Trending With Dr. Pam Spurr – Yvie Burnett, Afua Adom, Jo Hemmings

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Instead, we're going to be tackling issues that matter to you with my fabulous guests. So let me get stuck straight in and welcome my first guest, who is a renowned vocal coach and TV personality. You have seen her on so many different shows. You can find her@evie burnett.com and on social media like Twitter and Instagram, she's at Evie Burnett. And I'm delighted that she's going to be joining me. Hello. Hi. Lovely to see you. I was thinking about the. Actually, the last time I saw you face to face was one of Lizzie Cundy's birthday parties a couple years ago. And it's been a long time. And I know I invited you to my art exhibition back in March just before lockdown, but you weren't able to make it. But it's so great to actually see you. So lovely to see you. It's just so lovely to see people and be like, almost pretend that this is real life. Exactly. There is real life still out there, despite us being in our next lockdown. Now, I just wondered how 2021 has kicked off for you. So far so good, really. I just kind of feel same old, same old. I don't feel shocked by it. You know, I kind of almost was expecting, you know, with the figures and everything, that this was going to happen, that we were going to be back in lockdown. So I don't feel particularly depressed by it. I do like a new year. I like that new start, you know, getting Back to running, getting back to healthy eating, that sort of stuff. So I've still got that impetus. And, you know, obviously that's the only good thing about being locked down is we've got the time to kind of do things like that, to help ourselves, you know, So I feel fine about that. Oh, that's really good. And that's a positive approach to it. And I. And I. And I kind. I can totally understand what you're saying. I felt we were heading this way too, and so I just. Was just prepared. This is what's going to happen and we have to make the most of it. And would you say that's normally your kind of attitude towards life that, you know, make the most of things? Do you see the silver linings in clouds? I think I do. It's maybe something that's come with age. I don't think I was always like that. And I think when you're younger, you know, you want more and more and more. And then I think you maybe get to an age where you sort of sit back and think, I like the simple things in life. I don't want to be out partying. I don't want to be this and that. And I've got. Which is my really simple, normal life. Am I there? Are you there? I heard, yeah, it sort of cut out a little bit. Oh, yeah, sorry about that. It's probably my wi fi. Well, I hope it keeps working. At least it's getting there now, of course, you are a renowned vocal coach, also singer. And I just wondered, at what point in your life did you realize you had a voice? I mean, were you a little girl or was it something that came later? Well, I was a very little girl. I would be about 7 years old, something like that. And I was at school and we were doing in the Twelve Days of Christmas and everyone had a line and everyone else was on the first day of Christmas, you know, normal kiddies voices. And I was. And everyone was sort of thinking, what on earth? And I didn't know I had a voice like that. But even at that age I had an operatic voice. And it just so it shows me I didn't choose it. You know, I started even as a child, having to do concerts, and I was just Yvonne, as I'm really known, but don't tell anyone. Yvonne the singer, you know. So it became. It was just part of me from a very young age. Wow. Well, we've just had our first comment about your voice saying, oh, nice voice from Ali. Thank you for that. Ali. Yes. I was like, wow, thanks, Ali. It might have been. Sounded awful. It's usually too loud. That's a problem if you're an opera singer, you know, you don't realize just how far it carries, because that's what it's meant to do. So obviously, this was very young. Were your parents kind of, you know, pushing you along and thinking, wow, she does have a voice. This is great. Or what happened? Well, this is a long story, really, but it's all about northeast Scotland. And in northeast Scotland, where I was brought up, you don't boast and you don't go on about your talent and you don't push forward and any of that stuff. You just sort of are quietly confident. So that's a problem, really, because I was always sort of kept back, in a way, and nowadays I see kids of that sort of age being stars very early and being pushed into this and that, you know, and in a way, I think it would have been easier for me if I'd been allowed to be a little bit more confident and being pushed a bit more. But, you know, that's just the way. So I've often always suffered from confidence as a singer because of the way I was brought up. And, you know, I think very much so that, you know, I wasn't pushed to do it, but it just. It just was inevitable, I think. Well, you know, and so often the themes I talk about here on the men's and women's radio stations is about the sort of our family influences on us and interesting you. You can feel the way it was very much that. That. Don't boast, you know, just get on with it. I've got to say, you've got lots to base about. Helen has just joined us and saying, nice voice. Good afternoon, ladies. And good afternoon to you, Helen. Yes. So taking it, then to the next level, you, obviously, you're a singer and you're also a voice coach and you've written the book about, yes, you can sing. Now, does that mean everyone, even myself, who has the worst singing voice in the world, that I could sing if I actually took lessons? Is that possible? Yes, that's really why I wrote the book, because as soon as I became, you know, people would know me and come up to me in the street and talk about singing? Everybody, Absolutely everybody says the same thing. Can anyone sing? Could I sing? Can anyone sing? And I had answered, yes, you can sing. Yes, you can sing so many times that I decided to write a book called that. And really, it was a case of if you're absolutely tone deaf. I cannot make you not tone deaf. I can't. I'm not a magician, I'm a vocal coach. But if anybody has got a voice of sorts, we can improve it. You know, it's like somebody who runs half a mile a day, we can improve you and eventually you could run a marathon, maybe very slowly, maybe you're not going to be more far out, but you can improve it. And it's the same with the voice. It's a muscle and you can make the most of it. I like the running analogy because I love running and I know what you mean. When I had Covid quite badly last March and April, I couldn't run for about six to eight weeks, which for me is unheard of. And I actually felt quite well on top of the COVID about it, you know, sort of emotionally unwell because I couldn't get out and just release stress and boost those endorphins which running is so much about. And you run too. But interesting that you've liked and developing and I guess it is a muscle. So it is a good analogy, you know. Well, I always say to my singers that, you know, this is not going to be easy if you come to me for lessons. We're not just going to just sing a few songs. It's all very nice. I think of them as athletes and I want them to think of themselves as athletes because that's the only way you improve it. Because you think about this all compassing thing about your voice. It's to do with everything about it has to be perfect. And I think that's because my background is as an opera singer and we weren't allowed as opera singers to sing one single note, not perfectly. And that's hard because things are written a certain way and you have to sing it like that. Obviously in the pop world you just sing it the way you sing it and it's a lot more easy going. But still the same method of getting you to be good as thinking about an athlete is what I use, you know, so that's. My singers are bullied. Well, we've got Helen saying again, I only sing in the shower. And I will agree with that. I only sing in the shower so that there's no cats or dogs to kind of run. Scuttling under the shower. And we have Ali back saying, I'm listening and watching several thousand kilometers from you. This is what I love about being online, you know. I know, it's great, isn't it? The men's and radio women's radio station being online and how they can interact with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, you know, YouTube. So okay, taking that premise, have you ever though had someone come to you and pay good money and then you really can't help them and what do you do? How do you handle that? Or maybe you've never had that tone deaf person. Well, I haven't had tone deaf really, apart from in TV shows because they just throw anything at you. You know, I've even had parrots in TV shows. But anyway, that's another story. But as far as coming for lessons, I usually do a bit, you know, background on, you know, are you studying? Do you want. Because I don't want to waste their time or their money. So you know, they've got to have a fair idea of how to start and what they're going to do a lesson and prepare something. But I have had someone once came and I think he was bullied into it by his father and he traveled from up north, came down to my house and I said, right, so what would you like to sing for me? I don't know. And I said, well, anything, you know, just what's your favorite song? Let's sing that. I don't know. And this went on for sort of 10 minutes. Eventually I said, look, you've come for a singing lesson, you've come all the way. I just want you to sing a song so I hear your voice. I don't care if you sing Ba Ba Balakshi as long as you sing a song. And he went Ba Ba Balakshi. And honestly, I just nearly sent the boy pack in that minute because his father had spent the money and driven him all the way down. And that was, you know, so if you don't want to do it, don't do it. But if you've got that drive, you know, you can go and have singing lessons and you can improve. You will not improve if you can't even sing anything. But blah, blah, blah. She well, this show often comes back to well being because of course that's one thing the men's and women's radio station is all about. Well being and good mental health. Now what is your take on singing and music and well being? Singing? There's so many ways that your well being can be improved by just singing a song. You know, we all know that when we paint on a smile we actually eventually feel a bit better. And you know, isn't it from the King and I? I whistle a happy. Whenever I feel afraid I whistle a happy tune and I'm afraid that one. So you're sort of saying, just rattle that off like that. I need to remember the words. But you're saying, you can't be as brave as you make believe you are, that sort of thing. So that if you start singing, eventually you will feel better. You know, it's kind of hard. It's cheesy. It's a bit like in the Sound of Music, you know, Maria makes the von Trapp children sing My Favorite Things, Take the mind off the storm and, okay, sing My Favourite Things. You know, just sing something really cheesy or do a big belter like I Will Survive Gloria Gaynor. You start feeling that you're gonna survive. You know, you just think, I can get through this. So, yes, singing does make you feel better. But also, I totally agree. I mean, I often say to people when I'm just coaching them, say. And I say, well, what is your anthem? What's the song that you hear when it's on the radio that you've got on your playlist that just makes you feel good? And they'll say, whatever it is, you know, And I'll say, that's what you need to keep in mind when you're out there. Maybe you're facing something daunting. Maybe, you know, maybe you've had a bad day. Just get that anthem in your mind and let it lift you up and then play it when you can, you know? And, you know, I just think that's so important that. That element to music and singing. And even if you don't have a good voice, as Helen was saying about in the shower, I feel great when I sing in my terrible flat voice in the shower. It makes me feel good. And then you set you up for the day, and I think that's really, really important. Now we've got some other comments of. Helen says that my mom said her voice was really good, but as she's got older, it's not as good. And it makes her sad about singing because she loves singing. What would you say about older voices? You know, how can we keep them young? Or what works? Well, you were talking at the athlete analogy again, in that if we don't use it, we lose it. So you have to build it up now. There's nothing. There's not an age when you can't keep building it up. You know, my voice for my age is good because, you know, good technically, because I'm not saying it's good because I work at it. You know, I work at the muscles. And especially if you can look up Diaphragmatic Breathing. Or you could buy my book. Yeah, Chromatic Breathing and you find out how to breathe properly as a singer and you can start training your voice. It's amazing how much better someone who is a little bit older can get and how any of us can improve. I find if I don't sing for two weeks, I sound awful and I can train it back up within a couple of days. So it's like running. If we go and run. If we haven't run for two weeks, you can't just go straight out and do 10 miles. You've got to build it back up. So hopefully her mum can do that. Definitely. Yes, you can sing. The book I'm going to get too. Maybe Helen can get it for her mom. It can be online. You can look up Diaphragmatic Breathing, but it really, really does help. I want to talk to you about a couple other things, and one is that you thinking of doing a counseling course. And when I heard this, I was like, yes, because you strike me as such an empathic and naturally warm person. And I think that's really important when you're thinking about embarking on a counseling course, that you just have those basic qualities. I was like, wow. So tell me about this kind of new beginning. I always love to hear about new beginnings, when people branch into something different. Even if you're still going to be doing your vocal coaching, tell me about the counseling. Potentially, I think we're all thinking of different things we could possibly do because obviously we're not working as much. My business is sort of falling apart. I'm still doing online singing lessons, but I'm not on tour with my singers, going all over the world doing that sort of stuff. And I'm not doing what I would usually do. So I've got time. But also, I think I've always felt with my singers that it's maybe 70% singing, 30% counseling, or sometimes the other way around, because, you know, I've got to get them on stage when they're really feeling that they can't do it and I've got to talk them through it. And I think sometimes I think to myself, goodness me, you've spent some so much time counseling this person as to, you know, why they don't feel they can do it. And I know, as I said to you from my own experience of not being confident, that I've kind of realized how to help myself and how to help them. And so it seems quite a natural transition. I would help people who Are not singers, perhaps. Yes. I hadn't. I hadn't thought because we hadn't spoken about. We'd just been in email about this and so to hear that kind of take that you feel you have had to take that counseling role in with singers. But I'm guessing. Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, a lot of people, like, I know an agent who works in a different field, not. Not in singing, but an agent for, you know, celebrities, whatever, and they hate the kind of mothering role. They don't like that counseling role. So if they're. One of their stars, has an issue, they go hire someone for them. And so it's interesting that you naturally had that. And that's a great start for someone, you know, considering taking a counseling course. May I just ask, were there any tours like last year or this year or potentially that you were talking about with singers that were cancelled due to lockdown? I mean, have you actually had things stopped like that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, this wasn't an official cancellation because it was never announced. But, for example, you know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that Sam Smith had a new album out and obviously we were then going to tour that album, even though he announced, you know, so I'm not saying something that. Oh, my, how can you say that? But, you know, so we hadn't. There were no bookings as such, but things were being talked about. So, for example, we didn't go on tour, you know, so I was going to be doing stuff with Louis Capaldi. We didn't. Thankfully for him, he was in position where he was about to write his album. So with singers, they write an album, the album comes out, then they tour it usually. Exactly. Lewis was lucky because we literally just finished the day we went into lockdown. We thought we were going to be closed down. So we got the whole tour finished and then we locked down this next day. So he was lucky because the way he is in that circle that I've talked about, he's writing the album bit, so it's perfect for lockdown. But with Sam, it was kind of the other way around. It was. We had just started to promote an album and he has an astounding voice, Sam Smith, doesn't he? It must be so cool to work with someone with what I call a really unusual voice to my ears. So, yeah, that's. That's really disappointing. But hopefully maybe he can tour the album once this is all over and he'll be fine. Exactly. Yeah. I don't think we need to worry about his. I mean, all these singers who are at the top of their game, they'll be fine. They will. It'll be hard for them, them, but they'll get there and they'll do their tour and their albums are still selling. The ones I feel really sorry for is I have a lot of up and coming singers and they were just at that stage where they were about to be signed or they'd just been signed. Now what will happen to them? Will the record company stand by them and bring out their stuff or will they just fall by the wayside? That's the tough bit. The ones who were just at that cusp of breaking through. Yes. No, that is really tough. The entertainment industry has suffered so much now. Another thing I wanted to run past you was talking about lockdown and people missing out things. There was a survey just out about singles facing the next lockdown. They're looking for love. They're locked down again and how depressing that is for people who really want to be sharing their life with someone. And now we're a year almost where singles have had their plans scuppered. So I was reading the survey and I was thinking, I've got a couple single friends who are in this situation once again, another lockdown, you know, when they had hope, maybe 20, 21 might bring them Mr. Or Mrs. Right. So, but what I was thinking, one thing that singles in lockdown will not be missing out on is bad dates. Haven't we all had bad first dates? So that's one thing that they can, won't have because if they're online and they're talking to people online, then we will be, you know, we can rest assured that they can take their time getting to know someone and when they finally meet up, they probably won't have a bad first date. Someone Stephen Smith has just joined saying, oh, we love Dr. Pam. Thank you, Stephen. Love you back. He was on the show a month ago, so I'm glad he's joined the show today. So I want to ask you, I know you were very happily with your other half, but do you remember the days back when you were single and did you have any bad dates? Because I certainly did. Well, I, I mean, I. We celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary just before, just before the end of the year. So my memory isn't that good for dating. But I do remember that obviously I was really young when I went on dates and hard off, I was a student when I was going on dates and I was dating people who were Also hard up. So I don't remember having a single exciting, glamorous date. You know, you see all these people, you know, somebody takes them to Paris for lunch and on a little holiday somewhere. I didn't have anything like that. I was lucky if they would just take you out for a packet of chips. So, to me, I just think that's the one thing that actually, I think I missed out on by only dating when I was that age, that my friends who are a little bit older and who are dating are getting some amazing date. Well, not now, but, you know, when we can date again. Dating can be exciting if you're actually a little bit older and you're with someone who's maybe a little bit better. Well, I'm kind of disappointed that you didn't have some terribly bad date to recount for us today. I'm sorry, I don't. I really think. I just don't remember a good one is what I mean. But I just. I can't. They weren't good enough to be that bad or to talk about, unfortunately. Well, I'll share a quick one with you when just come out of my divorce. I divorced my first husband. I had very young children. It was not a happy time. But I was set up with a very eligible bachelor who'd actually been in Cosmopolitan's top 50 eligible bachelors that year. Because, you know, Cosmo used to always do that feature. I'm sure they don't do it. We met at a wine bar and we were ordering a full dinner, and we've been set up by this mutual friend. And within our starters arriving on the table, he took my hand and it was a couple weeks before, like, Easter. And he said, we're going to be having sex by Easter. And I went, what? And he said, yes, we're going to be having sex by Easter. And I said, do you think I'm a desperate divorcee? Do you think that because I've just divorced, I'm gonna be desperate for your affection? And I was like, no, sorry, mate. And I just left. I just said, no, you're not for me. And I thought, I'm not putting up with it. So that was like, you know, you can be the most eligible bachelor in the whole of the uk. One of them. But you can still really not have a nice attitude to David. So that was one of mine. I've got far too many to mention, but, yeah, that. That really. I might think of some, but I can't. I'll wait near all of yours. But that left Me feeling like, yeah, just because someone looks good on paper, when you actually meet, they might not be like they are. And this is what people. I mean, I do a lot of date coaching and a lot of people find this, that they've been chatting online, the banter's great, but when they actually meet face to, there's something, oh, it's like not right, you know. No, I can imagine. And that's scary. And I keep thinking, I keep feeling so thankful that I'm not dating, you know, apart from the lockdown thing, it's just the thought of all that palaver bit, you know. Well, listen, we only have a minute left and I just wanted to quick ask you, what is your. You mentioned confidence and how when you were young it wasn't bred in you to kind of feel the confidence to get on stage and really do your thing and maybe push yourself a bit further in those early days of your career. I mean, you've had an have an amazing career, so we're not going worry about that now. But what is your tip for people who are feeling a lack of confidence? What would you say? What can they do? It's hard to believe in yourself if you don't. But I think you've just got to take it baby steps. You can't just say, right, today I'm going to feel confident and you just get yourself in this hole. You've just got to gradually say, well, I'm going to be confident about one thing today and then next week I'll be confident about one more thing. Maybe, you know, you've done your nails, you've managed to grow your nails, they are looking better. Then you think, oh, I managed to blow dry my hair. Do you know what I mean? You can't do everything in one day. And I think when you're younger, you want to do it all at once and you want to have the confidence to sing and the confidence to act and the confidence to look good and blah, blah, blah. And when you're our age, you just sort of think, oh, I'm glad that today my hair went well or today, you know, I managed to put on something that matched, so don't beat yourself up. I'd basically say, I think that is excellent advice and that goes for any age. It doesn't matter, you know, a teenager or, you know, or beyond that. That is really good advice and I know you're going to make a good counselor because I love that advice. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Eva. And I just want to mention again, that people can find you@evieburnette.com on social media, vbrennette and of course your book is yes, you can sing. Next time I have you on, I will dare to have you give me a singing lesson. Oh yes, let's do that. Fabulous. Lots of love to you. Thank you again for joining me. You take care. Bye bye. Bye. That was Evie Burnett and wow, what a fantastic interview. I loved what she had to say about, you know, her early days and confidence and, and everything else we just chatted about. Now I'm delighted that I'm going to be joined by my next guest who is an award winning writer, producer and who can be seen on practically every major news outlet. And that's where I first saw her talking with astute wisdom on a news program. Now on social media you can find her at Afiya the Scott and that's spelt a F U A the Scot. And I'm delighted that Afia Adom joins me now. Hello. Hi. Hi Dr. Fan. How are you doing? I'm fine. How are you? I'm good. I'm really good. Yeah, I'm good. It's cold out there. I'm glad to be indoors with you. Yes, yes, absolutely. And I know you're such a busy person, you were filming something this morning. Can you tell me with so many strings to your bow, what's kind of your main focus right now? Oh, that's a really good question. So the piece I was filming this morning is for Arise News. Now Arise News are an international news channel for an African focus or an African news channel with an international focus. And we're based in London and Lagos. So I'm doing a piece for them at the moment about what we can expect from culture and Entertainment in 2021. We know that, you know, the film industry stopped and started and changed the way they would deliver movies to us. So talking a bit about that, what's going to happen with theater in 2021 and also looking at var and music and how virtual and added reality became a part of music concert experience. So yes, that's what. Yeah, that and I love all that because I mean, I love to be entertained. And one thing I've found hardest in the last year we've all had, which other people have definitely found hard, is not being able to go out to shows, you know, not being able to see things live. I love live music. I love the theater. I am the same. I'm all about the theater and going to gigs. I would go to gigs two, three times a Month, you know, live music. That experience is just so amazing. And I was actually saying to a friend the other day, I so miss the theater. I just so miss the theater. And I got reminded just before Chris has popped up on Facebook that I was at the first showing of Hamilton in London, like, three years ago. And I remember it so clearly like it was yesterday because we were on the Circle and I had a broken foot and I was on crutches going up all these stairs. My friends are like, are you sure you want to do it? And I was like, it's Hamilton. If I had a broken neck, I would be here. But I just so missed that. But hopefully it's not too long before theaters can open up again. I can't wait. It's so funny that you mentioned Hamilton. This is like we're in parallel universes here, because we had tickets for after it was eventually closed, so we. We didn't get to see it. But then, of course, they did the live streaming of it that you know, one evening last year, which. So we kind of got to see it. But wow. I mean, lucky you that you got there before it was closed. I mean, quite a while before it was closed down. But I don't. I don't envy you going up the Circle with a broken foot. It was worth it, though. And Lin Manuel Miranda was sitting not far from me, as was Tina Tarnara. Oh, my gosh. Yes. I would have been. Yeah. Starstruck. Absolutely. Now, before we get into. Because what you're. You're. You are going to help me with today, and everybody is listening, is some uplifting films and television. But first, I just wanted to check with you. We're still quite early in January. What. Do you believe in resolutions? Do you make resolutions? Is that part of your life? That's a good question. You know, I'll be really honest. Up until my dad died a couple of years ago, and up until then, I would always make resolutions come New Year. And I found the Christmas after, or the New Year after my dad passed, I remember saying to my partner, I just can't bring myself to make any resolutions. It was a very sort of. It was a very strange time. And since then, I haven't made resolutions. It's been sort of three Christmases now or three New Years have passed, that I haven't made resolutions. And usually I would, but I think kind of, I don't know, something changed in me. And so I've just kind of always thought, just try and do the best I can. You know, I always Have a few things at the back of my mind I'd like to achieve or things I'd like to do, whether they be career or at home. Things like, you know, get rid of that lamp or try and, you know, work with this person. But I don't really do resolutions, I must admit. Well, I'm sorry for your loss. And I know when you lose a father or a mother, that that loss, it takes a very long time to get to the point where you can feel you. You're kind of handling it. But I wonder if his words used to be to you, do the best you can. The way you just said that, it sounded almost like you were channeling a parent who might say, just do the best you can. Yeah, I do think, actually, now that you said that, he would always say that, and he would always say, you know, your best is always good enough. So I think maybe I'm just channeling him all the time. And that's my. Maybe that's just my resolution from now on. Yeah, I love that. So, listen, let's begin with films. And the first one on your list is Soul by Disney plus. Now, I've heard a song, but I haven't seen it and I've heard it's brilliant and it's animated. So tell me about it. Yes. So this was Disney plus, this big sort of Christmas offering. So earlier on the year, you can imagine this would have gone to the cinema. A huge opening, a huge splash, a premiere, all the rest of it. Now it's all about online, isn't it? So this went straight onto Disney on Christmas Day. And this is not what you expect. So when I heard Soul, Jamie Foxx was one of the lead characters and the other lead character is voiced by Tina Fey. I love her. So I thought, oh, it's going to be jazz, because it's got that whole jazz element to it and it's going to be a lot of singing, dancing. It's not. There is jazz in it, don't get me wrong. But it's more about life and it's quite existential, if you will. So the story is about Joe, his music teacher, and he's struggling. He's always wanted to be a jazz musician and he's always searching for his big break. So he finally gets his big break, but then ends up falling down a manhole, essentially dies. Stay with me. But, however, ends up in the great beyond. And when he's in the great beyond, he has a chance whether to come back to life. But to do that, he has to help he has to help someone else find their purpose in life, basically. And that this little spirit called 22, who's played by Tina Fey. So yes, it's the animation in it possible. It's is absolutely incredible. And the message behind it is just really lovely. It's basically about that your, your work or your career doesn't necessarily have to be your purpose. And every day that you live is important and has wonderful experiences and should be valued. And the music in it was great, the message, and it was beautiful. There was not a dry eye in my living room when we were watching that film. So it's definitely such an incredible film. Like I said, not what you expect. For about 20 minutes I was like, I think I've got the wrong film guys, but stick with it. And it's beautiful. It's really, really, really lovely. You'll love it. Well, I love that message that you've just highlighted about, you know, maybe your career isn't your main purpose. Because in my work as a psychologist and coach, I've often had to work with people who define themselves totally by their career. So if they're having a slump in their career, life has come to an end. If they're having a high in their career, it's just the best thing ever. And you know, you need to iron out those ups and downs because every career has ups and downs. And so to make sure you define yourself in a mold more well rounded way is really important. So I can't wait to see Saul after what you've said, especially because I just think that is such a good, powerful message, you know, it really is, it really is. Because I think, you know, that's a lot and especially in the last year where so many people have perhaps lost their jobs, lost work, had to pivot, had to change what they've done, have to now become home educators and all the rest of it. And you know, when the things that we're used to have been taken away from us or we've had to adapt or we've had to change, when those benchmarks are not there, then we perhaps we start to think, hold on, who am I? What am I here for and what's my purpose? And I actually think soul couldn't have come at a better time. That reaffirmed for me I think definitely that every single day, whatever you do is so worth it and there's joy in everything. So definitely it's a great film. Well, that's fantastic to hear. Now your next film was Sylvie's Love. I haven't heard of this. And that's on Amazon Prime. Tell me about this. Now, this is just. Who's Sylvie? So Sylvie is basically, she's a Black woman in 1950s America, played by Tessa Thompson. And it's very simply a love story. Now, I find when you're going to watch a film that I. That has it's about black love or black romance, nine, nine times out of 10, there's going to be an element of trauma, whether it's violence, whether it's abuse. What I loved about this film is that none of that was present. It was very simply a story about Sylvie and her love. There was also a little bit about microaggressions and gender politics. She wants to be a TV producer in 1950s America and she's a black woman and she doesn't think she can do it, and she does. And she, you know, she has this amazing job, but she's also navigating, falling in love with someone who's a jazz musician. So, again, jazz musicians throughout, which I love, who moves away to New York, but then they get back in touch. This is simply a love story with jazz in gorgeous outfits. And I just loved it and I watched it and I came away feeling calm and warm. And just having seen a really beautiful love story played out on screen, it is just. It's just beautiful. And there's. There's no nudity in it, which I thought was very well done as well. The costumes are gorgeous. And it's simply a love story. And it's also a story about friendship, like Sylvie and her cousin who's her best friend in the conversations that she has, and then reaffirming her love with the spouse. It's just gorgeous. It's gorgeous. You will love it. And that's on Amazon prime streaming. And that's actually an Amazon original. Tessa Thompson, who's a black American actress, she produced it with Amazon as well. So an interesting project from them. And it's free on Amazon prime, so if you have Amazon, you can watch it. That sounds fantastic. And I think you're right. So often with even a love story, unless it's a rom com, there's often some crushing blow in the middle of it. And right now, if someone's looking for something that is soft and gentle but still powerful, then that's. That's a fantastic idea. So Sylvie's love. I'm definitely checking that out this weekend. Next you've got here Summerland, which is an Oscar contender on Amazon prime and Sky. So again, tell me about Summerland. I'm kind of a bit behind on. On films and TV right now. I've had a lot on recently. This is another great one and another lovely story. Like I said, an Oscar contender. So look out for this one of course have been pushed back to spring. So look out for this one and the buzz around it which will be building around now. You've got Gemma Arterton in the title role there in the lead role and she plays a recluse basically. There's some time switching between it. So it starts off in 1970s where she's kind of an older woman that kids are kind of scared of. She's a writer. She's tapping away in her writer. And then it goes back to the 1940s and basically tells the story of how maybe she ended up on her own and she was a writer that kind of debunked monks myths, if you are, if you will. And like I said, local kids are not very fond of our bit of a recluse. And it's the. It's wartime 1940s, so she gets an evacuee who comes to stay with her, a young boy. And it's about their relationship and obviously, you know, he. He brings out the love in her and sort of softens her up. You find out that she had a relationship in the 1920s with another woman played by Gugu Mbafa Raw. And of course 1920s, a lesbian relationship, very unheard of. They didn't end up together. You find out why they didn't end up together. That, you know, the two of them had this amazing love story and the little boy and her, you know, have this love story together as well. And it's just another film that's just beautiful. Very life affirming. Gemma Arterson's brilliant in the title. I also think Guggen Batha Raw is another actress who's been overlooked, but she's amazing in it as well. And I definitely think this one could do well at the Oscars. And it's actually one of the ones or one of the rare ones which hasn't come from a streaming service. A lot of the Oscar contenders are going to come from Netflix, are going to come from Disney. Actually. It is taken over film. Exactly how the industry has kind of, you know, gone on its head. And I think we'll see that in this year's Oscars will be quite unusual, but this is one of the ones which has come from a big studio and is definitely going to do very well again, very life affirming. Lovely. And available across, across streaming services. So Amazon prime, you can get it on sky, no TV if you've got any of those. So yeah, a great one. Yeah. And, and you mentioned the 20s and her lesbian relationship and of course it was the roaring twenties. But you know, you had to hide those things for, you know, fear of, of all sorts of retribution if you didn't. So that, that's interesting again to go back in time and sort of see those things viewed how they would have been now that we're much more open, thankfully, about, about relationships and who you choose to love. But no, another one. I'm going to add to my, my list now. How about the high note? That rings a bell. So I must have seen a promo for it that's on sky and Amazon Prime. It is now. This one was actually out in the middle of last year. I just discovered it this weekend and it's just amazing. I just love it. Again, it's got music at the, the heart and it's got Tracee Ellis Ross, who, if you don't know, is Diana Ross's daughter, this amazing actress. And in it she kind of plays her mother, kind of. So she's playing a singer who's in her 40s. She's given the chance to have an, a Las Vegas residency. She decides she wants to make another album and she's got this young PA who wants to be a producer, kind of persuades her to make the album and the two of them are making the album together. And it's Dakota Johnson. That's it, who plays her pa. And she's very good in that role. She's not stripping off in this role. No, thankfully. Definitely a world away from 50 Shades. But this is really funny. I mean, Tracey Ellis Ross is a great comedic actress as well as having a really great voice, which I think, think she's kind of overlooked for because she does a lot of comedy that she can sing as well and she does in the film. And it's just so funny. The two of them are really, really funny together. Dakota Johnson has another love story in it as well. So that's a kind of little subplot, but it's just really feel good. It's a classic feel good comedy film. There's music in it. So definitely this will be one to cheer you up. I knew I'd heard of it and when you recounted the story behind it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I must add it to my list now we only have time for one more and I know you particularly liked something you'd seen on tv. Sound Exploder. Yes. So tell me about that. This is on Netflix. So Song Exploder started as a podcast hosted by. I hope I get this right. Hirishikesh her way. And basically it's a podcast that deconstructs songs. So basically. And this has been picked up by Netflix. So imagine the first episode had Alicia Keys and she talks about a song, talks about the lyrics, how it came together, how she worked with the musical directors, instruments, and then you'll see her actually in the studio with the producers talking about the song, talking about how they put it together, and then they have a performance at the end. Now I kind of was flicking through Netflix and discovered this and I was like, oh, I like Alicia Key. I have a look at this. Oh, my goodness. I watched the whole season, which is four episodes of first season in one sitting. And doctor, you'll love this because Lin Manuel Miranda is in it and he does a song from Hamilton. It's Aaron Burr's song and it's. And I love Alicia Keys. Exactly. It's just such a good little series. And the second season, which is just out now, has Dua Lipa, Nine Inch Nails, the Killer for Carde in it as well. Well, fantastic. Just brilliant. It's just so, so good. So easy to watch. He's a great host and you get to see some of your favorite artists talk about their favorite songs from their album. It's like a dream come true on TV for me. So definitely have a look at that one. Thank you so much. Those all sound like brilliant recommendation recommendations when we need something to uplift us and boost our spirits in this sort of blue January. So thank you for joining me. Now people can find you on Twitter and Instagram @afia the Scott. And as I said, it's spelled a fu a the Scott. And thank you so much. I know you're very busy for taking the time with to come here today. Thank you so much for having me. Bye bye, bye bye. Now I've got one more guest for you today. Fantastic guest today. I just, I'm just so lucky. Now she's Jo Hemmings. She's a behavioral psychologist. You will have seen her on, on countless radio and TV shows. On Twitter you can find hervpsychologist and her website is joehemings.co.uk I'm delighted to welcome Jo to the show today. Hello, darling. Hello. How are you? I'm so well. I'm not used to seeing you like over Skype. We're usually on the phone. So nice to see you. Even though it's not in person. It's been way too long or we used to at least meet up in person and now. Yeah, it's just. Let's get on the phone. But thank you for joining me today. Now we're going to be talking about love, cheats and infidelity and whether people can recover from it. But first, something you and I talked about in a recent phone call was that, yes, there's been a huge increase for some people with mental health problems getting worse, some people developing new mental health health problems. But you and I both have come across people who have found a positive experience for the mental health during the lockdowns and the tears and just wanted to hear more about your thoughts on that. Yes, I think, you know, there are a lot of people, particularly in the winter months, who don't particularly want to go out. They sort of nest a bit. There are people who have sad, as we do both get sad. Seasonal affect disorder. Neither of us like the dark. There are introverts who are not particularly sociable, who find it awkward to have to keep turning down invites or being obliged to go somewhere when actually I'd much rather sit indoors and watch telly and be on their own. There are people who love their own company, who are quite solitary again, who prefer not. Not to be mixing with people. So for them it's the perfect excuse really to not have to either do something they don't want to do, turn down something, you know, for the same reasons, and actually sort of just get on with their life pretty much as they were before, but without the added pressure of expectation on them to. To be more sociable. I think that's a really good point, that people are naturally inclined to want to hunker down. I'm not quite sure why I'm. Why I'm echoing, but apologies for that. But the other thing also I've noticed is that some people with anxiety, day to day, they find there's so much choice, like when they go to work, they've got choices of how they're going to handle a project, which colleagues are going to meet with, whatever. And some people have said to me too, almost some choice has been taken out of their hands and so that's kind of made them feel less anxious. It has, because it's been very limiting the amount of choices you've got, therefore you can't be overwhelmed by what to do. We're so restricted, as you say, in that choice. And also actually, interestingly, people who had a predisposition to anxiety before restrictions are the ones who've learned the coping mechanisms to deal with their anxiety. Actually, it's for those who've never experience that therefore have never exercised any coping techniques or know what to do, perhaps have had a greater amount of anxiety during this lockdown than those that, that have practiced meditation or breathing techniques, whatever. Yeah, yeah. So now one thing that I, I was thinking about in terms of, of love cheats. There was some survey out in the last few months about levels of cheating were still quite high despite lockdown, which I kind of. And tears system. I kind of felt that quite hard to get my head around because you're thinking people aren't going out, you know, how are they managing this? Well, whatever. People were managing this. So I wanted to talk to you about people trying to overcome infidelity. Because 60% of couples do stay together after cheating has been discovered. What do you recommend at first for them to go forward? What's the first step? Do you think that. I think I also looked at that survey and what was really fascinating about it was that cheating in women had gone up by 40% last year. How do they manage it? How did they manage it? How did they meet anybody? Where did they get the opportunities? But there it is. It went up by 4, 40%. But going back to, you know, how couples deal with it, I mean, obviously you've got to talk about, you've got to communicate with each other. You, you know, there's a lot of suspicion about infidelity. It's not necessarily good to confront someone because some of the signs of infidelity, such as, you know, being a bit sneaky with their mobile phone or coming home late or making excuses, can be for all sorts of other reasons. So I think, you know, you have to work out and decide what it is. Why did that happen? I mean, there's a world of different. And also how you define cheating. I mean, it's cyber cheating, you know, where, where you're sort of chatting up somebody online. Micro cheating, you know, you're having fantasies about other people. I mean, the, you know, some people that that's okay and they can get through it. For others, that's a real betrayal. I wanted to just make a point there. I think it's. When I'm talking with your mic, it's. I don't know why there's interplay. Sorry for everybody listening. I didn't have this on the previous guest system. The thing is that it's really distracting, isn't it? Sorry about this. Fine. To me, that's. So can you, can you hear the, all the rattling it's making. Okay, well then maybe I can hear it. So that's okay. The thing is that a lot of people who were say how they define cheating. I say if your partner was looking over your shoulder and you were flirting with someone online and your partner was upset, then I pretty much count that as cheating. So if you're hiding a flirtation just and you're calling it, oh, but I'm just flirting online with them, that's actually cheating. If you wouldn't do it in front of your partner, it is a litmus test. If you would do that in front of your partner, then it's not cheating, that kind of flirting. I think you're absolutely right. And I suppose you've got to look at the reasons and talk about the reasons why. I mean, some people do cheat for sexual reasons because they want sex elsewhere. Some people cheat because they're avoidant of other issues going on in their life and they're getting some comfort from it. Some are serial cheats. You know, there are so many reasons. You've got to get to the bottom of it. I think with couples, you know, it's pretty high. You say 6%. I think it might be nearer 70. That stay together after infidelity is a very, very high number. Yeah. Which means that somehow they have come to some sort of resolution and understood they don't. They may have forgiven people never really forget, but they are able to move on from it. And if you know how happily they move on in those circumstances. But if they have children, very often that's the reason why they stay together. They have a shared business. They often say together that. Or if they have families who are highly religious, sometimes that's the reason. So there are different reasons why they stay together, but it is how successfully they move forward. One point I wanted to make was that I've been involved in a survey behind the scenes survey. It was a decade ago, but still we found sort of four main reasons why people cheated. And as you mentioned, there's the serial risk taker who enjoys the risk. There's an opportunist who just in a drunken moment at a conference did something they regret. Then there's kind of the revenge cheat who actually has been cheated on. They go, right, okay, I'm cheating on you, let's settle the score. And finally there's like the midlife crisis cheat where people are asking themselves, is this it? I've been with this person for 25 years, is there something better? And I wonder, do those main reasons Resonate with you and the work you do with people. For Platinum magazine a few. A couple of months ago. So I printed this out. Yeah, pretty much. I've used slightly different terminology. One other I would probably say is emotional comfort. I mean, if there is something in your marriage which. Where you are feeling neglected in some way on an emotional level, people often turn to infidelity as a way, perhaps a misguided way, but nevertheless a way of getting that kind of. Of attention that they're craving, which they're not getting from their partners. So what do you think the first step is then? I mean, I've often said to people, just don't make a rash decision, particularly if there's children involved. If you've discovered an affair, don't immediately send them packing. It can be highly disruptive if you have children. And so the very first thing is just stay put how you are. While you have that wave of horrible emotions. What would you say would be the next step? I think one of the most difficult things is actually plucking up the courage by either the one who's cheated to admit it or the one who's found out they're cheating to talk to them about it. That's almost your hardest step. Once you've acknowledged that and you both agree that is the case, assuming you don't get some vehement denial that continues, I think you've got to go back and think, you know, when did that start? What were the reasons? When did you first sort of feel a sense that you needed somebody else? As you say, the opportunist Cheetah is very different, I think, in a lot of ways. You know, it was the drunken snog at the Christmas party. We don't have Christmas parties anymore. We can rule them out, but. And then what will happen? I think you can either go and see, you know, a marriage guidance or relationship guidance counselor who will always be impartial and listen to the two of you. You can talk about how you can move on from that. Are you willing, both willing to move on from it, and it will change your relationship. For some couples actually report their relationships as stronger after because they've got now into the air, into the open issues they had that led to it. Yeah, that led to it in the first instance. So for some lucky couples, that's. It's a good thing. It's benefited their relationship and made it stronger. I don't think you should be throwing. Once you've dealt with it, I think there's probably a period of time which is a bit fragile for both of you in terms of trust and hurt and guilt. And I think that's a period of time to work through gently. I do not think it's a good idea ever to bring it up again if you're having some sort of petty row about something to throw it back at somebody. Because all the time. Yeah, or any time, because it's not really part of dealing with it. That's just. It's a cheap shot. So you've got to be sort of grown up about it really. And. And I also. Part of that is also the detail. I always say the person who's been cheated on should set the agenda for how much detail they get. If they want every nitty gritty part to hear about the affair and the sex and whatever, that's their prerogative. But be careful what you wish for. If you're asking for that much information, I mean, be very careful. And I think it's very tough, tempting, because people want to understand better why it happened, to have that nitty gritty. But sometimes having that level of detail will linger a long time. And it's almost more disturbing because you keep visualizing your head and it's almost more disturbing than the act itself because you're just picturing, you know, fine detail of what they did. I think it's a mistake to ask for too much information and, and expect your partner to give it to you because I think it, it actually prolongs the distress. Yeah. Because it does paint pictures in your mind that you might not have had. So. So moving on. I think it's, it, as we say, it's really important that it doesn't get used as something to batter the cheater over with. If you're going to stay with them and you're arguing about, you know, how you're going to spend your money or how to raise your kids. The affair shouldn't be brought into it. And long term, trying to gain knowledge of why this happened are probably the most crucial things we've discussed. Before we go. Any final advice you would give in this situation. Doing some relationship can. Counseling myself. There are two instances I find the most sad of already. One is that sadly we're gonna be very quick so it, it can't go any further. And the other one is when people simply can't afford the parts because they can't afford two homes. So they're the questions, they're the what the things that are most difficult. Thank you for joining me, Jo. And you can find you on Twitter @TVPsychologist and your website, johemmins.co.uk and thank you to everyone who's listened in today and all the people who sent comments. And I'll be back in a fortnight with another show and more fantastic guests. And in the meantime, I hope you really look after yourself. Take on board some of the advice we've heard today about confidence and if you find yourself in a situation having been cheated on. And also those uplifting shows that were given to us by Afia Adon and. And look after yourself until it's going to be a fortnight when I'm back with trending Dr. Pam here on the men's and women's radio station. So you take care. There's lots going on out there. Lots of love to you. Thank you so much. Are you feeling anxious? Online therapy 24. 7 is here to help. We offer confidential support from the comfort of your own sofa. Our highly qualified therapy therapists are experienced in a full range of daily challenges. You'll be in safe and trusted hands. Don't suffer alone. Change your life by calling us on 220-755-5080. And check out our website, onlinetherapy24.7, com.