Get Booked – Deborah Stone “The Essential Guide To Caring For Older People”

Hello, I'm Hazel Butterfield and you're listening to Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station, supporting women's wellbeing. Here at Get Booked, we talk about what I've read, what I'm reading, new releases, chat to authors, bloggers, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all based around supporting women's emotional wellbeing. And today in the studio I have Deborah Stone, who has written The Essential Family Guide to Caring for Older People. Hi, Deborah, how are you? I'm good, Hazel, how are you? I'm doing really well, thank you. I've, um, I've been completely engrossed in this book. Oh, thank you. I mean, I know I'm supposed to say that, but, um, I— it's something that's quite— I'm— I think there's the majority of people have this going on in their lives, but at the moment I have such a similar situation where there's my mum and her two sisters and brother who are all trying to care for my grandma who's got dementia, Alzheimer's, cancer, confusion, you name it, she's got absolutely— yeah, it's horrific. But everything you— for people reading your book that possibly aren't dealing with these situations, they might go, why you go into so much detail? Surely that's necessary. That seems quite arduous, but it's not. Oh no, not at all. It's a topic that is so wide, and part of the issue really is that everybody's journey is completely different. So people come into the care process at all sorts of different places, and that's the reason why the book's so comprehensive, because, you know, some people will have relatives who are suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's, and other people will have relatives that they're just starting to get concerned about how they're just coping generally at home, or some other medical issues. So it's really important— well, I felt anyway— to cover as many issues as possible so that anyone picking up this book would essentially be able to dip in and out of it as a manual, if you like, in order to be able to get advice on any area they want and to be able to be signposted to the right sites if it's very specialist. I mean, you use the term manual. It is. It's, it's, I mean, I know that my mum was, was like, I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing. This is a minefield. She's only just figured out how to get help financially from the government to help with the costs. And if she'd have read this book, it would've been so much easier for her. Well, that's great to hear. And I mean, that's exactly why I wrote it, because my own father suffered from vascular dementia for 8 years, and my elderly mother, who's 85 now, has been on her own for 15 years and suffered from all sorts of ailments. And that's why I wrote the book, because it was so difficult to find information and so difficult once you found it to know exactly how to go about it. And I thought, well, I'll just try and clarify it for people having gone through it for so long. Um, it— there's no resource out there that really tries to pull it together, and that's why I, I tried to do that. Yeah. And do you know what, what caught me? Um, I think I nearly missed my bus stop when I first started reading this book because it was only released last week. Um, was it last week? Yeah, Thursday. Yeah. And, um, and I started reading it on on the bus coming home from one of my jobs, and the stats alone, I actually found myself going, what? I know, it's terrifying, isn't it? I mean, the fact that the, the population is aging so quickly. I mean, even just basic stats, like in, in what, 5 years' time, 25% of the population is going to be over the age of 65. I mean, that is staggering, um, statistic. And the fact is that We are all going to, if we've not got it now, we're all going to have to have caring responsibilities and we're all going to have to pay for them because you probably read in the book that the threshold for the government paying in terms of full care is so low that most people are never going to get that low because it includes your home and any savings you have and all that sort of thing. So people really need to start planning ahead and I think this is one of the most important issues I feel in care is that, you know, people, they work all their lives and then they plan for retirement and think about how they're going to pay for their retirement, but they don't think about how they're going to pay for care. And it is expensive and it's very draining, and people end up selling their homes and all the money they were hoping to leave to their children. So it is a really important topic and a topic that's just going to get worse, unfortunately. What struck me actually is we'll talk about a little bit more about my personal situation a little bit later. But the cost, my mum was saying the other day that it's getting so much. I mean, my uncle lives in Australia, my auntie lives in London, and there's just my mum and her sister who live up north, which is where my grandma is. And so they're having to kind of deal with that predominantly themselves. And it's getting so much so that it's, it's a little bit dangerous. My grandma's still in her own home, and there was the talk from two of the other siblings that not as close by saying, well, maybe it's time she went in a home. Um, and my mum said, but it's about £800 a week. I'm like, that can't be right. Well, it is right. And I, I mean, homes vary between £40,000 and £80,000 to £100,000 a year depending on what part of the country you were in. Um, and You know, and sometimes people do need to go into homes and that's the right place, and because they can't cope at home, and, and, you know, people sell their homes in order to afford that. But even then, it only takes you so, for so many years, and then you're not going to be able to have the money anymore, at which point the government will take over because you fall between the £23,250 threshold. Um, but, um, one of the main reasons again that I wrote the book was because I wanted to give people advice on how to allow older people to maintain their independence at home for as long as possible. So again, you probably saw in the book there's a big section on safety at home and trying to just do basic stuff like making sure the lighting's right, making sure the furniture's in the right place, making sure there aren't trailing wires and loose carpets and that kind of thing, just to prevent falls and things like that. Because falls is one of the main reasons why older people end up injuring themselves and then become ill as a result and don't recover, not just physically, but also their own confidence to live alone. So there's lots of things you can do to try and keep people independent, but it does become an increasing issue. And of course, you can apply to the local authority for care at home as well, but it tends to be ad hoc, and each individual council does it differently. Well, a lot of the— you said that you've come up with a lot of different ideas, things to kind of for people to keep in mind, and a lot of it's common sense. Yes. However, when there's— we're not talking hundreds, we're talking possibly thousands of different elements that you need to think about that you can't have common sense about all of them and just remember to do. I mean, the health checks, how to use use technology, you know, there's so many different things, the care plans, and there was some excellent ideas actually in terms of incorporating technology and just making things like Skype easily accessible. Oh yeah, I mean, I think if you can get an older person to engage with technology just at a basic level, it can change their lives. And the problem with technology is that a lot of older people are scared of it because they've never come across it, they don't think they'll be able to use it, and it can become a real barrier for them. But it's a question of how you put it to them. So instead of saying, look at this computer, or look at this tablet, you don't do that at all. You just say, oh, have a look at this, or see what this can do. And you don't call it a name, you don't call it something technical, you literally show them. And, you know, Skype's really easy. You can put together an iPad or a tablet and have us just couple of buttons on there, literally, or just the Skype button, and all they have to do is press it and then press your name, and you can talk to them, and you can talk to them face-to-face. And particularly for so many of us now, as you were just describing your own family, we're distance carers. You know, 50, 100 years ago, everybody lived next door. That doesn't happen anymore. And with Skype, you can have a face-to-face conversation instantaneously. You can also see what your relative looks like and whether they look like they're, you know, in good shape and whether they're eating and whether just their general environment looks tidy and all that sort of thing. It just helps you to keep a handle on it, and it helps them because, you know, a lot of older people are very lonely and they don't get the chance to talk to another human being for weeks on end. So the more you can actually encourage them to engage with Skype and other bits of technology, the better they'll be in terms of just general connectiveness and feeling better about themselves. Well, it is about connectivity, isn't it? And about loneliness, but one point I wanted to make about Skype is if there is something, maybe they've hurt themselves or maybe they're trying to hide the fact that they've bashed themselves or something like that, it's visual. Absolutely, that's what I mean. You can see what they look like. You can see if they're okay. You can see if they look like they've managed to get washed and dressed. You can see if they've got a bump on the head and you can see their surroundings as well, you know, where they're sitting, you know, does it look messy or does it look like they've managed to, you know, tidy up as they normally would or whatever. It's a big, big help for everybody all round that you can actually see how they are and, you know, as well as talking to them. Because it's one thing talking on the telephone, but it's completely different if you can see what somebody looks like. And see, technology, you know, it does have its place. And if our kids are constantly wanting to be on technology, it's like, well, do you know what, go and phone Grandma for a little bit. Well, and they can be brilliant kids because they can be actually much more effective at helping grandparents to engage with technology than the daughter or son, because first of all, quite often the parent won't want to listen to the daughter or son because they just think, oh, you know, you're just telling me to do something. But with their grandchildren, they have a different relationship and maybe, you know, soft spot that they'll kind of listen to what they have to say. And they can explain it because it comes naturally to children, because they've worked with technology since they were born. It's very easy for them to show older people how to use it, and they can create quite a special bond between them being able to do that. Um, the other point on technology to mention is, is the Kindle, because my mother is a complete technophobe and, you know, wouldn't engage with anything. But the Kindle has been a massive success because she can change the font on it, it's backlit, she just has to touch it to change the page because she's got arthritic fingers. She can't read books anymore, but she can read the Kindle all the time. And, um, again, things like that are so easy, you know. You don't call it a Kindle, you don't call it an electronic book, you just say, look, you can read books on this, show them how to do it. It's just straightforward, it's fantastic. Well, it's a little bit about how you reframe the actual predicament, isn't it? Rather than saying you need to use technology to do this, which basically is just going to go, oh no, I don't like this, this is scaring me, um, to, um, actually this is just a different kind of book. Yeah, 100%, exactly. Yeah, exactly right. It's, it's a really, really straightforward tool and one that works very, very well for older people. Well, I think we all like reading on Kindles these days, to be honest. But yes, I like to, I like to mix it about a little bit. Yeah, I, I do, I do like a physical book, it has to be said, but for traveling and things like that, Kindles are fantastic because you can pack everything on them. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Um, right, we just come to the end of the first section. We're just going to go over to some ads. I'll be back in a couple of minutes. Okay. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan, and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello. And welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on Women's Radio Station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything fertility, pregnancy, birth, and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the Radical Wellbeing Show, supporting women's wellbeing. On my show, I bring you ordinary women like me and you who are sharing their unique stories. Women who have refused to be defined by their pains, to be silenced by stigma, or crushed by stereotypes, and who are taking back their power. And together, our mission is a simple one, and that's to inspire you to kick away the roadblocks too, to don your wings and be the person that you were born to be. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate, and you can listen to my show, Get Booked, Booked here at Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Do you want to be a doula? Would you like to support families through pregnancy, birth, and the postnatal period? Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring, and empowering? At Nurturing Birth, we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award-winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role, and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more at nurturingbirth.co.uk. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter at Women's Radio Station, that's Women's Radio STN, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to the second section of today's Get Booked with me, Hazel Butterfield, and my guest author today, Deborah Stone. We are talking about The Essential Family Guide to Caring for Older People. Um, this is one of those shows that it's, it's going to be invaluable, and I urge people to get hold of this book, um, pass it around your friends. And as you even say, Deborah, in the end of the book, even if it doesn't help anybody, Hopefully it can help your own children look after you when you're older. Yes, although my youngest son, he did say to me, "Well, yes, but you won't listen to anything." But yes, I've said to both of them, if I've achieved nothing else, at least I've left them a list of what they can do with me. We did touch slightly on stats in the first section. I'm quite surprised by this stat that 42% of carers are men and 58% are women. I thought it would have been higher on the women's percentage. Yes, I mean, I think a lot of it does fall to women, but there are a lot of men in this country who take on caring responsibilities, and that might be alongside their partners or it might be on their own. So, for example, my husband's an only child and He lost his father last December, and his mother's 92, and he's her sole carer. So I think these days, things are slightly more shared than you might expect, and there are a lot of men who are dealing with this issue. And I think men sometimes find it more difficult, because at least with women, we'll talk about what we're worried about, and we'll share ideas, and men quite often bottle these things up and don't really talk about what's worrying them. So again, I hope having a book like this that's sort of quite factual and practical will also help men as much as it will women. Uh, well, well, yeah, exactly. And also, do you know what, it's not always just like the family members, as in, you know, sons and daughters. It's quite often spouses as well, isn't it? Oh, very much so. I think, uh, it becomes a whole family, uh, problem. And depending— I mean, every family has its own dynamic and everybody gets on differently with each other. But yes, I think when you've got an older parent or older relative, it is something that takes over the whole family because it will change your family dynamic. That's whether your old relative comes to live with you or you're just looking after them locally, or whether they live a distance away. It all takes time and money, and it's stressful for everybody emotionally, primarily. Well, that is what's touched on as well. It's the mental health implications of, you know, having— it's not just caring for somebody, it's caring for somebody who's angry and confused, and it's overwhelming, isn't it? Yes, it is, because particularly if you have got a relative who has got mental health issues, who's suffering from dementia or whatever else, it can be just exhausting, and it really tries your patience. I mean, my father, when he had dementia, would literally ask the same question again and again and again, every 2 minutes at times. My mother's got short-term dementia now. In a 5-minute conversation, she'll ask you the same thing 5 times. Sometimes you need the patience of a saint to deal with it, and it does take a toll on your own health, and you do have to take a breath. And, you know, it's not their fault, but equally, the people who are looking after them, you know, it's hard on you, and it's stressful, and it's all time-consuming, particularly when they're frail as well, and you're having to worry about their just general well-being and how they're coping by themselves when they're left alone and things like that. Or whenever there's a crisis, you have to kind of drop everything and go there. It's all very stressful. And what I found is that you can get away with more, which is a horrible term, with the distance, because I phone my grandma and I keep the conversations to less than 20 minutes, otherwise she gets really stressed out. Yes. She knows she's repeating things and she's forgotten what's been said, and she's quite proud and doesn't— Yeah. She had such an incredibly active mind up until the age of 75, actually probably nearer 80. She's 94 now. Wow. And with a whole host of issues and And yet my mum's there and my auntie's there. They take it in turns throughout the whole week. But they see her so regularly that when they do need to leave, or it's just time to leave, she gets so incredibly upset and confused. Yeah. That you'd have to be made of steel for that to not affect you. Well, it's true. I mean, it's a bit like, you know, small children, isn't it, when they go through separation anxiety and, you know, they cling to you and they don't want you to go because you're there. You're their rock and their centre of the universe, really, and that's what centres them. And I think older people, particularly when they suffer from confusion, can feel that way, that, you know, that when you're there they feel safe, and when you're not there they don't, because you're there to answer their questions. And if they get confused and things like that, you can say, 'No, it's okay, you just do this, you just do that.' And if they're on their own and they've forgotten I mean, I'll give you an example. This is awful, but a couple of weeks ago, my mother called and— no, actually, a neighbour called and said, "Your mother's hysterical and she thinks she's taken an overdose." And I'm, "What, really?" And Mum had been— she'd basically opened her kitchen window and screamed out onto the street until somebody came over, which was her neighbour. And she said, "Oh, I think I've taken an overdose." and she was in too much of a state to open the front door or anything. So this woman very bravely, I think, threaded her 8-year-old through the window, who then went over to the door and this kind of thing. And actually, she hadn't taken an overdose. She hadn't even taken any pills. She'd been asleep and woken up and dreamt that she'd done this. But then, so we all thought, oh my God, you know, do we need to call an ambulance? Has she done this? And actually, when we got to the bottom of it, it was absolutely fine. But it's that sort of half an hour of total panicking, you know, terror and panic of what is going on. And, and they often can't tell you. I mean, she had a similar thing where, um, somebody tried to scam her on the doorstep, some roofers, and, um, she got all confused and she gave them some money. And, um, then she didn't want to admit that she'd given them the money because she was embarrassed. And, um, so she made up another story. And then that's why they do it, because they know they've got the embarrassment factor. They seriously And it's very difficult because you then have to untangle the fact from the fiction as well as calm them down and make them realise that it's not their fault. I mean, you know, as I said to Mum, you know, people get scammed all the time, whether they're kind of older or younger. Unfortunately, there are unscrupulous people out there who'll do this. You shouldn't feel embarrassed about it. You know, we just have to make sure that, you know, it doesn't happen again. But because they get so, as you said before, like your grandma, they want to maintain their pride and their independence. And this is really important for older people because just because they're older, they're not different people. I mean, I don't know about you, but as I get older, I don't feel any different than I was when I was 21, you know, inside. I look a lot different outside, but older people don't either. You know, they feel just like they used to. It's just that their bodies and their minds don't work necessarily as they want them to, and that's terrifying for them. You know, think about when you're ill and you're just a bit incapacitated and you think, oh my God, am I ever going to feel better and get on with life again? They feel like that all the time, and yet themselves. They, they feel like they're just normal people, and yet other people treat them differently, and I think that's really difficult. Well, it's the frustration element as well, isn't it? And, and this is why quite often there's incidents of violence as well from people with dementia care, because of the frustration as well. It's— I don't know if you've come across this, it's, it's a different book that I've been reading about about sometimes. It's just, especially in the, in the later stages when there's less that people are capable of, and just the pure frustration. Yeah, they lash out. My father did the same thing. I mean, and he never ever did that. I mean, never, you know, hit me as a child or smack me or anything. But when he had dementia, he would get so angry. I mean, just so angry. And you can understand it because If you're stuck in a mind or a body that isn't working the way it used to, and you can't express yourself in the way that you want to, it must be just unbelievably frustrating. And it's very hard for them, and it's very hard for the people around them to know how to help them sometimes. So it's a very, very difficult situation and very stressful for everybody. I mean, just to kind of put it into perspective as well, I mean, I've had a ridiculous bug. I've been pretty much been playing volleyball, volleyball with my youngest son with this book. And the sheer tiredness and frustration that I can't get as much work done because I just need more sleep and whatnot. I'm getting frustrated just because I don't have my— I'm not to full capacity, you know, I'm not functioning. No, no, exactly. And I think, I think that's exactly right. I think it becomes very difficult for carers as well because you get exhausted. You get exhausted from the physical strain, the mental strain, the fact you don't have enough time. As you say, you're trying to juggle everything. You know, we talk about the sandwich generation, don't we? But it does happen where people have got, you know, most women as well as men are working, they've got children, you know, there's kids to pick up, they have to help them with their homework, you have to feed them, and at the same time you've got older parents who need your attention. And No one can be in 27 places at once, but sometimes it feels like you need to be, and you end up struggling yourself. And again, that's why I talk in the book about the importance of carers looking after themselves and knowing when to take a break and not feeling guilty about taking a break. And if you need to get somebody else in to, you know, help you with that, then you need to do that. Because if you as a carer wear yourself to the point that you're ill, then you're no use to anyone, and then your relative will suffer because they you know, inevitably they just— you won't be there to look after them if you've made yourself ill as well. And then I would— that alone is stressful, just worrying about if you do get unwell, especially if there's only one of you that's doing the primary caring. Well, that's right. I mean, that is very concerning, and— but that's when you have to maybe talk to the local authority about carers' assessment, because as well as getting a care assessment, which is for the older person where they'll come in and look at their situation and see whether they need to supply, you know, any occupational therapy equipment like grab rails or certain things like that will help them around the home, or sending people in for an hour a day or whatever. And you can also get a carer's assessment, which will assess your ability to cope and the amount of time that you're spending caring and provide respite care if you need it. So, and I don't think many people know that that exists, so it is there and people need to take advantage of it if they really feel they're not coping. Well, there's so much to think about, isn't there? And it's— you definitely— this book clears the fog. I think that's definitely what it is, is clearing the fog. But we just— another stat I just want to finish on before we go on to our next set of ads is that in 1950 there were 14 million people people aged 80. Yeah, or over 80. And, um, by 2050, the number will be 379 million. Yep, that puts it in perspective, doesn't it? Totally. It's like I was saying earlier, it's just an explosion, um, of older people, and, um, and they will all have, um, medical and, uh, issues, whether that's physical or mental, and they will usually be suffering from a number of complicated issues. You know, rarely as you get older do you just have one thing wrong with you. And add to that, you know, whether they're able to stay independent in their own homes, whether they need to go into care homes, how that's going to be funded, who's going to be helping them, the stress that will put particularly on families. It's just, it is a crisis waiting to happen, and It's not being addressed properly, you know, at government levels. They, you know, they're not really pulling together social care, NHS, that kind of thing, and they don't have the money to do it. So people, A, need to recognise that it's going to fall to them as families to do the majority of the caring and also to pay for it. And that's the problem. And that's why I've tried to clarify what the options are and what you can do to alleviate the stress as much as possible. I'm very well as well. Um, we will be back in a couple of minutes. I've got so much more I want to talk to you about. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start. 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For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com. Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Welcome back. Welcome back to the second half of today's Get Booked. We are discussing The Essential Family Guide to Caring for Older People by the author Deborah Stone, who we have on the line. Uh, Deborah, we've been chatting about a whole host of different issues regarding caring for people in older care, but one thing that I want to discuss is the dynamics of what happens to the family that are looking after the older person. There are so many issues in terms of divisions of labour. Yeah. And different ideas of what should happen. And it's very hard for somebody who pops by, you know, every other weekend or once a month or once every couple of months and say, oh, well, why is the room this filthy? Why does she look like this? Why does 'Why is he saying this is happening?' and they're not quite grasping it. Whereas there's the exhausted ones who are going, 'Oh, you so don't get it.' But yet, you know, everybody cares. It's just— and everybody's different, but it can cause so many problems, can't it? It could cause enormous amounts of problems. And actually, sometimes these issues can go right back to sort of dragging up the family dynamics that existed when these people were children, you know, whether some felt that they were kind of favourites in the family or not, or whether the parents, you know, feel that one's a favourite over the other, or there's certain, just, I don't know, rivalries going on that suddenly rear their heads again. So that can be an issue, but you're right, it does become a real problem if you have some family members who are living further away and some who are around the corner and doing the bulk of the caring work. And it can become a real problem. I mean, families fall out over it all the time, and sometimes it gets bad enough that they don't speak after they've lost their parents, which is dreadful. And I think the best way to deal with it is to sit down together and talk about what the people who are not as close physically can do. And there is absolutely— there's a whole host of things that they can do, which I discuss in the book, but such as they can take over their banking issues, they could organise their weekly shopping with a delivery, they can organise a local taxi service to pick them up, and if they need it, they can sort out their insurance. All that paperwork that needs doing that the person who's local and doing the sort of day-to-day caring responsibilities doesn't have time to do or shouldn't have to do. There are lots of ways to divvy up the the jobs. And it's very difficult if you're working in a different town and you've got your own family and you have to travel in order to get to see your older relative. Then it's not just stressful, but it's a time commitment, it's a cost commitment. I mean, it could cost families enormous amounts if they're having to travel either nationally or internationally to go and visit their relatives if they live any kind of distance. And it's finding the time. I mean, my mother is 45 minutes away from me, and both my sisters live closer to her. And, you know, I have to find a minimum of 3 hours in a day to get up there and see her, and that's only— and then, and then it's only like just over an hour's visit. So sometimes you can feel just really guilty yourself that you can't be there as often as the person who lives 5 minutes around the corner. But then I do other things for her, so it's, it's, it's really about trying to be sensible and sitting down and making sure that it doesn't become an issue, because the worst thing that can happen is that people fall— families fall out, And then the older person suffers as well because they hate to see the brothers and sisters arguing about them and falling out about those issues. It really doesn't help anybody. And yet, do you know what, this is quite a highly stressful situation to have to deal with, and just because you're family doesn't mean you get on. Oh no, absolutely not. And we all know that there are tensions in families, and particularly once people marry and they've got other halves and they've got, you know, they may or may not get on with the family as well. Every family has a different dynamic. Some families, you know, they all get on, it's like a house on fire. Other families, there are lots and lots of tensions. And unfortunately, when an older person becomes more frail or needy, then these tensions can come to the fore. But all I would say is I would urge families to try to work it out and sit down and talk rationally, rather than getting into the, "Well, I've done this and you haven't done this, and I don't like this that you do, and I don't like the way you do this," and to try not to be negative and to try not not to walk into situations and say, well, actually, I would have done it this way, or why hasn't this been done, or whatever, because it just genuinely isn't helpful. It isn't helpful in any walk of life, actually, but particularly in this sort of situation. Yeah. And the thing is, there was quite— you talk about many different issues and many, well, predicaments in this book, and you kind of use case studies. Yeah. Which are a personal way to just get the point across, especially with brothers who live in different countries and saying, I get 2 weeks of holiday, yeah, my kids are not going to agree to come and spend it with Grandma. Yeah, yeah, no, that's right. This is the point I was trying to make, is that, you know, you do get families who move away and they create their own lives, and then it's just that, you know, to a degree resent having being pulled back into their old family situation and the caring time that might take. And also quite often just genuinely don't have the time, and they also have the demands of their own kids or whatever. So it is a very difficult situation, and it's trying to find some sort of compromise. And, you know, it isn't always possible, and there are problems. But as I say, the best thing to do is to try and talk about it in a rational, logical way so that people can try and work out what the most sensible way forward is for everybody, so that everybody feels that they are doing something and that they're pulling their weight as much as they can. Well, do you know what, it's easier said than done trying to be logical and rational with such an emotive subject when possibly the people are the most stressed out are the ones doing the most and getting quite exhausted. And the exhaustion element is you know, a huge section in the book about talking about how you can't pour from an empty cup. No, you can't, you absolutely can't. And as I said earlier, you've got to be sensible about what you can actually manage. And if you feel that you can't go on anymore, or you're just so exhausted that you're going to be ill yourself, then you have to try and get help. And as I said, there are carer assessments. There are also hundreds of charities out there who are a great sense of support, even if it's just someone to talk to, but will also provide you know, help at home. So for example, the Royal Voluntary Service are fantastic, and you can talk to them and they will try and provide respite care and help and have all sorts of other resources. You know, they're fantastic just helping older people who are lonely get out and volunteer, for example, and, you know, get involved in all sorts of activities. So there are brilliant charities and organisations out there who can help, but, you know, it's again, it's down to the family. You know, some families don't want outside help, they don't They don't feel that they need it, they don't want to admit that they can't cope anymore. It's very difficult, you know, everybody kind of has their pride in these situations and sometimes you have to just be realistic and say, "Look, I just can't go on like this, I've got to talk to somebody about it." And I think the thing I would say above anything is that with this whole situation people must talk, because it's very easy when you're looking after an older person and you're very stressed about it and you're very emotionally upset to see somebody that you've you know, loved and known as really your support all your life, and now the roles have reversed. It can just be so emotionally difficult for people. All I would say is people must talk about it, that even if it's to friends or, you know, chat rooms or whatever, talk about how you feel, because talking about it is half the battle. Those are great There's a great thing that I saw on Instagram recently. It's about, you know, if you were ill, you would go to the doctor. You know, if you couldn't see, you'd go to the opticians. If you couldn't hear, you know, but if you're mentally exhausted or you're feeling depressed or stressed or anxious, we should just automatically be going to see a counsellor, a psychologist, shouldn't we? And we need to be utilising these services. Services to look after our mental health as well. Yeah, I mean, mental health is so important, and I think it's great that these days there's a much greater acceptance of mental health issues and also facilities out there to deal with it. But again, people are more reluctant to admit that they have stress and mental health issues and not always, you know, as sort of on it as they should be in terms of seeking out help. It's much easier to say, well, you know, I'm going to try and get fitter and exercise and do that kind of thing, and that's very good for your mental health as well. But if people really feel stressed, sometimes they don't have the confidence, or they don't want to admit that they need to get help from somebody else. But I think it's really important that you do, because everybody— and I mean everybody— has times in their life where they need to talk. It's really important, and particularly when you're looking after an older person and you've got all of those stresses, it's It's absolutely critical. And I think the main thing to point out about this book as well is that this is taking the stress away from, from this, from this situation because you're, rather than people stressing about what they are doing and aren't doing and aren't doing right and possibly figuring out, as I said before, working their way through the fog, this is helping people to just, just get through it a lot easier. Well, I hope so. I mean, that was— that's the plan. But no, I think just having the information in one place helps because, I mean, it's like when you've got children, isn't it? You'll buy— I think everybody will buy a book on parenting, and you will look at it from time to time when they're going through various stages or you're worried. And that's really what I want people to do with this book, is to feel that they've got it on their shelf, and as and when they have an issue or they just want to check something or they're worried about something, they can go through to the index, have a look at it, and there'll be something in there that will help them. And I think we spend so much time, you know, in a panic and Googling and what do I know about this and what do I know about that, and then you get all sorts of different answers. Whereas at least what I'm hoping to do with the book is to pull all that together so that you have got it, as I said at the beginning, as a manual that you can keep referring to, and that this is a sort of a general source of help so that people won't feel, A, that they're alone, and B, that they have got the information at their fingertips, and they can also then be signposted to specialist organisations if it's medical conditions or whatever else that will help them moving forward, or the government websites. Or, I mean, the other thing I've tried to do in this book is, you know, point out, you know, what benefits people are entitled to at certain ages and what, you know, all that sort of thing. And people don't know. So at least if you can have a look at the book, you know, I mean, figures go out of date really quickly. So, you know, by the time the concept is there That's the main thing. I've said everywhere, you know, check the figures on the government site because they may have changed, and they do all the time, and I'm sure there must be some numbers in there that have changed since it got printed. But the fact is that it's saying to you, this is what's out there, this is where you can look for it, and you don't need to trawl, spend hours and hours and hours trawling. It's in the book. No, it's meticulous and it is definitely concise. We're doing going to— I can't believe how much we're racing through. Uh, we're just going to go over to our final break and we'll be back in a couple of minutes. Okay. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons Live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and We're at women's radio station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. I'm a birth doula and mum of 3, and I'm passionate about supporting women to have empowering and positive birth experiences. Please join me for my brand new show, From Tummy to Mummy, here on women's radio station. Every week I'll be here with an expert guest talking about women's reproductive health, everything fertility, pregnancy, birth, and baby related, right through to the menopause and beyond. Please join us for an informative and fun hour. My name is Ingrid Marsh and I host the Radical Wellbeing Show, supporting women's wellbeing. On my show, I bring you ordinary women like me and you who are sharing sharing their unique stories. 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Do you have qualities of compassion, listening, caring, and empowering? At Nurturing Birth, we offer approved doula training courses across the UK which are facilitated by an award-winning doula. Here you will learn more about the support you can offer, explore the doula role, and think about how to set up your business. No need for previous qualifications. Find out more at nurturingbirth.co.uk. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation, that's Women's Radio Station, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Right, welcome back to our final section of today's Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. We have Deborah Stone on the line who we've been talking, uh, about her latest book, The Essential Family Guide to Caring for Older People. Um, we have discussed, um, a plethora of different issues, um, Um, but a couple of things that I want to talk about is just how much easier you make the helpful charts. Things like making sure there's a laminated piece of paper that has the doctor's information, you know, it's just really simplistic stuff, stuff that you, yeah, you might need to take a little bit more time to put together, but it's, it's like the Bible, the know-how book. On how to deal with caring people, which is probably where you came up with the title. Well, it's supposed to do what it says on the tin, but hopefully, yeah. I mean, I put those charts and things in there because I do think, you know, there's that awful moment, isn't there, where you're suddenly scrabbling around for the doctor's number or the local hospital, or particularly if you live at a distance, or just even the gas board if something's gone wrong. Or, you know, if you've got a piece of paper that is by your parents' phone, but also by your phone, or in your smartphone, or wherever you want to keep it, that you're going to be able to refer to quickly. It makes such a difference, and it doesn't take long to just do a piece of paper and, as you say, laminate it, put it by the phone, and you've always got it there should you need it in an emergency. It's a bit like carrying an emergency card in your wallet type. And I also suggest that older people do that too, so that, you know, if they're out and they have a problem, they've got emergency contacts and things like that on them. And sometimes if they get flustered or they don't know how to use a mobile phone— I mean, my mum's got a mobile phone, but she's never ever been able to use it, so it's a complete waste of time. But, you know, she has a note of our numbers so that, you know, if there's ever a problem, you know, she could say to a stranger, whatever, can you call this number? And I think that's really important because because in the heat of the moment, it's very unlikely that you're going to remember who to call, or know who to call, as I say. And if you know who their GP is, and you know, you have a number of their neighbour or whatever to hand, rather than trying to find it in a chaotic or crisis situation, it makes a big difference. It's just about having emergency plans in place, isn't it? Yes, absolutely. And I think Again, it's not easy because, I mean, part of the problem is that you don't want to think that there could be potential crises, and people go through life relatively blinkered, don't they? They don't sit around waiting for that crisis to strike, and that's right, otherwise you'd spend your entire life in a high state of stress. But I think as people get older, there are very key things to talk about. So another of the sections in the book covers legal issues, for example. So there's a frightening number of people in this country who have not made a will, I mean, I think 34% of over 55s have still not made a will. It's just absolutely bonkers. I mean, that was the section I was going to bring up next because not only is it about— you've got a fantastically meticulous section on making a will, power of attorney, but inheritance tax as well. Yes, I mean, inheritance tax is really important. It kicks in at a relatively low level and people— it's horrendously complicated to understand, but I've tried to simplify it in book. But it is really important that you get advice on all the legal issues and inheritance tax and things like that. So you can— the ground zero point is that you must make a will, because if you die without making a will, you die intestate, and then it becomes a complete nightmare, and most of the money will go to the government, and it certainly won't go to the people that you want it to. So that's number one issue. But then the way you make a will can vary. So you can do it yourself, you can literally write it on a piece of paper and get it witnessed— not a good idea. And you can buy will packs and that sort of thing, but the best thing to do is to have it done through a solicitor who understands not only the legal basis of making a will, but can also advise you on things like inheritance tax and what the best thing to do is. And the other thing that people would be advised to do is to talk to investment advisers, finance advisers, but people who are specialists in later life. So there's an organisation called the Society of Later Life Advisers, and there are other organisations that are similar who are specialists in helping people with their affairs in later life, and that will cover wills and it will cover all their finance. And it's really worth doing, and it's not expensive, and it will save you a lot of hassle in the long term if you actually get your affairs in order. And we should all be thinking about it. And when it comes to things like power of attorney, That is something that needs to be sorted out well in advance because once your parent or relative has lost capacity, as in they are not well enough mentally to grant power of attorney, it cannot be granted, which means that when they get past that point, you absolutely cannot deal with their affairs. So you need to be arranging power of attorney while they have their capacity and so that they can say to a solicitor, yes, I agree that my daughters, sons, or whatever will have power of attorney over me. Now a lot of older people worry about that because they think that they're giving away their independence, their ability to manage their own affairs, and that is not the case because Power of Attorney can only actually be implemented once that person has then lost capacity and a doctor has certified that they have. So you put power in place, but you can't— it can't be used until such point that you need it. And also you can put things in place saying, you know, I want I want all my daughters and sons to have the decisions together, you know, so you're not— you're not— it's just one of the family can make the decisions or whatever, because that can cause eruptions as well. So it's understanding all of those things and how important it is. I mean, I think most married couples, or, you know, people in civil partnerships, or just, you know, people living together, whatever, if they've been together a long time and they've got children, having power of attorney over each other is really important because, you know, we could all get knocked over by a bus tomorrow, and you don't know. And without power of attorney, you just, you can't access bank accounts, you can't access anything. It's a nightmare. And I think what needs to be pointed out as well is that although this book is helpful if you're, if you found yourself suddenly having to deal with caring for an older person, or anybody really, this book needs to be read beforehand. Do you know what I mean? It's just a, it's generally advice on just what might happen in later life, or probably, as we pointed out, is probably going to be needed in later life. So not really getting involved with it too late. Well, that's right. I mean, I had a lovely review of the book this week, and the lady said that she felt that this was a book that was essential reading for anyone over 50. And I think it probably is, because nobody likes to think that they're getting old, but there are lots and lots of issues in this that if you plan far enough ahead, you'll be in so much— be in much better shape as you do get old. If you think you don't think about it and it all becomes, you know, toppling down on you much later on. We're just coming to the end of today's show and there's just a couple of questions that I really want to get across to you. What would be your 3 tips on mental health and mental well-being just in general for life and for just— again, it can be to do with looking after yourself. While, you know, looking after your family members. But what 3 tips would you give that you think are— that you've been using? I think it's very important to talk. That's to the rest of your family, to friends, you know, share your concerns, you know, make sure that you are telling people how you feel. Secondly, you need to make time for yourself, because if you don't make time for yourself, you're not going to be able to care for the older person properly. And that can often be difficult, but you need to find a way to relax, whether that's through meditation or making sure you get enough sleep or going out for the night or whatever. That's really important. And the third thing I would say is to discuss all of the issues with siblings so that there is not the resentment of, 'I'm doing this and you're not doing this,' and that you try and share the load as much as possible, even though I recognise that that can often be difficult. So I think those would be my 3 tips. Do you know what? Some of the most important things in life are quite difficult though, aren't they? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, this area is difficult, but, you know, it's something we all have to get through. And so if you can be pragmatic and sensible and talk, just keep talking. That's, that's so, so important. And where can everybody get hold of this book? Well, it should be in all bookshops. If it's not actually on their shelves, then they will all be able to order it in. And it's available on Amazon and all good online bookshops, so pretty much everywhere you should be able to get hold of it, I hope. So, great Christmas presents, do we think? Well, people might not think it's the most exciting Christmas present, but I think it would be a very useful Christmas present. I mean, I know it's hard for me to comment because I've written it, but I'd like to think that it's the sort of book that most families would find useful to have in their home, even if they're not using it all the time or they don't read it cover to cover at that time. I mean, it's not a novel, it's, as I say, it's a manual. But I think it's something that would be a good reference point for most families, to be honest. I must say, I mean, I've read the book. There was, there was a reason why I really needed to make sure that I read it cover to cover. And I think it's, it covers, it's personable at the same time as providing information as, as well as covering so many different areas. I think you've done a fantastic job. I can't believe the detail. Hell you've gone into. And it's fantastic. And I'm sure that anybody that reads the book will just say, so glad I read this. This is just going to make my life so much easier. I really appreciate you chatting to us here today at Women's Radio Station, and I wish you the best of luck with the book. Oh, thanks so much for having me, Hazel. I really appreciate you having me on the show, and it's been fantastic to talk to you about it. You're very welcome, and hopefully we can chat again when you bring out your next book. I hope so. Have a good day. Give me some time, but yes. Thank you, Deborah. Thanks, Hazel. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money, or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me at empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Do you want to be a doula? 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