Eat Love Do – Liam Browne, Stone Cold Sober Festivals And Enlightenment Through Cacao Ceremony

Hello and welcome. This is the Eat Love do show exclusive to women's radio station. I am Janine Newbery and I've got a fab guest on for you this week. I've got the lovely Liam Brown. He is the founder of Full Power Cacao, co founder of Stone Cold Sober Festival. Yeah, you heard that right. Stone Cold Sober Festival. A festival that you can have fun at without drinking. Interested? Well, listen up because you're going to learn a lot this week. He's also written a book dealer to healer. He holds cacao ceremonies and actually teaches people how to hold their own as well. He's a fantastic guy inside and out. He's healed his whole his own life and he's now set on a mission to heal others. He's got quite an amazing story to share so I think you're going to love this week's show. Before I bring him on, remember to hit up on our socials, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, Men's Radio Stn. And remember to like and subscribe on our YouTube channel because it really helps us and we love it when you support the show. That being said, let's crack on. Liam, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Darling, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. I'm good to see you. I saw you. I know I saw you about a week ago, but it was nice to see you again. You did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're on a tour at the minute, aren't you, with your cacao ceremonies around the uk? Yeah, every March we do. Well, not every March, the last two. We're going to do it every March from now on. We go around the the country doing cacao ceremonies. Yeah, Big healing, kick out ceremonies, educating people about the benefits of cacao and then getting them to, you know, release the stuff that's not serving them through a shamanic cacao ceremony. And like, you know that forceful energy that we use that you witnessed the other day to really get people shifting and stepping into their light and their power and their magnificence. Really brilliant. So for anyone listening, do you want to just share what cacao is and what cacao ceremony is? So cacao is where all chocolate comes from. Yeah. But in its purest, in its purest form, it is a superfood and it is a plant medicine. It's a healing plant medicine. So basically me, me calling cacao chocolate would be like me taking your fingernail off you and identify buying as you because it's a totally different product. It's it's chocolate that you find in the supermarkets missing 99 of the active ingredients. It's sink a cow. Even a decent bar of chocolate in the Supermarket is missing 80 of the active ingredients and compounds that make it a superfood, that make it this natural antidepressant, this. It's amazing for cognition, it's amazing for our heart. It's full of fiber, it's full of protein, it's full of fats. So instantly when you get chocolate manufactured it, these are, these cacao gets split into a, into your cacao butters, your cac fat and your cacao powder which goes into confectionery industry. So instantly you've lost 50 of its active ingredients. And then, you know, people go, oh, but what about this, this chocolate? And this chocolate is all. Cacao is different. There's different strains of it. So most chocolate that is used in the confectionery industry comes from Africa which is not indigenous to. It's farmed massively. The people aren't respected and looked after. They that grow the cacao and it's not a great quality cacao, whereas ours is a ceremonial grade and full power cacao comes from Venezuela, comes from the Solda Lago region which is where the mythical GRE cacao was first found. The first ever cacao that existed on earth. And then there's like these strains of the criollo which is all the ceremonial grade cacaos of the criollo porcelaina. Then you've got the forastero. So it's these blends that are, you know, which shamans would use in ceremony as a plant medicine ceremony, as a healing ceremony. But it was, you know, it was used all over Central and South America by, by the ruling parties really. It was almost used like champagne by the aristocrats and the rulers and then the peasants would drink it at you know, weddings or festivals, celebrations, that kind of thing. Wow. It's incredible. It's good to know that because we, we've read a lot over the last years that chocolate, we heard that, you know, people write in magazines and articles that chocolate is actually good for us, it's an antioxidant. But when you explain it like that and you explain that when they actually make the chocolate that you see on the shelves, like the milk chocolates, that 50 or more of that is gone, then we're not actually getting any of those antioxidants and benefits. No, because those, yeah, those, those studies that they do, they do it on ceremonial grade cacao and then people get the idea that that's dark chocolate, which is not. As soon as it's called chocolate, it's called dark chocolate. It's missing 80% at least of the active ingredients. That's in cacao. So it's kind of a bit of a. Oh, I mean, dark chocolate. I think it's good for me. It's not a superfood. There's no dark chocolate in your supermarket. That is a superfood. Yeah. That's good to know. Is it? And also the difference between cocoa and cacao as well, because. Yeah. So cocoa is a mispronunciation of the word cacao from 200 years ago. So some English person probably just went over. No, people tell me it's called cow, cow kaku. And I'm like, it's cacao. Cacao, yeah, cacao. It's not cow, cow or kaku, it's cacao. So it's just a mispronunciation. But that word, the coco word or kakawa, those words have kind of stuck from mispronunciations, but they're actually. It shouldn't be used as cacao anyways. It can say it derived from a certain strain of cacao. You know, it's like people say to me, oh, they come to the ceremony and they taste my cacao and they're like, wow, that was incredible. I've always, I've had it before and it's tasted awful and you know, this and that. And I'm like, yeah, but that's like going to, you know, Sally's greasy spoon cafe and having a cup of coffee and then going to an artisan coffee place and having a cup of coffee. But after, after you've been to Sally's greasy spoon, you're like, I don't like coffee. I don't like it. You know what I mean? It's because you've had crap coffee. Yeah. So it's like, well, same with cacao. These different levels, there's different qualities, there's different strains. And most importantly, I could basically make a lot of bad tasting cacaos taste good. A lot of people just don't know how to make it taste good. Yeah. So it's like we, we, we serve it in a salted caramel flavor. And because that hits people's best taste buds, a little bit of sweet, that little bit of salt, which is, you know, which is the most appealing to people. So if we're gonna, we're on it. We're on a mission. We're on a cacao revolution mission to get cacao into every home, into everybody's bodies, because it's so beneficial. Hopefully we'll talk more about the kind of benefits and the nutrient nutritional content of it after this. But it's. I'm not going to get that into every supermarket, every shop, every cafe, every restaurant if I'm making it taste like disgusting. Yeah, we've got to make it taste nice. So that's, that's part of what my mission is like, make it taste nice, make it palatable so people love it. And it's, you know, this, it's this heart medicine, but part of the heart is sweetness as well. So it's like trying to get that to expand and evolve and kind of flow, really. I like that direction you're going because a lot of people think, because they think cacao's dark chocolate and dark chocolate tends to taste quite bitter. So people would naturally think that it's just going to taste bitter, wouldn't they? So the fact that you're doing this, I think that's great. And I quite like the sound of caramel flavored cacao. That sounds fantastic. Well, that's what you, that's what you pretty much drank the other day. I had. Yeah, it was lovely. Caramel kind of flavor. Yeah, yeah. We use agave, we don't use any refined sugars. We use agave and coconut sugar. Remind me after we finish to make you contact with last week's guest because they've created a new sugar that's pure and it's got low GI and it's better for the body than Agarvis. So I'll introduce you to him. Let's go into the benefits then, because it's got so many benefits and it's so good for you and it's so powerful. But I'm going to let you share all of that because I know you're like a powerhouse of knowledge on this subject. Yeah. So the benefits are ridiculous, really. If you're just looking at the scientific benefits, the studies that have been done. Cognition, the early onset of Alzheimer's, it's amazing for cognition because it's full of flavonoids, it's full of magnesium, which is all about brain function, function, but it's also oxygenating the brain. Every time you have a cow, it's oxygenating your brain, which is giving you. You know, we're in a world where there's a mental health crisis where everybody's, you know, stuck in what's going on in the mind. They identify with the, the spiral of thoughts that are going on in the mind all the time. They're always overthinking things and thinking, what's that person thinking of me? What's that, you know, all this stuff that's going on in the mind and this oxygenation process of the mind allows us to just, it stops, it like drops us into the heart, allows our decisions to come from the heart. And actually more importantly, the concept that's going on in the mind is making us not be present. So cacao oxygenating the brain brings us into the present. And that's the only truth that exists in the world is the present. So if we're, if we, you know, if we're thinking about the past, that's depression. If we're thinking about the future, that's anxiety. And, and that's all the mind does is past and future, past and future, past and future. It's never present. Yeah. So just being present. When you, whenever you're present and fully present, everything's all good. It's all good. Do you know what I mean? There's very few situations where it's not all good because what something might, bad might have happened in the past, but you're thinking about it. So it's happening again. You know, it's like your mind is that powerful that whatever you're thinking about is your body's feeling it, it's happening. So it's like make sure what you think is positive. And with that oxygenation process, it's allowing us to just be, is allowing us to drop into the heart. Because what's happening with cacao as well is because of the, because of the content. And if you drink in a ceremonial dose, it increases the heart rate a little bit. So if you're drinking a daily dose which is 15 to 20 grams, it increases the heart rate a little bit. In a cacao ceremony, we're increasing the heart rate by about 10 to 15 beats per minute. Yeah. So what that's doing to the heart is it's cleansing and purifying the capillaries in the arteries around the heart. One in five deaths globally is heart related. People started drinking cacao every day. That had dropped drastically. And the thing is, with cacao and coffee, because we're, you know, there's, there's a mission to take, for cacao to take over from coffee by 2032. Yeah. And people are like, yeah, but how's that going to happen? It's like, well, coffee is a cup of anxiety, fight and flight response and puts you on edge and gives you like little Jitters, but gets you through the day. You know, it's this 3D consciousness of how do we want workers to get through their day? It's like coffee. Yeah. Because they wake up tired. Coffee bump. I've gotten good for a couple of hours. Another coffee bump. Drop, have a dive after. Need another coffee. Do you know what I mean? Whereas cacao, it's like I've one in the morning. Feel amazing. Feel this flow. Also get this. Pick me up. Because it is a stimulant, contains theobroma. There's a big debate about it being full of caffeine. It doesn't contain caffeine as the smallest traceable amount of caffeine. But people get confused because theobroma is a similar stimulant to caffeine. But it's like, you know when you've got two uncles and one's an absolute idiot and one's really nice. Yeah. That's. No, it's like one really stresses you out. Yeah, yeah. That's what. That's caffeine and theobroma. That's the difference. Yeah. Your uncle that you don't like being around and makes you feel uncomfortable, and your uncle that just gives you a cuddle and buys presents and loves you and picks you up, puts you on your shoulders until you get a bit too old for that and you break his back. Oh, I love that. That's brilliant. But then I think. I think the biggest thing that's come through for me since I've started the business is, is the benefits for women, like every day. I got a message off a woman yesterday. She had to come to one of your ceremonies, a little half an hour one. She went, I felt totally empowered. I felt inspired. I felt like I could do things that I couldn't do before. And she went. And that's been a pivotal moment. And she went, I've started drinking cacao every day. A lot of my issues with women's problems seem to have, you know, ebbed away because Kakao is amazing for women's issues. So the lead up to a period, the actual period symptoms, amazing for perimenopausal women, amazing for menopausal women. And again, it's just getting. It's just. It's an adaptogen. So whatever you've got out of balance within your system is bringing it back into balance. So I get a message every day off a woman saying, thank you so much. You could. Cows changed my life. I've, you know, this one girl, she was like, I've had a period for 20 years. And the five days leading up to my period, I've known my period was coming and I've been in agony. And she went, I started drinking your cacao. And she went, I came on my period the other day and I had no idea I was coming on my period. And that's not happened for 20 years. So to me, that is just magical. People go, I want scientific proof. I'm like, I want first hand proof. Because any scientific proof is done under circumstances that aren't natural anyway. Yeah. So I want people messaging me going, you can cows change my life? That's the most important thing to me is women messaging me saying, your cacao's changed my life. Your cacao's made my periods manageable. Your cacao's made me less ratty when my period's going on and less irritable to myself and to everyone else around me. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, wow, what a, what an impact something that we're producing is having on people. And that's what makes it super pleasurable and super like, rewarding. Can you hear that, Liam? That's the sound of men and people's partners running to buy your cacao for their men. Probably more so. I've got, I've got one female friend and she was like, she was just like, she was like, this was before she started drinking cacao. She just came to, she went, I've been horrible for five days. I don't know why he's, how he's not left or killed me. It's like, oh, lad was that? What have you been doing to him? I'm just, just wanted to kill everybody. Oh my God, I've not been here. Yeah, you could be a slugging, save a man's life, drink a cow. Yeah, well, and that's, you know, with the divine feminine and the divine masculine as well. It's, it's for the man to hold space. Because we don't, you know, we can't understand that chemical imbalance that you go through during those periods. You know, I mean, we just think you've gone nuts. And actually it's just, can we hold space? Can we go make you a beautiful cacao? You know, can we get you anything? What, where can we be more nurturing towards the feminine when, when they're in that process, you know what I mean? Where, you know, where we're just like, I'm getting out of the house and then you're triggering her abandonment issues because you're leaving. Exactly. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah. Cacao solves all the problems and it's full of nutrients, isn't it? Yeah. It holds everything. Cacao solves all worlds, all world wars, just creates peace, everything. Well, that's what we say. It's like the difference between, like, cacao's a cup of love, abundance and joy. Why don't you want to start your day with that? And especially with Archa Cow. Because it's full power. So it's like, you know, our motto is, why be half power when you can be full power? Why do you want to be living your day, like sort of meekly achieving the things, little bits where you can achieve what you're supposed to be achieving and, you know, be full power. So it's that affirmation as well, of full power. We're not messing about with full power. Do you know what I mean? Stop being half power. Stop holding yourself back by limiting beliefs, limiting affirmations, you know, being attached to things that have happened in the past, being scared of things that might happen in the future, which is the dumbest thing you can ever even do. Do you know what I mean? Because you have no idea what's going to go on in the future. It's true, true, true. Just one second, guys. Can you just. I can. I can hear you up here. Do you mind just. Yeah, thank you. So I've got guests chatting in the living room. All right, I'll cut that bit out. I don't know if you could hear him or not, but I was like, I can hear him. I couldn't hear him, but. Oh, oh, good. Sorry, carry on. No, yeah, just the. The whole kind of affirmation thing with it being. We've on our branding being full power as well. Full power is just something that I've been saying for years as a yoga teacher. I think I picked it up in India somewhere and I've been saying it for donkeys years. And then once I was thinking about what to call my cacao brand, I was like running past a few people drink Full power. Cacao sounds all right. And they were like, well, you say full power every minute of every day, so, yeah, go for it. Yeah, I think it's brilliant. I think it says what it is. Does on the tin as well, doesn't it? It's like, gives you full power. Brilliant. Exactly. Love it. Exactly. So tell us a bit about your journey and how you got into this. You've got a really interesting story, like what started you on your kind of spiritual quest, as it were. So I guess There was a. There was a few things pivotal. I think I had almost like an environmental planetary awakening in terms of, like, how people treated the planet, how we, you know, rivers and everything and a sustainability and being more in harmony with the planet. So I had this kind of green awakening when I was at uni. And then my mum died in 2007, in my last year at Unique, and that kind of made me sort of start looking at things a little bit differently. And then kind of went through a mad depression, which was for a northern lad, it was like depression was always something that we thought happened to southern blokes because he was soft, do you know what I mean? And there's something that's very put up and shut up up north, isn't it? And all my southern mates that were depressed, I was like, well, just do stuff that makes you happy then, you know what I mean? And then when I. When I got depressed, I was like, whoa, right, this is heavy. And I couldn't really. I couldn't get out of it. And I was, you know, perpetually thinking about the present, the future, the past, all at once and at this just constant kind of. I felt toxic, I felt ill, I wanted to kill myself for a long, long time. And then I basically got arrested. I was a drug dealer at the time. I was a drug dealer when my mom was alive. And then when she died, I kind of thought she was. Could see what I was doing. So I sort of stopped selling drugs. Nothing bad, I was only selling drugs that made people dance. So don't anyone think I'm like, was selling crack or anything. And even if I was, if you. If you're reformed from it, it's all good. It's just part of your texture of your life. And it's still better than probably living in a factory, working in a factory. But, yeah, so I got arrested with a lot of ecstasy on me and I thought I was going to go prison for a long time. And that kind of was like the moment where I was like, right, because what I'd done was I'd stopped doing those things because I was so depressed. I was like searching for things that used to make me happy. So I went back to selling drugs and I was like, I don't even like being in clubs anymore. I don't even like being in that environment. I don't like being up late because it was triggering a lot of emotion in me. I was getting really upset all the time about my mom and about just my life. I didn't feel like I was I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing and I wasn't happy with the world and what was expected of me and what was expected of me when I left uni and at uni and, like, get a job. And I was like, get a job, man. What? What? I've just been living. Living at uni, like this kind of almost life of freedom, and now you want me to go and get a job and wear a suit every day. And I'd said, when I was a kid, I was like, nine to five. Nah, people who do that, that's not for me. And anyway, I did get a job in the city, but I. I looked at myself when I put a suit on this one day and I was like, no, this is not. Not for me. I just proved that I could do the academic thing. Do you know what I mean? And I couldn't imagine it, like, knowing you, I was like, you just, like, you just want to fit your energy, your personal everything. I could imagine just being, like, on the, like, floor, like, selling, I don't know, trading or whatever. It just seems to be sat there in the middle, doing meditation, going, I think we should invest in this, in cacao. Yeah. Even then I was like, you know, I mean, I was. I was con. I was. I was very conscious even then. Like, I was. Obviously, I wasn't where I'm at now on my. On my journey, but I was really conscious and I was just like, I'm gonna sit in an office and talk to someone about what BMW they're buying. I was like, I'd rather just like, pour acid in my eyes or something, you know what I mean? I was like, it's not. I'm not asked about stuff like that. But, yeah, when I got. Getting arrested, in hindsight, was one of the. My mum dying and getting arrested was the best things that ever happened to my life because they really made me. Even though I had a terrible time, you know, for years after it, it was the. It was the catalyst for so much positive change. And all the people's lives that I'm changing at the moment, that was the catalyst for it. So it's beautiful, really. And when you look back, like, I got arrested, thought I was gonna go prison for a long time, ended up not going to prison, but was still suicidal. Wanted to go to prison, wanted to write a book, wanted to get away from the expectations of society and the pressures of. For a man and what you should be doing at a certain age, what you should have by a certain age. And it was just like, just felt intense. Don't know if I can swear on this podcast or radio show, but it was intense. And yeah, that was kind of like going, I basically to, to, to support my case. When I was going to get, you know, I was going to trial, I, I just started going to AA and na. I said that was an addict and I wasn't an addict. But when I started going, I realized I did have some sort of addict traits. And I did find that it was super uncomfortable going to AA and NA and CA because they make you talk about God. And I, I was always repelled by that word. Like most of us have been programmed into being repelled by that over the last 50 years pretty much. And then this big geezer, this like London gangster come up to me with gold teeth and he's like, bravo. It was like, it can be whatever you want in the universe, mate. It's like, just look up at the stars and it's something bigger than yourself. And I was like, all right, I can kind of get to grips without the God thing. Was like, well, got to grips with that and then started going through the, the 12 step process and realizing that it was, it was difficult, you know, getting on my knees and praying every day. I couldn't, I hated it at first. I couldn't stand it and. But then I realized, like, it's is very cognitive. It's a very cognitive process and a healing process that you go through. And then when I went to court and ended up getting found guilty, but then got sentenced and I only get 150 hours community service, my barrister was like, no idea how that's just happened. That is like the biggest miracle I've ever witnessed in a, in a courtroom. And I was just like, wow. Because I'd had loads of people write nice letters about me because I was still a nice, you know, I mean, I was a nice person. I was a caring guy. I had a lot of friends. I was an actor at the time. So actually, the evening that I got sentenced, I had a premiere at London Film Festival which was quite a juxtaposed because I was either going to the London Film Festival or I was going to go to prison for the first night that night. So it was like, quite interesting. Yeah. So, yeah, that was the kind of catalyst of me making positive change, thinking about spirituality. When I didn't go prison, my girlfriend took me to India. I started practicing yoga and then, then it just went mental. Like, it was like I wanted that. That was the first thing that I felt passionate about in my life that I wanted my life to be because it seemed to make sense and it gave me a purpose and a drive and a desire to be a better person. And then started on the yoga path and everything moved back to Manchester. Loads of synchronicities had happened where my friend had moved back in with her mom and dad and she'd started seeing angels and demons. And I was thinking, she's lost the plot, she's gone nuts. And then we just kind of went on this spiritual awakening together. Like, thought we were the only people in Manchester that had woke up to this. And then, you know, thought, we're gonna have to go to move to California to find more spiritual people. And then we started finding people in Manchester. We were like, oh, right, this. This is a thing. What. This is actually a thing that other people are into. And it just kind of went from there. And she's now one of the UK's most popular sidekicks. You know, she takes you about six months to get an appointment with her. I was kind of feeling her name. You can give her a plug. She's called Catherine Henshaw. Catherine Henshaw, Yeah. Where can people, anyone, find her? You wanna. You can find her on Facebook. Catherine Henshaw, or. Yeah, find her on. Yeah, that's the main thing is. Is Facebook. She's an incredible psychic. But, yeah, like, a couple of years ago, she was doing so well and I was still kind of going. When we went to our first, like, level one healing course together, the woman was like, you two are on fast track. You're going to do amazing things in the world. So, like, two years ago, I was like, Catherine, smashing it. What am I doing? What am I supposed to be doing? You know what I mean? And then now it's just all kind of fallen into place. Like, we do a lot, we kind of work together as well, myself and Catherine a little bit. She brings a lot of the clients to the cacao ceremonies because she knows they'll help them progress really quickly. And then, yeah, I just kind of. From waking up into the end of 2011, I was in Guatemala for the end of the Mayan calendar In end of 2012, on a pilgrimage, obviously. Mayan calendar was this thing that had been kind of prophesied for thousands of years as a pivotal moment in the evolution of the Earth and the evolution of human consciousness. So it was like, wow, I've just messed about for all them years, partying, and now I'm like, here. I woke up at a perfect time and when I look back now, I realized no, because I talked to people and they're like, I thought I was a proper novice then, and I didn't know anything. And then now people go, wow, you've been doing this for over 10 years. Do you know what I mean? And it's. And I have. I've been. I've been holding cacao ceremonies for over 10 years. The Guatemala trip was where I met Keith, the cacao shaman, and learned everything about cacao. You know, the fact that it's used in ceremonies. I started doing ceremonies from that point, and then my ceremonies have just grown, grown, grown. You know what I mean? I love that the shaman's name is Keith. Sounds something really ethereal. The shaman Keith? Yeah. Well, he's amazing. He was like a wiry American guy, like a proper, you know, spiritual guy. Went to this place in Lake Atitlan in Guatemala, and he. The cacao spirit comes to him. It was like this, this. This ancient lost knowledge needs to come back, needs to be spread across the world. Because what they say is that these medicines come out of the jungle to bring humans back into harmony with nature. And we're totally out of harmony at the moment. That's why these ayahuasca, reboga, San Pedro, peyote, that's why they're so popular now, because humans are so disconnected. It's like we need something to reconnect us back in with nature, to see the oneness and the harmonization and that, you know, if we do something bad to nature, it has a bad effect to everything because we're all living on this planet. It's, you know, it's like a home. It's like you're coming home from work and your kids destroyed your house. Do you know what I mean? It's not acceptable. So it's like anyone destroying anything on the world is not acceptable. And it's like we've got to bring ourselves back into balance when our heart's fully open, when we're living our life purpose, when we're connected to nature, we. We're not destroying it. Do you know what I mean? So it's like the cacao came to Keith and was like, find out all the ancient lost history about cacao. And he did, because it was depicted in all the Mayan hieroglyphs, temples and stuff, but nobody really knew what they used it for. So he, you know, started investigating it and went to some tribes where they used it and then started spreading it. So anybody who's doing cacao ceremonies in the west or anywhere in the World pretty much will be some way in a linogistic style related to Keith because he was the first kind of guy that brought it back and started and was holding ceremonies and teaching people and showing people. So I know these are like there's a lot of people that have sat on Keith's porch in Guatemala that are now serving cacao, doing ceremonies or doing amazing healing work or have got their own cacao companies, you know, which is amazing. That is amazing. What incredible story. And Keith, who knew? Keith was on ITV the other week, wasn't he? Yeah, he was on a Breaking dad with Bradley. Bradley Cooper or Bradley Walsh, one of them Bradleys. Okay, but Bradley Cooper's the actor. He was, he's the actor, isn't he? Bradley Cooper, I think, I think it's the one that was on Coronation Street. Yeah. I don't know, I don't, I don't watch those shows. I'm not anything TV. I like stop watching them 20 odd years ago. Yeah. The income reducer, as I call it, the TV. My advice with people with TVs is to get it, pick it up, walk it upstairs, open your window and throw it out. Oh, I'm not that extreme. I like watching a mov. A movie or the odd series, but I don't watch terrestrial TV or news. I just. Yeah, no, I don't. All of that out of my life. Yeah. So this is, this is brilliant. So you actually now bring it in. So this has changed your life in more ways than one really. Than cacao. Not only is it a life changing actual drink and substance, but it's changed your actual life as well, which isn't. Which is incredible. And you're now using it to change the lives of other people. So I love, I love this story and I love where you come from and what you're now doing in the world. It's just incredible. I have this real belief, I think the people that face the biggest adversities have done so so that they can then grow stronger and learn the life lessons. So they can then go and heal other people, I think really heal and have that compassion for others if you've not had it. So yeah, I think that you were truly meant to go through that. So you go out into the world to do what you do now. So that's lovely. Totally. That's why I say to people, don't moan about your adversities because the biggest blessings in disguise actually. And all the people who are doing amaz, amazing work, healers and you know, people that are changing people's lives are the ones that have got textured, textured histories. And it's. So actually, that's the training on an energetic soul level. That's the training you've got to have to go through to be able to have a bigger impact on a larger amount of people. And that's what I'm capable of doing. I can. I have an impact on, you know, thousands of people every year. By all the, you know, the shows that I go to, you know, we only. We only hear about a fraction of the people who give us feedback, you know, because a lot of people don't give you feedback or don't send a video or don't send a letter, but we know that just the fraction that we're getting is magnificent. But then the other people that we're hitting that we don't hear about, that's amazing as well. We don't need to hear about it or do you know what I mean? It's just to know that we are shifting people. And, you know, I'm very. I'm very disciplined, and I'm very, like, old school in terms of, like, just get this done, you know, you don't need to go to counseling for six years to eventually get over the fact that someone said a bad word to you when you was four. Do you know what I mean? It's like, jesus Christ, let's just let that go today. And I'm like, let's do it today. You know, there's. There is only today. You might die tomorrow. Do you want us. Do you want to keep thinking about things that you. You that are going through your head, that are holding you back, or do you want to just let go of them? It's a choice. Yeah. And people really get triggered by that. It's like, it's a choice. If you're holding on to your past, it's your choice. Take responsibility for it. I'll make a better choice. But people don't realize. And then trauma's, like, so intrinsic. But I think that's like, I. I actually do trauma release people. That's what I actually work on when I work one on one with my clients. And it's just such a powerful thing to do. When you get people to release that and let go of it, it literally changes the life. So I am 100% on the same page with you on that. 100. Right, right. So. So people interested in having a little go at a cacao ceremony, how can they find you? I know you're on tour right now, so where are you going to be this year? Find you? Where can they find you? You know what I'll be, I'll be at festivals all over the country. The next, the next. We've got a kick out ceremony in tonight in Bisley in Surrey. But you'll, you'll just probably won't go out by then. And then we've got one in Saint Austell in Cornwall on Sunday and then the next one is the 22nd of April in Manchester and that's going to be a massive one with all my graduates that people that have trained with me will be present at that one. And then we're at Soul Fest, we're at OM Yoga show during the summer, we're at Spa Fest, we're at wow Festival. So these will all get put on my website shortly. So you'll find us doing little kind of taste the cacao ceremonies. But people, you know when I told you about that woman who said about the cacao ceremony changing a life, that was a 30 minute taster one. I blast people in 30 minutes. Do you know what I mean? I'm. I'm strong, I'm powerful and I give people the ability to be strong and powerful themselves, you know, regard wherever they think they are in, you know, in their life. So it's like even if you just come and get see 30 minutes of what we do it, you know, it's got a possibility of giving you a really good upgrade and download and empowerment, inspiration. Amazing. So what's your website? Share what your website is. My website is ww.fullpowercaka.com. awesome. And then my personal one is Liam Brown.com and Brown is. Brown with an e. Yeah, Brown with an E. Not selling them anymore. I've just spelled me one. Exactly. Oh that's amazing. You've also got your own festival, haven't you? The Stone Cold Sober Festival. Yes, the Stone Cold Sober Festival. So we started Stone cold sober in 2020, February 2020 doing yoga raves which I was like facilitating and we were thought we were going to take these yoga raves all over the country like and you know into big venues and stuff. And then obviously Kovid thing happened and I just kept on doing what I was doing. I was doing, I was doing yoga raves online with my brother every Sunday. He was DJing in my front room and we had like, we had thousands and thousands like I think one of the videos like 4000 people hit 5, 000 people like you know, checking out the, the yoga rave and doing it and, and Then I did this thing called the two banger dance party at 6pm every night. Obviously three weeks to flat on the curve became whatever ridiculous amount. And I ended up doing like something like 88 shows consecutively. But I was all over the country, me, because it was like freedom to just drive wherever I wanted because there was no traffic. And I loved it. It was like. So I was like. I pretended that I was getting green screened in different lakes and beaches all over the world. I've got my, yeah, I've got my. My digital team are here, my set designers and I was just all over the place and I just do like put rave tracks on and dance to him. And in the preceding two years, I've met people all over the country have come up to me and gone, you're Liam. You really kept me alive during lockdown. Thank you so much. By dancing like an idiot every night. So. So then we decided to put on a. A yoga retreat. People I'd been teaching yoga and then my business partner Joanna Barnes, who does Stone call top with me, we're like, right, we'll put on a. Do a yoga retreat. So we started doing yoga retreats. And then last year we were like, right, we kept all these people kept canceling the festivals because of this and that. And we were like, we're doing a festival. We're going to do our own festival. Because I'm sick of getting canceled, sick of putting stuff in my diary and somebody, you know, flakes out on it. It's like, we're doing this and it's gonna happen. So it happened last year. It was absolutely divine and we're doing it again this year. It's in a. Is it called Sourby Worth in Hertfordshire? I don't know. Celebrate Salisbury. It's near Harlow. It's kind of like the Hertfordshire and Essex border. And it's the Stone Cold Sober festival. It's a yoga and cosmic consciousness festival with tons of electronic music, drum and bass, world music, techno, all sorts, ecstatic dance. But tons of is a yoga festival. So yoga is a path towards self realization and enlightenment. So we're propelling people closer towards the fullest expression of who they are and allowing their magnificence to shine brightly. So it's vegan, there's tons of cacao ceremonies, there's tons of yoga, there's tons of breath work. These women's circles, these men's circles, there's lots of workshops, there's multi dimensional healing. They've got loads of different stalls, food stalls, crystal stalls, beautiful things. Going on. And cacao, obviously there's tons of cacao. There's a cacao tent and there's cacao ceremonies running all day. So you can just jump in one whenever you want. I love that you do an exciting dance. I used to do that when I was in Bali. It was like the highlight of my week. Used to do it on a Friday night and then on a Sunday morning at the yoga barn in Ubud in Bali. Oh yeah, yeah. Love it. I loved it. So I love that you're bringing that in. I've been looking for somewhere in the UK that's been doing it. Do you want to explain to what all these things are? So like. Because you've mentioned quite, quite a few things but I'm sure there's a lot of people listening that don't know what exact dance is or don't know what these things are. So let's go into bit of detail so they can know what to expect. So everything we do is a modality or a practice towards freeing you up from reservations, from stock energies, from not thinking you can do things. So like the ecstatic dances to go, right, so as a culture we can't really dance until we're drunk, which is ridiculous because indigenous tribes all over the world dance dancing is natural. You know, we're supposed to dance. So by doing ecstatic dance, it's, it's set in this safe space and it helps you to evolve into a more confident person. So it's like, you know, it's quite nerve wracking when you first do ecstatic dance for the first time because you feel so self conscious. But it's like the music starts off quite chilled, builds up into really kind of like high bpm, fast music, intense music and then it drops down. It's almost like a healing within itself, an ecstatic dance. So you have these different waves and frequencies which are working with your system as well because you're made up of waves and frequencies as well. So it's like, you know, drop the heaviness from the shoulders, drop your armor and just, you know, rather than dancing to the music, let the music dance. You let your body do what it feels like doing to them. Beats to that music, to that flow, whatever it is. So that's, that's what our ecstatic dances are. And other modalities like the cold water therapy, that's a massive thing on people kind of doing something that they really didn't think they could do. And then it kind of makes them go, it's like, oh, well, what else am I telling myself that I can't do? I also, in life am I thinking I can't do, and I. I can. Someone else can do it in the world, you pretty much can do it, you know, unless it's kind of beating Usain Bolt in a race, you know, you give it a good go, though, couldn't you? You could get. You could get. You could become the best. You could become 100 meters, you know what I mean? Do you know what the excited dance is? Absolutely brilliant. So if anyone's never been out dancing without drinking, give it a go. Like, come along to the festival or find someone that does it, but preferably come to the festival because you'd be in this amazing community around you and energy. Something happens to you when you're doing this dance, when you learn how to dance without alcohol, and then you let go of all the insecurities, which is what happens, and you just get connected into, like, your heart, space and love. You. You feel. Feel incredible at the end of it, and it definitely shifts you and it just makes you happy. And realize that you don't need to drink to have fun doesn't mean you have to stop drinking. By the way, if anyone's listening going, does this mean I have to stop drinking? No, you can still drink if you want to, but experience doing it without needing alcohol. So then in your life, you can choose to drink because you want to, not because you feel like you need to. And I think there's a lot of people that drink because they don't feel like they can be out in society and have fun or they're trying to escape from their life or stress. And I think alcohol to do it when actually you can do something like ecstatic dance. If you learn that, you can do that and that can shift all that stress. And that's all like taking the edge of the stressful week. And it's a really healthy way of doing it without needing to drink. If you want to drink, cool. Yeah. But experience, at least just once in your life, come along and experience it, because it will change your life. And it's. It's having a, you know, having an amazing time and then getting up the next day easily. Do you know what I mean? You feel great, you feel inspired, you feel vibrant, you feel like you want to go and do something again, which is how you. How we should be living, really. You don't want to live with a hangover every day. There's a lot of people come with reservations last year about it being sober oh, and people were like, well, can we do mushrooms? Can we do this? And I was like, stone cold sober. If you need to do something, don't come to my festival. Yeah, because I'll really remove you. Because the thing is, you've got to respect that as well. And it was super important because I'm into the Christ conscious energy and the divine nature of yoga. It's like, yeah, you can use plant medicines and you can use, you know, do these experiences, but they have to be really, like in a really safe held space and you have to have then time to process it afterwards. You don't want to be doing that at a festival when you've got all these activities going on and you're like trying to process something deep. We want to just open people up, allow the fullest version of himself to shine brightly. Dancing people have big breakthroughs just through dance, because it's like, oh, I've just done that. And it was incredible. What for us, like last year when we did it for the first time, it was like after three days of people doing all the yoga, all the practices, or, you know, you just choose what you want to do. But everybody was in the most magnificent version of themselves. I was crying all day because of how beautiful the energy was on the site and how connected everybody was and how free everybody was in. Everybody's guard had gone. You know, the cacao opens people up, allows that guard to drop as well. And every. Just like the whole. The whole festival just felt like one massive family. It was like a utopia. And what you do with, with other festivals where these drugs and where these, you know, mushrooms or people become on different vibrations, and we just wanted to create this one vibration that everybody could connect to within that festival. So it's not far for people from London to come and, you know, they could come and do a couple of days or come to the whole thing, whatever. You don't want to miss the opening and closing ceremonies though, because they're super powerful. I think it's good. I think you're taking people back to that sort of joy state. You know, when you're a kid and you just enjoy and bliss and fun. You didn't need alcohol when you were a kid. You were just in that happiness and that state and carefree. And I think as adults, sometimes we forget because we go through stuff in our life and burdens and stresses and responsibilities. We kind of get weighed down by all this stuff and work and. And, you know, we go through traumatic things and losses. It's easy to turn to substances to help alleviate that or to try and have fun and it becomes like a crutch, doesn't it? So you can go, if you can just spend a week in your life and just experience going back to that state. It takes you back to when that your happiest time when you were a kid, like back to that sort of innocence and joy and inside you and you just reconnect to that sort of inner child and learn how to have that fun and playfulness without it. So that when you go back into you back to your life again afterwards, I think it changes you, it takes you back that joy and you know how to be happy in life without needing to escape it anymore. So I think it's a wonderful thing that you're doing. It's really lovely. Yeah, yeah. It's just going to build and build because more people are becoming more aware of that, more people are becoming sober. And it's super important for us as well because you've to be able to go right, you know what? This is a space for a week where none of that exists other than just love, joy and amazingness. And what you find is people who's want to give us their sight. They're like, you don't have alcohol. It's like, no, we don't need, we're not going to need as much security, going to need to wash up as much sick and toilets and you know what I mean? Because people are just like so much more respectful because they're not drunk. Do you know what I mean? Not arguing at the end of the night. Exactly. Exactly. When is it? What date is it this year? It is the 17th to 22nd June. So we incorporate the summer solstice into it every year. So we have a big ceremony on the 21st for the summer solstice, bringing all that divine light and magic which is increasing every year, which is much, much needed. It's like a power up for each person for the, for the rest of the year. Oh, I love that. And where do people stay? So there's, it's a glamping site. So there's like 45 glamping scents that you can book or you can just bring your own scent. There's a camping field as well. I like the idea of the glamping. Yeah, it's beautiful. The glass. There's still plenty, there's still plenty of the glamping tents left. But yeah, we're just kind of this year just making it bigger and better. Just designing all the, the schedule and stuff. At the moment, which is what I'm doing. Yeah. Showers. Have you got showers for people? Yeah, we've got showers, yeah. Awesome showers. A lake, actual real toilets. Wow. Incredible, baby. It's fancy. Fancy festival. I love it. What else you got going on? I know you've got a book out. Yeah, the book's amazing. The book is getting more popular all the time. It's just kind of grown organically. It's called Dealer to Healer. A modern tale of effed up male. And that's just my life story really, interspersed. It's. Well, it's, it's a. It's a story of me going to Guatemala for the end of the Mayan calendar. But it's interspersed with like life events and it kind of all kind of comes together. A lot of feedback is that it's make. Can make you laugh and cry on the same page. Thankfully, my personality comes through where I make people laugh, which is good. I don't take everything too seriously. You know, I get a lot of feedback from that as well as saying it's inspired people to do stuff, it's inside people to travel, it's inspired people to care less about what the people around them think. That's one of the. The biggest pieces of work that I've produced in my life as a, you know, as a thing that was. It's quite cathartic right in it and it's a massive book. It's fat book. People go, literally, that was a fat book. And they opened it up and I was like, wow, the words are really tiny as well. So that's a really fat book. Like I was expecting big words. Brilliant. And it's on audible as well. Oh, brilliant. I love, I love listening to books. I find it a lot easier go for a walk and listen if people are interested in actually getting more into the cacao. You actually teach people how to do the ceremonies as well, don't you? Yeah. We started the facilitator training a couple years ago and we've got another one in May, which is the 15th to the 19th of May, and that's in Matlock in Derbyshire. And like an amazing, like stately home thing that we're doing it in basically, you know, especially for like counselors, yoga teachers, somebody who wants to add something more to what they're offering. Because what I say to people is out of me as a yoga teacher. So a yoga teacher, the definition is you're teaching people to propel them towards self realization and enlightenment. Yeah. So you don't have to do that. By physical stretches that can be done by singing, by talking, by philosophizing, by educating me. As a yoga teacher, the most powerful method I've got to propelling people towards self realization and enlightenment is cacao ceremonies. Yeah. So that's my, that's my magic. That's where I get the best results. That's where I see the, the best results. That's where I see the quickest results and coming and doing my training and being able to offer that to people. It kind of. If you started doing cacao ceremonies now. Yeah. And just sort of learn as you went along. Well, you'd still have to come and you still need to watch people do it, you know, because there's a lot of charlatans out there. But if you come on the training, I'm gonna put you five years ahead of where you'd be if you were just doing it by yourself. Instantly with it. In five days I'm gonna buy you five, five years ahead on your path of working with Kikao. Because we go into the history, we give you the downloads, the activations, we show you how to hold ceremony, we get you working in front of people to build up your confidence of delivering. We talk about the importance of holding space and you know, being responsible whilst holding that space, which a lot of people are really bad at in the communities and you know, and having that discipline as well. We take people on a tapas for 30 days afterwards where we do certain practices for 30 days. Just give people that thing. Because our big thing is like we wouldn't be where we were and doing what we were doing if we didn't practice every day. If we didn't get up and meditate, drink cacao and do yoga every day, we wouldn't be flying where we're flying. That's. People see me messing about and having a good time and taking a piss and being funny. Yeah. Without my practice in the morning, without my discipline, I wouldn't be able to do them things. By doing that in the morning gives me the opportunity to be free throughout the rest of my day. Sets your day up. Sets my day up and means I can just have fun. I like that you're doing the 30 days afterwards as well. Like because a lot of people do your training and then they're just left out, they're left to go into the world. But I like that you're sort of holding that space. You're like off you go. Yeah, good luck. Yeah, exactly. The thing is, once they've done the training, they, they've got the option. They can become part of the community, they can do stalls for us, they can wholesale the cacao, they can become part of the Full Power Cacao team. Come and see how we work at festivals. Come and assist. Do you know what I mean? There's all these tons because of where we're going and how popular and big we're getting. There's just more and more opportunities for everybody every week, you know what I mean? So. And to have the after Full Power kick out back in the name, you know, behind it, the energy that it has, the respect that it has, and we just want to support people on their journey, for them to become the best facilitator that they can be, you know, I mean, it's not how to hold a Liam Brown Kakao ceremony. No one else can do that. You know, it's be stupid. It's like me trying to do a Keith Cacao ceremony. It's stupid. I can't be Keith. There's only one Keith. And each person that does our training, we're like, how do you be the best? You don't want you to be me, I don't want you to be my partner, Pauline. I want you to be the best version of you. What's your usp? What are you bringing through? How's your ceremony going to develop? Because if it develops your true essence, it shouldn't be specifically like mine, you know, I mean, we're just giving people a framework to be able to create from, to be able to welcome my eyes from. That's what the training is all about. Yeah, it really works. I've done your cacao ceremonies, which are fantastic. A friend of mine, a good friend of mine, Naomi Buff, she's trained with you and she. I've been to her cacao ceremonies, also amazing, but both completely different because she's got her flavor and you, you've taught her really well and she's gone off and hers are incredible, but they've obviously got her energy and that feminine energy. Yeah. And yours are incredible. And what you bring to it with the singing and the music and just. Oh, it's absolutely fantastic. So, and so I love that you're teaching people and letting them be authentic in them and it actually really works. And you're creating. It's a genuine service. You're not just taking money off people and then throwing them out. You're actually genuinely caring about them and teaching them something that is a real benefit. So, you know. Yeah. So thank you from the rest of the world. So thank you energy to us. Yeah. You know, these people that are trained with us and their wives have come up to us afterwards and gone, wow, you know, your trainings changed our lives. Not just their life. It's like that, them doing that and being empowered to start holding space and start stepping up because we, you know, we talk about the business side of it as well. There's no point being spiritual and poor. Be spiritual and abundant, man. You know what I mean? There's nothing. There's this thing in the community, spiritual community, where it's like bad to be abundant. And it's like, no, it's not. It's essential. That's the truth of the universe. The universe is overflowing with abundance. And my abundance comes by me being a hundred percent confident that what I am selling to people is giving them back at least seven times the value that I'm charging them. And if I can sit with that and be confident about that, my life's good, man. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, they should be paying me seven times that. Yeah. But it changed because like, like abundance or just money in general, it's just energy. Money is energy. And I think when people, like, if they are a spiritual person, if you're judged, there is no judgment in spirituality and love. That's your ego. It's actually just your traumas and the, the money blocks that you have that you've learned from growing up that you've not worked on and some healing in yourself that's triggering you. So if you're having triggers around money and people charging money, that just highlights to you that there's something to heal within yourself, to let it go. Because, Solia, everyone deserves to be paid fairly, you know, for what they do and bring to the world. Everyone deserves to be abundant because that's the truth of the universe. It's overflowing, overflowing abundance. And the thing is, as well, I, you know, people can see me being abundant and it's like, yeah, but two years ago I wasn't. I've learned this. It was. It's not natural to me. I come from scarcity mentality. I come from lack. My dad grew up in dublin in the 50s, you know, total lack mentality. And I've had to process it and I've done a lot of work around it and I've, you know, I've really worked hard at it and I've really changed my. And now I coach people on abundance. You know, I guide people towards what books to read. You know, I give People advice on a business and it's like two years ago I was in a Sikh temple in Barcelona eating for free because I grew. I didn't have a penny to my name two years ago, just, yeah, the end of 2019. So two and a bit years ago I had nothing and I was, I was like, right, my spirituality is sweet. I've got lots of friends, I've got good morals, I've got good ethics. I've got no money. Yeah, what's the use of all them without, you know, now I've got that, okay, maybe I can be ready for that and I can do good with it. Because everything that we're trying to create with full power cacao. The mission is to create vegan off grid communities. That's like the long term vision of what the abundance of the cacao and the magic that we're going to bring to the whole of the country and hopefully the world and bring even more love, abundance and joy to the world. I've done a lot of building with Earth ships, which are the off grid sustainable ones made out of tires and they're the most efficient off grid buildings in terms of keeping the building warm without any need for services. But what we want to do is we want to build community, start with a small community with like a central hub. So we don't want people living in the same building together. It's like still have your space in your home but have like communal areas. And then there's yoga every morning, there's yoga in the afternoon, there's always curtain breath work, ecstatic dance. Almost like my festival but every day. And I don't say that it's like a lifelong festival. Yeah, pretty, pretty much. That's the, the plan. And just you know, vegan, growing our own food, polytunnels, all organic stuff like that. What's a polytunnel is just A polytunnel is where you grow fruit and vegetables. It's just like a, it's like a massive greenhouse really. Bought a small holding with my Mrs. In Southwest Wales so we're moving there soon. So that'll be like start a kit into creating communities. Super disciplined but having a good time because you go to some communities and they're super disciplined and that's all they are. We want to be super disciplined but have a rave every night, you know what I mean? And smiling's essential. And, and also not getting upset about the outside world. Let the outside world do what they want to do, I'll do what I want to do and Create utopia. Well, wish you best of luck with that. I'll have to let us know when you've got that up and running so we can let everybody know that it's a utopia to the public. Got a minute or two left. So is there anything that you would like to share before we say goodbye? Yeah, if people want to buy some cacao and they want a discount, they go to Full Power Cacao and at the checkout put in the code full power2012 and that'll get you 20 off your first order. Cacao. Teacher training is in May. The next cacao ceremony in Manchester is April 22nd. Stone cold sober Festival, which is gonna be amazing. And if you want to just like feel the magic and feel your heart open and expand and shift and transform, then it's. It's the place to be for the solstice. That's the 17th to the 22nd of June. And then I'm at festivals. Full Power gawa at festivals all over the summer. So you'll catch us at something we do. The Stone Cold Sober Yoga retreat is in Wales in November. That's on the Stone Cold Sober website as well at Stone Cold Sober events dot com. That's five days of transformation. You get to work with me really closely and everybody that comes has shifts and I. I can change your life in five days. Yeah. So people turn up, I let them leave unfucked. Is that in your marketing slogan? Yeah. In five days. What kind of yoga do you do? I teach less. Like a ash Sangari based vinyasa flows well, that's the asana I want. I won't get people back into saying the word asana because that's, that's asana. The stretching is asana. Yoga is a. And a scientifically proven system towards self realization and enlightenment. The actual stretching is just a tiny fraction of that, which it's not even actually mentioned in the sutras or by Patanjali. It's like the only, the only posture that's mentioned, physical posture is Sukhasana, which is the silo straight in meditation and receive the cosmic forces of the universe. Okay, so yoga doesn't actually mean yoga then? We've just been using that term. Yoga means union. Yoga means self realization and enlightenment. Asana means physical posture, which is we all do what in the west we think is yoga is asana practice. Yeah, sometimes he might throw in some breath work and a little bit of philosophy. You know, that's why I like Jeeva Mukti, because a jiva monkey class is more of a yoga class than just an asana class. You know, there's mantra, there's teachings, there's breath work, there's all the things mixed into it. That's why I love Jiva Mukti and it's got banging tunes, so it's like all the things that I'm into. You can have an amazing playlist. It's really modern, but also really traditional and really disciplined, which is what I like. Oh, I love that. So basically, get your asanama and do some asanas. Not yoga. Yeah, baby. Yes. Well, get on yoga. Get on yoga. Yoga is. Yoga is what everything is. Yoga is the truth. Yeah, I like that. But you're amazing and you're magnificent and you can do whatever you want in the world. Put your mind to it, put your grind to it and you can do it. All right. Oh, Liam, it's been an absolute pleasure. Shine to you. Thank you for coming on, sharing your infinite knowledge and wisdom. And everybody try his cacao. It is phenomenal. It tastes delicious. And if. If you can get there this year, get yourself to the Stone Cold Sober Festival. And I think I'm going to be there, actually. So I'll probably see you there. Yes. Thank you so much. Have an epic day. Thank you for listening. We're going to be on 9am and 9pm every day. This is the Eat Love Do Show. I've been Janine Newbury. My guest is. It's been the lovely Liam Brown. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.