Get Booked – Eugenia Melian, Wildchild

Hello, I'm Hazel and this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. Thank you for joining us today. We have an excellent show lined up for you and have the pleasure of having Eugenia Melian in the studio chatting to us about her recently released debut novel Wild Childs, released on the 20th of September. Hi, thank you for coming in and chatting to us today. Thank you for having me. You are very, very welcome. I have been working my way through Wild Childs. I started it on Saturday night with a bottle of vino. That's the way to do it. I think so too. Yeah. And I've just been loving it. I've been walking into things because I have been, you know, when you just get absorbed into a book and you're in the middle of a chapter and you just want to keep on reading and you're coming off the train, the tube, and I've been walking home doing it. Thank you. No, it's great. I love hearing other people's reactions to the novel and how fast they read it or slow, or if they read it in one big binge or in 4 days with ice cream or vino or whatever. Well, what I've actually found is I couldn't do it in one big binge because I kept on having to stop. And there's a certain amount of intrigue into certain things that you say in certain languages that you use that sometimes I just want to Google it. And make sure that, you know, put a name to— well, to put a face to the names that you're talking about. And sometimes there was just a point when two of the characters were eating something and I was like, "I want to know what that dish is." So obviously, I think it's incredible the way you've kind of combined the #MeToo movement, teen-parent dynamics, both Iris as a teen and as a parent, Iris being the main character, the romance, the fashion, the art, the tech. The technique of everything, your knowledge is incredible. And the languages and the culture. Thank you. I used to French in, you know, I used to have a lot of friends in France and I did French in school and it's like nice kind of going back and trying to remember. And I love it. I'm so happy. It brings an extra kind of joie de vivre to it as well. It's just that when I, from my experience, because all these kids flock to these cities where fashion is happening and they're from Japan, They're from England, Germany, from all over the world. And everybody communicates in this sort of like foreign Esperanto, which is a mixture of every language that you can think of. You don't even think that they're speaking in languages anymore. It just becomes like one big sort of giant mishmash. Kind of like a pick and mix of languages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everybody communicates and they don't— they're not embarrassed about getting it wrong. So I wanted to also speak in that kind of way where you're mixing all these languages and you're not like, hey, wait, wait, What am I listening to? That comes across really well because sometimes you just say the line, sometimes it's said like you would expect in a conversation where they say hello in French, they say a sentence and then they repeat it in English, which is what would happen as well. Exactly. You know, it's the spirit of the conversation. You get it. I mean, if you want to go completely crazy, then you start Googling everything, but otherwise I think that most of the foreign conversations you get, yes. The thing is, I do actually understand the majority of it. The only thing I've actually been Googling is like names of the dishes. I just wanted to imagine what they were sitting there eating in the bistro. And also, we know a lot of the main names in fashion, but every now and again you just can't quite picture them and you just want to. Yes, yes. And I kind of— that's what I enjoy. What we should really do, actually, it's— do you want to explain a little bit about what Wild Childs is about? Yes, it was— I've been in the industry for 3 decades. I've been an agent representing fashion photographers choreographer, music producers, etc. And I have lived all over the place, all over the world, in many different capitals of fashion, worked with a lot of young people, worked in a very serious industry, mainly the fashion industry, which I fear has been portrayed very many times with the usual stereotypes and clichés, and it shows like a very fun and superficial like, vision of the outside, from the outside. So I haven't known that part. I only know an industry that's very hard, very challenging, extremely professional, and it moves billions a year. And when— Trillions, didn't you say? Trillions. Trillions in every country. And I just wanted to explore from my experiences show how hard that industry is, what are the risks, what are the dangers, what are the stakes, what is the price you pay to be successful. And then all of a sudden, it turned into a dialogue about pre-digital, pre-social media, how that affects us now as seen through two different generations. So I was very, very lucky to be able to catch still those last years of working without camera phones where people could behave atrociously and nobody recorded it. Now you can't get away with that. And people can disappear. And people can disappear. And it's a different kind of art form. Yes, completely. It's, yeah. And to think about it, only 20 years ago. Only 20 years ago. There weren't these kind of social media influencers and The bit that I really loved reading about is the actual artistic nature behind. Exactly. Not just the photography, but a proper model who knows how to work a camera and wear something. And I quite liked— I don't know how you got the information from the character of Delphine, how she taught Iris all these different techniques. From sitting in, I don't know how many pitches of bringing into all the various magazines that I have worked worked with, presenting the work of my artists commissioned for Vogue, commissioned for, I don't know, Stern magazine, etc., and going into these pitches with the editor-in-chief. And you present, there's going to be the art director, there's going to be the fashion stylist, there's going to be all the team that worked on the shoot. And you don't know before you present it if they're going to love it or hate it. "Kill it," or like, "Clap." And when I say "kill it," it just means throwing the whole thing into the bin without remorse. And so it's always a very interesting moment when anything can happen and the whole situation can turn around. One person says, "I hate it," and everybody follows like a pack. And the work of your artist is destroyed in 2 seconds, also because maybe an advertising big advertising client pulled his budget that week. So you never know what's going to happen. And you look at the wall and you listen to them saying, okay, well, we're going to change this theme or we're going to choose that picture. And it's been 3 decades of doing that. And that's why I was able to show that with Delphine, who's also a little bit like my mom, really tough, really, really tough. And I wanted to show that process. Yes. Explain it in a very dry way. And it is about living on the knife edge. And when you're living on the knife edge and pretty much existing on coffee and fags— No food. I remember going to many parties where, you know, you just, you go to a party because you know you're going to be able to forage and eat some hors d'oeuvres, because otherwise you haven't eaten for like 3 days because you bought a sweater instead. Something like that. Yeah, I mean, I bought some food, but I got a lovely Balenciaga bag. There you go. Yeah, and I look so glamorous at this party And everybody's so beautiful, and it's full of models and everything. But I haven't eaten in 3 days. That's basically— because I don't have any more money left, because not only I bought a Balenciaga, maybe I didn't. Maybe I've been in a really crappy model flat with 8 other models. I'm in debt. I haven't— it'll take me years to get out of my debt with my agency. And I'm doing all these jobs that don't pay, but I have to do in order to build a portfolio. So you just run around the city with your little metro ticket, you don't eat, and you're like, okay, another job with no pay, but it's going to be good for my portfolio. And it takes a long time. And these poor kids, you know, they're just living in these horrific flats with 8 other girls in bunk beds. See, this doesn't happen as much anymore, but when you said that you're in debt to the agency, that was when they used to fork out for your portfolio. Oh, they still do. It's not as bad these days. I mean, there are now contracts where they're not allowed to ask for money up front and things like that. That's definitely changed. It's not— it's getting better. It's getting better. It's getting better with the exposure, because before you didn't talk about it. That was the way the business was done. Now with all this MeToo movement, a lot of models posting, Model Alliance, Model Law, all these different platforms, it's really helping models understand what they should accept and should not accept. But I've always been— I've always had this sort of like mom attitude towards models, because they came in in and out of the office all day long on these, not for any specific job, just on go-sees. And you have to spend 5 minutes with a girl. You have to ask her, where are you from? Have you eaten today? Do you want some water? You're so beautiful. What language do you speak? And I see many people looking at those portfolios. They don't even look up from their phones. They're just like going through the portfolios, not even looking at— Dumb. Yeah. Dumb. Not even looking at the girl in the face. And it's so sad. It's so sad. I feel very sad for these girls. Worried, not sad, worried. And also, you wonder why so many people have anxiety. It's such a very instantaneous society where there are very quick decisions made and sometimes purely on looks. I can't even be bothered having a look. And it just— It crushes. It crushes a young person. Absolutely. It's very hard to be— Listening to somebody telling you that you look too weird for 4 years, you know? "Oh no, you're too weird. You're too weird." And all of a sudden weird is in, and then that girl will be a top model. You're not interesting, you're not this, you're a bit too fat, your hips are in the wrong position, you're not walking properly. Right, we're just going to go and have a very quick break. We'll be back in a few minutes with this week's guest, Eugenia Milian. Thank you. WRS, Women's Radio Station, voice of women worldwide. Sarah's Universal Soul Show. What does your soul or spirituality mean to you? Welcome to Future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Woman's Radio Station. Welcome back, I'm Russ Kane. You're listening to In Conversation With on Woman's Radio Station. I'm Angie. And I'm Patsy. And we're open. To see what other programs we have on Woman's Radio Station, head to our website, womansradiostation.com. I'm Isabel Manivi, an executive coach. Do you want to change a negative into a positive? We can do this by coaching you to rewire your brain using simple visualization techniques. In 20 years of practice, I've seen this transform lives. For more information, look on Women's Radio website, call me on 07984 422 1111, 0171. I'm listening. Mireille Bill Limited. We are a virtual PA consultancy. We provide remote administrative services. Our offering is diverse. We manage your calendar. We update your client database. We take care of your property in France and in London. We also offer bookkeeping and translation services. Would you like to know more? Please call 077 868 48 998 for further information. Mireille Bill Limited. And making the life of the business owner successful. Let Women's Radio advertise your brand or business. It's so affordable and effective, reaching out to all women. Call us on 020 7437 7066 now. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness, or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk. I'm Angie and I'm Patsy and we're open. To share our own personal stories, dealing with life events, staying positive through the tough times. Share your stories too. What worked? What didn't? Join us each week for Open. We know you're gonna love it. Women's Radio Station is a not-for-profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Welcome back to the second half of today's Get Booked with me, Hazel Butterfield. We are joined in the studio with Eugenia Melian. Do I pronounce that okay? That's absolutely Absolutely right. Eugenia Melián in Spanish. Eugenia Melián in Spanish. My Spanish friend would be like, I can't believe you said Eugenia. She will make sure that I keep my pronunciation up. We have been chatting about your book that you've recently released, Wild Childs, and it was released on the 20th of September. I'm going to make sure that we put up the links to the book and make sure that everybody can get hold of it. Fantastic. And before we were chatting about what Wild Childs is about. What I want to know, I've got so many questions, but we've been chatting away. What made you want to pen this book? Before I lost my marbles, maybe, I wanted to— it happens. I wanted to— there were so many things that I remembered, so many unique times. And also speaking to, talking to young kids, you know, telling them that when I started, we didn't even have a fax machine. They're like, how did you work? What's a fax machine? Fax machine. You know, it's like I heard a conversation in a building in New York in the '80s. It's like, honey, we don't know— '90s— honey, we don't fax, we FedEx. So, you know, you just got the information across as best you could. You had time to think things through. It was a very different situation. There was— artists were given much more freedom. So I was very lucky to live of my first experience when I was 19 at Yves Saint Laurent Haute Couture offices with Mr. Saint Laurent, and then all the way up to now with digital, everything has replaced quality and is now just about speed. And so when I talk to young kids about that, they're fascinated. 19-year-olds are like, how could you ever even work? Or how could you be in a shoot with analog? And it's like, you have no idea the freedom that we had when clients could not check every single picture that you took. Now you're sitting in a studio and you've got digitech, the digital tech box, where the client is looking over everybody's shoulder and telling you and telling the photographer and telling the model, "Oh, no, no, no, we don't like the hair like that," or, "We don't like that color," or, "We don't like—" And then another thing with digital is that the technique of photography has been forgotten because before, you did everything on the shoot. You didn't fix it afterwards with Photoshop. So you had to have the right light. You have to have the right lens. Everything had to be right. And normally, the photographer knew how to print as well, develop and print. Now, you just go in and out and it'll be fixed later in, you know, post-production with some, whatever, Photoshop or And it breaks my heart to see that. It's not— do you think it's not as much of an art form now? No, not at all. It's all about bringing out content very, very fast. And as many choices as you can give a client, whereas before the client had very little say, you had very little choice. You had to wait for a whole week for the film to come back. And it was then in contact sheets. And from tiny little contact sheets, you had to sort of choose a few pictures. And we worked from there. Polaroids. So on the set we had a Polaroid, and then it was like, okay, we're happy with this, let's do it. Now you have the picture on the set. It's that whole instant nature of the way— instant nature. Yes. And there's no time to process anything anymore. You can't just sit there and say, hmm, okay, so let's take 3 or 4 days to decide if we focus more on the girl or we focus more on the clothes or whatever it is that you want to decide. Now it's instantaneous, and then there are putting that stuff up on social media. So there's no expectancy. You don't wait around for 3 months to know what is going to come out, you know. Yeah, you get to look straight away. I remember when I used to take a picture on my camera and you'd actually have to put it out in one of those troopin' envelopes and it'd come back. It was so much fun. Yes. Like, oh my God, are there any pictures in there where I look skinny or my bum looks good or whatever? No, no, now you see everything immediately and you're like, oh, flick, flick, flick. You get excited about them arriving within the week. I know. Yeah. But again, because people can see things instantly, that's why there's that— everyone's wanting to control everything because they think they can. Exactly. Because they can change things at the drop of a hat if, you know, if they think they can. One of the things I want to talk to you about, because of the incredible knowledge you have of the whole process of the world and the randomness of some of the things that you talk about in Wild Childs, How much of a percentage of this book is fiction? It's all true. It's all true. Is it? Right. Every situation in there is true. It's a combination— when people ask me to identify some of their characters, or they say, "Oh, I know who so-and-so is." No, you don't, because every character in there is a mixture of various people that I have worked with or met in 3 decades. So no. No, of course not. I wouldn't be that crazy. Then I would get sued. So it's all based on the truth and real things that I have seen. And I hope you get to the gory bits. But it's so true. I will. On the train home, I will. You probably have already gotten to some gory bits, but it's all based on the truth. Yes, absolutely. And I also wanted to explore all that aspect of the importance of photo archives that are disappearing. Disappearing because they get thrown away, because pre-digital we had to buy storage space and keep our pictures in the storage. And so many important photographic archives have been lost that way. So that was also another one of the themes of the difference between analog and digital. It's not— now with digital you don't lose anything, you know, you have it on a hard drive. Yeah, everything's on a hard drive. It's all paperless offices. And trying to simplify. Exactly. So you can imagine how many incredible pieces of photographic work has been lost throughout the decades, you know. That was important for me to talk about that. So how long were you thinking about this book before you actually took the leap? I developed material, I developed fashion fiction for platforms and for Hollywood studios for 4 years, between 2007 2010 and 2014, more or less. And I found myself doing hundreds of pitches at various platforms. And everybody— you would go into a meeting and there would be 10 men in suits and they would say, "But nobody cares about fashion. Who cares about fashion? Kids don't care about fashion." And you're trying to explain to them that kids do care about fashion. Pretty much all they care about is— That's all they care about. Because of the celebrities and because of the models and because it's a form of self-expression. And then they would— another thing that I would hear constantly was, "It's way too dark. It's way too dark. You have to do The Devil Wears Prada." And I would say, "I don't— I can't do that because I have never lived that." And it's been done. And it's been done. It can't be done better than what has already been done. So then there was a whole series of more pitches, more developing, more coming back and forth to the material that I had. And then one day I said, "Enough. I'm just going to write my own novel. I'm not going to write it to please anybody. I'm just going to write it for myself because I want to explore all these themes that nobody talks about." And then I finished it in August last year, and then everything happened between September and December. A lot of stuff happened, which exposed Hollywood and exposed the fashion industry. MeToo was created and everything. So I had already written my book and finished it a year before. So you didn't go back and edit it and change it in any way? Yes, I did many, many edits. I worked with a very professional self-publishing— professional self-publishing company and took out 40 pages, which was like— nearly killed me. Cried every day. 40 pages. And then I couldn't wait around to— because I was sending it to agents, literary agents, and I wasn't getting any feedback. So I'm like, I have to bring this out now. The story is now. So we crammed it, the whole process, in 6 months instead of the usual 8 to 12 months. And it's been— I've learned a lot, and it's absolutely incredible what you can do with professional self-publishing. And I definitely plan on doing my next book in the same way, I hope, because it's just more immediate and you can control it. The first thing that you control is your book cover, your title, you know, your edit. So I definitely think that there's something out there for a lot of artists who are not being published and have something to say. The book cover, as you've just brought up, it makes it look like a coffee table book. Yes. Okay, so that— I think it's beautiful. I know, but that was a luxury. My first edition is a luxury. It cost me a fortune to print. Because I'm doing print on demand. I could have formatted it in a much smaller, how do you say it, trim with many fewer pages. But I wanted that first edition to look like that. An object, a beautiful object that you can put in a handbag or you can put on a table. And then I had an incredible team of people working on the COVID Ethan James Green, the hottest the hottest new fashion photographer right now. And you would know. Met on a road trip in Mexico 5 years ago. Will you do my book? Sure, I'll do your book. An old friend of mine, Sean Stussy, a legendary streetwear inventor of streetwear. He designed the COVID Dara Allen, the hot new trans model. She is the muse of Ethan. Fernando on the floor, lying under her. I mean, I just had this incredible team of people. We did it with no money in a poopy dog park in the projects of the Lower East Side. And it was very exciting for me after being in so many big overproduced shoots with, like, wind machines and all that crap to be totally free on a dog park in the projects, shot without lights, without hair, without makeup, without anything. And people are loving— they're responding very well to that cover. Do you know what? I mean, I wasn't— I was quite busy chatting away with a friend last night, and I— she caught her eye. She's a makeup artist. She does a lot on films and TV and editorials, and it caught her eye immediately. And as soon as I told her what it was about, she's like, okay, I want that next after you, please. I was like, yeah. So it's obviously striking a chord with the right people as well. I do absolutely love it. And I've just— I've got to mention the fact that I love of the byline. It's in a world where pretty people do ugly things. Ugly things, yes, yes. Well, that is true, that is true. It's sad, but that's what happens. And just, I do wish you all the best of luck. Thank you, thank you so much. It is incredible. I'm just over halfway through, so for the next couple of days, I'm going to be ignoring my children and carry on working my way through. Thank you so much. And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make sure that I put up all the details on our Twitter Instagram so people can find the book. And thank you. Are you releasing another book soon? Well, I have to finish marketing and promoting this one, which, because I don't have a very big budget, is going to take a long time. And yes, I already know exactly how the next book starts. I already know the scene, and it's about women. Well, come back and see us. Doing bad things. Oh, brilliant. I definitely want to know. Bad women. Come back in and see us when you release that one as well. I'm Hazel You've been listening to Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. WRS, Women's Radio Station, voice of women worldwide. This is Amy Liu, voice of China at Women's Radio Station. Welcome to Future Classical Woman Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. After a long day, I like to sit in my bath with a glass of wine and listen to women's radio. Come, Ross Cate, you're You're listening to In Conversation With on Women's Radio Station. To see what other programs we have on Women's Radio Station, head to our website, womensradiostation.com. Are you looking to enhance your career? Are you looking to grow your business? Well then why not visit wearethecity.com? wearethecity.com is a website for working women. It's full of inspirational stories of women that have been there, seen it, and done it. We also feature events events, women's networks, and other articles that may help you to progress both in terms of your connections and business ideas. Visit wearethecity.com and take your business or career to the next level. Miraie Bill Limited. We are a virtual PA consultancy. We provide remote administrative services. Our offering is diverse. We manage your calendar, we update your client database, we take care of your property in France and in London. We also offer bookkeeping and translation services. Would you like to know more? Please call 077 868 48 998 for further information. Mireille B Limited, making the life of the business owner successful. Would you like to host your own radio show? Would you love to be doing what I'm doing right now and be a radio presenter on Women's Radio Women's Radio Station. If you're passionate on your subject or topic, we'd like to hear from you wherever you are in the world about what's happening in your country, town, or city. It's your station, your voice to women of the world. So contact us, send an email to involved@womensradiostation.com. I'm Isabel Manley, an executive coach. Do you want to change a negative into a positive? We can do this by coaching you to rewire your brain using simple visualization techniques. In 20 years of practice, I've seen this transform lives. For more information, look on Women's Radio website, call me on 07984 422 1111, 171. I'm listening. Women's Radio Station is a not-for-profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help.