Upkeep

Sam. Hi, I'm Patsy. And I'm Angie. And welcome to this week's episode of Open. So what are we talking about this week? Remind me, Ange. Well, some people call it back and front or Jack and Danny or vaginas. We're talking about vaginas, yes. Now, as a trans woman, I know that your vagina is very important to you. So do you want to start by telling us what your transformation was actually like? Well, I hate that word, transformation, because you don't transform. I just found peace within my own body. And some people don't go on to have a full transition. In other words, gender confirming surgery. They just stop at the secondary sexual characteristics, which are hair and none of the primaries. Okay, so can you explain to our listeners exactly the procedure that you underwent? I actually had a very, very new specific procedure which is not a inversion technique. And what does that mean? I'm reasonably familiar with it, but for listeners who aren't sure what that involves, what is that and why did you choose not to have that? Well, because it was a very outdated technique. It was actually developed in by Sir Howard Gillies, and for me, it did not replicate or mimic that of a biological woman in any shape or form. Now, he was a sort of pioneer for plastic surgery. He had started out by doing plastic surgery on soldiers, faces that were blown up and all that sort of thing. And then he then took that practice onto performing. Well, at that time, it was actually illegal. It was illegal. But he was the first person to. Well, he pioneered. He pioneered that surgery. And what does that involve, the inversion? Well, the inversion. The original inversion technique was they'd actually get a scalpel, cut an incision down the midline of the scrotum, deglove the penis, amputate all the erectile tissue, and then shorten the urethra, sew it all up, create a cavity, and then basically it's like a sock being turned inside out. You just push it into that cavity and then you put a form in there and then that's it. And why didn't you want to. Why did you not choose to have that done? Because I wanted something that was gonna be functional, aesthetically pleasing to the eye and also sensitive. You know, that was my, you know, I think it's a human birthright. Yeah. To enjoy sexual intimacy and pleasure. So you went and found a surgeon who was doing a very new technique. I wouldn't say new. It was a different. He had his own patient in technique and it was abroad and it wasn't in this country. It took me ages to. And I also wanted to see patients that actually had that surgery by that surgeon, which, as you can imagine, was quite difficult, but I did find two and they were extremely happy and it did meet my criteria. So what happens in this surgery? Well, it's very similar to what they do, but this surgeon doesn't actually amputate anything. He saves everything. The only thing he does is he splits the erectile tissue down the middle, shortens the urethra and then creates the cavity and lines it with the erectile. Erectile tissue. Then on top of that, he. He lines that with a skin graft, which is taken from the groin area. Yeah. Which you can't see. And then he fashions the labia majora and the menorah with the scrotal tissue. Yeah. And yes, it was a very long operation and yes, it was very, very painful. It sounds. It sounds excruciating. So my next question is, how do you stop it from closing up? Well, what I realised very, very quickly after that surgery and the packing was taken out is that you have to have, four times a day, hourly dilations with this long form. It looks like a hard dildo, but it's not. It's actually a medical form to keep the orifice open. Right. And was that something that you knew that you would have to do? I knew, but the enormity of it. I didn't realize how draining and painful it is. Imagine trying to put something in a wound four times a day and then you have to, you know, clean yourself up and douche and then put all the, you know, the ointments and antibiotic lotions and potions on. And it basically. I had to do that for one year, Patsy. And you still do that. You still have to do that every day. When you have gender reassignment surgery or gender, especially from a male to a female, you have to do that to the day you die. So either that or you have organic dilation. What's organic dilation? Having sex too. Oh, sex. Okay, so that's a new. I think that's a new term that our listeners can use. Or the old one. In and out, dear. You're going to have lots of. I hope our listeners are going to enjoy lots of organic dilation of Christmas. Anyway, so does it. My next question then is, does it really work? I mean, we know that vaginas come in all different shapes and sizes. Does it really work in terms of cessation? Well, in terms of sensation, in terms of peeing. Does it. It works. Does it Work above and beyond a natal CIS woman's vagina. So you're saying that you're actually more sensitive than me, Is that what we're saying? Well, yes, I am, sadly. I mean, does it, is that, is that something too I should be ashamed of? No, of course not, of course not. But I just think it's. Oh, you know. Oh, well, I mean, it's one of those things that, that is, is great for you. And you know, I'm thinking, oh, well, it was, it was very, very difficult. The first time I actually had a bit of organic dilation because I didn't know what to expect. So in terms of sensation, it's amazing. And then what about in terms of, of peeing, of keeping it healthy, of maintaining. As I said to you earlier, the title of this week's show is called upkeeping, I should say so in terms of upkeep. What, what? Well, I have to continue to dilate. If I'm not having organic dilation, I have to douche and clean out the cavity after I've dilated. Yes. And that's about it. And then apply an estradiol cream to keep the tissues pliable. Yeah. And that's all I know. I mean, I remember the first time actually I got thrush and also cystitis. I've never had cystitis ever before in my life. And that was such an eye opener to me. Yeah. And the fact that I have to wear pads. I mean, nobody told me that. I was so angry. I said, nobody's actually told me that to have a vagina you have to maintain it and look after it and treat it like a. It's like having a plant. Yeah, but you do. I don't think anyone's ever described it as having a plant, but you have to give it loving care. I just thought it was a bit like having a puppy, isn't it, like. Well, I would. I mean, I think I never knew that it was going to involve long term commitment, upkeep and upkeep. Yeah. Because you know, for me it was something alien to me. Yeah. And to have that after many, many years without one was a real learning curve, Patsy. So now you've got it when you've had it for how long? Over a decade. Over a decade. Do you like it? Are you. When you, when you're naked now in front of a mirror, do you like what you see? Do you, you know, look at your body? I've shown it as, you know, Patsy, everyone's seen my vagina. I've got photograph on with it on my phone. I absolutely adore my vagina because to me, it. I just think it's beautiful and it completes me as a person. It's given me confidence when I never had any. But one thing also I learned is that I'm very, very selective and protective who I let go near it. Because when you've got. That, you don't realize and you've worked so hard and it's not even about. I mean, in terms of coming through so much to actually arrive at this, at this point in your life. I never realized the psychological impact of having a vagina was going to be like you. Actually, it made me realize how vulnerable women are because you're inviting somebody within. I mean, when I was working as a sex worker, I didn't like myself, so I didn't take it on board. Yes. But when you like yourself and you're a true representation, you're very, very funny and protective. Who goes near you or especially who's gonna penetrate you? It's a different experience, isn't it, from being. From penetrating somebody to being penetrated and allowing somebody to. That's why rape is so. Allowing somebody inside your body. Well, that's why rape is such a brutalized action towards a woman or a man, you know, because it is that emulation of. Well, they're inflicting on you or penetrating you with something that you don't wish to be penetrated with. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I found that very. I didn't think I would be that worried about it, but it actually became such. It still is an important thing for me. So that's an immensely interesting sort of inversion, really, of what you thought in terms of you having this gender reassignment surgery. But then it came with all this psychological stuff that perhaps you hadn't really envisioned. But in a way, Patsy, I'm actually glad that it's been like that because for me, it was unexpected, but also it made me respect myself and who I shared myself with. So psychologically, it's a positive for me. So my question again is. So when you look in the mirror, are you. I love it. You love it. So I think our message over Christmas. Well, one of our messages of the show is to all women, love your vagina. And lots of organic dilation girls. Lots of. Lots of organic dilation. Well, thank you so much, Angie. We are now going to go to a little commercial break and we'll be back with the second. Join us after when I ask Patsy. So if you have any questions on what you've heard. Please send us an email at presentersomensradio.com or tweet us @womensradiostn. Sam. From all the presenters and the team behind Women's Radio Station, thank you for listening. You've been the most amazing audience with your sparkling enthusiasm and support. So from our hearts we would like to wish you a very merry Christmas and a wonderful new year full of joy and surprises. Hi, I'm Lara Heems, Founder and designer of Lara Haems Jewelry. I make luxurious jewelry at affordable prices using silver, semi precious stones and high quality triple a cubic zirconia. Its elegant, stunning, stylish and long lasting. Who needs diamonds? 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Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help visit turntous.org.uk Let me tell you about Jermyn Street Theatre. This is a secret theatre in the heart of the West End. Once found, never forgotten. This is where careers ignite, where playwrights take risks, where great actors perform just feet away from the audience. This is where magic happens. We would love you to join our mailing list or become a sponsor or just buy a ticket to one of our shows. The website is www.germanstreettheatre.co.uk. Women's radio station is a not for profit, community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. Sam. And welcome back to Open and I'm Angie. And I'm Patsy. Now Angie, now that I've discussed how I maintain my back and front or Jack and Danny. Or vagina or whatever neighbor you wish to call it. Tell me a bit. What goes on with you? What goes on with my vagina? Well, I think the first thing is that I realized a long time ago, actually, that lots of everybody's vagina is different. In what sense? Well, they're all different shapes and sizes. I mean, your vagina is as unique to you as your face or, you know, any other part of your body. And I think a lot of women don't have the opportunity really to look at. So do you look at your women's vagina? Yeah, I used to. I used to look at it every day. You know, you'd get a mirror. Why every day, dar get a mirror and just to have a, you know, just to have a poke around and see what it was like. Did you stimulate yourself or anything like that? Oh, God, yeah. Everybody. Everybody stimulates themselves. But the thing is, I think, whereas men, because they. The way they pee, you might kind of have a quick glance at a guy who's peeing next to you to have a look at his. You know, it's not something I do all the time, Patsy, but, you know. But, you know, men have the opportunity. Well, they can see their organs. They can see their organs, and they can. When they go to the loo, they might, you know, have a glance at somebody else. But women don't have the opportunity very often to look at somebody else's vagina. I mean, I've had, as, you know, sexual encounters with women, so I've seen. So you really do know about variations vaginas at close quarters. Yeah. So my first thing, my first message to women would be, you know, have a look. Have a look at your own. But do you wash yours? I haven't. Now, here's a secret. This is something I'm. I'm. You probably don't know, but our listeners, I'm saying definitely don't know. I have not washed my vagina for years. And why is that, Patsy? Because it doesn't need to be washed. Why? If your vagina is healthy and you don't have an infection, basically, when I'm in the shower or taking a bath or whatever, I will wash my bottom and make sure that, you know, that's clean. But I never actually wash my front. So for you, you actually do not wash or put any water inside the orifice at all? Well, unless, you know, the shower will run between your l legs. Or if you're sitting in the bath, obviously you're sitting in. Have you ever had a case of bacterial vaginosis? Yes, I have, Yeah, I have. And obviously in that case you have to take ointment or pessaries or you can take a tablet to get rid of it, but I. All these douches that the chemists sell and all that kind of thing is completely unnecessary. It's a self cleaning organism, self cleaning organ. It does and it really works. So I would say, the first thing that I would advise is stop washing your vagina. Well, I want to interject there and say if you have any discharge, which normal healthy vaginas do have, it should be clean, clear and not oval. And odourless. And odourless. So if you do have an odour and a discharge that is discoloured, I suggest you go to your GP or your healthcare provider to get that looked into. Is there anything else a woman's got to do with her vagina? Well, now we get to talking about the dreaded smear test. Oh, here we go. Yeah, here we go. This is the other thing that we're gonna talk about for Christmas. I had my letter that comes through. And why did you get sent a letter? Well, every three years from the age of 21, anybody who's sexually active will be invited to go for a smear test. But why is it important, Patsy? It's important because it detects any abnormal cell growth on the neck of the cervix. And in order to make sure that that doesn't develop into anything more sinister or serious. If those cells are detected by doing the smear test, they can be treated and you have absolutely nothing to worry about. But it's important to have the smear test just to see if it's. Yeah, I know a lot of women actually put it off because they're actually really scared of revealing themselves. They are? Yes, it's the hpv, the HPV virus, which can develop into something more serious. But if it's detected at an early stage, which the smear test will do, then sadly, some women only realize they've got that issue going on once they start becoming symptomatic. And then it's too late because there are no symptoms. There's usually no pain until you are at the stage where it's so serious that women are dying because they're not having smear tests. Well, that's a very positive message. So we need to have smear tests. We need to encourage every girl and woman to go for a smear test. So what actually is involved? Tell us. Well, I had my smear test A couple of weeks ago. And you will make an appointment with your medical practitioner. Once you've got your letter and you go in and you take your clothes off, you take your knickers and your trousers and your skirt. Were you a bit nervous? I was nervous, but only because, you know, it's a process that you have to go through. And you're getting naked, but we all get naked, we're all the same underneath. Did it help that you actually knew the medical provider? Yes, I did. I know my doctor very well. So then it. So you take your knickers and your trousers off, you lay down on the bed, you put your feet together so that the soles of your feet are together. Like riding a horse. But you can't ride a horse with the soles of your feet together. Have you ever ridden a horse like that? I have. Anyway, so the soles of your feet are together and inevitably your knees then flop apart. And my cervix, it so happens, points. Points downwards. So I always find it useful to put my hands underneath my buttocks to lift myself up a little. Then the medical practitioner takes a speculum, which is a plastic device that's inserted into the vagina so that basically your doctor or nurse can see what's going on. Is that painful at all? Well, it's covered in KY jelly. They absolutely smother it in KY so that it. It's. It's warm, it's lubricated, so there's none of that cold shock thing going on. None of that anymore. It slides in and you just relax, do some breathing exercises, lie back and think about something that makes you happy. Think about something that relaxes you. It slides in, a swab is inserted. What does that feel like, though? A swab is like a. It's like an extended sort of cotton bud and it's like somebody scratching your nose a little bit sharply. And they take seven little scrapings from the neck of the cervix and then it's done. The speculum is withdrawn, the specimen sample goes away, you wipe yourself, get yourself dressed and it's done. And how long do you have to wait? Takes less than five minutes. And then the results you'll get back within three weeks and you may be called back. But what I want to stress is that that is nothing to worry about. So it's not an indication there's anything similar? Absolutely not. It could just be that your specime bottle hasn't been labeled correctly. It could just be that the cells that were taken weren't enough. So if you get a letter saying that you need to go back, go back, have it redone, it's generally nothing to worry about. So I'd advise all our listeners for Christmas, if you get your letter over Christmas, first thing come January, go in and book yourself a smear test. Is this your first one? No. I've had lots and lots over the years as a sexually active woman. You get your letter and you. You go and have it done. And it's something that is so important because the consequences of not having it done are deadly. Literally, literally deadly. So I'd advise every woman to look at your vagina over Christmas, see what's going on down there. And what about pants? Do you have to wear all cotton? Well, I wear whatever I like, really. I think as long as you allow yourself, allow that area to breathe, then there isn't really a problem with what, what sort of pants you wear. But I think my message over Christmas is for women to enjoy your vagina. Look at it, look after it, say hello to it in the morning, see if there's anything going on down there and anything else that you need to take care of. I mean, I remember I was told by several friends of mine that were biological women, they said after you've had organic dilation, you have to go to the. For a pee. Yes. Is that important? Yes, it is. I always do that because it washes out any unhealthy bacteria that has been pushed up into the vagina during sex or organic dilation. So, yeah, if you can. It's not always possible, but if you can go for a pee after you've had sex, then that's a great thing to do. It keeps the vagina healthy. What about Tampaxes? Is it true that they cause toxic shock syndrome? They can do if they're left in too long. I would always advise changing your tampon three or four times, at least throughout the day. But again, it depends on how heavy the flow is. It depends on what sort of Tampax you're using. But yes, another way of keeping your vagina healthy is just to keep an eye on what's going on. I'm sure most women do it without even thinking, but I think. And no polyester knickers? Well, I don't know. Sometimes you wear polyester knickers. I've never worn polyester. What do you. What sort knickers do you wear? Silk and lace. Silk and lace. Well, maybe you'll get some over Christmas. I don't know. Well, if you, if you're kind to me, you can buy me a pair. I might. I might weld it. You've always wanted to have a little inspection of my little. My little noo noo. Well, we've seen each other's vaginas. We've seen each other's vaginas. I know we have. But then that. We have that. We have that open relationship. So for us, nothing's actually taboo. No. Now, Patsy, thank you for sharing that with me. I mean, I get sent a letter for my cervical smear and I do go because I also am an active sexual woman. So I am obviously putting myself at risk from getting the HPV virus, which is genital warts or hurt. And that's it. So what else? I think our message just is love your vagina over Christmas. And if you have any questions at all on anything that you've heard on today's show, please, as always, send us an email@presentersimmynsradiostation.com we're always excited to hear any feedback of what you'd like us to talk about next. Or you can tweet us at The Women's Radio. 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