Get Booked – Rose Elliot’s Complete Vegan

Hello, I'm Hazel Butterfield and this is Get Booked for Women's Radio Station. I hope you're all well and raring to go. As part of our aim here at Women's Radio Station to support women's emotional well-being, I have an excellent guest in the studio today who is going to tell us about one of the incredible lifestyle choices that it is just blowing up at the moment. We have the incredible Rose Elliott, MBE, Britain's foremost vegetarian cookery writer, and her books have won her popular acclaim all over the world, writing over 60 vegetarian and vegan books. But Rose Elliott was a vegan and a vegetarian before it was trendy. Imagine that. Rose, hi, how are you? Hello, hi, very nice to be with you. Now, um, how does it feel to be a bit of a trendsetter? I mean, you, you were into veganism before, you know, Instagram took over. I, I was, yes. It, it feels very exciting really. Um, I was so unusual when I was growing up as a little girl, you know, I had to explain to people I was vegetarian then. That was before I was vegan, and people just didn't even know what vegetarian was in those days. Makes me sound very old, doesn't it? To be honest, no, not really. I mean, when I was a child, like, I was, when I was about 5, I decided to be a vegetarian and people just couldn't get their head around it. And it was so, but to be fair, even now, some of my family members who are definitely not vegetarians, extreme meat eaters, They, you know, they'll cook me a fry-up and they'll go, "Oh, just get over it. You're still doing that silly thing." They don't. Gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not so in the city. I mean, London, you've got, you have vegan options in some of the best steak restaurants in the centre of London. It's fantastic. I know. It's very exciting now. It's just, as you say, so different from how it used to be. So did it— well, have you been a vegetarian literally since you were 5? Well, I have. I now class myself as a flexitarian. I just— yeah, when I was a vegetarian, I think there was something that happened. I saw— I never liked eating meat. I don't think I've ever eaten a steak in my life. And I never— I would never actually cut it up, or somebody was— somebody else had to do it for me just because I couldn't I couldn't actually put a knife in it. There's something that didn't sit well with me. And I saw prawns with the head and the eyes and the tails, and I moved away from my table and then didn't touch meat for pretty much 10, 15 years. Mm. Now, these days I will eat a little bit of chicken breast if it's from a really good place or as a one-off. And even then, sometimes I'm not in the right headspace to be able to do it. I have two children who eat meat, fish, and everything. They're absolute gannets. They will eat everything that's put in front of them. So I cook it. You know, if they had a ham and mushroom pizza and they didn't wanna eat all of it, I'd quite happily just pick off the ham and eat the pizza. I'm not, so that's why I call myself a flexitarian. But I can quite happily vegan every single day and quite often do. And then, you know, there's no set rules really. That's very interesting. Yeah. Because I went— as I said in the book, I went vegetarian really when I was about 3 or 4. My parents were eating chicken. They were becoming vegetarian and they were just eating a little fish and a little chicken. And one day— I've actually said this in the book— I saw my mother preparing herrings, whole herrings for supper. She was chopping the heads off. And I suddenly realized that what she was going to give me it was fish and had been— and I said, "Has that been killed specially for me?" And she was completely honest and she said, "Yes." And I said, "I'm not going to eat it then." And I made a huge fuss actually. And I didn't eat fish again. And very soon after that, the whole family became vegetarian because I think they got fed up with me fussing and they realized that, you know, the fish really wasn't anything that they needed to eat. But the interesting element is, I think, here is that you were a child, and sometimes parents, or just people in general, just assume that children are trying to be picky, picky eaters. And it can be an awful nuisance for parents, can't it? I mean, let's face it. But that's interesting that, you know, they don't take notice of the children in the way that they would an adult. I mean, I think that's changing these days. There are a lot of people that are You know, they've got more access to YouTube channels and just accessing all the incredible programmes out there that have been bringing to light the sustainability factors and the cruelty involved in some of the mass production of, you know, chicken, eggs and whatnot. And I think they are giving, they are being given a bit more acceptance. And also, do you know what? So much easier. You go to any place now, you go to whether it's a fast food rubbish place or a high-end place or, you know, middle of the road, there isn't one vegan option, there isn't one vegetarian option. You're talking, you know, 20, 30 different options just in your, you know, Pret a Manger or anything like that. It's incredibly easy. I know, that's such a change. I mean, for me, as all the years I was vegetarian, and really all we were ever offered was, um, an omelette, which was always very popular. They— people always like offering an omelette or grated cheese, and that literally is all we could eat when we, when we went out for a meal. See, I remember I was brought up, um, in the north, and I remember the only option always being spinach and ricotta cannelloni. And I don't have a huge problem with it, but I've never eaten it just because It used to just get my back up that that was the only option ever. You go to a pub, you go to a cafe, that was your vegetarian option. I was like, come on. It's terrible, isn't it? You get so bored with the idea of these things. Macaroni cheese was another popular thing that we used to be offered when I was little, but it's so boring. Yeah. And the thing is, I mean, I've been cooking a lot of your recipes and a friend of mine's daughter, she's been a vegetarian since she was 5, but she turned vegan about a year ago. About a year ago. Oh, good. Yeah, and she's loving it. But there is this whole kind of element with kids who possibly wanna be picky eaters and then they decide they wanna be vegan as well. I'm like, come on, if you wanna be a vegan, then you need to accept that you need to eat more of the vegan options. You know, you can't just say, I don't like fruit and veg and certain nuts. You're gonna have to open up your options a little bit more. So there's a bit more responsibility that needs to be taken, I think, especially on the children's side. That's absolutely true. You can get absolutely all the nutrients you need as a vegan, but you have to— yes, you just have to be open to new dishes and things that you might not have thought about eating before. But once you get used to it, it really isn't that difficult at all. And as you say, there's just so many different vegan options now being offered that you can be a very healthy, happily fed Vegan, well-fed vegan, yep. Oh yeah, completely. It's so incredibly easy. I've been cooking a lot of your recipes and what I also do is like, for example, the aubergine fritters. I quite often— Oh yeah, oh, they're nice, yeah, that's good. Yeah, well, I'm actually, I'm gonna be cooking those tonight, but I've got courgette as well, so I'm gonna do courgette and aubergine fritters. So I feel like, I look through your book regularly and I put my little tabs on there and I'll quite often put 3 different dishes together to make it one dish. Oh, lovely! That sounds very good. But I absolutely adore it. I did actually do the vegan chilli for New Year's Eve. Did you? Oh, good! I did a chicken— Was it good? Did you enjoy it? Loved it! It was— yes! I did a vegan chilli and a chicken curry because there's always going to be a vegan. If you've got more than 2 people coming to something, the likelihood is there's going to be a vegan at that event these days. Yes, that's wonderful. I think it's wonderful to hear. It's absolutely true. Well, I've made the vegan chilli about 6 times now because I just constantly make it, and then, you know, you're ready for your packed lunches. I make a really big batch of it and then I'd shove it in the freezer, take it here, there, everywhere, go and kind of take it round to my friend's house for her daughter, and it's so incredibly healthy and good for the soul because I put red wine in mine. Oh, lovely. Yeah, it sounds delicious. You're making me want to go out and run out and make my chilli again now. Yeah, strange, isn't it? Certain people choose certain recipes and they, they could make them their own. Well, I mean, that's the thing though, isn't it? And also, it's— I've got, um, a friend, a couple who are both vegans, and they come around for dinner all the time, and I quite often make a meal where basically you can just shove a steak on top of it for anybody else that's kind of coming as well. And then they'll be sitting there eating all their snacks and they're like, 'Oh, wait a minute, your friends can't eat that.' I'm like, 'No, it's all vegan.' And they're like, 'What?' I love it when that kind of thing happens because some people have got this sort of set idea that vegan food isn't very nice. Even today when there's so much delicious vegan food around, some people just think, 'Oh no,' you know. But when they eat it, perhaps not knowing it's vegan, and then say it's delicious, it's extra exciting, I think. Well, yeah, I mean, my other half the other day is like, 'Oh, it's so annoying that she's a vegan because she won't eat this, that, and whatever.' And I went, You've just had a vegan meal at my house. He goes, "Oh." I'm like, "The majority of what you eat sometimes is vegan. Pringles, you have a snack, it's vegan." You know, if he has a bit of avocado on toast, it's vegan. And he's like, "Oh yeah, okay, fair enough. When you put it that way, yeah, fine." They just don't like to accept it, do they really? Yeah, there's definitely a resistance. Isn't that? But it's just stereotyping that we've still got a bit, although as you say, it's changing just so much now with so many people enjoying it and so many foods all around that are delicious and vegan. It's— they can't hold on to that idea for too long, I don't think. And one of the well-being factors is that it is incredibly healthy. It's good for the soul. There are so— I used to hang out with a lot of rugby players, and the amount of them that are vegans because it is you know, it helps them build muscle, work out, feel, you know, not as lethargic. And there are a lot of extremely fit and strong men out there that are turning to veganism. And it just, it says so much to, it says so much for the cause, doesn't it? It really does. It's such a turnaround, isn't it, when people used to associate veganism with sort of delicate, weak old ladies and not these wonderful Sporty men. I agree. I was reading the other day how many, um, sportsmen— actually, Rose, so I'm just gonna have to cut you off there. We're just going to go to our break and we'll be back in a minute. But I do want to talk about rugby men. Lovely. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte, on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Judy May Is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Meg Matthews and I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Join us for a brand new show on Women's Radio Station. It's the Meg's Menopause Show. Yes, for the first time on radio, there's an entire show dedicated to the menopause. A fresh new approach where we inform you of all the choices and treatments that are out there. Supportive and empowering, this is your show. 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And together, our mission is a simple one, and that's to inspire you to kick away the roadblocks too, to don your wings and be the person that you were born to be. Hi, I'm Hazel Butterfield, a blogger, book lover, and mental health advocate. And you can listen to my show, Get Booked, here Women's Radio Station daily at 5 AM and 5 PM. Throughout my shows, we'll talk about the books I've read, new releases, chat to authors, publishers, and book enthusiasts, all with the theme and aim of supporting women's emotional well-being. If you have a book to tell us about, get in touch at presenters@womensradiostation.com. Join me on my show and share my love of books and writing. You're listening to Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station's creating a global network for the empowerment of women, and we want you to be involved. Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation, that's Women's Radio Station, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to Get Booked. It's so nice to listen to all the other fantastic presenters here, especially about the new show Meg's Menopause, presented by Meg and Caroline. Fantastic duo there. Um, we have in the studio today on Get Booked Rose Elliott, MBE, and we've just been talking about Rose's latest book, Rose Elliott's Complete Vegan. Um, and my apologies, Rose, before we went off to the break. I had to cut you off and you were talking about rugby men. I never want to cut you off when you're speaking about rugby men. That's not often I do either, so I think that was the first, really. Yeah, my apologies. We should, we should, we should completely make sure this whole section is just about vegan rugby men. I, I do find it exciting though that, you know, um, people who used to think veganism was so ridiculous and just for, just for ladies and old people and people now are absolutely swearing going by it and using it to become fitter and better at their sport. I mean, it's a real turnaround, isn't it? But the thing is, it does make you feel better if you can do it properly. Um, and it is— I mean, I know that when I have 3 or 4 days of just eating vegan, I, I feel lighter and more energetic. But also sometimes if I'm a bit run down, and that is, I guess, where my flexitarianism comes in, or you know, laziness as well. I'm just right. I want to go for this and I want to eat a lot of cheese. That's interesting. I think that the purity of the ingredients of a— well, a very fact, actually. I mean, they're not necessarily as pure as pure. Some of the ones, if you're buying a lot of manufactured vegan products, they're fine. But if you're really basing it particularly on You know, fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains. You know, they haven't additives in. They're just natural, pure, healthy foods. Do you know what? Somebody said that to me the other day and they were saying, "Oh, the vegan option in KFC, it's just full of nonsense." I'm like, "Yeah, but so are all the other meals at KFC. They're just making sure, you know, that it's probably still healthier than the other ones." And it's like, well, all these vegan snack bars are just full of this, that and whatever. Like, yes, but the non-vegan ones are full of that as well. They're doing it like for like, but just a vegan version. So I think there's sometimes mixed messages going around there. Yeah, that's really true, actually. What you're saying is interesting. Yes, I just am doing the same with vegan food as they do with all the other types of food and making them mass-produced and adding preservatives and all the other things. But, and, but as we were just saying, the actual vegan diet is, is very pure. And I think the very fact that, um, it uses a lot of vegetables and, well, nuts and seeds, the things I was saying, I mean, they're just such healthy ingredients to start off with. Uh, completely. And do you know what, what I find quite interesting is, um, I was obsessed with the first few pages of your book when I started reading it. First of all, I mean, there's the food labels explained. And when you actually look at what you have in your foods and then you wonder why you might not be feeling too great, oh, and why, you know, maybe some vegan, what was the joke about vegans? How do you know who a vegan is? Have you heard this joke? I don't know, tell it to me. So basically it was a joke. How can you tell if someone's a vegan? And the punchline is they'll tell you within the first 3 seconds of meeting you. Eating them. Oh yes, I have heard that. I'm afraid it's rather true, isn't it? Oh dear. It's quite funny. But the thing, so page 16, food labels explained. I was looking at this and I think, do you know what? I get my, I used to get my nails done with shellac and yet it has female scale insects in the actual content, hasn't it? It has, absolutely. I know it's quite enlightening when you read them. And of course, in a way, when you begin to really look into your diet, it does make it harder work because you really want to make sure that, you know, you're not having some of these things. But you get used to it after a while when you've, you know, been vegan for a little bit and kept track of all these things and found the foods that haven't got them in. You do get used to it. I think sometimes people worry if they really want to go vegan and be pure, they worry about trying to get absolutely perfect at the beginning. And you can certainly do your best, but it sometimes takes time to track down some of these sort of non-vegan ingredients that are put into products and eliminate them from your diet. But I think the thing is just to make up your mind that you really want to go vegan and then just work towards it at your own pace as well as you can, and you get there in the end. And we do have some incredible supermarkets out there now that are just making it so much easier for us and just saying, "It is vegan, we've checked it for you." I know, more. It makes it so much easier, doesn't it? But— That's wonderful. I do think when, I mean, we all know that sweets have gelatin in it, but when you actually read the description on page 16, which is derived by boiling the skin, bones, tendons, and ligaments of cows and pigs, It makes Haribo not sound as tasty as it used to be, doesn't it? It absolutely does. Yes, it does. Um, oh my, sorry, my phone went off in the background. I hope you didn't hear and it didn't interrupt. Um, yes, it does. I mean, thinking of a bone and, and all the other nasty plasma sometimes they put in, um, and the things. Yeah, and we just eat them with, without even knowing they're in there unless we read the the label and know what it means. And all these E numbers, you know, when you start to read, for instance, that E901 is beeswax, um, used as a glazing agent. Well, E120 is the one that really scares me. Oh, the cochineal? Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah, it is. It's horrible because you see these E numbers and you go, oh yeah, E numbers are bad for you, you shouldn't have those. But you know, they seem to be in everything. But when you see the E20— E120 is derived from the crushed up bodies of beetles. You just think— I know, I know, it's horrible. The fact that people have used these animals and insects and things, you know, when they don't really need to. Who needs to have red colouring made from beetles? It's terrible. I mean, for the beetles, as well as for us feeling, oh, we don't fancy eating beetle particularly. Well, the thing is, if you put in an E number, nobody knows exactly what it is. Who's going to actually check? But this is why it's quite good, because you know, you can just have a screenshot or just make sure you check these kind of bits and pieces every now and again. And as you say, you get used to it and it doesn't necessarily have to be so hard. But what I would like to know, what are your thoughts on beeganism? What are my thoughts on veganism? No, beeganism. Beeganism? Yeah, the idea that you can be a vegan but still eat the products of bees because it's— Oh, honey, you mean? Yeah. You're talking about honey. I get you. Well, it's a very moot point, that, because if bees are well cared for in the old-fashioned traditional way and nurtured and looked after and you don't take that honey away in the winter, so you let them have their own honey, then I don't think there's cruelty involved. But personally, I don't want to eat honey. I just don't. I feel it's for the bees and I do draw a line there, but for many years vegans, the traditional vegans who were, you know, very bravely being vegan before anyone really knew what the word was, they did, many of them did eat honey. And I think honey was a healthier product in doses, healthier for the bees. I mean, it was, you know, modern ways of beekeeping have changed very much. Like for instance, flying bees to a certain hive and then killing them when they've done polinated the things around and so on. So I don't really think it's a very good idea, but as I say, honey isn't always produced cruelly. But what do you think about it? I think it's a case of differentiating it, and if there's a way of making sure, you know, that it was— because the thing is, bees do help pollination. We do need to promote beekeeping and to help protect them, but You know, if there isn't a need for bees because we stop eating honey, then I think there's going to be certain environmental issues that we'll need to have to address. But, you know, it's like with a lot of situations, mass production is not okay and it ruins the system. But I do think there is an element of usage required to keep the market going and to make sure that they are looked after. Yes, I think I really very much agree with your point of view on that. The trouble is with these things when, as you say, mass production sets in and then the profit motive sets in and, and so on, and the, um, the natural process is disturbed to the detriment of the bees. But the bees are having such a tough time anyway at the moment with all the different, um, viral things that are around affecting them. And we need bees, we do need the bees. And if people, you know, if people completely stop eating honey, I suppose there won't be bees. There can't be. The two things are so related anyway, aren't they? And it's one of those difficult questions really, but personally I don't eat honey. My husband eats honey and he used to keep bees, so You know, we represent both sides of the argument. I think this is the argument for everything in moderation. 'Cause I've even said, you know, I buy meat and fish for my kids because I think it's up to them to make the decision. But they eat vegetarian and vegan food as well, quite often without their knowledge. But I'm very much on, you know, if I go out with my partner for a meal, I'm like, go for the meat, go for the really good quality stuff because, you know, all in moderation. Instead of having, you know, a 50p chicken breast from some extremely cheap supermarket, have it less often and maybe pay a little bit more and have a more— I mean, it's not never going to be humane, but there are, you know, definitely better producers out there. Likewise with chocolate, don't buy 10 bars from Poundland, buy buy a sustainable variety of said product. And I think that's quite a nice compromise for everybody. We do need certain farming to go on to kind of help the environment, but it's quite an emotive subject at the moment. And there's quite a few more issues I want to talk about to you in the next section. We're going to go off. We've already halfway through today's show, Rose. Time has flown by. We'll be back in 3 minutes. See you then. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity, from opinions, career, ethnicity, education, and most importantly, women's well-being. 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Oh, that's so lovely to hear. I must admit I was thrilled with the way Watkins produced it. It's lovely, isn't it? You can feel you could really eat the food off the page. Oh, completely, and the colours, I mean, it's just vibrant, it looks fantastic. And the lovely pink-tinted page, I don't know what you call it, the pages, so that when you see the book All the pages look pink on the edges. Yeah, I know. There's a special name for that. I can't remember what it was, but I was so thrilled. They don't do it for all the books. It's a treat, a special treat when they do that for a book, and they chose to do it for mine, so I was delighted. Well, I think, 'cause one of the major things about the way it looks with the green outside and then the actual spine, not spine, the outside edges, as you were saying, being pink, it just, it makes it look like a coffee table book. So it's one of those ones where, you know, you'd leave out as kind of a bit of a fashion statement, It does look like a coffee table book, you're quite right, I agree, but also it does look like a very practical book, so I think they've managed to just get a beautiful balance. I was really thrilled with what they did for my book, I must say. And what you just said there about the book being quite practical as well, I've learned so many tricks in your book, just about, you know, one of my favourite ones, and I've told this to so many people and I've used it for so many different parts of my cooking, is shoving coconut milk, a tin of coconut milk in the fridge so it separates, and then you drain off the water, and the cream afterwards can be used as sour cream, can be used to make ice cream. It can be, well, pretty much anything. I'm so glad you like that because I, I love that too. Um, and actually it's very good for you as well, just to change the subject slightly. It's a very healthy thing, the coconut milk. So not only does it taste delicious, it's, and it's easy, as you say, if you put it in the fridge and chill it. It's also good for you. So plus, plus, plus. Yeah, complete. And there's so many different ideas in there as well that you've actually— I mean, I had to write a blog about— I say I had to, I was kind of urged to— about B12 because my levels were so incredibly low. As I said before, I am a flexitarian, but, you know, it's very rare that I will eat the aforementioned chicken breast. Um, and my levels were quite low, uh, predominantly because, you know, I don't eat fish. And there was— and I think at one point I was, I was trying to be a little bit healthier and eat a bit less cheese as well. So I'm definitely not a vegan, I'm more vegetarian. But my B12 levels were so low, um, so I started doing the research on what I needed to put into my diet. And you covered— the thing For people who are, have not had time to do the research, pages 18 to 19, you kind of COVID off, you know, where you can get all these vitamins from, the good sources of protein, iron-rich food, all these questions that come about when you say to somebody, oh, I'm a vegetarian, I'm a vegan, and they're like, where are you gonna get your protein from? You're like, vegetables. You can get everything from a vegan diet, but it's good that you, you kind of separate, you know, the selenium-rich foods and the vitamin D and the B12, because people need to remember that we do need to cover off all these basic food groups as well. Yes, I'm so glad that you find that helpful. It's quite an appealing looking page, isn't it, the way they've designed it with a pink background, and you sort of feel it's nice to read. It doesn't look as if it's sort of too scientific, you know, all information's there, but, um, B12 is, is something people might worry about. Actually, my doctor made me have a blood test because she knew I was vegan, and, um, I think she was quite expecting it to come back as showing I was short of B12. So I was absolutely delighted when there was no problem at all. I got it mainly from food, I think. You know, it was— I was okay. But you can, if people are worried about B12 on a vegan diet, you can get sprays and you can get sort of liquid drops that you can just take once a day. You can actually get the vitamins to take if you need to, but you can also get it from your food. You can. Okay. But this is one of the good things about this book as well, is that it tells you where you can get these from. And actually, everything, all the research that I did before I actually got this book on B12, I mean, most of the prominent ingredients are in most of your recipes, you know. Um, it just does make it a lot easier. I mean, seaweed is— oh yeah, fantastic. I mean, now if I ever get, um, a Chinese takeaway or anything, or I go to a Whole Foods, I just grab a load of seaweed. It's brilliant. I love seaweed too. It's one of my— do you know, it's, it's, um, it's a nibble I have something I've got because I've got quite a lot of different types of seaweed for the recipes. But sometimes I'll just go to my store cupboard and take out a piece of nori or another piece of seaweed, a handful of shredded wakame, and just eat them. I mean, I think, God, I'm a bit of a freak, but it's very good for you, and I just love it. It's the salty taste, and it's very nice in some of the recipes too. I don't know. Yeah, I did actually had a huge party, um, the other day, um, well, a few weeks ago for Valentine's. Basically, I had lots of, of my girlfriends over and all their children, and some of them were vegan, some were vegetarian, some of them have certain issues with ADHD. So you've got to be careful what you're, you're feeding them in and making sure it's a bit more pure. And I basically got the hugest bag of kale, shoved it on two different trays, bit of salt, a little bit of oil, and some very finely chopped sun-dried tomatoes. And you shove it in at 120 degrees for about 45 minutes. Then it fills about 3 buckets and the kids eat it thinking it's crisps. And you're like, vegan, really, really healthy. And lovely. And it's the most easy. And you know what? It was, I think it was 69p for the really big bag of kale, and every last bit was gone. And it, and it, you know, it's 3 big bowls. It's— that's lovely, isn't it? I do think I'm very fond of kale, actually. It's also very nice in, in juice, um, as part of a green juice. I often have that with other green things as sort of a, as a sort of pick-me-up first thing in the morning sometimes. It's lovely. But, um, I think also with kale, you do, if you're going to have it as a vegetable, you do need to, you can steam it really well too. It's complete opposite from what you've said about the crisps, but steaming it all, uh, so it's tender makes it, uh, extra delicious too. Well, but that's the thing, isn't it? There are so many different options and I'm sure there's people listening going, oh, kale brigade. I'm like, but it's so tasty if you do, you know, there's different ways to do everything. Some people love steamed food, some people like fried food. You can you can, you know, do it all and try it all in so many different ways, which is what this book pretty much is telling you, especially about the different ways of how to make the, and I can't use air quotes 'cause I'm on the radio, but cheese, in air quotes, the different ways. And it sounds, it really is so incredibly easy to, the way that you've put the recipes together, it's like you've decided you wanna make it so that, you know, an 8-year-old can cook all these recipes as well. Oh, that's so nice because, you know, people do sometimes think vegan cooking particularly is very complicated. So I wanted it to be really clear and straightforward so that they really thought, oh yes, I can do that, I'll give it a try. And so I'm glad that you feel that it comes across like that. Oh yeah, completely. And I do, I've got a bit of a thing where I like to cook a lot. And if I'm a bit stressed, I like to cook as well. And sometimes people come around for dinner and, you know, there's a couple of vegans, a vegetarian, somebody who can't have wheat. And then there's, you know, my kids that just like a load of meat, my other half that just doesn't care as long as his plate is full. And they're like, "Why would you cook 6 different meals for people?" I'm like, "Because I adore it and we've all got something in common." on our plate. But that's my idea of heaven. And I had a friend who came over the other day who, she's just gone vegan because I'm always cooking vegan food. And she goes, I'm just gonna, if I ever feel like I can't be bothered cooking vegan, I'm just gonna come here. You're always cooking something. I'll just get you to make extras and I'll slip you a bit of extra money on your Tesco shop. That's excellent. You're very good for the cause of veganism. And yet I'm not one. I know, I know. And you're just I— your love of food comes across though, and I think, you know, if you love food, then you can make anything taste nice, really. Well, and what the other thing as well is that I do have IBS, and the well-being and the gut wellness factor as well with vegan food, it's— I mean, the research is there, the science is there, it's fantastic. It's especially if I'm struggling a bit, I have to go vegan for a bit just to kind of make myself feel better. And if your gut feels better, the rest— You know, that's wonderful. I've, because I've been, first of all, I was vegetarian and now I've been vegan for some years. I've just got really used to feeling really good and really light and, you know, my digestion just being really great. And you tend to forget the impact of good diet when you're actually having one and how people, you know, need to, need to make changes, or if they did make changes, they would feel so much better. Yeah, I mean, I've recently started embarking on the FODMAP diet just to try and see if I can help out with my gut health, which a lot of it— I mean, there are some meat and fish and eggs and bits and pieces on there, but it is predominantly vegetables that are going to help your gut. So I mean, the wellness factor is, you know, if you, if you go to a retreat somewhere and you're supposed to make yourself feel better, the likelihood is you're going to be going down the vegan route even if you, even if you're not a vegan, just because it is seen as being more cleansing as part of the detox route. I think that's absolutely true. I mean, you know, I think people are only just— most people are only just realizing how healthy a vegan diet is and how, you know, if more people went on to that the whole general health would improve. It's, it's, it's, it's quite an eye-opener when you start to look into it and realize that that really is the answer. Uh, it is as well. And I think there's a bit of— everyone can make their own choices, but there's a balance, I think, for everyone to have. Um, I think in our, in our final section, which is coming up in, in the next few seconds, um, I would like to talk about, um, your other vegan authors that you like as well, and some cooking tips. Yes, okay. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie May is Listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's well-being, and we're talking all things autism. Women, the possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Meg Matthews, and I'm Carolyn Van Beers. Join us for a brand new show on Women's Radio Station. It's the Meg's Menopause Show. Yes, for the first time on radio, there's an entire show dedicated to the Menopause, a fresh new approach where we inform you of all the choices and treatments that are out there. Supportive and empowering, this is your show. 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Join us on Instagram and Twitter @WomensRadioStation, that's Women's Radio Station, or Facebook Women's Radio Station to keep up to date with all our exciting programs. Welcome back to today's Get Booked. This is our final section, um, and we have been talking to Rose Elliott, the MBE and author of over 60 vegetarian and vegan books. How do you find the time, Rose? Well, I don't know, they really are a part of my life and I'm always creating new dishes, trying new ingredients and so on. So that's going on anyway in my life and just getting ideas. I don't know, ideas just come to me. I very rarely cook the same meal twice. And in fact, one of my children said to me, "Mom, you cook a meal." and you cook it perhaps twice and it's delicious, and then we never have it again because it's in one of your books. So, you know, it— but we have some favorites, obviously. But, um, I just love cooking, and I, I— and my creativity seems to come out through creating recipes, really. Well, well, it's helped you sell over 3.5 million books worldwide, so, you know, you're doing something right. Thank you. What's been going on quite a long time. I think my first book came out when I was 21, something like that. Oh wow. Delicious. It was, it was the, it was, um, my first, it was vegetarian then and it was called Simply Delicious and it was amazing. It was published by a very, very small publishing company, which my family ran and it just took off. It was everywhere. I've never had such an exciting time when a book has been published as I had that time. It was so unexpected. And that got me started. And, um, I've just gone on from then. How amazing though that you found something at 21 that you love doing and it worked. I know it was really lucky for me, wasn't it? Um, I'd been cooking for the retreat center, which my parents ran, and I'd started there when I was, well, before I was 16. I left school early and cooked, and it was because the people had loved the food that I was making, and vegetarian food was quite unusual unusual in those days, but they loved it, wanted me to write a book. And so I, I did a few years later, and that was the book called Simply Delicious, and it really did make quite an impact. It was, it was, as I said, very exciting. Brilliant. And, and do you ever get the chance to read anybody else's vegan and vegetarian books? Do you have any favorite chefs and cooks out there? Um, I love browsing through other people's books. I love looking at, at books. I'm, um, just trying to think of names. My one mind goes a blank, doesn't it, when you start asking names. But I do, I love, I just see ideas for recipes everywhere, really. But I never, I find it very hard to follow other people's recipes because I always want to go off on a tangent and do something else, change them, make them into my own recipes. But I know I love recipe books and I'm always looking for new ideal things to spark me off, you know, even if I don't actually do the recipe properly. Oh, I don't think I've ever followed a recipe in my life. I will basically look at the ingredients, and if there's something that I'm not quite sure of the process, I'll have a look, and then I'll— there's not a chance I'm weighing anything out ever. I do it to taste, and I'll add a bit of this, and I'll add a bit of that, and, you know, it's always slightly different. I mean, yeah, like yourself, I've never cooked the same meal twice. Oh, you're a cook after my own heart. Absolutely. You're just describing how I am. The only time I really take notice is if I'm wanting to work out a recipe for a book. So when I'm writing a book, I just note all the time what I'm doing and then I weigh things and jot them down or try and remember them until the recipe is completed. And then, you know, if I make it again, I'll just throw the things in like you are. But I do think that creativity is such a lovely aspect of of cooking, just sort of getting ingredients, seeing what's there, trying them and trying different spices and just, you know, having fun with it really. I think some people are so nervous about cooking and, "Oh, will it be right? Will it taste nice?" And I think if one can just overcome that and then really relax and have fun, it's such a wonderful, creative, happy process, isn't it? Do you know what? It is, and it gives people confidence as well. Something that I quite often do with my children, they are 10 and 13, 13-year-old, he's quite often on his own in between the end of school and when I get back from work, which is, you know, such as it is at age. But because he's a 13-year-old boy, he's constantly starving. And, you know, I mean, he would eat, you know, a full meal every hour if I'd let him. And he quite often, you know, I'll phone him when I finish work and it's 45 minutes for me to get back and I'm on the phone, I'm saying, turn the oven on, "Take the carrots out, chop them like this, do the potatoes, do this, add this, add this. Yeah, put them in the oven, use this." And then we're doing all these different stages and then by the time I get home, dinner's ready. And he thinks that's me helping him to get his food quicker when he's actually cooking the meal, but I'm giving him the processes bit by bit. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, and it was— What a great way to get your child cooking, honestly. Well, he loves— Boy too. And obviously when I cook meat as well, he's the one that has to be the taster. And 'cause, you know, I haven't the faintest idea what it tastes like. And he'll go, "Yep, you need a bit more of this and a bit more of that." And there was a couple of weeks ago, I was a little bit unwell and I was in bed and I came downstairs. I'm like, "What's that smell?" He'd cooked one of the meals that I'd told him over the phone while I was driving around the M25. And I was like, so that's given him the confidence to do that. He doesn't think he's doing something for me. He doesn't feel like he's being told. "Make dinner, rah, rah, rah, rah." He thinks he's using his initiative, which is, you know, pretty much how you need to manage children, isn't it? But another thing that I quite often do in terms of, I mean, cooking is my thing. If I don't get the chance to cook, I kind of lose my brain a little bit. But I'm into sustainability, and if I am a couple of days off, Tesco's arriving and a few people have been over and my fridge is depleted and whatnot, other supermarkets are available. I mean, if I've got like 2 or 3 random ingredients in the fridge, I just put all those 3 ingredients into Pinterest and just ask for a recipe, and I find that a fantastic kind of creative way of, you know, making random food that you'd never come across. That's a brilliant idea. I think I do that to some extent as well, you know. I'll look in the fridge at the end of the week and there's practically just a few weird ingredients there, like you say, and I'll think, "Oh, let's put them together," and you can create amazing things that way. You can. I think it's confidence that people need though with cooking. So many people are afraid. They say, "Oh, I've got to follow the recipe exactly, it might go wrong." If they could just relax and enjoy the process and try things and taste things as they go, they would be liberated. And a really good tip for that as well is, you know, if you cook with a glass of wine on the side, you have a bit more confidence and you're a bit more relaxed in the process. I'm definitely a supporter of drink as you go. I love it. Yes, I think I should do more of that, actually. Yeah, I tend to— I tend to wait till the meal starts before I drink the wine, but I think, you know, sometimes there's good cause for doing it while one's actually cooking. Well, especially if you get it a bit wrong and there's some sort of, you know, stew or bolognese that's not quite working, or a chili, shove a bit of wine in it, you know, and it's going to flavor it really well, and it's good for the heart. That's lovely, that last bit too. Yes, I do agree that, you know, a bit of wine Does really lift some dishes. It's an excellent tip. Yeah, it seems to be based around a lot of my tips. Yes, experience. So there's some incredible vegan and vegetarian advocates out there. Are there any particular people in the public eye that you think are doing great work for the kind of sustainable and vegan paths? Gosh, the minute you say that, my mind goes a complete blank. But I do say all the time I'm reading it and, you know, thrilled really with what, what, what, what's going on. I can't think of a personality. You remind me of someone. Oh really? I mean, I mean, you remind me of something, a name. Who you think is good? In that respect. I just, I just, when I read the paper, I'm just seeing it all the time, people saying how good veganism is, you know, how much it could change the climate, you know, if we all became vegan and all the rest of it. I just, it's everywhere, this recommendation of veganism and this way of life. I suppose I look out for it because of my work. But I just think it's really, it's really coming into its own now. And I think this fantastic work that's going on at the moment via Fern Cotton, she's, she's constantly cooking for her kids and she's done all her different books on mental well-being and wellness. And she quite often just says, oh, you know, I'm having a bit of a low day, but the best way to cheer yourself up is to make some vegan cherry brownies. And you kind of see them and you think, oh, they look absolutely delicious. But she's, you know, lovely. She's, she's She's not the typical kind of, as you were saying before, sometimes the images that we have of veganism back in the 1980s and even the early '90s. So I think that's working absolutely fantastically. There is— we are so running out of time. We have just stormed through this last hour and I've absolutely loved talking to you, Rose. But before you go, I'd love to know what's your favourite recipe in your latest book, The Complete Vegan? Oh, I love so many. I'll tell you, the book is open at this moment to Tofish and Chips. I love that. It's one of my absolute favorites. Oh, brilliant. 127. I'm a great tofu lover. It's based on tofu. It's tofu wrapped in seaweed, nori seaweed, in a batter and it looks like fish, and I give it to friends. Yeah, it's gorgeous. Do try it. Wow. Yeah, I'm having a look at it now. The chips look fantastic as well. I love the saltiness of the seaweed. I love the— I love the tofu. And of course, it's always nice to have some chips with something, isn't it? So completely a real favorite with me. But I do like a lot of them, you know. I've only put in the book things that I really love or, or my family and friends like. So it's full of favorites, really. And also, we just need to remind people that the book just looks fantastic in your house anyway. Just get it on that coffee table and get your friends just leafing through and going, oh wow, that looks quite easy to make. Well, Rose, thank you so much for joining us today here in the Women's Radio Station studio. It's been an absolute pleasure to chat to you, and I wish you all the best of luck, although I don't think you need any luck whatsoever. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure for me. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you. You too. Bye. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station, supporting women's well-being. 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