Hidden Gems – Rosey Perkins

Hello and welcome to Hidden Gems with Maya on Women's Radio Station. Coming to you from our studio in London, Hidden Gems is designed to inform and inspire our listeners by showcasing extraordinary women in the world of mining as well as the jewellery and gemstone industry. Today on Hidden Gems we're joined by Rosie Perkins. She's a field gemologist and a filmmaker. We were first introduced by mutual friend within our industry. Rosie's work has taken her audience to the depths of the mines in Montepuez, Mozambique and as far as Vietnam with pearl mining. So Rosie, as with all of our guests, we would like to get to know you a little bit better. So can you just describe who you are and what you do in your own words? Well, I'm a field gemmologist and that has involved over the last couple of years a variety of projects ranging from research to documentary filmmaking. It means basically that I'm a gemologist that goes out to the mining locations and with the research, what does that entail? So actually I'm still in publication in the writing phase at the moment, so I can't reveal too much, but it's using samples taken from the field, where they have a known provenance and experimenting on them with the lab. In the lab, sorry, experimenting on them in a lab, taking photographs, documenting changes in relation to what other variables we're using and then we'll be writing up a research paper to share with the industry. And where are these labs? Are they in the mine regions? Are they in specific parts of the world? Generally, where are they? Well, Bangkok is a hub for labs because it is probably the biggest trading hub for colored gemstones. So I'm actually working with Lotus Lab, lab in Bangkok at the moment, with Billy Hughes in particular. Who's Billy Hughes? Billy Hughes is a wonderful gemologist and famous in her own right for her photomicrography. She's taken. Can you explain what that is for the listeners, please? She's taken award winning photos of the inclusions inside gemstones. So when you look inside a gemstone through a microscope, you can see all of the tiny included particles, which might be crystals of appetite, you know, other minerals which can be very beautiful and take you sort of completely out of world, out of your out of world sort of places. Anyway, she takes both scientific and artistic photographs of the insides of gemstones, but she's also a lab gemologist and writes reports for gemstones detailing their origin, whether they're natural or treated. And so she has both an artistic eye and a great depth of knowledge. Oh, fantastic. She's wonderful to work with. I'm sure she'd say the same about you, Rosie. So you've mentioned labs and you go to the mind. So who is it that you work with? So in the last couple of years I've worked with Billy obviously and Lotus Lab and also Vincent Pagiou who is a very famous field gemologist, perhaps the most original. The original. I think he coined the term field gemology. He has a couple of websites where you can see his travels. Can you give us an example of those websites? Gemology.org and conservationgenology.org he has a passion for conservation and his sort of great interest, personal interest, is to connect conservation with gemology. And he's encouraging jewelry and gem businesses to support conservation. That's why I was traveling with him and making a film about Nyasa Lion Project, which is a conservation project in Northern Mozambique. We made a film which showed the challenges and the work in general of this conservation project which is struggling against poaching and mining also, particularly gold mining. And Vincent Padilla was basically showing what they're doing and encouraging the industries to support projects like these and sort of, in his words, raise the karma of the gemstones that aren't necessarily traceable within the industry, adding something positive to them. Sure. And where can we see this film? You can see it on my website, rosyperkins.com and also my Vimeo page. And is your Vimeo Rosie Perkins also? Yes. And in fact you can see it on fieldgemology.org as well, which is Vincent's website. Okay. In your opinion, does our industry welcome women at all levels? For example, from interns to sort of C level CEO, CFOs, CTOs and in leadership roles. And would you say it's accessible? Well, the jewelry industry and the gemstone industry are quite different, quite contrasting. The jewelry industry is much more corporate, isn't it? And I think it's much more accessible for women. But there have been recent publications saying how different the, how wide the gender pay gap is. And I think that relates more to the fact that women don't progress to the higher roles as quickly or as easily as men. And maybe that's in part because lots of the large companies are actually family businesses. Ah, sure. But maybe it's also some of these traditional issues that are evident there. Do you think there's a way around that? How can we make sure that perhaps more women could enter the market without being involved in a family business? Well, you know, there, over the last five years, I think there has been a noticeable increase in women who are training as gemmologists. I was definitely told that when I was studying. And so I think there will be a natural rise of women. I like to think so. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. And can you say a little bit more about you as a woman in your role and if you faced any challenges? Because of course you're going out there to the mines and you're traveling a lot around the world. Have you faced any challenges? Well, so, yes, the gemstone industry is different and it's usually, it's much more. There are many more self employed people, self made people, traders, those sorts of roles it's more difficult to get into as a woman. And definitely people who have heard what I've done, they've seen the videos that I've made, then see me and are very surprised that I am who I am and that I'm not more intimidating and bigger and more muscly because I've gone to the mines. And lots of people are worried about the security issues related to, to those unregulated areas. I in fact, was warned very strongly not to go to a mining area in Madagascar 18 months ago. But I decided to walk in and have a look and take photos and document what was happening. And I was strongly recommended to take security with me, which I was hesitant to do. I didn't want to appear intimidating and I didn't necessarily want to be around armed men. I chose to take in a local woman from the nearest town. Fantastic. And I walked in with her. And in fact, I think it was perhaps the fact that we did look so vulnerable, so unarmed, that actually the police who were guarding the area allowed me to take the photographs and do what I wanted on the provision that I wasn't going to buy the gemstones at the mine. And I think it was our vulnerability that made us accepted. So actually perhaps it's a help rather than hindrance to be a woman. I think it can be, yeah. So as a field gemologist, you get to see and interact with life at the source. Can you explain to our listeners what that's like? Well, it's a fascinating thing and a great privilege to be able to travel to these places, to the mining areas where and see the source of these beautiful gemstones and meet the people who. It's who for who. Traveling is very much more difficult than it is for us. But it's also very inspiring because they do work in very compromised conditions, often unregulated conditions. But they're immensely passionate about the gemstones and about what they're doing and I have found that they're sort of determination. Their drive actually makes me work harder and more determined to tell their story and to sell gemstones and promote them than I otherwise would be. Well Rosie, it's been so interesting to hear this sort of first section about your career and where you've been. We'll hear a little bit more after the break. Women's Radio Station will give a voice to your brand. Advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com at distinctively me we're passionate about making clothes that complement any body shape through our made to measure tailored pieces. Distinctively Me's smart and elegant clothes are made in our London studio from the highest quality fabrics and will create the perfect outfit for any woman. 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Join now by visiting reallyhelpfulclub.com Please also find us on thewomensradio station.com Today's giveaway will be two VIP theatre tickets to the productions playing at the wonderful Jermyn Street Theatre, located just off Piccadilly in London's West End. It's free to enter and all the details are on our website, www.womensradiostation.com competition page ready for a challenge? Then take on the Pink Ribbon Walk for Breast Cancer. Coming to Oxfordshire and Essex this summer, we've got everything covered from snacks along the route to a massage and medal when you cross the finish line. And while we support you with every step, you'll be doing something special to support the thousands of people going through one of the toughest challenges they'll ever face, breast cancer. Visit breastcancercare.org.uk Walk. Welcome back to Hidden Gems with Maya on Women's Radio Station, the program where we showcase extraordinary women in the world of mining, jewelry and gemstones. Today we are talking to Rosie Perkins who is a field gemologist and filmmaker. We've discussed life at the mine, how she travels around the world and gets to meet some very exciting people as well as conservation efforts. So Rosie, going back to our very wonderful questions to get to know you. What rather in which direction do you see the industry going in the next five to ten years? Well, everyone's talking about traceability at the moment. I think that there will be, especially in the west, more about provenance looking at jewelry where gemstones are telling the story of the people and the places they come from. Whether it's possible to I think there will be more businesses whose model is traceability is about traceability in terms of the rest of the industry, I'm not sure. But I think sustainability and traceability will play a more and more important role. Are there any companies that you can think of off the top of your head now who are already doing a rather marvelous job? Well, Chopal put on a panel discussion recently about sustainability. More and more people are signing up to the Responsible Jewelry Councils. So I think there will be more importance placed on sustainability and traceability. More companies, more jewelers are signing up to the RJC Code of Practices. That's the Responsible Jewelry Council's code of practices, which involves human rights as well as sustainable sustainability. But whether it's signing up to those formal codes of practice or just promoting the story of the gemstone in a less formal way, I think there'll be more of that. And do you think that'll be the case with the big brands as well as the can it be possible the artisanal miners, smaller guys, so to speak? I think there'll be more codes of practices that try and incorporate minors. But it is at the moment the major companies that are able to comply with the codes of practices. It's quite difficult for smaller companies to do that. Yeah. So now I've had the joy of actually seeing some of your films, Rosie, and most notably for me was the Montepuez mining region. So what's your favorite field trip to date and what locations on your wish list and why? Well, probably my favorite field trip would be my first trip to Madagascar because I was there alone. And for me that was the greatest adventure I was able to visit, a mining rush. So like, may you please explain what that is for the listeners. Please. So similar to the Californian gold rush where gold is found and people who are amateur gold miners rush to the site to mine themselves. And it's an unregulated phenomenon. And it was like that in Madagascar for a sapphire rush that I visited. People from all over Madagascar were there men, women, even sort of six week old babies were taken to the mine site just so that the families could have chance to find a gemstone and change their fortune. Oh, of course. Because in Madagascar there are some social issues that are very present. It's a very poor country. I heard one fact which was it's the poorest country that's not in conflict. Yeah. It's also got problems with climate change. Potentially the climate is getting less predictable. And certainly when I was there, they were very worried about the rains which were very late and there wasn't much rain that fell that year, particularly in that area. It's called the Rice Basket of Madagascar. So the rice crop absolutely depends on the rain, and worry ensues when the rains are late. And so, of course, by the time that I was there, people were really looking for another opportunity to. To source their income. And mining was a hopeful source. Rusi, from your personal and professional perspective, what is your source of inspiration? Or who is your source of inspiration? Because before the break, you mentioned going to the mine with a woman and having that sense of sort of, you're unified and you're together. And aside from telling their stories, who is your inspiration? So it probably is the people at the source that and their passion that makes me want to tell the stories of the gemstones. There are really intrepid gemologists and people who aren't in the gem jewelry industry that I very much admire. Anyone who's interested in this business should read the Gem Hunter, by Gary Bow Socks, who went to Afghanistan in the 70s and built a gem business based on sourcing, sourcing many gemstones actually, from Afghanistan, taking them over to America and selling them there, first through a jewelry shop and then through events. And he was there throughout the war in Afghanistan. And really his story shows how much trust he put into people who he had never really met before, but gained their trust enough to create a successful business and supported people that he felt a level of trust and connection with. And I think that's a fantastic thing about the German business, is that you're always meeting people and it's a very personal industry. Would you say that there could be another gem hunter? If there's a newbie who's kind of looking to enter the industry, could they be the next gem hunter in today's world? Well, I'm sure there could be. I'm sure there could be. And more than likely there are. And what motivates you, Rosie, to stay in this industry and in this role? I love how it connects people from all different walks of life or different places in the globe. It is a very personable industry, as I mentioned, and it's very exciting. And aside from the people, actually the gemstones themselves sort of blow my mind. When you look through them through a microscope at a gemstone, a blue sapphire, for example, it really looks like you're looking at the night sky and you can see tiny particles that sort of solidified millions of years ago, hundreds of millions of years ago, when the world looked completely different. And that sort of perspective of time blows my mind and sort of makes problems seem infinitesimally small as these tiny inclusions look absolutely enormous. It's always extraordinary, isn't it, to think if those gemstones could speak from the dinosaur age to today and, you know, tell the stories of everybody they've ever met or who they've come in contact with. And Rizzi, what would you tell your younger self or young women who'd want to enter the industry? Don't be put off, don't be put off by what people say and just go for it. Go for it. I love that. And okay, we're gonna go a little bit more personal this time. What are your hobbies outside of work? So because I've been traveling a lot over the last few years, it's really depended on where I am as to what I do when the sun's shining. I love playing tennis when I'm feeling stressed. I love running and I also love gliding, though I'm not able to do it at the moment as much as I'd like because of the weather or just personal circumstances. Personal circumstances and travelling. Sure. We care about social change within communities around the world and we want to help. This is why women's radio station is giving free airtime to all charities. For more details on charity advertising, visit our website@www.women's radio station. Hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new vibrant brand connecting women socially. Our club members enjoy great food, fun and inspiring speakers whilst making friends in a room of all generations. 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And is there anything else you'd like to tell us before we go? I don't think so. Okay. You've been. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It was really wonderful to have you here. It's just gliding. So you're in a box. It's one where you just go in, like the microlights. You're in a plane, but you're not. You don't take off. It doesn't take off itself. You're taking. You're towed up behind. You're towed up behind a plane or you're shot up on a winch and then you use the thermals to. I'm so gonna ask you about that on. Oh, gliding. That sounds really exciting. Gonna have to ask you a little bit more about that after the break. So you mentioned gliding just before we finished the previous section. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? What does it entail? So you sit in what looks like a very light plane. It is a plane, but it has no engine. So you're towed up behind a plane and then released, or you're shot up quite violently into the air by a winch until you're about between a thousand feet and 1500ft. And then you glide down or you look for thermals which are rising spirals of hot air which can take you higher. And you use those to travel. And where have you done that? There's a gliding club near Ashford called Kent Gliding Club, which has a fantastic course for learners and is not too far from where my parents lived. So I first went there when I was 14 and had just fantastic flights. There's an incredible sense of freedom and again, sort of a broadening of perspective when you look down and you can see these beautiful hedgerows. And actually the mundane life is sort of left behind as you see these incredible sunsets. And England looks so beautiful from above. It's quite fascinating as well that your job entails going underground. And then your hobby enjoys being sort of not just overground, but at this great height, sort of eagle eye. How exciting. Is there anything else you like, sort of. Well, being a filmmaker. Are there any films or music you enjoy? Podcasts? YouTubers? I particularly enjoy Desert island Discs. Oh, brilliant. I do too. BBC soul music. Yeah, I really like. I like listening to people's lives and how music sort of changes and shapes them. I also, I love documentary films as well, and I can't say exactly which, you know, which. Which type. I just love all exploring, all types of documentary films. And how did you get into the filmmaking side, outside of it being a hobby? Because this is really great. I've seen your work, as I said before, and it's excellent. Well, thank you very much. I've always been interested in filmmaking and really it was when I went to Sri Lanka once and saw how mining was taking place and what a beautiful landscape it all. On my first trip to Sri Lanka, I saw how the miners were extracting gravels, ancient gravels, sieving them in the river, and what a beautiful landscape it was all taking place around, and thought, if only people who wore sapphires or gemstones from Sri Lanka could see all of this taking place, surely they would want to buy more. I quite. I did. I was completely inspired and so it made me want to take photographs and, and film to show people what it was really like. And so do you have all the equipment and things, or have you been building up a collection over the years? Yeah, I've been building up collection and of course, there are a drone. I'd like to have a drone. I'd like to have better equipment, but, yeah, it's. It's an organic process. Have you heard about the drone mining that's going on in Canada? Drone mining? No. Tell me more. Supposedly they get a drone and then the drone goes out to. I guess they've already done the exploration and they know where it is and then the drone goes and finds it in the hope that it's less of a sort of. The drones go out to the field and then they get the material and it's just to make sure that, you know, there's less of a safety. Bit of a safety issue that often happens when people are mining. Right. But, yeah, you should look into it. I will, I will. Might spoil my fun. No, no, no. It will always be there, I'm sure. Field traumalogy. Rosie, it was so lovely talking to you and hearing more about your story. Thank you so much for coming in. Thanks for having me. And if you have any questions for the program, please. And if you have any questions for hidden gems, please email presentersomensradiostation.com or. Or tweet us womensradiostn. And if you want to hear more about Rosie, if you want to listen again, I'm going to listen to this at least another three times because I want to know even more about Sri Lanka and Vietnam and of course Malawi. Sorry. If you have any questions for Hidden gems, please email presentersomensradiostation.com or tweet us womensradiostn it was really great to have gemologist and filmmaker Rosie Perkins and we hope to welcome you back again on Hidden Gems. Once you've been on another adventure somewhere, you've been listening to Hidden Gems on Women's Radio Station and if you want to listen again or catch up on our previous programs, you can head to the presenters page on womensradiostation.com thank you so much for listening. Hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new vibrant brand connecting women socially. Our club members enjoy great food, fun and inspiring speakers whilst making friends in a room of all generations. If you're a social butterfly in the community, this fast growing franchise could be for you. If you would like to know more about stepping into our pink shoes, then look at the Business Opportunity page on our website live laughloveladies.club also@womensradiostation.com women's radio station will give a voice to your brand, advertise your product, create services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com hi, I'm Sarah Austin and I'm the founder of the really Helpful Club, an online and offline community that helps, supports and connects thousands of women in our personal and business lives. We are buzzing. Join us to share and discover your best ideas. Come to our events to meet other members and learn something. New book now for our London workshop on 10 May helping you prepare for and manage the menopause. 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Well, I think traceability and sustainability are keywords that more and more will be featured in the jewelry industry. Tiffany for a long time have promoted sustainable practices. Earlier this year, Chopard set up a panel discussion about that. And more and more companies are signing up to the Responsible Jewelry Council's code of practices. Whether jewelers will continue to do that, I think they will. Or not. It's also possible to use the gemstone, the story of the gemstone, as a key part of a company's promotion strategy. For example, gem fields. Every stone tells a story. They tell the story of their gemstone. They know the source. And I think more and more jewellers will tap into that. And you mentioned Chopard and Tiffany's and just a moment ago, gemfields. Are there any other jewellers doing that here in the uk? Certainly. Promoting Boodles has signed up to the Responsible Jewelry Council's Code of Practices, code of conduct. But there are other jewellers such as the Rockhound who promotes ethical jewelry. They use ethical gold, responsibly sourced gold, and also promote the story of a gemstone. So you just mentioned Baselworld again just a moment ago. Sorry, you've just given me an idea. Are there any trade shows that you like to go to? There is an annual trade show in Tucson, Arizona, which I particularly enjoy because you are able to meet gem traders from every part of the gem trade. So there are huge specimens of amethyst, huge geodes that might be 6ft tall. You can sit inside them. There are also the crystal healers and then also very fine quality sapphires and emeralds from everywhere. Are there any trade shows that you go to here in the uk? There is the IJL in London. What does IJL stand for? That's International Jewellery London. Beautiful. Okay. Okay, Rosie, is there anything else you'd like to tell us before we go? Well, no. Thanks very much for having me on the show. And for listening to my interest in how these sort of tiny stones sort of tell the story of the whole world. And it's sort of a cosmic fascination that attracts me to it, but not just that, it's obviously the people as well and, and, and a sense of value in both. It's really interesting to me that when you go to a mine, you might be looking for a huge, beautiful sapphire, but actually the closest you, closer you get to the mine, the less likely you are to be able to find a huge sapphire. You're much more likely to find, find them far away on Bond street or in New York. But of course it's valuable in New York and in London where there is somebody who is willing to pay a high price for those stones. Actually at the mine themselves is worth very little because there is no one or fewer people who will pay a high price for it. So the value is something that is so, so variable and the scale is so enormous and it's a little bit like that with people and what you're doing so wonderful in voicing the stories of the people. And that's partly why I love going to the mines. And you might think people often say, well, people exploited the mines. And for me part of the fascination is going to the mines and seeing how passionate these miners are and how excited they are about the find that they might have in a week's time. And once I was in Sri Lanka and a miner said two weeks ago a 100 carat blue sapphire was found in the next door claim. Goose pimples. Gosh, they were so excited. And then one of them or the man I was with pulled out an iPhone as they said, look on Angelina Jolie's ring there is a huge thing sapphire. And they said, I bet that stone is the one that was sold in New York and sold to Angelina Jolie. And rather than feeling at a loss by that, they were so excited that the stone that they almost touched was the one that could be seen far away in, in Angelina Jola in America on Angelina Jolie's ring finger. Gosh, what a profound and beautiful way to end. Thank you so much for listening and thank you once again. Rosie Women's radio station will give a voice to your brand, advertise your product, services or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, visit womensradiostation.com hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new vibrant brand Connecting women socially. Our club members enjoy great food, fun and inspiring speakers whilst making friends in a room of all generations. If you're a social butterfly in the community, this fast growing franchise could be for you. 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