of the directors and founders of the charity has actually developed his own brand of dog food, so he's incredibly knowledgeable and incredibly dedicated to ensuring that the dogs have the best of everything really, and so that's called Canine Assist, and that's available to anybody as well, if anybody would like to learn more about that dog food brand, that's also available for anybody to order for their own dog as well, but generally, Canine Assist. Canine Assist, yes, so the dogs are fed a grain-free diet at the farm, right, it's very balanced, a diet that's specifically developed to help maintain the condition of working dogs. Yeah, it's fantastic, of course, when the dogs are delivered to the person, they've got no obligation to keep them on a specific diet, but that's what we recommend, and it's what we feed the dogs at the farm. Okay, and do you have to go to a specialised vet, or can any vet do? No, no, any vet, we actually also, of course, have our own vet that's part of the charity that helps us, so as a member of our own team, we actually have Andrew and Caroline's daughter Tate Preston, who is one of the directors as well, and she's also a qualified, very highly qualified vet. Oh, they're really invested in this, aren't they? Oh yeah, oh yeah, an incredible team of people, you know, the other thing that I've just realised I haven't mentioned yet, but I think is, you know, a fantastic part of the charity is the fact that so many of the members of our team are actually autistic themselves, so our CEO, Caroline is autistic, our general manager is autistic, I'm autistic, we have autistic people through every level really of the company, and that means that we really do understand, we understand where people are coming from, we understand what it means to be autistic, we understand also some of the, perhaps some of the small things, so it's like if somebody were to ask us about feeding their dog, we would understand that perhaps they might have sensory sensitivities, we might be able to come up with a way that they could feed their dog without touching the dog food itself and things like that, so there are very, very small things that perhaps wouldn't be thought of unless you either lived with someone who's autistic or autistic yourself. Okay, do they have any books that are out that people might be able to read or haven't you thought of that part of it yet? Well we don't have a book but we do actually have a magazine, so it's called Superpower Magazine and that's available on our website and that all of the stories in there are actually written by our clients, so it's either autistic people or their families and they've submitted contributions to that and it's talking about their stories and it's a chance for them to talk about things that are important to them and also share things like creations that they've made, so photography, art and things like that, we really want to encourage I suppose the whole of the person, it's not just about the dog, it's about building up a support network for that whole person in every aspect of their life. Okay, so if you put that link as well on the article that you're writing for us for the charity website, so as much information that you can think of that can help people, so the other thing I wanted to ask, so obviously it's quite expensive to buy a dog, so if somebody hasn't got the funding all at once can they pay via increments or how does that work? Yeah so we do, all of our clients will pay by instalments but they're set instalments, one of the things that really it honestly grieves us, we want to be able to offer this program for free, we desperately want to be able to and that's our goal, to reduce or completely eliminate the cost. The reality is that the cost to us as an organisation to train that dog and to care for that dog and provide the support that we provide is about £22,000 per dog, so that's the cost of the charity, I know it's hugely costly. I actually thought between eight and ten thousand for some reason, I had that figure back, that was a few years ago. Yeah but the cost to the person, so if you were applying for one of our dogs the cost would be considerably less than that. The way that we get to that is by people volunteering for us and providing financial support to the charity through donations and also members of our own team actually volunteering certain hours to try and help to keep that cost down but it's something that we are really really keen on when it comes to things like fundraising. Our ultimate goal is to completely eliminate that cost and we're always working towards that because we understand that it's not as accessible as we would like it to be, we feel that nobody should have to pay for these services but as it is we want these services to be out there and yeah it's an incredible support and I would hope that as knowledge and understanding of autism dogs grows that more people will donate perhaps either gift in their will or find another way to support us so that we can provide those dogs that are reduced cost or for free. Okay um I was going to ask you um with Chatter's at the beginning that you were married how how is your partner with the dog um and does the how can I say does the dog get jealous of your part? As soon as my husband comes to sit next to me gives me a hug or something she you can just see this it's the look she doesn't really do anything it's just almost like because she's very much into me. Yeah well um well firstly thankfully he loves dogs and I don't think we could do together if he didn't um it's um well in the beginning Ryder really wasn't sure um because of course these dogs have um such a strong bond with that handler as well and welcoming someone else into the family is quite a big thing for him but they've become the best of friends they really have and um Ryder on on my wedding day you know even there Ryder was the one making that possible really Ryder walked ahead of me down the aisle and um he actually was uh was sat then in the aisle so that I could see him throughout the entire thing um so that's another factor of these dogs really they can help with things from from just going outside of the house um to going to school going to work to getting married so it can be small what seems like small things of course for some people are big things for other people but it can be that everyday thing or it can be this absolutely life-changing event and these dogs will be part of it make it possible for that person. Yeah I always say to people that even when we were I used to be based in the school many moons ago that like some real successors that we celebrate to other people it's just like well why why is everyone getting so excited but it's like for us and the teachers and the individual and the families and everyone like it just might be something so small but it's huge to that child it's huge to the family huge to the classroom you know that's just sometimes people don't get it and as I always say you know if you don't have a a child but who's got um special educational needs always autistic um you know you want you you can sort of try and understand but you don't really yeah absolutely um absolutely I wanted to ask you because this is a woman's radio is always promoting well-being mental health so what do you do to relax um so what is it that helps you recharge your batteries um well my really the thing that really helps me to calm down is actually being outside so just going for a walk um going for a walk of course with my dog and being around dogs I find really really helps me to relax um and also I find that just doing my painting and and getting involved with some with some art really helps me as well focusing on those small details can help to drown out um some of the worries in life okay talk to me about your paintings you haven't really touched upon that that much so I'm interested in when did you just discover that you could actually paint and when did you when you sold your very first piece how did you feel oh so um I think that I started I first started um getting quite serious about drawing and uh wanting to work um I was supposed to really push the boundary of what I could achieve when it came to to uh creating realistic pieces when I first started doing that was when I was at school and the reason I did that was because I wasn't coping in class so you see all of these things are quite interlinked really um I wasn't coping in class I wasn't coping with the the hustle and bustle really of everything that was going on around me so I used to finish my work for for that class and then just sit there and I would draw and I would always draw the same thing because I wanted to um I was determined to be able to I remember draw a realistic eye um but it was always animal lines because I was always obsessed with animals but I always draw eyes at school all the time when I was doing I just always drew an eye with just one with eyelashes yes um it was just it just helped me relax for some reason yeah and I find that um it is so relaxing and also so rewarding as well because over over the years I then started to realize that um that I could push the boundaries really of what I could achieve when it came to realism I could include those small details and then I started to move over to using color as well um so my first the my first sort of proper piece if that makes sense the one that I was first willing to share was probably in about 2018 um and since then I I started to take it a bit more seriously really but it was actually um funnily funnily enough it was actually the team of autism dogs that pushed me and gave me that push I needed to actually put my work out there um because you know like I said that being involved with the whole person really appreciating the whole person um they told me that that they believed in me really and they said that I should put my work out there and uh and I listened to them and I did it and I'm so glad I did oh so um what what what do you prefer to paint to paint well my favorite my absolute favorite subject are is uh lions um but I do I do love painting big cats um I also do some pet portraits as well so it's always animals it's usually big cats um or dogs but I also um often incorporate um sort of my interest in Christian theology as well so I write poems to go along with certain paintings and I tend to post them together and in a sense it's one artistic piece with the painting and the poem put together um and that's what I like to do and I suppose in that sense it can be it's slightly unique perhaps um I did a series of paintings which were all focused on the passion narrative from the gospels but I only use pictures of animals never of people right just because perhaps part of that comes from um feeling that I can connect with animals a little bit easier and express emotions through animals and uh for me that was how I felt I could capture the way that it made me feel okay sounds interesting so um if I gave you a magic wand what would you like what could you see yourself doing in five or ten years time oh well um I would love for I would love for my art to be um to be a bigger part of my life for one thing but I'd also love to see um to see the charity growing and to be more involved with the charity and to see more people being helped by the charity um and that's you know that has become such a huge part of my life um because I I did and I still feel that I struggled so much before I had Ryder I still sometimes think if only I'd had Ryder sooner perhaps life wouldn't have got as difficult as it did um but I take so much comfort and I find so reassuring to see other people's lives changing as a result of these dogs and to have the privilege to be just a small part of that is incredible and that's what I would love to see more of I'd love to see more of these amazing stories and hearing about more lives being changed okay so um yeah so just to remind people again if they're interested to check out um where they can find out more about this lovely charity autism dogs charity where can they find it at www.autismdogs.co.uk and we're also on facebook and instagram and tiktok uh at autism dogs okay and your website with reference to selling your artwork where can they find that I'm on instagram and facebook at the moment and that's at our victor king art okay so we'll be checking that out so as you know people send in books I just wanted to um promote this particular book which I have before because I think it's very good so it's autism for adults an approachable guide to living excellently on the spectrum by Daniel M Jones the ultimate handbook for success on the spectrum written by the creator of the aspie world the uk largest channel for autism education so autistic influencer educator and advocate Daniel Jones is an expert on living well on the spectrum he's here to explain everything he's learned and then some in this instruction manual and memoir about life as an autistic person Dan's book is packed with actionable advice that you can immediately start putting into practice you learn how to navigate common challenges such as dating on the spectrum holding down a job or performing well in your studies best of all you learn to improve your life skills while also empowering yourself so if you're interested in the book it's called autism for adults written by Daniel M Jones follow him on youtube and on facebook his posts are always popping up and the book is £14.99 available from hayhouseco.uk we've still got a couple of minutes I just touched about autism and dating how was that for you um well I actually the thing that made it a little bit easier for me is the fact my husband's actually autistic um so we knew each other from primary school so I think he was he was aware of some of the things that I found difficult and also some of the things that perhaps other people would find maybe a little bit strange one of those being the fact that I just talked about dogs all the time um and actually our first dates were walking our dogs together um he got a dog as well yes so he had a family dog and um and the dogs got to know each other as we got to know each other better as well so again even that was was through rider as well oh so did you so you knew each other in primary school so did you stay in contact in secondary school and um right up to obviously when you were 17 you were diagnosed or did you sort of just pick up afterwards no we actually um we didn't speak at all all throughout secondary school and um I think it was yeah it was only um we just rediscovered each other on Facebook and thought oh just connect say hello and we never stopped talking after that so um yeah it was it was quite a lovely story really oh I hope that happens for my son Patrick who killed me now for saying that out loud um yeah so yeah he's into paleontology but he said there's not young ladies out there into paleontology my son would love to chat to you um yeah so he's doing really well he's at uh primary studios has been there for five years and they've got their Christmas do this week and they had their Christmas party but he's just not into parties he just finds them too overwhelming and I sort of get that because the thing is when you do go to these parties you can't really chat properly can you just have to shout at each other and I just get a headache so I totally get where he's coming from with that so again um if you're listening in and you want to be a guest on women's radio station talking all things autism to me please contact me either via women's radio station or you can contact me via the charity website just to remind you it's www.anna kennedy online.com we constantly update in the charity with the latest news that's Lauren um who looks after the charity website and if you want to enter autism's got talent it's that time again I can't believe we've been doing it for 13 years now uh please send in your entries so singers dancers musicians magicians whether you play the acoustic electric guitar you're a band you're a duo whatever it is we want to see your talent please send it in to the charity website and the closing date you've got plenty of time is the end of may we've booked the theatre already at the mermaid theatre it's always the same theatre because it works really well for us so if you're interested please show us your talent and as I say if you want to be a guest whether you're a carer a parent a professional if you want to chat to me for an hour as Ruth has been doing so well um please please do send in um a short bio and a photograph and 10 questions you would like me to ask you and I always try to make sure that I get all the questions in for you and then um it's pre-recorded and then it goes out live the following week and then the week after that it becomes a podcast so you can share it with whoever you like so just to remind you um if you want to follow me on social media it's at anna kennedy on one on twitter anna kennedy online on facebook at anna kennedy oba on instagram and anna kennedy on threads yeah I'm getting used to threads now all these social media things and also please be kind there's so many negative things that are going on on social media at the moment it's not healthy a lot of positive stuff but also a lot of negative stuff I know we're living in an uncertain world but please everyone take care of yourself look after each other one day at a time and thank you so much Ruth for taking the time out thank you thank you lots of love to rider and to your partner and yeah keep doing what you're doing sounds absolutely amazing thank you so much for having me thank you bye everyone take care