Future Classic Women Awards – Valentina Ciardelli

Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station, the program where we search for the most amazing new female artists on the classical panorama. Today on Future Classic Women Awards, we will be talking to Valentina Ciardelli, an amazing double bass soloist and professor of the London Performing Academy of Music, presenting her latest album, Ruzzu: The Girls in the Magnesium Dress. With Anna Astesano Harp. Hello Valentina, how are you? Hi Stefania, thank you for the invitation. I've been better, sorry for my voice, but it's the season, so this is not my actual voice. It's slightly better, but I hope it will be enjoyable anyway. Yes, so to be clear with our audience, Valentina is a young, beautiful double bass woman, and yeah, you sound like a very— yeah, I don't know, like experience, uh, like double bass player at this moment. Yeah, well, Valentina, actually, you know, with your— in your young age, you have achieved so much. It's impressive what have you done, and this is already your second album. Would you like to tell us straight away about this fantastic, you know, album where there is your solo composition. I mean, it's all a women project, if you like, because it's you and Italian artist Anna Astesano performing and with your own composition. And the COVID is just fantastic, is about the girls in the magnesium dresses. So tell us a little bit about how all this was born. So yes, basically, the Girls in the Magnesium Dress is the name of our duo that is a harp and double bass duo. And we just explore a lot of repertoire, actually new repertoire for this new combination, instrumental combination. Harp and double bass is not that common yet as a, you know, a string quartet or a piano trio. And we decide to record an album to just put on paper like what we have achieved in 3 years of working together. And this— the concept of this album was back in the first lockdown during the pandemic. Our duo had the possibility— we were very lucky because we were both in London during the lockdown, and through like a common friend and institution, we had the possibility to rehearse even during the lockdown. And we start to research our huge amount of repertoire. And we start to rehearse this piece that is actually peculiar for the CD, that it's called "Elegy" by Yoshihisa Hirano, that it's a Japanese composer. And it's very famous in the video game and anime soundtracks. He compose and orchestrate Final Fantasy video games or the anime Death Note. And he actually dedicate this piece to the duo duo because he heard my first album, the music from the Sphinx, and he really loved the solo double bass. And he asked me if he could, uh, write something for me. And I was quite, uh, shocked, like, you're asking me if you can compose something for me? I was like, wow. Yeah. And, um, he listened on my YouTube channel different combination of instruments, and he really fell in love with the harp and double bass. So From this piece, we decide to create a journey around the topic of the Japanese influence in the Western country and vice versa. And so we explore both the Japanese cultural heritage after the Edo period, so it's mid-19th century, and the, the Japonisme wave that we experience in the Western country, you know, and with a composer, of course, big names as Maurice Ravel, or of course Giacomo Puccini, and Igor Stravinsky. Yeah, well, absolutely. Well, first of all, actually, I'd like to listen then the elegy by— oh my gosh— Yoshihisa Hirano. Yoshihisa Hirano. He's friendly, he just called me Yoshi. It's easier. Yeah, but I wanted to ask you one thing. So this piece, elegy, that he composed for you, did he have in mind some— you know, there is so much fascination for the Japanese culture and the Japanese manga and the art in general. So did he have anything in mind for this piece that he gave you to inspire you when performing this piece? Yes, actually he really He knows that I'm a really big fan of anime world and especially Death Note. That, for who doesn't know what it is, it's a fabulous anime and the story is so good. And basically he took two aspects of the Japanese culture that are super strong, the fascination of balance, you know, meditation, meditation, this kind of bucolic backgrounds, no, with the ponds and the, you know, the sand and the tree with the blossom flowers. And on the other side, he explored the tradition of the creepy culture, the ghost, the death, and all this kind of super kind of creepy legend, urban legend with monsters, you know, And he just put together these two aspects in this elegy and just told to us, just play this elegy with like kind of sadness and fear sentiment, but not too serious. Just, it's just kind of easy thing, no, just to try to compensate these two reality of the Japanese culture. So that was fabulous because actually he was saying, okay, take it really serious, but not too much. Wonderful. Well, let's listen then. Io Isha Hirano, LG, composed for Valentina Ciardelli, double bass, and Anna Astesano, harp. Wow, and this was Elegy by Ishihisa Hirano, performed by Valentina Ciabella and Anna Astesano at the ARK, from the latest album Rutsu: The Girls in the Magnesium Dress. Really, you know, I could see all the imaginary and the beautiful drawing of the Japanese anime, really the colours and the fantasy. It's really beautiful. I was really impressed by this. Piece. Now, you know, Valentina, for the audience that didn't follow us from before, Valentina was one of the finalists of our second edition of Future Classic Women Awards. So it's 2 years ago already, and in 2 years so much has passed. And we were, you know, we were talking at the time how you got inspired to become a double bass soloist. Would you like to remind the audience that didn't listen to the— that episode? It is still available on the Women's Radio Station, on the podcast of this program, Future Classic Women Awards. You will have to look for September 2019. So Valentina, how did you decide to become a solo double bass? It's not something very common for a woman in the— in this job in particular. And, you know, we're so much talking about representation and equality and is this something you've been fighting for in your life, in your career? Yes, actually quite a lot. Yeah, I decided to— first question, I decided to become a chamber and solo bass player because I felt the urge to explore more the sound and the possibility of this beautiful instrument that's called double bass. And not just because I don't like to play in orchestra, because this is the misreading of this phrase most of the time, especially from bass player themselves. Now, when you like to do something out of the orchestra, it just, uh, it sounds a bit pretentious, no? Yes. But it's everything— it's so far from my real intention, because I, I really have a genuine interest in— because I'm a composer as well, I studied composition. I compose for other instruments, and I see the double bass as such a beautiful instrument, as such a— I call it a synthesizer, synthesizer of the string family instruments, because it's got so much possibilities. We have like 4.5 octaves of range, despite the fact that most of the people don't know about that. No, wow, can the double bass play so high notes? Yeah, it can. And And actually, it's not homogenic instrument. Every octave, every register is so different. Every string has got different color. So we can really, really also imitate and try to steal other instrument technique and make them ours. So that's why mainly I decide to explore more the soloistic and chamber side of my instrument. But for now, I don't know, maybe in 3 years' time, I would just— go back to orchestra. I don't know, but for now I feel— I don't think so. Yeah, I mean, I don't think, I don't think so. The main thing is, what is amazing about you is that you're not just an incredible virtuoso double bass soloist, you're also a composer that is really challenging and bringing the double bass to the 21st century, uh, in the sense that you are writing transcription and you're researching in your repertoire and really bringing the double bass to the place where it used to be with Bottesini, for example, and the other great virtuoso of the past, and that somehow got lost, I think, in time. What do you think? Yeah, I think totally. We, we had like a discontinuous history in the repertoire and in virtuoso players. Other instruments like violin, they keep having virtuoso playing and people who search and push for the technical evolution of the instrument. And in the bass, as you said, we had like huge gaps, no, like decades where nothing happened or something was forgot, no. After Bottesini, a lot of things were just like hide, no, for I don't know why. And nowadays I'm very happy because a lot of young millennials generation and the next generation too, we are pushing, we are quite few of us that are really pushing and just trying to get rid of this kind of tag, no, bass player equal orchestra, and that's it, and you can't survive with chamber and solo music. That's not true anymore. And to make this happen, we have to take the courage to go forward this path, no? And I really hope the next generation will be— it will be much easier for the next generation to take this choice, no? It's not an easy choice, and it's also dangerous choice. And you have to be not only very strong as a player, but very strong as a human being, because you get a lot of no in, in your proposals. Even people that don't even listen what you're doing, but just because they see the double bass, oh no, that's not— I don't want it. Like, okay, you, you didn't even listen what I'm doing. No, no, I don't want it. You know, it's, it's like— and this is like very is the real discrimination in the double bass world. For my, my, my part, being a woman is tough, and being a double bass player is even tough. It's so much tougher. Yeah, because, um, there is like a very instrumental discrimination. It's like sometimes I hear phrases like, oh, you play as good as a cello player, no? That it's so comparable. It's so comparable to, oh, you're very good to be a woman, you work as a man. It's the same, you know, and because the bass doesn't have yet, uh, um, um, like distinguished character yet, no. So we try always to compare the bass to something else, and I always think this is the same when you compared a woman to a man, or, you know, a, a person from color to a white person. This is not okay. You should not compare because we are all different and we, we have to be valued from our Differences, no? And in all these kind of things, uh, you can't say a violin is better than a double bass. It's something different. And what I'm searching on the bass is not what I would search on a violin. And so I, I really hope one day people can look at bass players as musicians, not as bass players. And I'm working hard for make this happening. At least in my small contribute, but I'm really working hard to kind of wipe step by step this prejudice. Absolutely. Well, it's a tough road, if you like, a path, but, you know, you need to— we need people like you that they just are brave enough to do it. And so I would like to then play as a next piece from your album, the girls in there, roots with the girls in the magnesium dress, your own composition for solo harp called After Igor, or After Aigor. So what— After Igor, yeah. Igor. Now I'm thinking about Frankenstein, a young Frankenstein. Did you watch? Yes. We're under Halloween, that's when we're recording this episode, so it's very much into Aigor or Igor. So tell me, is this After Aigor or Igor the Young Frankenstein, or is there another Igor in classical music that I might think of? Yeah, exactly. Actually, I should write something about that movie because it's one of my favorites, actually. And yet it's Halloween, yeah, so, uh, I'll probably watch it tonight. But, um, but no, actually, that was dedicated to the Igor from the classical where that is Igor Stravinsky, right? It's one of my favorite composers ever. And, um, basically this piece is, um, a combo that should be played with, um, with another piece that is called Igor, and it's for solo double bass. In the CD you will find them together. It's a dialogue, uh, it's a monologue for double bass that passed the word the harp, and so it's a combo. And this peculiar piece was conceived as an homage to Igor Stravinsky and The Rite of Spring. So harp has not been very lucky in the repertoire for Stravinsky because Stravinsky really wrote few pieces where the harp is included. And so I decide to homage him and also give this piece to my harpist because she also really likes Stravinsky. You always blame, like, oh, we don't have anything really Stravinsky in our repertoire. So I decide to basically getting patterns from The Rite of Spring and create, like, melody collage and just compose this piece, virtuoso, very virtuoso piece for solo harp. Yeah, wonderful. Let's listen then to 'After Igor' for solo harp, composed by Valentina Ciardelli and performed by Anna Astesano. And this was After Igor performed by solo harp by Anna Astesano and composed by Valentina Chardelli from their latest album Rutsu: The Girls in the Magnesium Dress. Valentina, I didn't ask you Rutsu, It's for water. The Girls in the Magnesium Dress is the name of your duo, but Rutsu? So Rutsu, it's a Japanese word, it's just the Japanese version of roots from the English word roots, but it's not in the kanji alphabet but it's written in katakana and this peculiar alphabet in Japanese is used to refer to words and things that they are not from the Japanese culture, but they're coming from outside, and they were included in the Japanese language, normal language. And we, we really like to choose this peculiar word that it was not the original Japanese one, but was a kind of translation from the English, because It's the philosophy of our album, no? The contamination between the Western culture and Japan culture. And so we thought it was— it worked brilliant with the meaning of the entire album. Wonderful. Now I have a question. You are— many questions, actually. Your fascination for the Japan art and music and culture comes from what? For example, I know you have done an amazing work in doing transcription of Puccini, and we know Puccini had a strong passion for Japan. His beautiful opera Madame Butterfly, as all we know, is placed in Japan. So does that come from Puccini, or is it something that came to you, for example, from the game you were talking about, the anime, the— how did you say it's called? The Death— oh yeah, yeah, Death Note. Yeah, Death Note. Yeah, um, this, this anime, um, I think it's a, it's a mix of things. Of course, I think Giacomo Puccini really, um, kind of blew my mind when I was a kid and my grandma was telling me the plot the stories of each opera, no? And when she, she came with the Madame Butterfly, she was talking about with this Japanese girl in Nagasaki that she was there and she just get cheated by this, uh, Western man, no? This very bad Pinkerton, no? Yeah, and she was waiting and she was there and enjoying the blossom of the flowers in Japan during the springtime and singing like Japanese traditional sung. So my, my grandma was really into, deeply into the stories as well. So I think I get the first Japan, Japan fascination through my grandma, but actually through Giacomo Puccini's story, Madame Butterfly. Then I explore more when I was in the middle school. I was around, uh, yeah, 13, 14, I mean between middle school and high school. And, um, I got, um, I start to, to to watch anime and play some video games at my friend's place because, um, in my home they were not allowed video games. My parents never bought me any video games, um, station or things like that. So I was always going to friends to play video games, um, and, and so I just discovered all this, uh, like fascinating world and especially the anime. And one of the first anime I watched, and I was even younger than that. It was Lady Oscar, it's called. Oh, I remember that one. Yeah, and in Italy it's super popular, and I really fell in love with the kind of anime, um, animation that it's always super dramatic, you know. Even if they do something very simple, it's always like this kind of drama shade, no? Well, you know, actually, if you think about— did you see the last episode? Did you see the last episode of Lady at the Oscar, because the problem with this anime is that they last forever and ever. And now eventually every time you can be there for the last episode. And I don't know you, but me at the time, we didn't have the tape recorder, ask someone to record, then you could watch it. So it was quite a big thing to be able to see the last episode. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, yes, anime at the Oscar was one of the few. And if you think about this drama shape, no, it's a bit similar to opera, no? They have always to exaggerate everything, no? And then I get more and more deeply into this kind of cultural thing of the modern Japan culture. And then eventually through anime, through things, I start to discover ancient legend. And then when I came to London, I start to have Japanese friends, so they told me about the culture, the ancient culture. And I would just like more and more deeper into— of course I'm not a Japanese Chinese person. So I'm looking at them with respect and with, um, with the eye of a Western person. No, I can't be deeply into this culture because it's not my culture, but I, I really admire, uh, most of the aspects of this culture. And I really like them, for example, the ceremony, the rituals they, they have in, in everything they do. No, um, it's, it's so fascinating. So yeah, I think I approached this culture through my grandma and Giacomo Puccini first of all, and then when I discovered the anime world. Yeah. Have you been in Japan? No, actually not. I'm working on that. Not yet. Not yet. Hopefully soon. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have many connections with Japan too, and I know the time is is approaching when I will finally go and see Japan with my own eyes. I have many Japanese friends, and when I see their pictures— even one of our professors they had of keyboard of the London Performing Academy of Music is Japanese— when I see their pictures on Instagram, for example, ah, and the blossoms in spring, the cherry blossom, it's really special. That's beautiful. Yeah, actually, I read a book, The Art of Archery and Other Zen I don't know if you ever read it. Oh yeah, yeah, it's really, yeah, yeah, yeah, wonderful. And it's really giving you a very good tip behind the philosophy and the, and the idea, you know, even in the small things where there is the, um, balance, the equilibrium, right, with, uh, with nature and with life. And this is something that we really much need right now, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, and it's actually a good reference to how to learn to practice this book. I think it's— for me it was very helpful actually. Yes, well, to summarize it is that like with the archery Zen is one of the Japanese Zen, like gardening or even the ritual of tea is considered Zen or the graphology, um, is that you have to aim higher to then reach your target. So you never shoot the arrow straight, you will shoot above to then reach the target. Um, and this is really, really beautiful. This is something sometimes people forget. They just see on social media, uh, you know, others that they have success now and they think, oh, I want to get it now. Yeah, but before they arrived there, they had to do so much more. You as well, I mean, you were doing the second album or the first album, you've been working very hard and you're not arrived, you keep working and you keep creating. And so talking of which, well, actually we're gonna ask this on the next session, but we're gonna listen to Randoori Suite, the first movement, I Boccioli nel Quadro. So this one is in Italian. Would you like to tell us a little bit more? I boccioli nel quadro, 'El Cuadro' means the blossom, the flower blossom in the painting. So would you like to tell us about this piece? Yeah, this is the first movement of a suite in 3 movements that I dedicate as my personal sensation and my personal, um, homage to the Japanese culture and the Japanese influence. And, um, basically it's a synesthetic journey. I'm a synesthetic artist, so I actually have this thing that I fill colors with notes and actually also with numbers. I have the same thing. And I— this is my way of composing. I compose through visual inputs most of the time. And in this case, I decide to have visual and literature suggestions. For this first movement in Peculiari, it's about the suggestion I got from the painting, the Almond Flowers, of Vincent van Gogh, and you know he was heavily influenced by the Japanese and he really loved the Japanese culture, and I decided to make a tribute to his, his Japanese to translate my sensation into music watching this beautiful painting that is one of my favorite. Yes, wonderful, then let's listen. To Randori Suite, I Poccioli nel Quadro by Valentina Ciarpelli. And this was Rendori Suite, 'Occioli nel quadro,' composed by Valentina Ciardelli and performed by Valentina Ciardelli at the double bass and Anna Astesano at the harp from their latest album, 'Rutsu: The Girl birds in the Magnesium Dress. Really beautiful, I really enjoyed it. Now I have a very big question. This is the last part of our episode of Future Classic Women Awards. Normally I ask if you have any embarrassing story that you can tell us by going on stage, but you shared these with us in our second edition. If for the audience, if you would like to catch up with that episode, the interview is from September 2019 on the podcast of the Women's Radio Station. So Valentina, I'm gonna ask you something else. So we were talking before about how the double bass is compared to a cello. When you're playing very well, they say, oh, it really sounds like a cello. So, and we know very well that double bass is an unusual instrument to be seen in the street, if you like. So what is the strangest question that people ask you when they saw the the double bass inside the case. So like if they ask you, is this a guitar, for example? I heard of that before. Do you have any strange— oh, that you can share? Oh yeah, we can just do a podcast only about these questions. I have so many of them. Um, actually, yeah, actually I'm trying to just remember some of the greatest hits, as I as I call. There was one time a woman, I was on the tube and she just keeps staring at me and actually politely she just came to me. Actually, for the people who doesn't know, I actually, at the double bass, it's 1 meter 90 violin shape case. So it's quite, I mean, distinguished that it's a kind of, I don't know, maybe, yeah, you can say guitar-ish. You can also say guitar as well. Yeah. And this woman came to me and just asked me, really politely, 'Excuse me, madam, is that the saxophone?' Oh no. And I just like, I look at her really confused, like, and I stare like, 'Is she joking or is she just for real?' And I asked her, 'No, it's a double bass.' And she keeps saying, 'Oh, is it just a sort of saxophone?' And I was like, and I replied to her, 'Have you ever seen a saxophone?' It's like, how? So that very confusing. And then I explained to her that— and I actually, I showed to her on my phone a picture of a double bass without the case, and I told to her it was just a string instrument, whatever. So she was like, oh really? Oh, today I learned something new. Like, okay, yeah, me too. I like— I know there are people that they can just, uh, think I play saxophone, but that's fine. Um, and then one, one time it was, um, of course one of the greatest hits, it's like, oh, we should play the flute. And the reply is like, no, no, away, like, even if it's, uh, not handy, like, yeah, of course not, because I like the bass. Uh, then, oh, next life violin, right? This kind of things. Oh, really? Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, or, or people that look at you when you, you go up to the stairs by yourself without asking you, do you want a hand? Like, oh, is that heavy? Like, um, oh really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, is that heavy? 'Or how can you play such a big instrument?' And it's like, we— I have two hands, so yeah, with the hands I play this instrument, you know, this kind of replies. Yeah, to be honest, I remember when I went to Royal Academy of Music as a student a few years ago, I could say before yesterday, but not unfortunately. But there was this double bass, that was a woman, and I remember I was quite impressed. First of all, that there were a couple of women playing the double bass, because I've never seen in Italy a double bass woman, actually. And this girl— I'm talking about 20 years ago— and this girl was actually very short. She was shorter than me, and I thought, how can you play the double bass if you are this short? And apparently it was fine, so she was just sitting up high and to be honest, what do you think? I mean, because you're a very tall woman, in a way you're not, you know, average, if you like. How tall are you? Yeah, almost as much as that. I'm 1 meter and 1 meter 78. Yes, I'm quite tall. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I know there is different sizes of the double bass. To be honest, I didn't check if she was playing a smaller double bass most probably, because in any case you need to reach with your arms, you know. It's, uh, the, the myth was when I was a student at the conservatoire that the double bass had bigger hands, that's why they could play a bigger instrument. Yeah, the thing is, like, it's, it's a kind of myth, you know. Double bass has been always played by men, and the technique on the instrument and the, the develop of the lutherie as well was a kind of structure on male hands and male kind of hate, you know. And this is a matter of fact, no? And for example, harp has been always played by the female players, no? So it's more associated, even if it's bigger than a double bass, actually, even heavier. But the technique of the double bass was really set on very strong, um, like, hands. So even my hands— I'm, I'm, I'm tall and I have long arms, luckily. I have big hands, but my hands have got long fingers, not strong fingers. So my technique has to be— I just developed years a way of playing that it's slightly different from, for example, my teacher The way I just like hold my hand, for example, on the thumb position. Thumb position, it's the one there, it's used also by cello players when you go up to the fingerboard and you put your thumb to make a— in Italian it's called capotasto because it's like the— the keyboard. Yeah, exactly. The head of the instrument that just stops the strings and they maintain the tuning. Um, so for example, in this way, because I have weaker hands than a man, or like because I have longer fingers, I have to develop more an agility technique. And so that's why probably I prefer to play even solo or chamber, because in this kind of technique you have to be more agile. And staying everything on the neck, it's very heavy for my hand. So that's probably why I also choose a different path of career, because it was more shaped on body, uh, strength, no? It's like when you choose a sport, no? You do like 100 meters or you do the marathon or whatever. It's a question, and that's my other question. So you see, when you're a sprinter, there is the sprinter for the 100 meters and the sprinter for the 200, or the sprinter for, you know, and then you do the, uh, 15K, whatever. So with the double bass, because it's bigger a string instrument similar to the cello, who is a bigger version in a way of the viola, who is a bigger version of the violin, right? So have you ever tried playing— can you play a cello? Can you play a viola or a violin? Uh, actually, uh, no, because it's a, it's a different completely different technique. I mean, not completely, the kind of school and technique is the same, but it's not playing— yeah, no, I'm not saying playing professionally, I'm just saying for fun. Because I remember very well when I was studying at the summer course, for example, everyone would swap instruments. The violin would become the cello, the cello would be played with viola, etc. Would you be able to do that? So you can— I can guess the notes somewhere, uh, and in the cello actually it's much easier because the, the position, it's— I mean, it's vertical, it's not horizontal as the violin and the viola. But the main problem between double bass and the other string instrument is that the, the tuning is different. We are tuned by fourths and the other string instruments are tuned by fifths. Shifts. So, um, you can guess where the notes are, but, um, I, I would just need a bit of practice to find the actual notes. In one string is fine, I can find them because it's just working the same, you know. Uh, but, um, this is like, um, I mean, I can guess where the notes are with the bow. I can, I can do something, but of course they all need practice. So what I'm saying, if I can swap and go in a section of cellos and play Beethoven Fifth, I say no. I just probably need to practice for a month, then I would be probably easier for me than for a pianist. But they're all different instruments, so I would just rather practice. For sure more difficult than playing a saxophone, maybe. Yeah, actually, probably, yes. All right, fine. Well, the last piece of today is gonna be Haruna Humi. The Sea in Spring from Valentina Ciardelli and Anna Stesano's latest album, Rutsu: The Girls in the Magnesium Dress. Beautiful. And this was Haru no Umi, The Sea in the Spring, by Miko Miyagi, a traditional composer of the 19th century, Japanese, performed by Valentina Cherdelli at the double bass and Anna Astesano at the harp from their latest album Rutsu, The Girls in the Mechanism Dress. Um, a big thanks to our guest Valentina for the great chat and the beautiful music played today. Thank you so much for inviting me and for this lovely chat. It's been our pleasure. You've been listening to Future Classic Women Awards on Women's Radio Station, live every day at 10 AM and 10 PM London time. If you have any questions that you would like to ask to our guests or nomination for our Future Classic Women Awards, please email presenters at womensradiostation.com or tweet us @WomensRadioStn. And if you would like to listen to it again or catch up on our previous programs, you can head to my presenter's page, Stefania Passamonte, Future Classic Women Awards on womensradiostation.com. Thank you for listening.