Healing Image Hi With Eva May – Nevo Burrel, FIPI, Federation Of Image Professionals

Hello. Welcome to another in my series of Healing Image High for the women's radio station. This is Eva May, and I am absolutely delighted to have a guest to speak with us today called Nevo Burrell. And I was put in contact with Nevo when I was. Well, it's in 2019. So before COVID I'd actually been asked to speak as a guest at the annual conference for an organization called Phippy, which is the Federation of Image Professionals International. It was a great honor to go along to the conference. I wasn't. I didn't quite know what to expect. The person who introduced me to Phippy and to the conference was Karen Franklin, MBE, who was a person that helped me first when I was looking at Healing Image and how to get some help from makeup and beauty professionals for myself. So following a major breakdown that I had and also because of the trauma that I suffered, so I'd never heard of Phippy before, and I went along to the conference. I prepared some things, but the thing that I hadn't actually prepared was what to wear and when you think you're going to stand in front of a room full of image professional consultants who are in the job. And I imagined, and I was right, they all looked absolutely incredible for somebody like me, speaking to them about image and trauma. My sort of. The thing that got through me the most was what was I going to wear. But anyway, I got there, I turned up and I had the most amazing welcome. I learned an awful lot from other speakers and everybody was so nice to me and they understood sort of my story. So now FUPI has been around and it does have consultants, members of. Or it's been for 30 years. And they are in the UK, Europe, they're in Asia, and it's a. It's a really quite a large organization. So would you like to. Hello. And thank you so much for being here. I mean, I've met you. I've had that pleasure. And we've chatted quite a few times as well. So could you explain a little bit about Phippy and the organization, the members and how it works and what sort of resources and how people could either contact members if they would like some. Some help, or maybe even be interested to find out more and join Phippy. Yes. Good afternoon. Ever May. And thank you so much for inviting me. Yes. I always enjoyed our chats. Yes, yes. Always nice and relaxed and comfortable. Thank you so much. Now, where did that come from? Excuse me? I don't think that is. Oh, I think modern technology, we might get the Odd thing, but yes, yes, I suppose. Yeah, that can be snipped out anyhow. Yeah. So fippy, the Federation of Image Professionals International, been around for about 30 years and we have associates and, you know, masters and members. So FIPPY is a group that has image consultants, stylists, beauty professionals, hair professionals as well. And we have, you know, support for the members, you know, in terms of training. We provide training, we have, you know, annual conferences and we have webinars, you know, monthly for covering various topics. And aside from that, we have the mentoring program and then we have the master's program as well. So we believe in continuous development. So we give training, we give support. We have a thriving Facebook group where there's support for one another. So you can sort of send questions, ask for help within the group and you get answers. And Phippi is a recognized institution, so we are accredited. We have training programs. So we have training providers, I think a few training providers that train new image professionals. And yes, then of course there's opportunities in terms of the training program, education program, there's sort of industry updates, so we know what is happening within the industry. So when young professionals come in, they learn a lot. Even experienced ones give and exchange knowledge. So it's a vibrant face. It's a fast changing industry, isn't it, that you're in? Not just with the fact that fashions and styles and things change, but we are now very concerned and focused on sustainability. I think that it's really, really important to highlight that members of Phippy are supported, like you're saying, with a mentoring program. It is a global support network and sharing of information. So everybody. And the master's course that you have and with the mentoring, you know, you are actually striving all the time to raise standards and to get information out there. So, I mean, for me, I think anybody who would like some help when I came to meet your members, you're so knowledgeable, you know, you're trained and like you say, you have your monthly webinars, so it's not like you're a group of influencers. You're not just sort of popular. Absolutely not. Are professionals. Because I have professionals. Yeah, you are. And you do look amazing on Instagram, but thank you. Lovely pop of colour. But what you have the edge on them all is that you've got the training and I think that that's really, really important, especially in this day and age. And with our icon to you via, you know, having. I tried to get my makeup done on, on a department store shop Floor. And it didn't work for me. It might work for other people but I was going from a place of sort of not a good very place but place for my mental health. So certainly sitting really now I look back and I think why did I not realize it was, you know, it must have been some sort of idiot to even dream that sitting on, on this busy Saturday to try learn how to do my makeup would have been a good idea. And it wasn't. So I've now found you guys. So you're, you have a directory on the Phippy website. So and everybody is sort of trained. So you've got your, you do hairs, hair, beauty. Yeah, we have people who are, yes, specialized in that. So some people I think we've had, you know, maybe headdressers that decided to train, you know, and add image consultancy to their, you know, strings or to their bows I suppose. And yeah, so when, when we actually are trained, we trained on you know, color analysis, styling, looking at proportions, scales, hair, makeup and all those sort of things. But so we touch on those things so we know basics of what to do or how to perhaps point, give advice in terms of the shape, the hairstyle for the shape of face, for example and then point the people if they need to do anything with the hair to actual hair specialist professionals in color styling skill directly. And I know that your, because we've had chat that your personal personally you were from a very young age interested in fashion and style but kind of realized that you would be actually become a, an image consultant and then become the event organization, you know, being elected on the board. So, so what was your sort of early experience then of being interested in fashion? Ah, yes, gosh, my early experience. My mom, in fact my parents, but especially my mom was very, very stylish and always ensured that you know, before stepping out anywhere, be it to school, to the shops, to you know, events that we all were always well turned out, you know, clean and turned out, you know, well turned out. And she had, she always had taste. So the things that she sort of purchased for us or made for us, you know, we're very, very stylish, different and fitted nicely because they were made for us. It's not, you know, like in this part of the world. I'm talking about Nigeria in those days, you know, you had tailors who you know, were well trained in, you know, pattern cutting. They cut your stuff for you and made it for you. And they were not as, as expensive as of course they go into the couture here you know, having new things here, I think we kind of, you know, had it upside down and back then, things have changed somewhat now, but back then having a tailor make your clothes for you was much more cheaper than actually going to purchase ready made stuff. Because ready made stuff came from, you know, abroad. We traveled. Yeah. Yes. So our clothes fitted nicely and, you know, we're stylish, so we've made our own styles anyhow. And I have four brothers and I sort of had this thing about getting with my brother's trousers or shirts or something and fusing with mine and, you know, just making something, you know, turning out something completely different. And people always that, that caught people's eyes and people sort of, you know, commented on how good my sort of things were and began to ask me how, you know, how I did, you know, what I did. So I would say I was already an image consultant stylist even before I knew there was a name for it. So how old were you when you were doing this then? Oh, God, I was probably about 10. Oh, really? Yes, yes, yes. You know, and I, I had, you know, my, my peers, you know, my, my parents were of modest means, very modest means. So my, my peers, you know, had parents who were sort of, you know, well, to do financially. And so they would, you know, have the ready made clothes. They would have all those things yet, you know, because they, I guess, followed trends. At that time I always looked different and you know, so therefore the attention, you know, moved down to what I was wearing because they were just. Purely because they were different. And so people began to, so friends, family, even, you know, my brothers, you know, began to ask me, you know, how I did whatever I was doing. So I'd give little, I would just put things together. And so fast forward later when I came back to the uk, I still had that desire to help people look their best. And I then realized I could, you know, go and work in retail to satisfy that, I guess, desire to do so in Nigeria. Spending other people's money. Yes. Your clothes and your brother's clothes. You were a bit of a sort of a fashion disruptor in a way anyway. Yes, you can say that. Realizing that's great and that then gave you the sort of the spark and the feedback from people to come and to actually satisfy, like your interest in style. That's pretty amazing. Have that. Yeah. And you know, coming to the retail, I worked in the concession, Selfridges, many, many moons ago. And it so happened that somebody came in to look for an outfit to go to an event. And she picked some items that I didn't, you know, think looked, you know, great on her, but my peers then and some of the customers in there thought, you know, she looked alright. But I then suggested to her that we had some new things in and I had the things I had in mind to give to her. So thankfully she was open to that suggestion. So I got, you know, the items for her. She looked at them and said she didn't even see them. And even if she had seen them, she wouldn't have picked them because they were not what she would normally go for. So anyway, thankfully she was gracious, she tried them on and she stepped out, she saw herself in the mirror, everyone saw and that was the done deal. She straight away, she bought those items. And the strangest thing was when she left and then came back a few weeks later and thanked me and at this point I was thinking, who are you? I don't remember this. She reminded me. And then, of course, I then remembered it was the event. So she then said, I asked her how the event went and she said she met someone. And I thought, you know, so that was a very strange thing for me to hear, you know, that she, you know, she came, she got new athletes, she went out and in this event where she wasn't expecting to meet anyone, some, you know, she met someone. So which, you know, meant that she was seen for the first time, not the clothes we're seeing, but she was. Yeah, absolutely. And she felt confident as well. And happy in it. Exactly. She felt confident, she felt like herself, she felt great. She, you know, was comfortable, she didn't blend into the wall as, you know, the items that she picked, that's what they would have done for her, you know, whereas at this point, she, the person came out and was seen. And again, as you said, she confident. And I believe in, you know, being confident in your outfit, being comfortable in your outfit, feeling like yourself in the clothes that you wear. And when I, when I work with the image consultants that helped me. They were, I mean, the way they spoke to me and the information that I learned from them because I really like learning new things from people. So that was really, really good. But they were so very clever in not, well, not making me wear more of the same, but not. We're trained. Because I, whenever I buy anything now, I have it in my head, do I already have this similar. Is this why I am buying this? Because I like it, it's familiar, it's safe, it's more. But then I do want to try. Sometimes I try things that are just not going to be appropriate for me to wear anywhere, but I want to. I just want to try it on because. Exactly. It's, it's part of fun. It's something that I'm now enjoying, but they've taught me and the skills that I use now are to try something different and to really think, like, what I'm wearing it for, is it comfortable? And I don't want to keep duplicating because fashion, well, for me it's changes and I want it to keep changing. Even though I'm like 56, I still think that I have, you know, I can look at. Look at new things and try new things. Absolutely. And look in the mirror and okay, it can be a hit, could be a miss. But. But at least you tried. Yeah, exactly. At least I tried, you know, I mean, I'm 55 as well. Just turn 55, you know, and I, I wear all kinds of things, you know, as long as, you know, they suit. But I try different styles. I see things. And I feel like sometimes every, you know, few years or so, something in the. I think as human beings, we evolve anyway, so something sort of, you know, changes and, you know, I veer towards sort of trying new things. I see new, I don't know, fabric styles and things like that. And I buy, you know, and, and, and of course, you know, when I say I buy, I buy things that I use. I don't buy things that I use once and throw away. My clothes last a very, very long time. I have outfits, I have dresses. I have a dress actually and something else that over 30 years old, so. Which I still wear. Yeah, I've got, I've got a few of those as well myself. But if you bought. When you see what we bought sort of 30 years ago, they were really. Well, and they were actually quite. They were expensive. Yes. When I look, I'm, you know, I've got two, two girls and that. Well, they can, they can buy an outfit for very little. Well, what I would consider to be not a lot of money really, compared to when I was their age, things would have cost a lot more. But they are now thinking about more in terms of sustainability and buying something that's a little bit more expensive or. And keeping it for longer. Like, I think they're understanding now sort of classic pieces. But these are quite difficult for young people because there has been this massive sort of access available to relatively, you know, to fast fashion and inexpensive. Fast. Yeah. This is not the way for us to go. So absolutely not. But then on the other hand, they don't want to be wearing the same thing every day or be safe. But however, however they could go to charity shops which I hear now lots of young people are beginning to patronize vintage shops. You know, they're beginning. They're sort of heavily into vintage shopping now. Yeah, I mean there's still, you know, a huge percentage that still deal in fast fashion. So. I understand. I mean it's because you, I guess shop according to your means. So some people go to the fast fashion business purely because that is all they can afford. And some people. And then they look after those items and then others go there because it's the latest job today, tomorrow and they like that, you know, high of getting new styles or items every week or every two weeks. So I can't, you know, I wish, you know, there was not that huge turnover in the cheap fashion because of those who actually have not the buying power. So we need to sort of, you know, think about those people as well because it may, if you wanted them, for example to purchase, you know, much better quality items, it will take them a long time to, you know, save that money to, to do that if they are maybe not working to the point of, you know, using maybe a credit card and paying off at the end of the month, you know. Exactly. So for those sort of people, I kind of understand, you know, that people need to at least present, be presentable. But I wish, you know, there wasn't this fast weekly or daily drop. So how have I. It works? I didn't know. Well, you know, I come in healing image high. This series for this for the women's radio station is. It was me sort of coming along with mental health issues. And I must say that now I can leave the house because I didn't leave the house for four years now can. That's good. But if I go to that. Yeah. Well that I do feel quite happy. You know, it can be kind of a hit. So. But I don't want to get into debt. So you have to be. And now you've got all these like buy now, pay later. I know, I see them exactly. There is a. Apparently a soft credit search but I think just to be so, so careful. And when I had like Karen Franklin here with Jane Galpin who's, who's a stylist and they work together really well, they came to my house. Well, I mean I was a bit worried about what I wore to your conference but when they my house I was pretty anxious that they might say that there was nothing that I could possibly work with, but they were. They sort of pull pieces out of my wardrobe that I've had for ages. And they said, well, this is like, this is a really good piece. Do this with it. Oh, that will go. That, that. And it was, you know, I do have, and I'm sure a lot of people do have things that, with the help of somebody like yourself, could actually say, yeah, yeah, I can wear that and not look at the age of the garment at all, because that's irrelevant. So I know fashions, you know, do change, but you've got some classes, so what exactly. And. And I. Oh, sorry. I. I believe in shopping in your wardrobe as well as, you know, you know, going out to buy. I like that. Go shopping in your wardrobe. Karen said that she likes to think of some of her clothes. They're friends. So, like, you know, like when she goes out for this occasion, she'll see those friends or when she goes somewhere else. And I started to think about it a little bit like that too, because, yeah, friends, friends, nice friends. So when you see people. So people come to you for some help, do you go to their home or do you take them out shopping? Or is it a variety or is it usually for, like an event or is it generally, you know, a sort of a wardrobe clear out and a few. And some suggestions of what you could do and what you could add if there's some gaps. How does it work? It's a variety. It's a variety. I mean, I go to consultations because I, you know, do the styling and, you know, look at the wardrobe as well. So I tend to go over to them. So I do that. I go to them. I can take them shopping. I will do online shopping as well and, and advice on wardrobe audits or clearance or, you know, like a client, for example, I had a little while ago, you know, a very huge wardrobe. She had. She bought whole outfits. This is quite a while back now. She bought whole outfits. So she didn't know how to combine, you know, she didn't know she could wear something from this set with something from the other side, you know, so everything. She had this full set that she, you know, would wear like. So where did I want, like that, wear like that. So I helped by sort of, you know, clear weeding out the things that were, you know, were no longer useful. We worked together, looked at everything and then with what was left, I then, you know, put various combinations together for her, you know, that she could then go in and try. And so when I put, for example, put you know, certain items together and handed them to her, she looked at them as though, really, will this work? I said, yeah, this can try them on. And she tried them on, you know, including shoes and all that. And she went. It was only when she put those items on and looked in the mirror that could she see that they actually went well. But looking at them on the hangers, in fact she just sort of, you know, got frazzled. Yeah, sometimes I think it's difficult and I think, well, personally from lockdown, you know, I wasn't going to the hairdresser and looking in magazines, you know, because I quite like that when I sit there. So your sort of access to what's going on with fashion changed and also the necessity of, you know, dressing up, that definitely changed big time. And yeah, so it was comfy clothes and everything, wasn't it? But it's. Yeah, I mean I've got my, my daughter's graduation in two days. I haven't decided what to wear yet. But it will be fine. I'm not worried about it at all. It will be fine. But you know, before I had them help, I think I, I would have gone out. So the graduation is in two days time so I know that I've got, depending on the weather, two or three things that are, you know, going to be the one things. But when I wear it, I will be looking at me in it. Whereas before I got some help I maybe wore something, you know, that was probably okay, but I only saw that outfit. I did not see the whole of you. It took me to have some conversation and you know, a nice conversation like, you know, how we talk and to get some skills to listen. For me to actually get to that point, which I think is a, it's a really, it's a really great place to be. I also, I found sometimes I get quite frustrated when I go into shops and they, they don't have all the sizing in because I don't, I don't really want, I'd rather shop local than buy online. Yeah, but they need to have the stuff in and I find buying online is. It can take you forever. So depends, I suppose. Yeah, well, there's so much choice so. Yeah, I mean you can buy from anywhere in the world. Yeah, if I want to go into a shop then I know at the moment it's probably distribution issues and trying to get stock levels and stuff like that that's going to happen. But yeah, you know, sometimes I think, oh, I really like to try that on, but they don't have it in my size, so I look for something else. But I think to have someone like you, and if you were probably working with me at home, I probably would have stuff in my wardrobe that I could use more that I'm not using because now we've been allowed out, it's like, yay. Really, I need to look in my wardrobe first and then go out. The other thing that I found you guys really useful for was traveling wardrobes. Because you don't need to take huge amount with you, do you? You can. Exactly that. Yeah. So what are your tips for packing? Now that we can travel a little bit. Now we can travel again. Oh, God, yes. I think, you know, I suppose, you know, depending on where you're going, you know, if it's, you know. Yeah, depending. But I think generally people are going out for, you know, summer holidays or going somewhere nice and hot to, you know, enjoy the warmth and get some vitamin D. Proper vitamin D. Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, so ladies, we're talking, you know, so it's, you know, address is sort of a nice. A cotton dress for that you can wear, you know, during the day you can dress up or down, you know, so it's something that you could just, you know, put a little shawl over. If the temperature gets slightly cooler, you have that. So I think the best things to have is, you know, take a pair of trousers, you know, be jeans or something, but very, very light fabric so that. Yeah, so a light jeans or cotton trousers or chinos or something like that. Cotton dress. So for daytime, some T shirts or tops or blouses and maybe. So depending on how. So if you're going for what, a week or so, I think you probably need the tops for every day to change because you would be, you know, perspire depending on what you're doing and all that. But you don't need many trousers or skirts. So, you know, pair of jeans, pair of other normal trousers, a skirt, short and long skirt and a dress. Jewelry again. So for accessorizing. So nice, brilliant, fantastic jewelry. If you take, you know, a few delicate necklaces and then take some sort of chunky ones. Earrings. Exactly. Lots of earrings. Because they don't take much space in your bag. So they don't take much space. And they do have a big impact, don't they? On how. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. Hats, hair accessories, hair bands, bangles, rings. Then as for shoes, so take sandals, take pair of wedges if you like, you know, walking. So the wedges can take you to the evening as well because they look elegant and they have a little, you know, they elevate you a little. So flat sandals, slip on shoes, you know, for walking, depending on how you go. And if you're going sort of rugged type walking, then take the appropriate shoes as well. A cardigan or two. So daytime, on evening, one that can fold really small into, you know, spaces. So two cardigans, the jacket. Quite good things now, can't you? That fold up quite small. Exactly. That don't actually take up and they don't crease the fabrics and so. Exactly, exactly. I mean, I'm trying to wrap mine just in one of those cabin bags because you don't actually need like loads and loads and loads, do you? But if you've got the skills. And I think what you mentioned there, with accessorizing, I mean, you're. You know, when I met you a few weeks ago, you were like this. Well, we kind of got our locations wrong, didn't we? Yeah. Oh, God, yes, I remember. Yes. And we actually weren't that far away, really. But then I. It was just like pop of colour across the road. That was your. You with all your lovely accessories. So I think. Yeah, accessories I'm not very good at. It's taken me a still time actually to try and do that. I don't think I'm quite brave to you with it. I go a little bit more sort of. No, not. I've not gone for big accessories just yet. But you have a fantastic earring on that day. Did I? Yes. Gold. The gold earring. My little hook things. So now, when we met in London, because I think this is really important to talk about, is that we actually went to an exhibition, something that you had taken part in, but not as an image consultant, you'd actually taken part of this as somebody who'd been diagnosed and gone through treatment for breast cancer. And it was an exhibition at Francis Crick center where you had been on the panels as a patient to discuss treatments and how you felt with the people who were working towards your medical care and your scientists behind that too. So, I mean, it was. It was really, you know, very interesting. And in fact, there was an awful lot of use of different colors there, which I really liked. I know we wrote some little notes, didn't we, on some streamers and, you know, I went for my favorite color and. Yeah, so. So I think color is important in all sorts of places, so. And then we were talking about. You've been an image professional for a long Time. And then you got this diagnosis. And so everything about your appearance has always been sort of very. Something that you've been able to do. I wouldn't like to say take for granted, but you're obviously naturally. You're good at it. You were from a young age, you've trained in it, you've worked with people and then you found yourself in this situation, which. Well, could you talk to us a little bit about, you know, how's that impacted on you and how you saw yourself and so sort of the change that you had to go through now that you were on. Well, thankfully, that's. It's. Is it nine years ago? Yes. Yeah, nine years ago, I think. Yeah, nine years ago into the 10th. I think it'll be the 10th this year, if I'm not mistaken. Right. Well, that's just incredible. It's amazing. So, yeah, then. And you know, did it. It did impact on your image and how you felt about yourself? Yes. So, gosh, yeah. Long term. Yeah. So actually, we start from the beginning for this. So in 2012, I was diagnosed, I think around June with breast cancer. And I then had a lumpectomy and. And followed by a month of radiotherapy treatment. And following that, I was put on the drug called Tamoxifen for five years. It was strange thing how I sort of discovered this lump. I was talking to my husband at the time, at that point about something, and I wanted him to send me some information via email. So I pointed at the file that made me sort of lean over him and I was going to stand back upright and my thumb, right thumb brushed the top of my breast and I felt something strange. I gasped at that point and my husband asked me what the matter was and I said nothing. So I moved away from where he was. I went into the bedroom and at that point I was standing upright. I tried to locate the lump, I couldn't find it. So I leant forward again and there it was. And in my mind I thought, oh, God. Because I'd already. I asked a GP long time ago, you know, when people said when they found lumps on people, what did the lump feel like? And they described it as a hard, like a frozen pee and blah, blah, blah. And that was what I felt. And I thought, oh, God. In my mind I thinking, well, I hope it's not too bad, you know, I felt that that was the case, but that it was. It was going to be cancer, but I was hoping that it wasn't, you know, bad as in aggressive or late, you know, so Anyway, so that was a Sunday evening. So I thought to myself I was going to, you know, phone my doctor the next day, which was a Monday, Monday was so busy I forgot. And Tuesday around lunchtime, I remembered. So I phoned and was told that my all the doctors were fully booked. And I said to them, look, I found a lump in my breast and was invited to go in, sit and wait until they finished with their patients. So I went in straight, I told my manager and then left the office, went and waited. Eventually I was seen and the doctor was looking for the lump and I explained to him how I found it. So I did that motion again and there it was. And he kind of made a face to say gosh, this feels very strange, I haven't seen anyone like this before. But anyway, I'll send you to hospital. So, so he referred me and within a few days I got a call from Wheaton. Yeah, I got a call from within the hospital and I went in, saw the consultants and who kind of made the same face that this is a strange thing, sent me to imaging. Unfortunately at that time, because at the time I went, they had closed so I had to go back the next day the radiographer did the same thing and then decided that she was going to take do a biopsy. And I said to her, had you not suggest that I would have requested it myself. So fine, so we're in agreement. She, she took samples from three locations and then I went in, went back the following week and saw that, I mean I felt that that was the case especially when the nurses eyes flickered and then I was then sent to an area where there were red chairs. For some strange reason I just felt fine. This is what they did for people who, you know, had some problems. Anyway, fast forward it got to my turn, I got called in and so backslide a bit. I didn't tell my husband, you know, the whole thing that was going on until the night before. I was going to get the results of the biopsy which understandably he was upset and I, of course I apologize in my mind. I mean I'm the kind of person, I like to get the information first before disseminating something to people because I didn't want people to be worrying. Yeah, I am not a warrior as such in that sense. I want to kind of calmly go through the, you know, whatever until I, you know, sort it out and then tell people if I need, you know, help desperately. Of course I would ask for help. And yeah, so my husband is a warrior and I didn't Want to be worried as well. And then having him worrying about me, it was that. That would have driven me mad. So I apologize, you know, and I said to him, because he was going to, he. And he had to, he had lots of meetings the following day. So I said, well, go to. Go into the office, I'll call you, depending on whichever way the results go. Anyway, I called him eventually to let him know he came around, he was supportive and I went for my pre operations checks. Did that, then have the operation, I think the following day or a few days later, I can't remember, but it was within a week anyway. So from discovery of the lump to the operation, it felt, I think it was probably within three weeks. So it was quite quick. Anyway, so that did the operation, had the radiotherapy. And so for the radiotherapy I was going into the hospital every day. And then I then got discharged once I wanted to finish treatment and said, you know, see you in three months time. I was jubilant because I didn't. Which meant that I didn't have to go into hospital every day, you know, quite exhausting thing, you know, seven days a week. No. Yeah, I think it was seven days a week. Yeah, it was every day, yeah, for 28 days. Yes, I was going and. Yeah. So day one, after the. After radiotherapy, I was happy. Day two, yeah, I have time, I can relax, I can do, you know, stuff. Day three, it felt like my brain exploded. Gremlins had come to play. I was so shocked and anxious, suddenly panicky. And that was the first time I understood ptsd. Until then, I ascribed it to soldiers who went to war, Iraq, Afghanistan and all those things, but not to ordinary human beings. Little did I know that there it had come to my turn, it had knocked on my door and it was the most frightening experience. Disturbing. And thankfully for, for some, you know, by the grace of God, I'd say I had the presence of mind to contact my macmillan nurses, you know, whom I've been seeing to say, look, I'm having this bonkers feelings. Am I going mad or is this a thing? So it was somebody I'd been talking to before. So she laughed. What was their answer? Were you going mad or was it a thing? They said, oh, you're not going mad, you're not going to. It's a thing. We've been expecting you. It was like, you know, because up until then, you know, I'm like myself. The way you hear me talking now, it's like that. I go there, I, you know, talk to them. I Do my treatment. I go to the things. And, you know, that was that. So she said. Then the woman, the nurse I spoke to then suggested recommended sessions with a clinical psychologist. So she gave me three sessions, which I took very, you know, gladly. And when I saw the psychologist, she was very, very helpful. Gave me, you know, tools to help myself, ways of thinking so as not to, you know, get myself into a spiral of madness and, you know, helpful way, you know, having helpful thoughts, I guess, you know, and, well, it's an awful lot to process. You've gone from somebody who just, you know, you just suddenly find something that feels unusual, didn't tell your husband initially. And I completely understand that. I'm sure a lot of people, you know, don't worry about things until that happens, and then, you know, you can't stop that process once you've gone. And if, you know, you've got your biopsy and your results, that's something that I don't think anyone could possibly imagine until it actually happens to them. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, having that diagnosis, you know, confirmed was traumatic enough. And then finishing and you think, fine, okay, fine. I'm traumatized by this. And then you finish the treatment where you're supposed to be, you know, happy and thinking, yes, you're done. They managed to get everything. They got all the things out. They got Serenity. She's. No. Spread. The three lymph nodes taken. Nothing new. Spread. Yes, but then. Because. Which meant that, you know, I went to. Because in my mind, going through the process, all I wanted. I wanted to get well. So, of course, my focus was that getting well. So there was no time for me to sit down and then. And then process, you know, what I've been through, you know, and it was only when I sat down and there was no more appointments to go to for, you know, three months, that everything, you know, gremlins, you know, were let loose. You know, maybe you hadn't had time up until then. You've been going every day and then. But did it make you feel quite tired as well, having this, the radiotherapy? Yes, it begged me. Tired. Because there were times and something that I managed to do somehow was to, you know, and, you know, with the help and receiving tips from people is to managing my energy. Because there were times when I'd wake up with a spring in my step. I would then go to the gym. I would do my Pilates and yoga because I had to stretch to keep the area where I had the operation, you know, not to seize and whatnot, contract, you Know, so I used yoga and Pilates because the DVD I was given for to do the exercise I found terribly boring. So I thought I would prefer to do something else where it involves the part of my body that I could use. Well, and then, you know, have the instructors. Because when I went to the gym, I told the instructors, you know, whichever class I attended, look, this is what has happened, so please modify my exercise for me, which I did. And so when I had energy and when I woke up, I go to. I would go to the gym, finish that, you know, come back, have a shower and then, you know, go to my appointment. There are days when I would wake up and the body was just like, nope, sorry, not doing anything, I don't care. And the only thing I'd have to do was to manage myself to the hospital, do the thing. And I used to sort of get friends to come with me. Oh, good. Insane. Just to kind of, you know, chat and to keep contact and all those sort of things as well. Well, I'm sure they want to help as well. You know, I, you know, speaking to you earlier about my. I've got three kids and my middle one, she. Oh, goodness. 25 years ago, I think it is now, she was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia. And I don't think I ever had the time to take stock of, you know, the impact that it actually did have on me because there was so much information. And, you know, we now had a new normal. Like, you had a, you know, your normal life had changed. That was your new normal. And we went along, I had a, you know, like a timetable, diary of. Of treatment. What would happen to her when. And hers lasted three and a half years. And like, you. And they said, oh, you know, we'll see you in like a month or two months or, you know, it got longer and longer. It was just like, no, no, no, no, I. I need you. You. You need to be here around because, you know, it's. It's very. I felt really frightened. I think I was really scared. Yeah. And quite terrified that I might be doing something wrong or miss something or whatever, but wrong, I think. Yeah, definitely. A lot, A lot trauma. And it came out, like, later, because at the time, you've got to keep going, don't you? You don't have that choice. Exactly. You have to keep going. And. Yeah. So how did it impact on your sort of how you felt about your image and your job? You got now this sort of deep understanding of what it's like to go through something that's traumatic. And then reclaim. But also not forget that we are fragile and how important it is to try and be your authentic self and to be honest with people. Because when you told me when we met about it all, I think, gosh, you know, you'd actually never, ever know from you, the way that you speak and the way that you dress and how you interact with people and you're very open and very friendly. But, you know, was it quite difficult sort of trying to. Well, your body's been changed, you've had an operation and then, you know, you've got your sort of. Your clothes. Did you still manage to go out and about or was it. Did you feel a bit sort of, sort of. I don't know. I don't know, like, stay in a little bit more or. But did you manage to try and keep going and you have a different relationship with clothes in your body because your body's changed? Yeah, yeah. So it's a strange one because it's. It's, you know, so following, you know, the breakdown post radiotherapy treatment and having those sort of sessions with a clinical psychologist who then suggested attending a peer to peer support group as well, which I then, you know, eventually went to. So going back with the body and the clothes and all that, when I was going through, going, you know, undergoing treatment, active treatment, radiotherapy, I was told by the radiographers to, you know, cover up because it was in the height of summer. I had this video active thing. So I need. And my skin was going to be, you know, sensitive and. And I needed to protect my skin from, you know, direct sunlight and the likes of it. So there was this day in particular, so. And because I had six months of work as well, that gave me sort of time to be able to, I don't know, reacquaint myself with my wardrobe because going to work, you only wear, you know, worse a certain amount of, you know, section in your. In your wardrobe and then the rest just sort of languished until maybe you're on holiday or something. Anyway, so because I had that time at home, I went through my wardrobe and saw, you know, items of, you know, clothing that were suitable for that time and I sort of, you know, wore them. So one day in particular, I had this wide brim hat, I had a sunglasses and I had a sort of white broderie anglaise dress and I had a pair of wedges on and I looked like I could be on the French Riviera when I came out of Warren Street. Yeah. So when I Came out on the. When I came out of Warren street station because my treatment was at ucl, uclh Warren Street. When I came out and stood close to the traffic lights waiting to cross over, I could feel eyes, you know, looking. And then it sort of, you know, of course, you know, dawned on me. My God, these people are looking at me and seeing all the things I had on and, you know, looking slightly glam, but they had no idea what I was going through. They had no idea what they experienced. And that was, you know, another sort of awakening because I then began to look around as well, looking at people who were walking past, up and down. Who is this person? What is he, she going through? What's going on in their lives? My God, we just look at people on face value and, you know, wish we were them or judge them or something that would have no idea whatsoever what they're going through in their lives, you know. So that was one looking at you, thinking, wow, what an amazing, you know, glamorous woman. Doesn't she look all the time? And you're not. You're actually being very practical and looking after yourself and you're going through treatment. Exactly, exactly. It just so happened that the items I wear, the way I put things together, of course, made them look glam and all that, but it wasn't just because I was, you know, wanting to be glam. But, you know, again, I got in touch with my clothes again because they were there. And so I continued. And because of that sort of look I got. And then getting to the hospital, too, my oncologist was saying, my God, you know, you look well, you look good. I mean, nobody would know you were going through anything. So seeing here, seeing the people and, you know, getting compliments from outside as well, and people looking and then actually hearing from the consultants and the nurses, and I thought, you know, wow, that kind of, you know, gave me sort of a bit of a confidence because in my mind, you know, because you're going through your gremlins, you don't know. You imagine all sorts of things. You imagine people are seeing whatever it is you're going through, but nobody knows what you're going through, you know. And it suddenly dawned on me and, like, my. I love my colors, I love my, you know, things. I love putting things together. And that made me feel confident, that made me feel good, even though I have, you know, small dent on my breast from when the lumpectomy, you know, was done. But, you know, I felt good. I felt comfortable, I felt confident, tired. Yes, completely Knackered. Yes. But I felt good because of, you know, all that and, and that the hearing, you know, the consultants and people talking about this, it gave me the impact on my mental and emotional well being was very, very positive, you know, so in that way and the way I related to my consultants as well, you know, again, as you can hear me, you can see my personality. So I talked to them and they were relaxed and talked to me and responded in the way that I approached them, you know, so. And I think there's something to be said for people who are going through, you know, any sort of trauma or post trauma, you know, somehow, you know, using style and clothes as a tool just to sort of at least give that outward, you know, appearance that people don't. It helps us not to sort of, you know, imagine that everyone can see what we're going through. You know, I think it's because, I mean you've trained in, you've been in fashion for a long time. But I found when I was going through like processing, you know, complex PCSD and did that I kind of lost, I completely lost my confidence with clothes and having help and feeling better and having the sort of assurance or reassurance that it did look, things did look alright because I had trouble looking at my, myself. But I think for, you know, many people, whatever you're going through, whether it's like a physical illness, a mental illness, well, actually I think the two sort of go in hand. But what we look like and how we sort of project ourselves and how people see us, it is important. And when you've got some knowledge about it and also like you had to be practical. I had to learn to sort of smarten up a bit and lose a bit of weight and go out and not feel that everyone was looking at me. But whatever those problems are, to be able to talk about it. So you were able to talk about it to your doctors and your peer group. And I found that talking to, you know, image professionals was great because you can look at, put something on or do something with some makeup and you actually can see a result. Absolutely a lot of things and it feels good and a lot. For a lot of things, things take a bit longer, they're going to take time. So to have go see some sort of image professionals, have a look at people like yourself, Sippy have got a, your directory of everything that all the people and I'm sure that, you know, if they email into you to find out about any help that they might like is something that once you learn the skills, I think they're with you forever. And I even use it, you know, when I go out with friends now, my kids, as fun. I can now access something thing that I couldn't access before. So I'm sure we've only got a couple of minutes left. That's how time flies when you're having fun. Anyway, we're gonna need to. We need to meet up again anyway and have a. Yes, yes, yes. I just want to kind of say because sometimes, you know, when people have gone, either during treatment or post treatment, things happen to the bodies. So besides the, you know, operation that would have caused any thing in the body, you know, people may have gained weight or lost weight and, you know, feeling, you know, when you lose your hair. Yes. No, Definitely yes. People with chemo, you know, there's a hair loss, there's weight gain, there's, you know, eyelashes and all the sort of things. And, you know, pains, aches, mobility issues. There's all kinds of things, you know, and. And, you know, we sort of, you know, help with that. So when. In terms of, you know, fashion. So advice on what to do when your hair is coming up or how to, you know, if you want to sort of, you know, go bold. What do you do? You know, you perhaps, you know, do some makeup, put eyelashes on this, eyelashes that are friendly to, you know, the skin. When people are going through chemotherapy, a little sort of, you know, light makeup, lip gloss. You don't have to wear full makeup, you know, accessories with earrings, hair accessories, simple things like that. When people have, you know, lost weight. If you can afford to find tailors to take your, you know, good skin, and if. If you sort of gained weight, depending on what is what it is, you know, have upcycled the outfits again. Tailors put panels on the side. You don't have to go and spend money buying new things. You know, you just can buy accessories, buy some colorful things that will just sort of give you, you know, things to do with skincare, which you get to skin specialists for, you know, so it's all. There's. There's so many things. And that gives you, you know, a lift for the moments when you're sort of feeling down. Some people have to go back, continue working. So how do you sort of, you know, get yourself in that, you know. Well, I pray we're gonna have to say goodbye, but I think, you know, what I hear you saying is, you know, keep up, like, keep learning, keep going. And there are people to help you. Definitely we have to say goodbye. Okay. Yes. So people can visit. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye. Take care. Bye. Bye. Cpgroup. Com. Bye. Bye.