Health Hacktivators With Dr Alka Patel – Stacy Haynes On Bullying And Victimisation

You're listening to Health Hacktivators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Woman's Radio Station. Before we get into today's conversation, please do support today's show sponsor, Youth and Earth. Youth and Earth have a range of products that I love to use myself to supercharge my metabolism, to support my health, and to slow down cellular aging. So just be sure you click the link in the show notes for exclusive offers which Youth and Earth are so generously giving only for for listeners of this show. Welcome to Health Hacktivators with lifestyle medicine doctor, GP, and longevity expert Dr. Alok Patel. This show will help you to discover a hidden health hacking code that unlocks your phenomenal potential for an outstanding healthspan, lifespan, and wealthspan. The show features candid conversations with celebrities, influencers, and industry icons, real-life stories, and cutting-edge health hacktivating advice that other doctors might not tell you. Discover why now is the time to join the strategic self-care revolution and experience the profound effects this will have on your personal and professional success. Now, here is your host, Dr. Alka Patel. Hi, hey, and hello, Health Activators. Today I am talking to the amazingly talented Stacey Haynes. Now, Stacey may be behind the scenes, but she brings alive all the scenes that she is behind. Because Stacey is the creative director, the choreographer, and the performance coach behind so many West End shows and TV shows that I know you will be familiar with. Things like The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent tours, The Lion King, West Side Story. Stacey has worked with hundreds and hundreds of A-listers, and she's clocked up over 30 years in the entertainment industry. And right now she is the genius behind the scenes working with Mamma Mia! The Party and with Blue and with Take That. So the question is, how does she do it all? Which is why today we are talking about how she manages with her day-to-day working life in the West End, being a busy mum with a busy family life, and looking after her own mother with dementia. Now with over 700,000 people in the UK caring for someone with dementia, and this is a staggering statistic, one new person in the world developing dementia every 3 seconds, I know that this conversation will have a lot of resonance. And we also talk about how her teenage son was bullied at school, which then resulted in them taking him out of that establishment when COVID hit, and how he then spent several years being schooled at home. And then again, with their love and with family support, he managed to heal from the experience and find his confidence and his identity again. Before we get into today's show, please do support today's show partner, Youth and Earth. Youth and Earth have a range of products that I love to use myself to supercharge my metabolism, to support my health, and to slow down cellular aging. Just be sure you click the link in the show notes for exclusive offers which Youth and Earth are so generously giving for listeners of this show. Welcome, welcome, Stacey. I am super delighted to be here chatting with you today. I am overly excited, super excited as well to be chatting with you. It's fantastic. Oh, amazing. Now, where should we begin? So I think I've heard you describe your life as, and correct me if this is wrong, but I've heard you describe it as never a dull moment, right? It's very, very true. And the older I get, the more that is true. It is literally, because, you know, you're a mum, you're working, you have a house to run, you just— the balls are in the air and you just keep juggling them as quickly as you can and just hope that not one falls. Yeah, yeah. And that's so true. I think already people are going to be resonating with, with that juggle analogy because we, we use it so much. And I was actually speaking to a client just yesterday and she described her life as busy. Just, you know, I'm so busy, I don't have time. I don't even have time to think about drinking a glass of water. So I think that's where I wanted to start with you really, Stacey, because ah, me and you both. Yeah. It's the only way I can say, because if not, I can go all day without a glass of water. Yeah. All day. Yeah, totally. I'm totally, totally with you. I mean, this is going off piste actually, but I once had to raise a bet with a patient and, you know, I know betting and everything around that. But I had to raise a bet with a patient because he wasn't drinking enough water and he had kidney disease and really did need to drink. And I had to shake on him to say, you know, I'll drink if you drink. And that was the only way that I could do it. You have to do some kind of bargaining or making it easy and putting on the desk, don't you? But, but we're not talking about water. Well, we sort of are. But what I wanted to ask you was about time and all these demands on your time, because like you say, you're busy. You're doing Mamma Mia! and Take That! and Blue! and all sorts of things and so many demands on your time. So how do you— there's 1440 minutes. How do you prioritize your time? Um, I think it's scheduling because I am the queen of scheduling. So I think it is a case of absolutely scheduling what's the priority for the day, and very rarely that's me. Very rarely that's me. And, uh, so I have a 16-year-old son, so he's just gone back to school in September. He went to a form. Um, he was— we took him out of school for 3 years because he was so badly bullied and he— we couldn't cope. He couldn't cope, should I say. Um, so him going back into school, that re-entrance into things that he's never had, you know, friends, social media, all of those things. So I prioritize, I prioritize my day, I prioritize what he's got. So if I've got a rehearsal at 2, I know I've got to leave home at 1, and therefore I have from 7:30 to 1 to do X, Y, and Z. And lists, lots and lots and lots of lists. Right, yeah, I get it. So that, that definitely works for you, doesn't it? That sort of having the list, having the scheduling, knowing what's coming, coming first. Do you get to the point where you don't get to the end of your to-do list? Oh, all the time, all the time. And therefore it gets spun on to the next day. And if the next day is full because I'm in auditions or I'm in rehearsals, then I know that I have to prioritize that. And so my week, I go, right, so Thursday morning I've I've got the morning off, I'll get Miles to school, and then I'll do X, Y, and Z before I go to the next rehearsal or audition. Or, you know, and now my mother has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, so that's a whole nother world of your time, time constraints. Yeah, because that is the thing with scheduling, isn't it? Is it— it's under your control until it isn't under your control. And more often than not, it isn't. So you— but then you have to be able to— you have to react. You have to— you have to be able to go, okay, I didn't do this, but I must do that, so I've got to get that onto the right page, and I've got to be able to sort that out. That's a priority. If I don't sort that out, that cannot go on till tomorrow. So it's all about the prioritizing of what is essential for today. It's not a great— it's not a great, great way to live your life, I suppose, because there's very little downtime. Um, and I wouldn't— I, I absolutely wouldn't turn around and say this is the way to do it, because I think you people in general, everybody needs to be able to take time for them. Totally. And I don't enough. I know I don't. Enough. Um, but when I do, I try and do it as well as I possibly can. And that might be 4 days away, or, you know, when you're at home, you don't actually turn around and go, I'm gonna go upstairs, I'm gonna sit in my bedroom for an hour and a half and do nothing. Because the phone buzzes, the dogs bark, the child comes home, you haven't made dinner, you haven't gone to the shops, mum calls. It's, it's never-ending. So you have— it's almost like I have to remove myself from my world, basically, to get the break. And I don't think I'm the only one. I think— I know this is very, very common. I think it's very, very common. But, you know, it's life, and we— you know, I'm 59 years old, so you have to— you smile, you say, I'm still healthy, I'm still around, I'm still running around, I'm still able. So you get on with it. Yeah, yeah. And it's so understandable, isn't there, when there are so many, as you've described, competing demands on your time that it doesn't feel like time. You're caring for mom, you're looking after your son, you've got, uh, organizations that you're responsible for. But I think you've touched on something really important, is that what gives— and what gives when you don't prioritize self-care? Because you feel healthy right now. Yeah, absolutely. People around you need you to be in that prime position of peak health in order to do everything that you do. But what gives? Well, I think a lot of things give, actually, to be honest with you. And I think the, the thing that is the most concerning with a 16-year-old kid is, am I looking after me enough? Yes, because with a 16-year-old kid, I don't— I, I want to be around in 20 years' time when he's 36, and that will make me nearly 80. And people are living longer. My mother's 90, you know, 90 years old. Um, yes, she has dementia, but Mostly everything else is fine, um, but it's that awful, awful, awful, like gut-wrenching, soul-destroying balance of I want to be there for him, but I want to take a break, but then Mum's called because the carer hasn't done this, so you have to run there. And I don't— honestly, I think unless you— and this is not saying that, you know, people don't have other issues and problems that they have to deal with. But when you deal with somebody with Alzheimer's and dementia as a one-on-one thing, it— you can't describe it. You cannot. It is, it is the cruelest, cruelest. It's not like a broken leg or cancer where, you know, my sister died of cancer. It was horrendous, absolutely horrendous. But she had a disease that we looked at and we saw, and we took her for treatment, and that treatment was hopefully going to make her better. In the end, it didn't. But dementia has so many stages that unless you're living it, you— you— it, it's, it's the most cruel thing I've ever been through. And the cruelest thing is, again, my guilt when I walk out my mum's door and I am cross with her because she can't remember or she shouted at me, it's like— I can only say it's like dropping your kid off to nursery for the first day and they scream and they don't want to go, and you are devastated in the car, absolutely devastated. Oh my God, he's not gonna— he's like— and then the nursery calls you 10 minutes later and go, he's absolutely fine, he's running around, he's having a lovely time, but it's ruined your day. That 5 minutes of trying to get rid of— pushing your child over has ruined your day. Mum will call me, or I'll call her, an hour later, and she has no recollection of what she said, how she said it, but she still knows who I am, which is a bonus, and we have to keep remembering that. But it is tough. There's no two ways about it, it's tough. Yeah, yeah. And I've read some of your other interviews where you've been asked about what's made you sad, mad, and glad, and it's all of that, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. Into caring for that. And of course it triggers really strong emotions in you, that terrifying ability, the loss of ability to sort of think and that definition of who you are. And do you, in amongst all of that, think about your own risks? Oh, all the time. All the time. And I say to my husband all the time, we must never— I cannot put in a, you know, you joke about it, don't you? You go, I am not putting my son through this. And if this is hereditary or if this is something that, you know, because of my mom I'm more prone to it, whatever. I was like, while I can still write my name, say my name, still do a thing— and this is probably not something, the right thing to say, but I'm like, get me on that plane to Switzerland because I do not— I look at my mother and she's so, so, so sad. She's so sad. Because she's got enough there to know that what's not there. So she's not in la-la land where she's just having a lovely time. And, you know, okay, so she wouldn't remember me, I'd get over that. It would be, you know, okay, so, but I've still got my mom, I've still got someone I can go and chat to. I can't— she's not my mom anymore, she's a person that I go and care for. And when she's moaning and groaning and crying in the corner, I'm using distraction technique and saying, "Would you like a cup of tea?" And I come out and I feel horrendous, literally like my stomach has been pulled out of me, because it is the saddest, saddest thing. And anyone that's going through or has anything to deal with it, it is extraordinary that we just do not have anything in the world that can help these people. People with dementia. I find it extraordinary. With all the technology we have, everybody, all the geniuses we have in medicine, why is there nothing to fix this? Why is there nothing to make it better for them? Why is it not— there's nothing to make them pass over a little bit quicker so, so, so that they can go to that land where they don't remember, and that, that awful period of paranoia and aggression and upset and all of that can just be passed over really quickly, and then they become, you know, happy that they don't remember because they don't remember. Yeah, yeah. Gosh, it's so touching hearing you say this with, you know, just absolute in-the-moment honesty of exactly how it is for you right now. And it's exhausting, isn't it? And I think a lot of what you've described, some of it comes down to the question of why is there nothing that's being done. It's research, it's funding. And we know, as you say, people are living longer. I mean, on this show, we're all going to be living a 1 million hour life, so we're getting to our— to 116. But no one wants to get to 116, a million hours, when you haven't got that identity of who you are and you're not thinking the way that you— that you want to think. And so back to kind of what we're talking about right at the beginning is prioritizing your own health so that when you reach those years, those are your best years. It sort of starts— starts now. It does, but it's almost impossible. It's all— well, you're going to tell me it's not, but it is almost for me, and I'm sure thousands, millions of other people. It is almost impossible to prioritize yourself as long as you can get up in the morning and you can function and you can get what you need to get done that day, whether it be get— just getting to work, getting the kids to school, making sure they have their packed lunch, whatever it is, whether you're male, female are this, that, or are they— does not matter. If you can function and get through your day, that's all you need. And that's what's wrong as well. That's very wrong because all of a sudden that marker comes up, or you have some blood in your poo, or something awful happens where you go, ah, if only I— but you're aware of it. I'm aware of it, but I'm just like, if I keep trucking on, if I can just keep trucking on, I'll be fine. Yeah, yeah. But we have to be in a position where we don't say, "If only." I know, right? I do. I get it, I get it, I get it. But it's, it's, it's tough. It's really, really hard. It's really, really hard. And you become, you become very kind of, uh, stoic and very, um, detached. So you become detached about yourself, and you become more concerned about those around you so that you are a looker-after. And that's me to a point, whether I'm rehearsing, whether I'm doing a show, whatever I'm doing, I'm a looker-after. So I'll make sure that that cast member is okay. I'll make sure that when Blue go on stage, those 4 boys are literally lit to perfection, their choreography is great, so that those 15,000 people in the O2 have the best night. I'm on my knees and exhausted because I'm juggling 3 shows and my mum and my son and 3 dogs and all of those things. But it doesn't matter. Those boys, at that moment when they walked on stage, I stood there in the auditorium of the O2 Arena and I went, 'It's all right, Stace, you've done it. Yeah, good, good, good job. Amazing.' And I got up the next day. Yeah, yeah. And that dedication and that devotion is so laudable, and I love that you're doing that. Like, and I just want to ask you about women here, because women do this, don't they, a lot. You said, you know, I don't put myself first, I put other people first. This is a, this is a common theme. And when you look at carers as well, yes, I think the stats are saying that 70% of carers for people with dementia are women. Women are contributing to so many global hours of informal care. All this caring that you're doing because you're as a carer, you said, this is what I do as I care. I care for my family, I care for my friends, I care for my colleagues, I care professionally. This is what you're doing. But then again, the stats say only 52% of women who are carers say they look after themselves, which then means 48% don't. And these are quite stark statistics. It's, it's terrible statistics. They are, they're not okay. It is not okay. And I can sit here in front of you and go, "I know it's not okay," but when I come off this podcast, I already know that at 1:30, I have another meeting, and at 2:30, I'll be going to get my son, and between 1:30 and 2:30, I'm gonna try and whip round to Mum's and sort her out, and then make sure she's had lunch and her tablet, and then I'll get back, get Miles, come back, then I'll make some dinner, and if 6:30, I'll have a little glass of wine. Yeah. How do you feel saying all this, Stacey? Because this is again back to the beginning, right? To do, to do, to do, to do, to do. I want to ask you about to be. How are you being when you're doing all of this? That's an— oh, we don't think about it. If you don't think about it, then you don't— if you— I think if you— that's a tough question because if you think about it, then you have to— then you have to acknowledge. Yeah. But there's no time for that. And it's very easy to say, well, make time. But if I'm— if you make time, and again, I'm gonna say I am not the only person this is not a woe is me, pity me, oh poor old Stacey, because Stacey's fine. She's getting on with it. She's busy. She's got great jobs. She's got a fantastic family. Um, she loves her mum. She loves her family. She's got a big family. It— I'm fine. But if you stop and you go, let me just think about that question you just asked, and when is it being, then there's that awful feeling inside that But what if I do that and I drop the— I drop a ball? What if, what if I drop a ball and that ball is an important ball? And what happens then? Never forgive myself. So just keep plugging through. Yeah, yeah, I can understand that. I can totally, totally understand why, because that's what we also do for a lot of things, is we don't, we don't take the pause because it's terrifying. We don't spend times with ourselves in solitude, because then you've got to be with your own thoughts, and we don't want to. No, we don't want to. And it's terrible. You're right, the word is terrifying. Because, okay, so on Saturday I'm going to take my son for the half term, and we're going to go away for 4 days, just me and my son. And at 16, I'm delighted, literally delighted, that he still wants to come away with his mum. Absolutely delighted. Good job. Yes, yeah, I was like, come on, I did that. But the organization between now and me getting on the plane on Saturday night with mum, dogs, husband, husband, um, house, everything else— that organization, plus the fact I'm still casting Greatest Days and I have a show Mamma Mia! The Party Still Running, and I'm talking to LA about another idea. See, that's my problem, I can't stop. Um, I've got another idea, and then I'm talking to somebody else about a TV show that I'm thinking of. All of those things have to be done by Saturday before I get in the car at 4 o'clock to drive to Gatwick Airport. And then someone said to me— people say to me, your social media account is not— you don't post, you don't do anything on your social media, Stacey. Why don't you do it? It's like, because I don't have the time. Love it. Oh, I love it, I love it. I mean, and they do say this, and you'll have heard this lots of times, won't you? If you want something done ask a busy person. Yeah, right. And, and I just wanted to switch kind of topic a little bit here because you mentioned your son, um, a little bit here. So I think despite being busy as you've described, you appointed, uh, yourself a new and I guess unexpected role as Chief Educator. So this is the time when you said your son was being bullied at school and you took him out of the establishment and you homeschooled him instead, and you took on whole new role. Okay, I didn't. I got tutors in. Go on. Yeah, I absolutely got tutors in. I would not have known one end of a maths book to another. I mean, I looked at it and I was like, oh, this is way beyond what I did 40 years ago. So we got tutors in, and that was another upsetting period of time. You know, he is small, um, I'm small, his hus— my husband's not massive, and he's a small— I don't know if you're allowed to say this anymore— mixed race or dual heritage or what it, you know, child. And he was in a very nice private school, and the hand just did not fit the glove. And when it came down to, um, the N-word being used, and I went to the school and asked them that this needs to be zero tolerance. Yeah, across the board. And they said we would, but I was like, we're done, we're done. So I took him out because there's all of that on top of it, you know. He is dual heritage. He has— we are in a predominantly, um, white middle-class area, you know, that's where we live. Um, so there's all of that that needs to be put on top of his education and him just being a nice kid. And a kid that can— yeah, he's bright, but that— if he's bright and that doesn't— and he's not a nice person, I'll take the nice person over being bright any day of the week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a whole adult. He's becoming a whole person. He could sit and chat with you for an hour about all sorts of things, and that's what I'm proud of. Did he get a 9 in his GCSE English A-level? Yeah, he did, but who cares? Means nothing, absolutely nothing. Well, in my world it doesn't. Yeah, but 3 years of homeschooling, that was tough because that was leaving him at home, okay? And then we had COVID, so it all went online, and it's a 15, 14, 15, 16-year-old that is being said, right, don't forget to log in. I'm leaving at 10, I'll be back at 7. Yeah. Can you remember to feed the dogs, Miles? Can you? And the guilt over that. My husband leaves at half past 5 in the morning, he comes home at half past 8 at night. It's not ideal. No. Tough. So you can't think about me. I can't think about me because if I'm home and Miles is home then no, I'm not going to sit down and go upstairs and sit down for an hour just to kind of just like, oh my God, what day? Because I have a child who hasn't seen me all day and has fended in for himself. And I know there's loads of children that do it, but for me, I'm 59 years old with a 16-year-old child. I had him at 42. I had him very, very late. We lost so many kids. I lost 4. So I need to go. He is mine. He is everything I wanted, and I'll do whatever it takes until he's 40, if I'm still alive. Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about the bullying then, if we may. Yeah, he, um, again, as I said, he's little, um, it was a very privileged private school with lots of rugby. It was a boys' school, really, lots of rugby, lots of cricket. And I think the problem— not the problem, The thing is with Miles is he is very adept at anything he turns his hand to. So he was great at cricket, he was great at hockey. Give him a hockey stick, he was fantastic at it. Was he good at rugby? Yes, he was, because he was fast, nippy. Was he good at football? Excellent. Did he have any drive for any of these sports? Zero. Most excellent swimmer, literally could not care less. Loved it, enjoyed it, But he didn't have that, "I've got to get, I've got to win, I've got to win." He was like, "Let's just—" So he always wanted to go into the B team, not the A team, but they always put him in the A team. And it was like, give him a break, he's not one of those kids. And they didn't hear. And then there was a lot of, as I say, midget, N-word being thrown around. And one day, we lived around the corner from the school, I heard him coming home. He was year 8. And I could hear him crying from the roundabout, and he was just sobbing. And I could hear these two boys shouting after him, 'Midget n-word.' So I ran out and they ran off. I got him home and he was inconsolable, absolutely inconsolable. And he turned into a victim. That was the biggest problem. So anybody that came to the house, um, my brothers, cousins, friends— 'Hey, Miles, how are you?' 'Well, what happened at school today was and this person bumped into me today at school, and this— it was all negative, and it was all about him being a victim and how he could— anybody listen to me, listen to my— listen to what's happened to me. And I said to my husband, this is wrong. This is, this is where it's wrong, because he can't see him anymore. All he can see is that he's a victim. And for me, that was— with the school saying we would, but I was like, he's got to come out of this environment and he's got to spend a year at least discovering who he is. Yeah. And it's worked. It's great. It has worked. But it was 3 tough years. It was tough. Very, very tough. But again, I'm not saying, oh, woe is me. I'm not, you know, it's not— there's thousands, millions of people who are far worse off than me. Far, far worse off than me. And I know that, and we just keep going. You deal with it. But it sounds like what you did was, was several things. One, you noticed. Yes. And two, you made a decision based on what you saw. Yeah. And for a lot of people, that— they don't do that. They notice but then don't make the decision that follows. Yeah. And it's not easy. It's not easy to make that decision. Yeah. It's not easy. You know, we didn't, we didn't take it easily, and my husband and I didn't sit there and go, okay, that's it, we're ripping her out of school. It was a case of I, oh gosh, I think it was probably a case— no, it was 100% a case of this can't continue, so I need to remove him from this situation, and then I'll deal with the consequences afterwards. I didn't have a plan. No. Yeah. And I think that's the— a lot of people think, well, what's the plan going to be? My husband is very much like that. He's like, well, 'What are we going to do from here on in? What's the plan?' What's— it's like, we'll figure it out. We'll have to figure it out. That's what we do. That's— we're his parents. We will figure it out. But right now, that has to be removed. So what did you do in terms of that regaining identity, regaining confidence, building self-esteem? I mean, these are important years. I mean, they're in every year, you know. Identity, confidence, self-esteem, self-worth is so critical. What was, apart from the sort of extraction from the environment, what else was going on? What else did you really need to put in place? The biggest thing we put in place was just let him get it all out. He talked and he talked and he talked and he talked, and we went through the summer holidays. We didn't think about work, we didn't think about any education, nothing. It was just a summer of love, and it was just talk about it. No friends. And, and it, you know, he then started tutoring. And between 13 and 16, Miles didn't have any friends. And that was the— he— no, no kids came over for sleepovers, or he didn't meet somebody at the cafe and walk down the road with him or take him, go for a dog walk with him. He, he had literally no friends. And that is devastating as a parent, watching your child. And he was happy-ish. He's got his 3 dogs and he found a, a life within Star Wars. So he became everything about Star Wars. But I knew it wasn't healthy, and I knew he had to go back to school because he had to know what his phone was for, what's social media, where did— when do people text you, um, all of those things that he had to learn. Yeah, there's something about social stamina, isn't there, is building and creating that social stamina around, around yourself. And part of that does need exposure, and you need to be exposed to the good and the bad. You know, it is the good and the bad that will, that will see you through. And you have to, as, as you grow up, as you become an adult, you have to be able to decipher which is the good and the bad. Because if you don't, if you don't have that, you're in a hiding to nowhere. Yeah. What does he, what does he say to you now about those years? He, he tends to not talk about it that much anymore. He goes, oh, do you remember when I used to eat my lunch and it was just me and the crow mum at school and things like that? And we sort of joke about it. Um, I think he has parked it now. I think we discussed it for so long, and he was allowed to talk about it wherever, whenever, however it came up. It was never— I never kind of tried to drag it out of him. It was, to me, it was like, when you want to speak about it, I'll sit down and listen. And if that happened to be when I was working, you know, there are two calls I have when I work. And it's— if it says Mum, if it says Miles, I'm stopping. End of. That, that's it. And every job I do, everything I do, I'm like, if it says Mum or Miles, if I'm filming, if whatever it is, I stop. And I make that very clear at the beginning. And that's powerful, isn't it? I think being that outlet for just listening, because I think that's the biggest thing, is when those emotions, especially at that— those tender years, are suppressed, is when they actually in adulthood continue to grow. Whereas what you did was provide a space and provide an outlet for, for the expression. But I think more than that, where do you— I'd like to know where you feel the responsibility lies, because as you've said, bullying is rife. And whether it's discrimination against age, sex, gender, race, so many other characteristics, what do you think about the responsibility around this? Because the school sounds like they didn't want to take responsibility? I'm old school. It lies with the parents. I think that if you, you know, the kids go to school, they're away from you for 8 hours, and you can't be there. You can't be hovering over them. You're not a helicopter parent, all of those things. But I think that if you initially bring your children into this world with an acceptance of all from a very young age, then even outside influences should be able to be batted away and batted back because you are at home. The initial— the, the structure of the family unit is with acceptance of all. You don't have to like everybody Oh, you don't have to like everybody at all. You can not get on with people. You can tell people that they really go on your nerves. Of course they can. But if you accept everybody for who they are— and to me, that's where we are failing desperately as a society— is we are going too far on the, oh gosh, we have to accept everybody because everybody's a— but it's like, we're going so far with it, that we're actually just not looking at the fundamental, which is you don't have to bring it to the forefront, you just have to accept. You don't have to turn around and say every TV show needs to have now 3 Black people on it, or 2 Black people on it, and/or an Indian person, or an Asian person, or a mixed-race person, or a transgender. So that's my box ticked because I'm a chairman, or I'm an exec, or I'm whatever of a TV show, and I am generally— and this is not a nice to say, but I am a generally middle-aged to older age white male, and I'm sitting there and now it's all been brought to the forefront. I'm going to tick my boxes, which means I'm going to say I'm going to have one Black lady, I'm going to have an Asian man, I'm going to have— but then they are all the same. So as a Black female who is in this industry looking and putting the TV on, I'm like Amazing, great, well done, here's your little pat on the back. But you know what, there are more than 6 people in this profession that you could choose from, and actually you're doing every Black person, brown person, person of color a disservice because you're only choosing out of those 6 and you just dot them around from show to show. It doesn't matter if they're qualified for those shows or not, just dot them around. It is soul-destroying. Yeah, yeah. I am so, so glad that you're saying this from the position that you're saying it on, because I have to resonate. I have found myself shouting at the TV, also asking why, when sometimes it's so clear that what we see is not based on, on skill and the best person for the role or the, or the event or the, or the purpose that you're trying to achieve. And feels as though— and we do this in so many things, we go from one extreme to another. Yes. And why we can't sit in a center and float in what makes sense rather than what is lying at either end of something. It makes absolutely no sense. And I think, and I think you're right. You know, those words that you're using are so, so powerful to describe what sits behind some of that decision-making. It makes my blood boil. It literally, out of anything. It just makes me so, so angry. And this is nothing, nothing against the people who are talented and are right for certain jobs, but the rest of it is just across the board. And then I get told, ah, but Stacey, you see, if you built your social media more— no, but what? No, no, I get it, it's a different world, it's a different— we're on a different social media. But you're gonna tell me you won't give me a job because I don't have enough followers? Not like, not about what I've done, not about my CV, not about the fact that I am a Black woman, which would tick one of your boxes. Because I don't have enough followers on social media, you'll just go back to the same 2 or 3 or 4 and rotate them, whether it be whatever channel you'll just rotate them. And that to me has to change. It's not about me getting a job, it's about the fact that actually they think— they, they think— and the same with my son when he was going to school and the N-word— that they think they've got it under control and they think they're doing a really good job, and not. So it's about judgment, isn't it? It's about making, making judgments. But I guess there's, you know, there's something really tricky here because we are hardwired for this. And you go back to sort of, you know, neurology and brain neurology, we're hardwired to make those instant decisions. It is sort of, you know, it comes from our survival mechanisms in terms of staying safe, but it's moved so far from that physical staying safe from being caught by a lion to the kind of whole psychological safety, um, that we've gone to another extreme, haven't we? Like you described with social media, we're judging the wrong information. Absolutely. I could go buy a million followers tomorrow. I could buy them. I could go, right, here's my money, I'll buy them. Now my social media has a million followers. Is that— but, but am I right for that job? Probably not. I could start putting on social media about my mom. I could start going, pulling at the heartstrings and do— no. No, it's not that it's private, it's just the fact that why should you have to? Hmm, yeah, yeah. So back to responsibility and parents, does that still hold true from what you're describing? Yes, I think it does, I think it does. I think it's the responsibility and the acceptance. I think acceptance is such a big word that is not used enough in society. It's not a case of we're pushing it that way or pushing it that way, or as you say, the two ends of the extremes. It's acceptance. Accept people for who they are. Don't go, "Ah, I had somebody who was transgender who's a friend of mine," or, you know, "When I was at school, Stacy, you're not really Black, but you're not like a Black person. You're the only Black person in this school, but 'You're not really Black.' It wasn't great. Of course it wasn't great. And we've moved on from there. But have we really? Because we're still in the place where we'll, you know, the TV execs and the other thing, we are so far over to, 'I've got a Black friend, you know. Yeah, yeah, I understand Black people because I've got a Black friend.' The need to say that was what? Yeah, yeah, this show, we can't— it all, doesn't it? In itself, that in itself says it all, doesn't it? The fact that you needed to point that out. Casting a show, yeah, I want as many— as diversity as I can in our show, but I'm sitting on a Zoom call with a completely white panel, like 9, and they're telling me, Stacy, don't forget about diversity, and I'm like Really? Really? You're gonna tell me like, like I would forget? But I'm also not going to do tokenism because that's where we are at the moment, and that's the issue. Yeah. So how do we change that? You talked about acceptance, you talked about awareness. It's just It starts there, doesn't it? Of course it starts there. But I think it's more than that because it's what— it's almost what you've done. You've exemplified the next bit, which is taking the action. So all up for raising awareness. We have so many awareness days, don't we? But what comes from that is there has to be the action taking. Like you say, you know, are you talking to your son in a way that if he now overhears other people having a conversation which are racially slanted or sexually slanted, does he have the confidence and the conviction to go and say something about it? He might be aware of it. Will he? And will others? Well, will others? I don't know. I don't know. I would hope, but I, I absolutely could put my hand on my heart and say that my son would. And sometimes that might be to his detriment where he'll end up having an argument or something, but I think that hand on heart he would. Other people, I don't know because I'm not anybody else's mother. I just— I think they need to— that's where the acceptance comes. That's where the case of don't turn a blind eye, don't look away, don't— you know, I would love to sit down with schools, with TV executives, and I bet you walk into that room and I tell you there are no people of color at that level up there. And so you see, you know, and sit down with them and say, guys, the only way to do this is to start from the bottom up, is to wipe the slate clean, and don't just go, well, those 5, that, that's us, we've, we're done, we, we're in a really good place, we have done it. And also what we can do is we can pop in a transgender if you want as well, just to make it all feel better. Yeah, it's almost laughable as you're just saying it. There's something quite comical as well. Yeah, it is, it is. And, and I don't know how that changes I don't know how that changes, to be honest with you. I don't know how to, but I just know it has to change. It has to change because the, the social media, the TV, the everything, that is what is also, also educating the young people up. So when watching the TV programs that are, you know, I don't want to say any of their names, but the, the, the, the competitions and the, the ones that were, you couples are on an island and all of those things. And the ones that— the judging panel, and it's the same judging panel on BBC One as it is on ITV, as it is in Channel 5, as it is on Sky, as it's the same— they just move them from pillar to post. Those people that are watching it, those kids, those adults that are watching it, are sitting there going, oh, haven't they done well? Look, isn't it— it's like, like, it's like a little rainbow, isn't it? It's like they've got every, you know, they've got because, because she's on it again. Yeah, yeah. In anyone's consciousness. So it's bigger, isn't it? It's— yes, everything starts at home. That's the strongest sphere of influence. But the influences are huge now, from what's on your scroll, on your social feed, to what's on your TV. And it's subliminal messages as well. That are being noticed as well. So that social responsibility, back to sort of, you know, your son and the bullying, is that social responsibility, yes, came from the home, came from the school, came from what's on our TV, came from the media, came from a much bigger sphere as well, didn't it? Absolutely, 100%, 100%. And, you know, as parents, as conscientious people, I suppose, you don't have that much, um, uh, you don't have that much control over the outside world. We don't. We can only control what's happening in there. And I think that doubles back to, no, you don't take a break, you don't stop, you don't think about you, because your controlling is within this sphere. And if you drop that ball, there might be an outside influence, outside influence that comes in that you cannot control. Yeah. And then you have to spend more time batting that out and getting it and fixing your bubble, globe, sphere, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, totally. But it's not— not wanting to sort of detract from what you do achieve. So when you were appointed, for example, as to direct the production of Mamma Mia! The Party, I mean, it's ABBA. How did you feel? Did you— was there a part of you that was like, woohoo, and a part of you was going on what merit? I mean, what was it? Because you don't want to also deflate from what is an incredible, incredible achievements that you have. No, and I know, and at no, no point did I think on what merit. When I met Björn and I went in and I had my meeting with him, I came out and I was like, okay, we'll see. And he gave me the job. And he used to phone, he phones me, we email, you know, he is writing new lyrics for some of the songs and he's emailing them to me and saying, what do you think? Stacy. And I don't— yeah, I could have posted all about that and I could have told the world all about that, but it wasn't. It was a job. It was a job that I'm doing with somebody who is incredibly famous, incredibly talented. And also, they, they know I respect that. So I'm not going to get a selfie and I'm not going to put it on here and I'm not going to put it on there. And yes, we I'm forever grateful that he trusted me to do his show, but I am forever grateful for that. But I also know why he did it, because I'm damn good at my job. Yeah. Yes, in the stratosphere. I'm not on a TV program and, and all of those things. The bottom line is, is I'm really, really good at what I do. And there is not a lot of people like me. There's not a lot of people that can direct, choreograph, listen to the vocals, make sure that they— Black, white, or indifferent— there are not a lot of people like me who have worked constantly since they were 18. Yeah, and I love that about you, you know, the fact that you, you stand tall, you stand proud, you, you've got that ambition, you've got that gumption, and you know yourself, right? That go— your identity goes beyond what you see, it's what you see in action, which is, which is incredible. But I mean, we probably should try and wrap up because we can both keep chatting, can't we? I want to be able to sleep tonight, right? And I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit worried about you and not prioritizing yourself because everybody comes first and you're go, go, go, go, go. So I want you to tell me What do you do to take care of yourself? What is just one thing that you do to, for self-care? Tell me, Stacey, please, let me sleep tonight. Ah, okay, no, I'm going on holiday on Saturday, and that's 4 days of me and Miles, but it is 4 days away from, you know, getting up every morning and feeding the dogs and picking up the dog poo at 7 o'clock in the morning, and then, you know, It's 4 days away from that. Getting that done before you get him breakfast, before you get him out to school, all of those things normal. So it's 4— that's, that's, that, that's a massive boost. That's 4 days of a huge kind of little injection for Stacey. There is not one daily. I would lie, I'd be lying if I said there is one. There is not. But every now and then, these 4 days are going to be a big injection boost for me. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I'm so glad you've told me that because I think if you keep that at your forefront on those 4 days, that this is 4 days of self-care about you and about Mars, because self-care is also about connection and that's what you're, you know, creating and growing and cultivating even deeper than ever before is, is that and not what you're missing out on, what's waiting for you when you come back. This is This is that. And it's lovely that you're doing that because we are designed to oscillate. We're not designed to go, go, go, go, go, go, go. We are designed to have the kind of ebbs and flows. And if it's, you know, 4 days in every month or 4 days in every quarter or 1 hour in every day, whatever it is that you choose, really, really zone in on that. So I'm so glad that you've said that, but more so that you've recognized that that's what that is for. Right. Lovely. Amazing. Anything. Any final words that you'd love to share, Stacy? Um, no, it's been an absolute pleasure, and I know we've covered a lot of things and we've gone around a bit and around the houses and done everything, but I'm really— it's been a real pleasure, and thank you very much for having me on because it was, um, yeah, it's been, it's been emotional but fun. Yeah, I think. Yeah, thank you. And, you know, back at you, because I think we have covered a lot, but these have been all such important topics that don't get talked about enough. You having that perspective and that insight from living and breathing everything that you've been through and being able to share that in the way that you have is going to be such a powerful injection for people who are listening as well. So I'm so grateful that you've done that as well. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. We're going to take a short break now for some music, and we'll be back shortly with even more health hacktivations. Baby, it's been a long day, baby. Things ain't been going my way, and though I need you here to clear out my mind all the time, and baby The way you move me, it's crazy. It's like you see right through me and make it easier. You please me, I don't even have to try. Oh, because you are the best thing to possess. You are the best thing. You are the best thing ever happened to me, baby. Come a long way, baby. You know, I hope and I pray that you believe me when I say this love will never fade away. All because you are the best thing. You are the best thing. You are the best thing, best thing ever happened to me. Both of us have known love before. Come on, on promising like the spring to walk on out the door. Our hearts are strong Our hearts are kind. Let me tell you just exactly what is on my mind. You are the best thing. You're the best thing. You are the best thing. You're the best thing. You are the best thing. Ever happened to me. You are the best thing. You are the best thing. You are the best thing ever happened to me. I must speak! Sound and color with me for my mind, and it should show me where to go when I need to speak now. Fall down, fall down— Wow, what a conversation. Stacey really is an incredible warrior, isn't she? She knows her strengths, she knows what matters to her, and she has a very deep-rooted drive to care. That's what came across so deeply— her drive to care for her son, to care for her mum, to care for her A-list clients. Stacey cares. And you know what? I'm so relieved as well to hear right at the end of that conversation I'm so relieved to hear that she can also self-care too. Now, there were lots of emotive topics in that conversation, but one that really did come up today was about bullying. And Stacey touched on how her son had become the victim. Not just become the victim, but also how he developed the victim mindset. So on next week's episode, what I'll be doing is taking a deeper dive into bullying and more specifically on self-esteem and self-confidence which will then help you go from victim to victor. And in the meantime, of course, if you have been affected by anything that you've heard on this show, if you are affected by bullying, then I have added some links into the show notes for some support groups that I know you can reach out to and that you will find helpful, because as you heard Stacey say today, space to talk makes a difference. See you next week, and I wish you a health hacktivating day. Thank you for listening to Health Hacktivators. If you have enjoyed this episode, then please support the show by leaving us a 5-star review wherever you get your podcasts and by sharing this episode with a friend. Don't forget to click the link in the show notes right now to find out more details about what was covered in this episode and to connect with Dr. Alka Patel in order to take your strategic self-care to the next level. Please do support today's show partner, Youth and Earth. Youth and Earth have a range of products that I love to use myself to supercharge my metabolism, to support my health, and to slow down cellular aging. Just be sure you click the link in the show notes for exclusive offers which Youth and Earth are so generously giving for listeners of this show. Thank you for listening to Health Hacktivators with me, Dr. Alka Patel, on the Women's Radio Station. I'd love you to stay connected through the socials. You can find me @DrAlkaPatelUK. And to learn more about the Women's Radio Station, do give them a follow too on their socials @WomensRadioStn.