Hidden Gems – Clemence

Hello and welcome to Hidden Gems with Maya on Women's radio station. Coming to you from our studio in London, Hidden Gems is designed to inform and inspire our listeners by showcasing extraordinary women in the world of mining and in the jewellery and gemstone industry. Today on Hidden Gems, we are joined by Clemence de Vaux. Clemence is a gemologist and a gemstone and jewellery consultant. She now splits her time between Rome and here in London. We first met when she was a full time gemologist at William and Son on Bruton street in Mayfair. From the moment you see Clemence's Instagram, you'll immediately understand why I had to have her on the show today. Firstly, her handle is clemencelovesdiamonds. I mean, what's not to love? Secondly, every photo, video and Instagram story is filled with exquisite pieces curated beautifully. So, Clemence, let's start by learning about your background and how you ended up where you are today. Can you just describe for us what it is you do in your own words? Yeah. So I am a gemologist. I have worked for William and Son for the last seven years and I've just recently gone solo and started up my consulting company. So what I do is gem purchasing, product development, so anything from designing to manufacturing to anything that comes all the way to launching the product, I mean all the different steps and obviously what I sort of supply in my consulting company is all of that service but as well as strategy in sense of how a brand should be positioning themselves in the market, how the products should be positioned within the brand, what products would work, what products should be stopped, all of that is things that I can help with. And are you working with brands or individuals as well? Actually both. It turns out that at first I was obviously selling myself to brands, but it's now become a thing where I'm an independent and so I'm attractive on just even hearing about the industry and just for my expertise in general. So I'm also solicited by independents, I'm solicited by agencies, PR agencies, marketing agencies as well, just to give an insight, I guess in the industry and also very much focused on London because this is where I've done most of my career so far. So anyone that wants information around London or brands that want to go to London, etc. All of this is information that I turns out I have and I can help anyone with. Okay, perfect. So tell us what is a gemologist and as well as brands and individuals, who do you work with? So the gemologist is the expert of gemstones and diamonds. It's someone who's been trained in having that knowledge. Obviously, we don't know everything. We're not sort of, you know, God in terms of knowledge of it. But we have been taught everything we need to know from the scientific side all the way to the market side. And I trained with gia, so mostly I'm attracted by GIA for anything. I think they're. They've put the bar, They've set the bar for every other workshop, in my view, but they're very focused on diamonds. So, for example, if I had to work with colored stones certificates, I would probably work more with Gobelin. So that's how I would do this in the gemology side. But then in terms of purchasing the gems, I purchased from everyone, I purchase quality. And I guess this is the advantage of being a gemologist, is knowing what you're buying. So you don't need to sort of only go to the reliable source because you can trust if you know yourself, you can pretty much buy anywhere as long as you've got your loop and you can loop everything you're buying. What's a loop? A loupe is a little gemology tool. It's like an eyeglass, basically. Very small eyeglass that Normally is times 10 of the vision you have normally. And you can have loupes that go up to higher times, but this is the normal one we use in the gemology world. Okay. So it really allows you to really get into the detail of what the stones look like. Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say about our industry on the whole, from a gemstone and jewellery point of view? Are women welcome at all levels, from interns to C level, you know, the CFO, COOs and in leadership roles? Would you say it's quite accessible? I think I've been very lucky in my situation. I've started working with people that were very open to women. My company has a female CEO who's an inspiration, really, for the company. There's a lot of girls. It's mostly a masculine industry, we're not going to lie, I think. But it's a masculine industry that needs women because the end product, whatever it is, is mostly for women. There are obviously men's jewelry, but the main customer is still women. So it's a masculine industry, but it obviously allows for opinion of women. So in that sense, I think women are still very accepted and put in positions within companies that are higher than in other industries. And what's it like for you in particular, in your role first of all, historically, in what you were doing before and then now as a consultant, have you faced any challenges? I've faced obviously misogynistic comments before. I think everyone has in the industry and obviously outside of the industry, but I think this is obviously very much specific people that are mostly old generations, older generations. It's maybe not so much the case with the newer generations. We're probably a bit more accepting. Then again, this is my experience. I totally appreciate that this is not the case everywhere, but there are quite a few older gentlemen, even women, older women in the industry that are quite misogynistic and they still are set in this way, but it hasn't, even though I have encountered them even, you know, in my own experience, at every step of the way, they've not been completely damaging for potentials for my career. So it's not that bad, but that's me. So can you explain the current gemstone industry? You mentioned earlier a lot about London being a key hub for the industry. Can you tell us a little bit more about what happens here? Yeah, I think that the market right now is very slow for everybody everywhere. I think I'm hearing that the retail side of things is quite slow, which, as we know, if the end of the chain is slow, that means that it has repercussions all the way back from. Back from up from the chain. So that's really what we're getting. But otherwise, generally it's in a very small world, it's an international world. So London or anywhere really, you could have access to the same things. You just need to travel quite a bit or at least be in contact with everyone at every sort of time zone or etc. But otherwise it's. There's not a lot of people in the industry. So everybody knows each other, everybody bumps into each other easily in London or anywhere else really. Actually, a few weekends ago I was obviously home in Rome and the word has traveled in the industry that I live in Rome now and so I'm getting emails or whatsapps from suppliers or gem dealers around the world. If they're traveling to Rome on holiday, they let me know and we have a drink. It's a small world. So I think the industry like that, it doesn't change anything where you are. So it's not. It's obviously quicker in London, there's more business, but wherever you are, the business can be, can be positive. So you mentioned, So you mentioned traveling and sort of this very international vibe that we've got going on here in the jewellery Industry. And you're in Rome at the moment. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you're doing there and how you end up in Rome from London? Yeah, absolutely. Actually, it's very basic. My husband was transferred from his company, so he works for Van Cleef and Opels. He is now the director of the store in Rome. So obviously when he had this opportunity, it was difficult to say no. And he's been working for Van Cleef and Arpels for a long time and they really wanted him there. So we, you know, packed our bags and left for Rome, basically. But yeah, no, it's. It's an experience and we're not gonna be there forever. I think we're gonna be there for a couple years, but that's why. That's why we're there. And is your home abuzz with jewelry conversation 24 hours a day, seven days a week? Completely. We're very much addicts, my husband and I. I mean, he's actually the one who introduced me to the jewelry world at first. He was the one who, 10 years ago found me a little bit day job with a jewelry appraiser in Paris. And I was just there to photography. Photography. The jewelry that she had to sell in the next auction. He was doing that before me, but he couldn't do it anymore, so I jumped in and basically fell in love completely. So he was more of a passionate about watches, but obviously watches and jewelry is again, very close world. And working for Van Cleef and Arpels, he's got access to amazing craft, amazing pieces, amazing gemstones. So we're constantly talking about this all the time. Plus, everywhere we go, when we travel, we're always looking at jewelry around us, you know, looking for jewelry shops and our honeymoon was in Madagascar. Oh, wow. Very much for gemstones. We wanted to go and visit a mine. This is not something that you can do just easily, obviously. So we thought this is a good opportunity to try and see this. But obviously it's a passion that we have after work as well. Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand. Advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new, vibrant brand connecting women socially. Our club members enjoy great food, fun and inspiring speakers whilst making friends in a room of all generations. If you're a social butterfly in the community, this fast growing franchise could be for you. 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Well, unlike traditional law firms, we think outside the box. Our advice is accessible from anywhere, even your own home. Due to our online video conferencing A city law firm Our people set us apart. Contact us on 0207-426-0382 www.acitylawfirm.com hi, I'm Sarah Austin and I'm the founder of the really Helpful Club, an online and offline community that helps, supports and connects thousands of women in our personal and business lives. We are buzzing. Join us to share and discover your best ideas. Come to our events to meet other members and learn something new. Book now for our London workshop on 10 May helping you prepare for and manage the menopause. Membership is free. Join now by visiting reallyhelpfulclub.com welcome back to Hidden Gems with Maya on Women's Radio Station, the program where we showcase extraordinary women in the world of mining and in the gemstone and jewellery industry. So you mentioned this appraisal shop. Well you were in a role as an appraiser or taking the photographs for the appraiser and then you were at the gia. What happened in between that? So I actually so my studies were very much art history in Paris, then first year masters at the Sorbonne, then I got into LSE for my second year master. So I came to London and I did my GIA diploma at the same time. But when I was still in Paris, especially in my years of master's degree, I was bored because masters doesn't take you as much time. I mean you're obviously working on your thesis and that's basically it. You have a little bit of classes but not that much. Well, that's how it is in France anyway. So I had started my own company doing costume jewelry. Actually. Sorry, it starts before that. So straight after that little job I had with the appraiser, I decided this is the industry I wanted to be in. So straight after I applied for lots of internships and lots of job experiences in the industry and I was very lucky to get a job at Christie's in the jewelry department in Paris. So I did this for a whole year and then I went to my master's degree and that's when I started my own Costume Jewelry Co. Then I moved to London. I was obviously busy with my last years of master's degree and the gia. And following that, I got headhunted to work for William and Son. Wow. What an extraordinary journey. Well, I think. Speaking of journeys, what is the best and memorable treasure you discovered in all of your travels so far? So Madagascar has obviously been an incredible experience. I mean, we got to visit mines out there. I really wanted to go for a specific reason. Actually. There's one gemstone that I'm a big fan of is morganite. I just love the color that it has and very often people. What color is Morganite? Peachy pink and sometimes a hint of brown. But actually, the one that comes from Madagascar that we've seen coming out in the last couple of years is a lot more pink. Actually, it's got a bubblegum pink color. And it's just very unusual to see Morganite coming out in such a vibrant pink compared to the peach pink that you see normally. And when I started seeing Madagascar Morganite pink, I just fell in love completely. Actually, it's quite a rare thing because, I mean, Madagascar is a small island. You're not allowed to buy gemstones and leave the country with them in Madagascar. So when you see Madagascar Pink Morganite coming out, it's quite a rare thing. But this is why I wanted to go there and actually I found a gem there. I didn't purchase it. I did, but it's beautiful. So this is why. What have you done with it? Nothing yet. There's lots of design ideas that go with it. Right now. You need money for one to make them. Obviously, I could go completely crazy with it, or I could just be reasonable and make something I could wear every day. But obviously, Morganite being a bit fragile, it's not an everyday ring, but it would still be a nice cocktail ring. So nothing yet. And when you say fragile, what do you mean? Can you explain a little bit more about that? Absolutely. So Morganite is a part of the Beryl family, mineral family. The Beryl family is the one that has emerald and aquamarine. So you probably already know that emerald is a fragile gemstone. It's normally quite porous and can have cracks inside the structure of it. And often we call this the garden. In French, we say the jardin. So Morganite is the same material, just a different colour, basically. So it's a fragile stone. It means you can't really change the temperature that's close to it too much. So, for example, I mean, that might be an old saying, but we always say if you're wearing an emerald ring, applies for aquamarine and Morganite as well. Don't put your hands in the oven and straight after in the freezer. That's the type of thing that that sort of sensitive temperature change can crack the stone altogether, which is why it's, it's not ideal for an everyday ring. So we don't normally recommend emeralds for engagement ring. Same with aquamarine, same with Morganite. It's okay for, you know, once in a while to wear it. Maybe just if you have a dinner and you're not cooking yourself, for example. But not for every day. Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand. Advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new vibrant brand connecting women socially. Our club members enjoy great food, fun and inspiring speakers whilst making friends in a room of all generations. If you're a social butterfly in the community, this fast growing franchise could be for you. If you would like to know more about stepping into our pink shoes, then look at the business opportunity page on our website. Live laughloveloveladies.club also@womensradiostation.com at distinctively me we are passionate about making clothes that complement any body shape through our made to measure tailored pieces. Distinctively Me's smart and elegant clothes are made in our London studio from the highest quality fabrics and will create the perfect outfit for any woman. Our trousers, skirts and jackets are modern yet timeless and can be worn season after season. Visit us@distinctivelyme.com to be amazed at our service and prices. Distinctively Me Discover the pleasure of made to measure hi, my name is Gary Parker and my company is called CNT Associates. We provide fundraising, business support and training services for small businesses, charities and non profit making organizations. We've raised over £20 million since 2003 and we'd like to help you. Visit us ntassociates.com or on Twitter ntassociates Women's radio station is creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostn or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date Keep up to date with all our exciting news. Hello, my name is Counsellor Dee. I'm a psychotherapist and hypnotherapist and was trained at the Birkbeck College, University of London. I work with the chakras and energy fields. I specialize in relationship issues, general anxiety disorders, self sabotage, depression, phobias, drug abuse, gambling addictions and I hope you get your life back together. 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See the dress and enter our competition on the giveaway page on womensradiostation.com Ace City Law Firm we are leading innovative and multi award winning solicitors in London. But why choose us? Well, unlike traditional law firms, we think outside the box. Our advice is accessible from anywhere, even your own home. Due to our online video conferencing a City Law firm, our people set us apart. Contact us on 0207-426-0382 www.acitylawfirm.com hi, I'm Sarah Austin and I'm the founder of the really Helpful Club, an online and offline community that helps supports and connects thousands of women in our personal and business lives. We are buzzing. Join us to share and discover your best ideas. Come to our events to meet other members and learn something. New book now for our London workshop on 10 May helping you prepare for and manage the menopause. Membership is free. Join now by visiting reallyhelpfulclub.com Please also find us on thewomensradiostation.com. So you mentioned earlier about London and we've discussed Rome, but which direction do you see the industry going in the next sort of 5 to 10 years? There is this retail slowdown that you mentioned, but what's going to happen according to you? It's difficult to say. As I said, indeed there's a slowdown right now in the industry. There's a lot of discussions happening around every level of the industry, just the gems, the manufacturers, retailers. It's worrying because we don't know when it stops, that slow movement. We're all in the same position. We all need a big customer that spends the big buck, basically. But it's how to get that customer in a climate which is not extremely favorable because I think just generally the global politic economic climate is not super pleasant. So people are nervous and that doesn't make you want to spend on jewelry normally. So what I think, and this is what I've heard a bit as well, is that potentially the industry is going to shrink a little bit. I think that some players will probably stop that game, move on to a different industry. I see this happening within the next five to 10 years, in my opinion, anyway. And that means that maybe the ones that come out on the other side that are still in the industry will have the same customers, but fewer of them competing against each other to get the customers. That's how I see it. It's obviously not extremely positive because I don't wish on anyone to have to close down shop for any reason, but it's been tough. It's been really tough. So with this sort of shrinkage that we're seeing in the industry, particularly with Baselworld, this very big show that happens annually in Basel in Switzerland, a lot of big brands have pulled out world. What do you think is behind that? What's the reasoning? What's going on there? Yeah, absolutely. Things are changing. You can tell. I mean, it's at every level. It's interesting what's happening with Basel because Basel used to be a trade show, as in purely for trade, as in the people that purchase, the people that look for manufacturers, you know, the people that need to buy products to fill their shops. This is what it used to be like every other show in the world. And it used to be the case for watches as well. What's happened in maybe the last five years is that, as you say, huge brands have gotten in, they've created shops in the fair. Amazing. I mean, you know, sprinkles all over our eyes, incredible shops. And it's just gone. What I'd say is it's left less and less space for the trade to exhibit and also less and less space for the trade to visit the fair. This is actually the first year in my whole career that I haven't been to Basel. I think the company, we just decided all together that it wasn't worth going anymore because we go and we look to purchase gemstones. We go and look for workshops that have amazing skills that we can't necessarily get at home. This is what we look for when we go to a show like that. Now we, we go there and all we do is bump into customers and the people that we'd see in the shop or press, which is also great, but it's just not the same show. We're not interested in this anymore. And I think what's happened is less and less people have come to visit, prices have gone up to exhibit because of the quality, I guess of the brands that we're exhibiting. And so it's just a double edged sword. I think everyone stopped exhibiting there. But I don't know if you've heard, but there's a new show starting. I think it's going to be in a month or so. It's called Gem Geneva. This sounds interesting. I really want to go in and see what's going on there because this I think is back to what we are expecting us as the insult of the trade. We want to see gem dealers from everywhere around the world. We want to see manufacturers, we want to see many brands, I would say not, you know, Chanel or. We don't want to see this at our level. We want to see people that we can actually buy from to fill the stores. So do you think with Jem Geneve. That's my French accent coming out there. Is there a potential for that to be as big as Basel eventually? Or is it the case that they may have say three to five good years and then it slows down again? What was the trajectory? Trajectory? I think Jim Geneva has a super strong possibility of working because if we don't do Basel anymore, which I think is going to be the case from now on, the only other options in Europe that we have are Vincenza and Inorganta Realistic. I mean there's obviously a few smaller shows than that. IJL in London and Paris has a few shows, etc. But the real bigger shows would be those two. And as much as they've been around for a while and they have the things we're looking for, I think people are also looking for more upmarket fare in Europe and it would be a shame not to have it. And I think Jim Geneva is going to have very much the weight we need it to have. What about sihh? That's an annual watch show, is that right? Or what happens there? Yeah, absolutely. It's Salon International de la Haute Hors l'. Auxerie. So completely Watch dedicated. I don't personally go to that show. All we'd see there is watch brands presenting their last collection. It's very much a second Basel in a sense, but purely dedicated to watches. Again, I think when they. All the brands that exhibit there present their newest collection. And we're talking brands, Richemont Group brands. So it's not so much an end user brand, it's more of an end user brand than a trade brand. Trade show. And Richemont. Can you explain a little bit more about that beast of a company and sort of brands that we know that are in Richemont? Yeah. So Richemont is this Swiss base, I think basically a hedge fund, but that owns a ton of the brands that we know, Cartier being their main one, Van Cleef and Arpels, obviously. So my husband works for them. They have Chloe, the fashion brand. They have. I think they have Montblanc and basically they're enormous. They have the top brands of the industry in the jewelry and luxury industry. Okay, so going away from work and your professional life, what are your hobbies outside of work? For example, music or film, podcasts, what do you do? What does Clemence do? When Clemence is not talking about jewelry or working, I'm not very exciting. My thing is Netflix and Jill, unfortunately, the real Netflix and Jill. And I watch series a lot. I shop online a lot. I'm an Instagram addict. Totally. So I follow. It's very, very clear to see from your Instagram because it's so gorgeous. I don't know about that. I probably need a lot of feedback on how to do it better. But this is what I like. I like to follow bloggers. I actually have been following bloggers since I'm a teenager and I've never stopped. I love fashion and I think this is what brought me to the jewelry industry, is because jewelry is, in my view, the elevated version of fashion. It's what you accessorize your fashion with. It completes the look, in my opinion. So this is what I do. Otherwise, I love sunny holidays. I like being on a boat in the middle of the sea and not too much drink. I like drinking very French. You mentioned bloggers there. Are there any bloggers or Instagram jewelry accounts that we must be following? Well, number one, we should follow you. The carrot soup. Absolutely. Who do I like? I think jewelry masterpiece. All of those very big hitters that repost everybody's pictures. I think it's good to follow them because they repost everybody's pictures and thus you See everything that's out there. Obviously there's the Caterina Perez Jamalog. All of these are the classics. I really like. Like a B. She's a French girl, I actually know her. She's really lovely and she posts beautiful pictures. That's what's nice about Instagram, isn't it? It's the sort of aesthetics behind it. Yes. The world of blogging is absolutely extraordinary. Is there anybody else you can think of? I really like Olivier Dupont. He is a writer, actually an author, and he's written a couple of books on different subjects, but particularly one on high jewelry. And his Instagram account is flawless in my opinion. He's using this white glove and I'm trying to convince him to make it a hashtag thewhiteglove, but he's not convinced yet. And his pictures are amazing. He gets to see a lot of things that are very, very nice and difficult to see if you don't have his skill set or his connections. But it's really nice Instagram. I strongly recommend following him as well. So he's an author that works in the jewelry industry? Absolutely. So he's also a journalist. He writes. He writes on different subjects, but he's very much targeted the high collections, high jewellery collections. So he writes about every brand, but only on sort of high quality pieces. It's interesting. Speaking of high quality pieces and high quality gemstones, you mentioned Morganite earlier, but what is your favourite gemstone and why? So obviously Morganite, definitely my favorite in the gemstone world. However, I do love diamonds, as you know, Clemence loves diamonds on Instagram. Yes, exactly. I think diamonds is. Diamond is the best because it suits everything. You can wear it with every color. And I'm very sad about the fact that Morganite, being that peachy pink, doesn't actually suit every skin tone, unfortunately. And it doesn't screw suit my skin tone. Every time I put a Morganite on top of my skin, it just disappears. Oh, no. Yeah, it's tragic. So it's always nice to see when it suits someone and they wear it really well, but it's that type of thing, diamonds, it always suits me. That's a good excuse, I think. Yeah. I mean, otherwise I'm not so keen on like the classic styles like sapphire, emerald, all of that. It's a bit too. You see it everywhere. I like things that are a little bit more unusual. I like zircon. Are there any unusual diamonds that you've seen over the years? Yeah, absolutely. I've seen something, actually. I've seen something really, really interesting once. I was in Basel a few years back and I hear on the show that someone has a diamond cabochon. So for anyone who's listening, that doesn't exist. It's impossible. When I heard this I thought someone was making a joke. Turns out it was for real. I went to check the booth of the person who had this out and they showed me they had seven seven diamond cabochons. So what's really weird is so diamonds are formed in geometric structure mostly and very often they have layers. That's how they're constructed. You don't see them because they're all impricted in each other, but its layers on top of each other. Meaning if you basically knock on a diamond the wrong way, so in the angle that is really parallel to the layers, you could break a diamond. And that's basically what happens when you see a broken diamond. This is what's happened. Layers have basically slipped away from each other. That makes it impossible to cut in a round or sort of domes cut. So when you hear diamond cabochon you think that something's weird like hi, I'm Sarah Austin and I'm the founder of the really Helpful Club, an online and offline community that helps supports and connects thousands of women in our personal and business lives. We are buzzing. Join us to share and discover your best ideas. Come to our events to meet other members and learn something New book now for our London workshop on 10 May helping you prepare for and manage the menopause. Membership is free. Join now by visiting reallyhelpfulclub.com Please also find us on thewomensradio station.com hi, I'm Ekaterina Brehova, Head of Conference Production City and Financial Global and I want to tell you about our vote 100 Women in Business Summit at the Royal Garden Hotel on 17th of April. Opened by her Royal Highness the Countess of Wessex. It will be a great day full of useful content and amazing networking opportunities. To book for this fantastic event, please go to our website www.citnfinancial.com or or you can find us on womensradiostation.com Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand, advertise your product services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information visit womensradiostation.com hi, my name is Gary Parker and my company is called CNT Associates. 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If you're a social butterfly in the community, this fast growing franchise could be for you. If you would like to know more about stepping into our pink shoes, then look at the business opportunity page on our website. Live LaughLoveLadies Club also at Women's Radio Station. Women's Radio Station can give a voice to your brand with a wide range of sports sponsorship opportunities, including individual programs. We can tailor your experience to you. For more information on how you can sponsor a show, go to womensradiostation.com welcome back to Hidden Gems with Maya on Women's Radio Station, the program where we showcase extraordinary women in the world of mining and in the gemstone and jewellery industry. So what is a cabochon for our listeners? A cabochon is a flat bottom, domed top stone, meaning it's a complete. It's like, it's a. It's a sphere which was cut in half. And actually that's what we think happened with this diamond. Anyway, so I saw these diamonds and I thought, this is incredible. They had GIA certificate which said cabochon cut, which is unbelievable because how did you know? I thought maybe they were playing a trick or something, but even gia, you know, did all the tests and it said it was diamonds. I mean, unbelievable. So obviously I purchased both of a pair for William and Son at the time and they still have them. So you should definitely go into William and Son and ask to see them. And so after that followed, you know, a lot of conversations. So obviously on the show it was a bit of a conversation, but not sort of a main conversation. Obviously the people that in the whole wear this, her message, all of that, they don't hear about this, but it's more the gem side. People were talking about those diamond cabochons and there wasn't that many anyway, so I bought two already. Anyway, after the show, I had people coming in the store asking, I hear you bought iron cabochons and people from the trade. And then I had Ed Johnson, my former headmaster from gia, who came in one day and I showed them to him and he couldn't believe it. And since he's just been sending people in the store to have a look at them. And one day, months later, maybe even a year later, my designer and I, Nikki, we were in Hong Kong at the show and we arrived around the corner of the booth of the people that we bought the diamonds from. And who do we see? Ed Johnson and someone else from GIA who was. They were talking about the diamond cabochons. I mean, it's such a funny little thing, like the universe obviously created this diamond cabochon story, but we think it would have been cut by a laser. So not hand cut, obviously, round as a little bowl and then it was sliced in two to create a cabochon. That's the only way we can think of how it was done. The craftsmanship must be absolutely exceptional for that. Yeah. And we don't know anything because obviously we know most of the cutters. It's easy to find who cuts when, where, but for this, we didn't know who it was. We don't know who actually ventured in cutting diamonds round. Very odd. Do you know where the other. The seven altogether, you said. So where are the other five, do we know? I think they sold them, but obviously to privates or sort of private stores. So I don't know where they ended up. But ours haven't been set yet, actually. They look very metallic, so it's probably more of a masculine taste than a feminine taste. But for anyone who's a gem geek like me, it's just you just want them, you don't even need to set them, they're just amazing. Do you think there could be some cufflinks, perhaps? Yeah, and we've designed a few cufflinks designs for them, actually, to propose to customers. We think they would be really unique and obviously because it's diamonds, it's not as fragile as any other gemstone, so it's perfect for cufflinks, but we'll see. And what does Nikki think, the designer that you mentioned, your colleague? Yeah, she was the one who to supposed suggested we should do that. She also thought of a type in to make it a little bit more elegant and more sort of finishing a look. So she did all of that and the designs look great. They're quite modern and to go with the metallic look of the gems. So now it's looking lovely. Oh, lovely. So in terms of gemstones, we've talked about cabochons, we've talked about some of the beautiful Morganites you would have seen on your travels. But what kind of stones do you prefer in terms of how they are, if it's cut and polished or rough? I actually prefer cut and polished. Just because you get the final, final result. I'm not an expert in rough. I obviously practiced a bit with Madagascar and we bought some rough and we had it cut. So that was fun because it was the first time I took the risk that people feel when you're going ahead and cutting something, obviously with very limited budget, but it's less easy to visualize. I'm more of a creative, as I told you, I like fashion, so I Need to project what I'm going to be doing with this more like what type of piece I'm going to wear with. So I'm more on that side of the industry, I would say, for me. And how did you go about going to make it from rough to cut? Did you have an idea? Did you sit with the cutter, or did you have a drawing? How did you do it? Yeah, so I sat with the cutter. I'm not an expert, as I said. So I. I was very much reliant on what the cutter would advise. And actually, there are some. There was one gem that we were allowed to choose, so my husband and I chose oval cut for that one just because I think they were a little bit more flexible. They thought, okay, it's not the end of the world if we break it or anything. And then the others, I just let the cut to the side. I said, just cut the biggest stone you can get out of this. It doesn't really matter, you know, if it's a sellable or attractive cut. I'm not a huge fan of pears, which is why I say, this pears for me, or anything that's a bit pointy. It's not my personal preference, but he did cut a pear out of one of the stones that we gave him, and it looks beautiful. Actually, it will make a lovely pendant for someone. So I'll just. I'll just make that into a pendant one day and give it to somebody. Probably not wear it myself. Oh, that'd be a fabulous gift, wouldn't it? What is your favorite cut for gemstones? I have a huge crush on cushion cuts. Cushion cuts are round. They're. I'm gonna say cuddly, even though that makes no sense. They're just, like, feminine and warm. It sounds weird to say those words to describe a cut, but I know what I mean. It's just more curvy. I like curves. Oh, that's why you're saying you're against sort of pointy shapes, marquees, and that sort of thing. So moving on to where you get your inspiration from, from a personal and professional perspective, what is your source of inspiration, and who is your source of inspiration? So it was. I guess it would have been easier to answer when I was still permanent at William and Son, because obviously at William and Son, we had a. A real vision that we were carrying through, etc. Now I'm flying solo. My source of inspiration is a little bit harder to find because, as you know, when you fly solo, you have to drive yourself upwards so, yeah, it's just been working on giving myself, motivating myself, really, and basically inspiring myself. So I have to have that dream and go for it, don't I? And it's something that it takes a lot of inside you to go and dig for this and then make it happen. In terms of who is my inspiration, I never had a mentor, unfortunately. I'm actually quite sad about this, but it just meant that I've been mentoring myself and I didn't get. What you get when you have a mentor, I guess, is a lot of learning curves that your mentor can give you. What I've had to do is mistakes and then learn from them, but now I'm on the other side of it. Not that I'm that old and I could still have a mentor technically, but I like that I've had to do the mistakes and learn myself. I think maybe that worked better for me, and that's probably why I never had a mentor. Now, saying this, what's been guiding me the whole time in the industry and everything I've done is probably my great grandma. Even though she wasn't in the industry, no one was in the industry in my family. She was one of the first women in France to start a company in post war time. So at a time when this wasn't going happening, she actually got a medal for it, the Legion d'. Honneur. I don't know if you've heard of that medal. She started a lingerie, feminine love, female, or how do you say, women's lingerie brand? Just post war, basically. And she's the type of. Well, she was the type of woman that she's had three husbands, obviously didn't count on a man to do anything for her. She was counting on herself. And she had her daughter that was, you know, my grandma following her everywhere and working together with her. She would buy her own jewelry, incredible pieces. She would buy her own, you know, Christian Dior fur coat. She was actually quite a small woman, but huge character. She had, you know, gay friends. In a time where that also wasn't really happening, she was buying her own pieces of art. I mean, complete independent woman. And today you think this is. This happens every day. But at the time where this wasn't happening, and maybe I've created her story in my head a little bit more in saying that it wasn't reality. My dad sometimes think when I tell the story, he's sometimes thinking, yeah, I mean, she was great. But you're obviously, you've built up this amazing role model for yourself. And I have, but I think it's based on facts. That's what I've heard from my grandma, from her. So this is what I've had in mind, I guess, like this independent, strong character, pushing boundaries. This is probably my mentor without having sort of grown up next to her that much. But I'm sure she, her spirit, spirit is with you as you go about your day to day life, professionally and personally. Yeah, absolutely. I think in my family we do a lot of strong women. So no matter what, she was going to be with me the whole time. At Women's Radio, we do a lot of strong women also. So that's perfect. So Clemence, tell us what motivates you to stay in this role and in this industry? My never ending passion. I'm never bored in this job, in this world. It's just the last 10 years, there's not been one day where I was bored. I mean, obviously there are slow days at work as I think everyone goes through, but I just love every little bit of it. I love learning every day. I mean, I've been learning for the last 10 years and I hope I will learn until the end. This is the fascinating thing about this industry is you can't think, you know, it all, it changes all the time. I mean, not that long ago we still thought that red spinels were rubies. I mean, this is, this is the world we're in. Like, it changes and we think we know and then we don't and then things change. It's amazing. So this is what motivates me. And it's just a real, I'm a gem geek, you know, I just want to know all the gems. I want to see all the gems. I want to go visit other mines. I want to go to Colombia. I want, you know, this is what motivates me. And what do you think about sort of 3D printing and the world of technology and the intersection of, with the gem and jewelry world as well as any other bits of technology that's really changed how we do things. I think in the design process, it's definitely been an advantage. We've used it quite a bit. I like the handmade, personally. I like sort of traditional techniques. I think we've lost quite a bit as well because as I said earlier, I started my career at Christie's basically. So I've been more, I mean, I started with the knowledge of older pieces, older ways of making, you know, interchangeable pieces, etc. And we've lost, we've lost a lot of Skills, which is unfortunate. So the evolution of the manufacturing and the designing processes is a good thing, but it's a shame when we're losing skills from before anyway. But in the gem world, I mean, we develop huge amounts of, of new machines that can tell the color of a diamond without a human eye. I mean, in theory it's very nice. I don't, still, I don't see how this is possible because there's a judgment call in grading a diamond and it needs a human eye and you can't make a human eye machine. I mean, you might be able to very soon, I don't know. But I think there still needs to be a human involved at some part of the process. The fact that the machines are there to help is good thing, but as long as we don't forget, I guess, the skills that we have without it, if you know what I mean. So you mentioned there this idea of needing human eye. What is your view on synthetic diamonds and is it easy for the naked eye or is it for the trained people? What happens first of all, explain what they are and then your view on it, perhaps. So what we call synthetic diamonds or synthetic gemstones is anything that was made in a lab, so it's not produced by Mother Earth. I am not extremely excited about the fact that this world is obviously increasing in growth. There's a lot of people that say synthetic diamonds are good because they're less harmful in the process of mining than real natural diamonds are. So for example, there's no kids working in the mine, there's no damage done to the earth in the process of mining, etc. And I see that point, but obviously there is wastage and pollution created by doing anything in the lab as well. So then you think, okay. What was interesting though is I was talking to someone the other day and they were saying, you know, in Canada, they have diamond mines up very, very high up north in Canada and apparently everything is mined by drone. So there's no humans in the mine. Everything is done by machines and then collected by drones and brought back to back where humans live in Canada. And that's natural diamonds, but it's all done by machine. So I guess there is a, the line is very thin in between where there's natural and synthetic start and stop. But the next couple of years is going to be interesting for the difference between, between the two. And there's a lot of people that are saying that the price for synthetic diamonds will come and match the price of natural diamond and then natural diamonds are going to have to go higher and then they'll match and then they'll go higher and then they'll match. So there's going to be a bit of competition between the two for a little while. People are thinking, you know, I, I don't want to harm the earth, so I'll have a synthetic diamond for my engagement ring instead, etc. There's going to be a bit of that. That's creating the competition, but in the end of it, I think everything's going to fall down again. And actually, I guess one positive aspect of all of this is the interest that's creating on older diamonds. So old mine cuts, old European cuts. So all of this is gemstones that have been cut back in the 1800s or prior to that. And that's becoming a little bit more popular because we know they're real, we know they're natural, they have inclusions. There's just nothing more natural than a very old diamond that's just been transferred from. What are inclusions? Sorry? Inclusions are, you know, when we grade a diamond and you have the four Cs, carat, cut, clarity, color, clarity is what we grade, is the part of the grading of a diamond which will say to you if your diamond is included or not, which basically means if there's something inside of it. Or they say impurity, but I don't like that word. If there is a trademark or a birthmark. Is that similar to what you mentioned earlier with Jardin and the emeralds? Absolutely, it's exactly the same. So the clarity is basically. If there's inclusions inside the diamond, this is what we say when we say si vs vvs. So SI for grading, is slightly included, then VS very slightly included. VVS very, very slightly included. So this is what we're talking about. But inclusions can be fascinating. I mean, inclusions is one of my favorite things about the gem world. For example, diamonds can be included. Well, are included very regularly, but can be included with a natural. We call it a natural. A natural is another mineral trapped inside a diamond. So at gia, when I was studying eight years ago, I saw a diamond with a ruby inside. Wow. A ruby inclusion. So a little heart red stone trapped inside it. I mean, how romantic is this? But you can't actually go out in the market and say, I want a ruby inclusion. Diamond doesn't work that way because we don't grade by what's inside. We grade by there is something inside. However, my engagement ring, which, if you follow me on Instagram, you'll have seen on Basically all my pictures, it has a diamond inclusion inside, which is completely. I didn't even know. I mean, obviously makes sense because diamonds and ruby diamonds grow where diamonds are, so it makes sense. But like, I couldn't even imagine that I could have a diamond with a diamond inside. Complete gem geek thing. No one cares apart from me. Your husband must have loved that double diamond. Absolutely. Like pave inside the stone and outside. So just going back, we're talking about synthetic and real and what is synthetic, what isn't? What about being real with yourself and sort of being true to yourself? What advice would you give to your younger self? Or actually, better yet, what advice would you give to young women or people who are going into the industry that you wish you'd have known at the beginning of your career? You said you didn't have a mentor and you know, what would you say to them? I think the best advice I could give is do as many internships, work experiences as you possibly can. That's where you're going to learn the most. I mean, gia, for example, is a great school to learn about gems, but you learn even more when you start, start working in this world. So really getting as much experience as possible is the best. But then also trust your instincts. That's something I wish I was told more, even though probably. I was probably told 10 times and I never listened. I hoped I listened at the time because this has been. It's the hardest thing when you start in the gem world. But trusting your instincts is what's going to give you the answers for, you know, buying the right thing or not being fooled, what gym this is, etc. Or knowing that you're doing the right thing, etc. It's just trusting yourself, really. And then I guess persevering and working hard. There's no secret, isn't there? You just need to work hard and you eventually get there. Wow, we've learned so much today. I feel like even I've had a little bit more than I was expecting. So it's great. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us before we go? I just wanted to thank you so much for having me here. And obviously I'm happy to be a mentor to anyone since I never had a mentor. I actually signed up for mentorship program to offer myself as a mentor. I think it was from the Goldsmith Center. They were doing something like this. I haven't been solicited yet, but if you're hearing this and you want a mentor and you want me, I'd love to be your mentor. Oh, wow. That's terrific. Thank you so much for coming in. It's been really, really wonderful to have you with us and to learn so much more. Clemence loves diamonds and hidden gems, loves Clemence. It's great. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you so much.