Get Booked – Ian Brown Albert, Upside Down 260421

Hello, I'm Hazel Butterfield and you're listening to Get Booked for women's and men's radio station. Here on Get Booked, we love talking to authors about their new releases, going into detail about the topics covered and topic inspiration, the mental health and well-being elements, and giving you the extra special insight into a different book and the author each week. And, and next up, we have an absolute treat in store for you. Albert the Tortoise will at least his owner and literary conduit, Ian Brown, a former journalist turned TV writer, producer of 30 years, who has written his first children's book that encapsulates charm, teamwork, and never underestimating anyone's contribution in society. My son and I loved this story, and I'm sure you will too. Let's find out more. Hi Ian, how are you? I'm very well, uh, nice to speak to you, Hazel. Thank you for joining us on the show. I have been so excited to chat to you. Um, obviously, I take it Albert's not going to be making an appearance because he's, um, he doesn't speak that much, does he? Well, as you say, I am his conduit, so every now and then I'll, I'll feel the vibes, you know, and it might be something he might want to say. Um, that's certainly the case on his social— he has like all superstars these days, he has his own social media. So he's on Twitter and he's on Facebook, where his following just astounds me, I have to say. But I sort of, as Albert, I give rather cheeky answers sometimes to people or make rather cheeky comments, because he's a bit of a cheeky character. And so in that sense, he does speak, but here and now, possibly not, as you say. My, my beagle's the same, to be honest. She is so chatty on social media, and she's actually quite belittling to me on Instagram. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous, but she's funny. How rude. I know, I know. Animals these days, eh? But I think you'll find most people prefer to actually follow and interact with an animal than a human being on social media. So what does that say? About us as a human race. I know, I slave away with my own accounts and it's a brick wall really, but Tortoise says something and it's just, you know, 20,000 likes or something. It's so much more profound, but to be fair, I mean, it's obviously, it's nice to have a slightly different animal on social media, I mean, because dogs are 10 a penny these days. That's true, that's true. Well, that was partly the thinking behind the book, and also partly that he was totally the inspiration. You know, it was— I should say, I've tried for many years to try and get a book away in different forms, you know, adult books, children's books, whatever, novels, sadly with no success. And then I started to write more for very young children, therefore more like picture books, trying out a few ideas. And I'm sure we'll come on to this,. But then I got working with a particular person who's a great talent, artist, illustrator, animation director. And what happens in the book, which is that Albert the tortoise ends up, or starts off upside down, he's had a little accident. That does generally happen to tortoises, and it does generally happen to our Albert. Every now and then he'll overstretch himself or whatever, and he'll just topple over. It's not great for tortoises, I have to say. And the idea is that you must put them back the right way round as gently as possible, as quickly as possible. But I thought, well, what if the humans were missing at that time? He's, you know, because the character is a pet tortoise. What if the humans were missing? What if all the little garden creatures came to his aid? What might happen? And that was sort of the spur for it, really. I thought it was so incredibly sweet. I read it with my son, and you know what, he absolutely loved the book, but the facts at the end I mean, they're so endearing. You forget just how prehistoric and monumental tortoises are. I mean, some of them can grow— I can get as old as 160 years old. Well, yeah, one like Albert is, um, what they call a Greek or Mediterranean spur-thigh. I enter a whole dangerous territory now because, um, there are some sort of very keen tortoise people out there and experts, and I, I'm not an expert on tortoises, I have to say. But as far as I'm aware, Albert is a Mediterranean or Greek spur-thigh, probably originally from North Africa, um, and, uh, he's quite a petite tortoise actually. But obviously, you know, that we all know about the massive ones, the Galápagos ones and the Aldabra ones, the giant tortoises. But yeah, but even— and they live to a huge age. The oldest living tortoise as we speak is also the oldest living land animal. And that's an animal called Jonathan, who's a Galápagos tortoise, I think. And he is, uh, no, sorry, he's a type of aldabra. I take that back. And, um, he is 189, I think, at the moment. Whoa. It's like— and they— so he predates Queen Vic— I think Queen Victoria and everything. I mean, it's just incredible to think of that. And a tortoise just like Albert survived in the UK to be about 160. Yeah, you're right. And now our Albert, we think, people tell us, could be about 80. Our family's had him for more than 50 years. My wife, as a little girl, found him. And it's a rather sad story, and you mustn't do this to a tortoise, but people used to do it back then, more than 50 years ago. But someone had drilled a little hole in the edge of his shell and had tethered him to a garage door in a block of garages behind where my wife then lived with her family. And they thought it was— as you would when you come across a tortoise first time— you thought it was a rock or a stone, a big stone or something. And there was this tortoise, and they put up little notices on the lampposts and all that, anyone know this tortoise. No one claimed it. It obviously had been abandoned, but with the intention that it would be found, I think. Luckily, and they did find it and they took it in and here we are, you know. But the thing you've got to bear in mind is the longevity, you know, because he's now on his second generation of ownership in that we took him on about 12 years ago and he could well outlive us by some time. So we're already briefing younger members of the family who— or testing them out to see who might be interested in it. Well, it's more of a commitment than marriage, isn't it? It's— well, yes, you could say that. There's no— it's not an easy divorce, I have to say, because you just look at his little face and you wouldn't want to do that to him. But he— but you have to bear it in mind, is you have to think about, as we do now with all our online presence and everything, you know, passing on our passwords to loved ones so they can get into our Facebook and heaven knows what. You have to think about the legacy if you take on a tortoise as a pet. Yeah, I mean, it's quite incredible. I mean, I didn't actually realize that they could last that long. And I, I think when we first started chatting, um, I told you that when I was younger, my mum's best friend Beverly had a tortoise, and I was so in love that they could just sit there and kind of chill with a cup of tea and a bottle of Chardonnay while I'd just lay on the floor constantly chatting to this tortoise. They're good listeners. They are. Do you know what? They don't talk back either, and I think that's possibly why I liked it so much. Okay, but I would just sit there with a little— I think it was like a cabbage leaf I was always given or something like that. I can't remember, it was something like that. And I'd just sit there and chat for ages and kind of feed it, and I was like, yeah, this is my best friend. Well, I never, I never thought I would become so sort of captivated and fascinated by a tortoise. Um, to be honest, I'm probably more a cat person, uh, in that, you know, as a youngster and my family, we just always had cats and kind of get along with, kind of understand cats, you know, in that they're totally selfish and, uh, yeah, rude, everything that comes to cats. Yeah, but I love cats. Anyway, we took on Albert, uh, as I said, about 12 years ago or so, and more and more every day he's just fascinating, you know. And then you've got the whole, you know, the whole issue of winter where he will go to sleep for the whole of winter, you know. He's He sort of wakes up after about 5 months of sleep. You know, it's incredible. It's just— I do like it that he's timed it well, that he's releasing his book in time with coming out of hibernation. And you know, you know, when you just kind of wake up from a long nap and you just need to come around a little bit, and he's timed it beautifully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally. I mean, I have to say that is slightly deliberate. The timing is slightly deliberate. The hope was that he would emerge, and he has emerged in good time to do all his publicity commitments and such like. Now this is what I wanted to ask, is he going to be attending some publishing events? Well, to be honest, I don't know that he will. Probably the easiest thing is to do little videos with him. I'm not a great— I can see pictures of Alfred going, "Sigh." He's very filmogenic. He's a great friend of the video camera and such like. He's quite a poser, I have to say. You know what, they've got the beaks to pout though. Absolutely, they've got everything. He's got all the looks and everything. He has a slightly comical walk, dare I say. And so he's great, and he will perform, you know, not perform, but he does perform for the camera, you know, he turns it on a bit for the camera. So we're thrilled. So probably little videos. I'm not a great fan of bundling an animal into a box and traveling him a long way, and you know, all the problems that that can cause. And he's of a certain age now, and it's not probably natural for that to happen to him. He's not been brought up doing that, as it were. So I'm not sure that he would— maybe something a bit closer to home, we might take him along to something, you know, local library or something like that. Great. If that encourages people to get into books. Well, I think now this listener is saying, right, where's local to you? Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, the other thing is that people don't realize about tortoises is how sort of steady and far they will go. Albert doesn't do it so much now, but when he was a youngster or much younger, he was always escaping. You know, they will tunnel, they will climb.— you have to think about all this if you're thinking about a tortoise for a pet. You know, they will get out, they will bury themselves and vanish, apparently, you know, it would appear, and then they may just suddenly reappear, or they may have gone, you know, they may have got through to next door or wherever. They are an incredible sort of survival bundle, really. They're incredible. Well, they are prehistoric, they are, as you actually say in the book, you know, modern-day dinosaurs. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, it's really his turtle cousins. It's turtles really that go back, uh, something like 250 million years. So they predate, uh, mammals, lizards, crocodiles, and the dinosaurs themselves. It's, it's, it's mind-blowing really to think about it. And then, sorry, and then the tortoises, as they are a bit more like today, and they all appeared about 50 to 60 million years ago. Which is still quite a long time. Well, it's a great advert for the vegan community, isn't it? There's something to be said for it. Now, I would say that some of Albert's cousins do eat a bit of meat. They will eat sort of worms and slugs and things like that they come across. But Albert certainly is sort of— strictly speaking, he would be grasses. He should mainly eat leaves, particularly leaves. Salad leaves, and he's rather partial to a dandelion, I have to say. Any burdock or just dandelion? No, just the dandelion he goes for. And then he would have as a treat something like a little bit of strawberry or a little bit of grated carrot, something like that, bit of a treat, you know. He'd be perfect for Wimbledon, really. I don't know, I'm not so sure he's going to be able to move quickly enough. No, I mean to get to have some strawberries, you know, not actually to be on Centre Court. He'd be chomping on the grass of Centre Court. Oh yeah, well, they wouldn't like that either. He'd be a great little buddy to watch with though. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And another important fact about tortoises is that they have visited the moon. They have. The Russians took them there, two Russian steppe tortoises, or steppa, you know, as they write it, steppe tortoises, went up and circled the moon and came back. It was, I think it was called the Zond 5 mission. People can Google that or look it up. And yeah, incredible. Quite a few little creatures went up in that mission, and two tortoises were among them, and they came back and were apparently unharmed by space travel. Spaceflight. Well, they've got a tough shell, haven't they? They have, they have. They, as I say, you know, as I said, they're amazing survivors, you know. It's, um, they were, they were sort of a lesson on so many levels, you know, for life, if you like, you know, sort of be, go steady, persevere, you know, you don't have to rush at things. The hare and the tortoise. Yeah, no, I mean, though, you know, there's just a lot, you know, although they don't speak much, there's a lot to learn from them. You know, like, I mean, obviously other, other nations such as Japan and China revere tortoises and turtles. You know, they're, um, you know, if you're people who remember sort of the popular use, uh, Kung Fu Panda, you know, the wise old Oogway, um, was the Zen master kind of thing of kung fu. And it's very true, you know, and nations sort of worship them, believe they are the source of creation. Some believe that the world stands on the back of a tortoise's shell. It's incredible, you know, how they are sort of venerated in different cultures. They have got a very Buddha-esque aura about them. I mean, I mean, this is— that's just why I absolutely love the book. And I love— we must talk about the illustrations as well, which is a friend of yours, Eoin Clarke, is it? Pronounced Owen. Owen. Sorry, yeah, just to be annoying, he has a funny spelling of his name. No, it's an Irish spelling, Eoin Clarke, E-O-I-N Clarke. And yeah, we got together, um, for work, uh, some time ago now when, uh, with my TV hat on, I was trying to get away a series of short, um, grown-up animations. The Bravs. The Bravs. Um, I should say that it's not suitable for people, you know, young people buying Albert Upside Down, the first picture book. It's a totally different thing, although it is a cartoon. And, um, I think we all know from Family Guy and South Park that being a cartoon does not actually necessarily mean that it's going to be suitable for children. Not quite Disney, no. It's, um, yeah, so there's a slightly different audience we're after there. But anyway, we— I was chatting these round Again, we're struggling to get them made. Met with Owen, and he did some character designs, did all that, did that. And then we just started to make them actually and put them on YouTube. Then they got taken up by the Dave channel and UKTV. So they ran about a dozen episodes on there. And it's still— we're still doing it for YouTube, exclusively to YouTube now. And we post when we can, and they're all over social media as well, the Bravs. When I was sort of thinking about the Albert book, you know, obviously first call was to Owen to see what he would come up with. And the look of Albert for Albert Upside Down came— went through quite a few stages. You know, he did start off with quite a Disney-like tortoise. We thought maybe he should have a crash helmet because he was a bit accident-prone, you know, really anthropomorphizing him. But then we kind of settled on this sort of very retro look, if you like. We both love, you know, things like the drawings of E.H. Shepard with Winnie the Pooh and Wind in the Willows and more sort of books of our childhood, really. And so we wanted— and Owen particularly wanted— to get that look for the books, and I think he's done it. The praise so far has I have to say, has been amazing, you know, and people are quite rightly saying the illustrations are sort of charming, beautiful. That's exactly the words. I think it's so much better, and I read a lot of books with my children, and I think the Disney X one, Disney S ones, are a bit more, um, they haven't got as much charm to them. They are overdone. I love the way that they've all been kind of characterized, all the different insects, and creatures in Albert Upside Down, and I think it's bang on point. My son loved it. Well, thank you very much, and thank you to him. Yeah, I mean, we really worked hard on it. I mean, it sounds silly, of course you would, but we really did, you know, and falling in with the publishers Graefeg, who are an independent publisher in Wales, was great fortune because They're very much into sort of more art books, and so these books are all— all the illustrations are oil paintings originally, and then obviously they go through a process to become illustrations for the book. But we wanted to keep the sort of art look of them, you know. Yeah, I just— do you know what? There's some of these— I mean, I'm arachnophobic, and when I first saw the spiders, you actually managed to make the spiders not look scary. What about you? I have to say, Owen, I loosely use the term genius, but to me he is. He's just great. He can do all the things I wish I could do with a pen. You know, luckily it seems I can get away with writing words for things, but what he does with the art is wonderful. And of course, with a picture book, it's the pictures that more than anything tell the story. And he's great at characterisation. As you say, every little creature has his own look, character, personality, and that will develop. We've— we're very lucky, we've got a second book coming out in October. We've got a third and fourth book coming out next year, 2022, and we're already thinking about the next couple of books in this series. And then we're working on two other completely separate books as well at the moment. So we're really in the zone, really, on picture books now, which is great, and we're thoroughly enjoying it. It's sort of like a— sounds a bit, again, a bit twee maybe, but it's a happy place to go to when you're working. It's really nice to go into this sort of garden world of Albert and other creatures and bring it to life. Do you know what it kind of reminded me of a little bit? You know when in Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, when they all have to kind of deal with all the insects? Yes, yeah, there is that. I mean, the thing is, I suppose your subconscious does all sorts of things, doesn't it? I'm not going to overanalyze. Well, that's what a good book should do. Well, yes, I know, but I mean, for me, if you like, thinking it up, if that makes sense, you kind of think, oh God, it was a bit like that. And I had— you don't consciously think, I'm going to make it a bit like this and a bit like that and a bit like this and nick a bit of that and whatever. I don't, certainly didn't do that. I know some writers do that. I think David Walliams confesses to doing that. He's sort of, almost every book he's written, he will say, is an adaptation of a thing he's admired. You know, even adult things, you know. Well, this is why we do get books, because I think every single book has the capacity to have some sort of well-being element, whether it's whether it's teaching us something or it's distracting us or it's heartwarming or tells us about somebody else's experience and just brings people together. Every single book has something, even the factual books are just teaching us something. And also the, I think the joy of a picture book, not only do you get the synapses firing off because you're actually reading something, but when you've got such fantastic drawings in there as well. I mean, what it does to your brain and completely can reset what's happening to so many children being on tech at the moment, I think is stunning. Well, again, thank you for saying that. What I would say is what amazed both Owen and myself is obviously books take a long time to produce. A picture book takes a very long time to produce because you kind of write the words— well, I write the words loosely And then Owen set to work doing the artwork, and that takes a long time. As I said, they're, what, 16 double pages, I think, all oil paintings, all individually, you know, painted on oil that then have to be processed and whatever. So it takes, you know, best part of a year really to do the artwork, and So the books were really ready at the end of 2019 to have them in place for this year. Of course, what we didn't know was that the pandemic was going to happen, then COVID was going to come. So as every week, month passed, to our amazement, the little messages in the picture book, Our World Upside Down, became more and more relevant. You know, it's all about helping others, being kind, working together, absolutely, overcoming difficulties, persevering, and about how the smallest amount of assistance can make a big difference. And as, you know, the country and the world, hopefully, hopefully emerges from this pandemic and things start to open up more fully and travel starts to open more fully and businesses and shops, particularly local shops, let's say, local bookshops, let's say, need our support, that the main message of this thing is literally helping others get back on their feet. You know, it's only— it was, it just was amazing that this message grew bigger and bigger as the weeks went by. Which is another good reason for people to make sure they go out and buy it. I just want to remind everybody as well that they can find out more about Albert the Tortoise if they find him on Twitter @AlbertTortoise or Facebook at Albert the Tortoise. And you are Ian Brown TV, are you, on Twitter? I am, in that it was the only address that seemed to click for me. It's not a grand boast, but yeah, it is Ian Brown. It's also not to confuse me with a certain singer. @ianbrowntv is me, yeah. And I just wanted— also, you said that it's been received very well at the moment. You've got the likes of Julian Clary who says it's beautiful and heartwarming, and you've got John Craven of all people, what a treat for the youngest book lovers. Joe Sugg, YouTube star. I mean, you're— Michael Aspel as well. There's quite a few people who are in the know and are absolutely loving it, and I've seen Albert get a bit of love on Twitter as well. He has been, yeah. No, I'm very lucky. I, over 30 years in TV, have been lucky to work with, well, almost every household name you can name, probably, until we get into reality TV, and then I, you know, I'm not part of that. So the publishers and sort of PR people said Do you think you could get some comments from some famous names? And I'm not someone who really bothers them outside of work. I'm very much, have been, a behind-the-scenes person for all those years, and it's a bit unnatural to me to put my head above the parapet, but I dropped a line to a few people, and to my amazement and great joy, that they all came back, they all read the book, looked at the book, and came back with some amazing comments. You know, Paul Whitehouse of The Fast Show, and that lovely, lovely show Gone Fishing with Bob Mortimer, came back with great praise, calling it brilliant. You know, I say his character, brilliant. And I was just thrilled, you know, that all these people, even award-winning author Philip Ardagh came back and was very, very nice about the book. I'm thrilled that it had that response. Of course, now I hope that the great wider public take to it as well, and take to the character of Albert, because as I say, we've got at least 3 more books to come, hopefully lots more, and the plan is to sort of expand Albert's world a little bit. Hopefully. So can you tell us a little bit more about what's going to happen to Albert in the next books that are in the works? Well, the next one for October, book 2, dare I say, is called Albert and the Wind, and there's a bit of a clue in the title there. And as I said about Albert Upside Down, genuinely Albert will now and then very rarely, he will end up on his back on his shell because he sort of overstretched himself, or he's trying to climb a rock in the garden or something, and he'll just topple over. So that genuinely happens to him. Another thing that genuinely happens to him is if it's a particularly windy day and we present him with his food, which would be leaves and sort of flower heads and things like that, they will blow away from him. And so I suddenly thought, crikey, what if his food blew away one day? The little creatures would have to start bringing it back and gathering it up for him. And it goes from there, and hopefully the end of the book is a nice surprise and totally hilarious, as hopefully this book, Albert Upside Down, is as well. I can't wait to read them all. I mean, is it bad that I— I mean, I'm going to be reading them anyway, and I quite often will just make— I read all of the kids' books anyway. I've read every single one of David Walliams, and I get the kids to come and read with me, and they are fans of reading. But, you know, one of the reasons I had children is so that I can keep on reading children's books all the way through, you know, I'm going to think about things like that. I think there's a great thing to be said for reading aloud to children or with children. I love to do it, and my nan did it with me. That's going to be my big memory, I think, of all that. My— obviously my parents did as well, but my nan was quite poorly and lived with us when I was a little kid. Excuse me. And she would just read to me for must have been hours and hours and hours from her bed. And it was incredible. She probably, though who would have known it, got me into words and writing and books. I mean, I've just always done it, really, from as long as I can remember. Not a boast, but I mean, I even won, I think, my first writing award when I was about 4 or 5, which was like a thing with Cadburys. The chocolate people, who wanted a— it was a national competition, and they wanted a story with some pictures, but I'm no Owen Clarke, I hasten to say, of the story of how chocolate is made. So from cow making the milk through to chocolate. And I obviously did this thing, and I've still got the certificate. I seem to remember that I also won a huge box of chocolates, but I don't remember getting the chocolates. I went to a convent school originally, and I somehow think the nuns whisked the chocolates away, but I'm not going to— I'm not libeling them, I don't think, but it's, um, it's, uh, I don't really remember having the chocolates, but I certainly have the certificate still. I think a child at that age would have remembered if they were allowed to keep their chocolates. I was very similar, actually. I was I was always reading. That's the one thing that my mum and myself as a mother have always been, you know, if you want books, knock your heart out, you know. We spend a lot of time in lovely bookshops where, you know, we can spend a good half hour, an hour, or sometimes I even leave the kids in Waterstones and I'll go to Starbucks, get a coffee, come back. Other coffee shops are available. And we do often— often in Waterstones themselves. Well, yes, they are. And actually, do you know what? There's a 3 or 4 storey Waterstones next to where I live and there's a lovely café there and I cannot wait for it to open again. I live close to Richmond and it's so beautiful as well if I want to go and do some ladies' women's wear shopping and the kids will just stay in Waterstones going, "Yeah!" And don't get me wrong, my kids are 11 and 14. It's not like I'm abandoning them. And they absolutely love it. A really sweet story about my eldest when he was in— do you know when they give out these vouchers for World Book Day? Yes, yeah, yeah. So all these kids had come out, got these vouchers and went, "Ugh, that's not going to get me any V-Bucks for my Xbox or whatever," and chucked them all on the floor, whereas my son grabbed them all and went, "Mum, let's go to Waterstones, I can get like all 10 books that are out today, not just one of the vouchers," because he picked up all the vouchers off floor so you could get every single book, and they're all finished by the end of the day. How brilliant. That's amazing. I mean, I think it's great. I mean, in that, I suppose my love of words, love of whatever, got me— ended up doing what I do because of that. But, you know, you can end up working in publishing, in journalism, in, well, now blogging and vlogging and all that sort of thing.. And it's just a great sort of grounding, isn't it, to be into that kind of thing. And you just— It's a scape as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, you know, equally I would say, you know, the books are out as ebooks, and we've even done, because of Owen's background, excuse me, as an animation director, we've also done an animated ebook of of Albert Upside Down, and will do, all being well, of the others, which is very sweet. It's Grafix's first animated ebook actually, and we're thrilled to be able to do it for them and with them. And it's really, again, it adds an extra level. I've had to break out my best performance to do the narration, and amazingly, it ended up sounding a bit like another thing from my childhood, sort of like the, sort of, Camberwick Green and Pogles Wood and things like that. It's just bizarre how my voice ended up sounding. It wasn't deliberate, but hopefully people will like it if they take that route to the book. Do you know what, Ian? I think that's so incredibly important because reading is important. Finding ways to get kids to read, especially when there's so many other things out there for children at the moment, and you need to try and convince them that it's not just about tech. And giving them varieties of ways to consume a book is key because it's not easy for some people to concentrate, whereas visually, if it's on an iPad, they'll be able to take that on board more easily. So I do think that's a fantastic route that you've taken. Yes, I mean, the hope is it's a springboard to get them to then go to the actual book rather than just have that. I mean, I'm— your love of coffee shops, I'm also quite a lover of coffee shops, shops, and of course I'm aware of, you know, children being sat in high chairs or in prams in these coffee shops with a screen in front of them. But it, rather than them sort of doing a game or something, it would be quite nice if they were going through a book, you know, because it's got sort of read-along text, or you can just read it as a book with the characters moving a bit, you know. It's just really sweet. And as As you say, if it's a way of getting children more into reading and books, I'm all for it, you know, happy to plug that forever and ever. Do you know what? Something really interesting happened. It was actually a couple of years ago now, but especially when I go out for Sunday roasts, and there's a favorite bookshop that we have near us. And actually, wherever we go, we always try and seek out bookshops. Shops. But me and the kids had gone out for a Sunday lunch, we'd all got a book each, and we're all just sitting there and reading a book, waiting for our food to come out. And this woman came up to us and went, "I just thought I'd come and say hi and just say it's nice to actually see kids reading a book and not stuck on tech while you're there having a glass of wine and waiting for your dinner." And she goes, "I didn't mean to intrude, I just wanted to say it's really nice to see." There you go, you see. Okay. More people did it, they'd get more praise, wouldn't they? Yeah, you do. No, it's a nice thing, you know. I just, you know, bits, little bits of my family, I know they always do carry a book in a pocket, you know. It's amazing. And they've— so if there's ever a wait, you know, at an airport or a train station or for food or whatever, they just pull a book out and start reading. It's, um, it's a nice sort of habit to get into. Do you know what, it's interesting that especially when, um, it first kicked off with COVID and we'd be in, you know, we could be in 40-minute queues outside the supermarkets waiting to go in. And, you know, or you're waiting at the car wash, anywhere, you know, I always take a book because it's never lost time. And a lot of us can get anxiety about wasted time or stuck in queues. But if you've got a book, you feel like the time's being used, um, so much more productively. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, equally, I suppose you could argue audiobooks, you know, you just put your earpiece in or whatever and you're off and running there as well, which is another way of getting, you know, into books, I suppose, for people. It's, yeah, it's a great pleasure and, you know, you can learn things, can't you? Which was again another element of Albert was, you know, you mentioned it at the beginning, the fact facts at the end of the book. We— I just thought it was a nice idea to throw in sort of, we're calling them fun facts, but something that's a bit interesting for children. They're probably, you know, there for slightly older readers maybe, but they are hopefully sort of, in the truest sense, fascinating. As you said, you know, that this creature is from a prehistoric age almost.. And, you know, we know that kids— most kids love dinosaurs. And so most kids that meet Albert, if we, you know, have people over, friends over, or whatever, and their children have come over the years, they are fast— they are genuinely fascinated by Albert, and they all want to try and feed him, and they sort of ask loads of questions. Because one of the first things I say is, imagine Albert blown up 100 times, you know, and that is a dinosaur. You know, it really is. And, you know, the fact that he doesn't have teeth, he's got a beak like a bird, and therefore you can link reptiles to the birds. And it's just, you know, an incredible thing. And the fact he generally only eats veggies, you know, so he was ahead of the trend of, as you said at the beginning as well, of the veganism. Well, yeah, and as many vegans will tell you, the vegan diet diet can be somewhat contributory to flatulence, which Albert has the same issues. Well, he generally does. Again, he does tip over upside down, his food does go away, and he does every now and then have flatulence while he's eating sometimes, while you're feeding him, he will make a little noise and— Oh, it's loud, is it? Sorry. So it does actually produce a bit of a sound, does it? Oh, there is a sound. Oh yeah, no, totally. Yeah, no, he does. Yeah, oh yeah, there's noises. And indeed, there's a very funny noise on the animated ebook version, I have to say. We had to go through the catalog of those noises in a sound library and picking it. There's nothing not funny about listening to those noises at length, trying to choose the perfect one. And it is a very, very entertaining one that is on the animated ebook, I have to say. I'm 39 and I still find flatulence funny. I very much hope that some children watching or playing the animated ebook in a crowded place with their parents will have it on full volume when that plays out. It'll be very funny indeed. But I did wonder when you said Albert and the Wings and then you kind of pointed out that it was More to do with— No spoilers here, but you never know. Well, do you read a lot yourself? I do really, but I mainly read biographies and sort of diar— you know, people's diaries. Not— I don't break into people's houses and read their diary, you know, published diaries. I'm a great fan of the sort of Michael Palin diaries and the Alan Bennett Diaries and books like that. And that stems from my, the bulk of my TV work, which for about 20 years was on the This Is Your Life show. For people that will remember it, that's the big red book. We're always on about books. The big red book show that was originally hosted by Eamon Andrews. I didn't work with Eamon, but I then, I joined the show on Michael Aspel's second series and was there till the bitter end. And then was the writer for the sort of revival of it on ITV when Trevor McDonald did Simon Cowell for the second time, which is a massive show, which allowed me then to write for Homer Simpson, which I'm very, very proud of, and other people on that show. But I wrote This Is Your Life for many years and was a researcher on it for many years before that. And so you would become an expert on someone's life story for about a fortnight, and then you move on to the next person. So I was devouring biographies and published diaries and newspaper articles on people that we were going to be paying tribute to. And I just sort of stuck with that, really. And I, I love those books. I like all the sort of— particularly if they're a TV person or a show-busy person I like all the sort of behind-the-scenes gossipy stuff and things you wouldn't have known about when a program is being made. There's not as much hidden information as there used to be. There's too many people and too much social media that sometimes I do like a biography to actually have the internal voice a little bit more. Well, that's right. I mean, obviously the ones I've quoted, Alan Bennett and Michael Palin, of course they're all pre- The bulk of their work is pre-social media. And they're not particularly active on social media at all, if at all. And so, you know, what I love, for example, with Michael Palin is talking about the sort of like the Pythons meeting up, Monty Python team meeting up, and how they would, you know, sort of work through sketches and how they would have— there was almost politics involved, you know, of how they would present them and who thought what was funny. But the essence being that if they all thought something was funny, they would make it, you know, they would do it. And actually, that is very much the way that Owen and I work now, our collaborations. If we find something funny or we think it looks right or whatever together, then we just go for it. And we do that with the bruvz, the cartoons that we do. Down with the books, you know, with Albert and the other things we're working on. Well, you found a team that works. Well, I have very luckily, and we have very luckily. I work with the Bravs, I work with 3 other people, Paul, Stig, and Pete, who do the music and do the sound and do the editing and such like. And it's a great little team, and we would love to make more of those, the Bravs, but we are a bit bound by other commitments and day jobs jobs and things like that nowadays. I hate it when a day job gets in the way of you actually having fun. Well, it is a nice thing to do, but you do have to work every now and then. But now, joy of joys, books are my day job. It's an incredible transition. I sort of have stepped away somewhat from TV, or it stepped away from me. I mean, I've been very lucky. I did journalism From leaving school, I did a, you know, one year— well, I worked for— dare I say I worked for a year. You're like this, lady, you're into your ladies' fashionwear, you were saying. I worked for a year in a shoe shop and became quite an expert on high heels and slingbacks and ladies' comfortable sandalwear and such like. Is this your way of saying you like wearing women's shoes? This is not me saying that at all, no. Oh, okay. Although I do love sandal, I have to say, for the comfort when I'm walking. But I did that, then I did a year's course in journalism at Harlow Tech College, and then was very lucky to get a job before I'd even finished the course. And 5 years in journalism, ending up on the very tail end of Fleet Street, Sunday Express, as a sub-editor there. Having been a reporter. I then got into TV news and whatever, and then got into telly, more entertainment shows, things like that. And then my career just sort of carried on. And as you said, I was able to work with Joe Sugg and his mate Caspar Lee on a couple of road trips we did with them. Worked with Jeremy Clarkson for many years on solo projects and then Top Gear specials. And I've been sort of a lucky chap, really. And now, luck of lucks, I've managed to get the books away and they're taking up all my time in a marvellous way. And indeed, through lockdown, it was just incredible. You know, it's wrong to say you've had a good lockdown, isn't it? I suppose because there's nothing wrong with looking at the positive side of something. Well, it was, you know, I have to say, for Owen and I, it was very positive because Owen was able to paint away in solitude pretty much and just get so much work done. And I was able to work on the words and work on, you know, pre-publicity and lining up things, getting ducks in a row kind of thing, and to work on the next two books that we're planning. And it's just sort of been fortuitous timing in so many ways, but I know it hasn't for many, so I'm I'm not wanting to crow about that, but it was quite good timing for us, lockdown. I think that it's— there's a lot of disparity in what people have experienced over the last year or so, but regardless, I think it's still very good for the soul to focus on any positive element and to kind of run with that. It creates a lot better, a lot healthier mindset. Absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I have to say, the one thing that we decided to do in this house was pretty much have a routine each day. I think it sounds boring, but I think a routine is, you know, it's how the military gets people through things, and it's how sort of boarding school gets people through things. And just routine, you know, you do things at a certain time, otherwise you're, you know, you— I don't know, you would end up lounging on the sofa all the time or whatever. I did that too, to be honest. Well, that's true. Yeah, there is a lot to be said for it, but, you know, a bit of routine is quite good, and it just helps pass the day. You know, that was the thing, isn't it? Particularly through the depths of the winter, it was a bit miserable, wasn't it, to say the least? And just a bit of routine helped a bit. Let's put it like that, maybe. Do you know what I found ridiculously interesting? That on the 29th of March, as soon as people were allowed to actually meet up with 6 other people, all of a sudden it got ridiculously warm. It's like, it's like someone's going, "Right, we need to give somebody a little bit of a boost." Absolutely. And the first lockdown, we had like the hottest 3 or 4 months ever. It was ridiculous. Well, I think that was a great saving grace, wasn't it? During the first lockdown, people could get out, get outside a bit, and the weather was nice. And yeah, now that was a great saving. And as you say, you know, 29th of March hit and the mini heatwave hit. Not only was it perfect for people to break out, but it was perfect for Albert the Tortoise as well, having just emerged from his long sleep. And we were able to sort of get him going with a bit of food quite quickly, and, you know, he was off and firing. Oh, bless him, and I love it that he timed it so well that a rubbish lockdown with rubbish weather over the winter, he went, "Do you know what? I'll see you in a few months." Well, I have to say, he did exploit that on his social media, on his Twitter and his Facebook. Quite a few posts going, "Don't you wish you could sleep through all this lot?" And I mean, it was only trying to be comical, let's say that, but it was true really, wasn't it? I mean, I think a lot of us would have quite liked to have missed a few of the— jump forward the months. Every now and then, I think if there's something sort of tricky coming up in life or whatever, I often think, "Wouldn't it be great if we could skip forward now and do like they do on the movies or the telly and have a little montage set to music?" and jump ahead and all of a sudden that thing's all sorted out and here we are at the other end of it. And you kind of think that Albert has that perfect kind of setup where, you know, the winter comes, it's all a bit miserable. Indeed, you know, recently obviously we had the lockdown, but he skips everything. Of course, the one downside for him is he always misses Christmas and New Year. So, oh, through that. And that may indeed be another story, but he doesn't go on about it, you know. And we do make up for it, you know. He has copious gifts once he emerges every year. Well, maybe Albert could go upside down Down Under where it's warmer in— Oh, now you're talking! Yeah, you like it! I would like a credit, please. Just hang on, I'm just reaching for a pad and a pen. Hazel's— I'm really pleased I had that brilliant idea there, Hazel. Yeah, didn't you do well? I think I did. And as well as the hashtag #AlbertTheTortoise, maybe you should have hashtag #bemorealbert. Well, we're doing that, I have to say. Dare I say, we are going a bit #bemorealbert. It's one of the things I'm putting in the books as I sign them, I have to say, #bemorealbert. Oh, I like that. I mean, I mean, talking about, you know, iconic ways to be and people to admire, a question I like to ask my guests here at Get Booked, the women's and men's radio station, is who do you admire, or who do you think is completely, um, a fantastic person to see in the public eye that is worthwhile? Um, I'm going straight to— I've already mentioned him actually because I love his diaries— Michael Palin, I think. Because he is probably the nicest person in showbiz, and he is sort of wise because of what he's done and seen and where he's traveled and such like. I rather loved those, um, they obviously did them I think for lockdown, you know, because they could use the archive footage, but they filmed him at his home going through his old unpublished bits of his diaries, his sort of notes and jottings and things, going over some of his previous journeys. And, you know, the sad thing is that even without the pandemic and lockdown and travel restrictions for that, a great many of the places he went to, you can't go to now. They're war zones, or they're bricked up, or they're, you know, they don't exist, or a dam has been built and that waterfall has vanished, or whatever. And the sort of the changing face of the world and all that sort of thing. He's sort of like a little one-man encyclopedia on all of that because of those travel films he made and such like. Amazing. And he is lovely. I've been lucky enough to meet him and work with him a little bit. He was a guest on a few This Is Your Lives. And he is very charming. I've also— I should also say, of course, everyone famous I've ever worked with also is a great inspiration to me. 'Cause I don't want to upset them. But— Oh, that's my next question was going to be, and who's the worst? I'm not going to say. I wouldn't ask you that, really. No, I can't say that because I still work with people, so— And also, I would say, I think it's very hard to say what makes someone worst. You know, I've had a few run-ins with a few famous names, And now they're just great anecdotes, you know, for in a private situation. But when I look back on it, and it, you know, some years later, I can see that certain people behaved in a certain way. One, maybe they weren't very well at the time, you know, though we didn't know it. Maybe they were under huge pressure because it was their show, you know, everything was all eyes were on them to produce the goods every show. And so therefore they would lash out at people they were working with or sort of, quote, close to on the team. And, you know, as I get older, I can't hold that against people, I don't think. You know, it was a bit grim at the time because I was quite a young aspiring all sorts. You know, I was sort of like, "Oh my God, I just had a run-in with so-and-so." awful. But I couldn't say who was the worst because I think there were reasons for all of that, you know. Well, with age and experience comes wisdom, as Albert, you know, can definitely teach us. But this is why it's good, as you say, to read autobiographies and biographies, to understand, you know, that actually sometimes people behave a certain way for a reason. And just don't judge what you don't understand. And everything's subjective. And if we all liked each other, and if we understood each other, it'd be an incredibly boring place to live. But it does— it still does mean that we can be kind and step away if you need to. Yes, hopefully. I mean, obviously I am the most popular person on the planet, but no one dislikes me ever. But no, I mean, I'm standing right next to you on that one, Ian. Thank you. You just don't know, do you, how really what people think of you And should you worry about that? I think there's enough in life probably to worry about, as long as you're sort of true to yourself, but you're not deliberately going out of your way to make other people's lives miserable or, you know, oppressed by you in some way. But there are people like that out there, but you know, we have the ability the majority of the time to just step away. Leave people to it. Indeed, yeah, that is true as well, but you would hope that you weren't ignoring them if they were in need of some help, I suppose. It's very— Moderation. Yeah, it's very difficult, and bizarrely, as we are now emerging, hopefully, hopefully, we keep saying, from all this sort of lockdown thing, as we try, as we become more sociable,, as we have to move away from screens and all the online contact that we've had and actually have to get back to meeting up with real people again. You know, it's going to be interesting, isn't it? I'm already object— I'm already sort of slightly objecting to the sort of more people on the pavements as I go out for my walk each day and whatever, or go to the local supermarket. It's sort of like, "Oh, what are all these people doing here?" But, you know, it's going to come, isn't it? You know, the plane noise is going to come back, the car noise is going to come back, and we've all got to readapt to all that. You know, it's going to be quite something for people, you know. And there's going to be a lot of fear involved as well. There's a lot— I think people just need to be a bit mindful of everybody else's individual circumstances. You do what you need to do to get by and let other people do what they need to do to get by. We are actually running out of time. We've only got a few minutes left. We've kind of raced through our chat, but I do like to ask my guests for 3 top tips on good mental health and good mental well-being. Right, well, personally, and it's based on my personal experience of sort of the loss of my parents, I suppose, particularly my mum some years ago, but I had sort of cared for her for some time. It was quite exhausting and distressing. I walk. It sounds very basic, but I walk every day. I do it for my health, actually, because I have hereditary high cholesterol thing, which they found when I was 11, and so I've always had to do sort of a certain level of exercise exercise, and I do about an hour, hour and a half's walk every day at as fast as I can manage, and I do a set route. I don't have to think about the route, and I can kind of disengage brain, if you like. It's a great way, personally, for me to work. I don't know how it happens, but I work out problems with writing, and I even work out sort of life problems as well. I'll sort of come back and having had my shower or whatever, all of a sudden I go, "Oh yeah, that might be a way to do that." And it could be about how a sentence is formed, or it could be about, you know, how to deal with someone I've got to telephone later or whatever. Yeah, headspace. Yeah, so that's my main one, I would say. It covers most things. The other, the other things I would say is get good sleep. Try and get a good sleep. Don't go to bed too late. I know we've all been doing it. Through lockdown, you know, it's like binging on the box sets all through the night, just saying, oh, shall we have another one? Shall we have another one? I'm just going to— Netflix, absolutely. But I've read, I've sort of read lots of articles on sleep, and it is such an important thing. And with kids as well, it's very important, you know. So therefore, read them a bit of Albert Upside Down just before bedtime and get them to sleep, you know. That's the thing. I love that plug, Vane, and I'm so proud of you. That's fair. I think that— and I can't think of a third one really, but you know, I have to watch my diet personally because of my cholesterol thing, so I suppose eat sensibly maybe would be another way to go. I think they're fantastic tips. I think the walking one is my favourite one because I do that as well. There's nothing like just getting some headspace either with your audiobook or just really having a good old think without any interactions, and there's something about being outside of the house that really helps that to kind of come into fruition, and I think that's fantastic. I have to say, very quickly, I don't even think while I'm doing walking. You know what I mean? I don't think I've got to sort this thing out in my head. So I will do writing, for example, in the morning, whether it's for telly or whatever I'm writing, early-ish, and then I'll have a walk late morning, probably, if I can. And I will somehow, and I don't know how it happens, my head will sort out what I've just been working on and come up with an improvement, you know. I love that. Thank you so much, Ian, for joining us here at Get Booked for Women's and Men's Radio Station. I've had an absolute hoot, and I cannot wait to speak to you when the next books come out. I look forward to it too, and this has been a delight. You can get Albert Upside Down from the 27th of April from anywhere and everywhere. Thank you for listening.