In this eye-opening episode of The Menopause Show, Sue Moxley speaks with Marva Williams, a menopause coaching counselor and product developer who nearly lost her life due to undiagnosed menopause complications. Marva shares her harrowing journey from being repeatedly dismissed by doctors as simply depressed, to collapsing in a doctor’s surgery in May 2019 and nearly dying. What followed was a series of increasingly severe health crises that left her temporarily paralyzed, in excruciating pain, and heavily medicated—all because her body was unable to absorb critical nutrients like magnesium and iron due to undiagnosed gut issues connected to her menopause.
Through this traumatic experience, Marva discovered the crucial link between menopause, gut health, and nutrient absorption. A specialist eventually revealed that her undiagnosed dairy and wheat intolerances were preventing her body from absorbing the supplements she was religiously taking, causing her magnesium to completely deplete and her joints to seize up. Her near-death experience became the catalyst for her mission to help other menopausal women through coaching, counseling, and developing specialized products designed to support women through this critical life transition. This is a powerful testament to the importance of holistic menopause care and the dangers of misdiagnosis.
Main Topics
Marva's perimenopause was initially misdiagnosed as depression by her GP, delaying proper treatment for months
She collapsed and required resuscitation at her doctor's surgery in May 2019 due to dangerously low iron, magnesium, and hemoglobin levels
Despite religiously taking prescribed supplements, her nutrient levels continued to plummet because undiagnosed food intolerances (dairy and wheat) prevented her gut from absorbing nutrients
Severe menopause symptoms included debilitating joint pain and temporary paralysis that confined her to bed and required hospitalization for a week
A hospital specialist's consultation with a professor led to the critical discovery about gut health and food intolerances being the root cause
Marva was discharged on multiple strong pain medications including morphine, tramadol, and Buscopan to manage her symptoms
Her near-death experience became the catalyst for her mission to develop menopause products and become a menopause coaching counselor
Full TranscriptHi, I'm Sue Moxley. This is Women's Radio Station. This is my new show, The Menopause Show, and I have a lovely guest to...▼
Hi, I'm Sue Moxley. This is Women's Radio Station. This is my new show, The Menopause Show, and I have a lovely guest today. Her name is Marva Williams. I'm going to let her introduce herself and tell us all about her and her brand. Hi, Marva. Hi, Sue. Lovely to be with you today. My name's Marva. My name's Marva Williams. I'm a menopause coaching counselor, and I develop products for menopausal women with my clients to help them ease their transition through menopause. I work with perimenopausal women and postmenopausal women. Oh, so are you— have you actually qualified as a menopause counselor or expert? Yes, I have. I have a qualification of the menopause. I coach. And that's what you do? I thought you just had your, your brand, so you go around— what do you do? Go around to people's homes, or— I do, I do one-on-one with people. I also work with private doctors as well in the Kent area because my manufacturing facility where I make all my products is in Kent. So I work with some private doctors who have 3 clinics throughout Kent, sorry, and they pass clients on to me and I work with those clients. Oh, okay. Oh, lovely. So what sort of brought you into— well, I know we all go through it and we've all had the menopause, but what brought you into kind of making it part of your life and work? Well, Did something happen to you? Well, I will say menopause is my mission. And the reason I say menopause is my mission is because in 2019, if I take a step back from the end of 2018, I was not feeling great. I kept going to the doctors and they kept saying I was depressed and I was like, I don't really think I'm depressed, but you know, if that's what they say. And that went on into 2019. Fast forward to May 2019, because I'm always busy, I just kept pushing through. Yeah. And fast forward to May 2019, I went to get some bottles. I've been making skincare for a number of years because I do white label for, for doctors and practitioners, and I'd just gone to get some bottles. I was on my way home back to Reading, and my mum asked me if I could go and pick up a prescription for her. So I've gone to pick up her prescription, and that's probably the only reason why I'm here today talking to you. So when I got to the doctor's surgery, I got into the doctor's surgery, and for me, that was it. I didn't know anything till the doctor was reviving me, saying, you know, I literally— he was saying to me, oh, just wait there, we've got an ambulance coming. I said, no, no, I'm fine, I'm going home. He said, no, you're not. She said, you're going to hospital, we've just had to resuscitate you. And it turned out the doctor's surgery had to clear the doctor's surgery, and they had to resuscitate me because I was turning blue. So if I continued on my journey, because my mum's house was further away, I don't know where I would have been today, whether I'd have crashed the car or what, because I'd literally just passed out. It turned out when I got to the hospital, they ran a load of tests and they said my iron was low, my magnesium was low, and my hemoglobin was low. Nobody mentioned at that point the word menopause to me. I was on drips for 2 days. They let me out of hospital. They said, go and see your doctor in a week. Went back and the doctor said, you're very lucky to be alive. We thought we were going to lose you. Um, to keep taking the magnesium supplements, take iron supplements, you'll be fine. So I didn't think much more of it. So I continued doing what I was doing and fast forward, you know, to a couple of months to August. I— it was a Saturday. Did you feel better in between then with what you was taking or not really? Pardon? Did you feel better between the— not really, not really, not really, not really. I wasn't feeling great, but you know, when you, when you're working and you're busy, I think as women we just kind of push through and put things to the back of our mind. So I just didn't really think much of it and just was doing what the doctor said and kept pushing through. Anyway, it came Saturday, I wasn't feeling very well. The Sunday I was doing an event and I really was feeling unwell, was shivering, my head was hurting, I was aching. I actually thought I was coming down with something, but I'm at an event. I just pushed through to the end of the event. That Sunday evening, when I was meant to drive back home to Reading, I decided to call a friend that lived in Baker Street, and I said, I'm not feeling great, can I just come and stay with you tonight, and, and I'll go home in the morning. Now she says— now I can't even remember, I remember getting there, I remember going to sleep— but she said it was really odd because I got into her apartment and And normally I'm a very chatty person and all I did say, I've got to go, I've just got to lie down. And I was out of it. I fell asleep. So the next morning I remember getting up very early saying, I need to get home to Reading. But I was in so much pain. My back was in pain, my legs were in pain. How I drove down the motorway, I don't know to this day, but I drove down the motorway saying, I need to go home. Yeah. And it's funny when you're in automatic pilot, the only two things was on my mind. I need to get home. Plus I had a friend, an old family friend, it was her 50th birthday and she was having a party that night. And I remember saying, I've just got to get home. So I got home and I remember getting home and I was saying to my mum, I'm not feeling great. So my mum said, oh, so you're not going to go out tonight? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm just going to take a little sleep and I'll go out tonight. Anyway, apparently most of the day I slept. And this is when I know my mum always knows when I'm ill. My mum doesn't let anybody sleep. Sleep on her sofas, but she let me lie on her sofa. So it came to the evening, and because it's an old family friend, my mum said, oh, I won't go, your sister and your dad should go. I said, no, no, I'm not going, I'm not going, um, you guys go, you know, go, don't, don't worry, I'm gonna stay here. So my mum said, don't go upstairs, stay downstairs. So I was like, okay. So I stayed downstairs, and to be honest, all I can remember, I must have conked out for the rest of the evening was when my mum and dad came home and I literally went up to this— up the stairs to bed. The next morning I woke up and I was in a lot of pain. I just can't explain the pain I was in. I was just really, really in a lot of pain. I went to bed and I said, oh, I'll just go to the doctors in the morning, or I'll ring the doctors in the morning. Anyway, the next morning I woke up and I couldn't walk. I couldn't even get out the bed. And I remember I was willing myself to move my legs and I couldn't do anything. So I ran down to my sister, who luckily she was off school because she's a teacher, and I said, 'Maylene, come because— come upstairs because I can't move.' So she's like, 'What do you mean you can't move?' I said, 'I can't move. I can only move my arms and from my top.' So she came upstairs and it was— to be honest, I thought I was paralyzed. I have to be honest, I thought I was paralyzed. Wow. So she came upstairs, and when she was like, Martha, just move, and she was trying to, to move me, and literally I had no feeling. And so she called my mum. So my mum comes up, and they're like, oh my gosh. So the two of them, and you know, I always laugh at this because it's very much only my mum would do such a thing. My mum then, and my sister, we'll have to get her downstairs, get her, you know, tidy, and then call the ambulance. I'm in pain, and I'm thinking Sorry, why don't you just put me out? Pardon? That's the sort of thing my mum would have done. Got to keep up. Really? I'm in pain, I can't move. And yeah, good. Exactly. So the two of them get me down the stairs, which was no mean feat because I was— my mum's house is 3 stories and I was in the attic. Wow. And they got me down the stairs, they gave me like a bed wash. I don't know what you want to call it, because my mum's an ex-nurse anyway. They call the ambulance, the ambulance come for me. Anyway, when the ambulance come, when they were trying to even get me to move, I was in so much pain they ended up having to give me an injection to be able to even move me. So we get to the hospital, and that's where the whole menopause starts being talked about. So we get to the hospital, they run all these tests, and it goes, your magnesium is non-existent in your body. You've got hardly any iron in your body and your hemoglobin's gone down. I said, how can that happen? I've been taking the— and I was religiously taking these supplements. I've been taking the iron, I've been taking the magnesium, and they're like, well, we don't know because it's, it's, it's, it's gone. Literally said the magnesium had gone out of my body and that is what's caused my joints to basically seize up and stop working. Um, and I know people say, you know, magnesium and joints, until something like that happens to you, you don't realize the importance of magnesium, if that makes sense. Oh, that's just— what, what a story. Um, so carry on. So anyway, I get to the hospital, they've run these tests, and they're like, we, you know, we don't understand this. If you've taken all the tablets, we don't understand. So they kept me in, they started putting me on all these drips, and they said a specialist will come and see you, um, tomorrow. By the time they've done all the tests, got me to a ward, it was late afternoon. So this is a whole day, you You know, I love the NHS, but they're not quick. So I spent the whole day in hospital and then to be told a specialist is going to have to see you tomorrow. So, and I don't like hospitals at the best of times. I just want to get out the hospital and they're saying, you're not going anywhere, you're going to have to stay. So when the specialist comes to see me and, you know, we're talking and they're going through my records and stuff, they said, we're going to send you for an MRI. They were sending me for all these tests. And then he said, ask me my age.. And then he said, oh, you could be perimenopausal. This could be the reason why you're depleting. But if you're taking the tablets and stuff, don't understand why, you know, you're not, you know, you haven't got more magnesium in your body. Yeah. Anyway, luckily he spoke to a professor and basically he said to me, do you have any intolerances? And I said, yeah, I have a dairy intolerance and I have a wheat intolerance. And he said, ah, that's what the problem is, because if you've got any intolerances, that's your gut. Basically. And although I was taking the supplements, my gut health is technically not good, which means I could never absorb enough nutrients from the supplements I was actually taking. I thought you was going to say that, actually, that, yeah, maybe that's been delivered by injection or something. It would have— would it make— well, they got— well, they, they had me on drips at this point. And at that point, because of the amount of pain I was in, and at that point I was getting spasms every, like, minutes as well. They had me on a mixture of tramadol, yeah, Buscopan, morphine, and literally every couple of hours— this is what my life was in the hospital— ibuprofen, just to try and keep the pain under control. Yeah, so I was in the hospital for a week, and they— and when they let me go, they let me go with morphine on a repeat prescription, tramadol on a repeat prescription. Well, anyway, I've been doing work for a number of years for private doctors doing developing products for them and practitioners. And one of the practitioners is Amanda Chow. She's the vice chair of the Acupuncture Society. And she said to me— I was speaking to her and she said to me while I was in hospital, I was— I've never smoked. I actually felt my head was like cotton wool. I couldn't think. I felt like I was on a different planet, to be honest. And she was speaking to me, said, Martha, you're slurring your words. She goes, the best thing for you is when you get out of here, you need to ditch all those those tablets and you need to find a natural way to deal with this because you cannot live on those type of medication for the rest of your life. So there was a lot of things the doctors were asking me, like about post-history, like, you know, has anybody in your family had different things? And I was going, no, nobody's had this in my family. Nobody's had this in my family, you know, as he's going through the questions. So my mum starts piping in, oh yes, I had this, your gran had this, that now I'm hearing the family history of issues. And I'm like, I'm looking at my mum thinking, really, when did that happen? Yeah, couldn't you have told me this 6 months ago or a year ago or 2 years ago? So I was like, I just couldn't believe it, you know. I was like in complete shock. So was magnesium deficient? My mum had iron deficiency, and one of the things that she didn't even realize, um, because I used to eat bags of ice. And when I say bags of ice, I mean people used to think it was like I was weird because I'd go out even to a restaurant and say, could you give me 2 pint glasses of ice? And I would chew through this ice. That is a bit weird, Martha. Well, apparently that shows an iron deficiency. Oh, that apparently is a sign of an iron deficiency. Now I'm 9 years younger— 9 years older than my sister. My sister said to me when we, you know, this was all out. You know, the funny thing is, when I was small, I remember Mum always saying, could you go and get me ice, please? Could you go and get me ice, please? And my mum used to chew on ice. Why? Why was that? Well, I don't— I don't— well, I don't know, but apparently if people that eat a lot of ice, apparently it's, it's a sign of an iron deficiency. I didn't even know that till this all started coming out. Never heard of that ever. No, apparently so. That's what the doctor told me anyway. Yeah. So, and moving on from that, a friend came to see me in hospital. She's one of my best friends. And I'm just, I'm just one of these people. I tell people things. I don't hide things. So I'm telling her and she goes, I don't believe it. You know, I've been having this problem. I've been having that problem. Maybe it's perimenopause. I'm like, when were you having these problems? She goes, oh, I don't like to talk about them. So I was like, you better get to the doctor and tell him, you know, it was just really weird. And all of a sudden I'm in hospital and I'm hearing everybody's issues only because I'm telling them. About my issues. Yeah. So it was like really just weird. And that then made me think when I got out of hospital, I just ditched everything. I stopped taking the tramadol, stopped taking the morphine. So I'm like, who sends people home with morphine? You know, these things, you know, could be addictive. So I started doing my own research and that's when I came across Transdermal Magnesium. And I ordered ingredients in and I started doctoring myself basically to get magnesium into my body quickly. So this is for me very much a labor of love because I needed to get myself better. I needed to work. So for me it was about how do I get myself better? I mean, when I came out of hospital, I could barely walk. Even a simple thing like going to the shower, my mum and sister helped me to go to the toilet, to go to the shower, literally I had to— my mum made a bed up downstairs for me because I couldn't even walk up the stairs. And these are things that, you know, you take for granted. Being able to get out of bed, we take it for granted in the morning because it's not something I've ever thought about. Being able to go to the toilet, being able to go and have a shower, it's not something you think about. It's something you actually physically do, if that makes sense. And all of a sudden I couldn't do these things because my body was literally too weak. And let me, let me just ask you something. So when you come out of the hospital and you stopped all the drugs that they were giving you and you were like, you know, trying to learn yourself, what happened in that period though? Was you— I was in a lot of pain. The only thing I was taking at that time was ibuprofen, but the tramadol and the morphine I came off completely. I was in a lot of pain and I had to Was you still taking magnesium? Oh yes, I was still taking the magnesium and I was still taking the iron supplements. It was just the, the really strong drugs because my— I couldn't think with them. Yeah, there was the morphine and the tramadol was what I stopped taking. Yeah, so that's why I said that. But no, the, the magnesium and the iron I continued taking, and I was trying to find ways of getting more iron and magnesium into my body. Yeah, yeah. So it's with that research I came up with transdermal, which, you know, it is out there, but people don't seem to talk about it enough. Yeah. And even now people don't talk about it enough. I think you're right, Marva. I mean, not only do people not talk about it, but they don't know half of the things that can happen to us. You know, it's like, it's just the stories that I'm hearing are incredible. I mean, that is just Wow, that is just like unbelievable. So how are you now? Now you— now I'm fine. I'm fine. I have no issues at all. And that's what started me on this journey, because when I sorted myself out, then I decided— and I have to be honest, when I first said I was going to do it just before COVID everybody was like, what do you want to do that for? Because I said I'm going to do a menopause brand. And everyone said, oh, what do you want to do that for? And that was like January 2020. And then COVID hit. Yeah. So when COVID hit, I started making alcohol gels for hospitals and various things, and it kind of got pushed to the back. And I thought, whatever. But then, you know, I was talking to women in different things, and I decided that I was going to re-explore it. And that was back in 2022. '21. Yeah. Um, and I— everybody was saying to me, even at that time, I don't think that's a really good idea. And I said, well, I'm going to do it because I think it's going to be of benefit to people. Yeah. And I remember the July, because my birthday's July, and it was my birthday, and I said, I'm going to come up with this brand and I'm going to call it Shush. Yeah. And it's only going to be about breaking the taboo of menopause. And that's what I decided I was going to do. And the funny thing was, I said to to everybody, and it's going to be launched this side before Christmas because I want it launched before Christmas. And I think everybody thought I was mad because I had no logo, no, no bottles, nothing at the time. But I just decided in July I was going to be launching this before Christmas, and we did. I launched it in November 2021. So I was very happy to, to launch because from the— since I've launched the product, I mean, I am a small business. You know, I haven't got investors, but women have bought the product. You know, people rebuy the product. You know, the testimonials coming in are just like— sometimes I sit and look at them, I say, you, you really are helping people. When, you know, when women are talking, telling me about, you know, some of the things that they've been through and, you know, not being listened to, um, and various things. So, you know, my range has been developed out of my issue, and then I've developed the range along the way out of other women's issues that I've been dealing with to make sure that they're supported. And there's even still more stuff that I'm— I have in development that I want to bring out. But for me, if I bring out a product, it has to perform. I've always been about performance. Yeah. Um, and I would say to people, look, I haven't got big marketing budgets, so when I tell people this is going to work, it has to do what I say it's going to do. Yeah, so that I'm very— you don't get people coming back and buying again, is that— I mean, exactly, exactly. To buy a product the first time round, but it's when they buy it the second time round that you know that you've, you know, you've cracked it and that they're— exactly, yeah. And I've always said that, you know, I've always said anybody can sell to anybody one time, but you haven't got a customer until they come back and read. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, your products, I mean, you did kindly send me some and they are gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. In fact, I woke up at 6 o'clock this morning, sprayed the spray on my pillow and then went back to sleep. That's what I tell people to do. Exactly. And I put it on my feet the other night as well, which is strange, but I do know that things go into your feet, don't they? And that's correct. Well, that sleep spray has magnesium in, and I do say people spray it on the soles of the feet, spray it on the pillow, it will get, get you to sleep even quicker. So that— is that the magnesium supplement that you gave me, or, or do you have like another product that has— no, I have magnesium in the sleep spray, right? I incorporate magnesium into the sleep spray, and because I don't use spraying it on yourself, really? Like, not on the pillow? You could spray it on yourself, but I always think it's important to spray it on the pillow because when you're lying on the pillow, you're actually inhaling it and it's working with your olfactory nerve because it's an essential oil. It's not a fragrance oil, so it is actually working for you. Oh, so if you inhale it, you're getting the benefits? You are getting the full benefit because it's an essential oil blend. That I've made up. It's not a fragrance blend. If it's fragrance, or you wouldn't get benefit from it, but because it's an essential oil, it's working with the olfactory nerve. Wow. It's aromatherapy-based. I'm using aromatherapy principles. Yeah, I get that. So do you make it at home? No, I've got my own unit in New Romney in Kent where I make everything because I've been making products for about 10 years, um, for different people. White label. So I've been making products, so I have a background in product making and development. So is the unit one of those places where you go and it's all like— they call it a clean room and stuff? Yes, yeah, yeah, it's a proper manufacturing space, a proper manufacturing facility that I've developed over the years. Wow. So I did start initially from home. Okay, so how many products have you got in your in your line? In my Shush line, at the moment there's about 30 products, and there are going to be some more products, um, coming out. That's amazing. Well done, you. Yeah, so it's, it's, it's very much to tackle an issue. I always take the issue first and work out how to crack the issue. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so, well, that story of, um, how this all came about is Well, it's just unbelievable really, isn't it? That— and it was the menopause that caused your drop in magnesium and iron? Yes, perimenopause. It was— I was in perimenopause at the time because I was still having my menstrual cycle. So I was actually perimenopausal. I'm actually now postmenopausal, but I was perimenopausal at the time. And it was the— it was the drop in all your hormones. That's what caused it, which, which happens with a lot of women. That's why a lot of women get told that they've got depression. It's actually not depression, it's just how your hormones are fighting each other. Because as your estrogen and your progesterone is dropping, and in a lot of cases testosterone is dropping, other nutrients are dropping at the same time. And the protection that those estrogen and progesterone gives you, which is on your bone, which is on, you know, even like women with Alzheimer's, which is why more women get vascular dementia than men. Your brain health, all of that protection is actually dropping. And as I say when I do talks to people, when we say our estrogen and progesterone dropping, some people think it's like a walk down a hill. It's not, it's a fight, because some days your estrogen could be up, some days it can be low, some days your progesterone could be up, some days your progesterone low. That's why sometimes you can have a certain symptom today and then next week you're not having that symptom, but it may come back in a month's time. Yeah, no, I do know that. I do know that hormones fluctuate daily and because I'm on HRT myself, well, I'm on bioidentical hormones. I don't know if you know about those. Yeah, I do. Yeah. You have blood tests, but they do say, you know, you could have a blood test one day and it shows that, you know, your, your estrogen's dropped again or whatever, but the next day it might be completely different. So it's also hard to kind of get the right, the right mix for you, isn't it? Because it fluctuates so much and it's all like a learning curve and seeing what works for you. And, you know, I know so many of my friends, they're trying lots of different things and they're getting other symptoms from the HRT. Exactly. Which are just as bad as the the symptoms, you know, they're getting really bad bloating or, you know, all sorts of things where it's just, you know, it's really hard to find the right answer. The thing is, menopause— I tell women menopause is an individual journey for you. So I work with women that are on HRT, and then I will deal with the lingering symptoms they have. So that's anything that happens after they start taking HRT that is an issue for them. But I also deal with women that can't take HRT for medical reasons and get them sorted out as well. So it's actually that journey is very personal. And I would say to them, you can't— it's not because your friend's got this or done this. You've got to find what works for you because when you look at it, there are actually over 50 menopause symptoms and some of those symptoms we don't take into account properly. And when I say that, it's like something simple, like our hair thinning, that is actually a menopause symptom. Things like itchy skin. And funny enough, from my late 30s, every time I washed my hair, I used to have to— it was like I was itching. Now I know that was actually a perimenopause symptom. I didn't know that. And I'd be like, why is my hair itching so much? My scalp? But it was a perimenopause symptom. You know, some people, ringing of their ears, their tongue burning. There's so many menopause symptoms, but because we don't always understand them, we don't know how to connect the dots. Yeah, I mean, how on earth did women get on in the old days? I just don't know, because they had no help, no education, there was no, you know, medication or whatever. I just, just don't know how. But you know something, I— it's funny enough, because this topic is so of interest to me and I delve into it a lot. If you actually go back, a lot of women— and there are stats on this— a lot of women at a certain age used to commit suicide. Suicides. And I wonder now, was that suicide rate because they were going through perimenopause and menopause and they didn't understand that was going on, if that makes sense? Yeah. Um, and there is a high stat— there is a high level of women that, that, you know, um, that do take their own lives in perimenopause. Oh, well, let me be clear, there's not saying perimenopause. I'm looking at the age groups. Let me be clear on what I'm saying. So there's women that if you actually sit and look at it, they could be in that perimenopause, menopause age group. So I think, were they perimenopausal? And because they wouldn't get— couldn't get the help, or they were told they were depressed and what they were given wasn't helping them, did that lead and contribute to them ending up taking their own life? I don't know that as a fact, and I think a study should be done on this. No, I think you're probably right. Um, I'm prob— you're probably right because You know, I mean, I won't go into my story deeply, but mine was completely different to yours, where I woke up one day and my skin around my private areas just tore, right? Just literally tore. And I was like, what the hell is that? You know, what happened there? It just happened one day. And, and so I went to the doctors. This is the GP. And I said, my skin tore around my vagina and I don't know why. And she said, oh, have you been riding a bike? I said, no, I don't have a bike. And this is a lady doctor. You think she would have— she would have known more. But I said, no, I don't have a bike. I don't ride bikes. And she went, oh, it will heal up. Just be careful. Put some Vaseline on it. And that was it. I was sent away. And then from that day on, my symptoms just got worse and worse and worse, where I ended up having surgery down there to put new skin. I mean, there's all sorts of things I could tell you, Martha, but it was me that found out about everything myself. So that's why I'm passionate about menopause as well, just like you, because when it happens to you, you can't believe these things have happened. Exactly, you, you just can't. It's— and what you— it's not even you can't believe it, it's like, especially when you're not prepared. That's why I've got this thing about— I would say for me it's about breaking the taboo and keeping the conversation going on menopause. I still speak to women and there are certain things they're still embarrassed about. Like, I did a talk last year, um, at John Lewis, um, and Milton Keynes to their staff And I, at the end of it, I always say, you know, are there any questions? And people talk to me, you know, put up their hands and talked about sleep. Then at the end of the session, I've, you know, I'm about to leave and I normally, you know, do mingle a little bit. And I had all these women start coming to me, talking to me about vaginal dryness, and they're talking in hushed tones in my ear. Have you got anything for vaginal dryness? And I'm thinking, okay. So I'm speaking to them and then I've got other women saying, 'Oh, you know, my sex life, my husband's not very happy,' but they talk in hushed tones. So even though there's so much talk about menopause and you're doing a talk in a room, women still don't want to say certain things in that room, but they try and pull you aside and they're whispering in your ear about it. Yeah, no, I think like even me just then mentioning my vagina on radio, it feels— I might not— shouldn't have said that. No, no. It feels odd. It does feel odd and even a little bit embarrassing still, but I just think we have to talk about it. And that's what I'm saying. Yes, I agree. Otherwise, other, other women are not going to know what, what's happening. At least now we are starting to talk about it. They may have a chance of understanding what's going on in their bodies and get help before something bad happens. Exactly. Like, what's that? You are right. We all talk about— people talk about hot flashes and sleeplessness and my bones ache, but they don't like to talk about the vagina out loud. It's not a— and the funny thing is I did some poppers in John Lewis last year, and I remember when I did the first couple, I had men coming to me and they were saying to me, my girlfriend's gone off, you know, and sex, and, you know, is it— have you got anything that could help? And I'm looking at these men thinking, okay. And it's really interesting, and they come in these hushed tones to talk to you, and I'm like, okay. And it's just really interesting how people perceive things. And I was doing some pop-ups in Boots, and the amount of conversations I had— and I remember I brought one guy, because we did a 2-week thing, in Boots. We did one in December and I think one at the end of October. So he must have bought for me at the end of October some stuff and I'd advised him what to buy. His lady wasn't with him and he came back with her in December when we were back in Boots in Bluewater and they would gush, oh, you saved our relationship. And I said, oh, that's really good. And, you know, I can't explain it. That's when I think, you know something, everything I'm going through, it's worth going through it when people tell you you saved their relationship. Yeah, so was she embarrassed to come and ask you, or did she ask him to go along, or did he do that? I don't know, I never asked, to be honest. I mean, he brought— because he was telling me about some issues, and I said, well, try this, do this, try this. And then he came back, but when he came back, she was with him. So I never actually asked if she'd sent him, or, you know, whether he was just passing, because we were in Bluewater, um, which I know is a bit of a destination shopping place for people. Yeah, because I think it would be even harder for a man to approach, to approach, you know, someone like you and ask for advice than— I find men are the more ones, because I've had men talk to me and then drag their girlfriends and wives in who didn't want to talk. I think normally when, when a woman talks to me, she will talk to me about joint pain, yeah, and hot flushes. Yeah. When a man talks to me, he's normally talking to me about the libido. I'm being serious. A man always leads with libido. Yeah. And some of the conversations I've had to listen to, I'm like, I'm so happy I don't know you, because if it was me, I'd feel so embarrassed. Because— but that's what men— no, one of the conversations Exactly. They're not worried about so much the sleep. They're not worried about it, but they are worried about the bedroom. And that's what they want to talk about, the men. And they have no qualms in coming and talking to you about it. That's just— and they actually say, have you got anything? You know, I thought they would be, you know, nervous or embarrassed to come up to you. Well, I find more men come up to me, and then the next thing they bring their wives and say, oh, she said and they bring their wives with. I mean, I've done events like the Country Living Show last year and, you know, Black Hair and Beauty, Kent County Fair. And even when I did Kent County Fair, I had more men dragging their girlfriends and women to us than the women coming to us themselves. And when the men are passing, because I have these banners saying menopause awareness, the men would be going, that's you! And the women would be trying to scuttle off and the men would be dragging them back. And I watch it and I'm like, really? Hmm, not sure. It's to me about men, really. Are they worrying about themselves? That's what I mean. Well, I, as I said, the conversation normally with men sit around the bedroom first. I mean, sometimes, and I have to say, it's not just that. The, the truth, the other thing men are talking about is sleep. Yeah. And, and I don't think they even understand it because they say to me 'Oh, you know, she has the fan on,' and I'm like, 'I think she's having a hot flush,' or, you know, and they equate all of that to sleep, if that makes sense, because you put the fan on, it wakes them up, you know, things like that. So it's disturbing me, it's disturbing them. So I think anything disturbs a man, that's what they're looking for to solve, if that makes sense. Yeah, because they never come with hot flushes, but when I sit and analyze it with them, I said, 'Are you sure she's not having a hot flush in the night?' And that's why 'She puts the fan on, she's too hot.' Yeah. Oh, maybe. Yeah. But from their point of view, she's, you know, they, you know, that, you know, it's too hot in the bedroom. You know, those are things I listen to, and then I kind of, kind of break it down with them. And the other thing I do say to a lot of men, just remember, this is a journey that you're going through, and it's a family thing. And I'm always very big on it's a family thing. So they say, 'But she's doing this and she's having this.' I'm like, 'No, no, no, no.' your family, you're going through it together. You need to discuss and you need to talk about it. And that's the thing. I think it's really important because I think men have a certain view and women have a certain view. And one of my other theories, but as I said, I have never, you know, I've, you know, this is not probably been researched. A lot of people say men have midlife crisis, you know, when they get to their 40s and 50s. After speaking to so many men, I'm starting to wonder, is it a midlife crisis or do they feel rejected? And the only reason I'm saying that is because a lot of men, when they talk to me, they actually say they think she's gone off them, that, you know, they think she doesn't like them anymore. And I'm— and now I kind of analyze it. I say, is that what causes men to look for comfort somewhere else, which leads to a lot of breakdown in marriages at a certain age, which could then be contributed to perimenopause and menopause? Because it's not talked about by women, how are men going to understand? Yes, I, I do know, I'm just gonna write this down because this is a really good, a really good like name for an episode. Um, is it a man's midlife crisis or is it his wife's menopause? Yeah, no, I think it's really— I've been talking about this a lot. Yeah, because I kind of analyze the age groups when we say a man is going through midlife crisis, and if you actually look at those type of age groups It's when a woman— ladies going through the menopause, that they go back to get themselves a sports car because his wife doesn't fancy him anymore. Exactly. And it's just the conversation. So I do have a lot of conversations with men. Surprisingly, I have so many conversations with men. And you know, when I analyze what they're telling me and I look at them, I think, is this— could this be the start of, if you're not careful, the breakdown or the them looking for comfort somewhere else. Yeah. So it's, it's the things that I kind of analyze, but it's very much from speaking to people and people speaking to me, because I, I really do take a lot of time to listen to when men are talking, to what they're saying, just like what women are talking. Um, because I think if you want to keep your relationship and your marriage intact, it has to be a unit. Yeah. And you know, another thing men say to me is, oh, she gets snappy, she, you know, she gets angry for no reason and shouts. And I actually take the time to break down, well, do you think that could be her hormones? So the best thing is when she's snapping, she doesn't really mean it, just let it go over your head, don't react. Yeah. Because she can't help it. Hey, be nice. Yeah, and I do, and I have these conversations with men and I've had enough men come back to me and say, 'Oh, you were so right.' You know, you know, she doesn't, you know, it doesn't end up in a full-scale argument now. So, yes, it's just the hormones. It's going to pass. Do you know what, though? Does it ever pass? Okay, because this sounds really negative and people listening might think, 'Oh God, this is all doom and gloom.' But I feel like I'm still in my menopause 11 years later because I still have to take HRT. And I still get really hot and all of those things, you know. I mean, my husband and I, we do sleep in the same bed, but we've got different duvets. Mm-hmm. Okay, I've got the really like 0.5 tog or something. Yes. And he's a double wrapped over 15 tog, and I just can't understand it. And then I open the window and he'll moan about the window and One of the most common arguments is over the heating, Martha, honestly. But most people— that is most couples, because I hear all the time, and it's finding that way of working out how to compromise. Yeah, well, that makes sense, which a lot of the time means the men need to wrap up more for bed. Yeah, I mean, I always thought it was women that got cold and men were kind of, you know, the tough men, and they can cope with all sorts of things. But with me, it's— I'm always hot, always hot, all the time. I mean, I don't like the hot weather, I don't like a hot bedroom. I like windows open. I'd rather be a little bit chilly in my house than, you know, really hot. But, you know, I think to myself, is my menopause still going on after all these years? But, you know, the funny thing is, and this is another thing, like when I do talks with women, I explain to explain to them, when your estrogen and progesterone's gone, it's gone. It's not coming back. So it's like, even if you look at, you know, um, guidelines in America— not so much in the UK— they say HRT should be taken for life. Yeah, I know over here they sell 10 years, 20 years, but you know, it, you know, it, it— different countries seem to have different guidelines on HRT and a lot of women, when they stop taking HRT, all of a sudden all the symptoms come back full, you know, with full force. So I always tried to come off of it and then had an immediate flare-up downstairs. And I thought, well, I'm going to have to be on this for the rest of my life. And my gynecologist actually said to me, he said, well, what, is that a problem? And I said, no, not really. I said, but I just I suppose I always believed that I was going to be perimenopausal, menopausal, and then it was all going to be okay. But yeah, it isn't. It isn't because you've lost the protection that the estrogen and progesterone gives you in the body. So it can never be all okay. That's why I talk about how, like, women will say to me, yeah, but I'm postmenopausal, so I don't understand why I'm still getting headaches and why I'm still getting joint pain. And I'm— and I say something, but that's going to happen for the rest of your life because the protection that was given that protected your joints, even your skin, that protection is gone. So because that protection's gone, you've got to treat your body in a different way. It's— you've got to maintain it in a different way. And I think that's why what you eat is so important, what you put on your skin is so important. And, you know, I know some people think, oh yeah, she's just trying to sell product. To be honest, I'm, I'm so particular about ingredients, I drive my friends mad. But a few years ago, before I was doing menopause products, I, I came across something, a kakadu plum, this ingredient, and I love it. It's so hard to get the actual raw ingredient in the UK. I mean, I use it for something, I still have to get it in from America. I know there's products with it, but I want the raw ingredient. Ingredients, would you say, are really, really important to feed your skin? You know, I like things like Kakadu plum. It's got a high content, as I said, of vitamin C, more than an orange has. It's also got a high content of vitamin E in there as well. It's just what makes up the Kakadu plum. So for me, it's a powerhouse. I love squalene. I think squalene is an amazing ingredient to use as well. What is— I don't know what that is. Is that squalene? It's a, um, Squalene— well, I, I like the squalene that comes from the plant, um, the olive. Some people use it, can get it from fish, but I'm very— because I'm very into vegan products, so I like the one that comes from the olive. It's an ingredient and it's crushed out. Yeah. Um, and that, that's a really nice ingredient as well, and it really does keep moisture into the skin. I know a lot of people talk about glycerin. I prefer things like squalene to glycerin. That's just my personal preference. Um, I like things like maca berry, which is another superfood but very good for the skin as well. Um, vitamin E, everybody knows about. Pardon? You take food supplements, or do you just— what food do you eat? I'm just interested, just curious. I eat a mixture of food because I'm not vegan, unfortunately. I eat a mixture. I eat meat. I eat a lot of vegetables. Yeah. I eat a lot of salads, and I like to make soups as well. Okay. So I eat a mixture of food. Okay. But then I'm very naughty because I love Italian too much. I like too much pasta. Oh, me too. My favorite food is Italian. Bread. Yes, bread and olive oil with vinaigrette is, you know, what can I do? I'm a foodie. Yeah, me too. I like nice food. That's the thing. Really, really hard, you know, because I, I was always really slim my whole life and never really had to worry about it. It was just natural to me, you know, I could eat and eat and eat and eat and I'd never really put on any weight. And then all of a sudden, at like 50 years old, the weight came on and that was really distressing to me because I'd never had to worry about it. And, you know, even to this day, I struggle with my weight and, and every day wake up and then I go through all that, you know, well, this isn't a good day because I've eaten a cake or I've done this or done that and I struggle with it. And now I blame the menopause for that, to be honest, because that never happened before then, you know. It is all to do with estrogen production loss and the way we digest food as we get older. Because I've put on so much weight over the last few years and I'm not eating as much. So it's not because I'm overeating either. And funny enough, I'm playing with something at the moment. Whether it will come to market this year or next year, I don't know. I'm going to try it again, but I'm working with something with sea moss, which seems to be having a very interesting effect on suppressing the appetite. And sea moss is seaweed, basically. Yeah. And I'm working on, you know, product range with sea moss right now to bring out. Send me a ton over. You could be one of my testers. Do you think, do you actually think that menopause affects our eyesight as well, or do you think that that's just an aging thing? Just, I think menopause does affect our eyesight, and I think, I think if you actually go, eyesight is one of the issues, um, of the protect, you know, of the protection that estrogen and progesterone gives you. Our memory is another thing as well. Yeah, memory. Yeah, memory. That's why we get brain fog. And you'll be surprised the amount of women that have been driving every day that feel they, they're getting more nervous with age with driving. The confidence goes with a lot of women as well. Why, why do you think that is? But a lot about women not wanting to drive when they've had the menopause. I do, I hear that a lot. But that's because of the estrogen and your progesterone going down and the protection they actually gives you. And that's what I'm saying, you know, even, you know, the protection it gives you against, you know, your confidence, your, your, your brain, you know, it's all part of how our brain makeup and how it actually works. So when you've lost that, you're losing quite a lot, and people don't really understand how much we lose as women when our estrogen and progesterone's gone. I'm going to be really controversial here because I think, um, I do think you're a Christian, so am I, but do you think God was a man? I think he was. I'm sorry if I've upset anybody, but I think he was a man. Yeah, because, you know, who did this to women? I don't know. It's really— I always believe women go through a lot more than men do. Yeah, and my mum used to say when I was— when we were small, and I never really understood it, that— what did she say? Men can't bear pain like women bear pain. And it's only as I got older I understood what she meant, you know, because when you're a child you hear that. I was like, if men had to have babies, oh my gosh. Oh, can you imagine? Yeah. I'll tell you a quick story. I won't mention which cousin, but I tell you, I had a cousin and he rang me. It was so hilarious. From the labor ward. And I'm like, shouldn't you be with you, with your wife? Oh, but I just wanted to tell you what's happening. I said, I don't need to know what's happening. I'm like, go with your wife. And she was there and she shouted at him. And I'm like, get off the phone to me. I mean, I'm laughing. And afterwards he was like, I was speaking to Mark because I was so scared. I said, there's no point in ringing me. What are you ringing me for? He's scared, he's hiding in the bed. Well, you see it all the time, don't you, when men faint, you know, they're supposed to be helping and the woman's going through childbirth. I'm not a mother, so I don't know, but I can only imagine what it must be like. And then they faint. I just laugh. I just— I mean, I'm not a mother either, but I'm like, really? I think I'd kill them. I'll probably get out the bed myself, kill them. You're on the phone. Oh, we do sound like we're men bashing a bit, don't we? No, I'm not men bashing. What I'm saying is I think men get more— I think we do. I personally believe we have a lot more to contend with. We do. I definitely think so. And you know, I have a doctor friend, um, who we see quite a lot, and he actually said the other day, he said women do suffer a lot more than men. They do go through so much more than men. He said, but he said, we, um, we do have things to help them. He said, whereas men, they just drop down dead. Yeah, because he said that when men get older and they get, you know, they put their weight on around the middle, middle, yeah, and it all goes around the organs, you know, the heart and all of that. And that's why men, you know, do seem to die more of heart attacks and strokes and things like that, really. Whereas us women, it's just a— well, it goes on forever, doesn't it? It starts with your periods at school and that's painful. And, and then you get pregnant, you have babies, and then, you know, you go through all of that and then you get your menopause. But yeah, I definitely think that people are talking about it more. They are. It's only recently though, don't you think? Like the last couple of years. I think it's— and to me it's, it's very recently. I would say since COVID a lot of people are talking more about mental health, menopause, and everything else. That's my personal perception. Yeah, no, I think you're right. Um, but I— it is definitely, you know, like I, I'm an aesthetician and I've got I have women coming here and we talk about it quite a lot now. I think maybe because the people that come to see me, we're all of a similar age. Yes, yes. I don't really work— like, I don't really work with younger people. It's all kind of, you know, people that are around my age or a little bit younger, and we do end up talking about it a lot, whereas I don't remember ever talking about it when I was— well, before, really. My mum never talked about it. She— I think she just kind of— she said she, she sailed through it and didn't really know much about it. And a lot of women do that as well, don't they? They sail through. They don't— that's correct. I mean, not everybody gets severe menopause symptoms or get any menopause symptoms, but it's for the ones that do. Yes, yes, you're right. I mean, when I— I don't know how much truth there is in this, but when I had it, I had a treatment called the Mona Lisa Touch, which is where you have a laser inserted into your vagina and it stimulates the skin around that area. And it really, really did work. I'm not saying it worked forever. It's something that you have to keep doing, but it did work. And I met the guy that developed a machine. He was Italian. Yeah, I was— I went to a conference because they asked me to speak, which I did because I was really thrilled with, with it. And I went up and gave him a hug, and he said, in Italy, that machine is on their NHS, and every woman can go and have that treatment, whereas in England it's very much only a private thing that you can go and do. And he did actually say to me, through his experience, that he thinks that— I don't know if I should say this either, I don't want to frighten people— he thinks that women that have not had children have a worse menopause. Funny enough, that's what the doctor said to me, actually. Yeah, I mean, I haven't got children, and I remember when he said it to me, I thought, well, he should have told me before, I've had 10. He just looked at me. I was joking, but I was like, should have told me that before I had 10. That's funny. Yeah, because he did say that, and he said because, you know, we were designed to kind of give birth and then everything comes out and it's all refreshed in there, whereas women that haven't had children suffer more. But then I know women that haven't had children and they've not had it either, so who knows. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose it's one of those things. I think the medical profession— and I love them, I have to be honest, I love them— but yeah, depending on who you speak to, you'll get a different analogy from them. Yeah, because I remember saying something to a friend of mine saying, oh, the doctor said I'd have a worse menopause because, you know, I haven't had children. She goes, well, I've got a child and I'm having it quite hard. I was like, okay, well, so I don't know. I said, well, that's what the doctor said. So, you know, even sometimes things you're told can be controversial as well. Yeah, it's obviously very different for everybody, and like you said, there's 50 symptoms. I mean, people always think hot flushes and joint pain, and that's it. They don't really— sleeplessness, those are the top 3. Those 3 things you hear all the time, you don't hear some of the other things like what happened to you, what happened to me, you know. And it annoys me when people just say hot flushes. I think, don't you realize what else it can do? You know, yes, so many more symptoms that are out there. But I think now that like people like you and me raising awareness of the menopause and there's more help out there, there's more options. Knowledge is a really good thing, and hopefully we're going to help people. Look, that's what we're here to do. We're here to impart knowledge, and that's what I tell people. I'm here to impart knowledge. And if I can— and I always said this when I first started— if I can help one person and stop them going through what I went through, yeah, I think that that is— so for me, it's a good job. And I remember when I was really ill and I couldn't walk. And I remember saying, please God, please don't let me be paralyzed, please help me, I will help people. And I remember, you know, it's like people might think it's a thing, but I, you know, it's got to happen to somebody. You know, it's different if you've always had all your— if you've never been able to walk or you've never been able to move, but from one day to the next not being able to move It is really a scary thing. And I remember saying, please God, please God. I remember, I remember praying a lot. Oh, because I actually really believed I was going to be paralyzed, to be quite honest. So you kept your promise to God? I've kept my promise, exactly. I've kept my promise and I'm helping people. But that's what I was like, I, you know, that's really, you know, I always say, if I can help one person, I've done, I've done what I've wanted to do. And I believe I've helped a lot more one, you know, because the amount of people that come back to me and thank me for my help. Oh, that's, that's amazing. Marvelous. So, okay, we are coming to the end of the show now, so if you would mind just telling people your website again so that they know how to get hold of you if they want to buy it, so they want you to— for some information or help, where they can get hold of you. Okay, so my website address is www.shhhmenopausewellness.com. You can get hold of me there. If you send emails, I always answer them. You can also contact me, Marva Williams, on Facebook as well and DM me. I always get back to everybody that contacts me because I believe you've got to support women going through this, this period. And what I've also done, I've set up a special special code, um, that if anybody wants to try the products, they can get a 25% discount off the, off the products. And I've tried to keep the code really simple by using WOMAN'S RADIO. So all you've got to do is put WOMAN'S RADIO, um, before checkout, and it will automatically get you the 25% discount. But if anybody's unsure about any product, if they want to contact me, I'm always happy to, to answer any questions, even if it's what's in it, how can I use it, you know, I have put a lot of information on the website, but you know, there's always something that maybe somebody wants to know. I'm always happy to answer. If I'm not available, one of my team will always answer you. You know, we try to be as responsive as we can. I mean, most Friday nights, it's a running joke now in the office, most Friday nights we spend the night talking to women because for some reason women contact us at length on Friday night. So, you know, we are very responsive. Pardon? I wonder why that is. That's interesting. Maybe— Yeah, I know, Friday night seems to be a really busy night for us that we're answering questions, because I do have a chat open on the website. So if women send it to us, we do try to react as quickly as possible. And Friday night seems to be the biggest night that people respond, you know, that people come to us, and we do answer them. Even if they come to us over the weekend, we will answer to them. So yeah, so their Friday nights when they were younger, they were out clubbing, and now Friday night they're, they're talking to you about their menopause. They're talking to us about menopause, that's right. Well, thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me, I really do appreciate it. Yeah, it's been really lovely to talk to you, very interesting, and I'm definitely using your products at the moment and loving them. And so I'm going to say, say goodbye there. So this is Women's Radio, The Menopause Show, and I'm Sue Moxley. If you follow us on Instagram, it's Women's Radio Station, STN abbreviated. Women's Radio Station on Facebook and YouTube. And thank you all for listening. Bye-bye. Okay, you still there?
