Free Your Mind – Julie Swinard, Mental Health Sufferer, Cutting Myself Relieved The Pressure

Hello and welcome to this week's edition of Free Your Mind. Let's talk about it with LKJ. Mental health is the importance of this radio station, www.womensradiostation.com, where we support everyone with mental health challenges. As we are drawing now up to Christmas, the streets, chaos hitting Oxford Street as if nothing is happening around the rest of the UK. When you walk down that street, you wouldn't think there was any mental health coming everywhere except, you know, panic buying, people shopping the bags, even though the retailers are saying that we are heading for a recession, interest rates rising. No, there's no dim of those lights on Oxford Street. However, when we go past London and further out, as we look in the reality from the sparkling lights, mental health is real. And whilst I was out one day, I was sitting in a café and there was a group of people sitting there. This lovely lady was sitting in the corner and they were chatting, they were talking about mental health and having their coffee. Their coffee. And I was fascinated by the stories, what they said, what goes on behind, that even shocked me, some of the statements that were in there. But reaching out the invisible hand and saying, you know, I believe in mental health. And we had a wonderful connection, and we've continued that connection. And why I've waited to this time to use the empowerment of this lady's voice and at this time, because with Christmas mental health, what happens? What is it like to be sectioned? What is it like when your mental health is at the end? So my guest today is Judy Swinard. She's had problems with her mental health since 2006. Judy had spent 3 years of her life on a psychiatric ward. She was in there because of trauma and was diagnosed with bipolar and PTSD. PTSD. She had been given 2 years medication free, and 2 years on she had no episodes. She's been on a healing journey and now supports others with mental health problems. She uses art as a way to express how she is feeling, and she wants to help others in communication and their feelings, and when they feel nobody is there to support them. So now you understand why we saved Julie to the month of December to hear her voice. And, you know, I'm going to go into open conversation for everybody. There may be triggers, there may be trigger alerts in here, so find somewhere comfortable to sit and engage in this conversation, because this is— when I do say mental health is real, there are side effects, how you're treated This is real. So I would ask in respect of Judy and anybody listening to this show, if you do have the opportunity to sit, stop and listen to the radio, or if you're driving to the car, in a car somewhere, you're listening through the internet that's coming through your headphones, you know, whatever you do in this new technology days, which is beyond me. Um, but if wherever you are, um, you— some of this may resonate to somebody because I do believe mental health affects us all at some point in our lives. So on that note, hello Julie, how are you today? Hello, I'm good, thank you, very well, thank you. Thank you for joining us on the show, and I'm going to ask you a few questions and go into Judy, let's start by where was you born? I was born in a little town called Faversham in Kent. Okay, and you know, did you have any siblings? Um, I've got 3 sisters and both my parents were, you know, they're— well, one's passed away now, but, um, yeah, I've just got my mum left in Faversham. Um, yeah, so Okay, and, um, did you go to private school or public school? Public school. I left school at sort of 16, you know, and went straight out to work, um, at 16. Yeah, yeah. So, Jodie, looking back over your childhood, you know, with my psychology and stuff like that— this isn't a test, it's not anything, I'm just, you know, usually um, in often quite a few mental health cases, um, that we see when people are going for diagnosis, that we look and we look for a pattern. We look to go back. So what I'm doing by creating is not putting you under a, um, stage of a shining light on you, uh, an interrogation. And I hope that doesn't come up. What I'm trying to do is to get a nice level platform where we're both, you know, sitting as our voices rest. We're getting, you know, anxiety and stuff out the way, you know, with things in when we're going to be touching on subjects to bring you down to a comfortable level yourself. And, um, you know, as we're saying, it often starts in childhood trauma. Have you fallen and knocked your head? Neuroscientists believe that, you know, if you fall as a child and not care. But, and Ashok Jansari, great believer, that great neuroscientist that, you know, studies the brain and what happens, and it can, you know, affect our personalities. You know, when people have brain tumors, they do that. People and children usually form epilepsy, something like that. Something shifts in the brain, you know, you know, as we're growing up, as child. So how would you describe your childhood, if that is not too personal? No, that's fine. Um, well, it was— I mean, my father was a lovely big character, but at home he had a very severe alcohol problem, and he would get very angry, and, um, he was quite violent, um, indoors, you know. So I think that's a lot of where my problems stemmed from was actually childhood. And, you know, although my mum was very loving and caring and they both, you know, supported me, the alcoholism really was, you know, it put a lot of pressure on me as a child, you know. And I think that's where it all stemmed from. And I had a lot of rage inside me, like my father. When I was at school, I didn't know how to express myself, and I was often put in the room on my own because I got very angry very quickly and was very highly strung. Can we just stop onto that section? Yeah. So we look at anger, we look at hurt, we look at pain. When we're looking at that as a small child is what— for a child, it's not what you're meant to go through. You're meant to be going through life looking up to our parents, but they've got challenges that are affecting that, that sometimes you become that child sitting in the corner with your hands over your ears, your head into your knees, going, "Stop, stop," you know, rocking. Frightened to bring a friend home from school. I couldn't do that. I never thought to do that. No, no, I couldn't bring friends home. Did you stop that, Julie, yourself? I left home at like 15, 16. As soon as I could get away, I moved in with a friend. So yeah, as soon as I could sort of get away, I was away. And I mean, even my sister, she was pretty violent towards me as well. So I had it sort of quite a few ways, you know, at home. Yeah. So the childhood for yourself, it was the start of the trauma that you might have been battling with as a young'un. Yeah. But by 14, I was cutting myself. I was, um, I was trying to ease the pressure that was going on, like, inside me, so I started cutting myself. And then I got bulimia as well, um, because, um, my self-esteem was so very, very low, and I felt crap, basically, as a young person. Um, yeah, so I had a few issues, um, But then, you know, I'm 52 now, so back in the day, never, you know, mental health wasn't really talked about, and a lot of things were very much hidden. And very much, obviously, you coming from Chatham, there was an institution in Chatham in Kent, I do believe. St. Augustine's. St. Augustine's, yes. I do know there was one that was in there where people would go in, you know, you know, for respite of their mind. Some people would check themselves in because I just need to get out of life and go into that. So for yourself, you know, having this pain, and as you were saying, cutting yourself— for people that don't understand, I don't, you know, I'm treading easily on here, um, why did you find If you cut yourself, which is obviously hurting you, how did you think that helped? Or— it's like, it's a feeling like inside you, you feel sort of tortured, like, and it's— it just gives you some sort of release of that pressure of, um, you know, I used to hit myself, I used to just hated myself, you know. So to snap was like to let the steam out, to lift the lid off things because it was just going to boil over. Boil over because my voice wasn't being heard, you know. Yeah, tough, tough, tough things you've seen, you know, and obviously seeing other children with their parents, skipping, that looks all rosy. But what we must touch on here, Julie, is that a picture can be painted so beautifully, but inside those doors, it's hell. But when they step out— so for people that are looking, when they look at mental health, Julie, and I suppose yourself, that people say, look at them with their nice cars, their beautiful house, their children, all right. Go in and it's helped them and all the fighting, the domestic violence. But for you, that person that's suffering, you're self-cutting because your dad's abusive, you know, you can't have friends around, thinking yours is worse. Equally, that person across the road in the nice house with the car are suffering too. It's two types, so we must not typecast. And this is what happens, you become to get typecast and labeled, and we need to remove these labels. We need to have more vision and clarity with an open mindset and understanding of mental health, to understand what it's like to be in that position. Because for somebody that has worked in adversity with mental health like yourself, it must be very frustrating. Because I know for somebody that's trained now in mental health, and also, Julia, as you know, I was very open myself with my own adversity, mental health that I went through again with the bullying, how it starts, everything like that. But you have to free your mind. You have to open up and say, but I know because there are some people that fake mental health. Mm. And that really irritates me. They fake it. Or you get people that think they know that, that person may be into, whether it's a doctor, think, you really haven't got a clue, you've just gone to school, read a textbook, sat and they went, next, next. That's what frustrates. And actually, when people are like, you know, we're going to touch on a bit later in the show how you ended up on a psychiatric ward for 3 years. Having people like that as doctors actually irritated and sets people off more with their mental health, doesn't it? Yeah, yes, definitely, definitely. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. Um, you know, there's so many people going through this at the moment. I mean, in the past 6 weeks, it's been very sad for me because I've lost 2 young people and my daughter's friends, and they were 25, and they both committed suicide within 5 weeks, 6 weeks of each other. Oh my goodness. I attended a funeral last week of one of them, and that's mental health and the drug problem there is at the moment. You know, with— there's a massive drug problem, and it's causing people to not want to be here anymore, you know. Are they— I mean, obviously we've always had some sort of drug system, as I know, going around. Growing up in my teenage days, not that I tried any or did that, but I knew people that did. And obviously in my work setting, to say, and there's a lot of dirty drugs out there now, aren't there? You don't know what you're putting inside your body. I mean, you know, you don't know where you're getting it from. Well, where you get it from or where they're getting it from. It's not moderated. You don't know what the hell you're putting in, you know, when you're taking recreational drugs like that. I mean, personally, I did turn to drugs myself, so I can understand where people come from when they do take drugs. You know, I had, um, I had addictions. That was a later thing that come on with me. Um, but yeah, it was a— it's a horrible dark place to be in, um, when you're forever wanting the drug to try and make you feel better and escape reality, you know. So I totally understand a lot of people, why they do it. You know, I'm not— I wouldn't judge anyone, or, you know, I'm not a judge of anyone who— what they do. No, but we'll come back to that because obviously, you know, because we spoke about the suicide bit for people, you know, it was on that— just hold that, you know, that trigger thing to come, relax to come back. We will come back with that. Break that down because we had two major big shout-outs there. And as you know, with mental health, you know, we try to keep the balance going through that and keep the temperament going. But so for myself, I'm going to take you back. So we touched on your childhood. Yeah. So you said, you know, as soon as you could leave home and escape those walls of pain and the alcoholism, you move from it. But at the same time, you said both your parents were supportive. It was an illness. Alcoholism is an illness. Whilst your father was suffering with that, but did he ever hit you, Julie? He never hit me, no, no. He used to smash things up in the house. You know, hit your mum. Yeah, he has hit my mum. Yeah. Um, yeah, so watching that, you had that like for yourself. So because of the violence, that's just for anybody that is in this situation and dealing with alcohol, you can't just quit like that. You have to see the doctor. You have to have medication to help you because your body will crave for it. You know, and coming off, you know, you have to do this professional help. But standing up and saying, "I want to give it up," and something will snap and make you do that. We have to think of your mental health. You are enough. And this is the message. Judy, you are enough. You was enough then, you are now. You are enough now because you use your voice and learnt through that adversity that to help others, and that's what we have to do. You know, when you've walked in the real hardcore of this, and you've walked real hardcore mental health and going there, so this is why we're looking at the age of 16, you've managed to free yourself from what was known as you as home, but also a battlefield, a minefield, a place where pain used to darken your mindset to the fact that we're cutting, bulimia, being sick, just to release the pain, the trauma that you was in. So under the law, to be a certain age of 16, we can leave home or do anything. You had to wait till that time. So you've come out of it. Did you manage to take any form of examinations? Yeah, I took my, uh, there were CSEs at the time, so I got, you know, sort of average grades, and I took my examinations, yeah, straight after school and, uh, went straight to work. And what was your first job? Working on the fields, picking. Oh, fields? Oh, wow. Yeah, but don't— for anybody that's laughing, you know, working on the fields, That is some serious hard work. You must— you people that work on the fields and people, you know, when we're putting the potatoes on our plate, the grafting and the pain in your backs and what you do with the weather to earn. You know, when you see these great big bins on the side where the apples are, how many bags you're taking in a tree to fill that for something like 6 £7 or picking the sprouts. I mean, wow, full credit to you, Julie. Yeah, I sort of moved on from that, and then I sort of worked in a furniture shop after that as a complaints clerk, so that was quite interesting. Yeah, so looking and feeling it. So at that time, how was your mental health? You know, had you learned that the pain is suppressed a little bit? So that you stopped cutting yourself and stopped, you know, throwing up, you know, after you've eaten a meal, um, you know, was your mind a bit more free or was you feeling more accepted in the world? No, not really, because, um, I was still— I had bulimia. I still— I wasn't cutting myself as much, but at 18 I met a fella and got involved in an extremely violent relationship, so which ended absolutely horrendously. So I sort of went straight into another violent battlefield, basically. So battle after battle after battle, which is domestic violence, cutting, the sickness, the pain. The pain becoming from acute into chronic, into complex. You are now Suffering with complex trauma. Yeah, I was basically— how I feel now is I was basically looking for someone to hurt me the way I was hurting myself. Really? Yeah, that's how I see it. So as you were cutting and doing all this pain, it wasn't releasing, you know, that dark pain inside, like the steam of a, you know, when we look at New York Underground, and all of a sudden it just pop and this steam comes out. So at that point is when that aggression, that punch, that's what you wanted. You were seeking that pop. Yeah, the, the, um, that aggression, as you, as you say. Yeah, so I sort of picked an aggressive partner and, um, soon ended up, you know, tied to a chair, whacked with a broomstick, and Ended up in a hospital and my friend collected me and he was chasing me down the road with a machete. So I escaped very— I was very lucky to be alive from that situation. It was absolutely horrendous and it scars me. Did you go back to that person, Julie? Not after that. Not after he tied me to the chair, I didn't. Um, but I kept— I, I wasn't allowed to leave the house because he was, um, he would tie me if I went to the shop. He chose what I wore. He, um, he then put alarms on his house so he knew if I was going out the house. Um, and yeah, it would— anything that I'd done, he would take it upon himself to hit me. Um, so yeah, and he killed my dog as well. Um, it's your dog? Yeah, he put it upside down and filled it with water and drowned my dog. So, um, yeah, that was my young experience, and that's never left me. And how old was you at that time? I was 18. 18 years of age. I didn't know, you know, in the length of time— how long has relationship lasted? You when you met him at 18. Was you still 18 when it finished? Did it last? I was still 18 when I, when, when I left. Yeah, yeah, I was still 18. It only lasted about 7 months, which was long enough. So on your journey seeking for this pain, after almost losing your life, your animal being killed in a treacherous, awful way, and subject to being a prisoner and beaten, and even worse from going through childhood, you were now in your teenage years, adolescence years, and this pain, this infliction that you were seeking more and more came to a dangerous point where you could have lost your life. Yes. As well as everything else that happened on it. How did you manage to free yourself? Um, it was because we was at the hospital and they thought I had leukemia because I had so many bruises and, um, I was covered from head to toe. And, um, they wouldn't sort of release me. And then a friend come to pick me up and that's when I sort of escaped, you know. So I managed to escape from there. Yeah, there was no phones back in the days, you know, we didn't have mobile phones then, so It was very hard to get hold of someone. So do you find at that point when you've got that— so for the listener who may be in that situation, the partner's at work, they're trapped, they're in that house, the narcissist has left you but in that building and gone on, you know, and you know whether you put yourself in that position or not you know, and somebody wants to get out. How did you get out from that? Well, it's only through the hospital. I mean, it's, um, I wouldn't have been able to get out if I hadn't been taken to the hospital. Um, I mean, I would have— I kept trying to run out, do you know what I mean? But he was always there, always there. Um, yeah, so when we look at this hospital situation, which I thought you had leukemia with all the bruises, etc. that were on you. Obviously then the doctor looking at it, when you have that quiet one-to-one, which the doctors control that situation in hospital where you can speak out to them and they can put emergency procedures in straight away. So is that what happened with you? Yeah, that's what sort of happened, yeah. I mean, he sort of fled and then came back. He came back to the hospital? Yeah, he came back to the hospital. Most people, narcissists or murderers, do like to come back to the scene, go back to see, you know, what's happening. It's like an adrenaline rush. Adrenaline rush, yeah. Yeah. So after that, you stayed in the hospital, they cared for you, got everything right. Did you have to move away? Sometimes you have to go to a safe house, don't you? Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't. I went back to my mum and dad's after that because I had nowhere else to go. So you went back from this being hurt, back into the volatile regiment where your father was still drinking, still being hurt, back in this full circle of pain that was just like a roller coaster going round, up and down, faster, slower, faster, slower, and just sending you mind into, you know, so much mental health trauma from that. Did he ever try to reach out to you again after that? Well, he threatened to burn my parents' house down, but no, he never reached out after that. And how was the police and everything regarding that? They didn't know that. They didn't do anything about that. Nothing was done about that. How it was, the bruising. So the hospital didn't call the police? No, no, no. Did they give you a reason for that? No, no. I mean, we're going back about 30 years now, and I think like things like domestic violence were quite hidden as well back then, you know. Hmm. Yes, um. Quite a journey to being 18. So let's go on from there to the next stage. What happened then between the age of 19 and 24, Julie? Well, I sort of carried on. I just sort of— I was taking drugs then. I started taking marijuana and I was drinking heavily. Very heavily. Why did you start taking marijuana? Was it a fashion thing because you were out and everybody was doing it, or because it was that smoking the cannabis that chilled your mind out? Yeah, yeah, it just made me, my whole body relax, um, because I was, I mean, I've always, um, suffered with major anxiety and panic attacks and You know, marijuana just sort of made my whole body stop shaking inside. You know, I've always had like an inner tremor. It just sort of relaxed that horrible feeling. And with the alcohol as well. Yes, I have a friend that, you know, was in a similar situation. Where they tried, like you did, because of the tremors and to slow it down because it does help. But, and then she's on the cannabis oil now. Yeah, yeah, the cannabis, that's, that's, um, I mean, you know, um, it does help. It's helped— cannabis oil can help cancers, it can help arthritis. Personally, I don't take it anymore because of the psychoactive bit in it which can affect and give you psychosis. I mean, the CBD oil is good, but, you know, it's got a lot of healing properties, but the psychoactive part of the cannabis can cause psychosis and give you hallucinate, you know, hallucinate hallucinations and stuff. So personally, I don't take it anymore, but, um, but it is good, you know, for people with like Parkinson's as well and, um, multiple sclerosis and lots of other illnesses. Um, but you know, I think if you buy, you don't like, it's who you're buying it off again. You know, some, some of these cannabis plants hasn't even seen the earth. It's, they're grown in tents under lamps. It's not grown correctly, you know. Mother Nature is there, you know, with lots of healing stuff come from the ground, but yeah, you know, you got to be careful when you got mental health taking cannabis. You know, it can affect you in other ways. Hi. Oh. Hello. Hi. Cut off there. Hello. Love. Hello. Hello. Oh Christ, did I just sleep then? Hello? You know, are you there? How long did I just doze there for? Uh, sorry? You know, I just dozed off then, I do apologize. I suffer with narcolepsy, so all of a sudden I just like clonked out. Sorry, Julie, it just happens now and then. I hope I'm coming back into the show. That's what happens with real mental health and narcolepsy and going off. And I said, hello, are you all right there? Well, come back and probably snored. Did you hear me? Yeah, I heard you snoring. I thought I'll make a cup of tea while I listen to your snoring. How long had I gone off for? Only a couple of minutes, 5 minutes. Thank you for bringing me back round again. There with mental health and like that, I get like the undatables where you go into a restaurant, you just sit and then your head falls into your dinner. And even on a radio show when you're recording live, you can just go with it. So, yeah, so picking up the last thing I remember asking you before, obviously I've gone out of there, was, you know, from 19 to 24. So, and coming through. So looking at now and where we are now, is there a particular point that you would like to cross over on? And talk about regarding the life on the psychiatric ward? Well, I, you know, I went in in 2006, and I mean, I would never been into a mental hospital. I used to strip naked. That's what I used to do. I used to go in town, and I felt like I'd lost my mind. Well, I had lost my mind. It wasn't there. I didn't feel like I was on this planet. And I just used to strip naked wherever I used to go. And, um, maybe I was just trying to, uh, expose myself and get out. I don't know. Um, but anyway, I was put into St. Martin's in 2006, and when you— as soon as you get there, you're being observed. But I was being observed by 3 guys. Watch you, see what you're doing. And then I started kicking off because I wanted to go get out of there. So after you stripped off, gone naked into town, do you know how the police come and got you then? You know, you— the police are different things to go in, which St. Martin's in Canterbury is a mental health hospital. Where under the law you can be sectioned for 28 days whilst assessment is being carried out, which is deemed in the best interests of yourself, correct? Yes, that's right. So whilst you were in there and these gentlemen were assessing you and you've got to say, was there a period when you thought, well, your mind would calm back down and thought, what the hell, what am I doing in here, I need to get out of here, I need to be in my own home. A bit like when an alcoholic comes down after having their beer and sober up. Do you find that if I'm talking in that context for you, that's how it felt in that moment? Well, because by that time I had Um, when I was first sectioned, I was, um, I was with my children's father, and we had a— we— our marriage— well, our relationship split up, which led me to, um, losing my mind. That's how it felt like, basically. Um, and yeah, um, it— that's what it's like. You're like, when I have an episode, it feels like I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, I, I connect to something higher than this world. There's some sort of connection to something else bigger than this, what we see normally in the normal life. Um, you saying with mental health, um, for you, um, when you're in the middle of that episode, there is a different out-of-body experience feeling that you connect with, with the universe that is sending these signals. Um, yeah, that's pretty good. So I just want to get it for the listener, some people that don't understand, that's where we're looking at it because of the charging of your brain, how you feel, and where you're going. And you are having, as you believe, and then the clearest way to tell a mental health advocate or someone, is that is exactly how you feel. You have no control of that. And when we look at mental health, Julie, whether people, you know, have overdosed on drugs— Mark Stephen Poole, a great friend of mine, he talks about when he had enough and overdosed on his drugs. To the point that he, he had left his body. Yeah. And had this thing and that he could actually see himself looking over his body. And we have— yeah, I've done that, encounters of that, and thinking, well, you're getting this detachment, but then suddenly you're forced back in, you know, with it, whether it's electrical charge or, uh, you know, CPR paddles bringing you back. What they're trying to do to bring you back in, to get the heart going. And you can hear it, because one of the last things to go when, you know, you leave it is your hearing. So that's why a lot of people can hear it, you know, when they're saying that they have this experience of going. And as you've seen with me, with suffering with narcolepsy, completely different. When that happens, boom, the lights go out, bang. I'm there, you know, and it's very dangerous. What would happen to me there? I'm sitting on a bus or a train, boom, gone. I am gone. Yeah, but I'm in the comfort of my own home. I've been on a train. Unfortunately, I have to have somebody travel me, as when I was with you, I had somebody with me. Yeah, because of those dangers that I can find myself in. Yeah, you don't know, you could be having one of those attacks and be raped on the train or anything. 'Cause when you've gone, until you're actually hearing that nose and your body's coming back in, and it's, you know, the brain, you know, of all the functions that it does have, is a wondrous mind and a wondrous brain. And I think we all have that because we are uniquely different. And feel something. Yeah, yeah. Do you find now, you know, from when we had that conversation— because I don't like to dig in too much or dwell on too much, you know, that you said, um, but life on it. So 3 years, was that— that's 3 years when you were taken, when the guys were assessing you, where you wanted to go home, that you couldn't get out? No, it was— this was over based right up to— I mean, I was last admitted in 2020, so it was 5 times I've been sectioned and 3 years in total that I've spent on wards. Sometimes it was only for 3 months, sometimes one time it was for a year, so it's all depending, um, when, you know, when it was. I mean, the lot during COVID um, they picked me up, um, because I was doing some strange things around town again. I call them spiritual emergencies that I have, um, and still removing the clothing. Yeah, not in 2020, I didn't, um, that I didn't do that. I was, um, I was walking around. I mean, during COVID we weren't meant to be out, was we? But I was still wandering the streets with a trolley basket trying to— I mean, because I mean, the reason why I went in there from 2005, I lost my daughter in 2015 in a car accident. Yeah, I was— I didn't want to bring that in unless you had, because, you know, we spoke about that outside the café when we was in there. Yeah, but are you happy to— Yeah, I'm happy to talk about that because that was a big, you know, grief is another big thing in life that, you know, takes a lot to get over. Well, you don't get over it, it's something you learn to live with. Sorry, sorry, just bear with me. Sorry about that. That was me and our collapsing tent, and that was my wonderful neighbour seeing when I was going to have the dinner ready for the neighbours. So yes, adversity in the channel and doing this, but that's the beauty of live radio. Um, you know, when we're coming— yes, we do pre-record it, but we record live, and I don't rewind and go back because we work in the reality of life, like the dogs, you know. That's life. The best laid plans, um, however, uh, like last night, it was like they cooked dinner for me. Um, so, you know, helping that I have today, um, I can return that favour and they can have food. We work together. Yeah. But I wasn't expecting to come around at 6 o'clock ringing the doorbell because it was clearly 7 o'clock. So with the narcolepsy attack. So see, life, you know, we get back on that road and we keep working and going with it. Just at that point you was talking about your daughter. Yeah, yeah. So, um, yeah, that was, um, that was an evil experience that I wouldn't wish upon anybody. Um, and it feels like— I felt like I've been cut in half with a samurai sword. It was— I mean, bless her heart, she was always there for me. She supported me through everything. Like, um, she was such a loving, beautiful spirit. Um, and yeah, it you know, I've got my other daughter Sophie. Otherwise I wouldn't have been here because immediately as soon as I heard that she had been killed, I was going straight for the medicine cabinet because I wanted to end it there and then. I didn't want to be here no more. I made my mind up. And if it wasn't for Sophie saying, I need you, Mum, we've got to do this together, there was no way I would have been here. And then after that, a little while after that, I was admitted again to St. Martin's on suicide watch. And yeah, that was, you know, when you're on suicide watch, when you're in hospital, you have a 2-to-1. That means you've got 2 people within arm's distance of you at all times. And that last— Handcuffed? Not handcuffed, but they've got to stand next to you within arm's distance of you, and that lasted for 3 months. Is that in, in St. Martin's on the psychiatric ward? Yeah. On the main ward when you was in hospital? Yeah, on the main ward. Had you attempted it in then? Oh no, I hadn't attempted it. I wasn't— I didn't intend to commit suicide. So how did you end up back into St. Martin's? Because I was smoking a lot of weed and I was drinking a hell of a lot of alcohol and I was doing not normal stuff. Like, it's quite hard to explain, like, I was pretty loud. I was running, like, even seagulls started talking to me. I know it sounds crazy, the crows and I was sitting there feeding the pigeons, like every whole new— because when it's hard to explain, when I lose my mind, it's— I literally lose it. There is no Julie with the Julie character. It's just emptiness. Like, it's just, you know, there is no— how was your daughter killed? In a car accident. Driving. It was a drink driver. He wasn't drinking, he was dangerous driving. He was driving like an absolute lunatic. Um, and yeah, he, um, he left my house at midnight and, um, by 3:30 there was a knock on the door by the police and he had killed her. And we had to go through the trauma of court because he was dangerous driving, and he got 3 months on tag and an 18-month suspended sentence. You know, that's another thing that I've had to deal with, the anger of him actually not respecting her fucking— excuse my French— respecting her life and driving safely with her in it. He's no longer in the country because, uh, you know, he just left the country. So that's, uh, where it stands at the minute with him. But I mean, that was 7 years ago, um, and yeah, it's basically— it's torturous losing a child. Um, you don't expect to outlive your child, do you? You can't. No, it's not a natural form of how it goes. And I'm very, very extremely proud of you. You know, it's not obviously, oh, I'm extremely proud, you know, for us how we talk and we, you know, um, and as I said, you always know where I am. We met on that and we could have sat and spoke all day, all day long, and that's what I mean, connected after doing that and having that natural report to speak in as a mental health advocate, you know, you know, amongst all the people that you know, that, you know, LKJ will come along and sit as the real person there to hear, and in which you— I was referred to by a couple of them, because when you're in those institutions and that, sometimes you find it very difficult to actually speak to them. Do you feel that they're too sterile? Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, at the moment now I'm on a restraint reduction panel. I do a lot of work for the restraint reduction because I'd been restrained over 50 times when I've been in there. And sometimes it was like— I mean, I'm quite a strong woman. It used to take 4 or 5 of them to get me to the floor to inject me because I was forcibly injected. I never Were you injected? Yeah, I was forcibly injected all the time. Every time I've been in there, I've never wanted medication and they've always forcibly injected me. I've never taken medicine off my own back. So that means they pin you to the floor, they pull your legs up behind your back, your arms, pull your pants down, and they inject you with Largactil, with all sorts of horrible— um, Largactil is a disgusting drug. It's horrendous. I mean, my last time I come out, they actually put me on a CTO order, meaning that if I went out in the community, I had to go back and be injected with this stuff, Abilify, because otherwise I'll go straight back in hospital. So I had no other option. And to go and be injected. That was an order that they put on me. So yeah. How did you work through that, Julie? You know, obviously you're in a much better place, but you will still have triggers, you know, that happen to you. So the time has gone so quickly, you know, in this hour interview. I know, I know. I'm dying on air. The healing part that helped me. Um, healing. So healing, doing that yourself. And you said about your art, didn't we? We were bringing Julie back on, um, after Christmas for another episode on that. So to, you know, to touch base on a lot that we haven't been able to. So it'd be great to have you back on the show in January, Julie. But what is your armor and your advice for people at Christmas and around this time, and for you, that you will look towards to try and help you from having, you know, not having— when the triggers hit, overcoming them and protecting yourself from obviously being readmitted to a mental health institute? What is your message to anyone? Self-care and self-love. Be careful what you're watching, what you're listening to, what you're feeding yourself in on these sort of, you know, is what's gonna happen in your life. Try and talk to someone if you've got, even if it's outside of your usual space, just try and talk and try and get someone to listen. To you if you're struggling, because there is somebody out there. You know, I'm always sitting outside Nero's in Canterbury at 1 o'clock if anyone wants to pop up by for a coffee who's struggling. That's in Canterbury, isn't it? Canterbury, yes. And it's very good because the, you know, when we look at the company, Cafe Nero's, and they're not being, we're not being paid by them or anything, but they actually support mental health in, and especially a city like Canterbury, where people with mental health issues, oh, you can't go there, they're like the homeless. They actually, you know, allow you that lovely corner in the square where it's very safe, open door, and people sit outside, you know, and you all tend to go over just onto there at 1 o'clock. They know that time, have your coffee, sit there, a cigarette, have like an hour, everyone can come along and chat outside. Can't afford to pay for village halls or anything like that to speak. And then when you're talking about restraints, medication, how to help, and like you said, reaching out at 1 o'clock every day, you will go to Café Nero's. Or where I work, where I volunteer for the homeless and people with addictions in a Ava, like the, um, shop in town. Um, it's called A-H-A-V-A, Ava. It's a, it's a charity shop. And which part of Canterbury is that? Um, it's next door to Jack Wills, it is. It used to be the old bank there. Jack Wills? No, I'm, I'm not, um, not sure. Yeah, it's, uh, right on the High Street, it is, opposite I'm going to say where GP— you won't know where that is. So it's not far from opposite NatWest Bank. No, I know Fenwick's. I know that sounds really awful, doesn't it, saying where's the homeless and sitting across it, but I know where Fenwick's is in Canterbury, which is a big departmental store, which is shocking for me. But I know what I mean is I know the high street. I know you've got the Heart Foundation. On the left, and you've got Marks Spencer's, New Look on the corner. Then you have the old Dorothy Perkins who were getting down there. So I do know the High Street, uh, there, but not, you know, just blind shopping, you know, in these shops. We've got like in-house artists that are upstairs at the moment, um, and we're doing a lot of, um, workshops as well. And Kobe, I work I think you met Kobe. Yeah, she's amazing. Like, people just come in, drop in, have a chit chat. We've got a settee and that in there now. So, um, you'll be there tomorrow? Um, what's the day tomorrow? Tuesday, isn't it? Tomorrow? Yeah, I'll be there tomorrow. Yeah, I'll drop by. I'll probably come over. What time are you going to be Cafe Nero, or you're going to be, um, in the charity shop? I'll be in the charity shop around probably about 11 o'clock-ish. Okay, lovely. I'll probably come out, come over and do a live, and, you know, to show people as well with the radio, um, to bring her live and to bring the visual on there so people know, um, hey, who you are as well. It'd be great, you know, to get that there together and bring you back. So, um, yes, Judy, it's been incredible for you to come on there. Sorry that I had a narcolepsy attack in the middle and weren't Sitting here on air and completely out. And the reason being, because as I said to you, I had to go out to get some bits myself and I didn't take my medication this afternoon. Never trying to, you know, do everything, didn't take that pill. Wondering, I thought, oh, I'll get something to eat, have a drink. The worst things an narcoleptic can do is eat carbs. So I had a bacon roll. I think I was really hungry and to have carbs and then doing the radio. My apologies for that and for the dogs. But when you free your mind and talk about it, Vel KJ, it is a real show. I believe in, in the voice, being the voice for the voiceless, being the vision for the visionless, you know, for those who feel invisible and bringing everyone together. But that's the end of the show. Thank you, Julie, and see you next time.