In this special episode, host Hazel Butterfield celebrates the one-year anniversary of Anja Moyić’s debut book, Love Letters to Places, with the author herself joining from Paris. Anja is a Yugoslav-Australian dancer, musician, yoga teacher, and writer who has crafted a poignant collection exploring a decade of travel, memories, and self-discovery through the lens of places that moved her. The conversation delves into how solo travel and solitude inspire creative expression, and how journaling during journeys can capture fleeting moments that might otherwise be lost to time.
The duo explore the practical and emotional aspects of travel writing, discussing how important it is to record observations in real-time rather than trying to recreate them later. Anja shares her philosophy of balancing presence with documentation—sometimes choosing to simply be in a moment without writing it down—and how discipline and habit-building are essential for writers on the move. They also discuss the journey from initial journal entries to a finished book, the need for self-care through creative expression, and how readers don’t need to travel the world to connect with these love letters to places; sometimes sitting in a local café with pen and paper is equally inspiring.
With Love Letters to Places celebrating its first year and Anja already working on her next project in Paris, this episode offers listeners inspiration for their own creative practices and reminds us of the transformative power of reflection, solitude, and intentional observation.
Main Topics
Love Letters to Places is a decade-long collection of travel writing exploring memory, loss, grief, love, and new beginnings through the author's journeys across the globe
Solo travel and solitude are powerful catalysts for creative expression and self-discovery, allowing writers to absorb places without distraction
The importance of capturing moments in real-time through journaling, even just quick notes or voice recordings, rather than trying to recreate experiences later
Finding balance between being fully present in a moment and documenting it creatively—recognizing that not everything needs to be written down
Travel writing doesn't require extensive international journeys; inspiration can come from quiet moments in local cafés or familiar spaces
Developing a disciplined writing practice while traveling involves seeking out pockets of time and being 'ruthless' in recording observations, even when tired or surrounded by people
The evolution from personal journal entries to a published book is both a longer journey and surprisingly quick, requiring reflection while moving forward to new projects
Full TranscriptHello, you're listening to Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and a huge huge book f...▼
Hello, you're listening to Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. I'm Hazel Butterfield, and a huge huge book fan, so I love doing this show. Get Booked is all about talking to authors, chatting about anything and everything books related, all the joy, enlightenment, and escape that good books can provide. So sit back and let us entertain you with a different guest each week, sharing who they are, what they do, and what inspires them. Today on the show we have Anja Moyić, She is a Yugoslav Australian dancer, musician, yoga teacher, and writer based pretty much everywhere and nowhere all at once. After a steady unraveling of words commissioned for various performances, publications, and platforms, she now releases her first book, which is what we're going to be talking about today on Get Booked. It's called Love Letters to Places, a decade's worth of memories, dreams, moments, and epiphanies exploring a multitude of themes on a simultaneous journey of inner and outer discovery. She invites you deep into the present moment through past and futures shaped by loss and grief, love and heartbreak, crumbling, rebuilding, healing, inspiration, and the endless possibility for new beginnings. She's also going to do a little reading at the end of the interview as well. I've got so many questions to ask her because I'm a huge fan of traveling, and I actually often travel on my own so that I can absorb a place a little bit more without either the kids going, 'Mama, I want an ice cream,' or, 'Mom, what's a Wi-Fi on the road. Um, similarly, you know, with boyfriends and friends, I guess. And so I do love traveling on my own and sometimes just sitting somewhere remote or in the middle of a really bustling piazza and just taking in what's going on in your own kind of solitude. And I really get this from Love Letters to Places. So it kind of really had me wrapped up in nostalgia, and I think it's going to do the same for you as well. So we're going to be chatting to Anya shortly. And I must say, thank you so much for all the lovely responses I got from all you listeners to last week's show, which was a bit of a try before you buy. There's lots of readings from authors that we've had on the show in the past and a few extras as well with their new books, just to kind of whet your appetite. I hope it inspired quite a few of you to go out and choose your next book. Get Booked is all about opening discussions and offering support by the incredible writing community out there, and support for our writing community out there. Come and join us, get involved, and if you want to catch up on previous shows or maybe listen into last week's selection of various different author read extracts, you can pop on to womensradiostation.com/shows/getbooked, and on our SoundCloud you can also pop on to my website at hazelbutterfield.com and just click on the SoundCloud icon and they're all up there for you. Please feel free to send me book recommendations, ask to come on the show for a chat, maybe you're releasing your own book, I just want to say hi. Why not get in touch? Today's book, Love Letters to Places, by author Anja Moječić, is brought to you by Leschenault Press and the Book Reality Experience, who publish new authors from across the globe. You can check out their latest titles at bookreality.com and subscribe to your Book Reality podcast on Spotify, Acast, or your usual podcast platform, and tune in to their dedicated YouTube channel to hear more interviews with authors. They're always on the lookout for fresh new stories in all genres, and yes, they are open for submissions. Leschenault Press and Book Reality—great stories from great authors. Okey smokey. As mentioned earlier in the show, I love the idea of visiting a place, absorbing a part of that journey, and writing an ode based on how it made you feel and what sparked within you. Personally, when I go on holiday, and as I mentioned, I like to go on holiday on my own, I find random places so inspiring to write anything, whether it's poetry or just your feelings, you know, writing in your diary, anything. I find it hugely inspiring, and I love that Anja Mojic has actually produced Love Letters to Places kind of based on this concept as well. And here to talk to us more about this is the author of Love Letters to Places. Anja, hi! Thank you for joining us. Hello, thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be here. You are very welcome. You do realize that of all the holidays I'm supposed to go on this year, I quite often— my kids go away with their dad for a couple of separate weeks a year, and I kind of try and be sociable. But after reading Love Letters to Places, I'm like, where shall I go on my own? Oh my gosh, yeah. And just read and write. It's a bit like that. It's a bit like that, yeah. Just like, and, and yeah, I guess also, but to make you feel better, this was kind of a decade's worth of travel. So it wasn't, it's not like I'm, you know, on the road all day every day. I mean, sometimes I am, but yeah, this was a bit of a longer journey. So, well, do you know what though, it's, it's nice to go all over the world and experience it, but sometimes I think this book also serves as a good reminder that sometimes we just need to be in our own space to take in our surroundings and see how it makes us feel. And whether you write that down to put on a blog or you write it down on the back of an envelope just to kind of express your feelings. It's completely down to individual feeling at that particular time. And I think it sparks the right amount of creativity and kind of taking on what you've experienced, but at the same time just reminding us to just let our feelings rip sometimes. Yeah, I know. That's how really this book started, was really like the very first starting points were just very old journal entries from, you know, moments where I was traveling alone and I had a lot of time, whether it was on buses or trains or whatever, and in cars. And just, yeah, using it, I guess, as a way of expressing, but also a bit of self-care. And just like, I just— I'm the kind of person where I just always want to remember everything, you know. I just want to like hold on to these memories. So that's really how it started. It was a very simple, simple beginning. To the book. So yeah. Yeah, I love that. That definitely came across. And I think there are different— there's something in the, in the book for, for everybody, whether they've visited the area or they want to, or they wanted to get inspired. But also, it's also reining in that cathartic nature of expressing what's going on in our minds sometimes, even if you're just in the café on the end of the road. It's, you know, anywhere can inspire you. And absolutely, to kind of do it on your own sometimes as well, because it's a lot harder to let the kind of the feelings inside of you come out onto paper when you've got your kids with you, your dog with you, your partner with you, Tom, Dick, Harry, anybody really. Yeah, but I, I do, I have, as I've gotten older and I've begun to travel with, you know, my parents or a partner or a friend or whatever, I do have moments where I just sort of I guess with people that know me really well, I'll just say, I just need to like stop, drop, and go into a corner and like record something into my phone or like write something down. Or just like, because for me, I guess after a while it also becomes a bit of a technical practice, you know. If you know that you have a book coming or you need to write, it sort of, it becomes like a mix of inspiration but also of really like seeking and searching for those moments and then just being ruthless in recording them. And I think that's where a bit of discipline comes in, you know, even when you're tired or when there's people around or you're busy, like taking the time to just do a little bit of writing every day when you're on a trip, or just, you know, as you say, tiny little moments you can get, you can really like juice them like an orange, you know, for detail and for nuance. So yeah, it becomes quite a nice practice. Yeah, yeah. I think it's, it's a good reminder as well that sometimes we need to give ourselves, even if it is just 15 minutes, reflection time and a bit like, I know it sounds, sounds a bit uncouth, but like a brain dump. Whatever's going on in that brain, get it down, you know, get absolutely. And for once as well, don't use your iPad, get out a pen and paper. And oh, I love that, I love it. Yeah, it's, yeah, and I think it's for me, I mean, it is, there were things in this book where I did sort of start with maybe a sentence from 10 years ago in a journal and I created something out of it. But I do find now that often you say, "I'll write it down later," but when you're in that moment, it can be really hard to recreate that exact moment later. So I try to always just remember, you'll thank yourself if you just do it now quickly, even if it's just like, as you say, a dump, like just some words or just some, like, just an idea. It's a really nice practice and a habit to get into, I find, if you are interested in that kind of writing. Yeah, it's quite rejuvenating though as well. I find out, you know, if I need to kind of Ctrl+Alt+Delete before a weekend, if I go sit in a cafe somewhere with pen and paper, or, you know, you can use your iPad, whatever you want to do, or, you know, whatever. Yeah, however you choose to write. I just find it kind of resets me ready for possibly having to be sociable. Yeah, totally. Absolutely. Yeah. And it just enhances, I guess, the way you experience, and everyone has a different way that they like to experience a place or an event. Or, and yeah, for me, I just, I really, I've always loved to just record things this way. But, you know, there's so many other amazing ways— painting and photography and even just being present sometimes. You know, there are times when I say, I'm just not going to write anything, this will just be mine, and I'll just be present, and that's that. Um, yeah, because those experiences, I think, yeah, being present, we so struggle with it these days, and it does take practice. Yeah. Yeah, and also, like, I feel like after this book especially, I found myself getting to a point where you get almost a bit obsessive. It's like, can I— because, you know, once you start, I guess, creating a product, let's say, which a book is, when you start thinking of it as a whole work and a product, it's like you start trying to capitalize on moments, and you have to find that balance of being present and not trying to, yeah, create something out of absolutely everything, because it can, it can unravel. Well, for me anyway, I have to really remind myself to Yeah, to be a bit more choosy or something. Um, let's let things just kind of organically flow as well. Yeah, yeah, I love that. And so the book came out in 2022, is that correct? Yes, so today's actually the book's one-year birthday. It came out on this day last year. Yeah, so this is like a nice coincidence that we're doing this interview, having a little birthday party. Um, well, happy birthday! I hope you're celebrating it. You're in Paris at the moment, aren't you? I'm in Paris at the moment. I'm here working on the next book. I'm very excited. I— yeah, it's, it's, it's wild. This, you know, this all kind of happened. It took a long time, but in a way it happened really quickly as well. And so I'm just like trying to work on the next one, but also reflect on everything this one's been through. And yeah, and then life, you know, happens and it's all, it's all just, yeah, just letting it all unravel, which has been really nice. What's the response been like in the last year then to the book? Do you know what? It— I honestly was so, um, I'm really lucky. The, the pre-order period was incredible. I had such incredible, um, not just, you know, not just with people supporting the book, but also taking the time to write to me with feelings and responses. And it was such a beautiful variety of feedback, and it really fueled the things I want to do for the next book and the way that I allowed myself to process this first book. And since then, it's just been ongoing. And it's been so nice because, you know, you write this book and then you let it go, and it's really, really challenging for you to let it go. It honestly feels like— I mean, I'm not a mother, but I feel like I birthed a child because it was really challenging for me to let go and have it, yeah, have its own life experience in the world. But then noticing how it sort of then, yeah, how it, how it grows, how it ages, how it changes. And interestingly, I actually waited about 6 months after I released it to then record the audiobook, which I did in London in October— oh, November, sorry— with an amazing producer called Ollie Shelton. And when we made it, it was like, it just like rebirthed it again 6 months later, and it had this whole new life. But, you know, then reading it, it was so interesting because I was sometimes, I was like, wow, who is this person? What are these moments? What are these places? Because it was like, now me reading this work that some of it I started writing in like 2018 and earlier. And so it was like, it's really interesting. And I feel like that recording of the audiobook was sort of my last kind of goodbye. Like, I really let you go now. Like, I've spoken you and now it's like, okay, I can move on. It took me a bit of time to sort of detach. Off you go, fly, my dear child. Yes. Yeah. Well, it's quite interesting because, I mean, I've got the physical book, thank you very much. And also, um, I listened on audio as well. And I think it's really nice to have both. Now interestingly, I really wanted to do my yoga practice just re-listening to the poetry because some of it's actually just quite relaxing and very melodic. I love that. Do you know what, I am a yoga teacher and I have recorded online yoga classes and yoga meditation, so I feel like I knew that no matter how much I tried, there'd be a bit of like guided meditation in this reading, and I just went with that because I was like, a lot of these pieces are meditations, you know, they're written meditations or written vignettes. So, you know, and I've heard so many people— I've had a lot of feedback from people say it's kind of like lyrics. I feel like, listen, I'm listening to like spoken word or a performance album. And I love that. I love that it can just be whatever it needs to be. And I think it's a really transmutable work where I think The pieces can really morph into what the listener needs, and I think good writing does that. And I'm really, yeah, I'm really proud of it. So I'm glad that you wanted to do yoga. That's nice. Just listen to them. I've got two that are my favorites, and one of them, it just felt like affirmations. I feel like that. So one of them that I absolutely love, let me just find the title of it. Do, do, do. 30 Lessons on the Road to 30. Oh yeah, I mean, I love this, and I was just listening to them in the car on the way home. And this is when I have my kind of space before I get home to the chaos that is the kids who are absolutely starving because it's been at least 20 minutes since their last main meal. And I was just listening to them, and then I kind of rewound it and did it again and then did it again. I'm just thinking, I've got this really long corridor in my house, and I just kind of think, I kind of want each separate lesson, just going down the corridor to read, as to read them and absorb them as, as you walk through the house. Because the things that we all need to remember, and it's not necessarily things that you need to know before you're 30, they're just things you need to know and that you need to appreciate and drill into yourself. Yeah, and it's funny, that piece actually was so close to not even being in the book because it was really just and I turned 30, I thought, I am just, just to prove to myself that I actually have learned something from life and that I haven't gotten to 30 just like knowing nothing. It's like, yeah, I wrote this little essay and it was really just for me, and then I kind of put it on Instagram. Then I thought, you know what, the book, it got to a point where I was, I was reading it in, in the editorial process, and I thought it's, it gets quite intense and it almost needs something to just sort of take a break, like break it up a little bit, like a little slap in the face or something, just to like a splash of water to just— so this is where this kind of seventh interlude chapter came in, where I just thought I just need something easy to just— because it does have quite an intense buildup. I mean, so yeah, that's how that came about. Um, yeah, so I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was hoping it wouldn't come across like I thought I was super wise or something, but it's just— yeah, just little— you are allowed to— they are wise and you are wise. Don't, don't kind of Numb it down a little bit there. They are great, but sometimes we need a reminder, and this is what books serve as, you know. This is why I love reading, because sometimes we know these things, but we need reminders, and seeing it in black and white and somebody else saying it helps us sometimes believe it more. Yeah, it's useful for me as well. I can just remind myself, you know, of all the things I need to remember as well. So yeah, maybe it was for me too, to just remember things as I, as I continue to age and live life. And yeah, I kind of— I think what I'm going to do is I might type them up again and get them as flashcards and just every now and again just leave them around the house. Or again, do the kind of progression down the corridor with these. In kind— in a way, I kind of want them written in italics on the walls. Just, you know, did you know, like these really cool bathrooms where they kind of Weirdly, someone decides they want a bathroom to be inspiring and they have things up. Yeah, like that. You know what, you, you've given me a really great business idea. I might put that on a little Post-it and we'll, we'll see what we can come up with. You're welcome, you're welcome. But I'd love to know, what is your favorite poem? Do you have a favorite? I know that's a bit like saying, oh my gosh, child. Yeah. Oh my gosh, we all have. Um, yeah, do you know There is a piece that I really, I feel like was the— actually, it's in chapter 10, and it's a piece that was inspired by Portugal. And I actually think it was the first piece I wrote where I actually went, because I had all these inklings that I wanted to write a book, and I had all these different— a million journals and a million ideas and all these things. And then I wrote this piece, and I went on this trip, and I went, oh my gosh, this is a book. Like, it's going to write itself. And from that moment, it really all just unraveled. Um, but it's number 10. It's Saudade. It's the piece that's inspired by Portugal. On page— let me find it. I should know this, shouldn't I? On page 150. And it's a longer piece, and I really, I really enjoyed, um, in the book there are a few kind of longer sort of, um, short story type pieces. And it's funny, I actually got so much feedback simultaneously about this one piece, and then it sort of just became my favorite. Um, yeah, I really love it. I feel like This is my first time in Portugal, and it was a really spontaneous trip. And I think this is why, um, I've ended up traveling so much in my life, because I come from this background in the performing arts, and it just happened to be like because of work at the start. It sort of was just coincidental. So I was in Portugal very spontaneously doing a little job, and I just had this strange moment that I think you have when you really allow yourself to be present and open, where I just thought to myself, I feel like I've been here before. I'm having some sort of weird past life regression where I've been here before. I know this place. I feel this intense nostalgia, this like melancholia. And yeah, that's how this piece was born, and I really love it a lot. And it was sort of the— not just the impetus for this first book, but it kind of led me to what I'm now exploring with my second book, which will be more of this longer form. So kind of lyrical essay and poetic travelogue and this kind of genre. So I'm really excited to deepen that practice for book 2. And yeah, well, I've got— I mean, I always like to ask somebody for their kind of favorite part of a book, but yet myself, I couldn't pin it down to one. So there was a second one that I loved as well. One of those ones again that I kind of rewound and listened to it again. Let me just find it. There we go. Um, Sundays are for lingering. Oh yes, I love this one too. Yeah, this is an interesting one because I actually spent about 2 months in Vienna. So sometimes I say to myself, I sort of lived there, because I feel like 2 months is long enough to build a kind of routine in a place. And it was when I first moved to Europe from Sydney when I was 22, and I did a dance festival for 2 months in Vienna. And, um, it was during the summer of like 2013 or something. And yeah, I remember it was kind of the first time I'd ever really lived out of home, and it was— I feel like this piece was really about just the simplicity, you know, because in places like Austria and Germany, Sundays are really sacred. Everything is closed except you go to church, you're with your family, like it's really— and I remember that year it was this intense heat wave. And yeah, Sunday was my only day off at the time. And I think that piece was just a real— just trying to remember that beautiful independent simplicity that I had for the first time in my life, in my adult life. And yeah, it was one of the pieces actually, there were a few that I really, really wanted to write a piece dedicated to these places, but I had very, very old notes and very min— like a lot of minimal information about my memory from the place. Which is where I think creative license came in and creativity and a bit of fiction. It's funny, you know, there's a note at the start that says this work, this piece is a work of fiction, but it's funny because I think it's, it's sort of both. It's like a memoir of moments, but it's also a little bit fictional and it's a little bit colored in and it's, yeah, I don't know, it's like a nice mix of things. So yeah, that's the thing though, isn't it? It's a reminder even to the readers or the listeners that life doesn't have to be one particular thing. It can be a mixture of everything. And also you can take what you want. Some, some people quite often decipher different meanings from poetry, and I love that. Absolutely. It's open to subjectivity. And also, I guess that was the beautiful thing for me because I'm not, you know, I went to university and I did an honors degree, so I know how to write, but I did not study particular, like, specifically writing. I studied music and dance. And so for me it was beautiful because in that way I was a little bit self-taught, as in my experience with writing poetry just comes from reading and being immersed in the world of it. But I felt, because I think this was a blessing because I didn't do this degree, I didn't feel like I had to really follow any rules. I was very— and I think it's interesting because sometimes people ask me like, you know, what about the form of this and what about the rules of this? And I say, honestly, if you want to talk about this in terms of form, the only form there is that it's choreographic. You know, I took my experience from choreography and from dance and sort of choreographed things on the page. But really, like, I felt very free to break rules and to make up rules. And yeah, I know that in kind of more academic— the academic poetic world, this probably wouldn't sit right. But yeah, I just feel like there's already so much out there, why not just do something that's unique to you? And just do something that, that resonates. So yeah, this was really fun. I think it's a huge component of mental health, mental well-being, and people feeling comfortable and fitting in where people think that they have to follow rules and they have to do things in a particular way, and they get really conflicted when what they're thinking or what they want to do is not aligned with certain ridiculously constructed rules. So I think the more people just do things, you know, a book doesn't have to be a particular genre, you know, poetry doesn't have to be a particular genre, um, and neither does the latest box set on Netflix. Things are more outside the box, and I think the more that we realize that that is accepted more, the happier people will be that they, they don't have to stay in some aforementioned box that was created by people hundreds of years ago. Absolutely. And, you know, I really spent a good 10 years in this really incredibly competitive performing arts world that in many ways is so detrimental to mental health. You know, it's this like constant proving yourself, fitting in, um, you know, like the competitiveness of it, just it's really, really, really challenging actually on your mental resilience. And I think I realized as I got older that actually, like, it's— I do my best work when I'm completely free, when I don't allow people to box me in. And that doesn't mean that there's not discipline there, and it doesn't mean that there's not rigor in the work. It just means that I don't— because, you know, everything we put on others or on ourselves, it's all just conditioning. It's not really the truth of anything. It's conditioning and it's ego. And so I thought, why would I let people who don't really know me or who might have different agendas, why would I let them dictate how I'm gonna create art to share, you know, because that's all it really is. It's just to share with people. And if, you know, if you don't resonate with it, we're so lucky there's so much to choose from in the world. You have so much art that you can find and enjoy. And yeah, so I think that really was very freeing for me. It made this experience very cathartic and freeing. And yeah, I'm really happy I, I went with my own, my own way of doing things. So Me too. Me too. Actually, I just had flashed into my brain something that I saw on Instagram the other day, which I think is quite relevant to what we're talking about. And it just said something really simple that struck me and it said, don't set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Or even, you know, don't— if you look at that from a flipped angle, it's like you don't need to diminish your light to make other people feel comfortable. It's like, you know, fire is shareable also in a way, you know. Yeah. No, I love that. So you were saying that you've started on the next book. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. Do you know what? It's so funny because when I really finally just allowed myself to sink deep into this process, all of these ideas came. It's just like they were just— it was like a waterfall pouring through me. And I feel like when you can I mean, you can never fully separate yourself from ego, but when you can put it aside, you feel that you're so open and you're just a vessel for something bigger than you, and it's just flowing and flowing and flowing. And this is such a nice place to be. And so I actually got the idea for the second book before I had even finished the first one, and I sort of just— so I started— I do this sometimes where I get ahead of myself, and so I was like, I had to really rein myself in and just get to the task at hand. Um, but also then I found that actually what I thought the second book was going to be, it's going to be something completely different. And I think that's the beauty of this process. I've learned as well, that like I just no longer get attached to things. You know, you can write something and be so attached to it, but you zoom out and you see what the work as a whole actually needs, and it becomes so easy to just— you know, I never delete things. I always put things aside. I've got like a million folders in my laptop because things always come back to you when you need them. You know, you might write something and it's not right for this piece, but in a year you'll need it for something else, and you'll be like, oh, I've already written that. It was just waiting its turn. You know, so I'm really, um, right now I'm in like a really deep research and development phase, I guess I could say. Um, and I'm just being really— I'm kind of reparenting myself a little bit. I'm kind of like taking care of my inner child and just letting her go and do what she needs to do and not being mean to myself, not being too strict, not being too— you know, just letting myself really be free. So is it good? Very excited. Yeah, so I think I will actually explore some of these longer form of forms of writing. So it'll still be poetic because that's just how I am, a little bit poetic and a little bit dramatic. It's just my nature. But yeah, I think it will be— I'm really, really interested in the short story form right now, so I'm, I'm reading a lot of short stories, um, a lot of wonderful authors. And so I think it'll be a combination of sort of prose, verse, short story, longer vignettes, travelogues, personal essays, lyrical essays, that kind of vibe. So yeah, yeah, I'm very excited. Me too. Well, I need to remind our listeners that they can pop on to AnjaMojic.com, which obviously I'm— I've supposedly nailed the pronunciation down, but that doesn't help people find the website, does it? Um, no, but we can maybe link it in the show notes, or— well, Anja, A-N-J-A, and that's it, Mujic is M-U-J-I-C.com. So there's various bits, correct? It's all about you. So I mean, you do everything, you know, dancer, musician, yoga teacher, writer, you know, all of the things. But there's, there's various— do you still do online yoga classes, or are they behind? Yeah. Yeah, I did. You know, I really like— I guess this is after I realized I was no longer going to let anyone box me in. I guess I just let myself go through these creative— I just keep adding creative tools to my toolbox, and I just kind of do what I feel like, really. And it's very liberating. It's like, I love that. I love that. And yeah, I often read, write, and read poetry for yoga as well, specific to my classes. Um, I teach, you know, it's not so traditional. I include a lot of um, just kind of creative movement based on my, my dance practice. And yeah, I sort of just try to bring it all together and mix it all in. And yeah, it's nice. Brilliant. Now, I always ask my guests on Get Booked for 3 top tips on trying to achieve a good level of well-being. And, you know, being a dancer, writer, musician, and yoga teacher, I think asking for 3 tips is a bit like saying, right, well, I'm going to have to narrow it down from 36, uh, because I, I, yeah, I think for me, I definitely, um, I think this is a bit— first of all, I'll just say it's so individual to people, and it's— I personally have loved trial and error with things that work for me and also changing them up based on how my life has changed. But for me, It's for me, it's the discipline of a morning routine, which I really try to implement some sort of morning moment to myself, even if I'm traveling, even if, you know, because it's so easy to like betray yourself because there's all these external things that you need to do. But if I can just sit with myself in the morning and even do like 3 minutes of meditation or write one page in my journal or have my tea and just have a quiet morning, I think that's probably my biggest practice is just trying to be really disciplined about that. The second thing is I'm really strict with my bedtime because I've noticed as I get older, it's just non-negotiable for me to just sleep a good, ideally, 8, 9, 10 hours. So I'm really— I try to be strict with myself, and I fail a lot with Netflix, but I try to go to bed at a good hour and really sleep well. Um, and for me, it's also I guess this is coming from my background, but I have to move my body every day, even if I'm in a really deep writing period or I'm traveling, even if it's just like a 5-minute dance party in the living room. For me, it's really non-negotiable. Um, there's just little things, and I think that for me, the trick is always keeping those little promises to myself, not betraying myself just because something external seems more important. But again, I'm coming from a very privileged place where I don't have children, I don't have a husband or a dog, so I have, you know, I have, I have my time and I have I understand that this can be hard for people, so I definitely recognize my privilege also. But there's a place for everybody to get involved with that. I mean, whenever I do yoga, I just have the dog kind of trying to lick my ears as I'm doing it. Exactly. She joins in, she's like, oh my God, I can do the downward dog! Yeah, well, you know, kids love dancing. You just pull the kids into the kitchen and have a little dance-off, and you're all, you know, I don't know, you just find a way to squeeze it in somehow. So, well, I know, I mean, I'm quite lucky because both my children are now teenagers and they're boys, so if they try and interrupt my yoga session or any kind of me time, if they're just sitting there hovering around me, I say, right, I want us to start talking about periods, and I'll just go bye, and they walk off and they leave me alone. It's brilliant. It's the best thing I can give to anyone. Yeah, love that. Uh, yeah, I'm addicted. I'm an interesting mother. Um, wow. Now I love that because again, there's so many people say, oh, I don't have time, I don't have 5 minutes in the morning, I don't have 10 minutes in the evening to do some movement. But if you don't give yourself that time, you're going to be paying for it somewhere else. Yeah. And do you know, there's this beautiful saying that I love so much and I use it a lot. And it's, you know, there's a dance style called Gaga and it originated in Israel and it's an improvisation technique. And I love it because everybody can do it. There's, you know, Gaga for professional dancers, but there's also Gaga People classes, they're called. And this is just for everybody, no matter their experience level. And they have this beautiful cue that they use in the class and they say, move with a sense of plenty of time. So even if you don't have time, if you bring the sense of plenty of time into your body or your breath, it literally— I feel like time becomes elastic and you realize that actually, oh, it's so good. It's been a game changer for me. I always use this now. I completely understand that because sometimes when I feel like I'm squeezing something in, I can feel it in my gut and I can feel it in my muscles and it's not doing me any good. And again, you've just got to practice. Yeah. So because, you know, time will keep ticking on regardless. So do you resist it or do you try to just lean into it? And I think just having a bit of grace with yourself as well. Every day is different and you just do your best in every moment. That's all you can ask of yourself. And yeah, yeah. Give yourself a break. And also, do you know what? If you really genuinely don't have time one day, that's fine. Just really— Yeah, it's not the end of the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, um, so something else I like to ask all my guests here on Get Booked is for somebody that they admire in the public eye. Yes, I've been thinking, I was thinking about this one. It's so hard because I think I admire so many people. It's really hard for me to like nail one down, but I, I try to just really follow because, you know, I'm on Instagram a lot and I'm not ashamed to say it. I love Instagram. I know some people don't love it, I spend a lot of time on there, so I try to really fill my, my, my visual eye with people who, yeah, are just kind of doing things their own way in their own time, but who really have integrity, you know, who are really honest with themselves and with others, who have integrity, who acknowledge things as they are, and who just— yeah, I mean, I think it's easy to say I don't care what people think, but I think there's a way to sort of really embody that, you know, and to admit that Actually, it is really hurtful when you notice yourself changing or elevating and you notice that people start treating you differently or reacting to you differently. But I think just allowing yourself to feel all of the different colors of life and put that into your work and keep staying true to yourself. Those are the people that I really admire. I know I haven't given you someone specific, but, um, yeah, no, but I, this is, this is why I asked the question though, because so many people are on, you know, they get addicted to scrolling through TikTok, Instagram, and you come away just thinking, why can't— why don't I ever put the time in to make my hair and makeup look that perfect? Why am I not out as much as that person? Which is all nonsense. The majority of it is constructed nonsense. So I understand what you're saying about when it's in— when it looks like there's, there's people with integrity. Well, when there are people with integrity, because you come away from social media feeling good about yourself rather than feeling less than. So that's why I asked the question, because I think sometimes we need to remember that we need to watch what it is we're consuming. Absolutely. Yeah. Because, you know, I feel like it's— you have to be really mindful. I'm really mindful when I'm trying in a creative period or when I'm meeting deadlines or whatever, that I'm not consuming too much, that I don't, you know, accidentally take too much inspiration from someone, or I don't you know, I'm really pure in my own intention, and so I'm not numbing my brain somehow with mindless scrolling. Although I do love a mindless scroll sometimes, I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes it's good. Yeah, it is good for you. Sometimes you just need to zone out, and it does help you zone out. And I think there's a time and a place, and there's a purpose for many, many things out there, and to give yourself a little bit of a break. But yeah, no, I love it. Do you know what, I thoroughly love chatting to you today, and I can't wait to talk to you about the next book when complete it and get it published. Yeah. And thank you so much for talking to us about love letters to places, and I can't wait to book my next holiday on my own and go, I'm just gonna do a bit of Anja Moječić and go out there. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure. And yeah, thank you. Thank you for joining us on Get Lit, the women's and men's radio station. Pages turn and petals slip, like whispers from confinement. Preserved memories of a summer afternoon spent wearing my favourite denim A-line to the bone. On grass soft and warm under the palm and hip that kept me upright. Absent-mindedly taunting that coveted fourth clover leaf as the late summer breeze kissed my cheeks and brushed my eyelids. Confident in and comforted by the nowhere else I had to be. Funny things, memories, with their power to keep us enslaved in the past.— or propel us, unnecessarily armed into every possible future. To be labeled, filed away, and relived incessantly until we finally realize that they don't even begin to scratch the surface of our true definition. That the only thing that can is how fully we sink, breath, blood, flesh and bone, into the possibility of right now. I tore and tossed that little leaf like a glove slap in the face challenge to destiny. A vow renewed to look back on in 10 years' time, that I'd always be in charge of writing my own. If only I knew then what I know now. Still, there's something peaceful about dehydrated reminiscence, almost like Lake Louise like a cup of blue frozen yoghurt, getting smaller and smaller. Tiny flowers sprayed on purple mountains choking on people. Straight-line trees like you've never seen, a wilderness wilder than your wildest dreams. Walked all day, step by step, All 3,000 meters up, and I can't remember what was heavier, my pack or my heart, or all 6 glaciers slowly falling apart at our hands, one by one. Saw myself in every creature, in every echo of every feeling I'd ever felt, and every tear these eyes have shed that fell again as blisters bled. We reached an end after what seemed forever, head to toe in dust and ember, gasping for breath, desperate for slumber. Sordid goodbye happened under cover of lies. The beginning, a repeat offense. The start of healing, a constant end. Just waiting for us to let it hurt. And when we did, boy did it. Nights my cold feet roamed a warm red earth. I felt the heat rise through my bones and memory as I spun wildly, locks long, eyes soft, limbs clad in white. Sent red sand flying through an expansive blue hour sky. The sun said there was no such thing as time in its absence, and I took up space as if I were alone and unafraid. So it had to have been a memory, or a dream, of a place I haven't yet found. Of one I haven't yet been. That was an extract from today's book, Love Letters to Places, a poetry collection read by today's guest and the author of said book, Anja Moyić, who is a Yugoslav-Australian dancer, musician, yoga teacher, and writer. And it turns out, really good guest as Well, I thoroughly enjoyed chatting to her today, and all the best of luck for the next book. As a quick reminder, you can pop onto her website at anyamoyich.com to find out more about her. Love Letters to Places, a poetry collection, is published through the Leschenault Press and the Book Reality Experience, who publish new authors from across the globe. Check out their latest titles at bookreality.com and subscribe to their Book Realities podcast on Spotify, Acast, or your usual podcast platform, and tune into their dedicated YouTube channel for more interviews with authors. They are always on the lookout for fresh new stories in all genres, and they are open for submissions, all you budding writers listening in right now. Les Journal Press and Book Reality, great stories from great authors. I'm Hazel Butterfield and you're listening to Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. Catch me here on Women's Radio Station every day of the week at 5 PM and on Tuesdays at 4 PM on Men's Radio Station, and you can catch up on previous shows at womensradiostation.com/shows. Www.writerspod.co.uk/shows/getbooked and on our SoundCloud. I love doing this show, just opening discussions and offering support via the incredible writing community out there. Come and join us, get involved. And towards the end of today's show, I'm going to give a little bit of a sneaky peek on a previous show, and if you want to then go on to SoundCloud to listen to the whole thing, please feel free to do so. Next week on the show, I'm going to be interviewing the author Tim Hind, who has written In the Best Interests, Pick a Packet or Two, and 20/20 Hindsight. I'm currently working my way through them this week. Definitely not one to miss. Thank you so much for joining me for today's Get Booked. And as promised, we now have a little bit of a flashback to last summer where we interviewed Kathleen Quinlan about her book The Inner Champion. I hope you enjoy this, and if you want to hear the full show, pop on to our SoundCloud. Now it's that time of Get Booked to chat to today's guest about searching out our inner champion. The Inner Champion by Kathleen Crinlan, a 7-week practical guide to peace Happiness and Miracles is about going back to our roots, who we were before life happened and the world told us otherwise, about reconditioning what we think we have learned that is stopping us being what we can be and actually what we need to be, to harness that innate power we do have that is or can be buried quite deep down through whatever trauma or life lessons, experiences have affected our current understanding of ourself. This book looks to reconfigure what we think we deserve, stripping back what life, our mistakes, and society has told us. It is delivered to us in daily, easily achievable steps with an associated meditation that can utilize You can utilize it as much of your time as you wish to and what is available to you. It's perfectly put to us. I thoroughly enjoyed working my way through it. Kathleen, hi, thank you for joining us on Get Booked. Oh, Hazel, hello. It's wonderful to talk with you. Yeah, you too. Now, I've been working through this book, and, um, am I right in thinking that the book's main aim is to break down learned negative behavior and get back to a better us? Yes, you know, um, the, the inner, the inner self is a, is a powerful reality that most people are, uh, are, are simply unknown to. We get so, uh, we get so intensely involved with the demands of our daily life. Yeah, that we really don't, we really don't pay attention to or recognize the presence of this great self that we— that's within us, the true self that we are. Um, that self is the eternal limited part of us that we, that we have before we come into the physical world. It's the true self that we are, um, a pure state of limitless loving power that is what we were created to be. But we step away from that power when we come into the physical world and As you said so beautifully, you begin to accept society's, uh, um, judgments about what you are, and certainly, uh, take on the opinions of those around you as you grow up. And essentially, the personality becomes deeply cluttered with and distorted because of ideas about itself that have nothing to do with what we really are. See, I read quite a similar concept of a book, but also not as, as spiritual as, um, your book, The Inner Champion. And I don't know whether you've come across it, but I'd love you to go and research it. It's called Be More Kid, and it's written by, um, a couple of psychologists and a radio host. And it's trying to get us back to our roots, who we were and what we wanted to be before the world and adulthood kind of got in the way. And it's trying to to get us to harness the attitude and the outlook we had towards life when we were kids, you know, that we were invincible and that we could be anything. You know, if you wanted to be an astronaut, you know, you wore the outfit and you were convinced you were going to be an astronaut. And then as life happens, we think we've got limitations, and yeah, we have limitations imposed by ourselves and imposed by people who sometimes we shouldn't even have respect for their opinions. Yes, right. Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm not familiar with that book, but certainly when we are very, very young, we still carry with us the knowledge of where we came from, the power, the innocence, particularly the joy and the creative freedom that, that we experience and we still know about when we're very, very young. It's typical with what you see in young children, and it's something that gets educated out of us. Essentially what happens is that we, we come into the physical world because we wanted to see what it would be like to be different from the nature of our own free, creative, powerful, loving being. And so we come in when we're born, and in the words of Wordsworth, we come in trailing clouds of glory, you know, which is the remembrance of the love that we are and the freedom and the, and the extraordinary joyous abilities that we have at that level. But as you're saying, once we, um, once we, we are born into a family, we begin to, um, uh, we're looking for the love that we remembered and the freedom that we have, but, uh, we're seeking that love from, uh, from parents who have their own ideas about what we should be. And we, we accept, uh, their limitations and their, uh, the deep sense of, um, uh, separation that they've carried into their own experience. And so we begin to form our personality around, uh, the expectations and the limits of those who are, you know, in our family and, and who are responsible for, uh, for helping us grow and develop. And that becomes then, um, a powerful beliefs that actually is like a, like a computer program. It's like a, a template that becomes very, very intransigent and distorted relative to what we actually are. And that, um, that template sits between the inner self, which is the energy that forms our, our bodies and our, our experience, and our physical experience. And we, uh, as we, as we grow up, um, we, we incorporate the experiences that we have, like loading data into a computer program. And out of that data, then we develop ideas that become very, very powerful beliefs and determinants. Um, and so our experience gets created because the inner self flows through those ideas that we have and that are very distorted, and we get an experience that's, uh, that's exactly what's held in that template. And so the inner self, uh, becomes our champion in the sense that it's an advocate for us to, to learn and become aware of its presence and to let that presence then undo the distortions, the limitations, the, um, the fears and the judgments that we've accumulated throughout our life and replace that with the truth about ourselves, which is that we are worthy of everything and we have a right to a life that's filled with happiness and authority and, uh, peace. And, uh, it's quite different from the one that we have come to believe is real on this level. Well, it's about harnessing a positive mental attitude as well, because whether it is unwittingly or not, you know, I know my parents did it, I know that I sometimes done it with my children, that we, we sometimes project things that we've learned ourselves onto other people, or maybe we've been disappointed in our life and we want to protect our own children from feeling the same disappointment. And so it's just, it's so hard to sometimes decipher What is protecting the people you love and what is teaching them limitations? It's about, you know, we need to reconfigure what we think is right. And I think especially in the last few years, I think we've predominantly been focusing on mental health and the power of the language we use towards ourselves. I mean, I know I have— I've read some fantastic books on the language we use, not just to ourselves, but to other people as well. And, you know, When my children, they, you know, they just, they, they say things like, oh, I'm rubbish at football, I can't, I can't pass, I can't do this, I'm not fast enough. And I just say, yet. You might not be fast enough yet, but that's, that's not the end of the story. You can do anything you want to do, but you've got to put the effort in, you know. And I think language is so powerful and You know, as you talk about in The Inner Champion, there is nobody else on the planet we will speak more to than ourselves, and we need to make sure we're saying the right things to ourselves. Yes, exactly, exactly. And in, in reality, the inner self as our champion, as the part of us that wants to return us to what we actually are, it speaks to us and is guiding us all the time, but its voice is compassionate and loving. And, uh, most of us choose instead, as you're suggesting, to listen to the ego, you know, that's telling us, uh, all the time that, uh, you know, we're not as good as we think we are, and we're not going to be able to achieve what we want in our life, and we have no right to be happy, and we need to pay attention to the, the chaos around us because that is, uh, that demands our attention, and, uh, it's real. And the voice of inner self, uh, in contrast, is, uh, is not what we should be paying attention to. Well, I suppose the chaos around us— that is why I'm assuming you integrate so much meditation into your practice, because that quietens the noise and helps us actually listen to what we're trying to say to ourselves. And, and what you were just saying then, is that what you mean by splitting away from the inner self. Splitting away from the inner self, yes. Uh, I mean, what— that's exactly what happens when we, uh, when we're born in the physical world. We have stepped away from the reality, uh, that we are the love and the power and the creative freedom that we are, and we adopt the limitations and the, uh, the sense of failure and the fear and the belief in chaos that is so typical for, for what our experience is right now. And so meditation is very, very important, either in the way that I have described it and used it in my book, which can be short, you know, and simple but powerful, or, you know, more lengthy opportunities when we have to really step back and quiet ourselves and perhaps listen to music and let the inner self bring us back from the battleground, so to speak, and the distortions that we carry about ourselves, and let it educate, reeducate us to the nurturing and the power and the support that we have within us that is very, very easy to get distracted from and not pay attention to.
