Get Booked – Guilt And Obsession

Hello, I'm Hazel and this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. One of the great things about my job and this show is that I get to meet and chat to authors of books I've read and loved. Today's guest is an author local to me who was brought to my attention by podiatrist, mid-corn removal, as you do, a Times bestselling author with her debut Obsession, then Guilt following that. Hello, Amanda, how are you? Hello, hi, it's lovely to be here and lovely to meet you. Yeah, finally. We've been chatting away on Twitter. Yes. And I've absolutely loved reading the first one, or the second of your books actually. I read it in about 2 days. Oh, well, I'm really glad that you enjoyed it. I was just, ironically, I was obsessed with it even though Obsession was the first one. Yeah, it's, Obsession is next on my list to read. I cannot wait, but I need to make sure it's on a weekend where I'm not gonna get interrupted. I like to just blast all the way through them 'cause you write thrillers. That's right, psychological thrillers. Yes, I've written two. Obsession is a book about two young couples with young children who are close friends, and the wife in one of the couples has a rampant affair with the husband from the other couple, and then everybody's relationships dissolve. So that's my first book. As they would. As they would, yes. And my second one begins with a stabbing. That's the one you've read, isn't it, Gilt? Well, it starts off with a woman admitting she's just murdered her sister to the police. That's right, yes. It's a stabbing that leaves one twin sister dead, and the other one accused of her murder. So that's right, yes, that's exactly how it starts. And then it's written in two timelines after that, which is the present with the sister who's being accused of murdering, is in prison, and the backstory as to what caused the argument. And you might not be too surprised to find out it's a man that comes between them. I don't think that's too much of a spoiler. Oh, you could knock me off my chair. What is quite interesting actually is because it— You also tell a story from different people's perspectives as well, which is quite interesting to kind of— Have you ever watched The Affair? Oh, yes, I have. But I had already— I think I'd already written Obsession before I watched The Affair. But I loved The Affair with the way the different minds, the way they film it differently with a slightly different— Somebody sits at a different place at the table or someone has a slightly different outfit onto what you thought because it's all in the memory's different. Memory and perception so different. Well, that's the thing. It's the perceptions of what's happened. And it's not like people are lying. It's just how they remember things. We might see a hurtful incident or a terrific kind of party and somebody will see it in completely different eyes. And do you think the affair copied from your book? I shouldn't think so. But I do actually love that programme. I find it fascinating. I found it great because although you might be completely hurt by a particular event, the other person has a different perspective. It's not right or wrong, it's just the way that they see things. And because you write psychological thrillers, inevitably it means that quite often the people that are in these stories are psychologically damaged. Yes, yes, yes. How do you get the inspiration for these books? Well, I've always really enjoyed the historical timeline thrillers of Barbara Erskine and Kate Moss. Those are always the sort of books I've liked, and Daphne du Maurier. So I think I've always been fascinated fascinated in sort of the psychological aspects of people's behavior, bad behavior, and what causes people to do awful things. So I think they've inspired me, really. And have you had any form of training to understand the mentality of some of these people? Have you, what have you experienced to help? Because you got it, you completely got it the way that, I don't wanna give the story away too much, but, Just the different psychological elements of what the other sister felt and the bloke that got in the way, and even the way that the mother felt as well about all the different relationships. You got it head on. Oh, thank you very much. I think for me, when I was younger, I used to do a lot of amateur dramatics. I just loved drama, you know, when you're sort of imagining and pretending to be somebody. And I've always just had an imagination where I like to pretend. So if I'm walking down the street at dusk and the curtains are open and I look into someone's house, I sometimes think to myself, "Oh, I wonder what would happen if I just walked into that house and walked into their life and I became part of their life?" And I start imagining a little story. So I think it's for me, when I'm writing a scene or I make up the plot, and then as I write each scene, I do in my study, I sit in my study and I imagine I'm that person in that scene, sort of live through it, you know, almost physically. And that's how I do it. But only, I haven't got a degree in psychology. Quite a lot of the writers have got degrees in psychology. Okay. Yes, or something like that. It's not, it's one of the things I'm not, noticing. It's funny, it's very kind of Stanislavski-esque, isn't it? Where you kind of put yourself in that, in the position of the particular person that you're writing from or to get the particular viewpoint. I do actually have a psychology degree, but I don't really use it. But then you're fascinated by all these books, you see. So that's interesting to me. And you're interviewing people and, you know, that sort of all fits together, I think. I think that's more to do with the curiosity because it's great to meet these people who just, get the perspective bang on. And I just, I like to get into the mind of other people and I'm really nosy, generally. It sounds like there's a big overlap between writers and interviewers and bloggers. Yeah, we want to get our opinions out there, but we want to know other people's opinions and we like to, I just think it's incredible to kind of get into the mind of somebody who can write such stories because not everybody can do it. And obviously you've done very well because you are a bestselling author. Well, thank you very much. Well, the Times told us so. Yeah, no, it's all been very exciting, I must say. But I think as well though, to all the people out there who are writing who haven't been published yet, I remember when I did my writing course, a lot of writers came to talk to us all and we would have given our right arms to be there, you know, in their position, published. We were all aspiring writers and so desperate to get published. And one of the writers who spoke to us, she said, "Enjoy this stage that you're at when you're writing your first novel and you can take as long as you want and write whatever you want and think deeply about it." Because once you get published, you get on more of a bandwagon, you know, you get— So now I'm marketed as a crime fiction writer. So all my novels must have a crime in for the publishing house to market me. And I'm on a 6-month deadline. You know, I have to write a novel in 6 months, which is quite hard work. Yes, because it takes 6 months then with the editing and the printing. So, I mean, I still enjoy it very much and there are lots of benefits benefits of being published. I'm not trying to badmouth it, but it's just like anything else in life. To all the writers who are just enjoying their writing, just writing whenever they want, what they want, that freedom, artistic freedom, they should enjoy that stage too. But when someone said that to me 5, 6, 7 years ago, I thought they were crazy, and now I'm saying it. Well, it's the same with most things. As soon as you get successful, there is more pressure on you to keep on being successful. And, you know, all these people who are having these supposedly incredible lives out there in the public eye, they're busy. You know, people are having breakdowns going, "Oh my God, there's so much going on." But do you know what? It is as well an honor to be a writer that is successful. There's so many great authors out there that just, they can't get published. And there's actually some very successful self-publishers. Oh, very, yes. Out there at the moment as well. Quite a few publishing houses going, "Oh, why did we say we didn't want to publish their book?" Well, J.K. Rowling. Mm-hmm. Well, did she? She struggled to get published. So many people turned her down. She did brilliantly, didn't she? Yes, they said that, what was it, the famous thing? They said, "Don't leave your day job." And she's made so much money. But it does make you wonder, doesn't it? Because I mean, my children, my eldest son's the same age as Harry Potter. And they were so bored of all the literature, you know, because the things like Enid Blyton and all the things we'd read when I'd read when I was younger. But they were very old-fashioned. And then there was something called Goosebumps, and that used to terrify my son. Sorry, should we— Peter, don't listen. Didn't he think it was supremely brave? But when Harry Potter came out, everybody just, it was a lovely, amazing, magical new world, and it's given everyone so much pleasure. And yet, you know, and fortunately Bloomsbury did, you know, publish it, and all the stories about the daughter who found it, wasn't it the editor's daughter read the beginning and said, "Oh, isn't this, this is great, Dad." And she was the right age of the market, gave it a go. But I mean, for a layperson, as a mother at home at that time, I could have said, my kids are bored stiff of the literature that the publishing houses are bringing out. So, you know, the time was right. She's a brilliant writer, everything else, and we desperately needed something new and brilliant. So we all just lapped it up. And the rest is billionaire history. Yeah, and she's fantastic. And also, actually, I'm a big fan of hers, but I absolutely love the Robert Galbraith Her series about the detective. Oh, they're fantastic. Honestly, they're fantastic. I mean, I've read, I think she's done, I think I've read 2 or 3, but there's a new one out, Lethal White. It's got amazing reviews. I've got the hard copy, I've got it by my bed, but I haven't had a chance to, I'm saving it for my holidays 'cause it's gonna be a real pleasure. But a lot of people said that's her best yet. And when you think of everything else she's already produced, I mean, she's just phenomenal. So is that more aimed at the adult market? Yes, yes, it's a crime, it's brilliant. It's about a sort of, a detective, a private detective and his assistant. And he was, I think he was in the army and I think he was injured. So I think he's got a false leg or, I should remember all this given the fact that I've loved it and read it all, but I'm just a bit knackered. But anyway, it's the rapport between his assistant and this detective and the whole stories and the way it's written. And it's just amazing, the writing. But that's the joy. Of a good book is when they develop the characters so much that you just, I mean, there's an author that I love, Kerry Wilkinson, who wrote all the Northern Jessica Daniel books, and he was self-published until he sold millions, and then people started knocking on his door going, "Oh, by the way, we got it wrong. Can we start publishing your books, please?" And the characters he develops, I mean, I'm on my 13th, no, 12th book of a particular series that he's done. Yeah, no, I think I've read it on your blog. But J.K. Rowling wasn't self-published though. No, she wasn't. No, it was just that like a lot of other people, she took a while to, You know, she got lots of rejections, but nearly everybody gets loads of rejections. So, yes. Well, what I'm going to do is we're just going to pop off for a very quick break, and we're back in a few minutes, and I've got so much more that I want to talk to you about. WRS, Women's Radio Station, voice of women worldwide. Sarah's Universal Soul Show. 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Today we have been talking to Amanda Robson, the author of best-selling books Obsession and Guilt, and we've been chatting away about how you've, how you came up with the ideas for your books and the process of getting published and the different books that you're reading at the moment and the authors that you like. Now, what I have been doing throughout this week is I've been looking at your website, amandarobson.com. Amandarobson.co.uk. You have writing tips on your website, don't you? Yes, I do, yes. Do you want to talk through some of those? I think I've forgotten what I put. It's alright, make it up, make it up. I think one of them was about conversation because I think a lot of people, when I first started writing, I made conversations as realistic as possible and of course they were very long and boring because in a novel when you're trying to tell a story, the conversation has to communicate something and it has to be fairly is succinct. You know, you're not going to say, "How are you?" "Oh, my right toe's hurting and I've got a headache and I've just taken 2 paracetamol." It's not going to move the story forwards. And yet, you know, in real life we spend a lot more time just chattering about something and nothing and you do have to cut all that out. But that brings a reality to a conversation and a situation a little bit more, doesn't it? Well, that's what I used to think, but it does slow down, well, for the sort of writing I'm doing with these sort of crime fiction, it just slows the plot down. I think it does just generally slow the plot down. Right. You know, you have to have something to say, really, even in every conversation that's moving the plot forwards, or at least, you know, it's telling the reader something they need to know. Yeah. Rather than, you know, just to make it— well, it also has to be real. It has to be realistic, but it's not— it's sort of top-end, quick-fire realistic, if you see what I mean. It's sort of a condensed conversation. But that's to do with the art of linguistics, really, isn't it? Yes. Just to get something across as you said, succinctly, quick, but moving the story forward. I've actually got your website open so I can remind you. You can remind me of my tips. It's about speech needs to be more West Wing. That's right. You know when they walk and talk and it's all clever witty. I mean, you can get a bit sick of that actually, 'cause it's so over the top clever all the time. But you know, it's, yeah, I do think that's the sort of thing you need to go for more than, you know, How's your grandma? Oh, she's not doing too well. You're gonna go see her soon? No, probably not. Don't have the time. Anyway, yeah, I see where you're going with that. Yeah, you said the writing strength is in the verb. Oh, that's one of the first things they tell you on these courses. And it's very— a lot of people, when you first get told that, including myself, we're sort of a bit outraged because, you know, you like adjectives, you like the flowery language. And it took me quite a long time to learn learn that that is true, I think. That the more practice you get at writing, if there's an interesting verb and I can't quite think of a good sentence to explain what I mean, but if you do read through a page slowly of a novel, you will see that the more interesting sentences have a stronger verb. Right. Okay. I mean, that's— see, these are the kind of tips that we need because you don't always think of them and sometimes you're looking at a page and thinking, why is it not quite cutting it? And it's those kind of bits of advice that help. What was the best piece of advice you were ever given when you first started out? I think my— I did the Faber writing course at the Faber Academy and that was a wonderful experience for me. And my tutor there, he— what he believes very strongly is everybody must really write about about what they really believe in, what they really want. It more comes from your stomach than your head or your heart. It's just really, you have to really believe in what you're doing. And I think— That makes sense. And I mean, the other thing is as well, I do think you really have to put, if you really want to write, you have to persevere because for most writers, most writers, it takes a long time and they get a lot of rejections. So you have to be doing it because you really love doing it 'cause you're probably gonna spend a lot of years doing it. You have to really want to do it. I mean, there are a lot of people out there who can write pretty well, but they just haven't got the stamina to keep doing it. Yeah, or again, to keep on bouncing back after rejection and rejection. It's kind of similar with blogging as well because you don't write a blog and 100,000 people read it. You've got to push, push, push. And the only way you can get through it is if you enjoy it anyway. So you're not, it doesn't bother you yet that you're not making the money or it's not going everywhere because you're enjoying it anyway and you do need to love what you do. And it's an honor, isn't it, to be a successful writer, to be able to do what you love and write about what you love and for other people to appreciate it and for you to get rewarded in such a way. Yes, which is another good reason why you should try, well, you should try and make sure you're writing what you do love because if you just flippantly write something else and then you get pushed into the wrong genre for the rest of your writing life, that's not necessarily gonna be the route thing for you. So you should stick to what you believe in and what you like, kind of thing. And you believe in thrillers and dealing with psychos. I'm a psycho. No, no, no. Hey, some of my best friends are psychos. No, the other thing I have found that a lot of the writers that I know, they do have a really creative imagination, you know, because I think, you know, you can improve, you can learn how to write grammatically correctly. You can learn how to tightly edit things, you know, on a course or something. Everything has to be very tightly edited to get looked at. And I think sometimes people are a little bit shocked as to how perfectly edited things have to be before publishing. You know, you send your first 3 chapters off and they probably only look at the first page and you can tell almost on the first page if something's clumsily written or badly edited. And I think they're looking for a very high standard. And I think it gives people a bit of a shock just how difficult the editing is. I think that's one of the things you learn on the courses is how to edit really carefully. But despite all of that, I don't think, I'm not sure, listeners can disagree, you could answer me this. I think someone having a creative imagination must be quite difficult to teach. And I think that might be the thing that a lot of writers have in common that is just inherent. And that you can't, so people could go on all the writing courses in the world, but if they've not got much of an imagination, what they're gonna write is probably gonna be a bit boring. Now that sounds horrible, so if you've got a good imagination, keep going. Yeah. Really do, because that is a valuable thing to have. But that's what sets some of the bestsellers apart from Joe Bloggs, who possibly hasn't done as well. I mean, you can teach to a certain element, a bit of creativity and you can help people try and find that creativity within you. But some people are just, as I was saying before, it's just innate. It's within them. And this isn't the, your first book that you wrote on your own. It wasn't the first book that you actually wrote. You wrote a book with a group of people, didn't you? Well, years and years and years ago, I mean, we talk about 35 years or whatever. Oh, really? I used to work in science. I used to work at the poisons unit. Is that what you're talking about? And I did a cyanide, but yeah, but that wasn't, I mean, that was a huge tome on cyanide poisoning where somebody tried to gather all the information they could on the effects of cyanide. And I was working at the poisons unit at Guy's Hospital and I had to collate all the cases of people who'd been poisoned and just write up what had happened to them. But most of them had died so fast, there wasn't much information anyway, 'cause cyanide just closes your whole body down. Your cells can't absorb oxygen and they I can't metabolize. Anyway, it was a long time ago and it wasn't hardly a very creative book. It wasn't, but I wrote several books before the ones that got published that never got published. I spent 7 years writing a historical fiction dual timeline thing that I really cared about. And I've still got that under the bed. Do you not feel like now that you've got publishers turn around and say, "Now do you like this book?" Well, I showed it to my agent and she said, "I think you've found your genre now." I like that. It's probably best to stay under the bed. But, you know, yeah, I still care about it. I spent a lot of time researching it and it was about a suffragette. It was about a suffragette and a modern lady who was a great-great-granddaughter or whatever. And each woman was sort of committed to make a social difference in life. So I had the modern woman who was, she'd given up a good job and she'd invested and started a pharmaceutical company to try and find a cure for malaria, which sort of sort of based on what they've been doing. There's Melinda Gates. They have sometimes done that in America. They're still fighting against malaria. I think they've made a lot of progress. But I was trying to deal with women's issues, you know, suffrage, and then I was thinking about medical issues for children in the third world. For the modern woman to be her thing, she was trying to, every woman in the generations had to do something to make life better. So, her moral— From her perspectives, kind of. Yes, but I didn't quite manage I mean, I had quite a lot of interest in it. Quite a few agents looked at it and said they liked it, but there's not much of a market for historical fiction at the moment or something. So I sort of bubbled under with it, but I never quite got it there. Well, you never know. Could you self-publish it or? Well, I could do, but I'm so busy now writing E-Cyclist. I need to get it up to the standard I want to. I'd still have to work and you just can't do everything. I'd love to do that. I've got loads of things I'd love to do, but you can't do everything. Yeah, I hear that. Oh, we are coming to the end of the interview. So I very quickly want to know, have you got another book coming out soon? Yes, I've got, and my next novel is called "Envy" and it's coming out on the 2nd of May next year. So yeah. Will you come in and chat to us again? Oh yeah, I'd love to do that. I'd love to, Hazel. It's been great fun talking to you. Great. Well, I'm gonna make sure that I read your first book 'cause obviously I went straight to the second one. And then as soon as "Envy" comes out, I'm all over it. I cannot wait. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today. And everybody can listen every, every day, 5 PM. And I will see you next week. Thank you for joining us here at Women's Radio Station. And make sure if you have any book recommendations for me, please do get in touch at Women's Radio Station. And for now, thank you very much. See you next week. Welcome to Women's Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. Hungry? An average woman eats about 2 to 3 kilos of lipstick in her lifetime. 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