Three Books – Lucy Vine

Hello and welcome to three Books with me, Angela Clarke on women's radio station. On today's show, we welcome Lucy vine, journalist and columnist for Grazia Heat and Marie Claire, among others. Lucy's first novel, Hot Mess, was an E book bestseller and has been optioned for a television series. And her latest, what Fresh Hell? Is a hilarious romp through nightmare. Hendoos and Best Friends Turning Bridezilla. Lucy, you are touted as ideal for fans of Fleabag and girls and your stories are very relatable. How many hendoos and weddings have you been to and how many have ended up influencing what Fresh Air. Well, it has been. I have been a prolific wedding goer. I've been a bridesmaid for the last seven years in a row. So I think that's a record. Is it? Yeah, it feels like a record. I feel very tired at this point. Oh, bless you. But I think kind of maybe I've come to an end of my many, many weddings, if mostly because I wrote about it and now no one's ever going to invite me to a wedding again ever again. And have you taken from real life and put it in the book? I've been quite careful not to do any specific. None of my friends have been terrible. I have to put that as a disclaimer. So of course I haven't written about any of my friends. But it's one of those things where when I sort of told people what my next book was going to be about, every single one of them had a story about some terrible incident at a wedding or some terrible way that it's not just brides. I don't want it to feel like it's an attack on brides because I think weddings bring out the best and the worst in everybody. I mean, the amount of stories I've heard about bridesmaids going being awful and parents and in laws trying to take over everything, it's just there's something about weddings that makes everybody get crazy and competitive and try and one up each other and it's wonderful, but it's also awful at times and they're so expensive nowadays. It adds up, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, you do this lovely thing where Lila, the main character, character, has sort of a running financial total throughout the entire book of how everything. I think it's marvellous. Thank you. Now, you've been described as a millennial writer and your books provide a witty, fresh and contemporary twist on what could be called a traditional romantic comedy. Was it a conscious choice to represent a particular generation Ah, well, all those descriptions are lovely, I guess. I mean, they say, write what you know. And I am a woman in my early 30s, so I kind of wanted to. So my first character in my first book was 29 going on 30, so I wanted to kind of cross over. So if you were in your 20s or your 30s, you might be able to relate either way. But I guess I have to write from that perspective as a woman, because I don't know what it's like to be a man of 50. Yeah. And I think that there was kind of. I don't know, there's a sort of. I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know how to answer this. I just wanted to kind of put that voice of a woman who isn't just sort of chasing a man into chick lit, as it were. And I know a lot of people don't like that term, but I'm happy with the term. It's only negative for me if somebody's using it negatively. And to be honest, the only people that say chick lit in a pejorative way are people that never have never read any chick lit, I think, to be honest. But there has always been this traditional idea in women's fiction that you have to locate a husband. Even the funniest, best books like Bridget Jones and, you know, single heroines like Carrie Bradshaw, they did still really want to find a man, ultimately. So I kind of wanted to spend. For the millennial women out there who aren't just spending their lives chasing down men and desperately sad about being alone, which leads us on nicely to what's the book that you always return to yourself? Wow, this is a bit left field, but I have this kind of secret obsession with sci fi and quite dystopian apocalyptic stuff. And I was thinking about this and looking at my bookshelf, this question. And Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham is a book that I read when I was really young. And it had such an impact on me. And I've kind of been obsessed with those kind of worlds ever since then. And I love sort of horror films and sci fi and all that kind of stuff. And for some reason, every now and again I would just. It's like comfort food, Day of the Trippers for me. I would just go and pick it up again. I just love it. And I mean, I think it's kind of more relevant than ever at the moment, don't you think? When you consider the world out there kind of a scary place, you've got to learn how to survive in an apocalypse. Right. Too political. James, we're talking about talking about surviving and making it through things. And you touched on it slightly there in both. What fresh hell and hot mess. Your lead characters are women in their 20s and they undergo almost a second coming of age as they kind of grow to accept themselves. When do you think we finally become adults? That is tricky because I think I am still waiting for that to happen. Yeah, I guess the traditional idea of it has always been, you know, when you get married or have a baby. And for me, because I didn't, I don't want to do those things necessarily. And my heroines in the books I've written are not doing that kind of turning away from those traditional life paths. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with staying silly and young as long as possible, really. I think there's a kind of weird obsession with growing up and doing, you know, adult things and. But to me, adult things are like doing your taxes and kind of mortgage payments. And I would rather just sort of stay young and embrace that kind of silliness for as long as possible and that youth. All fair guidelines for living, I think. So what Frechelle is though, it is a story about love. So it's between friends, between couples, between families, but perhaps most importantly, the love and the opposite that we can feel for ourselves. So one of Lila's best friends is a plus size Instagram superstar whose body positive self image is often in great contrast to Lila's own lack of self confidence. In today's world of hyper comparisons provided by social media. Do you think it's harder to love yourself? Oh, that's such an interesting question because it feels like we're bombarded with these sort of, I don't want to say faux positive messages, but it does sometimes feel like a bandwagon that a lot of people have jumped on. And then you're still seeing these sort of perfect glossy pictures and just because they're saying like, love yourself no matter what, I don't think necessarily a lot of the time that message is coming through because you're still only seeing the glossy perfect side. So it's such an interesting question because it feels like we, we are moving in the right direction in so many ways. But at the same time, there's still such an emphasis on putting out a perfect projection. And yeah, Jolie, the character in what fresh hell, the plus size model, she was so much fun to write and I don't know if it was I don't know if she's real, you know what I mean? She's so completely cool about her own image and the fact that she's a big girl. She loves it. She's so blase. She has as much fun as she wants to. She's sexually active throughout the book. I'd love to think that that is true, but I still kind of think there are so many barriers to women actually accepting who they are and what they look like, whether you're bigger or smaller. We're all just kind of constantly hearing messages about changing ourselves, and that is still such a big thing. And increasingly a problem with social media. But also, weirdly, social media is also. I mean, I follow loads of amazing body positive accounts and they're fabulous. But, yeah, you still don't really see what's going on behind those scenes, do you? Yes. And whether or not it's all going, oh, yeah, I love myself. But then aren't we all, at some point, going home and crying and not. Not loving ourselves all the time? The real thing is that we're all love each other, love ourselves and all hate ourselves at times. Surely we're all humans. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love myself whenever I've got a book. Yeah. So returning to that, is there a book that made you think differently about women? Definitely. And I'm worried everyone will say this, that Catlin Moran's how to Be a Woman. We haven't had it so far. Oh, okay, good. But I can't even tell you the impact it had on me. She was. She was just so happy and unconcerned with the stigma and the pressure applied to her. And it was that term feminist. And it's such a weird thing for me because I've always viewed myself, like, as a feminist, but I was also, especially when I was in my early 20s, I think I genuinely always had a bit of viewing myself through the prism of what men saw in me. I was always kind of thinking, like, but how do they see me? And I think we were all really afraid of that word for so long. And reading Catlin Moran's book just kind of just. It clicked so much in my head and it was like I'd shifted into who I wanted to be. And she gave me that bravery and confidence to just kind of be that person. It's amazing. 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Breast cancer, visit breastcancercare.org.uk walk. Welcome back to Three Books on Women's Radio Station, the programme where we discover the three books that have shaped and influenced today's female writers. Today we're talking to journalist and author of millennial romantic comedy, Lucy vine, whose latest book what Fresh Hell Explores, Nightmare Hen Dos and Bridezilla Weddings. Lucy, let's start with what's the book that you wish you'd written? I mean, probably Harry Potter, right? I wouldn't mind being a millionaire. No, the real answer would probably be something maybe Watermelon by Marion Keys, because that really changed things for me when I was a teenager because I was such a pretentious reader when I was young, I thought I was just too good for women's fiction. And I would read all this Dickens and all that kind of stuff and my sister was reading, you know, what would be classed as chick lit, like Marion Keys and Sophie Kinsella, and I thought I was too good for it. It's astonishing. And then I just sort of heard my sister laughing her head off in her own Marion Keys. Oh, my. But I. And I. So I read a couple of her books and it completely complete. I can't believe what an idiot I was to be so dismissive of it, because it's so clever and so heartfelt that they're writing and it sort of is the Reason I write the kind of books I write now because of. Probably because of those two women. So, you know, I think they changed the way the women's fiction. They made it okay to laugh at yourself and laugh at what it is to be a woman and explored so many different areas that were quite taboo and. Yeah. So probably if I had to choose, definitely Marion Keys Watermelon. But I mean the idea that that's something that you don't read, that you should read other. More inverted commas, proper books or adult books and things like that. I mean it is, it is a gender issue, isn't it? Because, you know, these books are, you know, like your books have main female leads. They are concerned with, with all kinds of aspects of life to do, you know, both, both upbeat and sad, you know, serious things as well as funny things that take place. And yet they're dismissed because they're not seen as proper literature. Absolutely. Yeah. I think we all fell for that. I think a lot of bookie people fell for that quite early on. Yeah. And I'm actually so glad we male gauged our own. I know we did internalized misogyny. Yeah, it's sad, isn't it? Because I was missing out on so much and I've always been such a voracious reader and I just kind of. There's a running joke in my, in my house. I'm the youngest of five and they're all very loud and shouting over each other. And there was a running joke about how I would just go sit in the loo for two hours at a time. But it was sort of kind of my safe space, hide away with a book in there and just read. But it was such a turning point for me when I discovered amazing, hilarious chick lipstick. Speaking of which. So your writing has a real refreshing scheme of kind of witty or funny, but also easygoing feminism. I think that runs through it. I'm assuming it's a deliberate design or is that just how you think all 20 and 30 something women are nowadays? I do definitely think there's been such a political awakening among young women. And it's a lot down to people like Catlin Moran and you know, people like yourself, Angela, like writing these amazing strong films, feminist characters that have made it okay to talk about feminism and to talk about issues that we had to sort of hide away from before. And I definitely, a lot of the way I was writing it is just because I am very. These are things I believe, you know, the way life should be. But I did specifically put in a Few things that I wanted to make a point of having written about. And I don't know how graphic you want to be, but there was a. A bit about periods and the kind of stuff around that. And I wanted the period pooping. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to say the period pooping that takes place in Hot Mess. I don't think I've. It's a bit of an appetite. I don't think I've ever read anything about period pooping before, whether in a feminist text or in any other book, no matter what genre it's been. And do you know what? I thought that I was odd until I read that book. Oh, isn't that amazing? That's wonderful to hear. Thank you. I actually thought it was. It was just a me thing because we never talk about this stuff because for so long, women have had to be kind of glossy and shiny. I still have friends that are like, no, no, women don't poo. Yeah. And it's such ridiculous nonsense that men are allowed, like, or kind of almost encouraged to be sort of farty creatures. And it's kind of a funny thing. But women. Oh, the idea of it. It's outrageous. So, yeah. That specific example is something I did put in specifically because I wanted. That was a conversation I didn't have until I was about 30. I didn't know was a thing that everybody experienced. But it was so funny, and it's so true. Thank you. And it is, you know, it adds like an extra layer to it. I didn't want to use the word chick lit before I started Reclaim It. Yeah. Well, we should. And I wasn't sure because some people do find it offensive. And I didn't want to offend you about your own writing, but I do feel like it is feminist chicken. Yeah. Well, that's brilliant. That's the ideal description for me. Yeah. It's only every word is, you know, subjective. It's all about them who's using it really. And I don't think chick lit as a phrase should be something we're afraid of. Definitely. We're talking about kind of feminism and women in what Fresh Hell? Not all the main characters. And actually in Hot Mess, not all the main characters are in their 20s and 30s. There's a whole kind of subplot in what Fresh Hell? That involves the protagonist, Lila, and a group of women who are. So. They're older. How old are they? Well, her grandmother, Granny Frannie is 90. Yes. So. And then there's a sort of wi. Rip off going on that Lila attends every Thursday. And so they're all sort of 70s, 80s, 90s. I found that really refreshing because I, again, don't think that's something that we see quite so often at the moment. How important are female friendships between generations to you? And do you think that we see enough of them in popular culture? That's an interesting question. I feel very sad about the fact that I don't have any older people, really, in my life. I've lost all my grandparents, but it's one of those things where I spend time with my friends, grandparents, and I'm always so shocked by how connected I feel with these people and. And how much we sort of dismiss their voices. But I've actually had so many women get in touch with me who are sort of older, 70s, 80s, who loved the books. And I'm really shocked about that because there's a lot of swearing and it is very silly at times. And I'm not shocked. I'm not shocked by it because I do have a number of friends who are older. And what I particularly loved about what fresh hell is that you almost, in a way, kind of cast aside that idea that the generations were at war with each other. Yeah. Because that's. I do have a real problem with that. It feels like I was about to get political there, wasn't I? But it does feel like millennials are kind of set against baby boomers a lot of the time. And that's such a shame. It's not their fault that, you know, they had cheaper houses. That's how it should be. But also that we can, you know, we can support and do support each other and do, you know, love each other and that you can learn things from each other. We need each other more than actually, don't we? This is the thing. Millennials, if they're struggling, need baby boomers more than ever. Yeah. And vice versa. You know, I like the idea that we're kind of breaking down the divides, that it's not so divisive. And I think that kind of central kind of female friendship idea that you have in the books is very clever because it transcends generations. It's not just the archetypal, you know, spunky, you know, 20 something and her, like, also 20 something friends. Yeah. Sassy friends. You know, there's a different layer to it. Thank you. That's really kind. You did do a very funny thing in Hot Mess, though, where you wrote excerpts from what was the main character's dad's attempt at a. Well, like a 50 shades of grey, 75 hues of Tony. Yeah, it was marvelous. It was absolutely marvelous. Thank you. Has anybody come back and said anything negative about that? I'm thinking in particular of your own dad. I think he was a bit worried that it was, but I think once he'd actually read it, he realised it isn't him. Of course, it is one of those things, though, that really divided people, the readers, because I guess it is a sort of breaking with tradition. It's not kind of a device used in many books. And like, half my readers seem to say it was their favourite thing and they thought it was hilarious and the other half were very much like, didn't see the point in it, didn't think it was funny, didn't enjoy reading it at all. So funny. People around me, just random strangers on the tube going, listen to this. Thank you, that's such an honor. But it is, you know, it was very funny. But that's interesting, that idea of Marmite, that thing that people either love or hate and often that's what makes a book successful. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. You know the kind of. The bland characters, the beige characters. You don't write beige characters. Is it deliberate that you don't write beige characters? Well, I mean, I do, but they're very peripheral and mocked for being a bit out of order, isn't it? But, yeah, there's a couple of sort of husbands and boyfriends and stuff that are. Sometimes it's a bit mean. No, it's fine. What? Fresh Hell by Lucy vine is published by Orion and is available to buy now. If you have any questions for three books, email us on Presenters. If you have any questions for three books, email us on presentersomensradiostation.com or tweet us @womensradio stn. That's Women's Radio stn. You've been listening to three books on women's Radio Station with me, Angela Clarke. If you'd like to listen again, or to catch up on our previous programs, you can head to the presenters page on womensradiostation.com thanks for listening. We care about social change within communities around the world and we want to help. This is why Women's Radio Station is giving free airtime to all charities. For more details on charity advertising, visit our website@www.womensradiostation.com. hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new vibrant brand connecting women socially. 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