Your Mind Matters – Geoff Boyz, Comedy, Alcohol & Success

Welcome, I'm Dr. Maria Kempinska. I'm a psychodynamic psychotherapist and so a doctor of the mind. I've worked very hard to get to that status and did a PhD actually in the mind of a comedian. So, um, why shouldn't I? Because somebody had to do it, and I did it in Essex University, and I think that's the most appropriate place to do it in, really. Um, today I have immense pleasure to introduce my guest, who's also one of my favorite comedians and a friend, And he's recently— one of his YouTube clips has reached 1 million viewers. So, um, please welcome Geoff Boyes. Uh, and hello, thank you so much, Geoff, for coming on to the program today. It's great to see you. Absolute pleasure. Lovely to see you too. Yeah. Um, so, Geoff, where are you performing at the moment? Well, at the moment, uh, I've just come off an 8-week run of cruise ship shows down in Australia and New Zealand and around that, that way. So I've come off the back of that and I'm just having a little break, um, having worked really hard on those. So I'm having a bit of a rest, doing the odd gig here and there. But, um, yeah, we're just, uh, just putting together what we're doing next with the, with the ships. So, uh, summertime, uh, we'll be back out in the Med again probably and, uh, and do a couple of Atlantic crossings hopefully, and, uh, and then, and then back down to Australia again because They seem to like me there. Everybody likes you, Jeff. I've seen you perform so many times. I don't think, you know, there are some people that, you know, have that, you know, so, oh, I'm not quite sure, and that's their persona on stage. But you're definitely one of those that everybody likes. There's no question about that. But, oh, thank you. It's not a case of that sometimes. It's writing your material. Each comedian has to write their own material. You have to be on top of it. And each setting, you need to do different material for different types of stages, don't you? You do. You know, the circuit that we, we were on together when you were with Jongleurs, and I was working for Jongleurs as well as other clubs, very different to what I'm doing now. The audiences were very, very different. They were sort of young, dynamic, young professionals coming to see what was the coolest thing in town, which was live comedy in those days, you know. I mean, it was just so popular. So writing for that, and especially being young as well in those days, was, was very different from what I'm doing now. I mean, I'm now in my 50s, I'm now performing to audiences on a ship who perhaps have never even been to a comedy club, uh, they've probably never seen live comedy. So, um, you've got to come at it a different angle, different way. It's got to be completely clean. So that knocks out a lot of the stuff we used to do. We used to get away with back in those days. But yeah, it's a completely different, different style of show. It has to be approached in a different way. You've got to put your grown-up head on a little bit and be able to connect with them and make them laugh. Yeah. And that's just what you do. Because that's because there is no— you know, the thing that I love about comedy and as you know, I've watched so much And of course, you know, 'cause you have to perform, as you know, I did my 10-minute standup. That's how I sort of decided that, you know, sort of to include that when I was writing my PhD, 'cause I know how hard it is. But there is something dynamic that only you can do within yourself. But also unlike music or acting, and I know all those areas, as a lot of people are aware of, what they're not aware of is a comedian is up there raw, on their own. They have to face the audience. It's their material in their way. So I did a sort of test, uh, just to see what this would be like. So I took some comedians, various comedians, and I wrote down their material to see what would it be like if somebody else did it. And it's never quite the same because every comedian has their own tone, their own phrasing, their own way that, you know, the pause where you allow people to laugh, do they laugh? Yeah, it's also, it's, it's, um, it's coming from you. It's, you know, if you, if you have, you can always tell when something's scripted for someone else. Excuse me. You can always tell when a comic's doing someone else's stuff, uh, whether it's written for them or whether they've pinched it. You can always tell. And, um, uh, because it's not genuine, it just doesn't feel genuine. They're just you know, you can hear the cogs whirring in there, they're trying to find the next joke. When you're doing it naturally, when you're, you know, I write my stuff down and I look at it on the page and I think, yeah, that will be funny, you know, it doesn't read funny, it doesn't read hilly, you know, I'm not a one-liner, I'm an observational comic, so I'll write a situation down, I'll write a few words down and then I'll go out there and I'll try it and if I connect with them, if they're following me on the journey, then this stuff becomes funnier. I start to improvise. And, um, yeah, it is a case of talking to them and not at them. That's the key. If you're talking at someone, they're just not going to absorb what you're saying. It's going to bounce off, you know, they'll get every third word. But if you're talking to someone and you're actually engaging them and, and selling what you're doing and, and believe in it yourself, then they'll go with it. And then that's when the improvisation starts, that's when you can start going down little roads and avenues that they'll allow you to go, whereas an audience that don't feel that they're connecting with you, they won't let you go down there, they'll just stop you dead with no laughter, and that wall of silence is deafening, you know, it really, really is. There's no sound at all, it's the noisiest thing. And you go into the black hole of time, don't you, where time is timeless, that piece of, you know, even if you're on stage stage for 20 minutes and nobody's laughing, that moment becomes like a full day. Oh, it's, it's, it's real, it's, it's never-ending. Yeah, 20 minutes can go like that if you're having the best gig and it— and, and you're only halfway through your routine and you go, oh, I've done 20 already, you know, and I haven't even got to that bit yet because you're having so much fun, you're playing around, you're improvising, and they're laughing longer. So you have, you have, you know, longer pauses between sentences to let them stop laughing. Whereas if there's nothing, then you're— it's forever. It's forever. 20 minutes, the longest 20 minutes of your life. And, you know, it's happened and it will happen again. It just, you know, sometimes it just doesn't connect. People don't realize that, you know, I remember reading about Billy Connolly, who was sick every time before he went on stage. Yeah, yeah. Incredible, isn't it? Yeah. To think that he would— quite frankly, the funniest man, in my opinion, that's ever walked the planet. Just naturally. Who can make anybody laugh. And that's the key. Anybody laugh anywhere in any situation. You would think that. And he would. He was just naturally gifted in that. And was sick, was ill, was nervous, would shake. I mean, I saw some great comedians through the years at John Grusin and other clubs that were petrified and terrified before they went on, and I won't name names, but some were sick, some were, you know, would shake, and then they'd walk out there and the second they were up there, bum, it was gone, and it was as natural and they were brilliant every time. Me, on the other hand, I would sit there you know, in those days with a pint and reading the paper or whatever, and it's like, you're on. All right, okay. And I go and I just buff and I do it. And I had that, I had that ability. Yeah, you know, to do that. But yeah, you know, some people approach it in a different way. They're just terrified. And Connolly's one, surprisingly. And you know what I found when I did my 10 minutes, and I did it for charity, uh, and Pat Monaghan, I was telling him this the other day, I said to him that you introduced me and said, yeah, Maria owns the clubs, but she says she's doing this 10-minute set for charity, but she's really doing it to buy her second home. Of course. I know, he's lovely. And, uh, fortunately I made sure that the first half was great and the people after me were great, so nobody felt cheated on the night. But what an experience it was because I had to write everything and remember it and get on stage and perform it. And oh my goodness, it was one of the best experiences personally. Not saying it was for the audience, although they did laugh, so it wasn't that bad. And believe it or not, I did get an agent, but I wonder if he was being, you know, sort of just very nice. But the fact is, the art of doing stand-up is quite different, isn't it? And I remember Jerry Seinfeld sort of saying that he was doing so much television, but he's desperate to get into the clubs because there's something else that happens to you when you're in the thick of the club scene in a way, you know, actual performance gives you something else. It's the club scene is, is certainly the place to go to cut your teeth. I mean, as you know, where I'm playing now, you know, on the ships is in big theaters generally. And you have all the love of the theatre, you have the lights, you have the sound, you have all of those things, so I can play with that, I can use that and go, "Oh, let's have a little light change here and let's put some music in there," and you can play with that and that's a different style of show. The clubs, boom, 20 minutes, you're on that stage, there they are, do it. And I've nothing to fall back on, I've, you know, I can't change my show if it's not going well, I can't pull a guitar out and start singing a song and hide behind that. I'm not saying that musical comedy, they hide behind a guitar. They don't at all. But what I'm saying is, you know, I haven't got that. And so, you know, it's, it's raw, it's raw and it's live and it's there and it's happening and you've got to get it right. But the more you do it, the more you learn how to play it. I mean, back in the early days of the '90s, I was playing the Comedy Caff every week, and I was doing 4 nights a week. So, you know, I was, I was up there every night, every night comparing the shows. And I was a young 20-something, you know, kid. And that's where I learned. I learned by doing it. Um, and the better I got at that, then the more other clubs looked at me and said, oh, you know, let's— this, this guy's getting good, so let's have him, you know. And, you know, Jonglo came in and, uh, and and that was it. And, you know, there we went. So yeah, it's a very different to theatre, it's very different to acting, it's just so raw, you're so naked up there, you really are, you're bearing everything. And also, you know, you're doing your stuff, you're doing what's come out into your mind. You're not hiding behind a script. No, you're not. And And you've got to, you've got to learn how to play a stage, how to— mic technique is so important. And I mean, I watch so many comics, young comics, and I see so many mistakes and I'll pull them aside, some of them, you know, and say, look, you know, you want to try and do this with a mic and maybe not take it out and maybe do this with it, you know, and maybe time that a little better, maybe change the wording, rewrite something, rewrite, write a line. 4 different ways. Structure the sentence you're going to say 4 different ways and see which one is easy for you to get out and works. I also say to some young comics as well, imagine Billy Connolly telling your joke. How would he say it? How would Les Dawson have said it? How would Dave Allen have said your joke? And Yeah, the Masters, how would they have said it? So trying to adopt their phrasing, their tone, their wording and all that sort of stuff. And how would Dave Allen have said that? I often do that with my stuff and sometimes you can find something a little bit different. You can, you know, you can find a joke that you didn't see because they would have seen it. So adopting another comic's your mind sometimes helps. Oh yeah, Dave Allen came down to— in the very, very early days in the '80s of Jonglers. It was great to meet him. Yeah. And what a lovely man he was. Yeah. But before you started, go back to your childhood. How did it all begin? Who are your parents? Tell us about your early life. My early life started in, um, Straveness, which is a small town about 50 miles south of Glasgow, a small weaving town in the valley, in a sort of glen, as we call it, I suppose. And it was a small town and I was adopted along with my older brother was adopted, my younger sister was adopted. And then my parents, who were from the northeast of England, who had adopted us, my mum fell pregnant with twins. So there were 5 of us. I know, all under the age of 5 as well. Can you imagine, in the '70s? So I was born in '69, um, so I grew up in, in this little small town, Straven, um, uh, not without its problems growing up, you know, identity, uh, issues. We, we were all told that we were adopted, um, you know, we're all told that our mum couldn't keep us. And just as a question for somebody like you, you know, sort of, I know a lot of people who've adopted children. Good to know. Yes. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Um, it felt special, you know. That's how we were made to feel, that we were special and that there was a reason why, a good reason why, and, um, that, um, you know, your mother couldn't have you and, and so we took you. And, um, you know, and it was a— it was like a fairy story. You know, that, that was, that was what it was like to us, thinking about this other woman somewhere in the world who was your actual mother. But that was mum and dad, you didn't know different. So, so no, it was good to know, um, because you knew, you, you knew. I knew it was different to, to the twins, and I knew I was different to Leslie and my brother Andrew as well. You know, we were, we were physically different, we were, you know, you knew. So, so, you know, we We were happy to— looking back on it, I'm happy to have known about it at an early age. I think it's important to know that you are, and then you can sort of try and piece it all together as you grow up and work it all out in your head, you know. And do you share who you are? Yeah, do you share those thoughts with your brother, sister, and the rest of your family, or do you keep it to yourself? Um, We, we don't talk— we, we talk about it occasionally now, but we've all— because we're all in our 50s now, we, we've all sort of been through that journey of, of seeking out our birth parents. And the three of us have done that. We've all found different things. Um, uh, some— my— I think my brother's still in touch with his— excuse me— is still in touch with his, um brother. I don't think Leslie's in touch with anyone from her family, and I'm still in touch with, um, my— one of my sisters and one of my brothers. I still keep in touch with them. So we've all had different journeys, um, so when we've all met, we've all discussed them, but not in depth, you know. It's very personal and private, and we know what we've done, and we've all sort of respected each other's decisions. And my mum— my dad sadly passed away, uh, good few years ago now, but, um, my mom's still around and she's, she's immensely proud of who we are and what we've done. And, and she was very supportive in, uh, that meeting. And my mother was there when I met my mother, my birth mother. So, um, and she was amazing, really. My, my, um, my mom, she was incredible when it came to that. I don't know how she did it. It must have been very difficult. But we were young, we had to know, we had to find out, we had to try and find out who we were. And how was that meeting for you? How did you cope? Um, it was, um, well, I was, I was only young, I was only 19, I think, 19 when I met, when I met Bonnie. And, um, it was, it was great. I mean, it was great. It was, it was, it was, you know, this magical new family, um, who are um, who are my blood, but, uh, but weren't my family, if that makes any sense. It's, uh, you know, I, I was accepted straight away by all of them, um, and I had a relationship with her, with, with Bonnie, for, for a number of years until it got, you know, it just got a little bit too much. Um, there was a lot of problems there, so, so I had to back out back away from it, which, uh, which was sad. Um, but I still keep in touch with my sister and, uh, and my brother. So yeah, yeah, okay. And you know, sort of, that's a decision to make, isn't it, to back out? But you sometimes need to do that to protect yourself, don't you? Yeah, there were some certain things going on within her life and within mine at that time There was alcohol problems, uh, on both— in both our camps, and there was relationship problems, uh, in hers. And, um, it just all became a little bit too much, and there was too much drama. And, and I was being relied upon, uh, by her to take care of things, and I was beginning to say, no, this isn't— you know, this isn't where I should be, this isn't what I should be doing here. We should be having a sort you know, a fairly good relationship, but I shouldn't be getting involved in, in the ins and outs of your life and trying to fix things for you and trying to sort things out. It just wasn't my job. Um, and, uh, and so that's how it all, it all sort of ended like that. Yeah, because it can be so immensely taxing. It's a— I say this as a psychotherapist, you know, and I encourage people to know they have to know their background, they have to make sense of their lives. If they can. But as parents, your job is to be a parent. Yeah. And I think it's very difficult for children, no matter what age, to take on the burden of parents unless it's a— it's not a burden and it becomes a responsibility of care, which lots of kids want, which is a different thing. But something else was happening for you there, and to step away must have been a big decision to make. It was a big decision, and it was the right one at the time. Um, there has been, uh, certain bits of contact made, you know, but, um, it, it, it was too much. Yeah, it's too much. And I, and I was, I was like, um, I'm being the parent here. Yeah, I was the one that was being the parent, and, um, and I wasn't there looking for her to be my mother. I had a mum, I had a brilliant mum. I've still got a brilliant mum. Yeah, that wasn't the job that, you know, and she was auditioning for the role all the time, you know, and, and that was taxing. And, and then the alcohol was just too much, the alcohol for both of us. I mean, I developed a drink problem as well, which I overcame, but, but she was battling that and it was too much. It was too much to deal with. Yeah, there were other aspects as well. So if you're going through your own problems with alcohol and so on, to have somebody else that's meant to be looking after you demanding so much from you, how did you cope with that? How did you cope with your life and your drink at the same time? I drank more. I mean, that's, that's as simple as that. Is, you know, alcohol, alcohol was readily available, obviously, in the '90s. It was, it was, um, you know, we were working the clubs and it was there, um, and everybody was doing it. Everyone. I know comedians that used to drink 10 pints before they went on stage. I used to think, how did they do that? Where does it go? Guilty. I know. I remember, I remember doing Battersea once, um, and it was a late— The Late Show, and, um, I was smashed and I was drunk. And, um, I was there with Junior Simpson. Yeah, our dear friend Junior. Yeah, he's like— and, um, oh, he's wonderful. And, um, and we were stood there and there was somebody else, I think might have been Mike Gunn, possibly. However, um, they saw me staggering around, and The Late Show had been pretty tough, as you know. They were, they were tough. Yeah. And I, I was staggering around drinking lager and little shots of whiskey or whatever I was on then. And they were just like, this guy's— he's toast. There's no way he's gonna— with this crowd, not a chance. Anyway, I got a standing ovation, you know, which we did get back then. I know, I know. Lots of standing ovations. I must say, well deserved. Yeah, I mean, you didn't get— they didn't just stand for nothing. The Brits don't do that, they did then, and I got one. I was doing the De Niro thing at the end and I had music, I was using music at the time, so it was a bit of a big ending thing with the old impression and yeah, I got them on their feet and I came off that stage and I remember Junior Simpson stood there and he looked at me and said, 'How on earth did you just do that?' and I was like, 'What?' You're smashed. I know, I know. And after the— off to the bar I went, you know. But that was, that was a one-off, you know. Um, alcohol was— it was there, and, uh, everybody was drinking, uh, and it was normal. And, um, and so you, you would— you were silently given the go-ahead. Yeah, everybody went, yeah. 'Yeah, this is good. Yeah, you can do it. Do you want a drink? Here's a pint.' As long as you can do your set, it was fine. As long as you did your job, it was great. And so everybody did it. Not everybody, but you know what I mean. It was a culture. Yeah, we all drank. They don't do that now. I look at the young comics who sit there with the Coca-Colas and the notebooks, you know. Yeah. Okay, so let me ask you something that I've had a conversation with Mike Gunn about this. Because he often, and as you know, talks about drugs and so on. Yeah, as a lot of people have. And maybe it becomes more amplified if you're a comedian because you've got that raw facing the audience. Other people can hide behind systems and computers and so on. And he was sort of saying that he thinks that drugs should be legalized. What's your— right, um, No, uh, I don't know actually. I don't know. I'd have to really think about that. Um, it was there. I mean, the cocaine was there. We were all, we're all on it. I mean, well, not all of us, but a fair amount of us were. Um, that was part of the culture as well. The cocaine thing crept in in the mid-'90s. I think it was probably, you know, the back end of the '90s was, was the cocaine thing. Um, you know, you'd walk in and regularly there'd be lines of cocaine there. And you would go, oh, okay, because everyone's doing it. You got the go-ahead, you got the, yeah, this is cool, this is fine. Um, so you did it. Um, my problem was that I was taking that home. When, when they'd stop on a Saturday night, they'd go home and they'd stop. I'd continue. Yeah, I'd keep going. And Sunday would be to the pub, Monday would be the pub, you know, and, and then it would suddenly be Wednesday and I was gigging again. And I turned up thinking everyone had just done the same thing, that everybody was doing that every day. They weren't. I was. And that was my downfall with alcohol and drugs. Should drugs be legalized? Some of them should, possibly. I can see, I can see Mike's point as to why he thinks Class A should be. There are, there are, there are good reasons why. You know, the government would make a lot of money out of it, wouldn't they? Yeah. From my point of view, I'm always worried about people's mental health on drugs. Yes. You know, because some people just can't take it and they will flip over to the other side. They go over the Rubicon. And the trouble is inside ourselves, we don't know whether it's going to be me or you. I mean, I'm not a drug person in that way, but You know, um, it's, it's one of those things I'm always conscious. Is that person going to be that, you know, will that line of coke, if they take that, or whatever they take, going to be the thing that flips them over to the edge? And I know now the culture is more drugs, you know, recreational drugs are quite common. They are, you know. I, I wouldn't touch them now. I have no interest in alcohol anymore. I've been, I've been sober for 7 years now, and, um, that was a battle. Uh, we can talk about that later, but, um, but now I, I would have no interest in it. And I don't see it, um, because I'm not in that environment anymore, so it— I don't think about it. Um, I know that young comics now aren't really doing all that. They're not doing what we did, I don't think. Um, I don't know, it's, uh, yeah, would, would— did I— did we see some, some, um, some tragedies with drugs? I think we did. I think we saw some great comedians not continue their career because of it, because of alcohol and drugs got in the way. Um, so no, I think, I think I'm with you that there. I, I— yeah, I think, uh, no, they should stay illegal. Yeah, yeah. I, I just think, you know, sort of as much as we could, you know, as much as I could support people to make sure that— because for you as a performer, you know, it's not like a job that you do that you know this is going to be fine. You're up against the metal every time you perform. Yeah. You know, yeah, you're gigging. This has been a gig, and now we've got a gig society, but it's not quite the same as Deliveroo, is it? Yeah, it's not. No, no, no. You know what I mean? They call that a gig society. No, if you really want to know become a comedian, then you know what big society is. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. You know, the, the forever trudging around the country, um, sometimes not knowing what you're going to, going to get when you arrive at a venue. Yeah. Um, and then having to, to adjust what you do to the surroundings you're in. Sometimes the clubs aren't set up as well as, as the Jongleurs was, uh, you know, there's so many mistakes promoters make, and maybe the audience aren't in a great mood that night. It's been raining. Maybe it's, you know, they're halfway through the month and they're desperate to get paid, whatever the problems that they've got, that they're there and it's your job and you have to then adapt to that environment and how they're feeling and get your stuff out. And that can be, that can be really hard. And then the next night you're in another one, you're in a different— and you're touring. And I think that's one of the major reasons that women find it difficult, because that touring element is hard for a lot of women. And I'm not saying that as a— whatever people call it, sexist, whatever you like. No, I think it's quite a tough thing to do. I think it is. I mean, traveling is, is the job. I mean, that's what we do. Exactly. Um, you know, the, the on stage bit. That's our lunch hour. Yeah, that's a bit of joy in the day, you know. The rest of it's a sludge. Staying in hotels sounds great. People go, oh, you stay in hotels? It's not, it's just not, you know. I mean, people say to me, oh, you're on the cruise ships, that must be amazing. Well, yes, it is, it's— but you're on your own, you're in your cabin most of the time, you work 2 nights a week, um, sometimes you don't speak to anyone for a whole day. Uh, oh, but you can get off the ship and walk around. Yes, you can, but when you've, when you've been to Naples 4 times that year, you've been to Naples 4 times, you know, Naples, Glasgow, it's, it's, it's a city and you're on your own. So there are the, the problems with that. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a tough life, it really is. It's, um, you know, you're sacrificing your, your home time, your family. I mean, I feel for a lot of the comics now that are touring around and they've got young children, you know. I mean, we, we, we in our day were very based in London, really, wasn't it? In the '90s, it was all sort of London was a comedy central. And so if you lived there, you just did your gig and went home. Yeah. So you had the family life, you know. But now it's, it's it's, it's around the country. And, uh, I mean, it was then too, but, but not so much, not in the same way, not in the same way. London was, was the comedy. That's why everybody flocked here back then. So now it's, uh, can you do Halifax tonight? Can you do Norwich tomorrow? Yeah, I do think Cardiff— we were talking about this the other day about, you know, we do need to reorganize the comedy world, uh, to bring it to its former glory. Obviously, you know, that would be fantastic to do, but, you know, sort of not taking away from the joys of— wait, how did you do your first gig? How did you think about your first bit of content? I was— well, I came to London in 1986 when I was 17, so I hitched a lift to London. Did you? From Scotland? Yeah, I did. And I mean, it's terrifying to think about it now, but I did. I hitched a lift to London and my brother Andrew was already in London at the university. Yeah. So I know I'm going to London. So off I went and I had no idea what I was going to do with myself. I'd wanted to be an actor. That's what I wanted to do. And, and I think I would have been a good actor. I just couldn't remember the lines. I was terrible. I was terrible at learning. I mean, I watch actors and I think, how do they remember all that? You know, I find it difficult remembering my own show, you know, sometimes. Oh, I missed that bit. I don't know, you know, but they have to learn those things. I'm amazed. But, um, but yeah, that's what I wanted to do. And I came down and I was trudging about. I remember it very well. I was trudging around Leicester Square and I saw The Comedy Store when it was in Leicester Square. And, um, I thought, oh, that's great, I'll go to that. So I remember going in, paid my 4 quid or whatever it was, 5 quid, and, um, I remember sitting in the front row because I was so excited to be at this event. Never been anywhere like it, never seen anything like it. And I remember John Lenahan was comparing, right, the magician. Yeah, yeah, the wonderful John with the round glasses, the mustache. He was just the funniest thing I'd ever seen. He was incredible, incredibly funny. And I'd never been to live comedy and I laughed like I'd never laughed before. And I just thought, that's what I want to do. That's it. You know, as John Lennon said about seeing Elvis on the screen for the first time, he went, hmm, that's a good job. You know, that's kind of how I felt. You know, I watched, um, I watched, uh, Kevin Day. I watched Kevin Day. Yeah, and Mark Thomas. I mean, they were all very young comics then. Um, this was '86, so they were there. Um, and then I saw Jerry Sadowitz, which— well, Jerry is brilliant. Utterly blew my mind. He was, yeah, probably the funniest comedian I've ever seen live, I think. And that's, that's the three of you then, you, Jerry, and Billy, all from Scotland. All from Scotland, yeah. Well, there we are, there's a lot of it about. No, but you know what, can I just add this just as a claim— not a claim to fame, but a sort of, uh, bonding thing. Uh, parents Polish, and in Poland, in— I think it's Lvów where my mother came from, which is Lviv now in Ukraine, but that's a historical point. And the movement of all that geographical area at that point But there's a Scottish cafe out there. There was a big bond between the Scots and the Poles, by the way. Yeah, yeah. So just so you know, there were lots of Poles that were stationed in Scotland. My parents— That's right. —came over, were stationed, my mother near Wales and my father in Buckinghamshire. That's right. When they came over after the war. Yeah, that's right. There are probably more Scots out of Scotland than there are in Scotland. No doubt about that. Wherever you go in the world, there's, there's— I was in Melbourne recently and, um, I was in St. Kilda and there's a Scottish bar in St. Kilda that serves Tennent's Lager, you know, from, from Scotland. And you— yeah, and they've got bagpipes and they do haggis and all of this. Yeah, yeah. So there you are deciding that you're going to do it. So yeah, I thought that's, that's what I'll do. Um, how do I do it? How do I get on here? So I, I started chatting to the acts who all thought I was— I mean, some of them do remember this young 17-year-old kid, you know, with his bum hanging out the back of his jeans, kind of wandering around. And I befriended Jimmy— uh, Jerry Sadowitz, and we became quite good friends for a while. And, uh, you know, I kind of followed him around. That's when I first went to Jongleurs, actually. I went to see him there. You booked him there because he used to come with his sister, and he had a dog, didn't he? That's right. Yes. And, and so I kind of hung around the comedy world watching. And then it was about probably '88. I was working in a hospital at the time. I was working at Middlesex Hospital in just off Goodge Street, Mortimer Street, which is no longer there. They knocked it down, which was a terrible thing that they did. But I was working there and, and the Guilty Pea was this little club on Mortimer Street, this little pub. I went to that and that reignited my, my, my want to do this thing. And, um, so I, I signed up for an open spot night, uh, at the Guilty Pig. And I turned up and I was stood there and next to me was this fella and, um, we just started chatting. And, um, and he went on and did his and was really, really, really funny. And I went on and did mine, which which was what it was, just some stupid ideas, um, that I went and played with and, and actually went down quite well. Um, and then I came off and I was, I was, and me and that chap became brilliant friends with Jeff Green. So Jeff Green and I were both doing our open spots then, and then Jeff, boom, showed up, you know, and became who he became. But we, we've always remembered that night That was, that was my first, first one really that went well, and that was, that got me on, on the tracks to, to start my own club, which is how I, I did it really. That's how I got— yeah, so that gave you the opportunity to give you, you, because you've got to do it, haven't you? The craft comes from the actual activity of doing it. Yeah, you have to do it, do it, do it. Suddenly when you get the laughs, you realize why you've got Yeah. Oh, okay. So I— if I— my timing becomes better and you start to read. No, you just learn. It's like anything, you learn by doing it, you know. You can't— you can't run a marathon next week. You've got to train. You've got to learn how to pace yourself. You've got to learn how to, you know, how to get speed up and slow down and all of those things that you do when you're training to do something like that. It's the same with comedy. You've got— you've got to learn how to read a room, uh, how to calm things down, if, if I had to deal with a heckler. All of those things you just learn by— you don't get given that. No one can give you that. You can go to comedy courses and I can teach you how to deal with a mic stand and how to make it look, you know, seamless, how to, how to sort of maybe craft your material a bit better, how to kind of deal with a heckler, you know, how to physically do it. But mentally, it's down to you. How you deal with that, and, uh, and you can only do that by doing it. There are tricks, but you get told those tricks, you've still got to find your own way through it. Um, so yeah, it— that's how we did it. And I started a club called Soho Ho, which was in Dean Street, and that ran for 25 years, I think. That only closed down a few years ago. But, uh, I started that club and I was spotted by The Comedy Cafe, which had opened in, in Rivington Street in Shoreditch. And in those days there was nothing there in Shoreditch, there was just nothing. There was not the Shoreditch it is today. So we opened the Comedy Cafe and we did 4 nights a week, and, um, and it built and built. That was about '92, '93. And, uh, so doing 4 nights a week in the one club, just concentrating on and watching others. Yeah, you booked the bigger acts, they'd come in and you'd study them, you'd watch them, you'd see how they deal with things, and then, ah, that's how they do that, okay. And, you know, the more generous acts would come up and give you pointers, say, oh, you know, see, Geoff, when you— why don't you see that instead of this? And, you know, just before you bring me on, can you see this? And maybe, you know, You know, that's how I learned. That's how I learned. And then gradually, not only did you have your clubs, but also you went on the circuit and you were absolutely quite, you know, sort of, you were prolific in your work. You know, we were always booking you. You were always working. And at what— I always— yeah. Sorry. No, at what point, how did you cope then when you had to deal with alcohol? How did you get through that time? Well, at that time in the mid-'90s, um, I was drinking regularly like everybody. I was a, you know, my mid-20s then, and I was, uh, you know, drinking. I wasn't abusing it, it was just always there. Yeah. Um, and then when I, when I decided to, to leave the caf and go out onto the circuit, that would have been about '95, '96. And I did two Edinburghs back to back. I did the Best of Scottish Comedy, which Billy Connolly came to see, and I did my impression of him in front of him, and I had no idea he was there, but I did it and it got a massive laugh. And he came back afterwards and went, ooh, you know, and that was a great moment. And then I did my one-man show in '96, and that's when I decided, right, I'm coming on to the circuit. So I was, I was really gig fit. Getting ready when I came to John Close to do my open spot. And, um, I remember doing Camden and just, you know, 7 minutes, bang! What was that? Well, that was 5 years of training. Exactly. That's what that was. That just— that had to be learned. And, and, and I knew exactly what I was going to do. And that's where, where it started. And then, then you booked a lot, and I started in the sort of the, the second slot, then it was moved up to opening the second half, and then suddenly you're closing, and that was quite quick, I think. I seem to remember, um, and yeah, you're doing it every week, you're doing it twice a night sometimes, you're doing two shows a night, so you're gonna get better and better and better, and, uh, and you're gonna drink more and more and more. Although you go on two 20-minute sets, you've got all that space in between where everybody else is having a good time. Yeah, let's go. Well, you know, let's have a drink and go to the bar. That's where all the comedians sort of sat and talked as well. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And, uh, you know, some of them drank orange juice and went home, you know. Some of them did that, and we often thought, wow, what's wrong with them? They were the smart ones, you know. Um, but we, uh, yeah, it was this big social club is what it was. And, um, we were young and, you know, it was great. It was a great time. When did it hit you that you have to give it up? Um, well, that came in— I mean, I was about 2008, I think, was when I first went, this has got to stop, because you know, it was 10 years after, you know, when I was, you know, when I was fab and, uh, when the circuit was way— and, and it was also 2008 crash, it was all coming to an end really. That was the beginning of it. And, and work started to, to dry up. I wasn't— I was no longer the young 20-something, I was, uh, you know, nearer 40, and I was putting on weight and I was unwell. And I was still doing what I was doing when I was in my mid-20s, um, and I suddenly slammed the brakes on and went, hang on a second, this has got to change. Um, so I attempted to quit alcohol in 2008, and I quit for about 8 months perhaps, um, and got into the pub business. I, I got into the pub game with a friend of mine, Peter, who, uh, we got this pub in East London, uh, at least East London, Bursa. And, um, and then he, he, um, he got cancer. Um, so we ran that for about a year before he died. And when he died, that was— I, I was— I started drinking again. The business went, um— I mean, I, I lost— I lost nothing really compared to what he lost. But, uh, uh, that was that. So I went back into the downward spiral again. The gigs were drying up. I was getting still— still getting work, but it wasn't like it was. Um, and, uh, yeah, and I just went back on it and went back on it, and I kept drinking and drinking until I knew— I knew there was going to be a day where I had to quit because I couldn't continue like this. And that was, uh, 2015. Um, midway through 2015, um, I decided that I was going to go to the doctor and tell the doctor everything, what I was doing, how much I was drinking, what drugs I was doing. I think I'd quit drugs by then, but, um, but you know, all the abuse I was doing to myself. Um, and he put me in touch with the Alcohol Concern people and the alcohol unit in East London where I was living at the time. And they sat down and they did the blood tests and the— all the— all that, all that stuff. And we went back to see him and he said, I give you 7 years. You've got 7 years, um, probably. You could be one of these guys that can drink and drink and drink until you're 95, but you probably won't be. Yeah, you've got 7 years if you keep carrying on drinking what you're drinking. And for instance, I was drinking— this was, this was a day, um, going to Glasgow Jonglers. I got up, went to Liverpool Street, and I had a drink. That was one drink. Got on the train, got a can off the cart, that was two drinks. Got to Stansted Airport, checked in, went through to— with us— with three drinks. Got onto the plane, had two bottles of those wines, five drinks. I landed in Glasgow, I went to the pub in the airport, that was six drinks, probably seven drinks. Into the taxi, got to the hotel, checked in, 8 drinks. Went to the pub around the corner, 9 drinks. This is about 4 o'clock in the afternoon by now. Then I went down to the off-license down the street and bought 2 bottles of wine and then brought them back to the room. So that's 12 drinks, probably 3 or 4 glasses. Went to the club, had a pint, 13 drinks. Interval, 14 drinks. Sat there, show manager came in and said, who would like a drink? And I said, I'll have a pint please. That's it, right? So that's 17 drinks. And then I went on stage. Yeah. And then I came off stage after doing well, came off stage, sat down and said, right, who wants a drink? Hmm. You know, that was then, oh, it's time for a drink now, forgetting what I'd just done. Now that was just because I needed it. That was that, you know, I needed alcohol. So that's what I was doing regularly every day. So that's why I had 7 years to live if I carried that on. What triggered your determination to give it up? Was it, oh my gosh, I might only have 7 years, or oh my gosh, my body's giving up? Or, you know, clearly it wasn't, I won't be able to perform, because you were able to. Yeah, yeah, I was. But I was still, I was still, by that time I was starting to, starting to show. You know, I was no longer the dynamic little, you know, a little bit drunk sort of 25-year-old, 27-year-old. I was a 40-year-old man who was coming on a little bit inebriated, and that wasn't a good look. Yeah. So, uh, that, that my, my work was suffering. I was, uh, you know, he just turns up drunk, this guy, right? Uh, and, and he gets away with it. Um, no, I was bored. And was it self-respect? Do you think it's self-respect that you've got to have? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to have that, you know. If you don't respect yourself, then what have you got, you know? Um, uh, I, I just got bored. That's what it was, Maria. I was just— I've had enough. I'm sick of sitting in the pub all day. I'm sick of drinking wine. I'm sick of having to get up in the morning and think about alcohol. Yeah, I am so fed up with being drunk. I'm so fed up with upsetting my family. Um, I've got to stop this. And also, you know, my body is starting to tell me that this is having an effect. So yeah, that was my thought. So I saw these people and we made a date, which was the 15th of December. And that was the date I said, right, I'm quitting then. And so I had a week at home detox where I had the nurse come every day and give me, uh, we had, uh, Librium tablets, which zonk you out and get you through the terrible DTs. And, and after 5 days, the alcohol was out my system, 6 days, and I felt incredible. I felt, oh wow, I felt free. I felt just clean, you know. Oh, oh, this is great. Oh, oh, this is how you can be every day. Wow, okay, I'll, I'll do this. Um, waking up without a hangover, waking up without having to think about alcohol. Um, so the process then was to go everywhere I'd been, but this time not drink. No, go to Liverpool Street and don't go to that pub. Yeah, get on the train and have a cup of tea instead of a beer. Go to, go to the clubs and just drink fizzy water. You're literally retraining yourself. Your neurological pathways have to all be retrained. And completely remove everything that you did before and replace it with fizzy water. And, and, you know, alcohol is alcohol, right? A pint of lager. So you must miss a glass of wine and, and then that with a steak or whatever. Yeah, I kind of do, but I kind of messed up, so I can't have that. And that's alcohol disguised as wine. That's how I look at it. No, and that's, that's, that's alcohol disguised as beer. That's alcohol disguised as whiskey. You can put it in, it's a different color and you can put it in a different shaped glass, but it's alcohol and I can't have that. So remove all the, the, the packaging and the, the, the what, however it's made, remove all that and what it is, a pint of beer, watching the football or whatever, it's alcohol and I can't have that. So that's shut her down. So replacing it with tonic water or, or fizzy water, whatever, um, was good enough for me. That— because it takes absolute determination, doesn't it? It does. And also it, it took for me just to remember what my life was like. Exactly. But also how much money I didn't have, you know. But that, that, but that whole retraining part is quite intense. Yeah, it is. It took, it took a year. Yeah. Um, and then when I got to— that's why I quit just before Christmas. Yeah. Because Sarah and partner, she said, um, oh, you know, it's Christmas, uh, coming up. Do you sure you want to quit just before Christmas? And then, and then we're going on holiday in January. And then I said yes. And then it's my birthday. And then it's going to be Easter. And then it's going to be the summer. And then it's going to be your birthday. And then it's going to be Christmas again. So when do I do it? At which point do I stop? Because I think stopping just before Christmas, doing Christmas dry, when I get to next Christmas, I've already done it, so I can do it. So there's no, there's no fear that I'm gonna— oh, okay, you know, a big run-up to Christmas now, I've got to get through this one, you know, this is the big one. None of that, because I've done it. So did the doctor scare you when he said if you carry on like this, you've got 7 years? Which, by the way, 2015 last year was the 7 years. Well done. He said I'd never make it. Yeah, of course, you've got that determination, haven't you? Did that help, him sort of scaring you a little bit? Um, it was part of it. Yeah, I don't think it scared me. I think I knew that anyway. I kind of figured that I didn't have, I didn't have long before my body started to shut down, or before I could start to get really ill. So I mean, when, when the test results came back, he said, you know, I don't know how you've got— from what you've told me about how you drink, I don't know how you've got away with it, but your liver is a fighter and it's, it's going to be, it's going to be fine. And so I was like, well, that's great. So that was another— he said, but it, but it, but it will, it will eventually pack up. Yeah. You know, I don't think that that's, that's giving you a free, you know, free pass. Yeah, free pass. You know, that, that you've, you've got away with it just, but you have to quit. So, um, it did sort of, it shocked me into, I used it as a, as a, you know, as something to, to write, this is why I'm doing this. That's a reason why is, is, is, is that, but also it was the boredom of it. Um, the, the drudgery, oh, the pacing around looking for a drink all the time was just so tedious. Um, the money, you know, the money I didn't have because I'd given it to landlords and, and, and drank it. And how important was your partner being supportive to you at that point? Sarah was immense. Yeah, she was incredible. She— we've been together for 20— I think we met in '99, so 24 years. So, uh, and she's been through— she's seen all of it and she's stuck by me and she's been immense, incredible. Yeah, I couldn't— I couldn't do it without— I couldn't have done it without her, really. And, uh, you know, that's the benefit of somebody who really cares for you, to be there. Absolutely, absolutely. But there's many people that just don't get through that, but you have, and you've told us about that. So we're coming— we haven't got long before we finish, which is always amazing to talk to you, Jeff. Um, yeah, let's talk about your 1 million YouTube gig. You know, your YouTube show that, uh, you have called by Noel, wasn't it? He told you. Yeah, yeah, it was. Tell us about that actual clip. Okay, the clip was filmed in Holland back in '90s, back in the '90s, and it was a TV show called Rhyme in His Latte, which was a comedy show. And we did quite a lot because the Dutch were coming over and doing comedy with us and we were going over and doing their shows. It was the first real sort of international connection we had. And so they were doing these TV shows and I did this show Rhyme in His Latte and I did the Robert De Niro routine where he's the president of the United States and he tell Saddam Hussein what he thinks, and it was a great routine and it was a good impression, you know, the old Dinero thing. And so someone who I don't know put the clip on YouTube, some person I'd never met, never heard of, stuck it on YouTube. So I knew it was there, but I don't like watching myself, I'm not a big fan of, you know, watching what I do, I don't know, Creepy. But anyway, um, Noel contacted me last year and said, 1 million views, not bad, kid. And I was like, what? And he had my clip, and I was like, oh, that clip? Wow, really? 1 million views? Gosh, amazing. Um, so I was very proud of that, but I think I was more overwhelmed by the comments from my peers, um, about the clip, about that old routine that I used to do and some of my, you know, esteemed colleagues, let's say. Yeah, great friends. Do a little bit of your— because I remember this about you and, you know, sort of apart from Rory Bremner. Come on, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? What, what, what? Yo, yo, yo. You know, it was— yeah, I know, I lost my earpiece there because of that. But yeah, so has Robert De Niro seen it? I'm sure he has. Apparently he has. Now, hang on a sec, I've just dropped my little— Go on then, what are you gonna do? What? What? Yo, yo, yo. You know, I remember the audience, everybody just loved it. I never got tired of watching that. Yeah, it was, it was great fun. So, you know, hearing my, my, uh, my peers talking about it, seeing how much they loved it, and, uh, that was, that was great. I was really proud of it. So I'm proud of it, but I still haven't watched it. No, and I understand. So how much time do you spend working on your material now? Well, now, um, I'll, after we finish here, I will get the, get the laptop out and start to the develop another sort of— I need another 10 minutes for my second show on the ship. I need to sort of start expanding on some ideas that I've got, so I'll spend a bit of time doing that. Um, it's difficult though because we don't get to perform as regularly as we used to do on the circuit, so, um, I've got to sort of, uh, you know have the show in my head and maybe run through it a little bit, do a carpet rehearsal, as I call it, you know, and then take it to the ship next time. And do you think this is preparing you for the bigger stage? Because, you know, when you look at people like Mickey Flanagan, Dara O'Briain, Eddie Evans, all those, Michael McIntyre, that do the, you know, stadiums, they all start with us. You know, of course they did. Yeah. So do you think this ship gig is preparing you for those stages? It could be. I, I, I— who's, who's going to say? I, I can't see, um, what's going to happen. I'll just carry on doing what I do, um, and, uh, hopefully people will really enjoy it. If anything more comes from it, then great. And if it doesn't, it doesn't matter. I've had a great run. I've had a great time. You've got so much more to do. Sure have, but so far so good. And, you know, we'll see where we go from here. But at the moment, it's sad to see the comedy circuit in the state it's in. You know, the young comics don't realize it, but it could be so much better than this. Really, really could. And it should. And hopefully it will be again as good as it was in our day. Um, but it's also got to be, you know, sort of when I look at young comedians, you know, and if you have people who've been more experienced, you can definitely tell the difference. And there was a period, a very short period, where everybody went, oh no, I've just got to see young comedians. But that wasn't enough. You know, you need people who actually manage the craft. And it is a— it's a craft, it's an art, there's a science, it's everything mixed in for that moment that you're on stage and you spark the audience and they're with you and they engage with you and you're telling them your story and they absolutely love you and they are just in that moment with you. And young people think it's, oh, I can adopt this phrase, or, you know, that person work, and it just doesn't work like that. Yeah, it doesn't feel a part of yourself. Yeah, definitely. Bob Mills said something to me once, um, the brilliant Bob Mills. Yeah, uh, when we were, we were going to, to a gig once, and he said, um, and I wasn't feeling in the mood, I was like, I'm a bit fed up, and I'm gonna let this— and that, it was like, well, whatever, you know, this show is going to be— I don't want to do this one. And I was mourning And Millsy was just looking at me, and then he said, do you remember the first comedy show you've ever went to? And I said, yeah, and it was the one at the Comedy Store. He said, do you remember how hard you laughed? I said, yeah. And what a brilliant time you had. I said, yeah. You've got to do that for them now. Yeah, so you've got to give— you've got to give that to them. And the way you're talking to me now, you're not going to give them any of that. So how dare you? Get to work. I was like, well, okay. And he was right. He's absolutely right. Yeah. And so I went to try to give my best that night, and we did a great show. But yeah, he was right. And you do that every night. And now you do that all the time. So Jeff Boyz, so Boyz with a B-O-Y-Z. And yes, on YouTube, please look out for Jeff's clip. I'm so sad it's coming to the end of this interview, but it's been brilliant. Me too. And that tells me time is up. But thank you so much, Jeff, for being here with me, Dr. Maria Kempinska, on this interview. My pleasure. It's been, been wonderful.