In this engaging episode of All Things Autism, Anna Kennedy sits down with Emma Kaye, a specialist in play therapy and special educational needs. Recorded live from Covent Garden during half-term week, the conversation covers Emma’s journey from nursery nurse to fully qualified play therapist, and how play therapy can transform the wellbeing of autistic children. Emma shares her integrative holistic approach using creative resources like clay, paint, puppets, and water to help children externalise anxieties and develop crucial play skills that don’t come naturally to those on the spectrum.
Beyond the therapy room, Emma and Anna discuss practical strategies families can implement at home during school holidays and everyday outings. From visual preparation and social stories to portable sensory toolkits filled with fidget toys, snacks, and ear defenders, the episode offers actionable advice for parents navigating life with autistic children—particularly those waiting for diagnosis. Emma also reveals the sobering reality of diagnosis waiting times in Kent: a shocking three-year wait that can feel devastating for families seeking early intervention.
Whether you’re a parent seeking support, a professional interested in play therapy training, or someone supporting autistic family members, this episode provides valuable insights into the power of play as a therapeutic tool and practical tips for making everyday life more manageable during half-term and beyond.
Main Topics
Play therapy is a fully accredited therapeutic approach requiring several years of training and hundreds of hours of therapeutic support, helping children on the spectrum and those experiencing trauma or bereavement
Diagnosis waiting times in Kent currently stand at 3 years, creating significant challenges for families seeking early intervention and support
Children on the autistic spectrum struggle with play skills due to executive functioning difficulties, making play therapy a valuable tool to help them practice and develop these skills
Practical strategies for supporting autistic children at home include visual preparation, social stories, portable sensory toolkits, and using strong sensory inputs like specific snacks and fidget toys
Creating discreet coping strategies—such as earplugs that look like phone headphones or sunglasses for bright environments—helps autistic teenagers manage sensory needs without drawing unwanted attention
Becoming a fully qualified play therapist requires a degree followed by a 2-year certificate and diploma course, costing approximately £10,000 in total training expenses
Fast-track passes and advance planning with venues can significantly reduce anxiety and overwhelm when taking autistic children on outings during half-term holidays
Full TranscriptHello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism. We're live and we're in Covent Garden and it's half-term w...▼
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism. We're live and we're in Covent Garden and it's half-term week. Oh my word. So all you mums are busy bees trying to think of things to do with your sons or your daughters. Angelo's on half-term. We're planning on going to Middlesbrough, to the Northeast where my mum lives, my dad and my sister. So we've started our social story this week to prepare Angelo for the long 5-hour drive. 5 hours driving, and usually there's quite a bit of traffic going into Middlesbrough, and hopefully the weather will be good. How awful has the weather been this last weekend? We were quite lucky, I suppose, in London. It was very windy, very wet, but watching the news and seeing all those poor families flooded and, oh, I just can't even imagine. Can you imagine, um, someone on the spectrum as well having to deal with that? That's what I always think about in extreme weathers, how do people cope who've got children, um, or adults who are autistic, um, so very, very stressful. On Sunday I went to, um, a dance competition and I loved it. It was Strictly Hillingdon and I met a young gentleman who was 14 years old and he started dancing when he was 8. He's autistic and he's been following me on social media and so we had a little chat. Oh, he was amazing. He did the cha-cha-cha and he did the waltz. I was very, very amazed at what he had achieved in such a short space of time. So my guest today is Emma Kay. So Emma is a freelance special educational needs and disability teacher, a trainer and consultant, and a play therapist. Um, thank you and welcome. Thank you very much, it's lovely to be here. So, um, thanks for coming on half term. So your family, I believe, are on walkabout in London. Yep, so I've brought my whole family down with me to London. So they've gone down to Madame Tussauds today. We've got a show this evening. Oh, have you? What are you gonna go and see? We're gonna go and see Six, the musical. I haven't heard that one. What's that one about then? Oh, how about Henry VIII's wives, so. Oh, wow. No, I haven't heard that one. Well, okay then. So I hope you enjoy it. So you've come all the way from Kent. Before we go into what you do, so tell me a little bit about who is Emma. Okay, so I'm a 46-year-old woman from Kent. I was born— actually, I was born in Kent. I was born in Dover, but my parents ran hotels, so we moved around quite a lot. We went to Bournemouth, Devon, Portsmouth, all over the place. So how was that for you growing up with them, obviously making friends? And did you have to keep making new groups of friends all the time? Yeah, actually it was really hard. So I'd meet some friends and then we'd move. Oh. Yeah, so actually that was quite difficult, yeah. So, but we kind of settled in Kent when I was about 11. Okay. So my parents have always been sort of self-employed and run businesses, and then I kind of met my husband when I was in my 20s. Okay. And we got married and we had 2 children. Oh, and how old are they? So I've got Ellie, who's 17, and Stefan, who's 13. Teenagers in the house. Oh yeah, don't I know it. So never boring then. Definitely not boring, no. And then, so I trained as like a nursery nurse when I was 16, worked in nurseries, then went to train as a teacher, then went and trained as a special needs teacher. Okay. Worked in children's centres as the teacher there, and then actually recently in the last couple of years I trained as a play therapist. Okay, so that's interesting. So had you heard of autism before you got into the teacher training world? Not really, and to be honest, with my teaching degree, I think I probably had one lecture in about 3 years on special needs. Oh wow, only one? Yeah. And how long did that last? For probably about a couple of hours, and actually I don't really remember much reference to autism. And then obviously when I started teaching, I started supporting children in school with autism. Oh, okay. Was that in Kent? Yep, that was in Kent, yeah. So what's the waiting like in Kent? 'Cause I'm very interested in diagnosis and I always like to ask people, how long do people have to wait for a diagnosis, whether they're a child or an adult? So do you know what, how long the wait time is? I do. And it's bad. It's actually at the moment in Kent, it's a 3-year wait. 3 years before you get seen? Yep. Oh my God. That is a long time in a child's life. Yeah. 'Cause I'm supporting kind of quite a few families at the moment where they're sort of pre-diagnosis or they're concerned their child might be on the spectrum. Okay. And it's quite actually devastating to say to them there's potentially a 3-year wait that you're gonna have to— Oh, frustrating. Very. Because obviously if they're reading books about autism, they talk about early intervention and how crucial it is for our children. So 3 years, that's a long time in a child's life. And obviously you're not knowing whether your child is on the spectrum or not or what it is that you're dealing with, if you like, behaviour-wise. So very, very frustrating. So you're a play therapist. So what does that actually mean for people listening in? Their children have just been diagnosed, or they might think, I might like to see a play therapist, but what do you actually do and what, what are the benefits for our children? Okay, so I trained with Play Therapy UK. So there's only kind of two main organisations that you can be a fully fledged play therapist, because some people say, I 'play therapist,' but they've kind of done a day's course. This is like several years of training, several hundred hours of therapeutic support with children. Okay. So, um, at the moment I'm working in two schools in Kent that have bought my service in. Right. So they, they are seeing the benefits to children's mental health and well-being. Okay. Um, so what I do is I work what's called an integrative holistic approach. Wow, that's a lovely word. I know, love a lot. Um, and what it means is basically is I I have a whole toolkit of resources. And what does that mean? Screwdriver? Hammer? That could be part of it, but it's mainly things like clay, paint, dressing up stuff, puppets, sand, water. So you have to carry that around with you wherever you go? Well, yeah, I kind of— luckily the schools I'm in, I kind of have it set up. Oh, okay. And I go in and I work with the children for 40 minutes, and it can be a mixture of non-directive and directive. Okay. And I work with what's called, um, Virginia Axline principles. And what does that mean? So basically, like a framework. Okay. So basically, at the heart of it is the child, right? And the child— I'm there for the child. I'm there to build up a relationship with them. But play therapy helps those children not only on the autistic spectrum, but those children that experience trauma, bereavement. Yes, I've heard that. That kind of thing. So what we do is they work with the toolkit, the clay, the water, the paint, to kind of externalise any kind of anxieties, worries, things going on. And what I found with a lot of the children on the spectrum is what they're doing is kind of trying things out. Right, okay. And especially because children on the spectrum struggle with play skills due to them having problems with executive functioning. Okay. And kind of focusing on small detail of things. Yeah, so how— what's the youngest child you've worked with? So in play therapy it's from 4. Okay. The oldest child I've worked with, I support at home, has been 19. Okay, so if you're a parent listening in and you're not getting any services whatsoever and you think, what type of things can I do at home with my son or my daughter to help them, is there any tips that you can give people obviously frustrated and waiting, as you say, 3 years for a diagnosis? Is there something that they can do as well in like in half term? Because obviously, as you know, it's hard work at half term trying to find things for our children to do. So any tips? It is. I mean, my son's on the autistic spectrum and my husband. Okay. So we've obviously come into London. Oh, again, your house is definitely not boring. And what we've had to do is obviously do a lot of planning and preparation. We do lots of things visually. So when we're visiting somewhere like Madame Tussauds today, we'll be looking at kind of what may be there. And we use the term may a lot because if we say, oh, you are going to see this and then it's not there. And then their expectations are not being met. The thing that I see, I drive quite a bit on the A40 past Madame Tussauds and there's always a massive queue. So have they messaged you to say, oh, there's a queue, we're not going in or anything like that? So we've already kind of contacted them ahead. So my husband's going in as my son's carer. They can go through fast track. Brilliant. And what we do is whenever we go out, we normally take like a little toolkit with us. So like a rucksack of resources to help with sensory processing. That's what I do with Angelo when I go out with him, you know, and even things that he likes to eat, like pickled onion Monster Munch that stink. Yeah, any of those strong flavours. So we might have in there, we used to have ear defenders, but obviously now my son's 13, that's so uncool. Although it could be like, They look like earphones and it could look like he's plugged them into his phone or whatever, even though he hasn't, you know what I mean? There's ways of doing things and that's what I've said to my son, like sometimes if he feels the need that he's got to talk to himself, that if he puts his earplugs in, it can look like he's talking on the phone. I have shared this before, but it's a way of not drawing attention to yourself. Exactly. So, okay, so sorry, carry on. So we just have like, he has his phone with his earphones. We have some like, sometimes we have some sunglasses in there and a hat. So if it's too bright, he can access that. Sometimes he might just have like, he has a fiddle toy, but at the moment he's into juggling balls. Oh, okay. Which is quite interesting when we go out. So I even said to him, you know, we can have the hat out and maybe we can make a little bit of money at the same time. Yeah, do a bit of busking. Exactly. You could do a bit of dancing, your husband can do a bit of singing, and your daughter will be walking away from you. Exactly. And we have like, we might just have some snacks snacks in there or that kind of thing. It's just because he's never going to stop having these needs going on, so it's about us providing things to support him to manage. Most definitely. So again, um, so if somebody wants to become a play therapist, what qualifications do you have to have? So you have to obviously have a degree. Okay. And then you go on to do a, um, a kind of a certificate and a diploma in play therapy. Okay. It's over sort of 2 years training and then you have to do therapeutic hours. Okay. And you have to pay for that yourself? Yeah. So what sort of price are you looking at? So the whole course and everything cost me with other things about £10,000. Oh my God, £10,000. Okay, so you definitely need to go busking to pay for that. I know I'm going to get him out juggling, I think, common garden when we get back. So we're going to be chatting a little bit more about what you're doing. So if you're interested in being one of my speakers on women's radio station support supporting women's well-being, talking all things autism, please contact me on the charity website. It's www.annakenedionline.com. Whether you're a mum, whether you're a dad, whether you're a carer, an autistic adult, a grandparent, or a professional, you'd like to talk about the work that you're doing, or you'd just like to chat about services, or whatever it is that you want to share with our community, please contact me. I am booked up now until the end of May with speakers every week. So again, contact me and we can slot you in. If you want to contact me via social media, it's @AnnaKennedy1 on Twitter, Anna Kennedy Online on Facebook, and @AnnaKennedyOBE on Instagram. So we're going to be chatting a little bit more with Emma after the break. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Meg Matthews and I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Join us for a brand new show on Women's Radio Station. It's the Meg's Menopause Show. Yes, for the first time on radio, there's an entire show dedicated to the menopause. A fresh new approach where we inform you of all the choices and treatments that are out there. Supportive and empowering, this is your show. So join us every week with a host of celebrity guests, our very own resident doctor, where we talk about everything menopause. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishcon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women's Radio Station. 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Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation. That's Women's Radio STN or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism. We're live. We're in Covent Garden. And next week it's going to be our celebration of autistic talent coming to Clacton. I'm so proud of being ambassador to Autism Anglia, so next week— I can't believe it's come around so quickly— 1st of March 2020 at the West Cliff— get my teeth in— the West Cliff Theatre, Clacton-on-Sea. The variety show is 6 PM till 10 PM, so if you're interested in coming along to watch the show and support our performers, there's going to be singers, dancers, bands, you name it, we have it. And joining me on stage being the main compare is going to be Aston Avery, one of my charity ambassadors. So we do a monthly show on Gateway Radio called All Things Autism in Essex, and he's going to be for the first time being a main compare with me on stage in Clacton. We are excited, and we're excited for our performers. So if you want to come along, tickets are still available. Check out Autism Anglia website or go on Westcliff Theatre, Clacton. You can buy tickets online. My guest today is Emma Kay, freelance special educational needs and disability teacher, trainer and consultant, play therapist, and mum to a young man on the autism spectrum. So did you become involved with autism because of your son, or did that happen afterwards? I suppose, yeah, it probably was 'cause of him. I was interested before. Mm-hmm. Um, but he was diagnosed when he was 5. OK. And now he's 13. Right. And then he was diagnosed with dyslexia and dyscalculia a couple of years after that. OK. And then my husband was diagnosed at 47. Wow, how was that for him? Actually, it was a really positive thing. OK. Because it began to make sense of why some things were difficult, why his childhood he struggled with some things. So actually, it's been a really, really good thing. So was that after his son? So was he thinking, "Oh, that's me. Oh, that's me." I think it was more like I was thinking, "That's him. That's him." So has it changed your relationship, if you don't mind me asking? You don't have to answer. Yeah, actually it's got much better 'cause I think I understand him a bit more. Oh, okay. Instead of thinking he's being difficult or, "Oh God, he's grumpy," or he's not very sociable, I kind of get, "Oh, okay, now I know where it's coming from." Oh, okay. So yeah, it's really made it much, much better. And does he get on well with his son? Yeah, yeah, because they're very similar. Um, they have their interests. Okay. Um, my husband's tends to be whatever it is at that time. So, uh, and then my son's had an interest of bearded dragons for the last year. Lovely. So we know a lot about that in our house. You got any around your house? We have. Like dinosaurs in my house, it's like a museum. We ended up getting a bearded dragon after 9 months of him constantly going on about it. Oh, okay. Um, but then obviously he moves on to his next interest, so. Oh, okay then. So that's, that's, so obviously you know a lot about people on the spectrum, so you've seen it from your husband's point of view and obviously from your son's point of view, and then teaching children at school, so you're getting it from all angles really. So why did you set up the SEN Trainer business? So what made you want to do that? Is it something that you had planned for a little while, or was it like a a spur of the moment thing? It's kind of, it come out of the blue a little bit. So I was working for the local authority in Kent as a specialist teacher. So I used to go out and advise nurseries, schools about how to support children with special needs in the classroom. So like an outreach support? Yeah, so I was employed by like a special needs school and I would go outreach and observe the child, offer strategies and support and training. But I just got frustrated 'cause I had such huge caseload. Did I think we were having a chat, um, just before we came here, having a coffee, and I think you said something like 90 to 100 on your caseload. Is that every week? So that would be, I'd have 90 to 100 children on my caseload. So by the time I saw them, it was once a term. Oh, right. So I'd go in once a term, observe, advise the school or nursery how to support the child, and then I obviously wouldn't see them for their term. Would that frustrate you? Very. Um, and especially because I had to rely on the school or nursery actually putting in place what was recommended. Okay. So I kind of thought, and I felt like I'm going to advise but I'm not actually working directly with the children. Okay, so you can't see how it's been implemented and how it's panning out, if it's working or not. So, and so after, well, about 18 months ago, I spoke to my husband, said, you know, I'm thinking about leaving, setting up my own business. I gave him lots of time to prepare prepare for that. It's a bit scary setting up your own business because you're thinking, right, okay, everything's down to me now. It was very scary. It still is a bit, to be honest. Um, yeah, so I set up— so I do like, um, training for schools, nurseries, organisations. So, um, I've got coming up some training for some children's homes, okay, and some health visitors, right? Um, I've done other organisations as well. Um, a lot of my training is around Autism, but other areas of special needs. Okay, so is it just in the Kent area? At the moment, yeah. Okay, so if someone's interested in thinking, oh, I would like some training, um, how do they contact you? So they can go through my Facebook page, which is The SEND Trainer. The SEND Trainer. Um, Instagram is The SEND Trainer, or they can email me on e.kaye@hotmail.co.uk. Just repeat that again, just in case someone's scrambling looking for a pen, like it is in my house. So it's e.kaye@hotmail.co.uk. Okay, so they contact you and then you will be able to see if you can make an appointment to come and see them. So if there's a person at home, might be a mum and just says, I'm not getting anything at the minute, can you come and meet me and see my daughter or see my son and give me some advice? Is that something that you could do? So I do home visits. I work with children sometimes at home for a session of sort of 6 sessions around emotional regulation. So what does that mean again? Because everyone's got these like terminologies that, but if you're a parent and your son or your daughter's been diagnosed, you're thinking, well, what is that? What does that mean? Well, I think what happens is we know children on the spectrum kind of struggle around high anxiety because our world is unpredictable. Yeah. And what they try to do is control it. And this can look like they're very non-compliant at times. So what I do is a lot of the work I work with children is about teaching them about how their brain works. About how they go into fight-flight response, how their body responds to anxiety. Because sometimes when you're younger, that's quite scary. You know, you're feeling all this anxiety in your body, like tummy ache or headache, or your heart beats faster, and you think you're ill. So I speak to children a lot about, you know, that this is anxiety and anxiety can be managed. And we do lots of strategies around deep breathing. Mindfulness. We do activities where they kind of make a brain out of Play-Doh and we look at the different parts of the brain. That's a good idea. We make volcanoes out of clay to show our anger and how our anger spills out of our body. Okay. And then we do a lot of stuff around emotional regulation. So this is what I've done with my children a lot. So what I'm doing, I'd advise parents, is you name it when you see it. Okay. So you're saying to them like, you know, I'd say to my son, "Oh, Stefan, I can see that you're getting quite anxious. I can see that because your heart is beating faster, your face is red, and you're moving your body more. Let me help you with that." Okay, and is he pretty good at responding quickly? He's brilliant. His emotional regulation is fantastic. I could do with a bit of that. He teaches his dad, to be honest. But yeah, I think it's about when children kind of know how anxiety presents. They know that actually it's their brain that triggers their body, right? And actually they're sometimes not in control of that. Okay. That what they can do is maybe reduce anxiety by doing some strategies to regulate it, that they're in control. Okay, so can you name a couple of strategies that parents again might be listening in, or autistic adults might be listening and think, what can I do? So best thing to do is to— you've got a nerve in your body which is linked to your kind of reptilian brain, the fight-flight bit. Okay. The nerve is called the vagus nerve. Okay. And it's the biggest nerve in the body, and that's what stimulates your heart to beat faster, your lungs to go quicker, you know, all of those things. So in order to regulate the vagus nerve, you need to do deep belly breathing. Okay. So you kind of go in through the nose, you hold the breath if you're over the age of 7 for a couple of seconds. If you're not, you kind of breathe in and then you push the breath out, exhale, but push it all the way down to the belly. Okay. So it's about teaching children. So do you push it out slowly or quickly? Slowly. Okay. So you kind of go in, you go, and then— Okay, got you. So that belly needs to expand. Right. So you need to get the children to make sure their belly sticks out. Okay. And another way, a nice way of doing that is like you get them to lay on the floor, you put a cuddly toy in their tummy and you say, this is your cuddle buddy. Right. And you go through the nose and then you make your cuddle buddy move by pushing your breath out to your belly and making it move out. So how many, how many breaths you have to do, or is it until you feel relaxed? Yeah, and what you do is you can, you kind of say to children, check in with your body. So how's your heart? Is it beating fast or just right? Okay. And if they say it's fast, you go, we need to do more. Do you do this to your husband? Lie down, put your cuddle buddy on your stomach. Don't you give my secrets away now. Sorry, sorry, I just couldn't resist. And then what you do is you help them kind of, and then if you say, oh, how's your 'How are you feeling now?' They might say, 'I'm feeling calmer.' You go, 'You calmed your body down. You're in control.' Right. Obviously with my 13-year-old, he wouldn't be happy with that. No. But we just do deep breathing or we just focus on something, a bit of grounding. So we might look at things like, we're gonna look at 5 things we can see, 4 things we can touch, 3 things we can smell. So we're refocusing the brain. I just saw that actually recently. Somebody shared an article about that, so I have heard that. I've never heard that before. It's pretty good. It's like, it's the brain triggers the body. Yeah. So what we have to teach children is, okay, we can manage those things. Yeah. And we're going to give you some strategies to do that. Okay, some really good tips there. So you're going to be writing an article for me for my charity website. So if you've missed any of the tips, Emma will be putting it down in an article on our charity website. If again, you want some more information about autism, we have our Autism Expo that's coming up at Brunel University. On the 29th of March, so not long to go. We have speakers, we have Dr. Dagmara, who was one of the speakers on Women's Radio Station, talking about sleep. We've got a new lady that's just actually come on board. She is going to be talking about her experience of autism, and that's Janet Wilcock. She's a fantastic ambassador. We've got Dr. Carol Stott talking about autism spectrum condition and the criminal justice system. We've got Matthew and Callum, who are father and son, and they are rappers, but also the father is diagnosed on the spectrum and his son is dyslexic. We've got Julian— sorry, Juliana Weta, who's a special therapist teacher. Laurie Morgan, who has also been diagnosed on the spectrum, and she talks about how it's changed her life. And the last speaker is Jolie Williams, and she talks about gaslighting and thriving as an autistic adult. Again, it's www.ako.org. Autismexpo.co.uk. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. 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Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness, or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turn2us.org.uk. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station can give voice to your brand with a wide range of sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs. We can tailor your experience for you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com. Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism. We're supporting women's well-being on Women's Radio Station. Just to remind you March 16th is going to be the Neurodiversity Youth Summit that's been organized by Jeanette Arland, the chair of the London Assembly, and one of my ambassadors, Sienna Castellon. This is going to be held at City Hall between 4 and 6:30. If you'd like to come along, tickets are free. And I'm so excited that 6 of our Autism's Got Talent performers will be showcasing their talent at Queen's Walk at City Hall. So that's all exciting stuff. Our small charity, um, basically is about creating opportunities wherever we can. We do a lot of stuff around performing arts, um, and I'm just so proud to showcase our children and our adults. And I'll be talking, and I'm also going to Glasgow next week as well, where I'm going to be talking about Autumn's Got Talent. So all good stuff happening, um, in the next few weeks. So my guest today again is Emma Kay. So Emma, even though I know this answer, why is it so important that schools, nurseries, and organizations have an awareness of autism? Well, I think kind of the reason I set up my business, The SEND Trainer, was kind of the reason to educate, um, staff. And because as a specialist teacher, I used to go and advise them on how to support children with autism, other special needs. And the frustration was I had like an hour or 2-hour slot to go observe the child, go in, and I wasn't always able to kind of give them enough information. And the reason I, you know, it's so important that the child's needs are met and school understand that the reason the child is behaving the way they are is not because they're being naughty or difficult, which I had with my son. So when he was in mainstream school, I remember when he was about 4 going to the school concerned about him and they told me he was kind of badly behaved and not very bright. Oh, thanks for that. Yeah, exactly. So this was starting my kind of campaign that actually you just need to be more aware of why he's presenting with these behaviours, why he's really struggling. And when you understand, then not only can you connect with the child, you have more empathy with them, but also you can put the right strategies in place that child is never going to stop being autistic. So talk to me about, so say someone contacts you and they say, right, I'd like you to come along to the school and meet this young person. We're having some difficulties. Just so that people are listening in to show exactly what it is that you do and how you work it through. Obviously, you know, can't talk about a specific child, but just to give people an idea. So I, in Kent, what happens is you'd go along to a meeting called LIFT and you get a specialist teacher service in. It used to be that you you would have the specialist teacher in and they would keep your child on for a long period of time. Right. That's stopped in the last 18 months, so they just do advisory visits and that's all the school get. Oh, okay. So what some schools ask me to do is come in and observe, give them strategies, or work with the teacher, or work with the nursery worker, or work with the child. So what I would be doing is looking, observing how the child is managing in that environment. Okay. I'd be looking at how is the adult with that child, what are they doing. And what information do you get before you go in to observe? Do you get information from them or do you like to observe first and then get the information of the background? I used to get some information first. I like to go and observe, but I also like to find out about sometimes trauma. Yeah. So it's really important for me because lots of children I work with, especially as a play therapist, might be on the spectrum, but they've also experienced early trauma, right? And this could be through neglect, it could be through bereavement, it could be through lots of other areas. And we need to be looking at trauma as well as being on the spectrum. Okay, not that the child is autistic and that's why they're presenting that way. Okay, there are different things going on there. Okay. So that's going on in schools, nurseries. So whichever environment they have, children or adults that are on the spectrum, they can contact you and say, can you please observe this child or adult? They're going through a difficult time at the minute and we need some strategies to help. Yeah, exactly. And like last week, so I had a parent contact me. So I went in and observed the child in the nursery. Right. And then I went and observed the child at home. OK. And then I put together a report for the parent with recommendations for the nursery environment, the home environment. And because they're going to meet with the pediatrician, yeah, they wanted some evidence to kind of show how their child presents in different environments. That's so important to have, um, advice for schools and for parents, because if everyone's not working from the same hymn sheet, the child's going to get mixed messages. Um, so what's the impact of mental health on children? I know we've sort of touched on it briefly, but what do you believe is the impact on their mental health on children and young people? Are on the autism spectrum. What sort of things are you finding when you're observing? I've never known so many children with such high anxiety. Wow. So children on the spectrum as well as other neurotypical children. It was really interesting because I've been looking at like the Kent strategy on mental health, right? And what I, what I saw statistic-wise was the referrals to the Children and Young People Mental Health Service, so CAMHS, In 2019, there were 14,189 referrals. Wow. And over 9,092 of those were on the neurodevelopmental and learning disability pathway. So why do you think there's an increase? Have you got any idea? I think what I've noticed as well, especially those children and young people on the spectrum, is they're trying to manage a very unpredictable unpredictable world. It is quite unpredictable at this moment in time with everything that's going on. I've never heard of so many stabbings. And, and also what I've noticed on social media is because of the— is it— how do you pronounce it? The carnovirus. A lot of kids are really on the spectrum are doing a lot of research on it, and they're worried about it. And there's so many parents that are talking about that their kids think they're going to get it and, you know, they're going to die or whatever it is. And it's just like I think it's the media as well. It's like scaremongering people. It's just— and obviously with this thing with Caroline Flack and the Be Kind campaign and the stabbings that you hear about, I don't, I don't want to listen to the news anymore. It's just full of doom and gloom, and we're being exposed to it so much more than we ever were. And then add the fact you're on the spectrum and you take things literally, and then you overanalyze things or, um, you overthink things, and then you make so much bigger than it is, and then you're in a world that's very unpredictable, so what you try to— To navigate. Yeah, you try to control everything, then it can turn into obsessive behaviours. And what I've kind of noticed as well, many more young girls who are being diagnosed with depression, anxiety, eating disorders. Yeah, I've noticed that. And actually, they're not being investigated for possibly being on the autistic spectrum. Okay. So when you go visiting in schools and all the different places that you go to, do you see more boys than girls, or is it a bit of a mixture? I used to, when I was a specialist teacher, on my caseload of about 90 children, I had 70 boys. Okay. And 20 girls. Right. But I think it's just we're not very good at picking girls up as we are boys. Okay. So this The last child I went to see last week was a girl, but I could see she was a high-functioning autistic girl that wouldn't have been picked up because her vocabulary was very good. She just appeared quite quiet, quiet, shy. But when you dug a bit deeper, there were definitely characteristics there. Do you think the SEN cuts are having an effect on schools at the minute? Huge. Okay. So what sort of things that— can you, if you're allowed to share, what sort of things are you seeing? You don't have to obviously name the schools, but— Just the fact that they used to be able to offer more interventions and support around SEND that they're not able to now. I'm really lucky because a couple of schools are really thinking about the mental health and well-being of their children, and I, I'm being brought in as a play therapist to support those children. But they're using their budget to prioritise that, and not all schools are able to do that. Um, but I'm doing far more training on mental health, anxiety, um, autism awareness, sensory processing disorder, pathological demand avoidance. Um, so schools are using it, but there's definitely a drastic cut on specific interventions for children. We were chatting again before we popped in here about the most popular workshop that you're having are about meltdowns. Shutdowns and sensory processing. Can you talk to me a little bit about that and any tips that you might be able to give parents listening in? Yeah. Or even autistic children or adults that might be listening in. So kind of the reason I started doing some parent workshops was because if you're, you can't really access any parenting support unless your child's got diagnosis. Mm-hmm. We've got 3-year wait. Wow. But you're still having to support your child every day. Yeah, trying to do the best you can. So I kind of set up workshops in Kent that were fairly reasonable price, £10 per person to come along. Yeah, some of these workshops are quite expensive and parents can't afford them. So yeah, they're just kind of 2-hour workshops and you can do as many as you want. So Meltdowns and Shutdowns seems to be one of the most popular ones that I, I'm doing. Okay. And what I'm looking at is the fact that actually that's a big thing that parents are having to deal with every day. Okay. So in the workshop we look at things like the brain development We look at why the child goes into fight-flight response. We look at the fact that the prefrontal cortex, the bit that makes the logical choices, your front part of your brain, isn't developed till 25. Okay. So, but you can strengthen the prefrontal cortex. But about supporting children on the spectrum that are having meltdowns, by doing things like prevention is better than cure. Okay. So let's think about Can we pre-plan? Can we make things predictable? Can we make things really visual so our children understand what's going on? Can we reduce sensory overload, like my little toolkit that I take out? Yeah, yeah. So I can do those things. Okay, so that's prevention. Can we redirect? But the thing is, we need to be dealing with the meltdown when it's actually happening, don't we? Okay, so have you got any information that you might be able to share with people, or is it that they look on your Facebook page and there's lots of bits that you share about, might be strategies or things to help. Yep, I put strategies on there, I put articles, I put what workshops are coming up. Okay, so to remind everyone, Facebook is The SEND Trainer, Instagram is The SEND Trainer, um, you're not on Twitter yet but you are planning to hopefully. I am. And you're working on your website, but people can email you, just to remind people of your email address, it is? It's e.kaye@hotmail.co.uk. Thank you. So again, if you want to come along to our Autumn Expo at Brunel University, it's the whole day. It's £10 for the whole day if you book online. If you turn up at the door, it's £15. We have exhibition stands with lots of information or resources you might like to buy. We also have speakers on the day, and we have free clinics where people can get advice on legal behaviour management. So check out the website. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards. With me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Junie Mae Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Meg Matthews, and I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Join us for a brand new show on Women's Radio Station. It's the Meg's Menopause Show. Yes, for the first time on radio, there's an entire show dedicated to the menopause. A fresh new approach where we inform you of all the choices and treatments that are out there. Supportive and empowering, this is your show. So join us every week with a host of celebrity guests, our very own resident doctor, where we talk about everything menopause. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishcon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Places. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health— everything fertility, pregnancy, birth, and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the Radical Wellbeing Show, supporting women's wellbeing. On my show, I bring you ordinary women like me and you who are sharing their unique stories. Women who have refused to be defined by their pains, to be silenced by stigma or crushed by stereotypes, and who are taking back their power. And together, our mission is a simple one, and that's to inspire you to kick away the roadblocks too, to don your wings and be the person that you were born to be. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show Get Booked here here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station, that's Women's Radio STN, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism. We're live, we're in Covent Garden, and my guest today is Emma Kay. Before I go over to Emma, just to remind you that I am patron of CHAPS, and CHAPS are going to be doing Autism's Got Talent in May, May 17th, and there's only a week left to go if you would like to send in your audition. Show us your talent. So whether you're a singer, whether you're a dancer, whether you play an acoustic guitar or an electric guitar, whether you're a magician, whether you're a musician, whatever it is that you want to show us your talent please send us in your, basically, your auditions via YouTube. So it's to Emily at warrington@cheshireautism.org.uk before February the 28th, 2020. So not long to go, a week to go to send in all your auditions. If you haven't quite got that email address, just check out CHAPS, C-H-A-P-S, Cheshire Autism Practical Support support, and you can send us in your auditions. Um, we're going to be announcing our main show, Autumn's Got Talent auditions. Um, oh, I can't believe that it's just so many that we haven't quite chosen our 20 yet because it's just so hard. We've had people from Nigeria, Mexico, Canada, America, and we've only got to choose 20, and that is going to be announced in March, and the show is going to be in June. So In the next few weeks, I'll be announcing all the names. How exciting! So Emma, again, thank you so much for coming along to chat to me. We did talk about meltdowns, shutdowns, and sensory processing, but that is such a huge topic, and I'm sure there's lots more information that you can share on strategies. So what can you tell us? What can you help us with? Yeah, definitely, because I think this is quite a big thing for parents, isn't it, that they really struggle with. So, um, like we chatted about, you kind of get a rumble stage before a child is going to have a meltdown or shutdown, although sometimes it feels like it goes from nought to 60, doesn't it? And all of a sudden they have a meltdown. It's often because the child's already quite anxious, and that might be because things are unpredictable, that actually there's sensory overload, that we haven't given them enough transition or processing time, or we've just kind of asked too many demands. But, you know, it's about, okay, so what do we do when our child is having a shutdown or meltdown? So when that happens, it means the child's brain has become overwhelmed. They've got no coping strategies, they can't manage, and they're showing us their brain has responded by saying, you're in danger, you need to get out of here. Okay. So what happens is I might kick, punch, shove, hit, scream, swear. And my meltdown, I'm out of control. Or even harm themselves. Like Angelo tends to hit his head quite a lot or the side of his ears and I'm always so worried that he's going to hurt himself. Yeah, because, you know, I'm showing you I'm not managing, aren't I? Or so my son tends to shut down a lot. So he'll go really quiet, he'll withdraw. And at that point, I think sometimes what we try to do is we try to talk to the child, we try to talk to their rational brain. 'But I've said to you it's not developed till they're 25.' So, and also cortisol's flooded their brain at that time, so they're not going to be listening to anything you say anyway. So it's about reducing your language right down, but being present. So saying to a child, 'I'm here to keep you safe,' okay, because it's scary. Imagine what it feels like for us when we're anxious or we feel out of control. We've got a rational brain, then you're a young person that hasn't got that developed. So it's about being there and being present for the child, but not speaking and actually helping them manage, reducing a bit of sensory overload if you can. You know, if you're at home, like turning that telly off, turning the lights down to help support them. If you're out, sometimes we all take like a coat. So put a coat, like the hood over their head, might put some ear defenders on. And sometimes it's just about being there. And then when you notice that they're beginning to kind of come back into sort of reality a bit, it might be about offering them something that gives some comfort. Yeah. So, you know, if they've got a favourite toy or a song they like or that kind of thing, but also realising it takes a really long time to actually manage a meltdown or shutdown. They need lots, it's exhausting. Really tiring. It's exhausting for the person, but it's also exhausting for the parent. Exactly. And when, especially if you've got two men on the opposite end of the spectrum, um, so sometimes I'm, I, when you talk about shutdown, I think that's sometimes what I do because it's just like, it's a bit of sensory overload for me. 'Cause you've got like my eldest son, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking away about his anxieties. Then Angelo's jumping up and down squealing and sometimes my brain can't take it. And the only way I can cope with it, even though I want to support them both at the same time, I just can't do it. It's just like I don't say anything and I just like, yeah, it's almost like biting your tongue, but it's just like trying to shut it off. But even though you want to help them, so I sort of get that, if you know what I mean. Yeah. But I suppose then you're still present and you're not talking to them, which is what they need. I know, but it's like, which one do I go to first? I know, but, you know, and also like If when my son has a shutdown, I'll chat to him about it later on. What I'll say is, "I saw that that was really difficult for you. You must have been so scared to feel that way. But do you remember that we've practised the breathing? And if you're not managing, that will help regulate some of those symptoms of anxiety." So I think, because sometimes, you know, when our children are having meltdowns or shutdowns, they are out of control. They can't help it. So making them feel guilty afterwards for behaving that way is going to have a massive impact on mental health, self-esteem, you know. So what we've got to do is go, "That must have been really hard for you." Yeah. "That must have been exhausting," because we know how exhausting it is for us. What my son's really good at is saying sorry afterwards because it takes him time to process what's happened, and sometimes he might come out with things that are quite hurtful, you know, as his mom. And then he'll go away, and then he'll either WhatsApp me and say, I'm sorry, Mom, I'm just really stressed at the minute, and this is the reason why, because he wasn't able to tell me at the time. Or he'll come downstairs and he'll say, oh, can I have a hug? And, um, it takes me time to come down, but he's just thinking, okay then. So I give him a hug, and then he'll just say, I'm really sorry. Um, and then it's like he can switch it off really quickly, and it's just like nothing's happened with me. I'm stewing. That's the hard thing, isn't it? Because you're thinking, what? You behave this way? Yeah, but I always— yeah, it's part and parcel of our life, isn't it? Exactly. And I just try to get into my head, like, it's— you are not in control at that point. Yeah. If I chastise you, if I speak to you about it, it's like you weren't present. And I think that's why afterwards it's like you don't remember it, because you were so in that meltdown or shutdown that you can't remember all the details of it. Okay. I might be able to remember the details. Yeah. But you can't. What about, like, if you don't mind me asking, obviously your husband, how does that work with your husband? He does the same. He has shutdowns, he has meltdowns. Sometimes his shutdowns can last a couple of days. Oh wow. So, but what I've learned is it's not personal. It's, you know, he just needs to withdraw in able to manage, to process, and to get back to the way he is. Whereas I used to go, I used to try to talk to him or go, why are you in a mood with me? Why are you like this with me? And now I realize actually he just just needs time for his brain to almost like reboot. Yeah, yeah, my husband used to email me, even if I was sitting next to him. That was his way of dealing with stuff. I just thought, I'm sitting next to you, why don't you talk to me? But it's just, no, sending me emails. I thought, okay, carry on. Obviously it can be quite stressful being a mum and a wife of someone on the spectrum. So what do you do for yourself, for me time, so that your wellbeing and mental health is on an even keel. I get this a lot, people are like, "You're so patient, how would you do it?" And I say, "The dog gets a lot of walks." Dog's thinking, "Oh no, not again." Here we go again, yeah. So actually I'll go out with the dog, well I run with her a couple of, like 3 or 4 mornings a week, just because I need to move my body and I need to clear my head, and because obviously I'm supporting children on the spectrum at work and working with those children and some children that have experienced trauma, which is quite exhausting, and then also I've got it at home. So yeah, it's a lot, lots of running, walking, and yeah, probably that's probably all I can fit in, to be honest. You know, some of the things, the trauma that you hear, do you bring it home or do you try and shut it out? Because I think I would find it hard and I'd be worrying and thinking, and I know it's part of your job, but do you bring some of it home sometimes? I mean, it's hard not to think about these children, but I have clinical supervision. Okay. So I have to have that, I have that every fortnight. Right. So I see my supervisor and I chat to her, and also because I want to make sure I'm supporting these children effectively. Yeah. You know, some children I've got on my caseload are in foster care, have experienced severe neglect, bereavement. I'd want to take them all home. Well, yeah, that is part of it as well, but I think I've probably got enough on my plate at home. But yeah, so I have supervision, which really helps massively. So just to remind people listening in, if they want to contact you, where can they find you? So I'm on Facebook. I've got a Facebook page called The SEND Trainer, and I post articles and information on there all the time and workshops. They contact me through there. So what type of workshops do you do again? So I'm doing at the moment autism awareness, sensory processing disorder, meltdowns and shutdowns, right, pathological demand avoidance, um, but kind of what parents ask me for. So I do weekdays, evenings, Saturdays, because I know how hard it is for parents to access some, you know, training. Yeah. And I try and make it as affordable as possible. Okay. So that most parents can come along. So where can you see yourself in 5 years' time, 10 years' time? You know, what would you like to see? Just driving autism forward. I just want the message— acceptance, knowledge. Yeah, getting as many people to be aware of children's needs and so that all children are included, all children are accepted, and you know, they're getting their needs met and reaching their full potential. Yeah, and not waiting 3 years to get a diagnosis. Yes, exactly. I can't imagine those poor parents, they must be so frustrated, and it obviously depends on where you live as well. Yeah. Very much a postcode lottery. I have heard some parents where they've been, kids have been diagnosed quite quickly, 6 months, but some parents again, 3 years. Well, we did our survey, it was 5 years people were waiting on average. So we've come to the end. Wow. Already? That was quick. Thank you so much for travelling all the way from Kent to come and see me and share about your family and share about your work. It's been really interesting talking to you and I'm sure we could have chatted a lot more. So just to remind people again, The SEND Trainer on Facebook and The SEND Trainer on Instagram. Thank you again, Emma, and I wish you all the luck in the world and yeah, keep doing what you're doing because we need more people like you. Thank you very much for having me. Okay, again, if you want to be one of the speakers on my show, All Things Autism, please contact me on the charity website. Www.annakenedyonline.com. I'm off to Middlesbrough at the weekend, the Northeast. Uh, wish me luck on my 5-hour drive with Angelo, and bye-bye everyone. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. Hi everyone and welcome to The Femaleing Show. I am your host Nicole Goodman and I am a woman's identity expert and coach. As women, we fall into different phases of identity throughout adult life and Barring these, our challenges can look pretty similar. Here at WRS, I will be talking to you about the real issues we all face, and even the ones we can silently struggle with. Through honest, heartfelt conversation here at Female Ink, you will learn how to accept yourself, understand yourself, and be yourself. Hi, I'm Carolyn van Beers. Please join me for a brand new show here on Women's Radio Station. It's Mother's Hour. 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