Future Classic Women Awards – Lisete Bull

Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station, the program where we search for the most amazing new female artists on the classical panorama. Today on Future Classic Women Awards, we have a very special guest, recorder and baroque flutist Lisette da Silva Bull. Hello, Lisette! Hello, Stefania! Hello, so happy to see you. I mean, although we're still doing it in remote, how are you hanging on with this storm? I mean, I don't know for you, but for me it's still— the wind is so strong. Yeah, it is, it is quite strong, and it has been a little bit scary at times, but we are okay. I had a concert on Saturday and I managed to drive to London to do it. Oh wow! There were a few trees on the way, but not too bad, not too bad. Still quite windy though. That's amazing, and people managed to come to the concert? Yes, we did, the whole orchestra and the choir, and yeah. We're all there. I was a bit late because of the debris on the road, but I got there. Well, you know, I was supposed to be in Zurich to do a concert myself, and the train completely stopped because there were trees on the tracks, and I was stuck between stations. There was no taxi who would bring me to the airport, the flight was delayed, and forget it. So basically I missed it. We have to reschedule later on. I mean, we got the storm, Eunice, And then we got the war. I was supposed to go to Kyiv tomorrow, actually, and the plane have been cancelled as well. Somehow, you know, we give it for granted, isn't it? First we had the pandemic and we couldn't travel. Now we got the storm and now we got the war. And it's like, come on, we need a break. Come on, people. Come on, world. Come on, universe. Like, stay home. Yeah. Well, how was your, you know, your pandemic? Did you perform? Did you record? I know you've been very active. Would you like to tell us? Yes. I mean, I'm very lucky that I am a member of the Brook Street Band, and it's an all-female band, fabulous women. And we got an award from the Arts Council to do a project during the pandemic to keep working. And so we did a series of master classes online, and we all recorded at home. And, you know, this all went to our YouTube channel. And the funny thing is that in a way, because of how we had to do things, and because in virtue of the masterclasses, for instance, I had live people watching from 26 countries at a time. The, the rooms were full, full of listeners. Amazing. Because everyone was home, and it was a real privilege for me actually to share what I'm passionate about and all my research. Um, and that was amazing because we made friends, um, from— and there were literally people from the four corners of the world tuning in, um, wow, to hear me talk and, and teach. So that was really quite amazing. So you are a recorder and baroque flutist, right? So how is it to be so much into the early music, if you want, you know, the baroque, like being in a different century and then being suddenly catapulted, you know, in the 21st century, having to deal with computers and microphones and sound and how the two goes together? Well, not brilliantly all the time, but it's a learning curve. I am very lucky that my wonderful husband is UX designer, so he is in IT and he helps a lot. All right. And I've got really good computer, I've got really good setting, really fast internet, so I have help. Very good. Amazing. And so tell us a little bit, how did you decide to become a recorder and baroque flutist? Well, this is a very long story, but a very sweet one. I grew up on the outskirts of Lisbon with parents who weren't particularly musical, with a mother who'd come from a farm and had only primary school education, but she felt really strongly that her children needed to have both physical and mental stimulus. And I think she read some— she was a very intelligent woman, so we had a local music school And so I started at 5 in a local music school, and I never looked back. I knew I wanted to be a musician. Oh, and I think when I picked up— because I played the piano first, and I played what I call the modern flute, the metal flute— and I fell in love with the recorder, and it was really a love affair, and with early music. And about 15, I was very lucky to do a big international course in the north of Portugal with international staff, all the sort leading experts of the time, a long time. And, um, the teacher, um, we had to audition to be in the master class, and I was the youngest, and I was one of the 5 chosen. And I ended up then coming to the Royal Academy of Music to study with him. Oh wow. And, um, full scholarship, entrance exhibition, the whole shebang. He really was, was amazing. He saw potential in me, and that's why I end up being in London, in England, really. Through the Royal Academy who gave me every opportunity, and I stayed there for 5 years. And it's just— it is a pull, it is just a love, and I can't really explain it. It's just something I love, the early instruments and the early woodwind, and I love both the performance and the research part of it, the academic part, and I think the two really go together very beautifully. And yeah, I mean, it's just what, you know, what it is like to be a performer and be on stage and to just completely be in love with the music and the sound world. And that's really it. It's the thing that keeps us breathing, isn't it? Well, I have a very crazy question then. I mean, you're talking about the research and the Baroque music. How did you meet your husband, who is instead so much into IT and technology? How does technology and Baroque music go together? Funnily enough, We met online, and that was really funny because— yes, we met online actually, but he's not a musician, he's also an academic, he's got PhD in linguistics, he's a very bright man, he has lots of degrees, and that was it, we clicked, and that's it, and he's a great supporter, which is fantastic. Wonderful. Now, you said you are in this wonderful ensemble of only women. Can you tell us a little bit how it is to be in an ensemble made by just women? Is it different than playing with men? What's special about this ensemble? Well, I think it is very special to me because they're all family. We all found each other, and it's a very supportive group. It's very different from— well, it is, it is, and it is, it isn't in a way. I think there is definitely a diff— can be a different energy working with men. I used to work a lot in ensembles that were mainly male, actually, and this is the first time apart from a trio I had a long time ago, I've been in this group. I was invited to join in quite a long time ago, and they're very well established, very well known, and they're, you know, recording artists and known worldwide. And I just felt I fitted in. I found a family of musicians who were like-minded, and it's really important actually as women to have that support, and to be able to make music together. It's been a real godsend, and in a way, actually, when you make music, it doesn't make a difference whether it's female or male. Absolutely. We all carry different energies, it doesn't matter. What matters is the quality, and that, you know, we gelled well together, and we read each other's minds musically. It's, you know, when you play with somebody for so long, it's It's a wonderful symbiosis, really symbiosis. Well, you know, this, this program is about music, of course, but it's also part of the Women's Registration that is a strong— has a strong mission about mental health, about equality, and about the challenging challenges of any job, really, of being a woman in different sectors. And I think sometimes the, the fact of being, um, working with other women that they have the same physical and mental problem, because it's part of being a woman really, being a mother, being, um, isn't it? Um, somehow it's easier to communicate maybe. What do you think? Well, I think when it comes— I think you're very right. I think we both We all, you know, all 5 of us, we've got core 5, all apart from one of the others, and it's much— it's a nice thing to be able to be in an environment where that is understood and that is supported, really. I think as women we tend to be more open to talk about our feelings and how things are. I mean, you've got to create a balance when you're working, it's about the work. Of course. But outside that, you know, we can all talk about our children, what our issues are at the moment, and we can find ways of supporting each other. And we definitely, definitely do support each other. And I can tell you, I mean, I've got British citizenship now, and it's thanks to the wonderful Tati Theo and her husband actually, who also helped by being a reference and having a place in this group. As a self-employed musician, and that she was one of the people who wrote a letter as part of my application because I'm part of this group. And that was— I'm really grateful, really. No, absolutely. Now I'm telling you this because I had a very silly man, and that happened, uh, who wrote me on LinkedIn commenting about the program and saying, you know, that it was unfair that we were only talking about women. And I was like, well, but this is a women's radio station. And this is about the challenges of being a woman in this work. And he says, well, you know, you wanted to, to get this job, so you just have to deal with it. And I was like, well, first of all, well, I, I just stopped talking because clearly this person wasn't worth the conversation. He completely missed the point of this program. But I had other guests that they just went through miscarriage, for example. This is something that is very difficult to explain. I mean, of course Of course, the father that goes with the mother through the miscarriage of the wife will feel the loss, but it's never as much as when it's actually inside your body, isn't it? And so there is things that are really part of our body and our being that, for as much as a man can understand and can try to be supportive, will never be, I think, understood in full as when it is another woman. Now, did you ever have problem instead of working with women because you were a woman? Um, I'm just trying to think. Only a long, long time ago, because I am quite outspoken. Yeah. And I'm quite, you know, um, sort of— I've got a big brain and I'm outspoken. And also, but I'm also emotional, emotionally intelligent. And so I'm quite able to articulate how things— if things don't feel right, I will and I remember two male musicians basically telling me that, not that I was hysterical, that was not, but I was unbalanced because I was daring to say actually, because there were bullies in the group basically, and really pushing, pushing down, and they did not want to be questioned, and the very sort of passive-aggressive and sort of you know, testosterone, I suppose, and very overwhelming, and I didn't like it. And I said it, and I was basically, um, you know, shut out of the group by them both. Oh wow. They came to my house and talked to me and said I was mentally unstable. Very nice, very nice. I mean, this is absolutely horrific. Yeah. And they're not particularly nice, and I think they just the way they are. But, um, yeah, that was a great lesson for me. And this was— I was very young in my '80s, um, and it really, really hurts, you know. Yeah, well, it's true that we have a different way to express ourselves sometimes, and I understand that there's two different— somehow, somehow, sometimes it's like different languages, isn't it? But it's unfair when it's taken as a point Yes. Then say, you know, instead of working together is working against. Um, and, um, yeah, I think this person in particular, and, and then we will finish talking about this, um, might have felt there is now a lot about equality and diversity and inclusion, and somehow the balance goes the other direction. So you get excluded because you are a man, or even more because you are a white man, isn't it? And, um, and that's unfair too. So the truth is we need to, uh, establish again a balance where you're actually asked to perform or to work because you are the best at what you're doing, not because you're a woman or because you're a man or because you're a different, you know, diverse or anything, isn't it? Absolutely, yes. Well, this is the thing, I think, you know, there are crazy people everywhere, and some people just don't like being challenged. Or feel that, you know, they are wrong in any way, shape, or form. Well, now we're gonna listen to the first track of today, that is Handel, the Trio Sonata No. 1 in B minor, and then we're gonna talk about this. Okay, thank you. Let's listen to it. How beautiful! Wow! This was Handel Trio Sonata No. 1 in B minor performed by Elisette da Silva Poole. Are you playing here the recorder or the baroque flute? Baroque flute. Baroque flute. Would you like to tell us about the other performer? Yes, I mean, it's a beautiful piece. There's two versions of this piece, one in C minor for the violin and one in B minor for the flute, and it's just actually which is actually one of my favourite pieces by Handel. That third movement of that trio sonata is particularly exquisite, which is why I chose it. It's very vocal, and I think there's something wonderful about that sort of quality in the piece of music. And I think there's also something really special and really hard to play, which is slow music. I love the challenge of the phrasing, the breath control, and everything that entails to make it as voice-like as possible. And it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. Well, now I'd like to talk about Handel. I mean, Handel, he was a German-British Baroque composer, right? So what is wonderful is that he grew up and studied in Germany, in Hamburg, and also in Italy. So he was an exponent of the Italian opera Baroque music and the polyphony. German style, and he brought all these to England. And so he became a British citizen like you and me, and ended up being British. So he's a kind of, you know, like what we are today, exactly the same, you know, brought to this country to do music, and then we embrace the English way of life and we become British. And, you know, I was asked when we had Brexit about my feeling about Brexit, and I remember I did speak about Handel and saying, you know, for musicians it's absolutely normal to travel from a country to another. You want to do that because it makes you more international, and also music is a universal language, isn't it? As you said, you did these wonderful masterclasses having people from all the countries around the world, and they all understood what you were saying because music doesn't need to be translated. And, uh, and Handel was a perfect example that he didn't become British because he feared he would be kicked out from this country. He became British because he, he was appreciated and very much, uh, beloved. And he, he paid back, you know, embracing, I think, this country. And with this spirit, I became British, and I guess you did too. Um, I think Brexit Brexit was more of a push towards this. But before Brexit, I never thought I was a stranger in a way in this country, no, because we were European, we were part of these, and we, we could be anywhere. We could be in France, we could be in Germany, we could be in Italy or in Portugal. And the importance about what you were doing in that country, that was making music. How international is the ensemble where you're playing? Well, quite international. I mean, we've played in different countries, but I'm Portuguese, and then Rachel is half, I think, Swedish and British, but she lives in Germany. Oh, wow. And so she flies in to work, and then the other three are British, but Tati has Hungarian, and Greek, Hungarian and Greek, British. So yeah, but we all— I think you're absolutely right. I think the thing that unites us all, wherever you are, wherever we are, is the language of music and our love for music. That's such a powerful, powerful thing that crosses all barriers, all ages, all everything. It's a spiritual thing, actually. Absolutely. And now, how is it classic Baroque music particularly today. I mean, this is an incredible country where Baroque music is as popular as normal classical music in a way. What do you think? Well, I think, I think so, and I think it's become more and more mainstream. I think there was a big revival of this music in the '60s, and there were lots of really important people in this country, for instance, that really helped it along, and in Holland and in Germany, all over. And now it's become very much part of the mainstream, and I know that as what we call a modern performer, very often if you're a violinist you get to try baroque bows and to play a baroque violin, for instance, and if you play modern flute you get to try to play baroque flute, and it's more of a sense of how things fit for the music and what, you know, contributes to making the music clear. And I think using the sort of technical side, which is the instrument, plus the sort of historical performance side, which is how you go about to playing it, all contributes. And I think a lot of the young players coming out of music college thankfully now have an idea. And I think a lot of orchestras, modern symphonic orchestras, when playing early music or, you know, pre-18th century or 19th century even, do adopt historical playing techniques with their modern instruments. Well, I do that with the piano. For example, when I'm performing a Baroque composition, I try to respect as much as possible what was the style of playing the embellishment, for example, or the staccato, the detached sound, etc. And that makes the piece even more true, I guess, even if played with the modern piano instead of the harpsichord. Do you still play the modern flute? I teach it. I still do. But my love really is the sort of wooden— there's something about the East, the instrument and the color and the sound world in particular, really, I really connect with. I really, really love. I don't think there's anything wrong with what I call the modern flute, and I think it's a beautiful instrument in its own right. I just really enjoy um, the sort of wooden instruments. What is amazing is that everyone learns music when you are in school. I remember when I was little, um, well, I was already playing the piano since a very early age, but in middle school you would start having music lessons and we all had to play the recorder. Yeah. So it's somehow, it's something that it's, uh, um, kind of at your doorstep, something that it's not making— being too scary because it's something that you can play, you can make the sound of, but then of course to master it at the level of playing Handel or Bach, that's something completely different. So what I wanted to ask is, do you have children coming to you and saying that they would like actually to continue to play the recorder and to master, master it at the highest level? Yes, yes, I do, and I think that's really important. It's a bit of a life mission of mine to dispel myths and misconceptions about the recorder, and I actually really enjoy teaching very little ones because it means I— because I'm a specialist, I'm a professional player, I get to really teach it properly, and it makes a huge, huge difference. I've also written a book for Adorkin Kinsley on how to play the recorder, so I've got a tutor and distribution. And I was very lucky to be asked to do it because I can actually— in the book it's all done correctly, my teaching method is in there, and I've worked with children, and I still do all over the country. I do a lot of workshops with the band and sometimes on my own, and explaining the history and the family of instruments, how important it is, and to really— so that people understand this is a proper instrument in its own right, that it is actually hard to play well. Absolutely. Where you need to really do it properly, that's really, really important. And it's a passion of mine, actually. I'm really glad you asked, Stefania. You are welcome. Well, let's listen now to Bach's Trio Sonata in D minor, and then we talk a little bit more about this. Absolutely fantastic. Uh, Bach. I'm so crazy about Bach. This was a trio sonata in G minor, um, performed by Lisette Dalbouglie. Da Silva Bull with their wonderful trio. Now tell me a little bit, how is it to perform Baroque music, you know, with composers that are not here, where you have somehow to guess their intention, and then performing a piece composed for you especially, like the one by Golden Globe, Grammy, and Emmy-nominated composer Benjamin Walfish? Yes, that is— that's such a good question. Brilliant, I'm so glad. Thank you. It is such a brilliant thing because I'm lucky because I love contemporary music. I love— and Ben Morfish is a fantastic composer, and I was very, very lucky to work with him very closely. And for Park Lane, actually, I did— for the Park Lane series, we got to perform at Bercelruim, Wigmore Hall, all playing contemporary music, which was which was a fantastic thing, on the recorder. And the thing with Baroque music, yes, there is guessing, but there is also immersing yourself in the style and in the world. So what happens is we don't have the gift of recordings, we don't have the gift of talking to the composers, but what we can do is find out about social, economical history. And this is why I love the research, and to me is so important, and that you understand why things were the way they were. Where composers were coming from, what were their duties, were they entitled, were they asked or commissioned specially, did they compose it because they wanted to, were they bound to a mecenas, and also what was happening at the time musically. So what were the influences of the composer, what were the instruments around, what was the other music around. So it's a whole host of things, and of course that Very clear. The closest thing actually is we have two very important things as performers. One is the instrument, so you go to the original designs, so you know how it sounds like, and also what it looked like, so the facsimiles. So we go to original sources, and then we go to treatises of around that time about how to go about playing them. You know, those pieces, they do exist. So it's like being a musical detective, and it's a jigsaw puzzle that you put together. The brilliant thing and the painful thing is that we'll never know, so we can only guess. And so, but, and the most important thing is that we serve the music, and this is not about us, but it's about the music. And equally, when it comes to working with somebody as brilliant as Ben Wholfish, is that we absolutely know what his intention is. And, but the brilliant thing about working with somebody like him, and there was a real mutual sort of work, that he asked us what is possible, and then he would give us a solution, and then would say, well, this works, this doesn't work. And he is a very intense brain, and it was a fantastic experience, and he was really particular. So by the time we got to perform it and record it, it had to be just right. And if what you Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, no, no, sorry. Well, it is, you know, proven as well with opera and with any other pieces composed by composers when they— for instruments that they were not their own instrument, where they work together with the artists of the time. Normally they would be some virtuoso in the flute or in the violin or in the singing opera. Think about the Queen of the Night, for example. That's still one of the most difficult arias ever. And Mozart wanted for a soprano who was able to actually reach those top notes and showcase their unique abilities. So I think the process is exactly the same that happened at the time of Bach or Handel, isn't it? Yes, of course it is, of course. And they had— Handel had these wonderful singers around him that he worked very closely with. Bach had his orchestra in Leipzig, for instance, where I lived for such a long time. And so there are also very funny anecdotes notes about them fighting and quarrelling with the musicians and the singers. So, you know, it's not necessarily an easy process, but it is a creative process and very passionate process. Yeah, absolutely. Well, the next piece we're gonna listen to is Dornel. So Louis-Antoine Dornel is a French composer, and I never heard of him before. Do you know why? Well, because it's not a big— I mean, I think French Baroque, and this is another thing I'm really passionate about, I started PhD research in the music of Rameau and French Baroque, and it's been with me for a long time. I've lived with this love. It's not all— they're considered sort of minor composers, but the music is beautiful. It's just not very well known, and this is one of the reasons we recorded a CD of his music. Yeah. It was the first time these pieces, I think, or the second time they were ever recorded, if I'm correct. Still, I think French music, Baroque music, is very strong in France as well. They have amazing orchestras there. France, Germany, Italy, where would you say it was the best place, the most iconic place to perform? For French baroque? For everything. Oh gosh, that's a really good question because I think there's strong currents, that's really good, different countries, and also what we are finding as well which is really curious is that we now have a 21st century way of performing 18th century music. I didn't know that. Yes, absolutely, which means that almost— I mean, in the 18th century you have French and Italian style that dominated Europe, and so the German style has its own style, but it also really encompasses Baroque, French and Italian. Bach does this with his overtures in French style, and he copies directly I think is the Concerto Grosso in A minor as an organ piece, as a concerto for the organ, for instance, verbatim pretty much. So he really had in his mind. But so there was a strong sort of national, but without the bad connotations, sort of approach to it. But now what we find is that the Germans play French Baroque in a sort of their own way. The Italians, the Spanish, certainly the British. And I mean, the thing is, the brilliant thing is that we'll never quite know. I think the French feel they do it the best. As always, sorry about that. I have plenty of French friends, but they always think they're the best at what they do. I was going to say, but yes, that's right. That's why you can't imagine, I was living— when I came to this country studying at Royal Academy like you, I was living with a French French opera singers, and they allowed me to have dinner with them just because I could speak French like them and I could cook lasagna and tiramisu. And then of course it was only French wine. So since then I only drink Italian wine. You know, if I go to a dinner, I bring Italian top wine. It's as good as the French. I'm sure the Spanish is the same. Absolutely, absolutely. With music, I think people are very passionate about the way they do things. I I think the best approach really is to, one, accept that you'll never know, two, that you'll never do it right, it's never going to be perfect, and three, have an open mind and an open heart to learn from each other. The truth lies somewhere in between, you know. I think it's also beautiful though being different in a way because it's what makes things, you know, interesting at the same time. Otherwise it would be boring if we were playing all the same. Oh God, who wants that? Really contribute, you need to contribute your own way, and that's what makes us all as human beings individually unique. Let's say now, now let's say now you are a Portuguese born in Portugal, although you studied actually a lot in Royal Academy and you've been in this country, I guess, for a while. So how do you feel when you perform? Are you Are you a British Baroque, an interpreter of the British Baroque style, or are you Portuguese style, or are you international? What are you? I like to think I'm quite international in the sense, you know, of playing and having, you know, different influences, but I'm Portuguese. Yeah. And I like the fire of the sort of Latin sort of thing, and I like the sort of vivacity of English. It. And I like the sort of passion that comes naturally with my culture, but I think all cultures are passionate as well. So I think, I'd like to think I'm a combination of things, but I'm literally, you know, I'm Iberian, I'm Portuguese, and that's wonderful. Oh yeah, absolutely. And married to, I mean, you said to an American, right? And so— He's British. He's British. Ah, he's British, okay. And do you have children? We do indeed, yes. And how do your children feel? I mean, I have a daughter, my husband is American, and she's British, Italian, American, she doesn't know, she's everything. I think it's, it's a real plus. I think my husband lived and worked in Belgium and lived in Paris as well, so he's quite sort of European in, um, sort of in his outlook, which I really love. And I just think that our children have a richness richness that comes from joining all of that, you know, languages and food, which is really important. Oh yeah. And, you know, because we eat a lot of Portuguese. I love cooking, I really do, and it's really important to all us all to sit around the dinner, sit around together, no devices, and just really enjoy and talk and enjoy the food and the sort of family time. Oh well done to that. I did master that with mine. So we eat Italian, we eat around the table, but she has her own iPad. Bad since the lockdown. I mean, she was just 5, so you can imagine it was just so hard because we were both working and she's an only child and she had no other way. But thanks to technology though, she was able to play with her friends through Skype with these online games. I mean, technology is good and bad, of course, but it did help a lot. We were lucky we had what we had right now. And talking about nationalities, I mean, She is very lucky because she always wins. She likes winning. And so we were watching the Olympic Games, so either it was the American winning or the Italian or the British. That's fantastic. So she wins any— in any case, she wins. Well, the next piece that we're gonna learn and listen to is from this French composer, Louis-Antoine Dornel, and it's the Trio Sonatini Minor. Very beautiful. Dornel, Trio Sonata in E minor. Very, very beautiful. Now we're on the last part of our interview with our guest, recorder and baroque flutist Lizeth da Silva Bull. So I'm going to ask you, first of all, do you have any special hobby? To free your mind or relax? Cooking. Same as here. Yeah, I love cooking. And I quite like walking. And because of where we live, we've got fields, and there are two things that really keep me sane. And I really, really enjoy that. I really enjoy being out in the fresh air and just really walking and walking fast. I used to run, but I can't anymore because my knees are a little bit— they got shot a little bit because all the running. So now we have an elliptical machine, and I really do go out, and that, you know, is wonderful. And then food. I love every single thing about it. Thinking about it, shopping for it, I love really lovely ingredients, and cooking it from scratch. It's— and then seeing my whole beautiful family around the table with me. That's such a happy thing for me, really. Yeah, absolutely. And enjoying what you cooked. I mean, there is nothing more beautiful than to make something special and then tasting it and enjoying it, isn't it? Yes, I love cooking because I'm greedy. I like eating. I'm the same. All right, and do you have any ritual or superstition before going on stage? Oh gosh, that is such a good question. I breathe. If I'm ever nervous, which I don't often am, I do remember at King's Place playing a concerto a few years ago and having— I mean, it was just great luxury because, you know, they have these lovely dressing rooms with screens and I had somebody to come and get me because I was a soloist and the orchestra, they all were already on stage playing something else. When it came my turn, I remember just going very still and just really connecting with my breathing and just everything still down, because— and that I find really helps me get in the zone. And so then when you're playing, there's this wonderful space that I call the zone where everything flows. Time's still, there's no sense of time, and it's the most perfect um, feeling really. But that, that really helps me ground me. Yeah, yeah, there is something very magical about music. I don't know how, but I've been at concerts, I remember, um, where outside there could be the worst, uh, political, historical moment ever, and everyone is just there enjoying the music. Yes, yes, just like somehow you have that hour or 2 hours of, um, being in a bubble and just having your body in harmony, mind and body in harmony with the music, and that is produced on stage. It's a safe place, isn't it? It's the one safe place we've got that we can all share. Yeah, so precious. Art is so precious, and we can never ever forget that. No. Do you have any funny moment or embarrassing moment going on stage? Yes, of course. Oh God, let's have a look. Let's have a— I can't even think. Oh God, of course. Oh, forgetting I'm not bringing the right music once. I don't know what I was thinking of, forgetting one piece, having to walk off stage and having to make a joke about it. I have once in the long career, but thank God it only happened once. Sneezing, I think. Oh, or even playing with a fly on my nose. Oh no! And then the fly was circulating, I could see it, it landed on my nose for a bit. Oh gosh, that's terrible. Flies, they don't care, do they? Yeah, lovely time on my nose. There is some wonderful videos of people performing outdoor and having cats or dogs coming over on stage and joining Of course. Yeah. Oh no, no, they, they understand music as much as we do, isn't it? It's really special. Yeah, yeah. I used to have a bird just coming on the, on the branch of the tree in front of my window and just singing as loud as he could when I was performing, particularly with Rachmaninoff. And I was like, come on, I need to listen to my music, not you singing in my ears. I, I adore Rachmaninoff, and I think really the bird I love it too. One of my favourite composers, actually. Oh yeah, he's amazing. It's so passionate, it's just so incredibly passionate. Yeah, what I love about Rachmaninoff is that any music is as long as it has to be. There is never the question— sometimes I have other composers, I won't mention their names because then I might get attacked, but you know, just to be brave, Schubert, for example, sometimes this goes on forever and ever, and it's like, you didn't need to go that long. I know what you mean. Yes. Yeah. And Rachmaninoff is always just right. Or like, for example, I'm a super fan of Chopin, but there is a first and second concerto, I adore them. But then, for example, I don't like— uh, the second movement is too boring for me. Rachmaninoff, first, second, third movement, just, just fantastic. There is one more beautiful than the other. I don't know what was with Rachmaninoff. But he really had some, yeah, special power. He did, he really did. He captures me, it absolutely captures me. I'm— there's something about him, definitely. I agree. And it's funny because you are a baroque musician, so you're not performing Rachmaninoff. Or have you ever performed something in the baroque flute? For example, maybe the beautiful vocalise. Have you ever tried that with the flute? Actually, I think I do I do. It's funny you say vocalise because there is a sort of technique for practicing, and it was a sort of 19th century thing that I really very much adopted in my own practice, which is vocalise. And I love playing sort of— I actually have vocal treatises, 19th century, that I use for my practice for shaping sound. And I think it's really— I think it's a lovely thing. And there are some pieces, modern pieces, that I play definitely on the Baroque flute because of the quality Yeah, just at the soundboard, what you can do with it. And I don't think there is— it's a really nice crossover, actually. Last question. You know, I have friends that they play, they're super virtuosos of the modern flute, and they have the Golden Flute, for example. So the material is so different. The Baroque is made in wood, and then I guess the Baroque flute is also made with different type of woods, or is always the same wood?? Now it's all different, there's— oh my God, this is such a big subject, brilliant question. Well, there are different woods and different designs for different countries, for different composers, for different pieces even. So, you know, if we've got Renaissance music, you play it on a one-piece Renaissance flute, same thing with recorders as well, you know, this very much mirrors it, and then you've got three-piece, for instance, for early French French Baroque, you have a 3-piece flute and then a 4-piece flute. And they— all the way that the bore inside and the hole position and the sort of blowhole positioning all differ— is different. And so the 2 recordings that you've played with me playing the Baroque flute, they have 2 different flutes. One is German and the other one is actually Italian. And the Italian were brilliant. In Turin, there was a really brilliant sort of make— a family of makers called the Palancas made bassoons, flutes, oboes. They are really lovely, and I actually used that particular flute for orchestras a lot. It is quite powerful, and I love it. It suits my playing very much. So yes, it's a big, big subject, and one of the joys of it is I'm such a geek that I really enjoy finding out about these things, and I have quite a collection of them as well. Well, we have to finish, unfortunately. These interviews, they go too fast. We, we will definitely call you back to talk more about this fascinating subject. But the last track we're gonna play today, we're saying goodbye to our audience with the Handel Trio Sonata No. 4 in F major. How joyful this was handled! Trio Sonata No. 4 in F major performed by our special guest recorder and baroque flutist Lisette da Silva Bull. Thank you so much for the great chat and the beautiful music played today. Thank you, Stefani, for inviting me. What pleasure it has been. Brilliant, brilliant hour we've had. Absolutely. Thank you so much. You've been listening to Future Classic Women Awards on Women's Radio Station, live every day at 10 AM and 10 PM London time. If you have any questions that you would like to ask our guests or nomination for our Future Classic Women Awards, please email presenters@womensradiostation.com or tweet us @WomensRadioStn. And if you'd like to listen to it again or catch up on our previous programs, you can head to my presenter's page, Stefania Passamonte, Future Classic Women Awards on womensradiostation.com. Thank you for listening!