Get Booked – Pauline Vaughan & Maggie Aspinall, Silver Ladies In Lockdown 110722

Hello, I'm Hazel Butterfield and this is Get Booked for women's and men's radio station. Here on Get Booked, we absolutely love talking to authors and book enthusiasts about new releases, going into detail about the topics covered, the inspiration, the mental health and well-being elements, opening discussions and offering support via the incredible writing community out there, and giving you the extra special insight into a different book and the author each week. Each week. Come and join us for the next hour, get involved, and if you want to catch up on previous shows, you can at womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. Or you can pop on to hazelbutterfield.com to find out a little bit more about me and how you can get in touch and all my latest book reviews. Right, on today's show we're going to be talking about Silver Ladies in Lockdown, a collection of Stories by Women, produced in aid of the Alzheimer's Society. Now this book epitomises what Get Booked is all about, the power of reading and learning about each other's lives combined with the cathartic nature of writing and exploring our emotions and experiences, putting pen to paper and ordering our thoughts, honouring those we are proud of or miss, explaining alternative viewpoints and a reminder of how everyone experienced lockdown differently and how it wasn't all bad for some and why. How to some of us what was a horrific and unbelievable time in history seems to also have passed in a blur. I devoured each story which serve as interesting honest, unique, and sometimes heartbreaking reminders of the plethora of experiences that COVID caused. And the Silver Ladies Chatter Group have shared with us the importance of commonality, how sharing and connecting with each other was a lifeline for so many of us. These stories vary from creative ways of getting through the lockdown to How for many of us, mental illness was no longer a taboo and such a far away issue. We all can be on the cusp of such a scary reality given certain circumstances. How humanity showed us its incredible side in looking out for each other. How technology, once an unfathomable annoyance, had to be embraced. And how it's opened so many doors to those who would have otherwise ignored it. The popularity of such groups as the Silver Ladies Chatter has got the men wanting to get involved too. First up to chat to us, we have the founder of the group, Pauline Vaughan. Hi, how are you? I'm brilliant, thank you. How are you? Not bad. It's a little bit warm, and I must say, I have a dog that's joined me in our remote studio, so if there is a little bit of snoring in the background, I do apologise, but such is working from home, isn't it? Oh, that's fantastic. At least you've got company. Oh, do you know what? She is the best company ever. As we kind of came out of lockdown and we're all kind of saying, hey, let's go and hang out with other people, I was like, yeah, can I still hang out with my dog? She's really cool and she doesn't talk back to me. Well, not much. She is a beagle, so she does talk back to me a little bit. So we, we've been absolutely devouring this book, as I said in the intro, as there's such a variety of different stories. And I love it that it's been produced in aid of the Alzheimer's Society. The Alzheimer's Society is a fabulous organisation who are there for everyone affected by dementia. By 2025, 1 million people will be living with the condition in the UK, and many millions more And carers, partners, families, and friends are affected. Lack of treatments and postcode lottery for care means that people with dementia and their families aren't getting the support they need and when they need it. Alzheimer's Society is trying to bridge that gap to ensure that people living with dementia today have the support they deserve, that their rights are protected and enhanced by campaigning, and that they can look to a brighter future thanks to the investment in research. So I absolutely love it that this book is written to help support the Alzheimer's Society. How did this come about, Pauline? Well, we nominated about 5 charities, and then all the women involved, not just in writing the book but in the group itself— so at that stage it was over 100— voted on which charity they would prefer the money to go to. And the Alzheimer's Society came out top easily. And that was really, as you were just saying, because all of us had been touched by it in some way, whether it was a spouse or a parent or an uncle, a brother-in-law, sister-in-law, whoever. Everybody knew someone who had been affected. It's interesting because my unbelievably fantastic and enigmatic grandma died towards the end of last year, and she had Alzheimer's and dementia. And it's so hard that, you know, it's a crippling and scary disease as it is anyway, but in lockdown it was so hard for people to actually visit people in care homes. At one point it couldn't happen at all, and I actually remember at the funeral my grandma's main carer, who was 22, and she actually sang at the funeral, and she turned around and said, you know, she was the main person— they get assigned the main person so that there's continuity of care— and she was saying, basically, in lockdown, my best mate was a 94-year-old lady, and she's cracking, and I'm really gonna miss that. And the carers are unbelievable, but we just need to make sure that there is enough support out there because not everybody is as lucky to have the care homes that can offer such fantastic care. But I did find it very heartwarming that she did have a 22-year-old best friend toward the end of her life. Yeah, as you know, in the book there is one of our ladies who was badly affected, not herself but her mother. She lost her mother, and previous to that there had been some dementia, Alzheimer's-type problems, and I think that was perhaps the most touching story in the book, in my experience. There's a lot of them there, it's difficult to decide which is the saddest, which is the best or happiest, but I did think that one came home very much about what the book is all about raising money for. Well, I mean, as I said, that quite a lot of us went through the lockdown in a blur, and I liked reading just some of the diary accounts of just what happened. There wasn't necessarily, you know, an earth-shattering story behind some of them. It was just a case of recounting what happened, and I found that quite helpful just to remind us of— some of us have kind of blocked it out a little bit. But I think my favourite one was from one of the ladies in the Silver Chatter group who was saying that actually COVID was the best for her because it actually meant that for once she was included because the provisions were put in place. And I just thought Yeah, it's so hard. So many people say that they were so isolated in COVID, but so many people were isolated beforehand, and if anything, you know, COVID helped them to be connected because people were connecting more online and making it easy. I know lots of charities who had to move their services online for their service users, and more people could attend because of this. And it's, you know, that's definitely a positive that you can take from COVID Definitely, and that is one of the reasons we still do the Silver Ladies Chatter Coffee Mornings every Tuesday at 10:30, because it brought together so many people who wouldn't have met otherwise. But it's also a great help for those that can't get out, that aren't physically able to go outside their own front door and join in activities. Whatever reason, just brings everyone together and on the same level. Yes, yes, and it's a big equalizer, I think that's what I'm trying to say, it equalizes. It really does, it really does, and I think that's what's fantastic about this book. I enjoy just reading all the different perspectives, and I think the more we understand about each other, and there's such a variety in there, it helps us to kind of appreciate what everybody's individual experience was, and to have a little bit more patience, and to think through what's going on. The more we understand each other, the better. I mean, but also I love the fact that it helps people, the whole cathartic nature of writing, and sharing, and helping people to understand that what they went through. I think the connectivity is, is so important, especially for, you know, I think the main issue with mental health issues in COVID was loneliness. Definitely, and isolation. Yes. I mean, when you start debating which came first, the loneliness or the isolation, or was it the other way around? It was such a chicken and egg situation. It really was. And I was reading your story as well. Do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about what you wrote about in the Silver Ladies in Lockdown book? Very briefly, I caught COVID in March 2020, right at the beginning. I caught it, started with it a few days before the lockdown, and I was still working at the time. I felt dreadful, but I couldn't make up my mind. Was it just seasonal? You know, the trees were out, it could have been tree pollen, that could be why I was coughing. I was debating about whether to go to work or not. But kept hearing. At that stage, the radio became my lifeline, and every radio station was on about stay at home if you feel the least bit ill. So I did. It developed into full-blown COVID. A few months earlier, I'd left my marriage of 40 years. I was on my own. I was in a place I really, really did not want to be and did not feel safe. The COVID took hold to such an extent that they did ask if I wanted to go to hospital, but again, the radio was telling me how bad the hospitals were and how it was a one-way trip, basically. So I refused. I eventually started to feel a wee bit better, but every time I did start to feel better, it got hold again. So I was stuck in a flat where I had very little furniture. In fact, the living room was bare except for a sofa, a recently purchased sofa. So most of my time was spent in bed, and anyway, I felt better when I was let down. Everything was such a struggle, and even when the 111 prescribed antibiotics because they thought I'd got an infection on my chest on top of everything else, 'How do I get them without going out?' I knew absolutely no one in the area. People offered to go and get them for me, but they were 50 miles away and I couldn't possibly trail them. The lifesaver for me as a non-churchgoer was the church that was local, who, when I rang the town hall up the following day about my prescription, they managed to send somebody from the church to go and get my prescription farmer, which by the way was only about 10 minutes' walk for a fit and able person. So again, it brings home to you how people go on that can't get out permanently. Well, I was hearing of people getting COVID who, you know, I've run triathlons with, and they were saying that they were struggling to just get to the end of their road. Exactly, it's everybody. Yeah, it wasn't that I was unfit to start with. The day before I started with the symptoms, I'd swum for an hour and a half continuous, 90 minutes. Swimming was my passion, I loved swimming. But COVID now has left me so that I haven't been to the swimming pool since, more or less, other than on holiday, brief holiday. But no way could I do an hour and a half swimming now. Well, it took your independence, and I think when your independence is taken away from you, that's quite damaging in itself. And if we're, if we're feeling down within ourselves, we're not in a position and don't have the strength to tackle issues like COVID. So it's, it's very much a culmination of different factors that, that can put us in a worse situation, isn't it? It is, and especially if your health's bad as well, you know, your physical health is bad, then of course you feel down, of course you feel miserable, and that over time does lead to some sort of depression, anxiety about what you— what's going to happen in the future, will you ever get rid of it. So yeah, I think they all interconnect. Definitely. And I must say though, You went through, from reading your story in the book, quite a horrific time, but what I love is that you turned a really rubbish time in your life into something positive where you not only brought people together, but you managed to publish a book and help a charity that meant a lot to you. So kudos! Yeah, I'm not sure I would have done if I'd have known what we were letting ourselves in for. Didn't think we'd end up doing all this work? No. But did I ever anticipate just how much work would be involved? No, of course I didn't. But it wasn't just me. We all came together. I mean, we had a fantastic lady, Sue Morgan, who popped up from nowhere while we were in the middle of this project, joined us online and said, oh, I've got editing experience, auditing experience, I'll help, I'll do all the editing. She was absolutely fantastic. I think we're talking— it's just one of those things that the people you need come into your life. Do you know what, that's so true, and I love it how sometimes these things can just be organic and less forced, and those are the ones we're most comfortable with. I love it that actually— I need to try and remember, is it yourself or is it somebody else that's actually going away for a weekend with one of the Silver Ladies chatter group before even meeting? Oh no, no, that was, um, that was my Spanish teacher. Right, right. On another forum altogether, I found this wonderful man from Yorkshire who's actually originally not from Yorkshire, from— can't remember where, sorry, but a Spanish-speaking country. And he was offering Spanish lessons, and I thought, there must be a catch here. But I emailed him, asked him how much, because at that stage I wasn't working or anything. And he said, oh no, I don't want payment, I just want something to do in this lockdown. Yeah, and of course we've got Silver Ladies, which were female, and I was still speaking to him with the Spanish lessons, and I said, "Oh, I'm going away next week. I'm going to York." He said, "I like York. I used to work in York." I thought, this man has been giving his time for ages now, an hour a week to help me, so without consulting anybody else, I just said, would you like to come with us? And wonderful as Eduardo is, I pointed out, they're all going to be women except for you. Oh, I don't know him. Yeah, I bet he doesn't mind. He is absolutely lovely, and he just fitted in with us all when he turned up. But it made us realize it wasn't just women that were longing for company of other people. And I do mean that totally as in just company, nothing else. And he came, he fitted in with the group, he gave us all a great laugh by falling over on the grass, which we built rib him about even now. And he's been on a number of other trips with us. And we just thought there's got to be more than Eduardo in this position. So we started a joint group, male and female, only restrictions being that you've got to be over 50 and live in the UK. And we have been absolutely amazed at how many people have joined. We now have well over 400 members, numbers rising every day. And Silver Friends really took off. I love that. Yeah, we need to look into how we do a book that includes the men. I don't know whether it'll be on the same topic as the Silver Ladies in Lockdown, but there are other topics we could cover. I think we'd like to give the men a voice as well. And that is something for the future. I like that, we can come up with part 2 and different volumes. Before you know it, you'll have published 20 books. I don't know about 20. Well, it's good to keep you busy, keep you out of trouble, eh, Pauline? Well, it doesn't just keep me out of trouble, it's kept a lot of other people out of trouble all along the way. It's not just the book. I mean, yesterday we had our first AGM of Silver Ladies online, and a lady from over in the Northeast came in a bit later than the rest, and we were looking for someone to take minutes. Poor thing, she walked straight into it. Oh, you'll be good. There you go. I like that. It was just like that. And talking about getting people involved, you managed to get Jackie Weaver to write the foreword, which I'm going to read out towards the end of the show for our listeners, if that's okay. Yeah, of course. Jackie Weaver is fantastic. She sort of epitomises everything that's great about women of a certain age, where We've got past bothering what people think, let's just get on with it, straightforward, to the point, no messing. I love that, I think it's brilliant. I think you couldn't have found somebody more fitting to write your foreword, so I love it that she's got involved as well. Gutsy, and just as you said, yes, she does epitomise the whole ethos of Silver Ladies in Lockdown. I just want to point out to our listeners as well that they can pop onto Facebook to check out the group, and it's called Silver Ladies Chatter, isn't it? It certainly is, but if they have any problems, they can also send an email to silverladiesbook@gmail.com, and that applies also if they want to purchase the book. Which you are, right? Because I was going to ask, how can people get hold of the book? If they just email us at silverladysbook@gmail.com, we will happily send them details about postage and how to forward the money to the bank account that we've opened specifically for this. Are you thinking about pushing it up on Amazon? At the moment, no, we want to keep the sales direct. I mean, that is something that we may do in the future. That would be good, especially for when you're releasing your 4th, 5th, and 6th volume of the book. Yeah, the problem is, to be honest, only yesterday did we get the bank account details through. It's not easy to open a bank account for something that is not a business. No. But we finally managed to do it, and that again was another lady, Sue Chadwick from Manchester, who built on her previous PA skills, so she felt competent in fighting her way through opening the bank account. No mean feat. And just a quick reminder to our listeners then, what was the email address? That they could contact to get hold of the book? SilverLadiesBook@gmail.com. Brilliant, thank you, Pauline. And also a couple of questions that I like to ask all my guests here on Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station, um, are for 3 top tips on well-being. What would be your 3 top tips? What, what gives you a little bit of a lift when you need it? My first one has got to be good food and drink, the best quality food and drink you can afford. And I really do believe that what you put into your stomach affects your brain. I found from experience sugar makes me feel really depressed. I love it. I love it. Me too. Sweet things, cakes, but it's totally not good for me. And alcohol, I try to steer away from that. As you may remember from the book, I did have a little bit of a bad episode with alcohol, which I'm glad to say is behind me. I'm certainly not anti-alcohol, but I think we need to limit it. And I now find I like things like kombucha. For a replacement, it gets that taste and dryness. So definitely food and drink as good as you can afford would be my number 1. Number 2, I would say fresh air. Getting out in the fresh air. Isn't this what we really missed when we were in lockdown? Certainly was for me, because even when you had that lovely spring weather in the first lockdown, I couldn't get out. It makes you feel down. We all know that. We all feel better when there's a bit of sunshine outside. But it isn't just the sun, I'm sure it's the pressure. And then my number 3, you touched on this right at the beginning of the interview without knowing, I'm sure. But if you can, get a pet. I haven't got one because I don't want to take on that responsibility at the moment. Um, but I do like to kidnap other people's, only with their permission, obviously. We must highlight, do get permission before stealing somebody else's dog. Except for Percy. Percy just wanders in and wanders out when and if he feels about like doing so. He's the Ninja Tom from the flat downstairs. And he now thinks he has a born right to just walk into the flat when the door's open, walk around, sit down if he likes, and somebody— I'll come along and make a fuss of him. But he does me as much good as I do him, I'm sure, probably more so. Not only that, like you said, they listen, don't they? Oh yes, completely. I mean, I did actually interview a couple of weeks a lady who wrote a book called Felix Unbound, and it was about, it's kind of fantasy, but it's where something happens, and all of a sudden her cat comes to life, and she's like having to deal with her cat as a human man, and all the secrets she's told him, and he's like, listen, I know what you're thinking, because you used to tell me what you were thinking all the time, and I, was reading the book going, "If only my dog could tell my secrets." Yeah, that's the thing, they don't though, do they? They don't because they can't, which is good. I've got my dog looking at me now going, "Yeah, just make sure you keep the treats coming, Mummy, thank you very much." And then you're best friends for life. Yeah, completely. I absolutely adore my dog. And also she's so much more easy to deal with than my two children who talk back to me continuously. Their levels of sarcasm, which I attribute to the fact that their mother is a northerner, is just, you know, my dog hasn't mastered sarcasm yet and I enjoy that, I'm quite happy with it. The problem with that, the cat doesn't demand anything, they don't say, "Oh yes, let's go shopping," or "I need this, I need that." I see, I thought cats were quite demanding, they're very much, "Oi, you, I need I need some food, preferably anchovies, such is the way of cats. Now we are shortly going to be chatting to your colleague Maggie Aspinall, but before that I would also like to know, this is one of my favourite questions for Get Booked to ask my guests, is about who their favourite person is in the public eye, because there's so many people out there who we look at on social media and just think, oh, you are infuriating. But there's some incredible people out there, aren't there? There is, but you've already mentioned the one that I would choose. That's got to be Jackie Weaver. Yeah, fantastic woman, knows her own mind, isn't frightened to speak up for herself and for others, and just simple, straightforward, to the point. Yeah, she's brilliant. I completely agree, and I think people should go and get the book just to be involved with what's something that Jackie Weaver has been involved with. If she thinks it's pretty good, then, then we're on board, aren't we? The fantastic thing with Jackie is the moment we asked her, we sent her an email, she was approachable, and within about half an hour she had come back to us and said Yeah, I'll do it. Brilliant, I absolutely love that. I think it's fantastic what you did, Pauline. You managed to turn something that was quite horrific, quite soul-destroying, and you turned it into something where everybody benefited, including myself, because I've really enjoyed reading these stories. And I think the more we understand about each other, the more— the nicer we can be, you know. It's We need to be able to find ways of how we can connect to anybody and everybody because we all do matter. And I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting to you. I'm going to introduce our next guest, Maggie, very shortly, but thank you so much for joining us here on Get Booked. Thank you very much for having me. I've enjoyed talking to you, and like I say, if anybody wants to, wants to buy the book, with the profits going to Alzheimer's please get in touch with silverladysbook@gmail.com. Brilliant, thank you so much, Pauline, and enjoy the rest of your day. Right, now next up, as promised, we have one of the contributors to the book, Maggie Aspinall. Hi Maggie, how are you? Hot! It is very hot out there, isn't it? It is really hot, yeah, but yeah, thank you very much for having me on. You are very welcome. Now I was just Just saying to Pauline, because my dog had decided that she wanted to come and join us, she likes to get involved with everything, and she was snoring away, which is no reflection on the interview, but she's decided to move to a different room now, so there is no snoring to be heard. That's good. Well, there's plenty of noises from my garden, but hopefully that, you know, it won't be overwhelmingly noisy. Yes, the joys of working from home. But to be honest, this is what the book is about. It's about people connecting over technology and finding different ways through, through the lockdown. Now, I've been chatting away to Pauline about her story in the book and a little bit about Jackie Weaver, and we've been saying how Jackie Weaver kind of epitomizes what Silver Ladies Chatter is all about. Yeah, absolutely. I love it that she did the foreword. I'm going to give it a little bit of a read later, just towards the end of the show. Now, I'd like to hear a little bit about why you got involved with Silver Ladies Chatter. Well, I've been thinking about that, you know, obviously coming on. I have to say I loved being involved in the writing. I love writing. I was a member of Restless first, and Silver Ladies sort of came out of that. Whilst I've written very positively in my chapter about my life during lockdown, there were times where I was pulling my hair out. It was probably one of those times that I went online and thought, "I've got to do something for me." I saw it, and I saw Silver Ladies, and I thought, "Oh, that looks very promising." You know, women— I'm very pro-women and everything that goes with that. I thought, "Oh, let's see what they're talking about and what they're up to. It might be worth having a look." because it was so restricted, obviously we couldn't get out as much, and I do like meeting up with people and seeing friends, and all that was out of the question. So I thought, oh, let me have a look and see if I can do something new. And because it involved something creative as well, as soon as I saw the sort of writing element, I thought, oh my, you know, ears were, you know, pricking up, and I thought, oh, I'd love to be involved. And I got involved, and when I started talking to Pauline, she was really, really such a inviting host, and so easygoing, and so welcoming. And I thought, "Oh yeah, I'll get involved with this, you know, it's good." And I wanted to write about how I felt during lockdown because it was something everybody was going through, but everybody was going through in such different ways. And I thought, you know, share it. I think what is good about Silver Ladies' Chatter, and the fact that what everybody's been talking about and writing about has been put into a book is it encourages people to share their own stories. And it's very cathartic writing, even if you're just writing for yourself. It helps to order our thoughts. But also there's something about, you know, writing about your own experiences where it might encourage other people to do so as well. And sharing is important. I mean, this is what everyone's been struggling with, the lack of ability to share, they've been isolated, they've been lonely, and the fact that you've all come together with all these different stories and you've turned it into something where not only can you help other people understand what's been going on for various different people, but to help support and raise money for the Alzheimer's Society. And I must say, your story is probably, it kind of exemplifies how different everyone everybody's experience was. You know, not everybody had all their family at home with them, and that offered its own challenges, but it was creativity as well. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to say, you know, it was 100% wonderful, although reading the chapter, people come away thinking, gosh, you know, are they real? But it really was very much like I've described. And funnily enough, before I wrote it, I was scrapping around trying to find anything that had been published about lockdown, you know, living through lockdown. I think some people have really fast-forwarded, you know, actually some really established authors, and I'd, you know, gone on Amazon and got to see what they had said, and it was not at all inspiring. It was quite dull. And then I read mine back. I mean, it really was as I've described. I'm not saying it's good, it's not. It was fantastic. There's some fantastic stories in there, and they're all real, and they're all very, very different, and some are terribly sad, obviously. But mine, it was quite upbeat because I, like most, like a lot of people, not most people, I've been shocked by how many people enjoyed lockdown, but I didn't like lockdown. And I honestly, truthfully felt, as I've described, I don't know how I would have done it without my children. My husband is very stoical, works through anything, literally. And just got on with it. And so he was very much out of the picture. Sorry, Nick. But the children, you know, were just great, and, and then, you know, they really kept me going and doing— you know, I really enjoyed the Silver Ladies because that, you know, is very important, as you yourself know, just to do things that got you through. I finally resolved to just sort of find things that you could make yourself be stimulated and to keep going. Because every day was a challenge. It really was, wasn't it? I mean, it could have— it was quite monotonous, but also when you had your family at home— I had my two children, and at the time they were 10 and 12, and I was reading about what you had to say in the Silver Ladies in Lockdown book, and we sometimes forget about what happened. It passed in a little bit of a blur, but it was the whole thing of having to feed them constantly. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. We couldn't pop out to Pizza Express or they weren't having at least a meal and 3 snacks at school. It was constant. I mean, especially with boys, I mean, sometimes like every half hour you just have to keep on feeding them, otherwise they thought they were going to waste away. Yeah, well, I mean, we had a lot of friction over food actually. I haven't mentioned in the chapter because I had one who had just come back from university, was really into saving and doing everything student-wise and careful, you know. Then I had others who were sort of doing the ordering and sort of saying, well, we'll order another 6 bottles of wine, why not, you know, get us through lockdown. And so there was a bit of fighting over that, but it was a lot of food, absolutely. And I've even said this to my neighbours, you know, we've all got a lot of bottles we were putting out in recycling during lockdown. It did help. To get away those long evenings. It really did, actually. I lived in a place where it was quite— it's classed as a little bit of a community. They're a particular kind of housing estate, they're fantastic, and it was on the river in southwest London. And so everybody's kind of interconnected, everybody's doors kind of open up together. And do you know when like kids get really excited when they hear the ice cream van and everybody he rushes out the door. It was pretty much the same situation with the majestic wine van. I can absolutely relate to that. It got to a stage where I'll be like, "Oh look, look kids, Mummy's wine's arrived!" And the next-door neighbour will be like, "I think that's mine." And the guy would go, "Hazel, sorry, you're next, this is delivering to number 59, 58." Actually, that's another thing, I don't know how many people have mentioned, but delivery people were amazing. Amazing. When they came to the door, it's like heaven, whatever it was, you know, whatever it was, you just like wanted to hug them. Thank you. Yeah, contact, but although you couldn't touch them obviously, but it was— I really take my hat off to all the people. Well, yeah, there's a lot being said, I know, a lot of thank yous, but I think the NHS got so much praise, quite rightly, and that was another thing I didn't mention, which I'm sure you did as well. We went absolutely crazy on Thursday nights. It was a bit over the top actually, bibbing the horns and clanging saucepans. Yeah, get your pans out, get your wooden spoons out. Yeah, our whole road came alive. I haven't seen anybody since, you know, since lockdown. Where is everybody? Yeah, everybody seemed to kind of come together and get to know each other and then bang, we're out again. Yeah, but I think, you know, deliveries really just come into their own and it was amazing. I really did take my hat off to all those people who delivered They're brilliant, brilliant people. I think that was touched on quite a bit in the Silver Ladies in Lockdown book as well. There was people praising just people who were very able-bodied and had nothing to do, and so they were going out and making sure that they were sourcing things for people who weren't as able to go out there. There's some fantastic praise in the book for people that just didn't get enough recognition. Recognition, the parish councils and everything. Yeah, well, I mean, I have again pushed in the book how brilliant young people are. I don't think they got enough. I saw a lot of young people getting involved and, you know, driving around to people, taking stuff people couldn't get out, dropping off food at food banks, and a lot of unseen stuff, you know, with young people. My daughter, I put it in the chapter, was furloughed and I hope you won't mind me singing her praises, but she actually ended up getting a certificate from the Mayor of Merton for all the work she did. Although she was furloughed, she had to do something, and she did sort of, you know, all the sort of technical stuff on spreadsheets of care homes and what they needed and all that sort of thing, and she did a brilliant job. And, you know, she didn't actually tell anybody. I did, because you're proud of her. It's up to the parents to do all the praising, is it? Let's face it, most of our children But yeah, they, you know, young people I think were very, very good in lockdown as well. I think they kept a lot of, you know, older neighbours, people who were lonely, really kept them going, got into the community and got into the spirit and helped a lot. And, you know, in turn it kept them busy, obviously. And I think that's good. There's definitely a lot to be said for altruism, going out and helping people, and it's great for our mental health. Mental well-being as well. I know people who were furloughed and they said, well, you know, I will be safe, but, you know, I'm fit and healthy and I'm perfectly capable to go out and deliver things to people. And so, so they did. They were getting furloughed, they were still getting 80% of their pay, so, you know, they had the time on their hands to go out and help. I know one person whose wife was a nurse and she was ridiculously busy and he was a photographer, and he said, well, work's completely dried up, you can't go on shoots, so I've volunteered to be a porter at my wife's hospital, so then I get to see her and help. Yeah, well, I think, I mean, again, going back, referring back to my chapter, it looks in the book like, well, I don't understand it, there's all deliveries, but we didn't go to the shops at all because I have an autoimmune, and my daughter does, and quite serious, and so we just literally didn't go to the shops, so we had all deliveries. But we still were able to help others because we could get in a car and just put it on their doorstep. So that's what we did. So we managed to get some delivery slots and then help others, which is great. It made you feel good and made you feel like you're helping. And certainly for, you know, like my son and my daughters, they could get in the car and just do it, or walk up and down the road. You didn't have to have any contact with people. Yeah, just live there. And so that was another way of helping. I think that was really strange, not being able to go into any shop at all. It was so— because we were very, very fearful in, in the first, you know, March 2020. It was absolutely scary, wasn't it? We didn't know what was going on, or if we'd— and people did die, you know. So it was right to be scared. It was a very scary time for people because also a lot of people who were very independent suddenly had to get into the swing of of actually asking people to do things for them, which was quite hard and I guess quite demoralising to some people as well, accepting that they couldn't do things. And I actually remember, interestingly, the night before all the pubs were going to close, and obviously in true British form, everybody piled into the pubs before they lost their beloved hobby. And I was speaking to this lady at the bar and she was saying, "Oh, you're out, you're making sure you, you get to have a few drinks before it's just going to be done at home." And she said, "Well, I actually lost my husband 6 months ago, and the only way I actually get to speak to anybody without putting pressure on my, on my children, who are very busy with their own children, coming to a pub, it's not just about getting drunk and necessarily, it's about just feeling as if you're a part of something. And she said, I'm gonna miss this because I'll have to rely on my family who are already busy and stressed and homeschooling to pick up the slack. So it was, it was an interesting— well, it was such an isolating time for people. Mental health was through the roof, wasn't it? Because it was just, you know, I feel I was very privileged to have people in the house who were a group and a community, 6 of us, it was busy and someone was always there to help you through it. You know, I'd come downstairs in the morning, I didn't know how to get through another day, and I really did get down sometimes, like a lot of people. And there'd always be one of them saying, "Oh, come on, you can do it. What should we do? Let's do this." And because there were no sort of— well, there were office hours, but you could still do work around work times because there was more flexibility because there were hours in the day, let's face it. It. Yeah. So I think we just kept each other going. I feel really sorry for people who were either on their own or just even with two people. It must be so difficult just to, you know, talk to the same person and talk to the walls. Yeah. People did learn to be very creative and do different things, and I think that was— that did come out of lockdown, didn't it? We all became more had more resolve and pushed ourselves and challenged ourselves to do different things. Oh, the amount of books that have come out in lockdown, people who said, "Well, I've got a book in me and I'll wait until I get some time," and bang, lockdown happened and they went, "Right, there we go." And Pauline's idea of doing this was brilliant, and it's done and it's out and it's published and it's out there. And I don't think that would have necessarily happened because wouldn't have had the same time to do that. But yeah, I I really think it's been a great thing, the Silver Ladies, and it's ongoing. You know, we meet up now, as Pauline's probably told you, people from all different walks of life, you know, nationwide. There's the Silver Friends. It's just, it was a great thing to do. That's the sort of thing I thought, oh, I must do something like that, and I've never got around to doing it. So it's great that somebody did. I think it's fantastic that we've been able to share so many different elements of people's experiences in lockdown, and there really is quite a variety of different stories, whether they're, you know, a one-page poem, three-page stories, to Pauline's, which I think was about 20 pages. And it just helps us to understand that although in theory COVID is kind of coming to an end, or it's always going to be there, but it's not at the forefront of everything, supposedly. I think it helps people to understand that although it may be over, the effects are going to be long-lasting for some people, and just to help us get a little bit more about what goes on in other people's lives. Yeah, I think it's also important to document it, you know. When I look back at things during wartime, you know, I like to know how people lived, and I think in years to come people might pick up a story and just think, "Oh gosh, is that how it was? Wow, that was tough," or "Gosh, that's how they did it," or, you know, we learn, don't we, from what's been written before. And what's been told. And I think these are important stories, some of the very sad ones particularly, because that is actually how real it really was and very, very frightening. Well, I did— there's, um, because there's quite a lot of different stories in this book, it's one of those books where you can kind of pick it up and stop and start quite easily because there are many stories. I think that's a great way, especially for people who don't think they've got the time to just sit there for 2 or 3 hours and just work my way through a book. And I think it's— also, I must very quickly point out to everybody to pop onto Silver Ladies Chatter, the Facebook group, so you can— I wonder how many more people you're going to have on this, because I know that people do like to chat, and sometimes they're just worried about where they can find people to chat to. So hopefully the listeners can pop on there. But I just I remember reading one of these stories and I had to stop at the end because I think you'll probably know which one it was, and it just, it had quite an abrupt ending where it was just quite heartbreaking. You didn't realize where this was going to go, and it's just a reminder of just how earth-shattering it was for some people. Absolutely, yeah. Sorry, I keep saying absolutely. It's a good word. It is, absolutely. Yes, awful, terrible. Actually, I went to a concert last week, and it is because of someone who so sadly died in lockdown, in fact last round of COVID He didn't have vaccinations, and he'd applied for tickets to Elton John, and someone very kindly passed them on, and my husband and I ended up going with my sister my sister and her husband and had a wonderful time. But it was when I thought, actually thought it through, why we were there, it was horrendous. Yeah, yeah, so real. And when you read some of the stories in, in the book, it's, it's so sad. It's, it's— yeah, because we were okay, we got through it. And we— I mean, I did get COVID myself very badly in, in March 2020. It was awful, really, really ill. But I was lucky, you know. I mean, I find it quite interesting because I didn't get COVID till very much near the end. And so I pretty much went through 2 years of not getting it. I got it when it wasn't even popular anymore. And it completely knocked me out. I mean, I was like, I go to the gym 5 times a week and then I just didn't go for 4 months because I had no energy whatsoever. You know, and I was at the time, you know, late 30s, very fit and healthy, and I just kind of thought, whoa, and I'm vaccinated. Yes, yeah, so it really made you think, you know, had you not been vaccinated and had you been the first round, it could, you know, you could easily have ended up in hospital. Yeah, yeah, completely, uh, and it was kind of indiscriminate and who it kind of attacked. I do love that they, you know, I think it's good that there is such a variety in this book because it doesn't need to be all doom and gloom. There's some stories that kind of pointed out that COVID really worked out quite well for them in really quite contradictory ways, and it's just a fantastic selection of stories that just to kind of help people to understand, help people to connect. And isn't it great when something happens to you and you can turn it into something positive by sharing it with somebody else? And even if it just helps, you know, it's that thing, isn't it? If you write about something and it just helps one person, how fantastic is that? Well, I've just been reading about someone myself today, and, you know, she had something dreadful happen and turned it around into a positive. And that is— it sounds like cliché, but it's true, isn't it? And that's something as you just said. And yeah, lockdown was awful, but everything I've written in my chapter is 100%. It was absolutely like that. And that's how we got through as family, was by turning into something that we can do this. And I mean, really, having a house full of 20-somethings, um, who ordinarily, yeah, rock London sort of thing, you know, they're in every club and bar and God knows what, they're all, you know, been to university and student life and have so many friends and always busy and never around, and then suddenly in a house with their parents, you know, board games, sort of looks like the 1950s suddenly. I'll go out, I can't even go to get a drink at a local pub. At least two of them were forced to be here, they were not supposed to be. One was, you know, in between flats and happened to be here when we went into lockdown, my son was about to sign on a flat, and it's like, what? And I gave them bedrooms that they had when they were, you know, much younger. It was absolutely, it was very, very hard for them. And I think, you know, one of the things I've tried to get across in the chapter is young people, I don't think at any time, were given enough good press. Obviously it was terrible for the elderly, it was terrible for school children, it was terrible for all the students doing A-levels, that's the thing. I think the way students at university were treated was dreadful. This is a very personal opinion, I think they were, they had such a hard time, and a lot of people in their 20s, 30s, you know, it was a dreadful time for them. They couldn't do anything. I mean, literally nothing. They got robbed of kind of like a rite of passage, weren't they? And have lost, you know, a couple of years really, in so many ways. So I think I feel very privileged that I was with mine, and they really made my life, you know, great and got me through it. And my husband as well. Even if he was stoically sitting there just happily letting life pass him by. Well, you know, I have read around it quite a lot, and a lot of people people did suffer when they suddenly had, you know, their sort of partners in the house with them because it was just something that was alien. And I was like, what are you doing here? I can't do this 24 hours a day, go away. I was quite happy that I was single. Quite a few of my friends were going, oh no, you're single and you're going into lockdown. I'm like, it's great. Yeah, it's fantastic. If I hadn't have been single, I would have been by the end. Yeah. But it's, yeah, it's just, it's just, it was good, you know, from that point of view, but obviously dreadful in other ways. But you sound like you got through it with, you know, various things going on in your life. And I think everybody's got a story. Yeah. I mean, I think we do just kind of get on with things and I'm quite lucky in that, you know, my kids are quite studious anyway. We got on with certain bits, but because we weren't going out and spending money on this, that, and whatever, we kind of channeled the money into buying Lego sets that we couldn't normally afford. You know, these Lego sets are £200, but you know, 2 or 3 weeks— it didn't matter because you weren't getting out, so you just put the money in something else. And there was no prospect of getting out, was there? So I sort of thought, right, let's spend some money, let's, uh, let's buy, you know, a Swing Ball set for the garden, and let's, let's get some jigsaws. My 25-year-old, again, I, she'll probably listen to this, you know, we've got a lovely jigsaw She'd just sort of mentioned, "Oh, I quite like jigsaws," and she was in between jobs, and then she got a job, and she said, "What am I going to do in the evening?" She's one of these people who can't sit still, so I said, "Here's a jigsaw," and we'd find her at all hours trying to figure out the next piece. You know, she had it on the floor, and then everybody was down on the floor sort of trying to help, and we've now got it framed, and it'll always be that memory of lockdown jigsaw. You know, it's a real challenge. So I always end up with terrible back problems because I get so addicted, I'm like hours. Oh, her back was dreadful, that was nearly trouble. But yeah, we, like you, we spent money on trying to do, get more things to do, paints, whatever, but it got us through. Yeah, we all found different ways of getting through, and also although it was quite hard for some of us parents who had to homeschool our children, If you look at the bright side, we all know a little bit more about what's going on in our children's lives in relation to their schoolwork, and we kind of appreciate what the teachers are going through and how easy or not necessarily easy our children are to concentrate and listen to instruction. So we've all managed to gain so many different insights in so many different ways. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, as I said to you, my sister had 3 younger children and and she sort of set up a school room and she said, "I didn't sign up to be a teacher, this is hell." Yes, yes indeed. I mean, what we did do, we were just about to move house about 2 or 3 days before the lockdown kicked in and then we couldn't move for one reason or another, just because I couldn't have my kids moving in for 2 weeks, you know, we weren't gonna have internet and they're supposed to be homeschooling and the disruption and whatnot. So we delayed it and we had to delay it more because the lockdown was delayed even further. So we used that time to kind of, like, well, don't pack up all your books if you're not wanting them anymore. Why don't we put them together as different packs and put on Facebook and let people get hold of these books who can't necessarily afford them, they want something to do, and they kind of, instead of packing all the rubbish from their room, they actually had time to sort through it and get rid of it, and it was kind of cathartic in that respect. But, you know. Yeah, well, this is the time that we set up Vinted, you know, it's all over the television and everything now, but I think an awful lot of people decided to do things like Vinted and eBay and get rid of stuff and sort things because every cupboard in our house has gone through, I think, because it was another something to do. We're getting things done. And because we had lockers, we didn't have to touch anything. Yeah, no, there's been so many different creative ways of making sure that we can get through everything, and they've kind of stuck around as well. So for people who still don't want to necessarily have any contact with anybody, We're running out of time, and something that I do want to ask you, Maggie, is for somebody in the public eye that you admire, whether it's to do with COVID or whether it's just to do in general, just somebody who you just think, "Oh, you're a good egg, I like you." Well, do you know what, I've given it an awful lot of thought because you sort of mentioned to me. So many women out there, it goes without saying, and I could name so many people for mental health like Barony Gordon, etc. But actually, going to the Elton John concert, I think he's a phenomenal character, and I do really admire all he's done for charity. And it might be a bit of a strange one to pick, but I love music, and music really helps me a lot in lockdown. It helps my mental health. I love music, I love dancing, I love singing. I joined a pop choir in lockdown. I really, really think— and I was looking at him, and he's done so much, and he's been he's been knighted by the Queen twice, he's done so much for LGBT, he's done so much for AIDS Foundation, he's given so much of his wealth away, and I just think he's someone I really do admire in the public eye. I think it's a fantastic choice, and I think that's something that a lot of people miss, this live music, because it really does help people, you know, not just the whole kind of connecting to the music, but being around people as well. So yeah, no, that's He's a good egg. Yeah, I think people missed going to the cinema, and when I did go and see Rocketman, or I don't know if that was the title, with him, you know, it's the story of his life, and he did have a very, very hard life and he turned it around. Yeah. You know, he made the most of it and, you know, was very, very charitable and continues to be, so I do really admire him. Oh, I like that. What a great way to end the show. Thank you so much, Maggie, for chatting to us about Silver Ladies in lockdown. Collection of stories by women produced in aid of the Alzheimer's Society. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you for joining us on Get Booked, women's and men's radio station. Thank you very much for having me. Here is the foreword by Jackie Weaver: You don't have to be older and female to be invisible, but it helps. My experience with Hanford Parish Council seemed to resonate with many women who want to participate in things but sometimes find it a bit daunting. That's why I've been asked to to draft this forward and why I'm delighted to do so. Even before the onset of COVID many mature women were struggling with isolation and that sense of loss of self. Lockdown highlighted it, but it didn't cause it. Many of us lived in fear, fear of loss for the future, for our families, and for what this new world meant for us. Many lived in pain with hospital appointments cancelled, and many are still suffering the aftereffects of COVID And its repercussions. But COVID did bring with it a sense of coming together. We found a way of breaking back into the world. We got to grips with IT, we developed innovative ways of keeping our spirits up, and we looked out for our neighbours, and we allowed ourselves to reach out for help too. And it was not all bleak. We had time to make virtual connections with family and friends and to reflect on our lives up to that point, and it pulled me brought into sharp focus the importance of family to so many of us. Through organisations such as the Council for Voluntary Services and our parish and town councils, we saw communities really coming together for the greater good, and we've all benefited from that revitalised community spirit. And while we come together through Zoom, Facebook, or any other mechanism, the important thing is, is that we continue to be involved. And I believe that we Silver Ladies we still have a great deal to offer and want to have the chance to prove it. So what does the future hold? Who knows? What we do know is that we find strength and support through networks such as the Silver Ladies Chatter Facebook group. Together we can make a real difference in families, our communities, and the wider world. Invisible? Possibly. Ineffective? Never.