[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 3:34) Hello, this is Anna Kennedy and we're talking all things autism and what a beautiful sunny day. It's so lovely and the Sun always makes me feel so much better. So I'm just want to remind you about a few things before I invite my guest. And so just to remind you about the autism hero wards, we are getting so many. Well, I can't believe how many entries we're getting in. We've got 12 different categories. So if you want to nominate somebody that you feel that goes the extra mile, whether it's a parent or a carer or a teacher or a reporter, whoever you feel that you might like to nominate, check out the charity website. We've had our two transition workshops and that was on the back of Harvey and me on the actual documentary. So they have been going so well. We had over 100 people. And then the first one we did, we had just under 100. So many anxious parents asking questions about, you know, what's going to happen? 18 plus. So please check out the charity website. Some of those talks are going to be on YouTube as well. We're preparing, hopefully, Boston Eye for Otons Got Talent, the road show. So that should be happening in September, fingers crossed. And then 10 year celebration in October, which is for Otons Got Talent. Cannot wait. I've had a few messages as well over the weekend from some of the performers saying, is it going to happen? Is it going to happen? I'm thinking I'm hoping it's going to happen because all of my charity champions and volunteers were dying to get to do what we do best. And last thing is I've been working with Katie on the autumn show. So we're inviting autistic guests along. So again, those will be on YouTube. So check them out. And one other thing, because obviously we've had autism awareness week, I've been doing a lot of Zoom chats, never done so many Zoom chats, chatting to people from all over the country and all over the world. And also been chatting to the Metropolitan Police. We've been doing awareness raising with them. My husband's been talking about stop and search. We also had two police women, one retired. Those on the autistic spectrum and one who's still working within the force. And then myself and another one of the inspectors who's got two children on the spectrum. We were talking about our experiences and about the work of the charity. Last thing I just wanted to share with you is about Mood Bears again. They've been doing so many bears for Easter. They're so beautiful, these bears, and we're working in collaboration with them. So they've got Hope Bear, Sad Bear, Happy Bear, Love Bear. They've got the Giggle Bear. And then they've also got the Anxious Bear. I would say Happy Bear is probably my favorite and I've got Love Bear as well. And then Born Anxious, who is the clothing company that I'm working in collaboration with, with Kelly. They have so many lovely, lovely items and soft, organic, no labels. We've got the Harvey Price range. We've got Anna Kennedy online. We've got the Give Us a Break t-shirt. And there's some new ones coming out as well. And we've got our lovely little bags as well. So check out on Born Anxious. It's www.bornanxious.co.uk. So my guest today is Lois, the lovely Lois. She's going to be talking about herself and she's going to be talking about living with ADHD. Hello Lois, are you there? Hi Anna, I'm here. It's lovely to speak to you. Yeah, you too. And I believe you're sitting in a hotel and you've got a lovely view. [Speaker 1] (3:35 - 3:55) Do you know where I am? You're right, it's a lovely, lovely sunny day. It's beautiful out there and I've got a lovely view of London. So I'm close to the river, which I've now realised means I could be anywhere. But I'm by Tower Bridge. So yes, I'm in a lovely hotel and training and working down here and speaking to you as well. So yeah, I've got... [Speaker 2] (3:56 - 4:24) So just do a little bit of a background for you and then you can talk about yourself. So Lois Diamond, you've got a particular interest in mental health awareness. As someone with ADHD, you're passionate about inclusivity for people with mental health and you're looking forward to a future where ADHD and autism are celebrated and not feared or judged. Suicide prevention and parental empowerment are other important topics for you. So tell me a little bit about... Where do you live? Tell me about your background. [Speaker 1] (4:24 - 6:47) Okie dokie. So I'm from Exeter in Devon, so I'm southwest based and I've lived in Exeter all my life. So yeah, that's where I'm from. And obviously, I really like that description. And as said in there, talking about the issues of inclusivity and coming from my own experience, I have become really passionate about these topics. And that's something that I really identified with you with. And as you know, I was so excited when you responded following the Harvey Price documentary, which by the way, I do want to say thank you to everyone on that production, because that was that TV documentary. There are so many key pieces of information that as a parent, I got from that documentary, which has enabled me to kind of search why I don't learn a bit wider. But to stick to kind of me and who I am, my background. So like I say, I'm Devon based, but I've recently set up a project and I've set up a parents review team. There's a current investigating into children's care. There's an investigation. We, the parents, are essentially reviewing the review. So that's become kind of a part of my more recent work, which is leading kind of more traveling. And actually, we're in, we've got cases, London, well, sorry, England, UK, Scotland, Australia and America within 12 days. Well, I've been busy then. I've actually really enjoyed it. For me, I mean, I locked down. So we've had a long year and it's really interesting to be at this point in the year turning into spring and as we reflect on where we were last year. And I'm thinking of what's happened in the past year and also what can happen in the next year, kind of more importantly, and how we kind of deal from this trauma. But yeah, it's been a crazy year and parts of lockdown have been really difficult. But parts for me, I've been able to kind of strategize and be like, right, there's a lot I can't do, but what can I do? And the bits that I can do, I want to do really well. So, you know, I have been busy, but I've been enjoying it as well. And it's been an adventure and one that I feel very privileged to be on. [Speaker 2] (6:48 - 7:02) OK, so if you don't mind, you have a diagnosis of ADHD. Can you talk to me a little bit about when was the diagnosis and if it was quite lit? Yeah. How did you cope at school as you were growing up? [Speaker 1] (7:04 - 9:09) So I've been diagnosed with ADHD, I think for around about six months. So I'm 33. It's my birthday today, actually. Thank you so much, Arianne. So you're a March birthday as well. I think March brings a lovely time of year to have a birthday. So I had a late diagnosis. I had an adult female diagnosis. And actually, this is becoming quite common. And part of my psychiatric assessment wasn't just of me. She spent quite a lot of time talking to my mum. I think she spent about two hours talking to my mum, actually, about behaviours at school. And her kind of prognosis or diagnosis was that since age five, I've essentially had ADHD. And so we kind of just thought it was my personality. And for example, growing up, myself and my siblings and all that, we would all be told, don't touch. Do you see what I mean? Like, if you go out, I'll be on your best behaviour. Yeah, and I remember being on holiday. And I remember my granddad really saying to me, when we got older in this shop, you've got to behave. You're not allowed to touch. And it was like some kind of old fashioned stuff, antiques. And of course, I couldn't help myself. So I picked up and looked at it. And it was just that now looking back, it was a thing that I always would do. And I remember being told as well. And on reflection, there really wasn't a lot of awareness that actually I couldn't sit still. Now I would be told, oh, black, please sit still. No, can you listen? Can you sit still? And I ended up, the narrative I had of myself was, well, there must be something bad with me because actually I can't sit still. And I don't know why. I am trying, but I can. Now I realise that that's just symptomatic of the neurology of ADHD. [Speaker 2] (9:11 - 9:16) So what made you want to get a diagnosis at 33? So 33, you had the diagnosis? [Speaker 1] (9:16 - 9:18) So I'm 33 today. [Speaker 2] (9:18 - 9:19) Oh, I was 32 then. [Speaker 1] (9:19 - 11:22) Yeah, so yeah, 32 and a half. So I experienced, part of the reason I'm a mental health advocate and I like, not just in my personal life as well, my professional life as well, is to have an open platform about mental health discussions because there is quite a lot of uncertainty around diagnosis, misdiagnosis. And I wouldn't say I wanted a diagnosis because with my project looking beyond the labels, it just really sums up all of the areas that I'm interested in because essentially ADHD, like autism, like any way that we might separate people, form opinions of people comes with a label and it comes with like connotations and they can be quite like prejudice and often they really misrepresent the person. I think if someone took a look at my medical notes, they might have like a sense of me that doesn't fit my true nature. So what's really important to me, like I have ADHD and I'm proud of that. Well, I'm certainly not ashamed of that and like my message to people who have ADHD, think that they have ADHD, I think what's important is a lot can be, and it's understandable. We want like, my diagnosis was helpful because it's helped me to have a lens through which to understand my own behavior and it's only when we understand like our triggers or things like that that we collect to address them. So the label was helpful because it gave me a framework to understand it. But I don't like the idea of, because there's lots of different disorders and I think there is quite a lot of misdiagnosis and late diagnosis, which is something you spoke about when you were speaking to the lady last week, is it, Smith? [Speaker 2] (11:23 - 11:40) I was chatting about, we hear lots about children, about teens, about adults, but you never really tend to hear that much about 60 plus. So I always wondered if there must be autistic adults that are older, and I'd like to hear their stories if you like. [Speaker 1] (11:40 - 12:51) Absolutely, and it's like, so our modern day culture, we're familiar, even going back when I was growing up, I knew what ADHD, but I had this standard stereotype of like a naughty boy that I didn't know what it meant. I completely misjudged these boys that had this behavior and I think lots of people did. For the generation of 60 plus, and when you said about it, I got really interested in it as well, because I think, if we were to have talks with these people and say things like, when you were young at school, like for example, would you rather tell, could you ever not sit still? ADHD hasn't just come about, we've just become aware of it. So absolutely, there'll be a huge community of people that do have these disorders. The reality of them, people getting a diagnosis, I've tried to manage expectations with people. I think like I had quite a serious mental health crisis and breakdown, a medical breakdown, which meant that I was able to access some good quality care. But the reality is, it's not always that accessible as much as I would wish it was. [Speaker 2] (12:51 - 12:54) It is less now as well, with cuts and everything that's going on. [Speaker 1] (12:55 - 13:52) But there are ways that people can, I've got the label of ADHD, but to other people who perhaps maybe think they've got it themselves or have had a couple of friends say that a diagnosis is just an indicator really. And it's in some senses, no more or less important than your best friend saying like, oh, don't take this the wrong way. But I read about this and I think it suits that. And I'm not saying to self-diagnose, definitely not. I don't think everyone needs to research. But if you can identify with the characteristic behaviours of a disorder, I wouldn't say necessarily say self-diagnose, but I certainly would research the strategies that people with that diagnosis use and implement them. And you don't need to wait six months to be able to go and do that because that's on the internet and there are services that will help people with that. Just with education. [Speaker 2] (13:53 - 14:12) So let's go back in the years and we touched on it very briefly because you said you couldn't sit still. But with reference to being at school, because I'm thinking of parents that are listening in thinking, oh, I wonder if my son and my daughter's got ADHD. So what sort of things, apart from not being able to sit still and find difficult at school and did you get any help? [Speaker 1] (14:14 - 16:13) So one thing I found difficult, I mean, now that I embraced my ADHD and if someone tried to take my ADHD away from them, they'd have a bit of a challenge because I would not be giving it up. It's part of my identity. But another behavior, something I've always, and I used to feel like I was being naughty for it and now I'm really proud of it. And in terms of my career, I think it's great, but I would always ask why. So someone would give me an answer and I would say, but why if I didn't understand and whether it was a teacher, there'd be occasions where it'd be like, we've told you and I would still have further questions and just a really, really active inquiry. When we break ADHD down to attention deficit and I do get that, I get the hyperactivity more but I definitely get attention deficit. But the hyperactivity, my brain wants to know and with ADHD, we engage the prefrontal cortex, which is the front part of our brain, which is more to do with logistics understanding. So it makes sense that I would always want to know why because I felt like I needed to understand and certain things didn't make sense. And I draw, I don't have a diagnosis of autism. I've got friends with autism. Interestingly, my mum has said to me, she believes I'm autistic, which I think it's interesting. I don't agree with her. My psych doesn't either. My psychiatrist, but it's just interesting for her to say that. But there are crossovers and something that I would relate to with people with autism and like I said, this is my interpretation of autism. Something I would say that I share with you or with people with that diagnosis or with people with ADHD. We experience quite a lot of confusion with our own behaviours. And I have moments where you're working too hard, just calm down and I can't do it. And I'll be on my laptop and I just can't calm down. [Speaker 2] (16:13 - 16:15) I just feel like your brain never rests. [Speaker 1] (16:15 - 16:34) Yeah, and how I describe it. So I'm speaking to you now from my MacBook. I've only got a few browsers open because I'm mindful and I'm speaking to you. But how my brain feels like normally is like a computer with a hundred browsers. Some of them have got music, some of them and I'm just constantly trying to navigate through it. [Speaker 2] (16:36 - 16:47) How to help yourself focus. So say, for example, you've got somebody who's listening in and thinking, okay, I think just the same way as what she's describing now. Have you got any tips to help you focus? [Speaker 1] (16:47 - 18:47) Yeah, so grounding is really important. Breathing is really important. And also, I focus. So I'm quite ambitious and I think that's that hyperactivity. So I'll set myself goals. I'm quite thorough. I'm quite organised. If you've seen my desk, I've got lots of notes. I've got lots of prompts. Don't swear being one of them. So that's how I focus. I'm preparing. In one of the previous all things autism that I've listened to, you talk about how people manage their self-esteem and things like that. And I think how I've become resilient. So even though I have these labels and they do make me vulnerable and it's wrong for people to think, well, she sounds fine. So I don't think she's vulnerable. That's wrong. I have the vulnerabilities of other people. But I perhaps have more developed strategies. And I guess the benefits of having a breakdown or maybe two or extended one. I'm not too clear. But it's that I've also got breakdown recovery. I've got breakdown strategy. And that's helpful. So say, for example, with the inclusivity in the workplace, say, for example, I applied for a job. They found out through my social media. I had ADHD and it made them worried. But I think that automatic judgment might be failing them from a missed opportunity, really. It's simple examples. It doesn't even get to interview. Because something I think about, we're all going through with COVID. So we're all going through a shared trauma. And it's the first time, I think, that everyone of all generations, we're all scared. We're all frightened that we're always going to hurt each other. By transmitting the virus, we're all experiencing this like real trauma. [Speaker 2] (18:48 - 19:14) It's like a new thing that we've never experienced before. And everyone's sort of sharing their experiences in different ways. And some people are keeping their way at home. You know, some people find it that they can't stay at home because they feel like they're enclosed in. So they're going more for walks or exercise or whatever. Everyone's more or less dealing with it in a different way. So would you say that your mind is more overactive because of what's going on around you because you're at the stress of it all? [Speaker 1] (19:14 - 20:30) Do you know what? I would argue, yes, because since COVID, I've obviously set up a few personal projects that I'm working on, which are around, you know, really, really understanding. And I've got some personal views on kind of the news presentation of the virus. One thing, I, you know, of course, I'm concerned about COVID. Everyone's safety is important to me. Obviously, I've got grandparents who are alive. I, you know, I love my family. I love my community as well. But for me, a real pandemic, which is underreported, which is what I'd like, you know, to talk more about it. If we knew the true reality of suicide statistics or even not, we could look at both or people that have felt suicidal and compare that with COVID. My question would be like, what are the real crises, immediate crises right now? And like, you know, I'm looking up at the window now. It's a beautiful day and I'm, you know, I feel like it's a safe time to kind of say to people and I've been beginning to say literally only just this week to people I'm working with is I think that it's an okay time for us to begin to expect that we likely are going to be coming out of this lockdown now. And I know we've said that before. [Speaker 2] (20:30 - 21:12) It's quite a few people been saying that to me now. They feel that they can see light at the end of the tunnel and I'm keeping my fingers crossed because obviously out there at the news at the moment, they're saying, Italy's back in lockdown. Yeah, it's back in lockdown. And I think those are the things that sort of make people think, oh, is that going to happen to us? Yeah, it's just each day is different. So can we go to because you've got quite a few questions to ask you and I'm mindful that we've already spoken for about 20 minutes if that's okay with you. So you've got a project called Looking Beyond the Labels and you want it to remain non-profit and it's very important to you. So talk to me a little about what does that mean, Looking Beyond the Labels? What is the project about? When did you start? [Speaker 1] (21:13 - 22:47) So I started the project on the 2nd of January 2021. So the idea came beforehand. So I decided I wanted to write a book Looking Beyond the Labels for me encompasses I've got lots of different areas of interest and Looking Beyond the Labels just felt like it fitted to everything that I wanted to do. And so being non-profit and I know your organisation's non-profit people that follow them and that's how you operate and for me there's a lot of safety in that. So I have a lot of trust and respect for people and charities that operate in that way and I think it's a real assurance to probably your listeners and the fact that you're non-profit there's genuine, you're sincere and your ambition which you've obviously done for many years I'm enjoying reading your book and I know you don't like autism expert and all that but can I just say Anna, thank you so much I'm so pleased that I come across you on that documentary and I research you up straight away and probably for about 3 or 4 days you had notifications from me from literally every single social media possible because I was just like wow and like doing it non-profit like I really wanted to help people and I wanted to help people in a genuine way and I love this states of organisations that are non-profit I mean obviously I'll probably need to work like part-time on the side but I really want to forever attain that non-profit status of my project work because... [Speaker 2] (22:47 - 22:50) Okay so Look and Beyond the Labels is a book is that what you're telling me? [Speaker 1] (22:50 - 22:59) Well so basically it started off as an idea it's now no longer just a book so it started off with just a book so that was the plan around Christmas time I thought right That's a big project [Speaker 2] (22:59 - 23:00) just a book [Speaker 1] (23:00 - 25:07) yeah well again well the hyperactivity disorder here you go so it started off as just a book and then I was like I didn't want to write a book and throw it to be well this is just one mum this is just one mum one woman's opinion on yeah so I was mindful of that and not only that I didn't want to write just about my experience I wanted to write about the experience no problems because I see these as shared problems mental health well-being is a shared problem with everybody having an individual responsibility so I wanted to research thoroughly so I was like right I'm going to talk to families and I'm going to talk to professionals I'm going to interview them and then I'm going to write the book and I've started doing that and I started off with the families because I kind of was drawn to where the immediacy was needed and that was it with supporting families so I've kind of stuck there and like the interviewing has kind of gone to one side because I'm more interested in just the authenticity of the support and it's just rolling out but you know I plan to write if they're going to be doing some YouTube videos and stuff I don't know exactly when like it's a big thing you'll know this you're on lots of different platforms I've seen your TED Talk and stuff as well which is brilliant so like you know all of this and I'm a little bit so I literally I had the idea last year for the book started on the 2nd of January looking from the labels to the project the investigation aspect of it and it's not really big so I'm just drawn to what's needed and I'm just kind of putting the pause and going back to how do I manage I got taught like physically like you know Britain's got talent it's got the buzzer it's feeling stressed hit your buzzer like hopefully it doesn't make a loud noise but it's a pause button but and just hit pause so that's what I'm doing with the project you know I'm very ethical in my approach and you know for me just like building that solid early foundation and just doing the work with supporting parents that I'm doing and you know I've got you know the other stuff will come in due course so I'm just kind of [Speaker 2] (25:07 - 25:13) so when do you think the book will be finished do you think have you got an end time or is it just a let's see how it goes [Speaker 1] (25:13 - 27:02) well I kind of thought 2022 like end of was reasonable but at the same time again the hyperactivity so I kind of like I want to tell there's I want to do two things so another area that I'm interested in there's is and this was again that's something that really I was like I need to find out who Anna Kemsey is and I really want to ask her some questions because you disclosed about and I think it's really important for parents with local authority and decision making and I loved how you were a great friend to Katie and you were really when she said you know I wouldn't let that happen to Harvey and of course we would all say that as months we wouldn't let that happen and you really kindly and appropriately point out actually when local authority are involved a lot of that decision making is taken away from parents and you know it's a real problem so you know I did want to look at that so I want to identify kind of some strategies and behavior because quite often in situations where there's say for example with local government or local authority and they're someone's autistic and they're saying mum can't manage and all of a sudden mum was on her own against the big case and she loves her child she's the best thing for the baby no doubt but she presented in a really difficult situation with local authorities and speaking to lots of parents going through that having personal experience of some of that myself with regards to mental health etc I really wanted to create a set of simple terms like gaslighting so gaslighting describes a really complex behavior but I wanted to come up with simple terms and my aim is there's 10 simple terms to explain some really complex new behaviors that I'm noticing and just in general [Speaker 2] (27:02 - 27:19) Okay so it sounds like your book's going to be obviously a little bit about yourself talking to families but also lots of information that people can take on board any tips and any advice so it sounds like it's quite a bit of time to sort of fit it all together so that it makes sense [Speaker 1] (27:19 - 28:07) can I just ask you are you a mum yourself? Yeah absolutely so I'm a mum of two boys and for me being a mum is the most important thing in the world like I will dedicate so much time and love to young people in general because what's been highlighted with this pandemic I'm really concerned about the mental health of young people and I really want to promote strong families safe families open communication in families just families can look after each other better and being a mum is the most important thing for me and it's how I measure myself as a person although I try not to judge it's how I measure other people as well if I'm honest [Speaker 2] (28:07 - 28:28) So how old are you boys? So I've got a four year old and a very nearly 13 year old Okay so we start with teenagers then Sue Yes yes So can I ask if you don't mind how's lockdown impacted you as a family and how has it impacted you as an individual? [Speaker 1] (28:29 - 29:18) So lockdown like most families has been really disruptive and there's a there's a huge like repair process for a lot of people with just separation change adjustment But At home school? Pardon At home school? Part of that I've like I'm quite lucky so I've mentioned I've had a breakdown and stuff so I have support in place like with with my children and I have I'm really lucky to have a really strong support network and I want to say a lot of thanks to people in my personal life that have supported me and my family through these difficult years so thank you So yeah it's been it's been a lot of stress a lot of uncertainty but I'm really at a point now with it especially with spring coming I just love spring time of year [Speaker 2] (29:18 - 29:19) And it makes you feel better [Speaker 1] (29:19 - 30:23) It does and you know I'm solution focused and I'm really looking forward to the future and for me where I want where I want to use my voice and my influence is to empower our young generation who make me so excited because you know I believe in our young people so much and they're going to bring about so much positive change in the future and I want them all to see themselves as superheroes please don't feel that you know everybody blames you for like you're thoughtful because you know statistically you don't wear less masks it's just not true you're just as effective as everybody else if not more and for you know for mothers like me and you know for lots of other people you really matter and you know recovery for our young people from what is a shared trauma global trauma a really significant as well in terms of brain development so for my children and you know I'm monitoring them they seem to be managing okay with the COVID crisis and you know [Speaker 2] (30:23 - 30:31) but at the okay on learning online because there's so many families where their kids are really struggling with learning online they find it's so difficult [Speaker 1] (30:32 - 31:45) no it's online communication so I mean in so sometimes you know communication can be difficult and you know they obviously it's like for example with my own being used to school and you're just used to it and then all of a sudden it's like our young people have been given jobs they've now got to attend meetings and things like that so you know it takes a lot of adjustment and I think my approach to parenting especially to like my older boy like I just you know I've got so much like belief in him and I think the message to people who are perhaps thinking oh you know I'm not I'm part of this generation I'm not going to be able to get a job I would say the opposite is true like how experiences may be rich and like that's Madonna that's former Madonna so our experiences may be rich and that's how I measure people and actually these young people have got the gift of having early trauma lots of people might not experience trauma until 30s 40s and you know not you know they've they've they've had trauma early and they're going to recover from it like I said with my breakdown [Speaker 2] (31:45 - 32:11) you're talking about the COVID now the trauma so so basically what they're going to do is they hopefully will start having skills of like problems or dealing with you know things that have just been thrown at them because we weren't prepared were we it's just like one day we were acting all okay then the next thing we're in lockdown but now kids are back at school that's a good thing they could start mixing can't they with their friends and yeah and life's a bit more normal for them if you like [Speaker 1] (32:11 - 32:49) yeah I think it's going to create a really robust generation a really really robust generation of you know you know just young people growing into you know talented like adults and you know the impact of the pandemic has been awful of sinner suffering you see it on the street you in the supermarket and people just the stress and that you can see everywhere but the recovery I'm excited for the recovery because there's so much opportunity in that and anyone can write a book share their stories set up their YouTube and just got the skills [Speaker 2] (32:49 - 32:51) that they didn't even know they had [Speaker 1] (32:51 - 33:42) yeah so you know I tried to like have like an attitude of gratitude and look at the positives so you know that would be my message to young people like flip reverse there and you know use that as your unique selling point if you want if you're going up for a job against someone else you might have experience I would say to your interviewer actually you know I I think that that newness brings something much much better often and if I was at making decisions and I'd like people with autism this might not be agreed with but agreed with but I think people with autism would be great in jobs like you know decision making judges fairness and I'll ask you a little bit more about kind of those conversations with the police I think that's great that the police are engaging with this and saying actually you can some bosses have got this [Speaker 2] (33:42 - 34:27) because that is I think the thing is why I always find that people are interested in maybe talking about autism raising awareness or acceptance and usually the person who initiates it has been touched in some way so whether they've got a relative or you know their friends autistic and that's what I usually find and they're the people that help you the most now I hope you don't mind me asking this and you know you sent me a little bit information it's about your son's dad was diagnosed at age five in 1999 and he was never told by his mum he found out age 26 in 2020 how was that for him and that's down to you obviously if you want to share it don't worry [Speaker 1] (34:28 - 35:17) so what I'll say on that is that's true and that was difficult and I debated whether I mean I speak to you privately so I'm happy to share that but I debated whether I wanted to like discuss that on this and actually I decided to and I'm kind of I'm not going to comment on kind of his recovery of such because that's not my place to but I will talk about now I'm a woman and I'm a mother and I think we all have a shared responsibility to call out essentially in my view what is I would call that child of use and I'm actually I think that should be criminalised I think that's very that's also from what was that 21 yeah 21 years [Speaker 2] (35:17 - 35:24) especially because he was given the diagnosis and then his mum wasn't shared didn't share it with him with him is that what you're saying? [Speaker 1] (35:25 - 35:48) yeah she didn't share it with anybody perhaps other than maybe one of one of his siblings and some of her career people but you know that's not my business but you know that you know I'm just pleased after 21 years I hope she feels a sense of relief about that I'm angry as a mother because I really should have had that information because that's for me [Speaker 2] (35:48 - 35:57) as it was all those years ago there was still well there's still a stigma attached in some countries but I suppose because it was 1999 [Speaker 1] (35:58 - 38:19) yeah and again like you know I wanted to come out from kind of like a compassionate point of view now I'll be clear with the mum I really don't agree with that in fact I find I can't understand how someone could prevent that level of care from a child however we do have to look at it in context and you know this lady must have been very scared and that's a long time to keep a really difficult secret and you know it's for me it's less important to have experience perhaps more important my son's dad experience and his recovery because that's what's going to impact my child so I'm interested in that but I think the great thing about your all things autism is it's a brave platform and a safe platform for these discussions and there'll probably be a listener or two Anna that's that you know his heart's just dropped here in that thinking and you know I really want to deal with that sensitively and you know and I would say to these people and there'll be information that Anna will share and my DMs are always open if I can help or give advice yeah I would encourage these mums to you know in a safe way maybe speak to their doctor first and work out a way of doing that because as humans we make bad mistakes sometimes we might make them twice but if we can be accountable and when we say sorry if we mean it and if we change then there can be some things can be kind of redeemable some things aren't forgivable but you know there's a potential that this mum can make to heal that if herself and for us and I would encourage her to do that and you know we do understand because I then started researching into what it was like in the 90s and I watched a couple of documentaries and you know I think for this mum particularly her career which was kind of as like a doula which is like a private midwife so I think there would have been some conflict in how can I how can I sell myself to other mums as you know I can help you with your baby with my own son's got autism and I would you know perhaps there was some fear around that that she couldn't you know it would affect [Speaker 2] (38:20 - 39:10) I've spoken to lots of parents who've like that they've had to keep it quite especially like in the June culture as well where they were I've shared this before I was in a talk to over in the Indian culture yeah yeah there's like 150 mums we spoke to and they were worried about sharing it with everyone and then after we were sort of leaving the meeting there was about 10 mums that followed me out and felt that they just didn't want to share it in front of everyone of course they were worried about being judged I just want to touch upon you did three years training as a psychotherapist at university from 2017 to 2020 but you didn't graduate because it was a breakdown it's down to you whether you want to discuss that as well so how was it so how was it training as a psychotherapist at first what was that like? [Speaker 1] (39:11 - 40:55) Like most people in areas of work we come into that because we've been touched in some way by it I've had some excellent therapy myself over the years I'm not going to shout out my therapist but I have and I was like actually I can do this because as I said earlier and I loved it and I was really good like really good when I was working and I worked with a lot of women with a lot of trauma and I loved it but in the counseling profession there's a very high very very very high standard of ethics and I still take those ethics away from me and with the nature of I become a well subsequent ADHD diagnosis and I was kind of told in a very gentle and sensitive way I think probably about six months before the end that my tutor was indicating to me that I wasn't going to graduate but he wanted me to complete the course and to support me as much as possible and yes I studied at the IMO Institute in Exeter and they're excellent and the ethics that I was taught as part of that course is going to inform like well I think it will stay with me forever in my career so it's a really good foundation and because I wasn't able to complete the mental health matters I get the opportunity to reapply so I'm going to look at law even though I'm interested in journalism I want to study study law and then write What type of law? I'm interested in family law I'm interested in I am interested in criminal law but I would want to be defence not prosecution [Speaker 2] (40:55 - 41:24) Okay, so you've got some aspirations there so a lot going on it's trying to find the niche isn't it really that what suits you and what you feel that you can be good at and passionate at and driven at and enthusiastic at so you've got a lot to think about there where you think your next step's going to be so you're passionate about working with young people why is that? [Speaker 1] (41:27 - 42:39) well I guess just as a mother is it like mother's instinct we want to protect our young people and I think they've suffered a lot and I think adults have a shared responsibility to speak up for our young people in every way and that's calling out like calling out bullying supporting around that calling out every aspect practice in regards to safeguarding and we've all got a responsible to look after them and nurture them and I don't want this young generation growing up feeling alienated feeling disconnected because that's going to create real inner conflict and social problems so I think the more like diversity inclusivity that we create then the better for our future so like today think where we're going to be this time next year and I think organisations that are reaching out and educating are going to play a part in this change because I'm a positive person and I think in 10 years' time the government's going to be better things are going to be better and I'm in the minority in that view but I'm quite strong in it and you know one of my models is like you can't lose if you never quit so you know I always say [Speaker 2] (42:39 - 44:48) if you don't try you'll never know so we were talking you just touched upon bullying and there is not a bullying that's going on on social media and I just wanted to share this I have shared it a few times now but I'm going to say it again just in case there's anyone that's listening in that might be bullied on social media so here's some tips and advice for your experience offensive material on the subject of bullying on social media so if you are for example a disabled dependent are the subject of material on social media that is offence or malicious which has caused the sorry that is an offence or malicious which has caused the subject you or the disabled person alarm or distress this could be harassment and if it has occurred on two or more occasions references made to race or disability or any protected characteristic are seen to aggravate any potential offence so what should be done so firstly contact the social media platform so whether it's Twitter Instagram or Facebook question and report the matter and ask them to take action contact the police now a lot of people don't want to contact the police but what you can do is you can do online but perhaps the best thing to do if you want to and if you're able is to go to the police station with copies of all relevant documents so i.e the tweets the posts etc get a crime number and ask for the contact details of the officer who's going to be assigned to this matter when you contact the officer be polite but be persistent the police have the means to identify persons making posts there are a range of actions open to the police against persons who post such material they can serve them with a harassment warning notice or if the harassment persists or in a serious case the person involved could face prosecution please be kind everyone life is hard enough as it is i keep sharing on social media without any added stress for individuals so i just want i have shared that quite a few times but just to keep reminding people you know please you can either block the person or if it's continuing you please report it you know these are tough times and there are a lot of people that they're not very nice and saying not nice things what's that thing on the Bambi film? you can't say nothing nice say nothing at all [Speaker 1] (44:49 - 45:19) absolutely and that's really important and you know and challenging fully and in an appropriate way is absolutely essential because like you say these like it doesn't matter what your age whether you're young people or otherwise like any anything that's you know intentionally molested or persistent we really need to be mindful and also it's and is that new? is that updated? because that's quite good and robust advice does that come from something recently? [Speaker 2] (45:19 - 45:35) well my husband does a lot of research of being a barrister so he's had some people that have actually approached him whether it's to be doing with discrimination in the workplace or bullying online so he has actually researched it and that's the most up-to-date that he's found so far [Speaker 1] (45:35 - 47:23) brilliant yeah that's excellent that's really robust and i've made some notes on that and i would say as well because you know lots of people can feel like oh i don't want to go to the peace but i would take like a zero tolerance approach like you call it out immediately there can be opportunity for result because we sometimes like i see comments and it gets called out as trolling and you know i've done it myself before i've made a comment and i'm like oh you know that wasn't really that nice and then when i can reflect i can be like do you know what and then i'll i can mess with the person and apologize and there is a degree of you know people can kind of do it just through they'll have their bad day and stress but that's that's very different to the persistent bullying and really and all bullying even that early stuff all needs to be called out and i would say to anyone hesitant to go to police let me tell you now if someone's bullying you and that is affecting your mental health then please report it because it's important that you're safe and don't be afraid because that's that individual's consequences because it was them that posted that message that's not your consequences it's your responsibility to safeguard yourself and you absolutely have the right to do that and do it and and you know and and know that there are people like for example and this has been and she's just mentioned and lots of others that care and we're working on this and we want to make this better for you so you know follow that and then that's helping with statistics we can get more of a scale of the problem because i can't remember whether i said it to you earlier or i said it to somebody else but with suicide i wonder what's the number of suicide statistics against the number of covid deaths and bullying for children while they've not been at school imagine investigating that it's probably increased over 50 percent [Speaker 2] (47:24 - 48:07) we've worked with a charity called CLASP and Kenny who's the founder of CLASP is to do with suicide prevention because he had mental health problems and trying to commit suicide then he's obviously now feels that he wants to support other people that were feeling the same way as he does so if people want to check out the CLASP charity website it's fantastic we've done a few sponsored walks and even Angela joined in we did like 10 mile walk for CLASP so check out that website there's lots and lots of information on there so Lois you said you've got some friends who are autistic so tell me about them and about your relationship you just share what you feel comfortable with [Speaker 1] (48:07 - 48:53) yeah so i'm going to use this opportunity if it's okay to talk about so i met her through Instagram so to any young person Molly Mayhem ADHD she's excellent she's a young person and she speaks about ADHD and she is so she's so honest with her experience and like i got in contact with her and i was like please rework with me i think she's absolutely brilliant and you know she's of that age group and i think she's so brave as well to be in an era and i'm not criticizing young people but in an era of there was an i use it it was myself so like in an era of social media where it's like perfect brows and nails and all this like she's she's her own girl and she really is very very brave to be [Speaker 2] (48:53 - 48:55) she has autism as well or just ADHD [Speaker 1] (48:55 - 48:57) she has both autism and ADHD [Speaker 2] (48:58 - 49:00) okay and she's written a book and what's it called [Speaker 1] (49:00 - 50:26) yeah so ADHD and me Molly Brooks Dredge she's called so at Molly mayhem ADHD youtube twitter and stuff but for young people and for mums as well so i would sit down with my children and watch Molly because she's got that great opportunity of being a young person but old enough to have great wisdom with what she's talking about but young enough to do it in a relatable way to young people and you know even as you know other people i think you know will be really educational and she's really passionate about helping her teachers and stuff and you know she's only 22 and actually going back to you mentioned it earlier with your with the nomination and so when i when i got in contact with you initially found out about that and i read the categories and there wasn't anything to say that you're not allowed to tell someone if you've nominated them so i ended up not being very good at keeping the secret and i said to molly and you know what i think she's got a really excellent chance and i sent you i sent you a copy of that book for your birthday so i hope you enjoy that and also that's for the boys as well so is it thank you no problem at all and so yeah so i've got i've got other friends with autism obviously molly's public about her diagnosis so you know yeah okay [Speaker 2] (50:26 - 50:30) you don't have to share what their names are anything but how do you get on together [Speaker 1] (50:30 - 51:13) accidentally and yeah brilliant and down along the but like the best people ever i was thinking to myself you know like so with the with the concept of looking on the labels if my label of ADHD so say for example got a sticker on me now on my chest ADHD and someone said oh do you know what Lois actually we're going to take your ADHD problem away i would not give up i really wouldn't and i think there's the assumption and that's not right for everybody and and if that's not how you feel that's okay as well but when it comes to labels you can embrace them you can challenge them you can explore them you can leave them for a while you can do whatever you need to do and all of that's okay [Speaker 2] (51:13 - 51:40) okay so let's talk about what you do for yourself because i'm i used to be terrible about doing stuff for me i'm always like really focused on what i'm to be fair i'm still a bit terrible but it's always about being focused but for our own mental health and for our own well-being so before lockdown what did you you used to do for you just for you not for the kids not for anyone just for you what did you do to help yourself relax [Speaker 1] (51:40 - 52:16) do you know what interestingly given given the fact that i had a breakdown arguably i didn't do enough and what what i've learned from that is you know like i say that pause button i really do use that and you said as well about how parents are asking you like about self-esteem and let me know i've got some notes here and like some of some how i would say with that is you know learn learn your triggers and become be like be resilient sorry i was just like that's the attention deficit i can't remember the original question i'm trying to try to write it down [Speaker 2] (52:16 - 52:25) see what i'm asking you is what did you do to have lockdown to help you relax and feel on on mental health and well-being [Speaker 1] (52:25 - 53:34) yeah so like i say i obviously didn't do enough hence having a breakdown so very much now i'm mindful of i have to self-care and sometimes the best advice i can give to whether it's a friend or someone i'm helping is up your self-care so in times of distress when you feel angry at yourself the most up your self-care how does that mean self-care to you yeah so i like i like reading i like and this may i guess i can relate to you in this sense because i you know i i know that you are all encompassed with with all of your work which is which is great but i actually find that self-care because we're all in our individual ways healing from trauma and i i am i'm no different to a lot of people in that sense and i genuinely feel like you know it helps me so i would argue that me helping others is self-care and that i'm in a different position of robustness like i say you know i've got the label of breakdown but i've also got breakdown recovery which i like to emphasize a little bit more and you know just just really [Speaker 2] (53:34 - 53:38) talk about the pause button what does that mean pause button i don't understand what you mean [Speaker 1] (53:38 - 54:43) so i think of it so you're in a situation you've got like five things going on that you need done by today you've forgotten to call someone you're feeling bad because you've forgotten to text someone back you've got all this going on in your mind and you just hit the pause button and like breathe in and we talk about really deep breathing and it really works and and and you so you do for deep breathing then so i will literally just just sit down and just like another person that your listeners might be interested in is Emma Kenny and i really recommend her she does a live clinic 8 30s interactive which means that parents can all get involved and ask questions and it's a great place for support for parents and children with all problems and she really talks about that so you take i'm not going to do it now but she takes like you take a really deep breath in and then you hold it and it's like you hold for five and then it's out for four but neurologically what that does this website so people want to check it out so she's called Emma Kenny she's the media psychologist so [Speaker 2] (54:43 - 54:45) so that k e double n y [Speaker 1] (54:45 - 55:06) yeah Emma Kenny she's excellent and you know similar to obviously you with with this it's a really good means for parents to connect with like-minded mothers families that talk frankly and in a safe platform about real problems that we face and yeah so [Speaker 2] (55:08 - 55:16) if people want to check you out because i'm just mindful of that we haven't got much time left if people want to find you on social media where can they find you Lois [Speaker 1] (55:17 - 55:28) so people can find me on social media so Twitter so i'm becoming more i've only been on it since really the beginning of the project but i'm learning it a bit more so that's at lowest diamond UK [Speaker 2] (55:28 - 55:31) the lowest spell L O I S so diamond [Speaker 1] (55:32 - 56:01) yep diamond is in a diamond so say that again yeah at lowest diamond UK and then capital L for lowest diamond and capital for UK so that's Twitter Instagram is questions of the diamond that's my personal one and at looking beyond the labels UK also Instagram is the project one and that's open viewing so [Speaker 2] (56:02 - 56:07) set up a website but it's just on a hold at the moment because you're working on it is that right [Speaker 1] (56:07 - 56:23) but what i also do so i've set up so i've touched briefly on some of the investigations and i've also set up a parents review so we've got my looking on the labels i do a weekly newsletter in fact i meant to publish it before the thingy i forgot understandably [Speaker 2] (56:23 - 56:25) you can put it on the charity website [Speaker 1] (56:25 - 56:46) yeah that's great so i just try and do a weekly newsletter and i keep it really simple simple format two pages we do project communications of the week so we've featured you on there before and i do a book recommendation of the week i talk three or four points about the project three or four projects about the review and i just try and keep it simple and keep it consistent and it's just yeah so [Speaker 2] (56:46 - 58:13) so if people are interested Lois is going to write an article and it's going to be on our charity website so just to remind you it's www.anna kennedy online.com so that will be on the charity website all this week and then if you're if you miss the interview or you want you know sometimes people tune in like halfway through and then i'll say oh i've missed the first half you can always listen every day so it's one o'clock every day and then one o'clock in the morning and then it becomes a podcast and then it goes on our charity website so if you would like to be a speaker on women's radio station talking all things autism please contact me at Anna Kennedy online i am booked up until the middle or end of June i think it is there's so many people that would like to chat to me and tell me about you know they're either their diagnosis or a project that they're doing or you know whatever it is that you want to chat to me about so please contact the charity website and then Lisa will give you a date and then you can do what Lois is doing today so Lois i just wanted to say thank you very much for chatting to me today and it's been great listening to you and chatting to me about all the projects that you want to do and i'd like a copy of your looking beyond the labels book or whatever it is that you're going to call it's finally been produced so yeah that would be fantastic to find out about it now the early starts with you [Speaker 1] (58:13 - 59:03) thank you very much Anna and can i just say thank you for being an inspirational woman and mother to so many of us thank you because you know another really good thing to do is go be drawn to women you know courageous women strong women network with them and when you got back to me using my reaction i had to do breathing exercises to yeah and you know that'll be really you know that's my really good advice connect with people that inspire you my dms are always open i will read every email i tried to read everything that's sent to me lots of people send me cases and stuff so you know please if anyone's read this has been been like oh i really would like to ask her this message me and confidentiality is something assured with anyone that's involved with my projects i fully uphold that so thank you [Speaker 2] (59:04 - 59:37) there'll be links to what lewis is doing on the charity website because i know sometimes when you're looking for a pen or whatever it is now that you know that we've chatted about so she will put the links on her article on the charity website i just want to say all the best to you lewis keep well keep safe and all the best to your family and everyone just take it one day at a time we can see right at the end of the tunnel we're nearly there absolutely so bye everyone thank you thank you to you lewis thank you take care thank you bye