Sara Liyanage, Ticking Off Breast Cancer

Welcome to today's Get Booked radio show here in our studio in Covent Garden, supporting women's emotional well being, opening discussions and offering support via the incredible writers and listeners out there. I'm Hazel Butterfield, the presenter of Get Booked. And joining me in the studio studio today, today I have Sarah Leonard. I've done it. Right, yeah. No, come on, tell me. Sarah. Leanne. Yeah, I was thinking about it, I couldn't say it myself. Yeah. Leanne Gay. Yeah. So we've been chatted before and I thought I'd got it right. It's very. Leanna Gay. That's it, yeah. Yeah. See the preparation I go through for the show. Liana Gay. That's right, yes. Yep, you got it. Leonardo. Leonardo. Don't worry about it, Leonago. Everyone gets it wrong. I'm doing this intentionally so people remember how to pronounce your name. Did you see what I did there? Yeah, yeah. It's so professional. It's just to make sure that people, you know, I want to drill it into them. Now, you have written a book called Ticking Off Breast Cancer. Yes, I have, yes. And it's a fantastic book that is doing quite rightly, so very well in the charts. Thank you. And at the time of this interview, it's just been shortlisted for. Would you like to tell us what it's been shortlisted for the People's Book Prize and it's also number one in the Amazon charts for the breast cancer genre. Or is it just cancer genre? Breast cancer? Yeah. Not today, I don't think. I haven't checked today, but it was a week or so ago. Can you imagine if you checked every single day? I mean, the book's been out a while now. When was it released? End of September, in time for October, which was Breast Cancer Cancer Awareness Month last year. And it's quite a unique book. Rather than a. It's kind of a cross between a tick off list and a memoir. That's right, yes. And it's. I was quite shocked at just how much you managed to cover. It's unique and helpful for anybody. It's not. I mean, I haven't had cancer. I have some friends who've had breast cancer. But I found this just. It was such a helpful resource for anybody that's dealing with any kind of illness, really. Yeah, I think it is, yeah. But it also helps people to understand if you're going through it, you know, it's got a fantastic tick off list. Which women? Yep. We all love a list, don't we? We do. I've got A list for today? Yeah. But also to help other people who want to support people who are going through cancer or specifically breast canc. Congratulations. It's fantastic. Thank you. Thanks very much. Well, thank you for coming into the studio. It's lovely to be here. Leanna Gay got it right again. I did, yes. I'm gonna test the producer in a minute as well. In the next section. You're gonna have to remember that. Can you do that? You good? Yep. Thumbs up. We've got it. Now tell us a little bit why about why you decided to write this book. I was diagnosed with breast cancer back in October 2016 and I was 42 at the time. Busy mum, two children. They were nine and 11 at the time. I was working four days a week in London, lived just outside of London, so commuting in life was busy like every other 30, 40 year old mum. We all have our massive to do lists and we're all really busy. So having breast cancer was a real. Not only was it a shock, but it was also really hard to fit breast cancer into my life because you're so busy. Anyway, every minute of the day is taken up and when you have breast cancer, you have so many other things on your plate, like hospital appointments, treatment. Just having the treatment is time consuming. You could be in hospital for a whole day and then you've got all the side effects to deal with which wipe you out for days, weeks on end. It's a hugely inconvenient. It is inconvenient. And I know that may sound as if you perhaps putting it down a bit in terms of, you know, seriousness, but when you're at that age and you're the one running the house, primary caregiver, it's really, really difficult to keep going. So anyway, when I was going through treatment, I had to make loads of to do lists to keep on top of everything. I had to do some research into, you know, what to take to hospital, all these sort of practical things. And at the end of treatment I set up a website which was practical based with these lists and I found writing about it really therapeutic and then started writing about my own personal experience and which one thing led to another. It ended up as a book and I took in also writing about my experience and like you say, the memoir side of it, I found it would work really well if I would put these checklists in at the end of each chapter to help everyone else. So it kind of came about in answer to your question. It came about in a bit of a roundabout way, partly As a sort of a self help. It was therapeutic. And also it resulted from my own checklists that I'd created in order to help me get through that time of my life, but also because I wanted to pay forward all the kindness I received, do something for other people who are going through it and try and help other people who are in my position. That is what a good book is about, though. It's about sharing something and hoping that it can reach somebody and help somebody else. That's exactly what I hope for. Yes. And you've got quite good response from other people. People actually get in touch quite a lot about. Yes, they do. Yeah, they do. And it's interesting because it was. It's not just about the to do list about things to remind yourself to do. Because also, like you say yourself, you didn't have time to squeeze in breast cancer. But now other people that possibly have to go through it, if they have, they have this, what this is essentially a manual. They can go, I can just read Sara's book and it'll go, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And it's like, well, that's something else I don't have to think about. I'd have never thought to take that. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. And if you can make this ride a little bit easier for somebody else or likewise somebody who's going, a friend who's going through it, and they go, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. Read the book. Because you don't just say what somebody who's going through it has to do. You say what other people who are helping should be doing or could be doing. Exactly, exactly. But you have this kind of empathy that it's like not everybody wants to do it this way. But this is my suggestion. It's not thrown down anyone's throat. It's not like I'm saying this is the way it is a suggestion. It is helpful. And one of the sections that do you know when you read something in a book and you have to stop for a bit and just kind of digest it a little bit, was your section on the different kind of friends you come across when you're going through this. There were those that have to separate themselves because they don't know what to do. Yeah. And people who are sometimes kind of a little bit embarrassed that they don't spend much time with you and just because you're going through this, should they then try and contact you? There are those that maybe they've had to deal with something similar to somebody else and it scares the hell out of them and they retreat. And it's not out of nastiness. No, exactly. Exactly. There are those that drain you. Yeah. Cause a lot. I've read a lot of books where people are talking about their cancer journey, where half the journey is trying to make other people feel comfortable around the fact that you are in a really horrible situation. There is a bit of that in going through cancer, definitely. But it's nice that you kind of explain these different friendships and these situations. Explain they're all okay, but just recognise which one you are. That's exactly it. I wanted to point out that some of my friends, my friends were also different. There was the practical friend and then the friend who provided the emotional support and then someone who didn't want to come around a lot because her mum had died from breast cancer a few years earlier. And I recognized that everyone was different. But what they all did was they did the best that they could in that which suited them and me. So I've got a really, really good friend who is probably my oldest friend, one of my oldest friends. And she was really helpful on the practical side of things. She would drive my children to and from school, have them at weekends, pick them up from sports matches, all that sort of thing, bring food round, really practical based help. And I've known her for such a long time. And she did say to me at one point, she says, you do realize, Sarah, I'm not your emotional friend. I'm not the person you can go to to talk about the emotional side of this. And I guess I knew that anyway. We'd never actually vocalized that between us before. But actually what was interesting was her saying it. And I knew it anyway. And I wasn't in any way upset by it because I had other friends who were my emotional support, my crutch. But the fact that she actually took the guts to explain that so that you weren't worried I think is golden. Isn't that amazing? A lot of people wouldn't do that. And there are some friends. And you know what? I've been that friend Sometimes, depending on the situation, whether it's miscarriage or divorce or whatever, Where I've been that friend, where I've gone, so many people are trying to kind of overwhelm you. And I've taken a step back because I'm like, oh, wow, I can't be another person that they have to deal with. And so I sometimes, you know, I'll send a message saying, listen, I am here I know, there's a lot of people trying to take up your space right now, but I'm here whenever you want me. But I'm not going to encroach on your space because I feel like you're dealing, you're kind of warding off a lot of other people as it is. So we're just trying to be nice. That's one of the friends in there as well. Exactly. Yeah. But I think as the horrific things that happen to us in life, they also make us. And there's something. I'm a big believer in positive attribution. And what you went through was horrific. But you know what you found out who your friends were, who you could rely on, who had your best interests at heart, whether that was keeping their distance or not. Absolutely. And that's priceless. It really is. It definitely is. Yeah. And there are so many people that have gone through disease, divorce, loss, and they're horrible things to go through, but just they do enable them to find out a little bit more about who they are, who they have around them and whether it's the opportunity to get a good old clear out as well. That's right, yeah. But I must say I thought that section incredibly powerful. Thank you and you're welcome. But it's not just a book about helping people deal with breast cancer. It's a book about just helping people deal with life and helping other people in general as well. There are so many different sections of this book that I want to talk about. We've already come to the end of our first section. It just races through. We'll be back in a couple of minutes. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. 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We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org you're listening to women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadio station. That's Women's Radio STN or Facebook Women's radio station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to get booked. I'm Hazel Butterfield and joining me in this studio today I have Sarah Liana Gay. Nailed it. We are talking about Sarah's book ticking off breast cancer. And it's not just a book. You have the website as well, ticking off breast cancer. Yes, Yep. And on here you offer resources, the to do list. Yeah. And you have guests guest posts on there as well. Yeah, It's a real community for women. It's also for men who have breast cancer, but because of the people who contribute to it and myself being mostly female, I think there's more of a female angle to It. Yeah, there's a lot of tick lists on there, printable checklists for what to take to chemotherapy, what to take to surgery, that sort of thing. There's a lot of resources there, links to brilliant support resources out there, websites, charities, organisations, anyone that's providing something that might help someone who's going through cancer. And also, like you say, yeah, guest blogs from people who are going through breast cancer themselves or if they've. They finish treatment, or also some professionals who are helping people in that area. So we've just got a Q and a blog post from one of the breast cancer now helpline nurses going up in a few weeks. So it's a real mix of information and advice for someone going through breast cancer treatment. So make sure you go and check out that website ticking off breast cancer. How often are there new blogs that are going up? Every week. Every week. Wow, you must have a lot of people. I have got a backlog of blogs to get up on there. Lots of people get in touch. I'm a huge advocate for using writing as a therapy. It's so cathartic, it really is. And having written the book and gone through that process, I realized how important that was for me to get everything out of my system and to process it and accept what had happened. So I'm constantly talking about that and how writing can help people and encouraging people to write. And as part of that, I say to people across social media and also on the website and also events that I go to, if you have something you want to write about in relation to your experience, to help yourself write it. And then if you want to share that with other people, that's great, send it to me, I'll pop it on the website. You don't have to share with other people because some people want to keep it personal. It's a private thing, fair enough. But there are some people who think, well, actually, I've written that all out now. That's made me feel better. Maybe that would help someone who's going through a similar thing if they were to read that they don't have a platform to put it on, they're not bloggers or have their own websites. So that's where my website comes in. But that is. This is one of the main things. One of the most powerful elements of writing is that we live in this society where we're all overwhelmed and there's so much going on that sometimes we just can't order our thoughts. And the process of writing helps us order those thoughts. And whether as you Say you want to share that or not. You know, it's up to the individual. But it's. I would always encourage anybody who just, you know, you don't have to write because you want somebody else to read it. You're absolutely right there. Yes, it can just be for yourself. But keeping in mind, I mean, I'm sure there's. All of the blogs you put up there are absolutely fantastic, but are there any. Is there one particular blog that you've put up there recently that you've just gone, wow, I'm so happy that somebody's shared this with me? It's. I think every single blog that someone sends me that I read, that I put onto the website, I have that sort of feeling about. Because people are writing about their innermost feelings and their innermost thoughts and about their. The way that they dealt with and went through a traumatic experience. And so to get something sent to me in the first place, I think is such a huge step for somebody. And then, first of all, they're sharing with me, that's a huge step. But the fact that they then want to put it out on a platform which is read by thousands of people is an enormous step. And so I get goosebumps because people are actually doing that. There are some. I have had blog posts on all sorts of subjects. Some are harder to read than others because they are. I had one from a lady who actually remained anonymous about how she had found out that she had breast cancer the day after she found out she was pregnant. And that just was a really hard read. What went through, what she went through. And then I had another one recently by a woman who, again, she wants to remain anonymous, and she's in her 50s and she just had such a terrible time with it, as everyone does, and she just literally wrote something. And it's hard to describe. It's almost in a style of a poem. It just lines. Every line was about how she felt. And it was so powerful. It's not gone up on the blog yet. It's going to go up in the next few weeks. It was just so incredibly powerful because it was so simple. And there are some that really, really touch you in that way. And there are others which are more helpful. So someone who's written about how they struggle with their mental health, which is also a really big topic in this situation, and they've gone on to give some tips about things that they've learned during their treatment and recovery about how to deal with mental health, and they're passing those on. So there's such a mix. But every single blog post that I get, I'm so grateful to them for writing it and for wanting to share it. How do you cope with managing this you've gone through? Do we like the term battle? No, we don't. We don't, do we? No. Seem to remember that it's not a battle because it's, you know, it's not two sides going to war, it's your body letting you down. And then you're relying on medicine to treat what's going wrong in your body. But not everyone can respond to it, and not every type of cancer is treatable. There aren't the drugs. So, yeah, battle is not a term that a lot of people within the cancer community can relate to. It's more of a term that the media like when they talk about it. But I think when you're going through it, you feel it's not quite the right one. It's. Yeah, it's incorrect motive. It is. You can see why the media is. Great headline, isn't it? Losing the battles. But I think actually, for those going through it, you're not in control of what your body does. You're not in control of that tumor growing in the first place, and you're not in control of where it grows. Paradoxically, though, I did read a memoir, ridiculously funny memoir, about Raz Shaw, and it was basically, he's got a terrible sense of humor, brilliant in so many ways. But he. He kind of talked about it in relation to how he constantly had to appease other people and everything. But what he did do is he said that, as you said, you don't have control over your own body. He decided that the way that he could control what was happening to him was when he had, I think he counted something like 122 ulcers in his mouth. And he's like, oh, cancer. You think that you can put me through hell? I can put myself through more hell than you ever can. I am in control of how bad I feel. And. And he put a salt and vinegar crisp in his mouth and he went, yeah, I can do better than you. You think you're in charge of my pain? Wow. And it was just a kind of, you know, fingers up. It just goes to show how. And I say this so many times, as you've already mentioned, everybody is so different, and everyone's diagnosis is different. Treatment regimes are different. The way they deal, the side effects they get are different. The way they deal with the side effects are different. And actually, you know, What I would say there are some people who feel that the battle analogy is the right one for them, and that's absolutely fair enough. I think everyone's entitled to talk about it in the way that they feel is right for them. So, yeah, there are some people who are going through cancer who feel that they're in a battle, and that's fair enough. And then there are other people who get upset about it. You know, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. So how do you cope with the fact. I mean, you've got a job. Yes. And you are managing this website where it probably is. So, like an emotional roller coaster because you've got this reminder of what you went through, but people who you are helping. So it's kind of like building you up and bringing you down and dealing with the kids. It is, yeah. I see what you're saying. And I think a lot of people probably think, oh, actually, you know, does doing a website and talking about the book, does it take you back to where you were and does it upset you and do you struggle with that? But I think because I've come on so far and I've moved forward so much now from what happened to me, I can distance myself from it on that level now. And it builds you up. It does, yeah. It's just. Is that. Is that idea of helping other people as well? Yeah, just. It's great for the soul. It really is. Yeah. And, you know, I was working four days a week before I had cancer, and then, like I said, I had a busy life. Kids running the home, everything. We all do. No time for anything else. But one of the things that's come out of this experience is that I've dropped my working days to two days a week now. So I've got time now to do something like this. And the, you know, the feelings that you get from doing something to help others is so good, you know. Yeah. That's a selfish thing to say, but you just. No, it's not. I've been through something really awful. I could go back to my life as it was before, forget it all happened. Yes, I could do that. But no, I don't want to do that because I want to use what I've been through to help other people who are going through it and to make it easier for them if I can. And it is a part of you. And also it just helps you prioritise as well how you want to lead your life, because. Absolutely, it shakes up. It really does. Yeah. We're going to go over to our next break. Halfway through the show already. We will be back in just a couple of minutes. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station Supporting women's well being Women's Radio Station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. Hi everyone and welcome to the Femaling Show. I am your host Nicole Goodman and I am a women's identity expert and coach. As women, we fall into different phases of identity through our adult life and during these, our challenges can look pretty similar. 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For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Welcome back to today's Get Booked show here at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being. And today we are focusing on the book Ticking Off Breast Cancer. We have the author in the studio. We've been chatting away talking about the book and about the website, which is a fantastic resource ticking off breast cancer. For people that want to get involved and have a look about what this resource is about, please go and check it out. And also all the links to Twitter and Instagram are on there. Twitter is tickoffcancer and Instagram is Tikinoff Breast Cancer. And we have Sara in the studio. Been chatting away. Yeah. And a couple of things I want to ask you about. I know the book was released in September, but it's, it's doing so incredibly well and you're getting such a fabulous response. Yeah. What has been the best moment since releasing the book? Relating to the book, there's two. So releasing the book was really nerve wracking, actually. I bet you know it's not a book that has been burning inside me that I've been dying to write and then finally I've written it and it's out there. It came about from a rather unpleasant situation and so, and it was, and it's really personal and I'm not an extrovert by any means. So it was a really big deal for me to publish it and I was really, really, really nervous about it. And then the fact that it was, was at and I thought, oh no, I'm going, everyone's going to read it now. About my innermost thoughts of when I was going through this terrible time and I was for quite a long time after it was published, I was still quite nervous about the whole thing. And also the thought about, oh, is anyone going to like it? Are people going to read it? What are they going to think? Are they going to judge me? You know, the whole, the whole thing was very nerve wracking. And so I think when it was published I didn't really have that euphoria that a lot of authors have, which is, wow, I've written a book and it's out there now and hooray. And this is great. I was a little bit nervous about the whole thing. So gradually over time I have had People get in touch, they said they've read it, they've sent lovely messages and it's gradually, over time, it's really built up my confidence in the book and what it's doing. And I think there are two things that you mentioned earlier which have really reiterated to me how I've done the right thing. And the first was the fact that it's been shortlisted for the People's Book Prize, which is. I'm so chuffed by that because it just means that it's recognised as being a worthwhile book and it's out there and it's helping people. And that has. That's just really reiterated to me that I did the right thing and people can vote for that online until the 15th of February. So you just Google People's Book Prize and vote for ticking off breast cancer on there. And then the second thing is seeing it at number one in the Amazon breast cancer charts. I mean, the books that you can buy on Amazon about breast cancer, there are so many fantastic resources. It's not just focused on breast cancer in that chart, but, you know, cancer in general, nutrition during cancer, cancer checklists from, you know, various different sources and to actually, you know, get there to number one was. I didn't know. I still don't know what to say about that because I was just so chuffed by that. Did you treat yourself? No, I didn't. I didn't. I was just. I think I was still in shock that. Oh, gosh, it's actually. People are buying it and it's there at number one today. I can't believe you didn't go out and like, hubs and go, come on, honey. Yeah, it's a good idea. Maybe I'll do that now, belatedly. But, yeah, that was lovely. I was just so thrilled to see that it is there and that it's doing well and it means that people are buying it and it's helping them. Do you know one of the real reasons why people are buying it and relating to it? How's that? It's honest. Yeah, it is. It's totally honest. It's. You haven't hidden away, as you said, from some of the tricky. And you actually could tell when you were writing it that you. You kind of felt a little bit, kind of uncomfortable about it, but you did it anyway. Some of them, yeah, because it was important and people relate to people being genuine and honest, which is why people get angry with certain other memoir books, especially of people in the public eye who are just. You are so full of it. It's really. It's interesting that you say that because when I was toying up the idea of. Oh, it was all, you know, there was the possibility of it being published. It was all kind of written. And I had talked to someone about it being published and I wasn't sure about it. And I got in touch with a couple of people who I knew had had breast cancer and written books that had been published. And I got in touch with. Through social media and I said, how did you. And I've read both the books, they're both amazing. I said, how did you get the guts to go ahead and publish your books? Because they're really personal and they're about a terrible experience you've been through. And, you know, I was trying to. I was trying to build up the courage to do it myself, and I still wasn't sure. And they both said to me independently that they could do it because they'd been honest and they felt that no matter what happened with the books, they have put out an honest account of what had happened to them. And so you mentioning that now about the honest side of it is really interesting. And I think that's going back to the website as well and the blog posts that people write there. Everything is just. It's raw and it's honest. Exactly what someone has been through. And they're not twisting it or turning it or setting an agenda or anything. It's just pure honesty. And yeah, you're absolutely right. And it is quite unique in the way that it can help. So it's not just for somebody who's going through it. It's, you know, for example, I had a friend who was struggling with how to help a certain family member, and I said, read the book. It will help you. Because, you know, maybe if they're panic, panicking about what they're supposed to be doing, give them the to do list. Or maybe if you don't, if they think they've got it all covered and you just feel lost and you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, read the book. It tells you really good suggestions of what can work. And it's not like there's 10 things on the list and you say, do those 10 things. They can go, three of those I can do. Exactly. That's not really me, that fourth one. Oh, but so and so could do the seventh. Oh, brilliant. Actually, I can be quite useful. Never even thought to bring those bits and pieces. It's. People feel kind of hopeless. They do. And actually Part of the aim of the book has always been to help friends and family of someone who's going through it. It's not just for patients. And when I wrote it, I got a couple of friends and my sister to read it through before I sort of pursued it because I thought, well, let's get some input. You know, it might be really rubbish, it might not be helpful at all. And one of my friends, her sister had had breast cancer maybe five years or so before I did it, did have it, she read it and my sister read it and they both said to me, sarah, I wish we'd had this book when you were going through it. In particular, my sister, because we never had a close family member or friend go through it. And my sister, she did her best when she read this and she said, well, you know, I wish I'd had that. I would have done things differently, would have known to do this or not to do that or say this and not say that. And that's what then gave me the, you know, the insight into. Actually, this book isn't just for people going through it. It's for people who have friends, family, sisters, mothers, whoever, going through it. And the feedback I've had as well has been really interesting from people who've read it that don't have breast cancer. So I've had people read it who don't know anyone who's got cancer. They're not reading it because they're going to help someone in particular. They're reading it because I need to tell somebody. Exactly. And they've got in touch and they've said, you know, really enjoyed the book. And I now know that as. And when someone who's close to me is diagnosed with cancer, I'm going to be in a much better place to help them. And, you know, I've popped the book on the bookshelf ready almost, because, you know, sadly, statistics are that they will know someone who goes through it, not necessarily breast cancer, that, you know, could be other types of cancer. And, you know, I've had people who've read the book and say, I've just passed it on to my brother or sister or whoever, because there's so much in there that I want them to know that I can't tell them myself. But I want them to read the book because basically you're describing exactly what I'm going through and that's my way of telling them what I'm going through. So I'm really pleased that people are reading it as a way of helping and it's helping combat, you know, the loneliness of going through something because it means that somebody can actually relate to it a little bit better. And you know what? The book itself is a book on human nature. Yes. So that's relatable to absolutely anybody out there. Is there any, what would you say would be one of your favourite books out there along the same lines? Oh, gosh. I've read a number of breast cancer books by people that I've connected with on social media and there's some really good ones out there. There's Tea and Chemo by Jackie Buxton, Dear Cancer Love Victoria by Victoria Darbyshire. They're two really good ones. There's one by Alice May Purkis Life Lemons and Melons I think it's called. Oh, wow, that's a really good one. And Love and Remission is also a particular favourite. They're by women who have been through breast cancer and women of different ages and different issues that have come up. So a couple of those deal with the mental health issues that arise as a result of a cancer diagnosis. And we are all different and we are exactly. Different personalities, different circumstances. Absolutely. And what I would say is if people are reading, looking for a book to read about going through breast cancer or cancer, don't just stick with one, read a few. If you're open minded to read about it, you should definitely read more than one and get a viewpoint from a variety of different people. And also one of the joys of reading is it sometimes takes our mind off something else or it gives us something to relate to. So sometimes we overthink and you know, a book can kind of put your head somewhere else for a little bit. We're going to go over to our last ad break and we will be back in a couple of minutes. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie May is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. 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Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover and mental health advocate and you can listen to my show get booked here at Women's Radio station daily at 5am and 5pm throughout my shows we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chapter authors, publishers and book enthusiasts, all with a theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch@presenterswomensradiostation.com join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the Executive Director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@media mattersforwomen.org you're listening to Women's radio stations supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter womensradiostation, that's Womens Radio STN or Facebook. Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs, We are on our final section of today's Get Booked here at Women's Radio Station all ready. We have Sara in the studio. We've been chatting about her book Ticking off Breast Cancer. We've been covering so many different areas. Lots of other people's books that you've recommended. What I would like to talk about now is who in the public eye. Sorry, do you completely just think, wow, you are knocking it out the park. Whether it's to do with, you know, a cancer journey or just somebody who you just think, wow, that's a difficult question. There's so many people, isn't there, that you could think of. You can have two if you want. I think the person that springs to mind immediately is Fearne Cotton, because I think she's wonderful. And I really only sort of tapped into her when I was coming out of my breast cancer experience and I was going through a variety of mental health issues, anxiety, panic attacks and so on, which is very common. And most people who have cancer do experience that side of things. Because she's done such a lot of work in the mental health arena for people. She's not just that sort of bubbly radio, TV presenter anymore, actually. There's a lot more depth and there's a lot more to her and what she does. So she's got those books out to help people with mental Happy, Calm, Quiet. And the podcast. The podcast, which is fantastic. And I really love podcasts, actually. I've really got into them in the last couple of years and I'm always listening to a podcast now. And her podcasts are brilliant. And she does. She also has her Happy Festival as well. And I haven't been. I'd love to go, but I think she's just doing so much in raising awareness for mental health issues, but at the same time that they don't define you and that anyone can have them. Anyone who on the outside looks as if they are dealing with everything and they're coping and that they are perfectly happy, actually, you don't know what's going on behind those eyes. And she's just raising awareness that it's perfectly normal to feel like this and doing some things to help people. I think she's great, actually. She is fantastic. And she's so in the public eye that sometimes when you are that much in the public eye, there's a certain level of information that the public demands. And I remember I do follow her on Instagram, as does Path the uk, and I remember her saying something. She didn't need to impart this information, but she did out of, you know, honesty and just. And she basically said to all those people, all the media that are saying that me and my husband are having a terrible time and we don't even sleep in the same bed. First of all, he helps me with a lot of the issues I have. We quite often don't sleep in the same bed because I have anxiety and when I have negative thought patterns, I keep him awake. And likewise, if he had the same issue, I'd hope he'd go into a different bedroom so that we can both get decent, nice sleep. But sometimes I need to be in my own space. Please don't put stuff out there that's going to upset my children. Yes, we do sleep in separate rooms sometimes because I really suffer with depression and black moments and I need to be on my own, or sometimes I just need to work through these negative thought patterns and not either put it on him or just sit in the dark without waking somebody or panicking him or whatever. And I just thought, you know what? You didn't have to tell people that. But it was raw, it was real. People see you looking glamorous, they see you looking no makeup in, you know, rubbishy yoga clothes and whatever. It's just. It's a bit of everything. It is varied and it is real. And I thought, you know what? I like that it's not where we are madly in love. It's like, no, I really struggle. I struggle with, you know, being overwhelmed and everything. And I have to take myself out because sometimes we do. And it is okay. It's going back to that honesty point, isn't it, that we mentioned earlier that I think someone who is in the public eye to come across as so honest just makes you want to follow them and listen to what they have to say. And that's why it's such a. It's such a tough year. But, I mean, she literally can just put anything on Instagram and, you know, within. Within a minute. It's got like 56,000 likes or whatever. But, yeah, honesty's key. She's great. I really do. Did you stick with the one person or did you want to go for the second? I suppose the other person, I. I enjoy listening to what he has to say. And I've read not all of his books is Matt Haig. And again, this is going to the mental health issues because honesty, because, you know, we do. Before I had breast cancer, I was just a regular person, and I had a little bit of anxiety here and there and worries and everything else, but, you know, oh, my goodness, once I finished treatment, it all just went, you know, inside out, back to front, upside down. Everything just went a bit wrong. And I really struggled for, you know, a few months. I read his book and it really was amazing. And I just think he's always got something sensible and grounding to say about things that are going on in the world, actually. And again, a very honest person who will talk about his own experience. I follow him on Twitter. Yeah, he's very interesting to follow on Twitter. Yeah. And I actually value what he's got to say as well. And he's also. He's been to ridiculous depths. Yes. And so it's now a case of he's just living his true self, which is quite empowering as well. I absolutely agree. Yeah. Well, on that kind of level, what three tips on well being? I think general well being, I think. Gosh, there's so much to suggest here. I think the first one is just to slow down. That's so hard for everybody to do. That was a blog I wrote about three weeks ago. How do we slow down? I've written one as well. I wrote one for an Irish cancer magazine called Happy Magazine just before Christmas, the Art of Going Slow. And I think that just speaks to everybody. You know, one of the things that people have picked up in my book was the section about how us women have got so much on our plates and we have to do so much. And I know men do have equally as much, but being a woman, I'm talking from a female point of view. You know, people of my age in particular, we've got kids, we've got parents often, so we're sort of juggling the two, working, trying to exercise. We've got just so much on our to do lists and we don't ever stop dealing with our friends, dealing with, enjoying dealing with our friends. But you've got the school friends because you've got to keep in touch with them as well to know what your kids are up to. It's just. It's kind of constant, it's ending. You can't run out of Loo Roll or Sellotape. And it seems ridiculous on that to do list, doesn't it? Like, get Lou Rel. I'm looking at all the things. But you've got to write it down, otherwise you forget, don't you? Yeah, but it seems like it looks like ridiculous things to have on your to do list, and they're not high on importance, but you know what? They kind of are. Because you don't want to run out. No, exactly. And it's all down, you know, often it is down to whoever it is. Down to whether it's the mother, the father, whoever in the family. You know, we're all very, very busy people. And I just think that people need to slow down. You need to live in the moment as well, enjoy the present, don't rush ahead. And also be patient as well. So I think that sometimes, if you do have an illness like, okay, you've got a cold. There's a lot of colds going around at the moment. A lot of chest infections. I have one before Christmas and my kids have both had it, my husband's had it. I think the natural reaction is, oh, no, I've got this chest infection, it's cold. I feel terrible, I feel awful. But I've got so much to do, I can't stop. I've just got to keep battling on. That's probably an appropriate use of the term battle. Got to keep going, got to keep going. And by doing that, we're not helping anyone, are we? We're not helping ourselves to get better. So I think we just have to have a bit more patience in life generally. Sometimes, you know, take a step back, say, actually, you know, I can't do anything today. I just need to rest, be patient with myself, trust my body to recover and to recuperate and get well again. And, you know, that is on a huge scale when it comes to something like cancer treatment. You think, oh, finish treatment, maybe a couple of months rest and then I'll be back, you know, back in the way of life that I was before I had cancer. But no, it takes a lot longer than that. So patience is something I always say to people when they're coming out towards the end of their treatment. We're always in such a rush to get to the next stage, aren't we? Yeah, Just, you know, don't rush yourself. Let your body recover at its own pace. And do you have a third one? I think in terms of, well, being exercise, that's my third one. Whatever it is, if it's hoovering, if that's your exercise for the day, go for a little walk, getting outside, fresh air, nature, getting a bit of exercise in, it's so good for you. It really is, at whatever stage of life you are. And also, you know, no matter what your state of health is, it's going to improve it. So definitely exercise. And I mean, I'm a big believer in exercise. I don't really seem to keep on feeling like I don't have the time to do it. You never regret that bit of exercise that you do do. And it's like it's a spiral where you need the energy. So you either eat food to give you the energy, but then you end up putting on weight because you don't. It's, you know, there's trying to find a balance in life. There are so many studies out there which talk about the importance of exercise and preventing cancer. So for me, that is a big part of my everyday life. Now, I didn't exercise that much because working four days a week, you can't fit it in. But now we've got a dog. Now I'm out walking every day with the dog. I love it. It's about prioritising. It is, yeah. You can't do wrong with a dog. I love a dog. I'm gonna go, dog's at home going, mum, hurry up. I really want to go out. You promise me. Thank you so much for coming into the studio. It's been my pleasure. It's been lovely to come in and chat to you. I've really enjoyed it. You must come back in again. When you write your next book, make sure you go and check out Sarah's book, ticking off Breast Cancer. You can get it from Amazon, you can get it from absolutely anywhere. And there is a link up on my website, hazelputterfield.com on one of my recent book reviews as well. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thank you. Welcome to the women's radio station. Supporting women's well being. Women's radio station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website, womensradiostation.com for more information. Hi, everyone and welcome to the Femaling Show. I am your host, Nicole Goodman, and I am a woman's identity expert and coach. 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