Future Classic Women Awards – 2020 Opera Winner

Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station, the program where we search for the most amazing new female artist on the classical panorama. Today I'm excited to reveal the winner of the opera section of Future Classic Women Awards. Before I tell you who she is, I would like to listen to her first piece of today interview and let you guess who she might be. Formal dim liar. And the winner of Future Classic Women Awards opera section is Belinda Williams. Hello, Belinda. Hello. Thank you so much. Congratulations. So how. Where were you when you received the news that you are the opera winner of Future Classic Women Awards? I was at home folding the laundry. That's very good. So how do you feel about winning? Oh, I'm thrilled. I know that the music world is in hibernation at the moment and just emerging tentatively, but I feel very positive about the future of our art form because there are so many, there are so many very passionate musicians wanting to make music. And as long as people want to make music and want to listen to music, it's nothing's going to stop it in the long run. Absolutely. And I mean, this program is exactly it. We want to show, you know, that musicians are a person in, you know, and they can fold the laundry to the washing is not just the moment you hear the albums or the tracks on the radio, but there is everything else to it and definitely, I mean, the pandemic in particular hit the music industry quite badly. But we were very lucky to have our wonderful fans to keep listening to our radio and to vote and they really loved your. Your tracks, your stories and so congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you. You're welcome. Now, why did you choose. The first piece we heard is Battison Heinz Does Heidekind or Yes, I think Heidekind from your album Songs and Sonnet with pianist David Owen Norris. So why this piece? I chose this piece partly because I'm an English woman singing in German and that's been a lot of my story so far. I've been in Germany since I studied. I left the academy and went straight out to Germany. And this year, just before, well, actually on the day that the UK left the European Union, I was given German citizenship and so I'm a very proud British and German passport holder. And I, I think also the words of that particular song really resonate with me because this young girl said, oh, if only I'd stayed at home, then I wouldn't know any pain, I wouldn't have experienced pain. But then she also said oh, but if I'd stayed at home, I'd never experienced any love. So I think it's a song about love, risk and risk, something musicians and artists know about, because you put a lot on the line personally, financially, to make the art, but then without. Without that risk, you'd never know the love and the rewards that you get from being a professional musician. Absolutely. I am totally with you. But I mean, the risk of going out and staying home is actually very relevant also where we are today. You know, the risk that the NHS people, the key worker, were going, were facing for trying to save people and keeping life going on for everyone, you know, to keep the food in the shopping centers and I mean, as being really this safety that you find at home, the love that you find at home, but also what you can find outside. So it's really sort of a reflection of where we are today, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So where were you during the lockdown? Were you in Germany or were here in the uk? I was in the uk and it was. It was a night flight, actually. Not a flight on an airplane, but a flight. A very swift drive through the night. We had planned to move back to the UK so that my daughter could start school. And so when we heard that Germany was shutting the borders, and this was. This was weeks before the UK lockdown, of course. Oh, wow. We thought we'd expedite that decision and we packed our belongings into a car and drove and we set off from near Dresden at 2 o' clock in the afternoon, and we were at the flat that we were going to be staying at by sunrise the next morning. So it felt very dramatic and. But I look back and think we didn't even know what was to come. We thought we'd be here for a couple of weeks and then be able to go back and pack up our belongings properly. And actually, it became a lot more cataclysmic, didn't it? Oh, my gosh. It sounds like, you know, like, you know, the. During the war, when suddenly, you know, before the war is starting. It's really that type of feeling, isn't it? It really is. And there's. I have got a sadness that I wasn't able to say goodbye to where we'd been living and I wasn't able to say goodbye to the friends we'd made there in person, of course. But, yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's very, very interesting, particularly the fact that you were living at night. I know it's a long Drive as well from Germany. And it's also romantic in a. This change and arriving in the. In the new place where you're gonna live for, for a while at sunrise, you know, the new light of the day, isn't it? It's a new era and we were very, very lucky in some ways that we were in lockdown on the Isle of Wight, which is where I'm from now. So as soon as we were allowed to, we just spent the day on the deserted beach. And yes, there were some hardships, but we are all healthy. I have. If I crane out of my window, I can see the sea. Oh my gosh, that sounds like a dream. Wow. Well, so really beautiful. And so during the lockdown, because of the, you know, the incredible settings where you are actually where you're able to record and to sing more, maybe collaborate. Absolutely not. I was in lockdown with a four year old and a two year old. And I think everyone will admit that there's an enormous discrepancy between the experiences of people with children, without children during lockdown. I'm not saying that either is more difficult than the other. I think that being lonely has incredible ramifications on your mind. But there is nothing like being locked down with two children who are sociable and just want to see other children. Don't want to be stuck with Mum. Mum's so boring. No, I think. I think I was lucky if I got a shower, let alone. And so for a long time I didn't. I wasn't practicing and I was. I cooked a lot, but no, I'd say there were a couple of months where I. I hardly made a noise. Which is no bad thing to have a little break and a reset. Yeah, yeah. And for me. But in a way you're ready to go back, isn't it? Oh, I. Oh, I'm ready. And I've got back at school, one at nursery, one at school. And I'm really hoping they don't close those places down again because it really gives mommy a chance to actually make some music. I know very well I couldn't touch the piano since the lockdown started. It was just a nightmare. And then I had things coming up and I was like. And once I remember I was practicing the piano and my daughter was like, mama, Mama, it's too much, Mama, you practice too long. And I just played for like 15 minutes. Their hands over the ears and say, it's too loud. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, they love it. They. I don't know your children, but my you know, she loves when she comes to see me performing and, you know, you're with the big concert dress and is the settings and everything. They are so fascinated by it, but they don't like what's behind it when they. When you are working at home and. And you can't give them the whole attention. Yes, exactly. I mean, I guess this applies to any other mother, working mother, any other job, you know, the children. When mom is at home is the time to be at home. My. My daughter calls the weekends Family day, so she knows that in those days we cannot work, although that's impossible with our job. If you have a concert coming up, you can't say, oh, I'm sorry, I had family day. Also, the weekends are never family day. If you're. If you're working in the theater, those are. And then maybe double show days. Yeah, no, no. I'm lucky enough, you know, as a soloist, you just have a concert every now and then. You don't have. But I can't think about. Yeah. The fact of having the, you know, as you said, the double show. Oh, my gosh, how can you do that? And then they start school and. But, but you know, there is so many others that they had the children and that's. They understand and. And then anyway, you get the holidays, so when you get the holidays, then you can be mommy. Yes, exactly. Bake lots of cupcakes. Cupcakes. Oh, yeah, That's a good one. Okay, so how. How important this is a competition, although, you know, it's a competition from the audience because they vote by listening and sharing and loving and commenting on the interviews of our artists. But how it is important for an opera singer to compete. To do competition. Oh, I think there are opera singers for whom competitions are comfortable. For me, I was never very good at competitions because it was showing yourself as a product. And I prefer being able to hide behind a role and a costume. And I never really saw myself as the product. I thought of the music and the role I was embodying as the product. And so for me, I always found competitions very difficult. I think they're very useful for young singers. They can catapult you into stardom. I was successful in song competition. Strangely enough, I did do well in quite a number of those because there's something more intimate about standing and singing song, as opposed to standing, putting on a very big dress and bashing out some opera arias and saying, look, I'm the opera singer that you wanted forever. But this sort of competition I find very, very, very Pleasing because this, this is a competition not only based on the merits of you as a performer, but whether or not they like you, they're an interesting person. I thought that. I'm very, very grateful that you think that my ramblings are worth listening to. A.B. really? That's exactly it. I mean, a lot of the comments that comes in are about, you know, how interesting it is to see that the opera artists that you see on the big stage, they're actually normal people, that they like other type of music, they like doing normal things like cooking, you know, the cupcakes or having to deal with the children that they don't want them to. The mummy to work, for example. So that's the beauty, I think, of this program. And that's what makes someone then to shine more than others. Our guests are all incredible artists. They all have make beautiful music and they have wonderful stories to tell us. Sometimes some stories are more appealing or more relatable in a way from the audience. So. Yeah, but you said something very interesting about the song and the opera. So I mean, the song, what would you say? It's like they are about a more normal way of depicting a feeling maybe than the big opera where everything is put under a bigger, more spotlight. What do you think? In opera the music reflects the fact that you have to get the emotions over an orchestra and to the very back of the stalls, at the very back of the gods, up at the top of the theatre from a great big stage. And so everything is exaggerated. There are exceptions, there are chamber operas. They're meant to be seen up close, but in general it's an exaggerated art form. And song, the songs are sort of the opposite. They are little encapsulations of a moment or a feeling and they're very intimate. And I think it's important as a singer to try and carry on doing both all the way through your career, to try and be able to. It's a bit like an actor having a close up and then you have to be able to make you more. Yeah, but you are, however, you know, performing operas and a lot in Germany, isn't it? You have main roles in the German theaters. What would stand, you say, is the difference between performing in Germany and maybe performing in the uk? Do you feel any difference? I feel there's a bit of a difference in audience because it's normal to go to the opera in Germany. Everyone's mom or dad or granny has a season ticket. Oh, wow. It's just, it's really normal. And when you say, oh, Hi, I'm Belinda. What do you do? Oh, I'm an opera singer. They just say, oh, right, that's nice. There's no. There's no. I see. Oh, oh, I've never met an opera singer. Or. Oh, aren't you meant to be enormous and wear horns on your head? It is just a normal thing to do. And also you have the great benefit of, if you belong to a house, like I did for many years, of having sick pay and maternity pay and holiday pay and things that make you very comfortable when you then go out on stage. But having said that, I've given that all up for the thrills of freelance work because I really love to travel. That's part of the reason I got into this. I like making music with different people all over the place. And so hopefully when things open up more and more, back to doing that. Oh, wonderful. Just a question, you know, curiosity, because I don't know. Is in Germany the season ticket cheaper than Rear Opera House here in the uk, for example? Enormously cheaper because it's. A lot of the houses are state funded. I was in the state theatre, which literally means that I was paid from the same pot of money that pays the local civil servants. So most theatres will have a drive. So the under 20s or under 25, under 30s get €5€10 tickets to every show and things called an ABO, which. Those are your season tickets. You probably work out at paying €15 for each performance you go to. So it's a lot more financially accessible to go to an opera in Germany. But also, I mean, is there opera in German, for example, like here we have the English National Opera, where the. They do the operas in English, even the Italian operas or the German operas, et cetera. So that would be very accessible if you want. Right. For a younger audience or for people that they want to understand more about what the singer is singing that very moment. Or they're all in original language. Well, at the houses I've worked at, they've all been in the original language. And then you get smaller houses where they might do most things in German or almost everything in German in translation. And so those would be the small. Those are usually called Volks Theater or Landes Theaters, and they are the theatres that you have in quite small towns often. So I always think it's interesting to think of little small cities and small towns in the uk and what's now there, Wetherspoons Pub or Bingo Hall, Germany, that would still be a working opera theatre. So it is very different. There would Be little Enos all over the UK if it were. And I think it's to do with state funding. It's. I think if you make opera cheaper and more accessible, then the audiences will come. Absolutely. I mean, they are fun operas in general, I think, of course, unless you're gonna. There is the very tragic one, etc. But there is always in everything, some moments of joy. I mean, if you think the original operas were the entertainment of the time, so you would go to the theater to scale Milan, and you would have the room, your box in the theater, where you would have dinner, for example, and you could play cards and then go back and watch a little bit more. And then you get bored and you go and have some more drinks and rest and then go back and see, oh, where are we with the movie? In a way. And I always judge an opera house by what kind of snacks they serve at the interval. It can really make your evening so much better if in the interval you get something, some kind of bubbly wine. And I went to one, a really nice house last year where they had these lovely bits of smoked salmon. Nice. I was more inclined to enjoy the second half of the performance. Such a lovely interval experience. Well, let's listen now before we go to the opera, because actually we got two wonderful Italian operas that we're going to listen to. But then the. The song that we're going to sing right now, listen, right now is Perry, Shall I Compare Thee to a Summer Day? In German. Right. From your album Song and Sonnet. Yeah, let's listen. Therefore. How beautiful. So intense this was. Perry, Shall I compare thee to a summer day. So about this song, I mean, Parry is an English composer, so why did you write in German? Well, I thought it was interesting to include this. There's such a discourse at the moment about Paris, Jerusalem. And what people forget about Paris is that if he were alike today, he'd be very much European, Europhile. He was so good at German that he was able to set the German poetry slightly differently to the English in such a way that you. You really. You'd be hard pushed to tell whether it was a German or an English composer. Sometimes when British composers set other languages, the stresses aren't quite right and the phrases bloom in the wrong places. But Parry, you can really tell that his proficiency in German was excellent. And I think, for me, coming back to the UK at this time, I'm very proud to be British. But it is a bit jarring, this anti European discourse which persists because people like Paria are Crowbarred into the debate as being on the side of the Victorian empirists. And actually he loved German so much and so that he decided to write one of his most famous song cycles in two languages. And also, I just love the Shakespeare text. It sounds just as beautiful in German, strangely. Yeah. But there is, you know, something very true that she said. I mean, particularly musicians and anyone involved with culture, they know that you can be so enriched by any other language, any other nationality, any other cultural background. Doesn't have to be. You know, we were so lucky to be in Europe all unified. And before Brexit, we were, you know, I was at a conference where we were talking about globalization. Thanks to technology, and in a way, thanks to the pandemic, there is a globalization of the lockdown as well and of the worldwide crisis. And again, the technology was the one that allowed us to be unified. So it becomes in a way silly, this idea of separating from anything when we should embrace each other and embrace the diversity. Yes. And it seems especially sad when people who are long since dead, like Parry, get drawn into a deb. Were they alive, they would surely actually be rooting for the other side. He was an artist and he was a scholar and Jerusalem is a very beautiful, beautiful song. It's really one of my favorite hymns. But I think we do need to recognize that the experience of being British in 2020 is not the same experience as being British when Parry was writing. We have a very different cultural makeup. It's okay to amend some of our most British songs to reflect that. I really. I don't think Parry would have minded. Absolutely not totally. I mean, what's the purpose of a song? What's the purpose of an opera? What's the purpose of. Our job is to communicate, isn't it? Is to reach out, not to close ourselves in. Yes. Yeah. I was sad that the Proms was hijacked by this debate about exclusivity and inward looking because it is the exact opposite of what making music is. And any musician that you meet will tell you that you could not be a racist and bigoted person in the theater. You wouldn't get very far. I mean, it doesn't exist an orchestra or an opera with singers in it, that they're just of one nation, isn't it? It's just impossible. And that's the beauty of it. So you get musicians that they come from all over the world, not necessarily for the color of the skin, but even just, you know, because they come from different nation. And music has always been you know, enclosed with that, with the artists, the composers, Mozart, Chopin, everyone touring from court to court international, and bringing the latest, most advanced technique in music, in arts, in technology as well. And that was also making everyone to push forward towards modernization. And I think you're right that modernity should be something that we also talk about in classical music, and that includes talking about race and making sure that. That there's equal casting opportunities, no matter what the colour of your skin is. For example, making sure there is still black on stage where people are blacked up to play roles. Aida, for example, that shouldn't be happening in 2020 in the name of preserving an old art form. We are a modern art form in that on the stage we're modern people making the theater. And so there's no need to be constrained by what we perceive as being necessary. There's no need to black up. There's no need for Madame Butterfly or Suzuki to be white people with slightly, slightly oriental makeup on. It's not. That's really not necessary. Find another way to. If you've got white singers, or if you have singers who. They're not the right ethnicity, don't crowbar them into that ethnicity. You can have a different concept or you can cast people who look right for your traditional production. We are. I think this, the Black Lives Matter, has made me much more aware of how opera fits into this debate. And although backstage, the theatre is very welcoming and inclusive place, do you see that we need to make a stand as artists for problems in the casting or problems, perhaps, with the aesthetic decisions that are being made. It's not enough to just be nice to your colleagues. You also have to advocate for your colleagues. Absolutely. Well, it's also true that, you know, these operas were written in a time where you did. They didn't have access to more diverse musicians because there was not that type of education and culture that would bring in more diverse singers, for example, to play Madama Butterfly. Yeah, that's right. So there is. But that was what they had in mind. The story was about a Japanese woman who would kill herself because the man she loved wasn't coming back. Or if you think about even the Rosen Cavalier, where you get two women, one of the women, to act the part of a man. That's another very inclusive way of, you know, showing the opera. Opera never cared very much about how you look and who you were, what they cared. It was what you were doing with your voice, about the instrument, isn't it? Oh, when it comes to gender, opera, opera, really, at the forefront of saying there are no rules. Absolutely. All the Baroques opera as well. You used to have the castrato. Now you have women. Metal sopranos. Oh, yeah. I have kissed many more women on stage than I have mentioned. Yeah, it's a. It's a. Did they see your picture? I think I saw your picture on Instagram where you had the beard. I don't remember for which production. That was for the Rake's Progress. That's right. Funnily enough, I must send you. I've got a picture of me holding my little baby, and I've got the beard on. Somehow he recognized me. He was only. Oh, gosh. How old is he? Three months old, maybe. And I just couldn't believe he recognized me in this orange wig and orange beard. It's quite fun, isn't it, as well. This fact that you can pop in from any side and you can be anything when you are on stage is. It's. How do you say, Liberating in a way, isn't it? You're not anymore a woman. You're not anymore just a soprano. Mezzo soprano. You are an artist. And in that moment, you have to deliver the most incredible, you know, message to the audience. And it doesn't matter what. What you do, that's what you're doing in that moment where you are, isn't it? So it doesn't matter if you're a man. It doesn't matter you're a woman. It doesn't matter. Any, you know, things from your private life that doesn't count. That's just adaptation. Person, that character on stage. Transformation. Yeah. So what would you think? I mean, when you. When you decided to start singing, apart from the fact that your voice would bring you to have to play those characters one day? But did you ever think, for example, when you were a child that one day you would have to be a man on stage? For example? I remember being told when I was 18, and they said, okay, you should sing these roles. And I was a bit disappointed. Yeah, I've been singing a while. I've been doing a lot of musicals as well. And I thought. Wait a moment. I thought opera meant that I got to wear a nice dress. I don't think. I think I've got to wear, oh, gosh, about two or three nice dresses in my whole career. So. But actually, you tell me. I mean, we're gonna hear now some opera where you're doing the part of a woman, not of a man, and actually a very modern woman, that is Rosina is one of my favorite characters in Barbiere di Sevilla by Rossini. And let's listen to it and then we talk a little bit about this character. So let's listen to Una voce Pacopa. La. Sam. Sarajak, k? Sa. Sak? Ra. My favorite. This is Una voce Pacofa from El Barbieri di Siviglia by Rossini with Belinda Williams. Belinda, that's my favorite, I mean, is a cento trapole and a thousand traps I'll make to go, you know, to trick you if you don't do what I want. So I'm very sweet. I'm very, you know, I'm lucky lamb and I will follow you. But if you. Yeah, she's enormously feisty, isn't she? You know, and this is an opera composed in the 1700 and. And is such a modern woman. I mean, women has always been. Have always been, you know, pictured. Try to. Taught to be the sweet lamb that they are in the house and that they take care of the kids and the husband and everything. Mother knew very well, and there's always been. And, you know, since Cleop Patre, if you want. You always had very strong women that they knew what they wanted and they knew how to be respected. Yes. And using your femininity can be a great weapon. Absolutely. So if you had to choose a character that you would say represents you the most, which one would be in the opera? Oh, my goodness. I don't think I'd be in an opera. I think, see, before. Before I came on your radio station earlier this year, the last interview I'd done, I think it was about a year ago. And the interviewer said to me, and so what's really interesting about you? And I said, well, sort of nothing. I don't think I'm interesting until I step out on the stage. I'm just quite ordinary. I don't think he'd write an opera about me. Let's see, is there a modern character? I'd probably be someone in the background cleaning. It's impossible. How can you be in the background and then sing Rosina in the Parlor of Sevilla? How can you do that? How can you transform like that on stage? Because it's an outlet, isn't it? I was a very shy child, if you can imagine it. But I could stand up and sing a song. So it's obviously something that. There's a different part of me that comes out when I'm on stage. But is there any role that you would dream to perform? Not just because the Music is beautiful, but also for the message that comes out of it. Have you ever thought about. Oh, there's so many, so many for the music. Anything by Puccini. I'm sorry, but I just have that very old fashioned tastes and just beautiful. Not old fashioned, it's very modern. I mean, I just love Porcini and I. And even when I know it's coming, that those moments, those tear jerking moments, they always get, always get me. I was actually, I was at the filming, the live filming at the Opera House in the audience for Butterfly and I was a wreck afterwards. I was just. I cried so much, really, my face was red and screaming down. I was in this box, I think with a friend. She'd been getting some tickets and next to us there was Jenny Eclair, the comedian. And afterwards she just said, are you right, love? And gave me a tissue. Keep it together. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was crying as well the other day. I don't remember what I was listening to. I think it was instrumental music though. But it was so beautiful and I loved it so much and I just couldn't, could not cry and. No, no, no, actually I was doing a video with a friend, you know, for this NHS support and everything, something that is going to be published soon. And we were playing. I was playing Casta Diva and I was practicing it with the video of Maria Callas and I just could not cry and my daughter came and hugged me, you know, like, mommy, are you okay? I was like, come on, it's so beautiful. I just. It's incre some time this music just came into you and you can't stop it, isn't it? It just comes back out with all the emotion and it's not a sad song, it's just because it's so beautiful you. You cry, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's a funny. It's a funny thing to do for a living, isn't it? You cry or laugh. Not crying in the theater. It's a very cathartic experience. Going to the operation. Absolutely. Actually, you know, another of my favorite opera is Cavalleria Rusticana, that is by Mascagni is one of the most powerful. Another one, I cried so much and this unfortunately so short. It's just. Normally it's paired with another short opera. So you have a. First off it's Cavalleria and second half, for example is Pagliacci. But you know, Voilo Sapete O Mama and would you like to say something about this song? I mean, I can talk forever but Would you like to say something about it? It's just the most timeless story, isn't it? Because there's a man who loves a woman, but it's not the woman who's singing. She is not his first choice. And the whole opera is driven by her disappointment and jealousy. And it's. It's a very, very human opera. Yeah. An honor as well. I mean. Yeah. So. Oh, gosh, what's compared to. Compared to Riddu. He end up. That is the beautiful man. So he comes back from the military service and he goes back to his first love, that is Lola, that is already married to someone else. That's the problem. And the santuzza that is the one that you are singing, she's basically. She was in love and she was promised to compare Turido and compare. Turido doesn't want that anymore because he prefers to have an affair with the married woman. That was first love. Then to. And so she goes to her mommy, to the mummy of Comparitorito, saying, you know, this is the story, this is the truth. And I did something very bad because I was so jealous. I gave him up to the husband of Lola. And now they're gonna fight. They're gonna have a duel for the honor and we might lose him and it's all my fault. So she condemned. Condemned her love to death, basically because she was jealous. And that's something that unfortunately happens still today, isn't it, in the 2020. We're still talking about people being killed or murdered, you know, for. For jealousy, for honor or for. Yeah. And that's why you say to me, are you like anyone in the opera? No, I'm not going my husband, I'm not going to make him duel with other men. He's not going to be shot dead by Lensky. But for example, I don't know. I mean, Rosina is a very good, I think a very good role, female role, because she's strong and she gets what she wants. And that's someone I like very much, for example. But let's listen to Mascagni. Voila Sapete from Cavalleria Rusticana with Belinda Williams. Sail. Sa. It. Me. To. So intense. Mascani. Voila Sapete from Cavalleria Rusticana with Belinda Williams. Belinda, how beautiful was Cavalleria Rusticana? Do you have in the pipes maybe to perform Cavalleria? Well, that is a role that I may be performing in the future. And actually, if you've listened all the way to the end of this interview, I might give a little something away about what's happening to me at the moment. I haven't yet made an announcement, but I am currently transitioning from being a mezzo to a dramatic soprano. Oh, wow. That. Congratulations. Congratulations. I mean, it's incredible how the voice change and then your career in a way change, isn't it? Because that will open up new roles that you were not able to perform before. So what would be your dramatic soprano roles? You know, of the dreams. Tosca. Tosca. Now that's an interesting character. Oh, my gosh. It's the. I think it's the best of the best. I don't know. They're all beautiful. It's so hard to choose, isn't it? I'm very excited. I'm very excited because there are so many interesting women in this voice type. Yes. Well, congratulations again. We will be looking forward to welcome you back. Maybe with some Tosca with Puccini amore, dramatic sopranos. Aria is going to be fantastic. So again, huge congratulations to Belinda Williams, winner of the second edition of future classic women awards in the opera section. Thank you and you're very welcome. It's been a pleasure talking with you today. If you have any questions that you would like to our guest or nomination for our future classic women awards third edition, please email present us@womensradiostation.com or tweet us @womensradiostn tune on Monday, 12th of October at 10am London time to discover the winner of the crossover section of future classic Women Awards 2020. You've been listening to future classic women awards on women's radio station live every day at 10am and 10pm London time. And if you would like to catch up on our previous programs, please head my presenter page. Stefania Pasamonte future classic Women Awards on womensradiostation.com thank you for listening.