Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station, the program where we search for the most amazing female artists on the classical panorama. Today on Future Classic Women Awards, we actually have 5 incredible women, and we start with Rūta Vītkoskaite, who's a composer. We had her back in November with the trio Sonorité. Welcome back, Rūta. Hi Stefania, so good to be back. So happy to have you. And then we have Gemma McGregor, Catherine Wren, and Dawn Wood. Good morning. Good morning, Stefania. Good morning. Um, and Ruta, would you like to kick off this, um, episode of Future Classic Women Awards and telling us a little bit about this new project that you have called Modern Chance? Yes, I'm very happy to. So, um, Modern Chance is my first big project in Scotland that I am both curating myself and also I'm being one of the composers in the project. And the idea behind the project is to work with contemporary music and poetry in this case and try to tie various Scotland's cultural and natural heritage topics into our creation. So I am joined by a wonderful team. Three of our members are here today, and there is also Joanna Nicholson and Emily Doolittle. Who are also on our team, and we all come from slightly different parts of Scotland and with different approach. Let's say myself, I am quite new to Scotland. I only just arrived 3 years ago, and everything for me is quite new. So my perspective on cultural heritage and language, we We think about Gaelic language, we think, speak about mythology in Scotland. So my perspective is really quite fresh on this personally, while, well, for example, Gemma, who lives in Orkney Islands, I'm sure she will speak about herself and how she approached this project from her own angle. So yeah, it's been, we started working on it in summer, and we already had one concert. It was streamed online. We had 6 new pieces premiered and a very large number of new poems created by Dawn. And so some of this music we will play here today, and there are new concerts, new events are coming up, which we will invite everyone to. So we have, you know, I read about the Book Week in Scotland in November. Was that last November or is going to be this November 2022? So it was November 2021. Ah, 2021, okay. So yeah, it was in November 2021 and it was already presented It was a concert which started with workshop. It was— everything was online and started with workshop. During the workshop, we invited audience to log in on Zoom and we, for example, one of the topics in our project was Gallic winds. So we asked audience to recreate with their voices various types of winds. It's, yeah, it's very interesting. There are 12 Gallic winds. All of them have names, colors, and they have also kind of— there is a symbolic meaning attached to each wind. And they, of course, have their own sound. To me as a musician, that was important. And we also invited audience to repeat to learn some Old Norse bird names. So the names, it's very interesting. Again, Gemma could tell you more about this, but those names that birds are being called the way they sound. So they, like, you know, all cuckoo birds, which is cuckoo, and it's like, this is the sound of the bird, that is the name of the bird. So in Old Norse and also in Gaelic language, I think many birds are called after their song, which is very interesting, which was another big topic of our project. We tried to tie music and language in a sense that language was an expression of music in a way. And in all the languages that— We quite often come across that. I think maybe in modern language, music is— and language, they are very separate fields. But we were thinking about very old prehistoric times when music and language was still one. And we prehistoric humans, we used to use it as one, one tool to communicate and to express ourselves. So, yeah, we were digging very deep into the essence of music and the essence essence of language. Okay, now I'd like to ask Dawn, Dawn Wood. So you are a poet, and how important is the sound and the musicality in poetry? Oh well, it's very important because really it's almost a subconscious thing that happens, certainly for me when I'm writing. I know I have a certain accent, and because as everybody does of course, and so I'm sort of working with that matching of sounds when I write, but I don't really think about it consciously that much. For me, I suppose it's just an inherent part of how I think in words, you know, the sounds are there, and quite often people— I think words rhyme and other people say, "Oh, don't, that doesn't rhyme at all." You know, it's not a definite art, I don't think, at all times. I know, absolutely. Well, I love poetry, I think it's very much similar to composing music. You choose words because they sound— they give a specific sound as well, and a specific emotion, I guess, no, to, to the concept that there is so many words that they mean the same things but they have different nuances to it. So really, um, I think they are the poetry— the art of poetry is like music, the art of music, uh, so much So much that the ancient Greek, they had the same, the same god to patronage, patronage, yes, to oversee these arts. Question: how did you decide to become a poet? When did you know you would become a poet? Oh, that's an interesting question. I was always an artist. I always painted and drew, and I just never stopped, you know, as a child. Never stopped doing that. But then there was a particular time in my life when life was a bit hard, and I realized that my sketchbooks— I was writing words instead of drawing, and the words were really helpful to me. And I think that's how a lot of people stumble across poetry, you know, they need it somehow to help themselves. And then I became obsessed with poetry, you know, the rules, the techniques, other poets. That I had access to, and that's really how it started to unfold. I must say that as part of this project, I've really enjoyed writing stories as well. The art of storytelling isn't something that I'd explored that much, and so it's been a joy to use— to do both these things. Of course, again, they're not separate, so to use the sounds to enhance stories that seem to fit the project. Okay, well, I'd like to ask Catherine then. You know, last week, Catherine Wren, we had another viola player called Hannah Gubenko who was presenting her latest album, um, Hommage to Isaïe, and she invited another famous violinist called Carth Knox, who is a composer and a violinist. So, um, I wanted to ask you, Catherine, how better or worse, or I don't know, up to you of course to answer. How was it, your experience of performing these new compositions alongside as well words to accompany the music? Yeah, first of all I'll say I jumped at the chance to take part in a project that involved words. I mean, I absolutely love reading and poetry and marrying those sounds from the words with the music. And so I think I'll start talking a little bit about Macher, which was written by Emily Doolittle, because that was very much performance for me and Dawn. And it was an improvisational piece. I was playing off a graphic score. But at the same time I was also reacting to Dawn's readings of her poems. And for me, that, whilst it wasn't explicitly written in the score, I couldn't not play without reacting to Dawn and her voice. And similarly, Gemma's piece was— I know the Orkney Islands really well as well, so it was really evocative for me to be reacting to the words associated with the birds in the Norn language and to imagine the sounds of those birds that I've heard on so many visits. And again, playing Ruta's score, it was a very open piece for me to interpret. I mean, really tightly structured— I'm sure Ruta will talk more about that— but tightly structured with symbols for me to respond to. But exactly how I responded to those cymbals was up to me. So overall, I just love the freedom of working on this project and of being part of the creative process, actually, not just being a musician who played the dots, but also just contributing to how the pieces of music turned out. Wonderful. Well, before I ask a few questions to Gemma, I'd like to start with the first track of today, that is "Can't I Reach It." Ruta, I think you have to help with this title. Sorry? It's "Counteract." "Counteract." Okay, for clarinet solo and audience chorus, performed by Joanna Nichols. Ho! And ho! And hi-yah! Hey-ya! Hey-ya! Ho! And hi-yah! Hey-ya! Hi-yah! Yo! And yo! Himmen! Ho! And ho! Oi oi ei ei ei! Oi oi yo im innen innen hinne! Hai hai hee hee hee eeen! I am here and heyin'— I am, I am, yoan, oyen, oyen, I am, heyn, heyn, heyn, oyen, oyen, yoan, inen, inen, inen. Ain't he great? Ain't he fine! Great ain't he, and ain't he joyous! Amen! Hallelujah! Hey hey hey oh yeah! And this was Cantarex for clarinet solo and audience chorus. Composed by Ruta Vitskauskite and performed by Joanna Nicholson at the clarinet. Ruta, would you like to tell us a little bit more about this piece? Above all about the title, because I don't think I said it right. Quite well. So it's an unfamiliar word for me as well. It's, um, uh, it's, uh, counteract is is a Gaelic word. It means a type of notation, a notation for bagpipe music. And this notation is actually made up words to remember Gaelic— to remember bagpipe sounds. So you heard me singing and then the chorus singing some unfamiliar language of words. So these words are canticles. And they actually, they don't have any other meaning than just those sounds that they make. So as I mentioned before, connection of language and music is very important. We especially paid lots of attention in this project on onomatopoeic words. So I myself wrote this music. I was studying a little bit of counteract notation and I was also, I got a practice chant which is something you practice before you move on to playing bagpipes properly. So do you play the bagpipes? Oh no, no, no, not yet, not yet. But I do, I have a practice chanter which I play a little bit. I'm very, very, very beginner in this, but I can play a couple of tunes. And so I joined the bagpipe, there are those communities, they're quite strong, and so I joined one community where they share canteract pieces. So I borrowed one of those pieces, and what we did, I kind of rearranged it into chorus for the audience. So the voices that you hear in the recording, they are actually voices of our team. So it's myself, Gemma, Catherine, Joe, and— Right. Yeah, and Emily. And we also had Ellie Cherry, which I actually haven't mentioned. She also another member of this team who played a bit smaller part, but she, she contributed with some electronic, creating electronic for one of Emily's piece, so which we will hear later. But, and yeah, it was really, really fun. And before this starts, I actually a workshop where I teach audience to sing along. And eventually, when we will have a possibility to play this piece live with live audience, when all of this pandemic is over, finally, forever, then the idea is that I will teach audience to sing, and then they can sing along with Joe's clarinet playing. So, yeah, it's a— Audience participation and new music, let's say. Wonderful. Well, Gemma, I'd like to ask you then, Gemma, you are in Scotland, are you from Scotland? McGregor sounds like a surname from there. Well, I'm not from here originally, but I've lived in Orkney for 20 years. Okay, wonderful. Well, what about, you know, this project of having the Scottish heritage and language into the composition? It was quite interesting when Ruta approached me and said, was I interested in working with Gaelic? And I said, well, I'm sorry, but there is no Gaelic in Orkney, no tradition of speaking Gaelic at all. The heritage in Orkney comes from Norway and Iceland, and their ancient language is Norn. But I have worked with that. I'm very interested in the Icelandic and Orkney sagas, and quite a lot of my pieces are based on the sagas. So she said, can you find the ancient language of Orkney? I said, well, I can try, but it's not spoken anymore and it's a lost language, and many people say that it doesn't exist anymore. Okay. But I said, I'll go search. And I knew there were some bird names in Norn, because I use bird sounds in my pieces as well. And I knew that the local people called a lot of birds different names than the Scottish names. Like they call the curlew a "warp," and they call the blackbird a "chucket." And they're really interesting sounds, because they are copying the noise that the bird makes. So I went asking old people and poets and the library, and we have a bard in Orkney, so I asked the bard. And I collected about 100 Norn words, and 30 of them are bird words. Wow. And then I asked the bard if he would pronounce them for me and made recordings of him saying the words, and then my pieces were based on the sound of the words. Wow, very interesting. Now, where are you from then, Gemma? I grew up in Wales, so there are actually similarities with the Welsh language and accent to Orkney, because the Vikings in the 10th and 11th and 12th centuries had quite a good shipping route between the two places. I think maybe that's why I get on well with the language, because it certainly has similarities to the the pitches of Welsh. Well, I think, you know, as a composer yourself and me studying music history, I think there is some similarity between the ancient way of how music was created and how we're doing today. So with this representation and development of the music in nature, so from the birds singing, for example. What type of composer are you then, apart from this project specifically that is taking the inspiration from the chants of the birds? Well, I've tried lots of things. I've written quite a lot of choral music and several quartets, and I've written 3 operas, and I'm just in the middle of my fourth opera at the moment. Wow, wonderful. And so, I mean, you are more of a, um, let's say classical composer more than the— you know, there was like Messiaen as well. There is the Song of the Birds, uh, or the nature sound. He was one of the most famous, if you want, that got back that type of inspiration to the contemporary music. Um, what do you think about contemporary music today? Are you the type— I was having this conversation last, uh, last week with Garth Knox about the composers that they like to break completely any schemes that has been done before to create something completely new, or someone that instead likes to take from tradition and bring it a new life with the contemporary inspiration and techniques and you know, and your own take on music? Well, I think I do both. I am actually quite influenced by Messiaen because I play the flute, and I learnt his piece Le Mur Noir when I was a child, and I loved that piece. So that maybe was the part of that journey, but also from the— what are you breaking away from? I use speech rhythms, and I used to not let on that that's what I'd done. So some of the rhythms in the pieces are quite unusual. In the more recent pieces, I have actually shared the words that the rhythm came from with the performer because I think that dialogue is quite a useful one. And form-wise, I break away from classical development styles and I use material that transforms. So I suppose my structure is more like evolution. It isn't that there are building blocks and you put them together in a nice pattern. I like the material to morph, so that is my new thing, and my past thing is that I am influenced by Bach, Fauré, and Messiaen. Wonderful. Well, we have one wonderful piece today to be performed, and that's the Blackbird Bird Pageants for viola solo, so performed by our guest, Catherine Brenn. Would you like to tell us a little bit about this piece? Well, this was kind of a lockdown piece in many ways, because I tried hard to think about positive things about lockdown, and one was that there was very little noise. I mean, Orkney is a quiet place anyway, but there were hardly any planes. And, well, the traffic was very minimal and the birds were singing. Um, and so I was in my garden, um, and the blackbirds were very full of song and they were all gathered around the sycamore tree in my garden and I was listening to them every day and I kind of made friends with them. There was a female blackbird who seemed to be the boss. She was the biggest and she sang, and this is unusual apparently, that she created songs. She didn't just have the one pattern. It's usually the male blackbirds that have all the really fancy songs as a sort of courtship display, I suppose. So the Blackbird Pageant imitates this lovely lady blackbird who sang on my sycamore tree during lockdown. Wow, beautiful. Well, let's listen then. The Blackbird Pageant by Gemma McGregor, performed at the viola by Katrin. Bren. And this was the Blackbird pageant composed by Gemma McGregor and performed at the viola by Catherine Wren. Catherine, we were talking about the opportunity of performing a piece and collaborating with the poet. The next piece is My Chair of Flowers with the poem by Dawn Wood. I wanted to ask you, how is it to work both with a living composer and a living poet that can put the input into the way you're gonna interpret the piece compared to when you're performing Bach, for example, or, I don't know, Issei? Well, first of all, the composer is obviously there, so you can bounce ideas off them. I mean, if you're playing something like Bach, you're never quite sure whether you're producing what he would like you to produce. And also with the added thing, I suppose, for a viola player, that when we are playing Bach, we're we're not actually playing music that Bach wrote for us. We're playing the violin sonatas and partitas and the cello suite. So it's a very, very different experience. Yeah, I think one of the hard things to find is the balance between letting a composer entirely write the piece they want to write and letting your feelings as a performer come into that. And also to be really careful actually that you allow yourself to be challenged. I think one of the difficult things about playing a brand new piece is that there is no precedent for that piece. Nobody's ever performed that piece, and in a way you have to construct that piece. You have, especially actually with a piece like Makah, or with Ruta's piece, The Oracle of the Winds, that you have to find your own way through that piece. And I think it has to be a collaborative process between the composer and the performer. And I think it's a really exciting thing to do, actually. I really enjoy doing that work. You know, you mentioned about the fact that Bach didn't compose for the viola, so you're performing pieces that have been transcribed for or adapted for the viola. Same, for example, It was with the project by Anna Gubenko with the Isai violin sonata. Or like we are working on Beethoven cello sonatas transcribed by Hannah for viola. Now, why do you think in the past there was not this composer interested in composing for the viola? I think historically, if you go back, there's a piece book rather by Quantz, a Baroque composer, called The Art of the Flute. And that book, I'm sure, I mean Gemma in particular will know a lot about this book, but it didn't just talk about playing the flute, it talks about lots of instruments actually and how Baroque music was performed. And if you read that book, he's actually incredibly rude about the viola. All the things that people say about viola players now were being said at that time. And yeah, no, it's full of joke. I don't understand why it's such an amazing instrument. What's the problem with the viola? Well, I think probably historically, um, maybe people who, who were less able on the violin, um, played the viola. And I think a lot of it came out of that. I, I have this theory actually that different instruments attract different characters actually, and It's amazing how often you'll see a person, and as a musician, you can have a pretty good guess at what they might play. And I think maybe viola players don't seek the limelight so much as some other players. And yeah, and obviously— I don't know. I mean, in my experience as a musician, I've always met a viola player that they were fantastic soloists. I don't know, maybe I've been lucky. But— and also, while I can say The common feature, physically speaking, is that they were women, beautifully tall and slim. I don't know if that's something to do with the fact that the viola is a little bit bigger than the violin. A bit like, you know, when you're a child, you play the smaller size of the violin, isn't it? And then you grow. So let's say you grow more and you are able to play the viola. And might be the other way around, like the jealousness of the violinists that they cannot reach and play Bach Chaconne, for example, on the viola because the distance is larger. What do you think? Yeah, definitely. I mean, first of all, I just qualify that. I mean, nowadays, yes. I mean, viola players are at an incredibly high standard, as much as any other instrument. I mean, yeah, there's some, and, you know, some of the names you've mentioned, people like Garth Knox, who are absolute masters and superb performers. So, yes, in terms of standard, it has changed now, but I think a lot of those attitudes are still there. Actually, I mean, I pretty much started on the viola, to be honest. It's not always the case now that people start on the violin. I sort of started on the violin. I took the violin up when I was 5 years old, but by the age of 8, I'd heard a viola, and that was it. I didn't want to play a violin anymore. And I'm definitely— you know, there are some viola players who are very able violinists as well. I, you know, I can play the violin, but I would never ever call myself violinist. So viola playing's definitely become more specialized now, I think. And I think the work that you are doing and all the other viola soloists are doing, you know, with the contemporary composers to build up a repertoire as well that is composed for the violin, not adapted. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I think as well that's maybe why there are so many viola players who are interested in contemporary music, because we don't have that size of repertoire from years gone by. And so we need more music, which I think helps us to be very open to contemporary music and to working with composers. Now I'm going to ask you a very personal question. When you decided to start and become a viola player and you heard that those, you know, jokes about viola player and everything, were you kind of put off by that? Or, I mean, it's sort of a bullism in a way towards the poor viola player. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I was too young when I swapped violas to even know about viola jokes. And I think actually we take it as a sign that we must be more intelligent if people feel that they have to make jokes about us. That's a very good point. Well, the next piece we're going to listen to is Macher Flowers. I'm going to ask Dawn if that's the correct way of pronouncing the title, and what is this poem about? I would say Macher Flowers. There you go, Macher Flowers. Well, it was Emily Doolittle, one of the composers in the project, who asked me. She was interested in exploring the various species of flowers that grow in the Macher, which is land that is close to the sea. All right. I knew that I could do that. I could write short poems about various flowers. I've never actually seen the machair in the Scottish islands, but I'm from Ireland, and I recognized all the flowers from the bog country where I grew up, so that was fine. And then the idea was that Catharine and I would perform this together, which was a real insight. Just feeding off each other's energy was quite a wonderful thing to do. Wonderful. Well, let's listen then to 'Macher' Flowers by Emily Julito, performed by Catherine Bren at the Viola, and with the poem recited by Dawn Wood. Macher. Eye bright. The way you might be born cold bittersweet, but you don't know that yet. The way you sang with your birds from your cot before you knew about speech. The way speech was another planet, but a funny one. When you first said the word, for you it went with food, so you dribbled out luck from the stars to the earth. Bog cotton. To weave the bog cotton into a shirt, wouldn't it take fine fingers? Wouldn't you need time on your hands to tease those brittle strands over a cut? Wouldn't you need to be an optimist to spin away a charm like that? Hasn't the bog the patience of a saint to grow hares' tails from mud? Sea Campion. Though it's a game to turn those little devil's hatties inside out, and look, a ballerina washerwoman with her arms held up to heaven. Keep your distance from the cliff edge where the dead men's bells become the witch's thimbles. Cuckoo flower. Tell me, which came first? The lilac petals of Our Lady's smock and the compass that they pointed to, or the singsong of the cuckoo telling tales about the wain who tore them from their roots? Devil's Bit Scabious. Flattered as I am to have a flower named after me, I've better things to do than to nibble all those roots, and more to worry about than you humans with your plagues and skin diseases and how you might cure them or not. Though it's a pretty enough flower, I'll grant you that, with a light of its own and as old as the hills. Amazing. This was "Majar Flowers" for viola solo and poet, composed by Emily de Litton. And with the poem recited and written by Dawn Wood and performed at the viola by Katherine Wren. Well, what a wonderful array of pieces. I'm really excited, and best of luck with your project, Modern Chance. Um, um, Ruta, um, the last piece we're gonna play today is Ganetry, am I right, Ruta? Yes, that's correct. Ganetry by Emily Doolittle and performed by, uh, Jana Nicholson and Ellie Cherry. Um, would you like to tell us a little bit about this last piece? Yes, so, um, composer Emily Doolittle of course is not here, so I can just I know that when we started this project, Emily was a bit concerned that there are lots of elements to this project, like a Gaelic influence, and you have to find the topic, you have to write something with audience participation, there has to be this onomatopoeic element, and I remember she was telling me that she might need to find a different way of writing music, maybe not the usual way that she writes, because, because she just felt there was a lot to take in and not such a long time to actually maybe write in the way she's used to. So she started experimenting with writing graphic scores, and I think This was the first time that she actually used professional— it in professional way. She used some kind of online program, and of course that would be— it would be lovely if we could all see it. We can't see it on this podcast, but she started writing— instead of writing notes, she started kind of all the research that she's done in the birds, about the birds. So Ganesh is about the birds and all the imitations of clarinet sounds, she kind of started putting into graphics with some instructions, quite a lot of instructions. And then, Don probably would be able to say more because I think poem came in later. So the whole piece starts with a poem by Don. Don, actually, I'm not sure. You probably will know better. When did the poem— come into this piece? Oh, the poem had to be written very quickly, Ruta. I don't know if you remember, so I was given the graphic score that Emily had come up with as a series of slides, and Ruta and Emily said, oh, it would be great to have a poem to go with this, and the poem had to be written within a day or two. But it's amazing how under pressure, you know, the right things come and fit into place. So that's the story behind this poem. Yes, oh yes, I remember it absolutely. Now I remember that it was me. I deleted it from my memory for the time being. Yeah, it's really— so the clarinet actually plays lots of bird sounds. They are quite aggressive and quite— I say aggressive for me, maybe everybody has their own associations, I guess, but they're very very evocative, very strong sounds. Yeah. And Ellie created, um, manipulated some of those sounds to create like live electronics. And she also used some winds, um, and some, uh, some raindrops. So it's a very wild naturalistic piece, Ganetry is. Ganetry. Okay, so, um, it's for clarinet, live electronics, and a poet. So the poet is, um, um, Don reading as well, or it's gonna be— Don will be reading the poem. And just, just before we play this piece, actually, if I, if I may, I would like to, uh, just, um, say that our Modern Chance project is not over. Yep. We are now preparing for the next, uh, stage. We are Putting all the music and poems together into a sound walk, which people will be able to attend from their own homes. So to attend our sound walk, you don't need to travel somewhere. You can just log in from your home and then go on a 45-minute walk accompanied with music instruction and poems around your own area. So yeah, this, this event is— it has a date already. It will be a 27th of February on Sunday, 27th, at 2 PM UK time. And it's created by Sound Festival in Aberdeen. It's not part of festival, it's just part of their one-off events. So, and I think tickets will be available already, probably next week, if you go on— Excellent. Soundofaberdine.co.uk or soundofscotland.co.uk. Yeah, so, and we will be there. It's a bit bigger thing than just a Sound of, but you will be able to book your tickets and then everything will be explained to you. But we would be very, very happy to see as many people as possible in this. Absolutely. Well, let's finish then our episode of Future Crafts Women Awards with 'Ganetry' by Emily de Little and performed by Dan Wood as a poet, Joanna Nicholson and Ellie Cherry. Ganet rock. Fate whispers to the warrior, 'You cannot withstand this storm,' and the warrior whispers back, 'I am the storm.' Maybe at birth I was a boat setting sail on the sea of the waves that happened to me, or maybe I was the wave itself connected with all the water there is, and I could aim for that rock over there and to see what the weather brings my way. There used to be shamans who worked with the wind. They'd carefully gather it into knots, and you could pay them for a string, and you'd undo the knots at sea. To brace yourself, to get your breath on the crest of a wave of the shocking nerve that you'll withstand. You are the wave. You tell yourself that there's no harm in the unexpectedness of rain, though the random randomness of where and when a drop might fall has been described in an equation here and there. Since nothing ever comes from nowhere and there's no sound without a source, the circling seabirds contain the proof The way that knot could store the wind. The puffins and the cormorants, the leeches' petals, herring gulls, the fulmars, all fulfill the energy invested and released in them. But gimlet eyes make up the rock where clacking prehistoric beaks of gannets guard their modicum of space before they plunge through you, the wave. And this was Ganetri, um, by— for clarinet, live electronics, and poem composed by Emily Doolittle, and with poem written and recited by Dawn Wood and Joanna Nicholson and Ali Chari. Again, a big thanks to our guest, composer Ruta Wittgenstein. Koskayte and Gemma McGregor, Viola Catherine Brand and Poe Dunwood for the great chat and the beautiful music played today. Best of luck with your Modern Chance project. Thank you so much. Thank you. You're very welcome. You've been listening to Future Classic Women Awards on Women's Radio Station, live every day at 10 AM and 10 PM London time. If you would like to ask any questions to our guests or nomination for our Future Classic Women Awards, please email presenters@womensradiostation.com or tweet us @WomensRadioSTN. And if you would like to listen to it again or catch up on our previous programs, you can head to my presenter's page, Stefania Passamonte, Future Classic Women Awards on womensradiostation.com. Thank you for listening.