Your Mind Matters – Beverley Mayston & Rick Mayston, Transformational Power Of 2 People Connecting

Love and work, work and love. That's all there is, said Sigmund Freud. In fact, he said, love and work are the cornerstones of our humanness. Carl Gustav Jung said, the meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemicals, substances. If there's any reaction, both are transformed. My name is Dr. Maria Kampinska and this is yous Mind Matters. I'm very interested in both psychotherapy and business. Calendar airing so successful is coming up tomorrow. Hello, Alexa. The shows went live today with my guests is coming up tomorrow. Alexa, stop. Alexa, stop. She's coming back tomorrow. So sorry. Okay, she's telling us how what we've got to do tomorrow. Oh, that's so funny. It's like your personal coming up tomorrow. Yeah, we. Okay, it has stopped now, sorry. So let's just repeat that. So My name is Dr. Maria Kampinska and this is. Your Mind matters and so does Alexa's mind, clearly. I'm very interested in both psychotherapy and business. And today I am here with my guests Beverly Mason and Rick Maiston and I'm discussing the transformational power of two people connecting. More and more couples over this period of time are involved in each other's work and more are actually working together as business partners. I will talk today about how an unexpected meeting has led to Beverly and Rick falling in love, getting married, overcoming difficulties and working together. Firstly, I'd like to welcome you, Beverly, and can you please tell everyone about yourself? Hello. Hi, good afternoon. My name is Beverly and I am working with Rick in Agent Fox Media. My background, I started off knowing from a very early age, but I describe it, I wasn't a girly girl so I wasn't actually going to go into the world of typings. I can't type or anything like that. But I knew that I wanted to work in computers in some way, shape or form. But in those days it was a sort of male dominated world and so I couldn't get straight into what I wanted to do. So I found a way of working part time in the evenings and to understand how computers work. And I used to ask a lot of questions and the boss at the time, I've been very fortunate to find bosses that are forward, I call forward thinking. They don't really mind whether you're male or female as long as you can do the job. And they're my perfect boss. And I was working on a particular project when I kept asking too many questions. Remember asking, how do you do that? Why do you do that? Why do you do that? First and the boss went, look, can you stop talking for a second? I don't think you're really cut out for doing computer work. Which inside I was really crushed. He continued to say, but you asked a lot of questions, so I think you would be a good analyst and a manager. And they pushed me into a role where I had to ask lots of questions and ask people why they're doing what they're doing and then moving forward from there. So from what I wanted to do to what I ended up doing was because I couldn't stop talking and he was, he wanted someone like me to push forward and make things happen. Amazing. Yeah. So no, that was very. It was great. In my life, I've managed to work in the City, so I've worked for banks like Deutsche bank and ING in London, Wall, part of the big eight. And while I was actually working, I need a few more qualifications because now I'm moving up the ladder. A lot of people I'm working with have degrees and firsts and double firsts and they're, you know, they're just, they just have the brain the size of a planet. I'm in awe what they could do. So I thought, well, I'll study, so I'll go Open University so I can work and study at the same time. And while I was traveling from place to place for work, they used to go away on Sunday night and come back on Friday evening wherever they send me. When I was on the trains and planes, I started to do the study of ou and that's how I got my degree. I spent my time in the air studying and taking exams and I ended up with my business studies degree, I could say with my air miles as well. That's how I got my degree. That's a brilliant story. That's great. And then the last but not least, as I started to mature. That's a polite way of putting it, I thought I'd like to be what we call a non executive director. You can go into businesses and all that knowledge I've gained over the 30 years of working, especially in the City, I could use it as a non executive director. So I studied with the Financial Times and I have my NED degree with them. So I'll just be looking for little non executive director positions while working with Ric and that's where I am today. Amazing. I'd like to sort of dig into that a little bit more shortly, Beverly, because it's fascinating what you've done and how you did it as well, and your determination and your vision and where that came from. But let me just ask you, Rick, to introduce yourself and a little bit of your background. Well, I'm Rick Maiston and as you can hear from all the noises going off in the background, we work from home. But I started back in 1976 as a graphic designer and working as a studio junior in a company called Roids, which was an advertising agency, and then moving my way through to becoming a senior graphic designer and eventually going. Going freelance in the late late 80s I think it was. But the graphic design changed a lot and everybody started using computers while I was still using magic markers and rotoring pens. So, so all the youngsters were coming through and they were much more computer literate in terms of creativity. So I reinvented myself at the age of 37 and joined a company called Allsport as a researcher. My love of sport allowed me to really get paid for my hobby, really. But from there I worked my way up to working with the book publishers and being in charge of the book publishing side and all. Sport got bought up a couple of years later by Getty Images and then I became the European Director for Book publishing of Getty Images, working in the UK office in London, in Camden, but also flying out to our other offices in Barcelona and various other places. I also spent a little bit of time working in Denmark and learning the language and living in Copenhagen for little while. So, so I did quite a bit of traveling. But in 2014, 2013, I. I kind of started for the last two years from 2011, trying to add to what I was already doing and being more proactive. So I was taking on third party authors and even third party photographers for Getty Images and being proactive with pushing book titles and getting my team to be a little bit more proactive with the subject matters. So I kind of became a literary agent, probably without knowing what a literary agent was. And then it was explained to me by someone I really respect in the business that, that I. Between in 2011 and 2013, I'd actually become the most prolific non fiction literary agent in the country, which really surprised me. I don't know what happened in 2012, by the way. You didn't say that. But then I left to become a literary agent and form agent Fox Media. But what happened was that we really became multiple media brokers. And instead of being the traditional type of literary agent, which I expected to be, it kind of, it just grew organically and evolved organically into what we are now, which is something called an initiative called beyond the Book. So now we take those book projects, mostly nonfiction, and turn them into live Q&As, gallery exhibitions, apps, gaming, TV dramas and documentaries, live stage shows. And it seriously just turned into that organically. It's not what we set out to do, but nevertheless, that's what became of us. Then the pandemic hit and we needed to reinvent ourselves again. Managed to start working with a publisher in Idaho and have ended up now because of the Pandemic, co publishing our own books, which is great fun and another string to our bow. And then with that, we formed our own YouTube channel to promote our project. So we've certainly stayed busy within the Pandemic and with the different skill sets that both myself and Beverly have. And you can hear she's the brains of the outfit, it's working even better than before that she came along. That's fantastic. It's great to get an overview of both of you, but before we talk about how you met and the work that you do, specifically, I'm intrigued by both your backgrounds. So, Beverly, can I dig in a little bit to your background? How was it that you, at such a young age, had a vision of who you were going to become? And the fact that, you know, you're saying I was doing all these air miles, I decided to get an Open University. I was asking questions. I needed to get the answers. You somehow attracted the right bosses that responded to you. Where did you get that from? What was your family background like? I think more of the same. With my family, it's really my mum and my grandparents, my maternal grandparents. They've always been, Well, you see their exact same. It was. No one comes to knocking on your door to give you things. If you want something, you have to go out and get it. And from a very young age, it's. It's the most natural thing in the world to ask questions. I don't mind asking what I say to people, but I'm going to ask a noddy question. It may, you may think it's the most simple answer in the world, but I still need to ask the question so that I can get it into my head. Yeah, so it's more like that my. My grandfather, he was in the army and fought in the war of that generation where they, you know, they don't talk about it. They've seen things that we could never imagine and it just makes them think that it could have been so different. So with my grandfather, he just. Every day was a precious day. You just keep moving forward and saying, if you do want something you work for it. So he studied. He didn't have to study after he left the army and he went into the post office here in the uk. But he always liked studying. He always liked finding out how things worked and why things were the way they were. So I think it's just something that as a family, it's the most natural thing in the world. It's not something I have to think about. It just is. And are your parents still alive? Grandparents. Are they still with us? No, no. My. My. My lovely grandmother passed away 18 years ago. I know the exact date because she passed away on the day that my nephew was born. So. So every time we get to the 8th of November, that's when my grandmother passed away. Grandfather passed away six years before that. I can remember getting the phone call. I was on a train on the way back from Portsmouth. I remember it. I get a phone call to say, he's passed away. And the strangest thing is to get a message like that when you're sitting on a train amongst lots of people, because it's. You're in your own little bubble anyway, with lots of people around you. But it's just how quick your mind goes back to all the lovely things that you used to do. It is strange. But, no, they're not here. But my. Both my parents are still here. Oh, wonderful. And do you have brothers and sisters, Beverley? Oh, yes, I am. I am two of six, so I'm second eldest and I have three brothers and two sisters, so that's evenly balanced. And our naming convention, we have two A's, two B's and two C's. You clearly have a sense of humor in your family. Yes. Which is brilliant. And there's so much more that comes out of our families than. And as we grow and evolve, we realize where it comes from because it never leaves us. And that's absolutely brilliant. It must have been a difficult time on the train, that moment to contain yourself. Yes. But strangers, in a way, it's a happy feeling because they're not in any pain anymore. And, you know, he suddenly passed in his sleep, but you just don't get to say goodbye. I think that's. That's a lot of people say that, but you just wanted to say that last goodbye. But I can only think of positive things. He was so supportive. He's the kind of grandfather that my mum said, oh, don't give them any sweets or don't give them this. And then he'd always sneak up and put a little sweet. And you put you Know see Claire's. Oh yeah, with the chocolate in the middle. You give everybody ten pin, you tell all of us, no, don't tell your mum. Oh, how sweet. He sounds fantastic. So Rick, tell us about your upbringing. Well, I'm an only child and that probably came from the fact that my mum is. Well, my mum was around five foot six and I was ten and a half pound, so I don't think there was going to be another one. And no, I had a very, I had a very happy childhood. My mum did various various jobs. She'd worked in shops and in factories and ended up owning her own petrol station or having a franchise to her own petrol station. My dad was in menswear for most of his life, but he was incredibly good creatively working with his hands. So he ended up doing window display in places like Carnaby street during its heyday and making a lot of the props that went in the windows with the clothing. So both of my parents were incredibly creative and I think that's probably why I entered into that side of things rather than doing anything more academic. I was never a brain box at school, but I wasn't stupid either. So I think that, I think early on I probably would have been in the top classes and then sort of shifted down somewhat as I discovered that there was life outside of school and maybe my mind wandered a little bit too much. And I know you both have a love of football, but before we go into that or it leads very nicely into how you met. So Beverly, why don't you tell us how you met? Okay. I can say it from how it looks from my point of view. Yeah, then Rick can say how it looked from his point of view. We were going to, I was going to an away day with, with Tottenham because we support Tottenham and they do coaches to some of the away games. So I arrived at Lee Valley and parked up, parked my car and got onto my coach and I was just sitting by the window because I loved the away days. You're not driving anywhere and you can just daydream out the window, which I quite like. And I was just sitting, looking out the window thinking, oh no, this is about 5 hours away. Watch the game, have a good time, meet up with the friends up there and then come back. And that's just a whole day of 10, 11 hours just to watch 42, 45 minute halves of football. And when I was looking out the window, somebody got onto the coach and said, oh, can I take the seat next to you? Which just happened to be Rick So he sat down and I said hello. He said hello. And then I carried on looking out the window. But Rick, Rick is a talker. He likes talking about all sorts of things. And so we started discussing that the weather was nice and it was so early in the morning. Yes. And then in my mind I was thinking, and I'll be honest with you, and I've said, said this to Rick, I was thinking it's five hours, so I have to actually end the conversation now and it'll be awkward. Five hours there and five hours back, or let's have a chit chat in the middle. Well, as we started to chit chat and he's quite, quite a great guy. Some of the things he was saying, he's done this and he's done that. I'm quite quiet. You may not think so, but I'm a quiet person. I listen more than I talk most of the time. And he was chatting away. And I had to admit, I did think, really, really, it's five hours and I'm closest to the window and there's no escape route. So I thought you just have to go with it. And that's how we met. My version. Your version. I'd seen Beverly on the coach before and hadn't had noticed her, but there was never a seat next to her. But on this particular occasion, the seat next to her was free. There was probably about four or five other seats that were free as well. So I kind of deliberately took that one and started chatting to her. And she did appear quite nervous, to be honest, at first. But she kind of relaxed into it and we got chatty and yes, we were, we were talking about our lives. And of course, because my life is, well, as yours is, working with quite a few celebrities, it just sounded like I was name dropping. And I'm sure that Beverly just thought that I was, you know, just trying to impress her. But when we did eventually get to know each other properly, she realized that these things were in fact true. So I think that probably quite surprised her from that first trip up to Liverpool and back. But, but she. I did ask her to meet me at one of our events. I think it was on the, on, on the Thursday after the, the Saturday that we, that we first met and first started talking. And it was around Easter time and to my surprise she did actually turn up. So. So there must have been, there must have been something there. There must have been more than football. I think there was, yeah. Which we'll come to. So, Beverly, okay, what made you turn up to that event, was it to actually see if it was true, everything that he'd said, Some of it. But it was the. The fact that the event was a metro jam where the musicians are session musicians. You've probably seen or heard them, but they're in the background to the famous front people. So these people could live music. I thought, what could possibly go wrong? I'll have a nice evening listening to some really talented musicians playing. Didn't think anything more of it. And then they're really good. It was a good evening. And I saw Rick in full flow doing his agent thing. So he actually proved himself at that moment. Yes, he did. And he's like two different people in a good way. Because when he's doing the work bit, there's Rick the agent and then there's Rick the person. I know, even though they are the same person, I just know when he switches from one to the other. Unconsciously, of course. So coming back, you're now working together, but when you were drawn to each other and you both. You're now business partners, as you've said. So what roles do you take now? Well, I've always been the one who negotiates the deals, puts the deals together, and that hasn't really changed. But probably what I was missing was somebody who could crunch the numbers and actually be. Beverly is very much a program director, a project manager. So when it's actually come to the logistics of an event or putting things together, that's where Beverly really shines. And so what we do really complements each other. And so I've got a creative background, I still have a creative mind. Even in terms of what I do now, that hasn't really changed. So for Beverly, then to be able to put that together and make sure it's workable has enhanced the business to the nth degree. It's really worked. So as much as we obviously 90% of our lives is we're a married couple that love each other dearly. But that other 10% where we're working together is really special as well, because it's really brought the business forward. Yeah, I do believe in the. As I said in the quote with Jung, it's sort of about two people who come together, can create amazing things, and it's much more than just two normal people, you know, when you really connect. And that's what I'm picking up here. But Beverly, so you add the process, the dynamic, the, you know, you earth the business, do you? Yes. When I first started working with Rick, because it's not my Background, the entertainment business, the book business, that's not where I came from. Mine was we had to deliver something. You have to deliver it by a certain time and date. That date is nailed on. So you have to work everything else around it to make sure that the client, the customer, whatever you want to call the end user comes in. They. It's just all there for them. They don't see all the glue bits that put everything together. They don't see what's going on under the underneath. They just enjoy the evening. So when I came on board, I can't do the. I still can't do the negotiating part of it. I leave that up to Rick. But once everybody's agreed, this is where we're going. And that's the date. That's when I. I say I'm more comfortable. I come into my own there. Yeah. So I can actually then visualize what the event should look like. And then I put everything. He does the bones and I put all the flesh on. Was the first time I think that this business had ever come across spreadsheets. All right, but is that. How was that a natural process? How did you decide that that was going to happen? Did you just sort of offer to do it? Beverly? I think one of the first projects that Rick was working on was Am I allowed to say the. We had a Helen Ledger show off sky to wine. And Helen is a wine expert. And we'd organized something in a club that's now closed called the Library in. And what it is, you invite 30 to 40 guests. And Helen does a show where she look at two reds, two whites and three fizz. And the idea would be to entertain people about wine and the taste of wine and how you can tell a tannin from an acidic. And she puts a comedy element into it as well. So it's a really lovely evening. So Rick and Helen had organized. They were going to do this. What needed to be done after that was the ticket sales. And if you've got 40 people and awful lot of wine, how are you going to control how everyone's going to get their wine at the right time? So Helen can do her bit, you know, so she looks majestic, literally majestic and telling people to do but in the background. How will everybody get their wine? How will they get it on time? How it's not going to be spilled all over the place? What type of glasses are they going to have? You can't have people walking up and down. So Rick and Helen left that bit to me. I organized it to bring in My family, my two sisters and my niece were the hostesses. And I got pictures, put together T shirts so you can tell the hostesses from the people taking part. They had all Helen's face with lots of bottles of wine all around Helen on them. They sat at the table. We organized the table with pieces of paper that had the seven different glasses on so they knew exactly which glass they needed. Put the video together, we put the music in the background, we put the pizza on at the end. All of those kind of things that if I was going to an event, how would I enjoy it? Ran smoothly and I didn't see how it was all working. And that's. That was where I came into it. Not Helen or Rick, they've done the main bit but the actual evening itself so that everybody enjoyed every minute of it. And they got very tiddly, I must admit. And did it surprise you, Beverly, that that part of yourself came to the fore at this moment? Did it? Were there components of yourself that you thought, oh, I've done that, you know, I didn't expect to be able to do that. But you found that you were able to adapt to quite a different world. To be fair, that for me is the most natural thing in the world. The banking part of it. We negotiated quite large contracts. For example, I worked for Deutsche. Deutsche was in the middle of London, which is London Wall they have, and it's not a secret, so I can say this now. They had data centers within the city, but of all of the different bombings and everything else, they had to go outside what they call the Ring of Steel. And to do that we needed to bring together teams of people that had unique skills within the bank, which were all senior managers as well as third party suppliers. My role was literally when I went there, I had a post it that said just do it, because they've been trying to do it for the last seven years and it was costing millions not to do it. I just asked the question, well, if I do this, you know, that some people may get upset. So what we might need to do is I need you as really senior management to support me if people start getting upset and I'll explain so that you don't get surprised when, you know, really senior managers come and say, she's telling me to do this and I don't want to do it, I need their backup. So they gave me that. Then the idea was we needed to do something by a certain date, which again, I'm very date driven, date orientated and just to get it done so we actually went out and bought buildings, suitable buildings. And being a German bank, we couldn't buy anything in Canary Wharf because there's nothing worse than buying something. To find out that there's an unexploded World War II bomb underneath the Deutsche bank building, that's just not good. So we had to actually consider things like that, all of it, putting things together. Nothing is impossible. In my head, it's not impossible, it's just finding a way. So doing the thing with Helen and Rick, it's just. That's my bread and butter. I'm completely comfortable in that world. Just finding a way. Yes, there's always a way. So. And for you, Rick, it must have been given you comfort, because I know Helen and obviously I know yourselves, but, you know, for you to have these dynamic ideas and then to know that they're going to be put into action in a way that is superb, you know, that it's faultless, must have given you a great deal of comfort. Well, that was fantastic for me. And I'm. I need to say that I'm really proud of Beverly because that was the first one that she. She did, and. And it was absolutely flawless. But what it did was it left me time to do my part. So I needed to make sure that the deal was right for everybody in terms of everyone getting paid. I had the book publishers come and the TV production company come. So we're now in negotiations for a TV series and there is a tie in book with it, and that's because they were invited on the night, they saw it work. And now we're moving forward, making that whole project bigger. And that really is because Beverly did such a great job on the night, and it then allowed me to negotiate deals for a book for a TV series. And we're also looking at doing more live events as well. So that's just one of the projects. But it shows how Beverly being left to do what she did actually allows me to concentrate on the side of it that is more creative and adding multimedia platforms to everything and really taking forward the beyond the Book initiative that, that I'd started when I left Getty. And at what point then, when you were working together, at what point did it all happen, sort of just did it flow? At what point did you decide, this is it, this is we are going to stay together and then eventually get married? How did that come about? And how did the working element come about? Did the. Did the one just flow in because it was a natural gap in your life that Beverly just slipped into. And Beverly being the person that is, oh yes, I can do that. You naturally came in and said, yes, I can fulfill that because that's who I am. Yeah, well, obviously when, when we met, you know, when we, we started to fall for each other and you know, it's, it was, it was more of a. Sounds quite sloppy, but it was more of a love story than anything to do with work. It's just that because my job isn't a 9 to 5 job and you know, takes up quite a bit of my time and certainly prior to the pandemic, a lot of, A lot of the socializing is connected to the business. And you know that, Maria, because some of those events I've, I've. I've seen you there and been with you there, so you, it does all merge into, into one. So when Bev started coming with me to these events and you know, that was part of the, of the socializing and Beverly's job that she'd had was, was coming to an end, it seemed a natural progression really to see if, if we could also work together. And Bev seemed to enjoy the events and enjoy. It was very different for her, you know, having having been in, in banking, having been in finance, having been with the British Transport Police, you know, it was an incredibly different world to come into the media, but, but she put her own stamp on that. And again, like everything else with this business, it kind of evolved organically. So we didn't set out for it to be that way, but it's worked before. I come to the wonderful, wonderful element of love. My observation as a psychotherapist, but also I trained as a Myers Briggs. You've done your Myers Briggs, have you? I should think so. My guess is. So I'm just going to take this off the top of my head. I've met you briefly before, Beverly, but now that you've been speaking, my guess is you're an ENTJ then. Yeah. You're an intj. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's what I, you have to be one of those. And my guess is that Rick is much more intuitive. You know what's so wonderful when you come to do psychological types, because it was based on CG Yong's work. He created a psychological club, actually, but his work was then morphed into Myers Briggs, which I think they really have been useful but not totally served the process well. Also what I'm picking up from you both is the fact that you sort of slot in together. There's an understanding of who you Are and a respect. And very often if you get the wrong types together, they can be a jarring of the types. And when I'm in therapy with clients, when I explain their psychological type and you get a sensation type that goes into so much detail and doesn't appreciate the intuitive type that gets the overview. Whereas with you, you're a thinking type predominantly. Are you or an intuitive predominantly. Beverly, do you remember? I am. No, I can't remember the. But I know that the thinking and intuitive are very dominant in your world. That's why when I would give examples to people about a thinking type, you actually said exactly what I would give an example of a thinking type. I need you in my bank to back me up when I say this needs to be done because people, certain people won't like it. And that's exactly what the thinking type does. And that is the sort of leading type. And an intj, if I can just say, is very, very rare amongst women. Okay. And I wanted to point that out to you because it is incredibly rare, but it's incredibly important because you not only have the. It's a sort of gateway the Myers brings. You know, Jung said if both of us, he actually was thinking in. Of his time with Freud. You know, both of us, he and Freud were interested in similar things, dreams. They both studied and they both worked in Salpetri, I'm not sure if I pronounced it correctly, but in Paris, which was an asylum at that time. So they both did their depths of work, but they both came out with different points of view and he was quite interested in that. And both of you similarly have similar but different points of views towards something. And that is the wonder of this style of understanding how couples can get on. But if, for example, when there are couples, one who sees a big picture and says, oh, do you like the way I've designed this room? And. And the other person says, well, I don't know about that because that red cushion doesn't fit in. It's going to put you off. But that is often what happens. So clearly your connection goes deeper than just a love connection because even love sometimes cannot overcome the psychological, you know, sort of the type of person you are that can get in the way. And clearly your psychological type obviously matches together and that becomes apparent in the way you work, but also the way you communicate, which is wonderful. So coming back to your work and let's talk about love, as you started enjoying each other's work and enjoying each other's, the love grew and obviously you're not teenagers. A little bit above teenagers. I know that. Just a little. Isn't it wonderful? I do so believe in the power of love and I know everybody talks about it, but, you know, again, as a psychotherapist, lots and lots and lots of people have problems in relationships and, you know, you then fell in love and you decided you were going to get married, which in itself was difficult to get your wedding date because of what happened last year and the COVID experience, but you managed to get there. How did you get through those moments, those difficulties? Can I say something? Yeah, yeah. We were. Rick's mum was very ill, Helen in Hospital in 2019. And, well, she was so ill that we believed that she wasn't going to make it, but we didn't know how long she had. So when we said we were going to get married, we were going to get married in the care home that she was in so that she could be with us when we got married. And we were going to get married in the. November 2019, but unfortunately Helen passed a week before we were actually going to get married on her birthday, which was November 22nd. But sadly she, she didn't make it to her birthday and she, she passed away on the 17th or the 15th. The, the, the, the, the. Exactly a week before. And, and, and the. Unfortunately the funeral, which was two days later on, was Beverly's birthday and the very first birthday, that very first birthday that I'd spent with Beverly, we'd spent together, was actually at my mum's funeral. So, so we had a. We had a difficult start anyway, but, but Beverly, my mum came to love Beverly like a daughter, even though she was in the hospital and obviously was declining. And we had a few moments where we actually thought she was going to pull through, but sadly she didn't. But, you know, it got to the point where I think she was more upset if Beverly didn't go and see her than if I didn't go. So they. Absolutely. I'm really pleased that she got to meet Beverly and mums are very intuitive as well. I think my mum could see that this, that I'd finally met my soulmate. I think had an intuition that Beverly was the one and that it had taken me a long time to find that person, but I think it's fair to say that she left this world with knowing that I was with the person that I should be with. Yeah, that's wonderful. And when you did get married, which was last year? Yes, we had a date of April 12, 2020. So we were working towards that date. And the pandemic came along and even though we had the wedding dresses, the suits, the venue, the invites had gone out, we didn't know whether we were actually going to get married, but no one would be able to tell us until Boris said the word. The UK's on lockdown. No one knew what was going on. It turned out that on 12 April 2020 was the peak, the very first peak of the very first lockdown. So of course the wedding didn't go ahead then. So then we had to wait until we knew when lockdown was going to go from four plus or four, whatever it was at the time to three and two. And that happened in, I think about the first of July. The registrar called and said that they had a free slot on the 19th of July if we wanted to take it. And did we want to think about it. And we said instantly, yes, that's fine, because it's all about the getting married rather than the cake and everything else that goes with it. On the 19th of July we got married. Yeah, it was at the same venue and it was a beautiful venue out in Hertfordshire. But we did arrive with masks on and holding shopping bags in front of instead of 130 guests to a sit down meal, it was 14 guests. And then we took everybody for a picnic nearby afterwards. And I have to say it was a wonderful day. And even though we didn't have the wedding we planned, I think we ended up having the wedding we wanted. Yeah, it sounds just remarkable. And obviously, you know, let's talk about love because I think as I, as I was saying that in very often in psychotherapy, when people come in, they've often got problems in relationships to find that one person in their lives and how you found each other was quite interesting that you were both connected through football as well. So let's briefly talk about football and love in that sense. So can I. Let's just talk about love and the words for loves. Do you know The Greeks have three words for love in Sanskrit there's 96 words in the Persians have 80 words, the Inuits, I believe had 36. And yet the English have one. I just quite like that in a way because it makes us be more imaginative with our adverbs and our adjectives. But you know, that's my thinking. I'm not quite so damning about the English and their words for love. But there is a love both of you have for football as well. Did that play a big part? Well, obviously it connected you. Yeah. Yes, I think you know, that sliding doors moment where it could be completely different. Rick, he was telling me that I was on time, I got on the coach on time, and I was nice and relaxed, whereas Rick was late, weren't you? Yeah, I normally would. Would get up quite early, go and park the car because quite often I didn't go on the coach, I would drive up with friends. So it was. So the first coincidence was probably that this was one of the games that I was going to by coach. But for some reason that morning I overslept and I literally had from the time that I woke up three quarters of an hour to get onto the coach. So I got dressed in record quick time, managed to escape all the speed cameras getting there, and made the coach with about two minutes to spare. And had I got there earlier or got there at the time that I normally would, I would have taken a window seat probably before Beverly got on the coach. And so we would have been sitting separately. But because I was late that day and there was a seat spare next to Beverly, that's why we ended up sitting together. But had I not overslept that day, we probably wouldn't be together now, you know, and it's so wonderful because in life, and I do love this part of life, and although we all, by the time we're, you know, sort of our age in a way, you. We've all gone through difficulties one way or another, whether it's through work, life, you know, things always come in as obstacles, and I think that's part of life. But there are those magical moments that do happen, that when they do happen, they end up with a relationship like yours. And I think that shouldn't be underestimated. And I do think that in the scientific terms, they would always try to put that to aside or say, oh, that doesn't exist. But those magical moments, I absolutely believe they exist. And of course, that's what happened to you, as you said, sliding doors, Beverly. But that's continued throughout your work now. But let's move on to. You love football, and one of your books is called Goal the Famous Goals. But do you think that what makes football so enticing and so exciting is the fact that they do want to score goals? And do you think that part of our lives and the world of getting on in life is to create a goal for yourself, to sort of have a future that you can actually look forward to and commit yourselves to, not only in a relationship, but in the work you do as well? What do you think, Rick? I think that probably the word for all of that is passion. And certainly I think for Beverly and myself that football has been, you know, even before we met each other, long before we met each other, football was an escapism. I've always been lucky enough to not just have the passion of football, but I really have a passion for my work. I love, I love doing what I do. I feel very privileged to be able to do a job that I love doing that isn't nine to five and just be able to blend it all in really, with my social life. And then for Beverly, then to fit into that so easily. I think, yes, there probably was a connection there between the passion that we both have for football, the passion that we have for each other, and the passion that Beverly now has for the type of work that we do. So, yeah, I mean, it's all very, very much connected. We have our moments. You know, in case this is just sounding like we are the perfect couple that never argues. That certainly never. That certainly doesn't happen. And, you know, we'll argue over work and we'll argue over life, like all couples do, but generally, you know, we have a passion for all three of those things. And that's why I think it works. Yeah. And also I'm always surprised if a couples don't argue because arguments mean that you're creating boundaries, you're finding out which way to go, you've got a point of view, you are, as you say, passionate, and arguments are part of that world. It's never a problem. But setting goals for yourself does your work. As you were saying, you're now working with Helen Lederer. Who else are you working with? What's your future at work? Well, we're working with, with a number of celebrities, not all of whom that we can mention. But now that we have this, this co publishing partnership, what we've tried to do is to. Is to concentrate on individuals and subject matters that have a large fan base. So that might be a recording artist, it might be a TV show, it might be a sports club or sports personality, someone that we know that has a large fan base. And because of the multimedia aspect of what we do, it enables us to create packages for the fans around the book. So it's really taken that beyond the book initiative that I started really when I was still at Getty Images Back in 2013, it's really taken that to another level. And as you know, as I said, one of the reasons that it's moved on has been the pandemic. But another big reason that we've been able to move it on is that I now have somebody with very different skill sets to me who has made this much more a much more well rounded business than it was before Beverly came along. And do you sit and talk about your future in your business together? Do you have a vision for your future? I think we're beginning to talk about that Sounds silly. We just get on with the day to day life. But in the last, to be fair, it's relevant to football. With that European Super League thing that came out this time. Yeah, fascinating. It was a discussion, everyone was talking about it. But that realization that it was actually sounds really selfish though it was happening to us because of spurs this before the announcement last Monday came out, our football club had asked all the season ticket holders to start paying for their season tickets. So Rick and myself, we've got different type of tickets and as a premium ticket holder we have to pay all of it up front because we've got a contract. Whereas the regular season ticket holders, they can pay a deposit and then pay the rest. Have those emails come out to say that we need to pay it now? That's fine, it's all paid. They've got all of our money in their bank and plus they've got the money from last year in the bank because we didn't actually go to any games. And then to see that super league thing come out, you feel cheated, absolutely cheated that you've been conned into doing something. And that's how I felt. And I was sort of, you know, after the two days of the ups and downs and then it was going to happen and then everybody bailed out again. I was talking to Rick and I was saying for myself personally, where do we see ourselves in five years time? Not just are we still going to be going to watch our team play and should we be watching it on tv? But what's our plan? Do we still want to be doing this when we're sort of 70, 80 or do we want to be pottering around in the garden doing flowers, that kind of thing. One of those kind of questions that we haven't discussed before, but it came out of someone suddenly pulling the rug from under you. Yeah, because that was very, very an interesting moment for football. Even I got engaged in the conversation and I just find that, you know, sort of football, that passion of football, that belonging, the whole thing about love is belonging, isn't it? Being attached to somebody knowing you're going to mute move to the future. And I think betrayal, we won't go into betrayal because I don't want to touch that too much. And we're coming to the end of the program. But, you know, betrayal is such a painful part of a relationship. And I think any person who is a fan of football, and I'm glad we're talking about this at this time, because a lot of fans felt betrayed. And whether you're in a fan club or whether you're in any relationship to be portrayed is painful. But let's move on to, as we're finishing, both of you, could you just give us a quick line about the ability to find somebody and to make new lives for yourself? How do you keep that passion going? Not now, but how did you keep that belief going? For me, we went to Madrid when again Tottenham were playing in the Champions League. And we went by coach because all the flights suddenly went up from £400 to nearly 2,3,000 because we were playing Liverpool. And we actually got on the coach. And from the moment we got on the coach to five days later when we got back, it was like catastrophe every step of the way. And because we got through that, we realized we had the same sense of humor. Absolutely same sense of humor. I think that's what really bonded us together. Oh, that's wonderful. And I love humor. As you know, I'm a big fan of humor. I would love to continue the conversation with both of you, Beverly and Rick Maidston, and you have an amazing future together. I can't wait to talk more and I'm sure our listeners would love to hear more of your story at some point. I'd just like to say thank you so much for having this conversation, this discussion about love, life, passion, football and working together. And this is Dr. Maria Kompinska, and your mind matters. Until the next time.