Eat Love Do – Mark Sephton, Self Leadership & How To Do It

Hello and welcome to the Eat Love Do Show. I am Janine Newbury and I am your host, your hostess with the mostest, the mostest guests and the mostest chat. And a really good guest today, you're going to absolutely love him. His name is Mark Sefton. Um, he is a mentor, he's a writer, he's a media influencer, he's a podcaster. Um, he's, he's a bit of an all-rounder really, does a bit of everything. But I will let him introduce himself and chat about himself. Do remember to hit up our social, uh, our socials and followers on Instagram, Facebook, And Twitter, we are @WomensRadioSTN. And do go to our YouTube channel and hit that like and subscribe button because it really helps us and we love it when you support the show. Anyway, that's enough of me waffling on. Let's get started. Mark, welcome to the show. I was going to say, am I an honorary woman today? Like, since it's— You are an honorary woman. Yeah, I've gifted you some ovaries just to record this show. You're welcome. Thank you. I'm already pregnant. Thank you very much. Pregnant and birthing of ideas. Absolutely. There was a time where I certainly probably had a tummy that represented a baby, but I shed that one. So I have literally— I think I have given birth in more recent times because I've been on quite a health journey the last, say, 6 months. Probably the healthiest and fittest I've been, which I always think, you know, we're all on a journey, aren't we? And when we focus on one area of our life, uh, and we, we have a breakthrough, um, we then kind of gives us confidence, uh, and a, and an ability to kind of want to keep developing different parts of us. I'm sure you're the same, Janine, where it's like, you know, once you get a clear understanding of what you were put on Earth to do, then you really just want to be the leanest, truest, uh, most switched-on, conscious, like, individual you can be. And I think that echoes through your work as well as mine. So I'm, I'm excited to have, you know, this discussion. And, and nothing's, nothing's off topic. Everything is, is on the table here. So yeah, be careful what you wish for. Well, I'm not necessarily wishing, but I think, you know, when we talk about like things like masculine and feminine energy, which is something that I love, I love talking about, I think that when you, when you liberate yourself, in doing so, you liberate other people. And, and when you have a greater sense of consciousness, you then create a greater consciousness for others. So, so when I say nothing's off the table, actually, then it actually encourages other people to also feel like they can be who they are without fear of judgment or ridicule. Um, But it's, it's that process of actually approving of yourself, uh, and not judging yourself, because we're all our best and, and worst critic, uh, in that, in that sense. And so I think when you do that, then it does give encouragement to other people to, to find their voice, you know. Yeah, I agree with that completely. And I think sometimes we're scared. We're scared to, like, speak our truth and show the world who we are and be who we are, because we're afraid of being judged or not accepted. And, you know, and it's scary to do that. And I think when somebody steps up and does that, it's like you say, it does give us permission to do that. So I think that that's what this show is all about really. It's like people just open, open, you know, being open and speaking honestly and sharing. And that gives other people permission to share as well and know that they're not on their own. I think like stuff around mental health issues and personal development is becoming really prevalent the last couple of years, which I think is fantastic. More people are opening up to personal growth and changing. So, and you know, radio shows like this, um, are reaching people worldwide. We're worldwide for this show. And I think it's really creating an impact. And I think when we've got guests on like you, just opening, um, open up your heart and sharing from that authentic space. I think it's really, I think it's absolutely fantastic and we need more of it in the world. So I'm very, very excited to be chatting to you today. Actually, you are actually, uh, you've got your, you're on a radio show as well. Is it just a podcast? Yes. So I did a radio show called Talk Business for 6 and a half years. So I've interviewed over 3,500 people. Yeah. So people in the public eye and then people at grassroots. And so barely anyone really. I mean, you were just starting out then at 3,500 people. That's right. Yeah. Whenever I'm interviewing a guest, I'm thinking, you know, if I'm really smart in asking the right questions, it doesn't just benefit the listener because at the end of the day, the most important person through a podcast or a radio show is actually the listener. It isn't about the presenter or the guest even. And I've always, I've always remembered that. And I just think that, but I think if we, if we keep reminding ourselves that it's, that it's about the audience, like, you know, I think that's, yeah, really important. Yeah, I say that with people that are speaking on stage as well, I mean, public speaking. And then when they get nervous, I'm like, it's not about you, it's about the people that you're delivering it to. And if you're focused on what you're delivering and the message you're giving, I don't think you can get nervous. I think, yeah, and it's all— it is, it's all about— and I think the people that really succeed at life are the ones that are actually out there in the world trying to give and help others as well and serve others. So I love that, I love that perspective you've got. Yeah, and there's just that little final bit, which is where I was going and kind of lost my trail of thought and deviated a little bit, but it— when I was talking about how people pay thousands for a mastermind, if you've got a guest, if you're asking the right questions, it isn't just to benefit the listener, but if you're smart enough, you actually created a little mini mastermind. And if you can ask the right questions that draws out the knowledge, the revelation that you have that you can put into your own life as a podcaster, as a coach, or whoever it is, then that's smart too. And I'm like, you know, this here, you should get the best of me. And if you do, then it's not just great for your listener, it's great for you. Like, that's amazing. Yeah, I definitely learned something from everyone I speak to, so I agree with that. It's brilliant. I feel like I'm on a mini masterclass every, every show. I'm like, I can't wait. I think people on them, I like, I like what they, uh, I like what they're putting out there, their stuff. I want to learn more about these topics, I'll chat to them. Completely selfish as well, I'll be honest about that. But, um, but yeah, but yeah, I'm hope— hopefully my listeners are enjoying what I'm putting out there as well. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. So anyway, enough about that. And what— let's get back onto you. Um, so you do a bit of mentoring around self-leadership. Do you want to just tell us a bit about what that is and what you do? Yeah, so I mean, there's a number of things that I do. And what do you mean by self-leadership as well. What's your interpretation of that? Okay, so I mean, I mean, with, with self-leadership, it's very much, you know, when you, when you talk about leadership, people always say, you know, leadership starts with you, you know. And so when I talk about self-leadership, it's your ability to lead yourself, it's your ability to show up in the world, it's your ability to connect, it's your ability to give of yourself, it's your ability to make a difference. So for me, every— everything that we do is all around the leadership of self, the leadership of our challenges, the leadership of our thoughts, of our relationships. So when I talk about self-leadership and what I am doing to help other people, it's helping them lead themselves better, it's helping them deal with life better. It's about their own thought process, their behaviors, their choices, which give them the greatest sense of not only result but also fulfillment and accomplishment. Um, you know, I live I live every day with the, with the consciousness of thinking, okay, if this is my last day on Earth, am I satisfied with what I've achieved? Am I satisfied with the man that I've been? Am I satisfied with the father I've been to my children, uh, the brother I've been to my sister, or, or whatever it is, whatever relationship dynamic it is? So what, what I mean by self-leadership and where I'm mentoring and coaching is that I'm helping people get a better understanding of how to lead themselves not only in their thought life but in their actions, their behaviors, what they're looking to create in their life. So, so that's really what I mean by self-leadership. Does that, does that kind of explain it a little? Yeah, I like the idea of it's like, am I living my best life? So you're not comparing yourself to other people, right? You focused on whether you're happy with what you've created and contributed to others and in life. And I think, yeah, I like that. I like that definition. So how would you bring that out of somebody? How would you get them started on that journey? What would you first do? Yeah, I'm glad that you asked that. I was going to lead into that anyway, so that was nice. You know, so I created something called my internal MRI, and sometimes I call it a GPS as well, because the whole thing with the GPS is, you know, you decide where you want to go, you put in the address, and then it'll give you a map of how to get from where you are to where you want to go. So some people understand that. And then I kind of like, uh, the internal MRI, because an MRI, obviously, it scans like the body and it looks for, for shadows, etc. And so the internal MRI that I created, which is based on 10 key fundamentals of what I believe makes up a person's basic DNA, what it does, it reveals blind spots, efficiencies, and deficiencies. So it looks at your beliefs, it looks at your behaviors, it looks at your choices, it looks at your actions. And I take every new client through this process so that we can get a real good comprehensive view of where you've ended up, where you are now. One of my favorite quotes is, if you don't change direction, you end up where you are now. So there's just like a, a reference point of saying, you know, this is where I am, and it's because of our choices, it's because of our beliefs, it's because of our behaviors, it's because of our actions that have got us to where we are. So sometimes people say to me, you know, I've got a relationship issue. We do the we do the MRI, the GPS assessment, and actually they don't have a relationship issue, they have a psychological issue that manifests itself through a dysfunctional relationship. Or it's a bit like in the body where you go to the doctor, you've got a pain in your elbow, and actually the problem's up in your shoulder, but it's deferred, you know, it's deferred pain. And so the beauty of the GPS is, again, and I'm glad that you picked it up even from my language that I used, is yeah, our competition isn't to the woman to the left, the man to the right. The competition is against you. It's a, it's really about what you're capable of. And the GPS is a real beautiful, gentle, but clarifying way of saying, this is where you are, Janine, and it's okay that you're here. And we talk a little bit about where you want to go, and we look at why you're where you're at, and what do you need to do to strengthen, uh, to be able to continue that journey. And actually, where do you need to shift a belief Uh, you know, I love talking about triggers. You know, whenever we're triggered, it's just really showing us where we need con— you know, continual healing. You know, these little things are the points that bring us to better leading of self, the whole self-leadership stuff. So that's how I do it in terms of maybe a practical— this is what you're gonna get for, for working with me and the work that I do. You know, a lot of my articles that I write are around self-leadership, they're around mindset etc. So yeah, that's a little bit of how it would look. I like how you start it with, like, see, work out where they're at and you say, this is where you are and this is okay. Yep. Because it just takes that pressure out. Because I think often we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be more, have more. I'll be happy when I've attained this, you know, got the body I want, the relationship I want, the business I want, the money I want, or whatever it is that they're striving for. And I think just that kind of acknowledging that this is actually where you are and it's okay. It just takes that pressure. So I really like that. So it sets that scene to start with that you can then sort of move forward on the journey you're going to take them with. So I love that. And you've got this really lovely calm energy about you as well. So I think, I think people that work with you, I can imagine they feel very safe and very held by you. That's really lovely. So I like that you can start like that. Yeah. Well, that says a lot about you as well, because I think often, you know, we see in others what we can identify in ourselves. We know that, we've heard that before. You know, but I, I love the fact that you're, you're sensitive enough to be able to pick up on energy because I love it. Like, energy, everything's about energy. We all have an energy, you know. And for me, I obviously, I do listen to feedback and psychological safety is really important to me. And, you know, I, I love empowering women in particular, and I have had women in, in places of position say, you know, Matt, love the fact that you create these safe spaces where people feel seen, they don't feel like judged, but there is that, that sense, you know. And, and I, I enjoy creating that. And I think having two daughters, I think, has given me, uh, that ability too. Because I, I, when I look at a woman— I talk about this in Mark of a Man a little bit because I'm challenging men on how we see women and how we view them in, in what we say— but I do think that when I look at a woman, I'm thinking, you know, this woman is the daughter of of somebody, of somebody else, you know. And because I have daughters, you know, I'm investing my energy into them, uh, and I'm teaching them, you know, what they deserve in terms of love and expectation, that when they're of the age where they want to date, you know, they know actually what is acceptable and what isn't. So I'm not actually that concerned, even though I know what even good men are like, you know, in terms of their intention. What are good men like, Mark? Well, I mean, good men, we're obviously human. It's not all bad. It's just how we channel some of those urges, desires, needs, whatever, whatever you want to, you know, focus on there. But I think, you know, like, it is, it is about, you know, educating people. And, and sometimes we have to teach people how we want to be loved. Uh, and also I think if it's a healthy dynamic, you know, that, that's really important too. And I, my concern for the younger generation really is around identity. And it's, it's interesting for me because I find like there's a sweet spot in the middle of, of things, how they used to be and how things are kind of almost going. For me, things are a little bit too liberal. It's like I'm all about getting rid of oppression and people feeling seen and accepted. I'm absolutely an advocate for that. But I also think that there is certain elements where I feel like there's a bit of a free-for-all. I'm not sure that's necessarily the best way, uh, because I do think that people are going to end up with an identity crisis. And, and that's typically why you still have bigots and you still have extreme feminists, where actually in between is where the sweet spot is. And, and one of the things I'm really passionate about is, is the fact that men are not women and women are not men, and they're to complement each other. And I talk about this in Mark of a Man. There's some things that women do way better than men, and men just need to get out the way and let that woman lead. Whatever, wherever we're identifying is, is much more in her wheelhouse, in her natural disposition, in her nurturing nature, in her feminine energy. And then there's things that women need to get out of the way of men and let a man lead. But because we've had the, the challenges— and it's hard for me, obviously, because I'm not a woman, so in some ways I have to tread carefully because I don't know what it's like to be an oppressed woman who only got the chance to vote 50 years ago. So I'm not trying to speak, you know, out of turn, but I'm trying to sit myself in a place where I feel I can relate. But it's almost like, you know, we've become so much about trying to be the other, um, that we've lost the beauty of when a man and a woman come together. When I think of like when musicians sing and I think of like Andrea Bocelli with his beautiful voice, and then when Celine Dion sang with What a— what an amazing mosaic of, of something beautiful. You're getting the best of both. That's really what I want to see. Um, I want to see more of that in the world rather than it being feminist FC or bigot, you know, FC. I want to see much more of the— well, you don't want more bigots in the world. Away with them, away with them, burn them, burn them on the stake. But this is— but this is a really interesting topic, and I think particularly around kind of relationships as well, like male-female relationships, or even same-sex relationships. There's masculine and feminine energies in those as well. But what I found chatting to friends and other people is that, especially women, when they get into their 40s— I'm in my 40s, so like some of my girlfriends, we're single and we're looking to date people, and I get this kind of feedback that it's really hard to find a man. And I'm like, well, there's a lot of good men out there, so I don't think it's difficult. But I think the difficulty we've seen is, um, our experience is that men seem to be a little bit lost. They don't know where their place is with women anymore because it used to be that the man was a provider, which is quite a masculine energy. And now women are out there and working and earning their own money. But I think, I think the issue isn't that women are out there doing it. I think that a lot of women have gone out to do it and they've kind of followed the male example and become too much in their masculine energy. So they've kind of lost that feminine. And they become almost too independent. And being independent, like, they don't— some women don't even like a guy opening a door for them or something like that. Oh, I can do it myself. And they won't let a man lead. Like you were saying before, like, let a man lead and be good at what he's good at and vice versa. And it's almost like, well, no, I can, I can do it all myself. I don't need a man to do it for me. And I think they've lost kind of— a lot of women have lost that kind of sense of it's okay to allow a man to take care of you as well as it's okay for a man to allow a woman to take care of him. And I think that's kind of lost a bit. Um, so I really, you know, so what, what would you suggest for people that are kind of maybe in, in sort of single arena that are out there kind of looking? And like, and particularly from a man's perspective, because women, women, we talk about this stuff a lot, but men tend to not. So it's— I'm quite interested to hear a man's perspective on this and how you would help, uh, the female listeners. And we get male listeners as well, and when it comes to relationship and like dealing with this kind of minefield of, um, relationships and masculine-feminine energy and where do they sit. Like, what do you think on that one? Boom, there's a bombshell. Off you go. I mean, yeah, I mean, I love this, I love this topic because it's important and, and it needs leadership on it and it needs, it needs talking about. And I, I'm, I'm a man who talks, you know. I haven't— I don't bottle things up. I, I express what I feel. I know why I feel it. I do a a lot of work on myself and have done for many years. And during the pandemic, I worked with a psychologist. I thought it was a great time. And you know what? Everybody should have a psychologist. It doesn't mean there's something wrong. I honestly think that everybody needs to have a psychologist. I think it's— I've got one just here. Yeah, a pocket-sized one. Carry one around with me all the time. Pocket-sized psychologist. I'm glad that you talked about it because I've shared real stories about this. There was a story of where there was a group of women that are in a car park, a car park lot, and they were on a hen do. And one of the girls was struggling to park the car, and a guy came up and said to the, said to the girl, would you like me to park it for you? And she said, that would be lovely. Um, so the guy did, and then a couple of the girls were outraged. They were like, I can't believe you like let a man do that. Like, it just says that, you know, we can't drive, or whatever it was. And it was like, you know, I was just like, how sad. And I like that they got triggered that way. Exactly. Yeah. And like I said at the start, we only get triggered by the things that we need continual healing with. And, and look, we all get triggered at some point. And, and thankfully, I, I used to get triggered quite a lot, and actually those triggers, uh, don't happen that often. And when they do, they kind of excite me now because my, my attitude towards it's like, oh great, another chance to get further healing. Wholeness. That's the right way to look at it, rather than thinking, oh, I'm a mess. You know, the other day I saw a man and woman carrying a table, and I said to— I said to the, the man and the woman, I said, would you like me to take the other end? The man said yes and the woman said no. So it's like, you know, I'm not— I'm not gonna— I'm not gonna, you know, belittle a woman by then not respecting her boundaries. But the interesting thing here is One of the biggest needs a man has is a man needs to feel needed. Like, it's huge. Like, if, if I'm saying that I want to carry this table, it's not me saying because you're not strong enough, because you're not able enough. But too often women are triggered, and men are triggered of course by the same thing, is, uh I am strong enough and I am able enough. Why would somebody think that I can't do it? It isn't about that. So when they— when the opportunity comes, it's like, let the man do it because it's his pleasure, you know. It's not because you're weak or because you're not able, you know, actually. And, and then what happens then is then men start— stop asking do you want help? Because they, they fear the rejection and knockback. And so we get into this negative cycle. And then you see in men that aren't masculine, you're seeing women that are saying, I just wish there was a masculine man. And some women have to take responsibility for the fact that, well, every time a man has tried to show masculine energy, you actually said no to him. So how is he supposed to? And then obviously there's still on the man where a man shouldn't just be shrinking just because he gets knocked back, because life is full of knockbacks. And the masculine energy requires you to keep showing up even if you don't get that which you want. So it is— it's a really interesting, like, dynamic here, you know, for me, you know, for me in, in terms of, like, the situation. It is interesting because there is different needs and there is different challenges between men and women. For example, you know, like, when I've been when I've been in the dating scene, it's like, you know, I have my children every other weekend or most weekends. A woman who has children, if she has an amical relationship with, with the father and he's a present father, he will then have the children when she is free. And then the guy, he has his kids. So then you have a really interesting dynamic of where, how are we going to make that work? Because the woman is free on the weekend, The man isn't because he's now got his kids. And yet, you know, we're trying, and that's just like one little barrier already just from— and it's nobody's fault. That's just the way it is, you know. And I think that when it comes to, you know, finding the right person, it isn't even just about the right person. It's actually about the right situation too. And, and that becomes a challenge because, I mean, I know for me, I focused a lot on a woman that I wanted to manifest, that I wanted to encourage, but probably didn't spend as much time on the situation. So then, you know, found that I was dating a really great woman, but the situation wasn't great. So that's— so then what? Then what do you do? You know, and, um, you know, it is a challenge, but communication is, is key anyway. It's about being true to yourself by saying, this is, this is an essential need I have. Um, and I just want to touch on this, and I'm sure you can then reflect back, um, what we're talking about, Ginny. But it's, you know, like, I've noticed that there's certain things that are essential needs. These things are like, they're like oxygen, you've got to have them. And then you have like the nice-to-haves. So, you know, you know, I'd like— it'd be nice if the man shaved, or, you know, he, he made an effort with his appearance. Yeah, I hate it when guys don't shave the legs. Exactly, exactly, exactly. So maybe that's an essential need for you, you know. Maybe that's where all the problem is, because yeah, 99% monsters out there. Exactly, exactly. So it's important that you know what, what are the things that you can— that are, that are a must-have, and it's okay you have them. And then what are the nice-to-haves? And then I think there's this thing called allowance. It's absolutely essential that in a relationship the woman is fully herself and the man is fully himself. Neither of you should have to try and mold, flex, blend into something that you're not. And of course relationships are full of compromise. I'm not talking about that, but there's this thing called allowance. Sometimes there may be things that you do, Janine, that may irritate me, um, but they might not irritate me. They may not— it's absolutely fine because we're still talking, so there's hope. So it's like, but I could— maybe the allowance of that is, yeah, I don't really like this part of Janine, but actually it doesn't affect me to the point where it's stopping me from being me, or it's actually, you know, hurting me. I could— I can manage it. But I think sometimes, you know, I have dated, uh, a girl where actually there was certain things she did, it was beyond what I— the allowance that I was able to give without it hurting me. Like, and I think that when somebody is being themselves but it actually hurts you continually and you can't find a resolve, that says to me that actually you know, the essential need is, is not being, is not being met. Uh, the nice-to-haves are kind of, they're desirable but they're not essential. They're not going to hurt you or cost you as, as much, you know. And what do you mean by essential needs? Give us some examples of that. Well, essential needs for me is like communication, and this was like one of the big ones for me. And, um, you know, the girl that I was, that I was dating, um, communication wasn't the best, so she would leave gaps and make me paint pictures in terms of what was actually going on. And for somebody who likes— because I'd say my sweet spot is I love to contribute, and that comes in, in all things that I do. That's probably why I do what I do, because I love the opportunity to contribute all my energy and all my wisdom and all my failings into whatever I'm doing. So I think when I'm left in the dark, that is a place that becomes too problematic for me. I'd much rather know, you know, I don't like this about you, Mark, and I don't like this, than actually somebody being silent or withdrawing or whatever that is. That for me, like, communication for me is absolutely an essential need. If I've done something that's upset you, then tell me and let me feel, uh, the, the pain of, of upsetting you, and let me own that, and let me take responsibility for that. Don't just— clone you, Mark, because this is quite rare to get this from a bloke. Well, I'm here. I'm here for Christmas. Everybody gets a Mark. Yeah, that would be interesting, wouldn't it? And it would be interesting to see the reviews. Yeah, how's your Mark doing this week? Oh, he's good. Yeah, I had a good old chat with him, told him what I'm unhappy with and happy with. It's been brilliant. Yeah, it's, it's interesting because, you know, you know, dating's one of those— I don't actually, I don't overly like dating? Because for me, I don't think anybody does though, do they? Because it's like, it's like putting yourself out there and that sort of vulnerable and all the effort in, and then the sort of excitement, but then there's all that effort going into something that might not lead to something ultimately. So it's— and I guess it's— I guess you get more and more jaded the more and more you do it. So I don't think anyone particularly likes being scrutinized, because when you're on a date, you're both trying to work out if you like each other. So you're kind of judging each other. So when you look at it from that element, it's like, you know, it's not actually that great. Um, although it can be really exciting because maybe you'll have an amazing connection, but you don't know. But it's a lot of energy and effort and into something. So I don't know, I think people put a lot of pressure onto it. So I just think, like, I don't really think about dating people. I think about just getting to know them, hanging out with them, being a friend. And if there's some attraction there, then let's, let's just like park that for a minute I think people go too quickly into the kind of, um, the attraction side and wanting to be together, and that kind of codependent relationship can come up. And also maybe they sleep together too quickly. I think when you sleep with somebody as a woman, you create that emotional attachment to them that might, um, create an illusion of the relationship being more than it is. I think people should hold back a little bit on that too, and then actually get to know the person. Like, do I genuinely like this person just as a person, almost like a friend? And then bring the attraction in afterwards. I don't know, I think that just takes off some of that pressure as well, then that, you know, trying to work out if we like each other, can we be in a relationship with each other. It's like, let's just chill, let's just chill a little bit of that. And do we just like each other as a human being first? And do we have things in common? And do we get on? And I think, like, lead on to that later. Yeah, it's like too much, like, I don't think anyone really likes it, like, dating. I've got people, I've got friends that won't go on dates because they're too— they put too much pressure on themselves for the outcome of the day. And I'm like, just don't focus on the outcome if it's going to be a relationship or if that person's going to like you or not. Just focus on having a nice time and spending time and getting to know someone like you're hanging out with a mate, a new friend, and then just let it go somewhere or not go somewhere from there, and that's okay. Just like, take that pressure off, relax a bit. Yeah, it is important. I mean, I must say, like, there's a lot of people from my own understanding of when I've, you know, taken a woman out for dinner and I'm like, you are not ready to date. That woman is not ready to date. There's a lot of people that aren't ready to date. I tell you, it's ridiculous. So it is that— I mean, that's one reason why I don't overly like dating. It's like, oh my goodness, I'm the gentleman, so I'll always pay. And it becomes quite expensive. I'm like, next. Like, what's this? It's like, you know, I know exactly what I'm looking for. I know the woman I'm looking for. And now it's more about— I focus more on the situation that I'm looking for, and then marrying those two things together is really where, where the rubber hits the road. But there is some other things there that you said that I, I just think that it's interesting because, like, when we talked about, you know, a man has to be a man, a woman has to be a woman, um, And as people, we have to be who we are, and we have to accept the people to be who they are. And it is interesting, like the dynamic— I do find it fascinating, the dynamics, right? So you've probably heard about how women are ovens and men are microwaves. Have you heard of that one? No. Okay, so this one is very much— and this is— there's no right or wrong here, but you can see what— why there's challenges in it. And it is actually quite humorous as well. Yeah, you know, man is like a microwave, you know, 2 minutes, fires up and he's done, you know. And, and we're obviously, we're, we're talking a little bit about like intimacy here, you know. So men and men are, rightly or wrongly, because it does depend on the man, I can definitely vouch for that. It's like, you know, men have a reputation where like 2-minute, 2-minute wonder, right? So it's like, that's where the microwave comes from, fire really quickly, we're, we're ready. You know, you put that dial on the microwave and it's already starting to cook from second one, right? Woman, oven, put her on, she takes time to warm up. She does. But you know what? Once she's lit, she's lit for a good few hours, right? And so the woman's being the woman, the man's being the man. There's no right or wrong here, but you can see how, okay, so 2 minutes, he's ready. Which is why when you talked about how sometimes people sleep with each other too quickly, You know, you've got— you have that, that dynamic of where, you know, the man, the man is much more, you know, ready. He's already in that, in that space where a woman takes time. And the other part of this, which I think really is interesting, is in order for a man to feel loved, he needs, he needs the physical, right? Whereas a woman won't be physical until she feels loved, in most cases. Of course, there's exceptions for both because we're beautiful human beings, but But generally speaking, it's like, you know, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Which is why I think sometimes when the chemistry is intense, it is hard to be able to keep yourself cool and calculated and together and thinking, yes, you know, this woman has an amazing body, she has a, she has a great chest, she has a beautiful face, you know, she wears her hair beautifully. And these are all the things that, you know, excite a man and make him go, oh, you know. And then You know, a woman— I realize that one of the most attractive things for a woman, uh, with a man is his mind, you know. And I, and I'm not saying this to try it because you should never manipulate this situation, because that's, I think, the concern here. But if you want to make love to a woman, you've got to make love to her mind first, you know. That for me is key. And some men just don't have the ability and the consciousness, or even the awareness. They may not have ever even have heard of this, but it's so true. You want— you wanna— you wanna wow a woman, you gotta— you gotta get into her brain. You know what, you gotta honor her brain more than you honor her body. It's crazy how many guys are just like, oh, you look beautiful, and it— and it's— and it's partly because that's the way that we are. We are visual. But, uh, but I realized that that's where the men separate themselves from the boys. It's It's being conscious of saying, you know, this is, this is the man that I need to be in order to attract the woman that I need. But we focus so much on what we want from the other, and that's really another part of this as well. Keep working on yourself. Again, going back to self-leadership, keep working on you, own you, know you. In doing that, man, you become the most attractive, desirable person on the planet when you know who you are. When you know what you're not, when you're in that place of just understanding and enlightenment, that is when, that is when things start to happen for you. But if you go into a relationship with need and lack, that's when it gets a little ugly, a bit, a little bit, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna stink, and, and people are going to pick up on that that are conscious to the level of what you want in a relationship. You know, I think you use that, the, the word, the defining word, their need. Because if people are going into something for need, there is no need in love. If you're just loving someone and giving and receiving love, there's no need in that. And I think, like you mentioned before, you've been on dates with people and you could tell instantly that they weren't ready for a relationship because there's healing. And I think sometimes people go out and they want to date someone because they think that's going to bring them happiness. And it's, it's back to that word need. I need to be in a relationship because then when I have someone, then I'll be loved, then I'll be happy. And it's almost you're putting the power and the responsibility of your happiness externally onto another person. And it's so they're looking for that relationship to fix them and heal them, basically, in essence. And then when that person doesn't do that, they then feel let down and make that person wrong because that person hasn't behaved in a way that they need them to behave in order for them to feel right. Whereas if they just take it right back to the healing and take that time out, and work on themselves and do that inner work, I think then once they really love themselves, then you should start looking for a relationship. I think that's similar to the work that you do with the self-leadership. I do similar work with my clients as well. We'll take it right back to the beliefs and stuff and clear them out and heal that trauma, that inner trauma that's basically making us attract in the wrong person or any person that would, you know, give them attention or or, you know, give them that, that need that they're looking to be fulfilled, which is actually really kind of toxic and the opposite of what they actually really need and want. What they really need is to love themselves and accept themselves and heal, and then they'll attract in the right person because they'll be in that better space, better energetic space, and they'll know exactly what they want. I mean, you were talking before about situations. I think that's really key as well because it's not just having a person who loves you to do stuff. If you want to make sure that you both got the same kind of goals and you've got the outlooks and you want to create the same life together, and that each other's situations blend together and work as well. Like you were saying about, you know, when you're dating someone who's got kids, like you've got your kids at the weekend and they're free weekends. You say, I don't have kids, but I've dated people who've got kids with somebody else. And the issue I've had with the situations that that's led to is that the ex has not liked it when they've moved on to me. And that, that's created a situation, and the ex has come along and destroyed the relationship and stopped them seeing their kids and used the kids and stuff as a weapon to break up the relationship. They were jealous that their ex was dating me. Or maybe they do it with any woman, but that's just— that was just my experience. And it was really awful. And I said, well, she's obviously afraid, so I'll go have a conversation with her. Happy to, just to let her know that I'm not a threat to her livelihood or whatever it is she's afraid of losing by you moving on to someone. I'm more than happy to do that and sit with somebody and work through that with them. I think that's a, that's a, you know, an intelligent thing to do. But the guy was just like completely in fear, and I'm like, oh, interesting, probably not the right person. This situation is not right for anyone. And, and there's different dynamics, I think, in relationships as well. It's not this person you're dating, it's the people in their lives as well. So it's like there's a whole— I think, I think everyone really needs to do that healing so that they can then not only create the relationships they want, but so, you know, if you've got kids with somebody else, you need to do that healing yourself so that you can be okay with them moving on as well as yourself moving on. I think there's all these different dynamics. So I absolutely love this topic of healing, and it's not just in relationships as well. If you heal, then you move forward in your business and your life and you create things. And everything that you want in your life, but you've got to go back to that healing, I think. So I think you're spot on by saying that. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, we're individual, and, and how I show up— I'm sure I show up as Mark Sefton regardless of the situation and regardless of the environment, you know. I'm, I'm always myself. And, and to, to be in that space where you're just you and you don't have to kind of water yourself down or, or amplify yourself up And of course, there's wisdom in, because I think some people are not good at this. They don't know when to say what and when it's actually more wise to be quiet in certain situations. It's still yourself, you know, and, you know, people say, Mark, you've got many, many hats. And I say, yeah, I wear many hats, but it's the same head. And I think that's really important, you know, that you don't lose sight of self, but you have the wisdom to know actually when, when can I, uh, you know, express myself like unhinged, and actually when is it better for me when less is actually more, you know. And I, I think, you know, everything does come down to our relationship with self, which is where I spend a lot of, a lot of work, you know. And, you know, I can actually say without it sounding like egotistical, but I love Mark Sefton. And I, I haven't always loved myself. And I say that in a healthy way, not in an indulgent, uh, way, because I always see the difference between confidence and arrogance. I always find that arrogance elevates self, but in doing so deflates others, whereas confidence, it elevates self but it elevates everybody else as well, like a rising tide will, will lift all boats. And the way that I've been able to love myself actually helps me love other people. Everybody is deserving of love. And yes, of course, you know, because we're human, we don't have perfect love. And it does seem that some people are easier to love than others, that, that's for sure. You know, I, I think that, you know, the more that you can work on self, the, the more attracted and the more of a, of a channel and a blessing that you're going to be to other people. Yeah, I agree. And I love that definition between arrogance and confidence because it can obviously, it can, you know, be misconstrued. And people sometimes think when someone's being confident when actually they're being arrogant and vice versa. So I love that definition. That's really good. Thanks. Yeah, and I think, yeah, everyone, and I, I think that people are sometimes scared to go down that journey of self-discovery as well because they're afraid sometimes that if they change, that it might— the people that are in their life might then abandon them or, or, you know, not accept them. Because people don't like change. Like, I've changed and grown as a person over the last 20, 30 years, and I've noticed that in doing that, people have fallen out of my life because they've not liked how I've changed, because I'm, I'm not still that person that's maybe, you know, being in, in the box that they want to put me in. So I think sometimes people can often be scared of that change and self-reflection as well because they're afraid that that's going to happen. But I think I'd probably say that if anyone's feeling like that, then just do that inner work, do that healing, and the people that fall away were probably never really meant to be there, you know, anyway. It's time for them, it's time, it's okay to let them go. And if people don't like your change, that's their trigger and that's their healing that needs to happen. You can't hold yourself back just because of the people might not be happy with you changing and moving on and being happy and bettering yourself. So if you're, you know, if you think your family or friends might be whole, you know, might not like that you want to go off and change, then that's not— that doesn't matter. That don't, you know, that's on them, that's not on you. I would say make those changes, work with people like Mark and myself or whoever, or read the books and do the work and, you know, and live that life because you've only got this one life, right? You want to be happy, you want to like live your best life and sod what everyone else thinks, quite frankly. It's true, you know, you just got to do it and go for it. Yeah, yeah, it's very, it's very true. I think a lot, a lot of life's challenges are solved by the way we frame things and the narrative that we tell ourselves. I think I learned a lot about that with working with a psychologist. So when somebody leaves your life, in some ways they're doing you a favor, because when they leave your life, they're creating space for somebody new to come in. Yeah, right. And, and that's the, that's the narrative. Otherwise you talk about, this person left me, I've been abandoned, I'm not good enough, I've been rejected, right? Which is often the narrative we say. But actually, if we, if we actually change what we're saying and actually say, actually, because I've always been a big believer, right, especially in romantic relationships, if a woman doesn't want to be with me, then I'm better off without her. Because why would I want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with me? Like, and that goes for everybody. If a man don't want to be with you, then you're better off without him, because you deserve to be with a man who wants to be with you, right? So it's like, the way that we see things is so important. We all have these experiences, we've all been rejected, we've all heard no, uh, and yet the people that, that continue to move forward are the ones that have the ability to frame things the right way— not being deluded and not being dismissive, but equally not being so kind of absorbed by a negative situation that they bury themselves. So for me, it's like, that's really important that, you know, when people leave our life, they've given— they've done us a favor because it creates that space for somebody new to come in. So thank them, you know, and that's the right frame. Yeah, I love that. And I think also, um, Alex's thing where you let them go with love— you don't necessarily send them love because it's not about sending them what they need, it's about you creating space for yourself. So let that person go with love, and you feel that love for yourself so you don't hold on any kind of resentment or, um, have like that sort of like hurt that might be lingering and that feeling of rejection. Just let it go with love. And I think obviously there might be some healing and some deeper to go on within that, but I think just making that choice to say it's okay that this, this person has gone, I think that, yeah, that creates that space and opens up your heart so that you don't kind of shut yourself, shut yourself down and get into that whirlwind and whirlpool of pain. And yeah, they've left me, like that you're using the language, then say like, they've left me, they've abandoned me. They haven't done it to you, they've done it for themselves. They've moved on for themselves. It's not actually about you what they've done. They've just moved on for their own happiness. You're making it about you because you're feeling that loss. But again, I think, yeah, like you said, that if when somebody leaves, it creates space for someone else to come in. And when you do that healing work and you move on, the people that do come in that replace the people who have left, they're just so much more aligned for you and your happiness and what you want with your life. Like, if you want a better life and you want to do more, you know, and move in a different direction, you've almost got to become a different person to do that because you've got to start doing and being and behaving in different ways to create new things in your life. So the people that come into your life support that may well be new, and that's okay because that's how it's meant to be. Because you— what's that saying? Is that you become, um, the 5 people that you're surrounded by the most. And if, if you look at your sort of 5 people you hang out with the most and think, is this, is this what I aspire to be like? Is this what I want for myself? And if the answer to that is no, then you might need to change that up a little bit. You don't need to get rid of them completely, but you might just need some new ones as well. And that's all right, you know. Totally, totally agree. Love that. I think it was Jim Rohn, um, that talked about the 5 people that you associate with is the kind of the overall kind of like blueprint of what you'll become. Um, and it's true, you know. I know, I like you, know a lot of people, and yet in terms of like real friends, count them on one hand. Like, I have 5, and I had 4 for ages, and I had this space, and I was like, come on, it's open to somebody. It's open to somebody. A little pinky available. Exactly. A little Mark Sefton pinky. You know, it's there. Like, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Like, it's interesting because I've got some of the best people in my life that I'm grateful for. And that I fight for and I give for, but also they fight for me and give for me, you know. And that's— I think I find friendships easier to navigate than, than romantic relationships, if I'm honest. Like, it's quite interesting for me. Like, you married at 21. I was married for 15 years, um, you know. I've had a couple of relationships since, since then, um, and it's interesting because it's like, you know, one thing that I really aspire to do is to really show my children what a loving, healthy relationship really looks looks like. I want them to see their dad loving a woman and that woman loving their dad, you know, and showing a real good example of that, you know. And there's been certain moments where that's happened, and nothing, nothing too detrimental, uh, but nothing that I can say that I've— I feel like I've achieved that yet. And that's something that I want to do, you know. I want— you know, I came from a broken family. I was desperate that I wasn't gonna do that and end up, you know, going down that route, you know. Um, but that's still within my heart. Like, I, I've taught my kids actually that if you're not happy in something, then absolutely, if you've tried everything, if you've had counseling, if you've tried to work through challenges and actually you just identify it's at the end of the road, then I've shown them actually there is times when to call it a day, and the courage of that. Because divorce gets such a bad press, and for the right reasons, because it is devastating, it is painful, it does cause destruction. It isn't just you and, and the partner that gets hurt. There is the children, there's the wider family, there's friendships. It does— you can't avoid that. That's just the way it is. But the one thing that is really important is much better uh, to end something that isn't making you happy, uh, rather than staying in that just to appease everybody else because everybody thinks that, oh, because there's children involved, you've got to stay at it. And yet you're rotting inside, you're not happy, and neither are they, you know. And actually, you have the courage and the ability to say, actually, this is it. So while I'm not trying to advocate divorce, because I think you should have counseling Every relationship has problems. You should work at it. You should do everything that you can. But you should also reach a point that if you have done those things, and it's absolutely okay to say, you know what, this is done. And that's everything. I think one of the things I love about John Maxwell, he has a book called Sometimes You Win, Sometimes You Learn. And that, for me, again, it goes back to narrative, goes back to the way we frame things. We either get what we want out of this situation or we don't get what we want, but we learn something from it. And that's beautiful. I love that. I love the title of that book as well. That's really good. And I like what you're saying. Like, I guess people do sometimes stay because they're worried about the kids, but kids are resilient. And I think it's much better that you have two, um, parents happy separately than two together miserable, because the kids are going to pick up on that. And that's not— as you said before, you want to teach your kids about a loving relationship. And show them what that is. So they've got a model of a relationship so that when they go off and have a relationship, they know how it— how one is. So I love that. Um, and also you said the word like you, you came from a broken, a broken family, and that's such a societal thing, isn't it? That if a, you know, if, if a family splits up, it's a broken family. I think we need to change those labels that we put on things because it's not broken, it's just it's just people separating, but still, they can still be very loving and very much whole. You don't have to be in, you know, that couple doesn't have to still be in a relationship for the, for the love in the family to still be whole. You can still be separate and bring other people in, have other relationships, and it can still be a whole family. So I think maybe we need to start creating a narrative where, and changing those labels, because we're sort of seeing that if a relationship breaks down, it's somehow it's failed, that we've failed. And we haven't failed because not every relationship is, I don't think, meant to be forever. Like, you know, some you learn, some you win, you know. And that reason, season, lifetime, and people come into our things— I think we need to change those labels as well. It's not a broken family, it's not a failed relationship, it's just some, you know, it's just experiences in our life and people have come in and all of it is okay. And it just takes that pressure off when we learn something and we grow and evolve and change. And it's okay if every relationship we've had is not still, you know, happening in our life because, you know, we, we grow and change and move on and maybe someone else is going to come in and vice versa. And I think we need to take that pressure off and that these, they're really damaging kind of negative labels that are put on broken families, you know, failed relationships. And I think sometimes people can stay in them because they're afraid of that as well, and that failure. And I think if we start changing these labels up and we'll talk about this openly, that will help people with their healing and moving on as well. So I like that you brought that up. I like the thing I like about what you just said as well as what you're saying is the fact that you are very mindful and sensitive to language, which I really like, love, because I pick up on words and I like the fact that you called that out. When I said broken, because that's, that's absolutely right, that the words that we, that we speak, you know, they do create worlds. And they, you know, that's that stupid saying of, you know, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. That's a load of bollocks, you know. That needs that, that, that, you know, we were taught that. I was taught that as a kid, you know, that, you know. And of course, actions will always speak louder than words. However, words aren't cheap. They have the ability to build and they have the ability to destroy, you know, especially over ourselves. So, you know, I— that gets me fired up and pumped because it's like, it is right. We do need to challenge again the narrative of what we see and the words that we associate with us. And I love that you've got that radar as well because not many people have. So that kind of excites me about you, the fact that you, you You also have that little antenna that is scanning and you just do it naturally. And it's almost like, you know, I said it like an everyday sentence, but for you it was like, wah, wah, wah, like a siren going off. Like, I love that. That got me pumped. It's like, uh-oh, that's the coach in me coming out. Yeah. Right. So tell us, you've got some books, haven't you, out? So tell us a little bit about your books. Yeah, so my latest one is Mark of a Man. Mark of a Man, love that. Mark of a Man, play on words there. Yeah, exactly. Now it's interesting because actually most people that have read it have actually been women, uh, so even though my other books are gender neutral, there's a number of reasons why I wrote Mark of a Man. I mean, first of all, I always find writing cathartic, so there's something in there for me. Because I just enjoy, you know, it helps me heal, it helps me process. There's also not a lot out there for men, you know. When I think of magazines, there's only really Men's Health, you know. Women have like loads of magazines, loads of groups, you know, whether it's on Facebook or, or in real life. You already said at the start, you know, that there's still— even though men are starting to talk and there's campaigns now and you're seeing, you know, different groups around mental health and different things around prostate cancer and testicle cancer and all that good stuff that's happening. It's, it's not just about getting men to talk, but it's about getting men to talk about the right things. And so I wanted to, I wanted to create a book which I do talk a lot about my thoughts through the lens of my divorce, though it isn't for people that are divorced, but I just use some of the narrative, my experience, so people can really grasp that which I'm getting at here. Um, but a lot of that is about the importance of energy and what energy we're giving off as men. I talk a lot about emotions. I talk a lot about what emotions men feel and the emotions that I felt when I went through my divorce in particular. And I talk about how do you acknowledge an emotion and how do you actually build a relationship with it so you understand why it's there and what it really means and what you're supposed to do with that emotion. Because again, as men, we don't— but I'm a man that I, I felt every emotion. I know exactly why I feel what I do, and I can tell you why I feel it, and it'll tell me something. You know, I have that— I mean, I'm at that conscious level. And then I talk a lot about expectations of being a man and what a man really should look like And I do challenge men in what I hear men talk about around, you know, a table, and the way that they comment about women that some women are attuned to and some aren't. And, and it's not good and it isn't healthy. And we all as men need to take accountability for both our thoughts and our, and our words in terms of how we see. And, and you are seeing much better examples of, of men, but you're still seeing men in power that are still not behaving and articulating the way that they should. So I do— Mark of a Man is very much about helping men become better men, um, and it's a journey of, of that. And I've had a lot of women, uh, buy this book, uh, want to do podcasts with me about it because they work with men and actually they think it's quite rare for a man to be able to articulate, you know, himself. And, and let's just be honest, sometimes a woman can say something to a man and he'll reject it, but if a man says it to a man, he'll accept it. And it goes the same way, you know. I could say something to you, it wouldn't land the way that I would want it to, and you'll dismiss it. And then a woman can say the same thing, and I could almost say, do you mean I said that to you a year ago? And you'll be like— and it's landed totally differently because there's no there's no question of, you know, motive or whatever it is. It's just, you know, sometimes we just have to hear it from, you know, from our— you know, I always talk about speak the language of the person you want to attract. Sometimes we have to, we have to hear that from, from the right person. So that's Mark of a Man. And, um, that sounds brilliant. I like how you're saying that you're talking about emotions and getting guys to recognize it and acknowledge it, because men I think are often taught that emotions are not okay somehow, like it's a weakness and they're less of a man if they have those emotions. I think sometimes men just hide them and kind of put on a brave front. So I think this is really great that you're opening up the space and, and allowing men to like know that it's okay to do that, because women want men to do this. So this is great. So I love being vulnerable because vulnerability, actually what I find is that it enables you to be more vulnerable which then merely means there's greater trust, which means you don't have to guess. It means there's intimacy. For me, honesty is the highest form of intimacy. You really want to be more intimate and close with your partner, with those that are around you, then honesty has to be at the forefront. If you're honest, it is the most beautiful thing that makes you want to keep that person close, because you just think, you know, I've got nothing to fear here. Because if they're willing to show me and tell me things that may hurt me but, but are rooted in, in honesty and in love, that is a beautiful place to be. I think that's the definition. It's not just honesty, it's honesty with love. And on this, I've got to say that's it. We've run out of time, Mark. I could just keep chatting to you for hours. Like, we've just been having a chat. It's been great. I have to get you back on, talk about stuff another time. But, um, thank you for listening. This has been Mark Sefton. He's absolutely fantastic. Um, where can people find you? Uh, probably marksefton.com, and it is S-E-P-H-T-O-N. Uh, fabulous. And I'll put all his social media and stuff on my social media so you can check him out and feel free to fully stalk him there. Um, and this has been the Eat Love Do Show. I've been Janine Newbury. Thank you for listening. 9 AM and 9 PM every day all week, and see you next