The Menopause Show With Sue Moxley – Tracey Woolley, The Fresh Face Menopause Pillow

Hi, this is Sue Moxley. This is Women's Radio Station. This is The Menopause Show. Remember to follow us on socials, Instagram, Women's Radio Station, STN abbreviated, and also on Facebook and YouTube. Today my guest is fellow Essex girl Tracy Woolley. Hi Tracy. Hello Sue, thanks for having me today. So you have something called the Fresh Faced Pillow. Yeah. Could you tell us a little bit about it? Yeah, so basically, um, the Fresh Faced Pillow is something that I invented, um, around— I've had it in my head for the last 15 years, um, but it actually came to fruition about 4 years ago. Um, didn't take all them many years to make it, did it? Um, it went backwards and forwards with different prototypes for about a year and a half, 2 years. Yeah, it did. But I had the idea in my head for probably 15, 20 years, and then by chance I had the idea in my head, and by chance I found somebody that had manufacturing background as well. That's D.O. Beauty Products in Chelmsford. So we've gone into partnership and my product come to life. And so what actually does it do? What advantages is there with it? So the Fresh Face Pillow is great for menopause because it's got a cooling gel in it. So for all those ladies that get hot sweats in the night, it really— Yeah, hello me! It really moderates the body temperature with the gel, and it is really, really cold, the gel, when you lay on it. It was originally designed as an anti-wrinkle pillow. A lot of people that have got anti-wrinkle pillows think that, oh, I've already got one of those, I've got a silk pillowcase, and— but this is very different. This actually cradles the face and holds the head in position. So basically, it trains you to sleep on your back and holds your head in position. So when we sleep on our side several hours every evening, we obviously are putting a lot of pressure onto our faces, which causes creases in— on the face. When you go into menopause, because we stop producing as much oil, or Obviously we're losing a lot of fibroblasts and the elastin, so the skin becomes much thinner as well. So this is great for ladies that are going through their menopause and they see their, their elastin decreasing, and when they wake up in the morning they get what's called a pillow face. They get lots of lines and wrinkles. This obviously helps for that, and also for the cooling gel. But basically the pillow is— it was devised as an anti-wrinkle pillow. And has lots of other benefits as well. We have lots of people buying it for neck pain because it keeps the back and spine aligned as well. Mm-hmm. And it also has obviously a silk pillowcase as well, but most people do think they've already got a silk pillowcase, they've already got one of those, but this is very, very different. Yeah, I've actually got one and I know, so it's, it's really, it's a really good thing to have. If you're just, just say, explain to me though, if there's a cold gel in it, what happens in the winter. The cooling gel is cool for when you actually lay on it in the winter. It's really, really cold and you do get on it, so you know, it's even colder in the winter. And because obviously, but it cools the body down so that if you're getting in there— most ladies, when you're going through your menopause— I went through my menopause when I was 42. I'm actually 51 now, and there was nothing like that then. Yeah, there's lots of cooling gel things that you can actually buy now, but this is really, really cold. It really, really does help the body to temperature. Sounds amazing. I think like women are gonna love this, they're gonna absolutely love it. So yeah, you had an early menopause? I did, and I had my son at 15. Okay, so I don't know if it was anything to do with that, but I went into my menopause when I was 42. And I know it normally goes by what your parents go by, but my mum was in her 50s, so it wasn't— but I don't know whether my body went into early menopause. I did have a lot of stress at the time. I was running two businesses as well, and possibly because I had Danny so early. But how today there's lots of menopause is huge, and it's brilliant because lots of women can get advice. And I think especially because, and you know, there's lots of celebrities talking about it as well now, like yourself. But I don't think there was any advice when I was going through mine. The only thing that I actually could find at the time, I used to take a lot of sage, okay, as a supplement. I'm not sure that worked, but I actually did buy a magnet that I used to put in my knickers, and that was actually really good. It did actually work. It used to— yeah, you buy them, they're called women's— I think they're women's health magnets. They sell them in Boots, right? But it's a magnet you actually put onto the front of your knickers, so it clips in. So the front is a magnet, so it's on the outside. Yeah, or the inside. Inside, and then it clips on. Oh, okay. I actually stuck myself to my washing machine once. Yeah. So I hope it was on spin cycle. But what it actually does, it's sort of, it's meant to be as if you think of your body being a radiator, so it draws all the heat into the magnet. But they do it, they do actually work. But that was the only sort of help that we had when, you know, 10 years ago, because the menopause wasn't really discussed then, was it? I know it's a really huge subject now, and thank God it is. Yeah, exactly. Because women really suffer. I mean, not everyone suffers, some people just fly through it, but lots of people don't, and we've all just had to sort of get on with it. But now there is a lot of help out there, including your pillow. Yeah, I think the hot flashes are the worst thing. Yeah, because I'm a beauty therapist and I remember I used to be standing in a treatment with literally water just pouring down my back, you know, and it just comes from nowhere. You just feel feel it from the inside out, going from your stomach up to the top of your head, and then you've just got this drain of water just spilling down your back. I know, you know. So yeah, no, men get away with it very lightly. They do, they do. I was in the chemist the other day and there was a lady in front of me that— it's not even funny, but I have to laugh now— and she was in front of me and she's going to me, do you know what, I've just got to get out of here. I'm going, why? She went, I'm just going to get a hot sweat and I've got to get out, I've got to get out. She just run out the shop and she's standing outside. Yeah, we're fanning ourselves. And then she had to get in the queue again. Yeah, poor thing, lost her place in the queue. No, I let her back in because I'm nice like that. But yeah, she literally had to get out of the shop because it was so bad. I mean, they are— yeah, there are other really bad symptoms, but I think women find hot flushes embarrassing as well. Yeah, I think they do. And I think especially with, you know, if you're out, like you say, with that lady, if you're in a public place and you're getting a hot flush, or you could be out for a nice meal with your partner or with a group of people and you get this embarrassing, you know, you literally see you perspiring on your top lip. Yeah. And you can't actually control it, you know. So they're not nice symptoms, but there is lots of good advice out there for now and there's lots of different supplements and things like that. I think the Davina McCall thing made it huge as well, didn't she? She's made it a really big success. So I think it's opened and I think as well because of that, I think perhaps men are listening a little bit more and might be a little bit more considerate towards their partners, perhaps, you know, because they— it's always been brushed under the carpet. Yeah. And then perhaps with that now, it's, you know, made them a bit more attentive to— well, Russ Kane, who actually owns this radio station, he said the same, exactly the same thing. We need to— us men need to know more about it. And I— have you got any advice? I said, just, just stay away, Russ. That's what I said. Stay out the way. But no, seriously, Yeah, men need to know how difficult it is. Definitely, yeah. And there's other things going on, like in the workplace as well. There's something going around called Menopause Champions. Right, okay. Where people go into the workplace and explain to the boss or the staff or everyone else what this, what their older, like, ladies are going through. Right, okay. And I think that's really helpful. It's easier for them to understand. Because a lot of women leave their jobs. Yeah, I have heard that. Yeah, yeah, they leave their jobs because they— one of the symptoms is anxiety and lack of confidence, and they end up, you know, from a job they've been in for years, leaving it because of the menopause. So if we're more understanding, um, I think that'd be really helpful. Yeah, in the workplace. As a business owner, um, I have heard that because they are trying to bring in sort of sick pay for people being off with menopause. I've heard that. As a business owner, I don't know that I'd agree with that. Oh, controversial. Yeah, I don't know, because I think it's, you know, um, obviously we all have periods and things like that as well, and I suppose it is very— it's a very different debate, isn't it? You know, it kind of is. It's a good one though. I mean, the thing is, what, like, if you're a small business owner, like you are and I am, it's very hard for us to afford to do that. Yeah, if you're a really big company, yeah, fair enough. Yeah. And also there might be people that are not genuine. Absolutely, exactly. And they'll jump on the bandwagon. So I do think it's a bit of a gray area. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's the same as the thing with the anxiety that comes with it. There's so many young people that suffer, but it's been labeled as anxiety now, isn't it? And lots of people— we never used to suffer with anxiety. And now I know in my workplace, you know, there's a few ladies that have anxiety and take medication and things for it as well. And, you know, it's just— I just think that sometimes it might be used as an excuse. People do genuinely suffer, and— but I think there's a lot of people that, you know, if they can, they just say, oh, I've got anxiety, and then they've got to be off for a day. It'd be the same with the menopause or with period problems. You know, you can't just pay somebody for something that comes naturally from the body. Yeah, yeah. You're a really tough boss, Tracy. I'm not. I'm very sympathetic, I think, for people that are genuine. Sounds like it. Yeah, no, I, you know, at the end of the day, but I think, I think because I probably just got on with it because I had to. Yeah, I think I've just sort of gotten, you know, but there, I mean, my mum gets really bad anxiety and I do see the downsides to it. So people that genuinely have anxiety and like, you know, symptoms, I do get that. But, and I do think that that opens up a whole realm of discussion because there are lots of people, not just with anxiety, with all different sorts of sickness, if they think they're going to be paid to be off, they can, they can, you know, take advantage of it. Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. It used to be, you know, I've got a headache or I've got the flu or I'm sick, but now it is, okay, I'm having anxiety. Yeah. Because, yeah, mental health is huge. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of pressure on people these days with mental health problems, you know, especially with social media and things like that. I think it's very unfair on the young ones that they've got to keep up to You know, they're putting filters and stuff on their pictures all the time to try and, you know, look better or look like, you know, look like the models and stuff. But they don't realize it's not real life. And a lot of it is airbrushed, isn't it, as well, you know. So, you know, it's— that's a whole massive different discussion, isn't it, you know. But unfortunately, that is what comes with the menopause as well, anxiety, isn't it? Yeah. I do actually remember when I went through my menopause, um, I do actually remember going into work and panicking one day and thinking, oh my God, what is that? And it must have been some sort of thing, like it must have been a panic attack. Yeah. And so I've never had one, and I'd never had one before. So I do remember, I mean, it was nearly 10 years ago now, so I do remember having— it was a quite— I don't even know what brought it on. It might have been quite a stressful day, someone might not turned up for work or something. Perhaps I had a period pain. And there was more pressure put on me because of of it, perhaps. But I do remember, and I did have that a couple of times, so I know it's not a nice feeling. So for somebody to suffer from that, it's awful if they've got that, you know, as something that's happening to them every day. And it's like, if you've never had it before, it can be quite scary. Yeah, no, it's vile. Yeah, I've had anxiety attacks and phobias, and it's absolutely vile. Yeah. But yeah, yeah, you're right, people could use it as an excuse. So, so what have you got? Have you got Beauty clinics, then? I've got a salon in Leon C. Yeah, I did have a second one which I sold in March, and that was how I developed the pillow. So I— I'm— what, the money that you got from— no, not the money that I got from that, but that is what gave me the idea to develop the pillow. And because obviously where I'm doing facials on a daily basis, and I've had clients coming in to me for the last sort of nearly 20 years, And people pay a lot of money for facials and products to get rid of lines and wrinkles that they've already got. And so when I could see that people coming in and they'd wake up in the morning, they had lines on their face from their sleep, and as the time was going on, these lines were getting deeper. And it was to prevent the lines in the first place. Yeah. So I've always slept on my back and tried to wedge my head in between things to stop me rolling over and stuff. And that was what gave me the idea. So the pillow basically trains you to sleep on, on your back, right? So obviously there's— I think there's only about 15% of people actually sleep on their back at the moment. So the hardest part is to obviously, once you start using the pillow, because it cradles your jaw, it actually— if you go to turn, it actually stops you turning. So it can take a a few days up to a couple of weeks to get used to using the pillow, but obviously the benefits outweigh, you know, a few sleepless nights sort of thing. We have had clinical trials done as well because there are lots of pillows on the market and we are the only company that's actually paid for clinical trials. That's good. And the clinical trials proved it was 100% clinically proven, which is really, you know, it's quite unusual for anything to be 100% clinically proven. So it was 100% clinically proven to reduce lines and wrinkles. So that's a claim that we've got on it. And over an 8-week period of all the subjects that it was tested on, there was an approximate reduction of 13.1%. And but as I say, it's got lots of other benefits. Lots of people buying it for neck pain, for back pain because it keeps your spine aligned. And then it's great for people that are menopausal because of the, you know, the body's the body temperature just rises and it just cools the body down. And as I said, like, ladies, as they get into their 40s and 50s, we just lose so much estrogen. Yeah, yeah. And it just depletes everything, doesn't it? You know, so, you know, everything starts drying up. Sorry, sorry, everybody, I've got an Essex girl in here. And it always gets around to this, trust me, especially after a few cocktails. But yeah, no, you're right, everything dries up and drops. Yeah, absolutely. And then we will start like growing— we lose our eyebrow hair, but it grows out of our chin instead. Exactly. So yeah, it's not great, but at least we're kind of dealing with it now and we know that there's places to turn to. Things like your pillow coming out, That's a really great option for people. Yeah, I think when ladies get into their, you know, their— when they get to their mid-40s and 50s, lots of ladies lose so much confidence in themselves. Yeah, you know, because their body changes. Yeah. And, you know, and I think things like when you speak to people and they— they— the amount of ladies when I say to them, can you see the difference after using the pillow? And I say, do you notice in the morning? So many people say, I don't even look in the mirror in the morning, I can't. Because they don't want to see their face. Yeah. And then they do start using the pillow and then they go, oh my God, yeah, it's such a difference because their face, it's all fresh. Yeah. And they're ready to go, you know. But, you know, I think when they're lying on their side, your jowls is what makes you feel older and, you know, your nose-to-mouth lines. Yeah. And that's obviously what's— that is what really ages us and around our neck. And it really does prevent that happening. There's also a line that you can get on your forehead. Yeah, that sort of goes vertical. Yeah, and like you and I both, both have clinics, so we know that we can get rid of horizontal lines with Botox, but this particular vertical line, that's right, is from sleeping. Yeah, and you can't get rid of it with Botox. And lots of men get that as well. Yeah, lots of men get that where they rest their hand under their face of the night and they get that line. And also when you decolletage on your neck. Yeah, lots of ladies, they've got heavy breasts as well. Décolleté. Is it? Yes. Because I always thought it was décollage or something. Well, I suppose you— yeah, you can't décolleté, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. Anyway, you just like taught me something there that I've been saying it wrong for about 25 years. But, um, if ladies have got heavy breasts, obviously that then lines on their neck. Yeah. Their cleavage. Yeah, yeah. It weighs and the lines are much deeper. Yeah. Um, and even for any sort of surgery, if people have their breasts done, if they have a cosmetic surgery If you've had a heart attack, it's really dangerous. It's not good to lay on your organs, lay on your left-hand side. Yeah, you know, so there's lots and lots of benefits to sleeping on your back. So, you know, once you can train yourself to sleep on your back, which the pillow does, there's lots more sort of physical benefits as well. And so someone's— even if someone's had, you know, they break something, or, you know, they could have had any sort of surgery, cesareans, anything like that, then you are meant to actually lay on your back after that, because laying on your side can, you know, cause more damage. Yeah. So do you find many men use it, or have you got many male customers? We are getting a few. I mean, there's a few— gay men love it, obviously, because they're more into perhaps their looks and stuff. Men do use it, but I don't think a lot of them would like to admit that they use it, but they do. You know, lots of ladies come in and buy one, and they come back and buy them for their husbands. So, you know, yeah. Okay, so, okay, so you've got your salon and you've now got your sleep pillow. How did you first get into that? You know, right way back— not way back, sorry, you're not that old— when you very first started out? So with the pillow? Yeah, no, with your salon. So I've always, where I had my son young, I wanted to get a trade behind me. So I learnt to be a therapist, and obviously at the time a YTS thing was only about £35 a week, so obviously I didn't want to do that. So I went on and done lots of other jobs. I've done insurance and marketing, and I was a salesperson. And then I started doing bits for other people, and then I started doing bits of waxing and stuff at home. People were coming knocking on my door at 9 o'clock at night saying, Trace, I'm going on a date, can you wax my legs, or can you spray me? And I used to do spray tans and it used to take me longer to clear up people's kitchens and bathrooms than what it did me actually doing those tans. It goes everywhere, doesn't it? Even with the tent. Yeah, definitely. All over the cooker. Yeah, everywhere. That's the spray tan, by the way, in case you didn't follow what we was talking about. So yeah, and then I just, I was going to convert my garage and then I started looking for premises and, you know, just fortunately I had a couple of other premises that I was going to take on and then they fell through for whatever reason. And then I found this one in Leigh, and Leigh's a nice affluent area. There's, you know, there's hundreds of— I think there's about 62 salons in Leigh. Yeah, but we've been there 19 years now, so we're established. So, you know, but yeah, we do lots of varied treatments, so I think that's why we're always busy. We've got a good reputation. And then it just seemed the next thing to do really was to With the pillow, as I say, a gentleman, Joe, who owns Deo Beauty Products, he came into the salon and used it for filming a training video. And he already had a patent on a wax pot, and I just asked him how he'd got that product, and how I got product out of my head into an actual product. And he asked me what it was, and then I said, I'm not telling you, I'm going to sign a non-disclosure agreement. And I think when I went to see him, I think he thought I was taking a hairbrush or, um, I don't know, a spatula or something to him. And, uh, he was like, 'Are people really that bothered about their wrinkles?' Oh yeah, yeah. And I said, 'Yeah, they are.' So, um, he sort of trusted me and we went in and did it together. So with his sort of expertise on manufacturing and then my ideas, it went backwards and forwards for— took a bit longer than it should have done because of COVID Yeah. And we all got locked down, sort of thing. So But, um, yeah, um, because there's not really many people that do actually produce their own— no product. Yeah, like lots of people will buy a product and then white label it. Yeah, put their own like stamp on it, but there's not actually that many people that start from scratch like you. No, it's a really expensive thing to do. It's very expensive and it's very time-consuming. And you know, and the thing is, if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? You know, it is very time-consuming. It's, you know, it's quite different. You know, you keep— you get a prototype and then you'll test it out and there'll be something. With the pillow, there's two different foams. They're memory foam. There's a slightly more rigid foam inside and a softer foam on the outside. So the more rigid foam obviously stops you rolling. And I think we sent that back 4 or 5 times to keep having, you know, so that it wasn't too hard, not too soft. And then obviously all the different foams, you've got to make sure that they're all sort of fire retardant and EU safety and things like that. So, you know, it isn't an easy job. You do have to keep going backwards and forwards with it, you know, but it's worth it if you get there in the end, you know. So at the moment we're just looking hopefully to get it onto some shopping channels. It is with Ideal World at the moment. On their platform, and it's on Amazon, and it's also on our own website. And then lots— we sell lots of it on the socials with digital marketing and stuff. But what is your website? Could you tell everyone? Our website is www.freshfacepillow.com. Um, the pillow retails at £129, um, but it is on special at the moment at £97. Okay. Okay. Um, if you go on to the freshfacepillow.com and put in Sue, S-U-E, there will be another 10% off of that. So you will get another 10% off if you listen to the station and put in Sue. Sue, I think it's Sue 25. Sue 25. Yeah, there you go. Handy, aren't I? Getting 10% off. So, so you thinking about any other product? I was just thinking when I was sitting here that you was talking about how cooling the Piller is. Could we not come up with something that we wear around our neck all day? Yeah, that's a good idea. It's got cooling gel in it or something. Yeah, for the menopause. Yeah, there's always like the magnet, isn't it? Something that's magnetizing it. I think the only other things that we thought about doing with that is sort of doing like the hair bands and the sleep pillow, the sleep, the eye sleeping pillows and things like that. But yeah, no, at the moment that's the only product that we're doing. I have brought one of my clients along with us today. Her name's Linda. She's actually had the pillow for about 6 months and she's benefited in quite a few different ways. So, hello Linda, can you come on out? Can you come and tell us about your experience with the pillow? Yeah, I've had the pillow probably, yeah, for about 6 months, might be a bit longer than that, Tracy, I think. Yeah, possibly. But I purchased the pillow purely for me. It was was, uh, you know that like wrinkly old bit that you get? Yeah, in your chest. Yeah. Is it the color? Yeah, I know something new today. No idea. Granny, granny bit down the middle. Granny chest. So that's why I bought it, purely for that. And then obviously I was getting like a few wrinkles, like from the sleeping, because I've always slept on my side. So then Tracy was just, yeah, you just need to be sleeping on your back, because obviously, well, you can think if you sleep on your back, you know that like that's, that's gonna, you know, sort of bring these wrinkles sort of, uh, sort of back, isn't it? So yeah, so I purely bought it for that. And then basically sort of after Christmas, I started going through my menopause. Oh, did you? So, uh, for me, having that pillow, I didn't even really think of it for that. I used to get in it, and it's got these side bits that come up, and it's got all the cooling gel and everything, and, uh Brilliant at night, yeah, because you get that heat and you're getting those sweats, and then the cooling gel is just bringing it down. So yeah, and that worked for both, both things for me. Yeah, yeah. Have you noticed a reduction in your lines? Oh yeah, totally, totally, because the sleep lines that you get, that you get from the side, yeah, they're the ones that, like you just said, you can't get rid of with, you know, doing Botox and stuff. So Yeah, noticed it massively just within a few weeks. Okay. And how's your granny chest? And the granny chest is gone. Oh, okay. Yeah, because what happens is, because obviously where it's like the elasticity— can't say that word— elasticity. You said it well. Because as you get older, obviously that goes, doesn't it? So when you're sleeping on your side, what used to happen, it used to ping back. Yes. And then, yeah, you weren't doing that anymore. So yeah, the more that you sleep on your back, obviously that just— it just reduces it and it goes. You don't look very old. How old are you? I'm 54. Oh wow. Yeah, I was just thinking you said you were going through your menopause, but you look about like, oh, I don't know, 19 or something. I paid her earlier. Lovely. Yeah, I'll take you everywhere. No, you You don't look that, so yeah, not that that means anything because like Tracy said— you can go through it younger. Yeah, she was 42. You know, I've spoke to people that have gone through it in their 30s. Yeah, it's— there's just— I think they say between 36 and 56. Yeah, it can be. Yeah, yeah. I'd say I was quite late. Yeah, I'm only just going through it. But the cooling gel on that pillow, yeah, it's a saviour. Yeah, it does bring it down. It helps your back as well, Lynette, doesn't it? Yeah, so that was the other thing. So before Christmas I'd had, I've been going physio and I had some problems with my neck going right the way down my back. So then the other thing was when I started using the pillow, because obviously it aligns you, it keeps you on your back and straight. It's just basically within, well, that happened within a week. My, my back and everything and my neck was just, it just felt like it was just gone. Yeah, almost like overnight. Like you've been to a physio or therapist or something. Yeah, it was just brilliant. So like there's 3 factors to that pillow. Yeah. So it is, yeah, the menopause, obviously the wrinkles, that's what I first bought it for. But yeah, for the fact that I got that from the menopause and then, you know, for my back, it's, uh, yeah, 3 in 1. Well, I've got to say, you do look very young. So thank you. I'm honestly, I'm taking you everywhere I go. It's Tracy's pillow actually that's done that. So yeah, so what— why do you think— so you said that you think that maybe you went through early menopause because you had a child when you was young, but there's no kind of scientific backing that, is there? No, there's not. But I don't know whether my body went into— I think we— I think stress causes early menopause. Yeah, I think it definitely does. And I think there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of factors that contribute to through the menopause. And I really do think that, I think at the time it was probably more stress than anything else. I didn't have my periods for, I had a period for about 6 months and I didn't have any for like 2 or 3 years. But yeah, I just think with the menopause, the worst thing of the menopause is definitely the hot flushes, they're just horrid. And like the anxiety, because you had a bit of anxiety sometimes moving in, didn't you? Yeah, through the menopause. Yeah, definitely. You don't work for her, do you? No, I wouldn't if I was you. No, no, no, I don't work for Tracy. But what I think really, really, really helps with the menopause as well, because lots of my clients are sort of going through it now, I definitely think, um, I think not drinking so much coffee, caffeine, yeah, because that creates hot flushes because it's a stimulant, yeah, alcohol I think your diet is massive. Yeah, the diet is huge for menopause. So more soya, isn't it? Lots more vegetables. And also exercise is so important because exercise just helps you with your anxiety as well, doesn't it? Yeah. You know, it gets all the endorphins going. I mean, I think with the serotonin levels and stuff like that, it's all the stress, isn't it? You know, so if you can get all your endorphins going with exercise and you get up in the morning, you feel great. And listening to lots of, you know, podcasts and things like that as well, and meditating. All of that helps with menopause, getting out in nature. Yeah, all of that really does help with the mindset, isn't it? Yeah, but you know, sometimes if you are really down and really low and depressed, it's really hard to get started. Yeah, you know, it's like you just think, I can't do it, I'm too exhausted, I don't feel— so what's your advice there? I think it's just trying to have a positive outlook, I suppose, on life. I do, I do. I get that not everybody is the same as that, but I just think even if you just try and change any negative thoughts you get, if you get up in the morning and you just think, right, I'm going to have a good day today, and you just try and— it's like everything, isn't it? If you sit in the car and you're late for work, for example, and you're stuck in a traffic jam, we start stressing. So then the whole day becomes stressful. Yeah. As opposed to if you can just sit there and you're in a traffic jam, if you can just accept that you're in the traffic jam and you can't do anything about it, all of a sudden the traffic jam disappears and you actually— the day, the day actually works out all right. Is that what happens if you think positive? The traffic is 100% exactly. Well, the positive thinking is definitely I would just say the same, you know, like if you get up in the morning, it's just like even if you just add one different habit. Yeah, you know, one positive habit to, you know, sort of your day, even if it is a struggle, like you said, if you're in that mindset where you're so negative and you are feeling in a real struggle, even if you think, okay, I'm not gonna make it so big, I'm just gonna get up in the morning and I'm gonna do that one thing extra a day. So it's not like a big task, It's just one movement forward, isn't it? What would you say could be that one, that one thing? It could just be listening to one positive podcast. Yeah, you know, or I'm just gonna go out in nature. The first thing you should do is go out anyway. Yeah, and have a cup of coffee, obviously if it's not pouring down with rain, but you know, go out in nature, have a cup of coffee, but just be out in nature and take it in and just be, you know, sort of— no, I agree with you, rather than that whole rushing in your head. I've got to do this, I've got to do this, I've got to do that. So I think just be kind to yourself. I think we've got such a lot of pressure on us. Everyone beats themselves up for not doing something, don't they? Yeah, you know, and I think just sort of, you know, just try to be in a positive mindset and be kind to yourself, you know, and just don't beat yourself up about not getting this done today or not getting that done today. And just take, just Just take things— it does make a huge difference though to if you can exercise, even if you can just go for a walk and go around the block for 5 minutes. I walk my dogs every single day. I'm glad I have my dogs. Yeah, gets you out and doing that. I love my dogs anyway, but it does make me go out every day because otherwise I get 4 faces staring at me. Yeah, make me feel really, really guilty. But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's— that's not a reason to get a dog. You need to get a dog because you want one. But so Yeah, that's, that's a really good thing. So back to the pillow. Sleep's very important, you know. Yes, it is. If you don't have enough sleep, sleep deprivation is what they used to punish people with, isn't it? You know, I'll tell you a story now. This is something I learned the other day from a doctor. I think it was a— yes, she was a doctor— that the hours between 10 and 2 are the most important hours to sleep, right? And if you do night work, or you can't change that, I know, but it's to do with the light. So our bodies have a clock and we know when it's becoming like darker, and we also know when it's, you know, because how does your body know it's between 10 and 2? This is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, but it does because because of the daylight coming up, so forwards. But apparently in those 4 hours, and when you go into a deep sleep, your brain actually gets washed of toxins. Really? So there you go, brainwashing is actually a thing. Mm-hmm. And I never ever knew that. So what you need to do is make sure you're in bed between 10 and 2. Mm-hmm. And a deep sleep, and your brain gets washed, but in a good way. Yeah, but again with that, isn't it, they, they say not to— and it's true— don't look at the telly. Yeah, like an hour before you go to bed. That's, that's that, definitely. Yes, stay off devices. Yeah, yeah, don't, don't look at your phone, don't go on social media. Yeah. And I think a big thing for me as well, my, my— I have actually been able to silence my head now. I can actually stop that inner chatter. And I think I've just done that through meditation. And we always obviously get pulled back into it a bit. But I think as well, massive thing is if you've got stuff to do the next day, write yourself a list and then go to bed knowing you've got done your list and you can stop thinking about it. I never can remember where my list is. So, got any advice for that? Because I do. I have done that. I've written down the list. And I thought, well, what do I do with that list? And then that's another problem, you know. But put it on your phone. Yeah, your own WhatsApp. That's what I do. And I just send it always in me WhatsApp. Yes, I do do that now. So, but sleep is massive. Yeah. And that is with Tracy's pillow. So where you are laying on the pillow and you are talking— where you are laying on the pillow and you are just like there laying, it's, it's, it's It's where you are, I think, aligned in the right position. Yeah. And I have the best sleeps just since having the Pilates, like just have the best sleeps. And I think it is purely because you're aligned and you're laying on your back in the right position. It's almost like a, like a relaxing yoga position, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. So how did you teach yourself to meditate? I started listening to podcasts and stuff and I wanted to stop the inner chatter really in my head. You know, we sort of, you know, you think about, you know, you're talking to someone and you're not being present and you're thinking about something else and you're answering a question about something before someone's even spoken to you. Yeah. And so I think the meditation, you just got to let your thoughts come and go and just try and be present and just, you know, menopause really messes your sleep up as well, doesn't it? You know, and like we toss and turn um, you know, and you sort of, you sort of fold on your face, fold on your back, whatever. But, and again, you know, with the pillow, if you just lay there and you're laying in one position, you've got a nice cool neck, and it's easy just to sort of count the sheep, um, count to 10, and let you go into a nice deep sleep. Mm, okay. Yeah, and I haven't been sleeping properly myself lately, and I think that it's because there's too much chatter going on. Do you meditate? No, I find it really difficult to meditate because Well, for that very reason, like you're trying to meditate, yeah, whatever it is that you're concentrating on, a color or whatever, but then these thoughts— someone think you've got things in your head going, you need to get that done, you can't be lying here, you know, you need to— you've got all these things to do. It's really hard, honestly. I think it's hard to meditate. Yeah, for meditation though, you don't actually have to just be meditating as in a meditative state. You could be out in nature walking and that could be your meditation. So like, it's like a relaxation in a different way other than just like laying there. Some people just think it's, I've got to sit there and I've just got to really just quieten everything down. There is other ways that you can meditate by doing that. Good lessons to try and start meditating is to, if you, if you breathe and count to 10 slowly breathing. Yeah. I think because you're concentrating on counting your breath, you're clearing your head because you're being present and counting on your breathing. So you see what I mean? Rather than you— you're not thinking things because you're actually concentrating on counting on your breathing. Yeah, yeah. There is a really good book actually that I listen to on audiobook. I tell everybody about it. It's called The Untethered Soul. Okay. And it's all about— he's brilliant. He was— he's a— you know, it's all about we are our thoughts, but we're not our thoughts, because our thoughts are just our thoughts. They don't actually mean anything. Yeah. So human beings make things— make us mean things, but we don't— doesn't mean anything. So what you're thinking, your perception of something, is going to be completely different of my perception of the same situation. You know, and it's just about, and it's just about clearing our thoughts and, you know, not worrying about what other people— with the menopause and anxiety and stuff like that, I think we all worry too much about what other people think. Yeah, you know, and it— that— that's— what does it matter? As long as you're healthy and you're happy, and it doesn't matter about what other people think, you know, everyone's got their own lives. Yeah, you know, but you did actually say on it earlier, which you said that, you know, you never used to hear about mental health, and now it's, it's like a bit of a buzzword. But I do think that the world has become more stressful. Absolutely. As well. Yeah, definitely. And like you were saying, for youngsters, and you, they're under so much pressure to look good, to wear, to wear the right clothes, and their mum can't afford to buy it for them, so you know, they're going to get bullied at school or looked down upon. It's a really hard world. Yeah, no, hugely. Yeah, I don't think I'd like to have a child now, a young child. I don't think it's a very nice place to bring them into at the minute. No, yeah, I mean, my daughter's 21 and it is the look. Yeah, you know, the Instagram look. Can't wear the same thing, you've got to look like this, you've got to look like that. So the pressure started at a young age. Yeah, it's like you've always got to be somewhere glamorous as well, you know. Yeah, in, yeah, in Dubai or something, or we're at the best restaurant in London and it's not really real. And then like you say about the filters, everyone puts filters on their face. And who was I talking to the other day? This man that come and cleaned, jet washed my garden. He said he puts on his, what's that thing where people make online. Oh, online dating? Yeah, but the Tinder— that's it, Tinder. On his Tinder, he's got— all he puts under his, um, picture is, if we meet up and you don't look like you do on your picture, you've got to buy the drinks until you do look like that. So I thought that was No, they post, do they? Because they don't want to. What a shock. Yeah, you know, you, you, you're going, you're going out and you're really excited, you're going to meet this really handsome guy, and then you're looking around the room and you think, where is he? I can't see him. And then he's in the corner waving and he doesn't look nothing like the picture. No, it's, um, it's the world we live in, unfortunately. And that's why there's so much pressure, you know, on on us, especially as we're older and everything. And say when you're going through the menopause, it's, uh, it's more pressure because you get more anxious about it, don't you? How you look. And I think like women that have, um, obviously split up with their partners later in life, it's really hard for them to go dating. You don't really want to, do you? No, for a start. Yes. And then, you know, so, and the menopause doesn't help because you look down on yourself and you don't feel like you used to do. And then you break out in a hot sweat on the first day. And you're doing this with the— I used to say, do you know what, it's you, you've brought me over all hot, you've made me go all hot. That's what I'd do anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think with all the influences as well, I think that will probably become a thing of the past soon as well because I think all of the influencers, they're all on social media showing about what great— how great their lives are. And I think as well with social media and stuff, with the mental health things, it makes— because they're saying about what great lives they've got, and it's really— you've only just seen that post, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors, do you? No. So, you know, you've got these influencers saying about what— but a lot of these people, they're under so much pressure and You know, they're probably— they are, a lot of them, probably the ones with the mental health issues because they're, you know, they've got so much pressure on them. It's like, you know, all people on TV and stuff, there's so much pressure on them. And a lot of the time that they, you know, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors. And a lot of them are not very— they've got too much pressure on them because they've got to look this way, look that way. And and, you know, it's just— it isn't. I know, it's really, really hard. I know it's a really, really hard world to live in. But well, like you said, what we've got to do is just try and make the best of it. Yeah, live our best life. It's a bit of a funny old saying, but I just said it. You've got to live your best life. Yeah. And, you know, be as healthy as you can. Healthy. Yeah. Fitness. Meditate. Eat, relax, have fun. Laughing is really good. Yeah, we've lost that, haven't we? A lot of people have lost that a bit. So yeah, yeah. And, um, yeah, I just think that we need to just try and live in the moment and stop thinking about the future or the past. But it's really hard to do that. Yeah, it's hard to live in the moment. Yeah, it is. But the thing, if you can live in the moment and be present, you're only worried about that, that moment. They say, don't they say What's the saying? If you want to be sad, live in the future. No, if you want to be sad, live in the past. If you want to be worried, live in the future. If you want to be happy, live now. Okay, that's really good. Yeah, I'm glad you remembered it. Yeah, we're all going by our past, like, you know, things about— you worry about something that's going to happen. Because you're thinking about something that's happened in the past and you automatically think that's going to happen again, you know. But if you can, you know, not worry about the past— past is gone— and just be present, you know, and just, you know, especially with, with ladies that are suffering with the menopause, a lot of ladies, like you say, they get to their menopause, so they might stop having sex with their husbands or something because they lose their libido, you know. And then they do split up with their husband. It's so hard to move on. And, you know, but, and it is, for men and for women, it's very difficult, I think, you know. But if they can just sort of try and be kind to themselves, you know, just start going to the gym or even going for walks and being healthy and being happy in themselves and kind to themselves, you know, we can make the world a better place, I think. And be kind to people. Yeah, pay it forward. Yeah, yeah, don't be, don't be. No, because there's a lot of people that are not kind to people. Um, it's a bit like that Philip Schofield thing. Maybe I shouldn't really talk about it, but I just think, um, I don't know what, whatever he's done. I, the thing is, is that it seems to happen a lot in this country where people dive on someone that's, that's down and, and then totally, you know, bully them and It's just awful. It's just that our life's hard enough, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and he's gonna pay his price for it, whatever it is, isn't it? Yeah, right or wrong. But, you know, there's definitely a bullying culture. Absolutely. Which is, which is vile. But okay, so any other plans for the future? Oh, I know what I was gonna ask you. You've got one of those machines in your clinic We're not allowed to do that no more. Our insurance company stopped too. Yeah. Oh yeah, can I tell them what it was though? Yeah, yeah, it's like the vagina tightening. Yeah, but it isn't just tightening, it's, um, you know, brings, brings the blood flow back and all of that. And you're not allowed to do it? No, I don't know why, but, um, our insurance company has stopped allowing vaginal tightening now. Um, it's like a Haifu, um, but a lot of insurance companies have stopped doing I've run a few companies and they've stopped allowing us to do it now, but it was more for lubrication, so it increases lubrication and also for incontinence. Yeah, I know. But it's like if you laugh when you've had a baby, if you start laughing and you sort of, you know, but yeah, no, we're not actually allowed to do it now. Is it because it has to be a doctor doing it, do you think? I think it's going a bit more down that line, probably, yeah. Yeah, but our insurance company just wrote to us and said that they won't cover us anymore on it now. But there is a— there's a chair, isn't there? I know quite a few salons have got that. It's called a medicine chair, right? You can sit on it, and obviously with the vaginal tightening, the hyperigo, it's put inside. Yeah. And so that's why it increases lubrication. But I don't know, I think as well, because if someone's got a prolapsed womb or bowel, that was like a contraindication. So perhaps there's people have got things like that and they don't know about it. Yeah, you know, yeah, possibly. So insurance companies won't cover it now. Yeah, but what's this chair? I don't know, we don't— I don't have a chair, but I know one of my clients who was having that, we can't do it on her anymore. She said that she's been going on a thing now called the Medicine Chair, and I think it's vibrations or something. So I think I'll just buy one anyway. Yeah, I'll just buy one anyway. I told you we were frenetics. This is how it gets. But yeah, I do. I think being a beauty therapist, yeah, you know, we get lots of ladies that come in and you'll have them, they'll have a facial, and a facial can be £100. Yeah. And, and that's, that, that's to try and prevent, like, to get rid of the lines that they've got. This is actually prevention, so it's a prevention instead of of cure, really. So, you know, it's well worth it. And when you break it down, it's, you know, it's— you might go out for a meal and easily spend £50, £60 on a Saturday night. You don't think anything of that. No, more like £100 now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, so it's just a one-off investment. And as I said, it's at the Fresh Face Pillow Company. And so www.freshfacepillow.com, if you put in the code SUE25, it will give you another 10% off the whole order at checkout as well. But it is something, you know, we do a 60-day sleep guarantee with it as well. Okay. So you can try it out for 60 days, if you don't like it, you can send it back. Okay. So, you know, you've got a guarantee, so you can't really go wrong with it. As I say, you do have to be a bit persistent with it. It. It can take a few days up to a couple of weeks to get used to it because, and it's— if you go to roll over, it will stop you rolling over. Yeah, it might wake you up. But again, with menopause, sleep is so important. If you're getting those hours between 10 and 2 and then you wake up again, you can't get back to sleep. Sleep deprivation is awful, and that makes you feel horrendous anyway if you don't sleep properly, doesn't it? So it's really important to, you know, and if you, you slip back into the— it makes you feel quite safe in the pillow, doesn't it? Yeah, that's how I feel. It feels like you're hugging Yeah, like he's hugging you when you lay into it. So yeah, I look forward to getting him off pillow. Is it better than a man, this pillow? Well, you know, sometimes, yeah, it is. I get a good sleep and I'm comfortable and he can go in the other room. You look all right in the morning as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely look a lot better in the morning. And at the end of the day, your man's got to look at you, so he's pleased that you're sleeping in it anyway. Yeah, just wondered if it sort of like got in between you, you know. But, um, okay, so yeah, Tracy, it's been, um, it's been really lovely talking to you. Thank you for having us. Okay, and so we've discussed your salon and your pillow, um, and we discussed meditation, and I think you should you know, have your own podcast. Anything else that you'd like to talk to us about? I think life begins at 50. Yeah, who told me that the other day? Did you say that? I didn't. You know, women, when you get to your 50s, obviously you've gone through your 30s and your 40s and you're much more confident in yourself. And although you're not producing as much estrogen— I was listening to another podcast actually on John Gray wrote Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, and he's actually wrote another book which is 20 years later called Beyond Mars and Venus. And it's very interesting because that relationships and how, like, just even just relationships with friends as opposed to partners, it's all about, it's all about hormones. So men, men produce obviously testosterone and and we've all got masculine and feminine qualities. I'm more masculine dominant, I think, because I've, because I've had to be, I think, throughout my life. And I do think that a lot of the, a lot of men, as they get older, they lose their masculine dominant, and then because they stop producing so much testosterone, so therefore they, they produce more estrogen, whereas women stop producing so much estrogen and produce more testosterone, and it makes us speak up more. So we don't put up with so much, you know, rubbish. We speak up for ourselves. And but it is very, it's very, very interesting on hormones because even with hormones, a lot of everything is to do with your hormones. Yeah, how you're thinking and everything, you know. Yeah. And I think in some ways as well, we're men stop producing so much testosterone as they get older. That's why they become a bit more— they start listening, become a bit more concerned. And a lot of men well up now, don't they, when they get into their 50s and 60s? They get more compassionate, you know. You can talk to them and you'll see a little tear coming into their eye because they're obviously becoming on more of their feminine side because they're actually stopping producing as much testosterone and they're producing more estrogen. It's great, isn't it, really? So we've got to look at the positives. Yeah, we've that we're actually becoming tougher and the men are becoming softer. So take advantage of it, girls. This is what I need to say. Get more out of our men. Yeah, get more out of our men. But I think that women have each other as well. So a lot more, you know, men have got mates, haven't they? And they go down the pub and have a beer or whatever, but I'm not sure that they talk about really deep emotional things to their mates. Men are problem solvers, aren't they? So if you tell them the problem you've got, they try and solve it. Whereas we're not trying to tell them we've got a problem, we're just trying to tell them how our day's been and what's gone on. They then try to solve it with something. We don't want them to solve it. Yeah, we just want them to listen to us. Yes, you know. Yeah. And but that's the difference between men and women, isn't it? Yeah, you know. And You know, going back to why this radio station started in the first place is because one of the directors was listening to someone in the pub and they were talking about suicide in men is so much higher than women. The difference is unbelievable. So, you know, it's quite sad really. I think men should be able to talk to their friends a bit more like we do because we can always I can always turn to my friends if I have a problem. And yeah, so in some ways we are lucky. Yeah, it is. But okay, just one, one last time, would you mind telling our listeners your website or where they can get one of the pillows? So the website is www.freshfacepillow.com, and it's £97 at the moment. RRP is normally £129. But £97. And if you put in SU25 at the checkout, you'll get an extra 10% off the whole order. And you can buy extra pillowcases for £29.99, and again you get 10% off of that. Okay, that's amazing. So thank you for my guests today, Tracy and Lynn. And this is Sue Moxley. This is The Menopause Show on Women's Radio Station., and I'm gonna see you in 2 weeks' time. Thank you, bye! Men and Women's Radio Station was originally launched after one of the directors was chatting in a pub to some people about the suicide rate in men, which he discovered was so much higher than it is in women. In fact, it's incredibly high, it's 80% and women 20%. And, you know, he was shocked at that and thought, okay, I need to, to do something out there so that men can talk about mental health and all of those things that, that they find it difficult to talk to their friends. You know, like us women, we, we chat more easily to our friends and we're more likely to go and tell our GP if, if we're not feeling good or if we're depressed or anxious, all of those things. So that's why I started the station. And of course, menopause isn't just about hot flushes and weight gain. It can be so much more than that. It can cause anxiety, depression, and can become really problematic. So On this show, we will be dealing with those kind of issues as well because they are just as important as, you know, the other, the other issues. So they were going to be covering lots and lots of things on The Menopause Show, and we look forward to having you on every— and we look forward to having you listening in um, on a regular basis.