Get Booked – Manic Man By Jason Wegner, How To Live Successfully With A Severe Mental Illness

Hello, this is Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and I absolutely love doing this show, talking to authors, chatting about anything and everything books related, and all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books can provide. Sit back and let us entertain you with a different author each week, sharing who they are, what they do, and what inspires them. Opening discussions and offering support via the incredible writing community out there. Come and join us, get involved. If you want to catch up on previous shows, you can do at womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked. Now, on today's show, we're going to be discussing Manic Man: How to Live Successfully with a Severe Illness by Jason Wegner. Now, Manic Man: How to Live Successfully with a Mental Illness is an account of Jason's experiences living with a a severe mental illness, a bipolar 1 disorder. What's it really like finding yourself in the throes of a hypomanic stage for the first time, and then to find yourself in an acute psychiatric ward for 57 days, followed by 7 months of depression? This is what Jason's book addresses in a raw and honest account of Jason's life before, and during his diagnosis of bipolar 1 disorder, and with help from Dr. Burns, how he lifted himself from severe depression and is now living successfully with a severe mental illness. Dr. Burns developed the Octagon of Life, focusing Jason's recovery on 8 areas. Following the plan, Jason's depression just really managed to be focused on and to be able to work with it. And he experienced post-traumatic growth that has made him, in his own words, a more fulfilled person than before the diagnosis. This really is an eye-opening book. It's incredible. I have loved reading it, and I think there's nothing more incredible than being able to find out more about other people so that we can be more understanding. Here's Jason joining us on Get Booked today. Hi Jason, how are you? I'm doing fantastic, Hazel, how are you? Do you know what, not bad, not bad. I had, do you know what, I came back from holiday a couple of weeks ago and I read your book by the side of a beach while also intermittently watching Netflix, um, Made. Have you seen that? Sorry, could you repeat that? You cut out for a sec. Oh, there's, so there's a new Netflix program called Made And it's with Andy McDowell and her daughter. So basically, I was on holiday reading your book, reading about everything that you had to say about bipolar. And at the same time, I was watching this program on Netflix where the mother has bipolar disorder. And it was so interesting watching it concurrently and just being able to understand a little bit more and understand more layers of bipolar disorder, which is what this book is about, isn't it? You want people to understand more. Absolutely. It's really interesting. I'll have to check out that program because, uh, sometimes pop culture doesn't really depict bipolar disorder very accurately. So hopefully, uh, they did a good job of accurately, uh, portraying that because stereotypically the bipolar person is the person who can't control their emotions. They're up, they're down, they're up, they're down. And for me, it was like that during my manic episode, which I'm sure we'll touch on. But now that I'm stabilized, I still have bipolar 1 disorder, but I'm living a normal lifestyle like anybody else would with the full range of emotions that anyone else would experience. With air quotes around normal because who is normal? Yes, air quotes. Yeah, absolutely. Well, if we can start off with, if you just explain to us, what is bipolar disorder? And do you need medication for that? Yeah, so bipolar disorder is characterized by the shifts, the uncontrollable shifts in mood and behavior left untreated. And there's two types of it. There's bipolar I, which is what I have, bipolar II. Bipolar II is simply the hypomanic symptoms and stages of it, and it's without the full-blown manic episode. So the full-blown manic episode has symptoms such as pressured speech, rapid thinking, grandiose ideas, financial foolery, um, substance abuse. All of those symptoms are what I experienced in bipolar I disorder. And bipolar II is just milder symptoms of that without the full-blown manic episode that I experienced. And typically bipolar II is not hospitalized. It's treated through medication and, and, uh, doctor appointments and taking care of it. But bipolar I typically does require hospitalization because it is quite severe. And that's what happened to me is I had a manic episode for 3 straight months in the summer of 2017. And like you mentioned, I was hospitalized for 57 days in the acute psychiatry ward, experienced 7 months of the depression, the severe depression afterwards. And how I got out of the depression was taking medication regularly. And to this day, I still take Wellbutrin as an antidepressant and Abilify as a bipolar medication. And that mixture is perfect for me because I'm not experiencing any side effects anymore and I can live my life again, which is the wonders of pharmaceuticals in our, in our today's society. Well, you did actually say at the end of the book, at the end of Manic Man, that obviously there's, there's a balance, isn't there? And you sometimes have to tweak the medication for a number of months until it— until you get it right. But, you know, you put that time and the effort in, and when you get it right, it's, it's obviously working for you. And time and effort is definitely something to touch on there because it took a year, so 12 months, and 22 changes and adjustments before we got the medication right. Which is an astounding amount. And I hear people all the time saying that, well, I've tried everything, you know, I've been on 7 different trials of medication. And I just try to remind them that you have to be patient when it comes to medication because you're literally trying to throw darts at a moving dartboard trying to hit a bullseye. Well, because everybody is different. It's not a case of there is bipolar I disorder, you have it, this is what you need. No, because people are different. Every single person is different. Everybody's surroundings are different. And we all work in slightly different ways. And so I think it just— books like this help people to appreciate, you know, if at first you don't succeed, try and try again. And this is why, because you really did detail in such fantastic depth about the whole process. And I think it was done with such humility as well. It really is a beautiful book. You must have had some really good responses and reviews to this. I mean, it was released on the 14th of October, wasn't it? It was, yeah. Manic Band was released 14th of October and it's available in local stores in the UK and on Amazon worldwide. And the response has been really heartwarming. And my, my publisher and publicist, they both said my numbers are extraordinary. It's selling like crazy because they really expected me to sell, you know, a couple copies here and there, you know, and it's, it's really exploding into a quite a phenomenon right now, which is great. Well, I think that's— that is so heartwarming to hear as well, because it proves that people are wanting to find out more about each other and to help understand so that we can all help each other more. And, you know, there's definitely in the past, there's certain mental illnesses that people haven't understood, and the gen pop have thought, oh well, that's a selfish illness, or this and that. We just— you've got to understand that the brain is extremely intricate, and the more that we appreciate that people aren't always in control of what they do and how they respond, then, you know, it's, it's beneficial to all of us. I, I want to ask you though, especially as I was reading about what was happening to you in the Well, in, in the manic stage, does it feel like bipolar? Your brain appears to be running at about 150 miles an hour. That's precisely what it is, and I describe that to people all the time. You know, imagine your thoughts and then multiply it by 100. That's what rapid thinking is like. You literally can't control one thought to the next, and it's scatter scatterbrained and all over the place, and you're just thinking so fast that you can't, you can't get the words out fast enough. Like, I may talk fast today, but you should have seen me in mania. It was like a mile a minute. I, because I just couldn't externalize my thoughts fast enough. And, and that's where the gibberish kind of came in, and the hundreds of social media posts a day to externalize my thoughts, and the hundreds and hundreds of pages of journals that I have and the audio journals of evidence that I have as well, that I all quote in Manic Men as well. So it was— it's wild to think how, how fast the brain can think when it's supercharged like that in mania. And when you run out of paper or you're told not to go on social media anymore, you used your body in the end, didn't you? I did. So I took a vow of silence a few days before I entered the hospital. Um, here in Canada we have Terry Fox Day, which is the Marathon of Hope. He was a cancer survivor— a cancer— an athlete who lost his leg to cancer, and he did a Marathon of Hope and ran across the country back in the '90s, I believe it was. And so I wanted to do my own marathon, but I was going to do the Marathon of Silence instead of the Marathon of Hope with the, with the man who didn't have a leg who ran across Canada. I would be the boy who couldn't shut up, finally did. And so I was going to do a vow of silence for— to raise money for children in Africa. And it turned out to just be me writing all over my body, my arms, my legs, my shorts, because I thought I was going to be kind of like a walking image of, uh, the, the silence because I wasn't talking. So I had to externalize my information somehow. And so I was writing all over myself, and I still have the shorts that I walked into the hospital with that had my writing all over, which is an image in Manic Men as well. So absolutely, it was hard to externalize your thoughts when you tell yourself you can't speak. And so I journaled lots even more. And then when I entered the hospital, they could visibly tell something was wrong with me because I had hashtags and notes and all these things all over my body and clothes. Well, that really does exemplify the rationale, doesn't it, of somebody in mania who they can't stop their brain from going at 150 miles an hour, but they suddenly decide, I'm going to go silent for a little bit. It's just not going to happen. Um, no, I do. I mean, I, I know that we've kind of— you did say that sometimes in mainstream media when they're depicting bipolar in films and TV, that they don't always do it accurately. But there seems to be quite a reluctance when they do do it to— the person that's playing the part does not want to go on medication. Now, is this because the brain is running at what, what they think is such an incredible speed that is creating unbelievable thought processes that they don't want to stop that? Great question, and I get asked this quite a few times, is did I refuse medication because I was obstinate or because I thought I was superhuman? What was the latter? I thought I was superhuman. I had all these new abilities, and I thought everybody just wasn't on my level. I, because I could think so fast, and I had all these plans for, you know, getting a PhD and everything and writing a novel and becoming a Pink Floyd cover band rock star. And I had, I had all of these great plans, and I thought that if I was to take medication, I'd be giving away my powers. So when I entered the hospital, I actually refused medication for 2 weeks until it was forced upon me by the hospital after an appeal hearing where a Board of Health member, a head nurse, the psychiatrist parents, they all sat down and I tried to explain my story of freedom, that this was a mistake, I shouldn't be in here. And funny enough, I actually did take another vow of silence before this appeal because while I was in the hospital for 2 weeks, nobody was listening to me or my story or my pleas for getting out of there. So I thought, well, if I take a vow of silence and just write down everything that maybe they can understand, because the power of word written down is, is enormous. And I'm a brilliant writer at this point, I thought anyways. And so I wrote down my story, my ticket to freedom. And of course, I was denied that and was given a slip of paper that said, written reasons to follow, you have to take your medication now. And I did reluctantly take the medication, but not after spitting it out one more time just to see if I was really meant to take the medication. And of course I did. As the nurse came over to the trash can, looked at— I spit it out and then went over to me and said, Jason, do you want needles? Because we can legally give you the injection now of medication, or will you take your medication like a nice guy and take it orally instead? I said, no needles, please. I will definitely take the medication. And that's when I started to get better. But it was absolutely reluctant because I did not want to give up my superpowers, or what I thought were superpowers at the And why would you? It was, you know, it was such a bit of, it's quite an emotional rollercoaster. Because when you did your impassioned speech to the board, when you were trying to appeal against being forced to take this medication, the way you put it across to the board, it just, it was so beautifully done. And you were convinced that because of this clever speech, without a doubt, you would convince them there was nothing wrong and you surely didn't need medication. And then And within about 3 seconds, he went, yeah, that pretty much gives us everything we need to know to insist that you need to take medication. I was like, oh, but he's so convinced. And it was like, oh, precisely. And that's what it is, is you, you get so firm in your mind that you, you're right when you're in mania, that you just cannot accept anybody else's opinion or, or, or the facts really. And I remember bouncing with energy before I walked into that, that that meeting because I was like thunderstruck by AC/DC's playing in the background, and I'm gonna win this. This is the biggest fight of my life. I'm like a boxer going in for the, the 7th round and— or the 9th round. And, and then I lost, and it was devastating. Like, I, I still remember to this day sitting in my hospital bed getting that slip of paper and just being like, you got to be kidding me. I thought I explained everything so fully, and You smashed it, right? Then it was exactly— I thought I crushed it. And it was just, no, it was just all the evidence we needed. And then some to put you away for another month, which was really hard. But like I said, eventually I came around and was all on board. Once I took that first dosage of medication, it must've been incredibly cathartic writing about the whole process and kind of going through what you went through. Again, and looking at it completely from a different perspective, and also a little bit of a chance to kind of— there seems to be quite a few apologies in there to your parents and to people who must have just had to have watched this happen because, you know, it's very— it was very hard for you to accept help, and then to go through the process of your recovery and then tell people about your experience so that they can learn of the fantastic ways that, you know, you can turn your life around and to manage your own condition? Absolutely. It was very cathartic in the sense that it was part of my recovery, was to go through every journal, every social media post, every audio journal, every text, every tweet. Everything. I went over it all because when I got out of the hospital, I was really quite ashamed of myself, of my behavior and my illness, and I felt really bad about it. And when I was just, you know, in society again, reintegrated, I would get triggered and think about the hospital, and then it would make me feel crummy. And so my psychologist, Dr. Bernes, the co-author, he said, well, the best thing you could do is do exposure therapy, which is flooding yourself with emotions and being angry and sad and depressed or whatever you need to feel, and look at everything in a controlled way an hour a day until you feel neutral or better about the entire situation. And so that's what I did. And after about 10 days to 2 weeks of doing that an hour a day, I started to see some humor in it and see some of the funny things that I said or did. And then, you know, started to make amends with those people that I felt like I needed to. And Everybody was more than understanding at that stage, you know, once I was out of the hospital. But, um, coming to terms with it was extremely important for my recovery. And then to go through all the recovery steps and now being able to share it and hopefully help someone else either know that they can live successfully with a severe mental illness like I outline in Manic Man, or at least know that they're not alone in this struggle and that people that had a normal life beforehand can develop this illness, and it's okay to have a mental illness for sure. Now, if somebody has bipolar 2, can that develop into bipolar 1 if it's untreated? If it's untreated, it can get more severe, and if it can be triggered by substances such as, um, mind-altering substances such as marijuana or cannabis and psychedelic drugs It could be a trigger. So I may have had bipolar 2, who knows? But then the triggers that I had, which were stress, lack of sleep, drugs, that all triggered into a perfect storm of the manic episode. And once you have one manic episode, you're diagnosed for life as bipolar 1. Right, I see. It's like, it's like you've opened that can of worms. Yeah, and it— and each subsequent manic episode episode, it's harder to recover from. I have a friend in Canada here who has had 5 manic episodes, and it's, it's been really hard on the guy because the first one was just genes and stress of school, that he was in high school and it developed into a manic episode and he found himself hospitalized. Then his second and third ones were both triggered by marijuana use, and then his fourth one triggered by lack of sleep. And his most recent fifth one triggered by stress. So for me, I, I look at that as a warning sign of I have to stay clean in my life, I have to abstain from mind-altering substances such as drugs, and I really have to key in on my sleep and, uh, manage stress levels as best as I can, because ending up in the hospital is not a place I ever want to return to in a manic state, for sure. Yeah, I mean, does that kind of hang over you like a black cloud? Or do you feel like you've got enough control of your own psyche and your own surroundings that you feel like you're controlling it as much as you possibly can? I mean, I know there's certain situations where I know I will be triggered and I try and just stay away. I mean, I don't have bipolar, but there's many of us that have certain mental health issues or anxiety issues. And, you know, people have to learn to manage their surroundings, but this is so much more extreme for you. So you must put quite a few practices in place to make you feel comfortable. I do. And the biggest thing that helped me is just time. My psychiatrist, Dr. Alberto Palma, the psychiatrist, he said that the longer I go without a manic episode, the better chance I have of never having another one. So that's why I try to live such a healthy lifestyle, which is, you know, through regular exercise, nutrition, seeing my psychologist regularly for therapy, just to make sure that I have my career and relationships and finances and everything, uh, tickety-boo and planned so I don't get too stressed in my life. And that is one of the major things that I focus on, is managing my stress, making sure I get enough sleep, and just having a plan for, um, if I do get ill again or start feeling the rapid thoughts coming again or, or erratic behavior. Uh, I, I see my psychologist once a month, and those meetings usually have somewhat of a check-in feel to it where I, I get to check in with them to make sure things are good. And, you know, recently with school and coaching American football, I was starting to teeter on the edge of burnout, and we decided that I needed to scale back a little bit because that could tailspin into something ugly, right? And seeing my psychiatrist every 3 months to make sure the medication is dialed in is another strategy that I have. So Just staying with regular appointments with my, my doctors has been really helpful in living that healthy lifestyle. That's how I, it's how I manage it. And also knowing that the longer I go with this healthy stretch, the better chance I have of never having another one of these manic episodes. Unless of course I somehow get snuck a mind-altering substance like a marijuana brownie or something stupid like that, then that could change the game. But I'm very cautious when I'm around such substances and such like that, so it's It's really easy to abstain from it now, but originally it was hard to abstain from because I was so, um, well, it was a habit. Um, interestingly, what you do to kind of keep your life in check is pretty much what everybody should be doing anyway. It's just you've been given more of a reason to do so, and the the motivation to do so. We should all really be doing those sort of things, but you know, you have a bit more of a goal now and it's very important for you. You're currently a university student at the University of Lethbridge working towards becoming an English language arts teacher. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Right, I'm in my last practicum or internship as an English Language Arts teacher at a high school here in Lethbridge, and I'll be graduating on December 17th and looking for work as a teacher in the new year, which is really exciting. It's been 6 years in the making. I did take that one semester off because of being in the hospital, but getting back on path and finishing off my degree has been a major goal of mine for many years, and I just love working with kids and being able to connect with them, especially when it comes to mental health. Like, I've given so many presentations now to different classrooms and to the student body about my story and my mental illness and how we can all together work towards destigmatizing mental illness and mental health challenges, because I think we all play a part in that. And so I'm really, uh, thankful for being in a career where I get the opportunity to help young people and students and teenagers, uh, get to their full potential, especially in the English language arts room where I get to talk about great books and teach kids how to write better. And it's just the, the perfect career for me. Well, it's great that you're doing that. I— something that I like to ask all of my guests on Get Booked are their top 3 tips on good mental health and mental well-being. Um, what would you have— what 3 tips would you have for our listeners? I would say if you do have a mental illness or a mental health challenge and you have seen a doctor and that they have prescribed medication, we've touched on this earlier, but staying patient and sticking with the process of trying to find the medication, that would be my number 1 tip, is Finding the— dialing in that medication and taking it religiously. And the biggest thing is, just because you're starting to feel better doesn't mean you stop taking the medication unless directed by your doctor. That's a mistake people make time and time again, where they start to feel better, they don't want to take the medication anymore because it's inconvenient or for whatever reason, and then they unders— then they wonder why they're tailing back into a spiral. And so taking medication religiously would be number one. Number 2 would be living a healthy lifestyle. So exercising regularly and eating clean, healthy food, uh, is integral for me for keeping my energy levels high and keeping balanced. And then finally, my third mental wellness tip would be sleeping well and really dialing in your sleep because it's so important. If we're constantly tired, it can trigger so many mental health challenges and I'm sure you can find many resources on how to develop a better sleeping habit, such as, you know, having blackout curtains and keeping your room really dark and putting your cell phone away from your nightstand, all the things. And so dialing in sleep for me has been really important. So medication, healthy lifestyle, and good sleep would be my top 3 tips. I love those. They're absolutely perfect. And what, what I would like to know Reading the book, again, it was like an emotional rollercoaster. Everything that you kind of went through and everything, and it's also weirdly quite exhausting as well, reading about your mania, and I wasn't the one having the mania. But then you get to, you end up being put in a psychiatric ward, and then you come out the other end and then the depression starts and you just kind of think, oh, give him a break. What was— I mean, what was hardest for you, the mania or the depression? I would say the depression because mania was fun. I was, you know, on top of the world. I, I had all these things. I'd moved out of my parents' basement and, you know, I'm, you know, moving and shaking. I'm making all these business plans, and I ended up in the hospital. And that was, uh, horrible for me in that state of mind. So mania was easy in the sense— got out of the hospital and the first thing my psychiatrist said was, this will take between 12 and 18 months for you to recover from before you get your life back. So I had to exercise an enormous amount of patience, which was extremely difficult in that state of mind. And it was the love and support of my fam— my family, especially my mom and dad and sister and grandparents, and also some friends for sure, that just helped support me through that depression. But it was so difficult because it was 7 months of just darkness and trying to get back to school. And luckily I was never suicidal because I had that regular interval, um, meetings with my doctors that just kept plugging away and mentioning like, this is part of the process. You just gotta be patient. It's gonna come. It's gonna come. You know, 12 to 18 months. And luckily it was about 8 months through the way that I started to feel better in my energy levels, and about 12 months before I fully got my life back, and about 18 months until I started to do better than I was before the diagnosis. So absolutely depression was the hardest, and I know a lot of people have experienced depression, and I just feel for folks that have to go through it like I did because it is hard for sure. And I think, I'm assuming that the readers of Manic Man, like myself, will go through this journey with you. And it's written in such a way that we really kind of feel like we know you. And all of a sudden we're just like, oh, but you're mania, I hope your friends stick with you because this feels like hard work. And then you get the depression, like, oh, please friends, just stick with him because it's hard work. It's hard on everybody around you, isn't it? It's very hard. And there were some relationships that didn't get mended for whatever reason. You know, it was a very chaotic time during that mania. But overwhelmingly, now that I've come out with my story, and when I first explained my story that I, you know, I wasn't just in the hospital for a broken leg or a hamstring, you know, I was there for a severe brain injury with my mania. People really started to understand and show compassion. And I was able to connect with people on a whole nother level. And once I started telling my story at my presentations and then writing the book, or writing Manic Men, it was amazing how many connections I can make with people. Because everybody out there either knows somebody with a mental health challenge or has one themselves. So it's, it's amazing to be able to connect with people and start talking about a very important subject. What I thought was quite key while you discussed your process is talking about the fantastic work of Dr. Brenes and the actual process and the different— what was the wheel called that he used? The Octagon of Life. The— oh, so it's kind of a rigid wheel. Yeah. If you can explain a little bit about the Octagon Octagon of Life and how we use this with you. So we started with— it was pretty much in a linear order of exercise, or of exercise, nutrition, exposure therapy, cognitive therapy, relationships, career, finances, and then mental health balance. Because when I got out of the hospital, like, the psychologist is more the therapy side of things and the psychiatrist is more the medication side of things. And so the psychiatrist can get me to baseline neutral where I'm feeling okay, but it was the psychological strategies of the psychologist that was going to lift me out of depression and into a life better than I had before. And so we really focused on getting me back to the gym, starting to exercise regularly and eat good food. And then, like I mentioned, the exposure therapy of de-triggering myself and flooding myself with emotions and going over every journal and post and all the things. And then cognitive behavioral therapy, which was eliminating any limiting thoughts and getting rid of thoughts that are cognitive distortions, such as, you know, I'm no good, and, you know, this is the end of the world, and just catastrophizing ideas that I had at the time. And then moving over after the psychological techniques to my relationships and trying to mend those and find a partner that I, that I want to have, or at least be clear on which I'd like. And then some career planning as to getting back to school and what that looks like and what life looks like after school. Getting my finances in order and developing an investment plan so I have, you know, no stress when it comes to finances and all that. And then lastly, returning to the mental health balance, which is the medication, meditation, and stress management techniques that he all provided me. So it's a very comp— overarching and comprehensive approach to recovery. But like Dr. Brenes has said many times, is bipolar is a very challenging condition, absolutely, but it's a highly treatable one as well. And I liked that it was very strategic in the way that he treated it. Was— it was kind of You could gauge it, couldn't you? Yeah, you could gauge it. And it was all a strategy. Like, he said, well, Jason, while you're in the hospital, I met with mom and dad for a meeting while you're in hospital, and we basically planned out the next 5 years of your life. And, and so when I got out of the hospital, I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, we're gonna get you back exercising, we're gonna dial in your nutrition, we're gonna do some psychological strategies to uh, alleviate any stress in your brain, and then all the other areas of the octagon that I've listed. So he is a brilliant man. He's helped so many people. And then when I came to session one time saying that I wanted to write a book, and he said, well, that's a good idea and everything, but instead of in 10 years like I initially said I would do it in, he said, you'll do it in 6 months, and I'll help you write it and give you all the profits to it. 100%. So he's been a huge cheerleader in my life and one of the most, uh, incredible mentors I've ever had. I, I love that he got involved with it, um, on this project. But I also— what, what is interesting is that while you were in Mania, you were talking about all these fantastical things that you were going to achieve, you know, in the next couple of years. And one of the main things that you kept on going back to was the fact that you were going to write a book. And ironically, you did, as part of the process of healing. Yes, and I say it in the book. I think the line is, um, you know, I, I didn't— the, the brilliant novel never came to fruition, but you are sitting here reading my book right now, which is pretty cool, or something like that. I remember writing a line in there in the book, and it was It was very ironic and full circle to write the book because I was always talking about, oh, I'm going to quit school and be an author. And, you know, I want to be a writer and all these things. And then I wrote this book, which Manic Man has come out with great success. And it's been wonderful because I remember thinking in mania that how would you live— this was an empowering question I had at the time. I said, how would you live your life if you knew you had to write a memoir or autobiography at the end of your life. And then ironically, here we are, Full Picture. It was— this wasn't the autobiography I anticipated, but it's, uh, it's one, uh, that I'm very proud of anyways. There's so much more of your life left, and I'm sure that we're going to be hearing lots from you. You must be really proud of yourself, actually, to get into this stage, but digging deep to actually put yourself out there with the— yes, help other people. Yeah, the aim is always to help other people and, and, uh, like be grateful for where I am. And the more I can share my story, hopefully the more people I can connect with on this and show them that they're not alone. They can live a successful life with a severe mental illness. And also, it, it's just, it— like you, like you mentioned, it's part of my healing is to be open about this because Because if I was to be a closeted bipolar person, I don't think I'd have the same levels of fulfillment that I do today. Well, no, because you're not, you're not living genuine, you're not living authentically, are you? You're not admitting who you are and sharing what's going on. I mean, you know, people go through certain severe mental illnesses and anybody can deal with it in any way that, that suits them. But this is, this is you, isn't it? This is, it must feel like your goal and something that you really do. Yeah. Yeah. Like I had somebody tell me that, you know, you shouldn't say that you're bipolar because your illness doesn't define you. And I say to that, I say, you're absolutely right. An illness does not define you. You define you. And I still call myself as a person who has bipolar disorder because, you know, people may have labeled me in the past as, you know, crazy or mentally ill, you know, bipolar. But now I kind of have flipped the script, at least in my own mind, where it's like I, I am bipolar and it doesn't define me because I'm living my life the way I want to live it. But you know what, Jason, this is— that's quite archaic thinking where people think that if you say that you have, that you are bipolar, that that is all you are. We can be anything we want to be these days, and we can be many things. In the past, you know, um, if you were a person with bipolar, that was everything about you. Now, you know, you can be— there are so many people in the public eye that deal with so many different, um, issues, whether it's a disability or a mental health issue, there's everything, but we can be absolutely anything and everything at the same time. And I love that, that you can embrace something about yourself, but it, as you said, it does not have to define you. No, and you're right, you can do anything you like, maybe not a professor of everything. I know one PhD is hard enough, but, um, You can definitely, uh, you know, when you— once you have rational goals and strategies towards achieving them, you can do anything. And I, I hope I've proven that, you know, from a manic state and being in the psych ward for 57 days to publishing a book and having a conversation with you, anything is possible. Because, you know, thinking back, uh, 4 years ago when I was in the hospital I dreamed of being on the radio one day and being on shows and, uh, news clips and everything and having my own book, but it seems so far in the distance, especially during that depression, that I just had to stay with the plan and be patient and take it one day at a time. And now I'm really happy to be where I am now. You took the words right out of my mouth. Yeah, you take, you take every day at a time. Now What I said about people in the public eye, they can be anything and everything, and not one particular thing should define anyone. Is there anybody in the public eye that you just think is really smashing life out the park? Now, I know that you're a huge Tim Robbins fan, and, uh, There's quite a few people that you mention in Manic Man who you kind of idolize, and you definitely— they did get a lot of airtime in the book. Is there somebody out there that you just think, do you know what, every time I listen to them, I feel good about myself? I think they're putting something good back into the world. Yeah, definitely Tony Robbins, like you mentioned. Oh, sorry, Tony Robbins. I said Tim Robbins. I apologize. That's okay. Yeah, Tony Robbins, he's, he's one of my heroes. I've been studying his work since I was 16, and he's completely changed my life. And he just gives so much and asks, asks for, you know, so little in return in comparison to what he gives. So I look at him as a real idol. Also, I had written down here, uh, Billy Joel, who's also a manic depressive or, uh, bipolar person. He's had a lot of challenges in his life and I just connect so much with his music. Like, "I Go to Extremes" is one of his songs that talks about living with bipolar disorder and "Summer Highland Falls" also talks about living with mental illness and longing for connection. So I look at— I really connect with his music a lot. But on a more local level, somebody that I really idolize is This is the first person I mentioned in the book, which is my, uh, strength and conditioning coach and boss now, Trevor Hardy, who is a local, uh, a local guru really in Lethbridge, where he trains our local hockey teams and has trained National Hockey League players and Olympians. And he's just so little known, but he is so well known in the area because he, he just helps so many people and he's been such a great mentor to me. He was the one that actually got me an appointment with Dr. Burness in the first place because they're friends. And I, I just really look up to him and Dr. Burness and other giants like Tony Robbins and Billy Joel. Those would be some of my favorite people in the world for sure. I've watched quite a few of the videos actually of Tony Robbins. He used to work for, um, a lifestyle coach and, and she idolized him as well and Billy Joel. I love his music, but you've got to be in the right frame of mind to listen to it, haven't you? Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes it's pretty elevated and sometimes it's pretty mellow, but I always find time for Billy Joel for sure. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. I prefer it with a glass of red wine. It really helps me mellow out. Scenes of an Italian restaurant, scenes of an Italian restaurant, right? His song about bottle of red, bottle of white. That's funny. So I wonder, are you part of some sort of support group in your area of people with bipolar, or is it not that kind of situation? It is. Um, so I kind of have a small close-knit group of, uh, what I like to call privately bipolar buddies, where, um, you know, people that have gone through similar challenges. I've got several friends who have connected with me and then have said, like, a mutual friend of ours is going through a manic episode, can you coach them through this? And with The Manic Man, the book coming out, I've had more people connect with me on that. And it's kind of a support group that is starting to grow. And I just try to mentor people as much as I can and direct them back to their doctor's advice and then try to share my story with them. To show them that this is something you can overcome and this is by no means the end of the world. It's just the beginning. So I do try to mentor folks whenever I can, for sure. That's great. We should, we should all try and give back and try and help each other out through life. If there's anybody listening right now who, not necessarily with bipolar, but with any other mental illness, whether that's severe or not, what advice would you give to them about writing a book to try and help people understand a little bit more? Start small. Start by, you know, the first stage of the writing process I tell my students is pre-writing. So I did a lot of drafting and sketching out the timeline of events and then looking over primary sources, which were my actual thoughts from the Time of Mania. So just making notes on your notes, so annotation of all your thoughts and just getting a sketch out there. And then once you start writing and actually start having coherent paragraphs form, just write. Don't worry about revisions or editing, just get it all out there. Be very— in a very cathartic way and just flood your, your computer screen or your journal with with your new perspective of, of everything. And if you are experiencing challenges in the moment, try to document it. Like, I found it very helpful in hindsight to look back on my thoughts and be able to juxtapose my sober thoughts now, now that I'm healthy and sane and well stabilized and everything, compared to my very manic thoughts and depressed thoughts at the time. So Sketch, plan, and then draft, and then come back to the revision and edits at another, at a later time. But just try to get your ideas out there is the first step, I think. I love that because you don't actually need to write with the view to being published. I mean, people can blog, or they can literally just try and order their thoughts by sketching and writing. I find it so helpful especially say if I'm dealing with something that I'm finding it, it's really overwhelming me. I find writing it down and compartmentalizing it in black and white in front of me is so helpful. Not all writing and not all documenting of what you're going through has to have the end goal of being published or for anybody else to read. Absolutely. There's power, there's power in just writing your thoughts and just journaling.. And you, you don't have to look at it as like this big massive goal of like, I want to be, you know, a Harper Perennial author and, you know, Penguin Editions or whatever like that. That'll come. You just have to worry about getting the thoughts down first, sharing it with people you trust, and then being vulnerable enough to release it to the world if that's your end goal, which is not an easy task. Like Let me tell you, but, uh, it was, uh, it can be really meaningful when you start connecting with people who have written your or read your own words. I love that. Um, well, I've got one final question because I want to save just a little bit of time. If you hope, if you don't mind, I'm going to read at the end of today's show just a couple of excerpts from your book to give people a bit of an idea of what Manic is like to kind of whet people's appetite, if that's okay with you. Sounds perfect. Brilliant. So my final question is, um, what is your favorite book? Do you read actually? And if you do, what is your favorite book? The question was, do I read and what's my favorite book? Yeah. I read, uh, quite a bit, and I actually took a speed reading course in the spring by Jim Quick. His book's called Limitless, and I've, you know, I try to crush as many books as I can while in school. It's hard, but, um, my favorite books are— surprise— by Anthony Robbins. It's, uh, Tony Robbins's books on his, his manual of Awaken the Giant Within absolutely changed my life. I was 16 and quite budding in my thoughts and everything and he just totally changed the trajectory of my life with his brilliant chapters on goal setting, transformational vocabulary, and relationship building. So I would say any kind of personal development books. I'm really into self-help or whatever you want to call it, and I, I just, I eat that stuff up. I, I currently just started Will Smith's new book called Will. Oh, I've not read that yet. I really want to give that one a go. Yeah, it starts off really good. He talks about laying bricks and how every day you just got to lay another brick. And it's a, it's a good opening. And the audiobook's actually very brilliant because he reads it himself. So I, I love reading, and, uh, any kind of books that can help me become better, I, I adore. I also love novels too, to just take a break and just absorb a great story. But memoirs, personal development books, that, that's kind of my taste for sure. Oh, that's fantastic about Will Smith as well, because I hadn't, I hadn't spotted that yet. But I do need to download my next book on Audible, and because it's actually read by himself— I remember when I read Barack Obama's book, and literally he could have spent 20 hours just reciting a shopping list. He is just enthralling to listen to. So absolutely, and Will Smith is the same. Yeah, you'll like it for sure. Oh great, I'm going to go and download that now. Well, thank you so much, Jason. I've loved chatting to you, and I think everybody that's listening will definitely go out and buy the book. They must appreciate that it's— it was such, well, I guess a love letter of sorts to your illness, but just how delightful that you've gone out of your way to make sure that you can help other people. I've read the book, I thought it was fantastic, and as I said, a bit of an emotional roller coaster, but Yeah, just absolutely wish you the best of luck with the book, but I think it's doing well anyway, isn't it? It is. Manic Man sales are good, and I hope your listeners go out and get a copy of Manic Man. And if they want to connect with me at any level, I've got Twitter @j_wegs, W-E-G-S, or Instagram with the same handle. And I'd love to hear people's thoughts or their reviews on Amazon or Goodreads. And yeah, I just love to connect with people and share my story to as many people as I can. And I think that's great. I do also have a review going up on hazelbutterfield.com, and the little picture of your book, if people click on it, it'll take them straight through to Amazon. So it makes it so much easier for them as well. Amazing. I appreciate that, Hazel. I appreciate, uh, you taking the time to have me on your show today. You're very welcome. Thank you for, uh, for sitting there in your school private room while you chatted to us here at Women's and Men's Radio Station. Jason, I wish you all the best of luck with Manic Man, and thanks again for chatting to us at Women's and Men's Radio Station. You're very welcome. Take care. Thank you. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and you've been listening to Get Booked, and today's guest has been Jason Wegner, the author of Manic man, and now, as promised, I'm going to be reading a couple of sections from his book just to whet your appetite. Admitted to a psych ward for 57 days. The next morning, I was wheeled into the acute psychiatry ward of the hospital where I was diagnosed with a severe mental illness, bipolar 1 disorder. And subsequently institutionalized for 57 days. Bipolar I disorder is a mental illness that causes unusual shifts in mood, energy, activity levels, concentration, and the ability to carry out day-to-day tasks. These moods range from extremely elevated and up, known as manic episodes, to very sad and down, known as depressive episodes. Specifically, there are two major types of bipolar disorder: Bipolar I and Bipolar II. Bipolar I is defined as having a severe manic episode with symptoms that include rapid thinking, pressured speech, insomnia, increased energy, grandiose ideas, excessive spending, and substance abuse. Bipolar II is not typically treated with hospitalization, while Bipolar I usually requires hospitalization. Writing this book was part of my treatment. Diving deep into the story of how I ended up in a hospital and confronting my actions and behaviors during my manic episode has allowed me to come to terms with a severe mental illness. Such extreme exposure therapy has resulted in me experiencing post-traumatic growth and having a better life than before my diagnosis. Number 2: meeting my psychologist, Dr. Kerry Burness. We had to wait a few minutes for Dr. Burness. I had decided that I would secretly record the session so I could use it against the psychologist. If he tried to take me away to the hospital, it would be proof of my sanity. I sneakily hid my phone under the table and hit record. In the recording, you can hear me laughing before Dr. Bénès arrived. I believed I was laughing in disbelief that I was in a shrink's office. Dr. Bénès welcomed us, and I introduced myself. I'm Jason. I've seen you around the school, the school of cool. In addition to his private practice, Dr. Bounnas is a professor at my university. To start, he asked for our basic family information and history. After that, he asked me a simple question to which I gave a very long answer. He asked, what are you doing right now, Jason? I said, "I am living. I just got back from Tanzania. I'm going to work for Uber and skip the dishes, and I started my writing career yesterday. I started writing a book. Multiple projects on the go. Moved out recently too. Loving it. I like being weird. Stream of consciousness writing is my speciality." Dr. Banesh just nodded and said, "Hmm." while I continued to ramble on. I went to Hogwarts this summer. That's what Tanzania was like. I've been testing people all week, and I've been purposefully confusing to see if people will pass my test and ask me if I'm okay, and I tell them I'm great. See? I don't need to listen to the haters, and I've got a lot of haters. I then told him about my sunglasses experiment at Townfest. Jumping topics right away. I told him I dropped all my classes and combed through all the courses the university offered, wrote down what I was interested in. Next I said, "We're all kids and I'm ready to scream my kid out of me. Maybe summer camp should be longer than 16 days." To this, Dr. Bowness finally said, 'I'm not following,' I explained to him. '16 days was how long Tanzania was.' This got me on the topic of Tanzania, and I rambled on about that for a while. I told him about my business partner Quinn and about all the emails to important people I sent. I told him I understand the brain a lot. I got emotional talking about being friends with people who don't have friends, The ups and downs of the conversation was bipolar disorder on full display. Jason was diagnosed with bipolar 1 disorder in late August of 2017. After a year and a half of recovering from his manic episode, he began writing his memoir about the experience, which is called Manic Man: How to Live Successfully with a Severe Mental Illness. Jason also launched his speaking career in 2019 and has been a keynote speaker on 5 separate occasions, one of which was to a crowd of 250 people. This really is a raw and honest account of Jason's life before and during his diagnosis of bipolar 1 disorder in 2017, and with help from Dr. Bénès, how he lifted himself from severe depression and is now living successfully with a severe mental illness. Manic Man describes how Dr. Bénès developed the Octagon of Life focusing Jason's recovery on 8 areas. Following the plan, Jason's depression ameliorated and he experienced post-traumatic growth that has made him, in his own words, a more fulfilled person than before the diagnosis. This is an account of hope and inspiration about a mental illness that to this day affects so many, yet is still wildly misunderstood. And rarely talked about in the same level of openness as depression or anxiety. I'm a firm believer that the more we understand about each other, the happier we all can be, and we can express genuine kindness through understanding. I urge you to go and buy Manic Man and have a read yourself, even just to find out a little bit more about Jason's journey, and again about bipolar disorder. Or maybe you know somebody that you think is possibly struggling. This is what good books are all about. And thank you so much for listening to today's Get Booked. And if you want to catch up on any previous shows, you can do at womensradiostation.com/shows/get-booked. Booked. I do also have numerous book reviews on my website at hazelbutterfield.com where you can also listen to past shows. Please do get in touch with me at hazel@womensradiostation.com if you have a book that you wish to discuss, or maybe you would like to review some of your own books, and you can get in touch or send me through a recording of your review and we'll get it played out on Get Booked. Thank you for listening, and make sure you listen every weekday at 5 PM on Women's Radio Station and 4 PM every Tuesday at Men's Radio Station.