Future Classic Women Awards – Gabriella Di Laccio 040324

Hello and welcome to the 6th edition of Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station, the program where we search for the most amazing new female artists on the classical panorama. Today on Future Classic Women Awards, we have a very special guest. That's the wonderful soprano Gabriella Di Laccio. Good morning, Gabriella. Good morning. Good morning, Stefania. Thank you for having me here. You're very welcome. Now, this is a very special morning. It's soon after an incredible— the longest acoustic music livestream concert that is hoping to smash the Guinness World Record, um, of a concert. How many hours it was? Well, we did 26 hours and 21 minutes of music by women composers and non-binary composers nonstop, including all sorts of genres from classical to jazz, folk, singer-songwriter, contemporary. It was amazing. That is amazing. So this happened in London at the Brazilian Embassy. Yes. And I mean, how did you have people performing, I don't know, at 2 in the morning, 3 in the morning? How did that happen? Well, you know, I also, when I had this crazy idea, I thought— It is crazy. Yes, yes, slightly. There was a reason though, but I thought this was going to be difficult, but you know, we had a waiting list of people in the end who wanted to perform, and we couldn't fit everyone. For everybody. Yeah, we couldn't because we had a window. The Embassy of Brazil was so generous to give us the venue, and we were there from 12 o'clock on Thursday, the 22nd of February, until 2:30-ish Friday, the 23rd of February. So the middle of the night was actually quite easy. It was amazing. It was really incredible. Were you there for the whole 26 hours or you managed to go home, for example? No, it was my idea. I was there. I didn't sleep, I think for almost 40 hours because I was there in the morning from 10 on Thursday and We did this with very, very limited budget because the foundation doesn't have regular funding. But we had so much collaboration from, first of all, all the artists who took part. I was singing 3 times because I want to do my part. So especially in the middle of the night, I thought not many people would want to do it. So I put myself at 3 AM. I help us. 10, at 2 in the afternoon. And also, if somebody didn't show up, I had to be ready to do something, you know. But in the end, to step in. Oh my gosh. So it was, uh, no, no, I, and I couldn't sleep, you know. If you were there in the room on the day, the energy was so magical. It was, I would never forget for the rest of my life. I think it's one of the most amazing experiences I I had in my life, actually. It's been incredible. But I can't, you know, I have my fair share of organizing concerts, organizing things, and I do know the stress that there is before and after, you know, the relief, you know, after finally everything goes as it is supposed to go. I cannot imagine, and I have been stepping in as well. That's the problem of organizing and being as well a performer. So yes, when you're a performer, you know, you have no excuse. This is the hardest part, as you know. You know, when you are part of— you, you, you know everything that needs to happen, but at the same time you need to divide your brain to a moment when you need just to be an artist and perform. And for me, that was the hardest. Uh, there was one moment, I think 6:00 AM or something, I can't remember now, that somebody was a bit late and there was 5 minutes, and I actually had to to sit on the piano. No, no, I did no time to warm up. I had to go and sing a piece, and then I just did a song by Billie Eilish, and my voice was, you know, breaking. And, oh wow. But, you know, but it was amazing because I know everybody was committed, you know, and I was smiling. And I'm not a pianist, but it was, you know, everybody I knew probably one-third of the performers. There were over 100 people involved performing. Wow. But everybody who would arrive at the room, it was, we were like a family, you know, the commitment, the joy, the, honestly, it was really moving. I cried a lot, many times. If you, if people were watching, I would come on, I will come every hour. We had a 5 minutes We were entitled to 5 minutes break, but we didn't do it every hour. We did every 2, 3 hours. And I would come and talk to the people. And it was, you know, I was half smiling, half emotional because everything went so well, you know. And it was magical. Well, I remember, Steve, when we met the very first time, we were at the beginning of this very radio program, the Future Future Classical Women Awards. And I remember how you just started, done a foundation, and we were talking about the fact that people were not betting on having things focused on women's music because they said there is not enough women. And I think we defied all the bets and the odds and showed that actually there is even more than the 26 hours that you've done, if you wanted to, of music of women and, and 6 years years of a radio program. So congratulations to you. Um, why don't we start by listening, um, to a song by an Italian composer called Francesca Caccini, and it's called Chi desidera di saper cosa è amore, who would like to know what is love, sung by our wonderful Gabriella Di Laccio. Chi ho del saper che cos'è amore? Chi vi domanderà s'amore, io sento che ho gli occhi, il mio fuoco è tutto spento, che non trovo più tormento, che io non tremo nel pavimento, che io nel vivo ogni And this was Chi desidera sapere che cos'è amore, Who Would Like to Know What Is Love, by Italian composer Francesca Caccini, sung by our beautiful guest of Future Classical Women Awards, Gabriella Di Laccio. Gabriella, tell me a little bit before we go on about this song. And this is a beautiful song. Francesca Caccini is an incredible Italian composer. Would you like to tell us a little bit more? Yes. Well, Francesca, many people know her father, no? Giulio Caccini. Yes. But when I started the Donne, Women in Music, and I started almost like a passion project because I discovered an encyclopedia that had 6,000 women composers, and I felt like, oh my God, I don't know 20 women composers. This was back in 2018. So I knew of Francesca Caccini, but I had never sung her music. So when I started to learn and, you know, put more repertoire by women composers in my concerts and every time I performed. Of course, I am a Baroque specialist as well, so I started to look into her music. But, you know, her music is incredibly beautiful, but her story is also incredible because at some point she was the highest-paid musician at the Medici court in Florence. And, you know, these are the things that we never learn. You know, we learn about the men, how amazing they were, and then Francisca was part of this incredible circle of powerful women at the time in the court of the Medici and wrote operas and hundreds of songs. Sadly, not all her music survived. But whatever survived, people now do perform more. And when I recorded this album, which is called Donne Barocche, I really wanted to record some of her songs. And this one is, you know, it has a lot of humor, you know, about knowing what love means, which can mean laughter, but also pain. So it's a very special composer who I think people still need to learn more. And she's kind of known as far as we know, to be the first woman who wrote an opera. So, wow, fantastic. Well, you know, Gabriella, I remember very well when we met the first time and you were telling me about how you discovered the encyclopedia by chance. And then, you know, I've had so many conversations and now, you know, 6 years has passed and you see how this thing is growing and becoming bigger. You had You are now having a residency, if I'm not mistaken, at the Royal Albert Hall, where you're also organizing concerts there dedicated to women in music. So how do you feel now about that first day when you discovered the encyclopedia? Did you imagine it would have become what has become right now? Never in my whole life. And I also, I didn't plan it. I know. It was really I as a performer, as an artist, as a woman in music myself, when I discovered that encyclopedia and I recognized that I had my own ignorance to attend to. And I, but I really thought the whole world knew about these women and I was the only one who didn't. So, and then very, very soon I realized that it wasn't like that. So I, created a small website at the time where I listed 4,000 women because I'm not an academic and I wanted these women and this information to leave the pages of that encyclopedia and go somewhere where people would find and it was easy to connect. And so that's why this website, the tiny website was born and I called a big list of women composers. And that was it. I thought I'd done my part as a woman, as an artist. What I didn't count was with the response it was going to have around the world, because in very few months I started to receive messages from women composers from all over the world to say, thank you so much. Oh my God, can you put me on your list? I am a one-woman comp— I am a woman composer giving you a one-woman standing ovation from Australia. And you know, It really showed me how sometimes we don't do things because we think we are only one person. And it proved to me that every action we do to create a little bit of change or to contribute for a more inclusive, you know, world, I would say, it makes a difference. It really does. Donne proved it to me. So now, 6 years on, well, I think mostly the organization is recognized all over the world. All the resources which are free are used by performers, by academics, by festivals, by orchestras, you know, anybody who wants to, you know, learn more about women or try to find music by women, they use it. And Um, it still has no funding, you know. I joke now, I joke, but you know, the, the longest, the longer it gets, the more committed I am because I think I learned so much in the past 6 years. It's like you open your eyes to see how many people are still, uh, not included and also how, what the audiences that we are trying to to bring to our concerts. You know, if we do not play music that reflects all cultures, all diversity, you know, how can we make people feel welcome? So I am, you know, I joke that I started this project and my fuel was passion. Now it's passion and anger. I really want to create a bigger change. And I think the idea of breaking the record It was really a, I wanted to do something bigger than myself and push myself to not only break the record, but to create a movement that would influence change and connect more people. And it's been absolutely incredible. It is incredible. You know, what you're saying is something that strikes me, you know, as you know, I founded the music conservatory, music university, and that's another crazy thing. And I didn't, think when I started as a pianist that one day I would be where I am, having a radio program in this amazing award-winning radio station that is the Women's Radio Station, or the London Performing Academy of Music, of being where I am, you know, in the music industry. Um, may I say, could be the same for you. You know, you were born, if you like, with the passion for music and becoming a celebrated soprano, and then you end up being a champion for women in music. And when this sort of responsibility somehow falls on your shoulder, you have no choice but to keep going, isn't it? And what is incredible as well, I think, is that sometimes, you know, although maybe you feel tired of what you're doing because, and you feel angry, as you said, because there is no funding, because it's a continuous fight to try to keep this life alive as it deserves to be, there is also the responsibility of knowing that that falls on your shoulder because someone knew you had the right shoulder to carry this responsibility. What do you think? Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I say all back to you, all the things you built as well. In the past years. Oh my God. I think we're all both so busy doing stuff that we don't even have time to meet, me and you. But I know, oh my God, it's, I can, I'm always watching from afar and, and, and it's exactly that, you know, we are so committed that there is no way back. The only way is forward. Yes. How, how can you go back? And, and, and every time I go out and yes, there are days I'm tired. Of course there are days, I can imagine you are as well. And you just feel like, okay, I don't think I can do this anymore. But you know what happens? Then I go out and then I'm in a concert or before me and then one person will come to me and say, thank you so much for what you're doing. Please don't stop. You know, or I receive an email or there is a story or there is, you know, and these things really is like when we are musicians and we go on stage and even if we're tired and if we manage to communicate the music and the audience looks at you and you get that energy back, this is priceless. This is our fuel. And for me, yes, of course, there are days I'm tired. Do I believe the music industry as a whole, the people with money should be more involved? Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. And I'm calling all of you guys, you know, all the record labels, all the publishers, all the streaming, all the people who actually make money with music. Yes. Because artists, you know, a huge majority of artists in the world don't make a lot of money from music, but— I would say 90, 95%, if not 99%. Really, the people that make a living, if not a comfortable, successful career, you can count them on the finger, you know, on the tip of your fingers. Exactly. So I, I, I, one thing I, I, I think really strikes me in creating this movement is like, I really think I see a lot of amazing individuals doing amazing things, uh, but I, I really believe we need to shift from individual initiatives to a collective action that has a, a great support. And I think when I wanted to do this thing, it was just the beginning of we need to unite, we need to be stronger as a group to push. I think the change should be led by the top, you know, in an ideal world, but it's not. So we are here now to kind of demand this change. It's time now. And I'm tired sometimes, yes, many people are, but this is not going to stop me. We're past that now. It will. Well, let's listen to the next song. That's Amor Dormiglione. It's an aria by Barbara Strozzi, another wonderful Italian composer of the Baroque period, sung by our special guest Gabriella Di Laccio. Amor cotardo, amor codordo, qual è il resto che del mio ardore tu dorma more? Mancava, mancava And this was Amor Dormiglione by Barbara Strozzi, sung by our guest of Future Classic Women Awards, Gabriella Di Laccio. Gabriella Barbara was another incredible woman of the Italian Baroque period, the Renaissance. I think she was the most published woman at the time, and she was able to live independently without being married thanks to the music that she published. Absolutely. She's a— Honestly, a star, Barbara. I think, if I'm not mistaken, she was the most published composer, not only woman composer, in Venice at the time. She was an entrepreneurial woman. She managed to survive, as you said, without either becoming a nun— no, because you also, you either would become a nun and the church would support you, or you would marry. And she didn't do either. She— I mean, people said she was a courtesan, but by a courtesan, I mean, it was somebody who was highly educated. She would perform, spoke languages, knew philosophy, and, and, you know, it was always surrounded by intelligent people of Venice and in all circles. And she was very clever because she meant— she thought, I to publish my music. And that's why we have 8 books with her songs, because she was— many other composers didn't, didn't have that vision. And she managed to, as I said, survive without a husband and without the church. Yeah, yeah. She had many children outside marriage, and I think it all started that she was even raped, and she just refused to get married and, uh, to the perpetrator. And yeah, I don't, I don't think she had an easy life, you know, and, uh, but she was extremely courageous, brave, and, uh, very respected. This is something that, uh, happens to a lot of women in history. They were extremely respected by their peers at the time. But then I don't know what happens with history, you know, the people forget about it and then they just put them on the— oh yes, and then there was a woman, oh, and she was the sister of this. And actually in real time, in Baroque time, she was highly respected. So yes, it's a— I don't know, mysteries, mysteries of— yeah, I would have loved to have met her, Barbara Strozzi, honestly, because I think she's a— and then It's unfortunate there is only one painting of her, and when she— and there is a breast, how more or less the people would think that she's showing her breast, but it's not really. And then because of that, they go, oh yes, she was a courtesan, she was a prostitute. It's like, no, no, no. People like this label, right? It was this incredible entrepreneurial woman who did what many men didn't do it at the time. So I love her music and she was a singer, so she writes beautifully for the voice as well. So, so good to sing her songs. You know, about having the breast exposed, um, I was just seeing recently a beautiful documentary on art that is on a program on the television, and they were talking about this very clever woman um, is a painting about— this was, um, something about the mannerism, um, and the reason why there was certain things happening in the painting. Um, to me, the interpretation of that, it could be, um, either that she was like the mother of more, um, artists that came after her in the way of the amazing, um, publishing treasure that she left behind as a composer. Or at the same time, sometimes it might have been, you know, a meaning, a bad meaning painting, like to try to discredit her. So to make her to look like she was successful because she was also a courtesan. Now, this is something that happened today again. If we want to be completely honest, how many times we have of amazing women that are successful and people ask, what is their husband doing? Yeah, I've been asked many times and my husband is not into music, so everything I've done is thanks to me. Although, to be honest, I have to be very grateful to my husband that keep up with me, my husband and my daughter, you know, when I'm practicing in the evening or when I'm having to be away for, for work. So I wouldn't be able to do that if I didn't have a husband that was supporting morally, but not in the industry, as you want to say. So do you see that? Is that true? Is misogyny in music and everything that we— there's been research about it from BPI, from the Musicians' Union. It's still something that happens very today. It's so present. The latest report, yeah, the misogyny in the music industry is so sad. To read. Sadly, it is not surprising because, you know, we know. And it's really strange because we women, we take things into our stride and we try not to make a big thing about it. But I never thought I had a lot of misogyny that happened in my career. Then suddenly you start, hold on a minute, Oh yeah, that thing happened to me. Oh yes, that thing happened to me. And because we just kind of, oh yes, of course, that guy tried to push me in the corner and kiss me. Hahaha, he was a bit drunk. And then you start remembering all the things that has been happening. And you just, as a woman, because we feel embarrassed that, oh, we shouldn't talk about this. Oh, maybe I did something that he may— and it's absolutely still present. It's much worse for women of color, is worse for if you are gay. It's so many layers of the barriers that women have to face still. And as you said, there is, you know, I have colleagues who are the lead of a jazz band, for example. And when they get to the venue, they think they are the secretary or something. And they just kind of ask them to serve them a coffee. You know, it's absurd because, and of course, it's still present. Yeah. What is worse, you know, when you have like people trying to push in the corner and kiss you or, you know, touching you inappropriately. Sometimes there is this idea that you have to keep up with that because, you know, you're a woman, maybe you're beautiful looking and that's normal that people will give you attention, will try out with you. But there is not the same expectation on men. What do you think? No, absolutely not. So we are grown up by our mothers, by our friends, with the fact that, yes, you're pretty, you need to be careful because people are going to try with you, and you just need to try not to put yourself in this situation where they can take advantage of you. So if that something happened, then you feel like it's your responsibility because you wanted to have have a career in the arts or in the movies. It's even movies, but music is the same, really, unfortunately. And then it also constrains how we behave or how we want to dress, you know. Exactly. Yes. If you want to wear something that is more sexy, you know, oh my gosh, what are they gonna say? Is this appropriate? You know, we've seen women being, uh, called on media, you know, just because they were wearing a short skirt or a V-neck that is too deep. Honestly, it's, um, it's the position of your picture, the color of your lipstick, even just the color of your lipstick. If it's too red, what's the message you're trying to give out? Sometimes it's just the lipstick depending on the dress, you know. If I have a red dress, I have to have the same type of color of the lipstick. That's my idea. Idea. No, I'm, I'm on that one as a lost cause because I love red and I always wear red lipstick. So, lost cause. I like that. Well, the next song we're going to listen to is another Italian composer called Caterina Domenici, but the title is Vigal Lise Weber. I don't know actually about this aria. Would you like to tell us something about it? Yeah, Yes. So this is a very moving story because Ilse Weber, who is actually the composer, and the song is called "Wiegele," is a lullaby. And Ilse Weber, she was a Jewish kind of playwright more than composer, but she also wrote music for children. And sadly, she was sent to Theresienstadt. The ghetto of Theresienstadt with her family in the time of the war. And she didn't want to separate the family, so she managed to send one son on the Kindertransport to Sweden— to the UK, then Sweden. But one son stayed with her. And while she was in the ghetto, which was, I think, 4 years, she was writing songs, simple songs and plays to entertain the elderly and the children in the hospitals. And when in 1944 they came to take them to Auschwitz, and she went to Auschwitz with her son, and, and they all— and sadly she died. And the story says that she was playing her guitar, or I think she has she had a lute, and singing this song when they walked into the gas chamber. So this is a story that I found out because of my research with women. And, you know, Elisabeth Weber was not a famous composer, but, you know, for me, this song is just a— it was my, my way of giving homage to all these unknown people who who made the lives of these people at that horrible time better. And at the end of the war, her son who survived, he went back to Theresienstadt. And before she left to Auschwitz, they buried her books. And he found— that's why we have these songs. So this song is a very simple lullaby, but my dear friend, amazing composer Catarina Domenici in Brazil, made this beautiful arrangement for piano and voice. And yeah, it's very moving. The words are very simple. She's just talking— it's in German. She's just talking about the birds and the nightingale, and it's time to go to sleep. But anyway, you'll hear it. Let's listen to Wiegala by Ilse Weber, arranged by Caterina Domenici Fora. Our guest Gabriella Tilaccio. Alle die singt ihr Lied. Vigala, Vigala, Vajra. Der Wind spielt auf der Lajja. Vigala, Vigala, Varuna. Er steht am dunklen Himmelszelt und schaut hernieder auf die Welt. Vigala, Vigala, Varuna. The moon is the dealer turner. Wie, Gala, wie, Gala, wie, wie ist die Welt so still? Es stört keinen laut, diese Siren. Schlaf, mein Kindchen, schlaf auch du. Vigala, vigala, vigala. Wie ist die Welt so still? And this was Wigela by Ilse Weber, um, um sung by our beautiful guest of Future Classic Women Awards, Gabriella Di Laccio. Gosh, Gabriella, you touched a very touching subject. I was just reading, I am a big fan of Slipped Disc, and there is this beautiful column called Ant— oh my gosh, I'm so bad with names. Anyways, like Agony Ant column. And the woman that is writing this, I think it's a woman, is just so beautiful, the way she's so good at replying to people. And she was writing to someone from Israel that got the opportunity to get a job and go perform somewhere else in another nation. And so he would avoid to be drafted for the current war that is happening in Israel. And he wasn't sure what to do. And this lady, she was telling how her teacher was in the concentration camp and he was a musician and he had the opportunity to play for the SS and for the people going to the gas chambers and how being a musician Somehow it's a responsibility. It's a gift, but it's also a responsibility. And no matter what happened, you will find yourself to have a reason to play. And so this woman, she had the opportunity to probably sing the lullaby to the fellow prisoners for helping them to go to sleep in a place that was hell on earth. Yeah. I don't know, every time I sing this song and I tell the story, it's very hard because I'm always in tears when I finish explaining the story. And then I have to sing. It's absolutely impossible. No, but you know, Because the song, you know, is so, um, it has this fragility, uh, in it. So I guess if I start and my voice is almost broken, I think people will understand. Uh, but it's, you know, we, we will never know, you know, and there's so many musicians who, as you said, had to play, uh, when the people were arriving and they felt really guilty because almost like they were contributing to to this horrible— but, you know, I'm sure music was an important part of, you know, the lives of people while they were there. And so many people— and art as well, no? There were so many people who, who were drawing and, and trying to make the best of, you know, this moment in history, which is Benoît, talking about the importance of art, we only have 5 minutes left. No! I cannot believe it. I need to talk with you forever and ever. You know what? How about we have another appointment? Sorry, another interview again when the music from your marathon will be ready and you can handpick some of the music of the marathon that we can play during the interview and we can chat more. But just to finish up, I always had the idea that if you were teaching music in prison, the prisoners might find a good reason not to go out and do crimes, but maybe live out of music, you know, for example. And I always had this idea back on my mind. And then I read that in India, they had a program where they taught the criminals the Indian raga, the classical Indian music. And then when they came out, they actually started working as teachers and professional musicians, and they never went back to— Amazing. To the life of crime again. So I do believe, you know, once you get to understand music and you get to understand, you know, music is not just the pleasure of it. There is so much more. There is messages. There is, um, uh, like what you're doing, you know, what we are doing, bringing humanity humanitarian missions or campaigning for women's rights or equality and diversity and inclusion and mental health. It's everything and everywhere. And it's in nature. And it starts just from listening to the nightingale singing, if you like. So I think what we should really give out as a message finishing this interview is that we really need the funding to keep this going. Because you remember when we had the COVID and they put music and arts as the last useful job? Yeah, I know. When they then asked everyone, you know, to perform and to keep the spirit high, the morals high, and avoid people, you know, going into depression, if not killing themselves or doing worse. So really, let's call everyone that is listening to this program and who's listening, following the Donny Foundation, And, you know, to support us, to donate and to spread the news, spread the voice, spread the importance of music and the arts and the support. Well, last song we're going to listen to is Lua Branca by Francisca Gonzaga. Just very briefly, what can you tell us about this song? Okay, Francisca Gonzaga was a pioneer in Brazil. So I'm Brazilian, so I had to finish with a Brazilian song. And she was not the first woman to conduct, to live as a musician in Brazil, but also involved into anti-slavery movement, suffragette, everything. And this song is just a beautiful ballad about the moon and love. And again, rearranged by my wonderful colleague, Caterina Domenici. Who is a very talented composer too. Fantastic. Let's listen to Lua Branca by Francisca Gonzaga, arranged by Katarina Domenici and sung by our guest Gabriella Di Laccio. "Ó lua branca de fulgores e de encantos, se é verdade que o amor tu das abrigo. Vem tirar dos olhos meus o pranto. Ai, vem matar essa paixão que anda comigo. Ai, por quem és descer o céu a lua branca? Essa amargura do meu peito, aí vem arrancar. Dá-me o louvor da tua compaixão, aí vem, por Deus, iluminar meu coração. E quantas noites lá no céu me aparecias a brilhar em noite clara e constelada. A tua luz então me surpreendeu, ajoelhado junto aos pés da minha amada. E ela chorar, a soluçar cheia de beijo, vim em seus lábios me ofertar um doce beijo. Ela partiu, me abandonou assim. So this was Lua Branca by Francisca Gonzaga, sung by our wonderful guest of Future Classical Women Awards, Gabriela Di Laccio. Unfortunately, our interview has to finish now because we have no more time, but Gabriella is gonna be back, I promise. And if you have any questions that you would like to ask to our guest or nomination for our future Classic Women Awards, please email presenters@womensradiostation.com or tweet us @WomensRadioSTN. Again, a big thanks to our guest Gabriella Di Laccio from Donne Foundations for the great chat and amazing music. Play today. Thank you so much for having me. Uh, honestly, we can talk forever. Indeed, I can't wait to have you back to listen more about this incredible marathon of the longest acoustic music livestream concert that just happened. So we're gonna listen more about this. You've been listening to Future Classic Women Awards on Women's Radio Station, live every day at 10 AM and 10 PM London time. And if you would like to listen to it again or catch up on our previous program, you can head to my presenter's page, Stefania Passamonte, Future Classical Women Awards, on womensradiostation.com. Thank you for listening.