[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 4:28) Hello, this is Anna Kennedy, we're talking all things autism and I'm looking out the window and it's raining, it's Dolesville today but apparently it's going to be sunny in the next few days. The sun always makes me feel better. So I've been very busy as per usual last week and Angelo was on half turn, he's back at college today I'm so pleased, we had a bit of a tough weekend, I shared all across social media as we were out, Angelo was quite frustrated and all of a sudden he did one almighty sprint, I think if he was racing in the Olympics he would have won but I couldn't catch him and it just makes your heart sort of jump out of your chest or your heart in your mouth or whatever it is the saying is but it took me a while to calm down and then it's those stand and stare moments by people looking, you know, because he's jumping up and down and frustrated but hey ho, that is the joys of parenting either a child or an adult on the spectrum. Busy, busy, busy as I say, we are preparing for our charity autism expo which is going to be on the 26th and the 27th of March. We have some amazing speakers, we have Sienna Castellone, a past women's radio speaker is going to be talking about how to support autistic girls, Allie Knowles, what is Oli dealing with anxiety, Richie Smith, the autistic adoptee from a troubled childhood to autistically awesome, Pamela Kosminski, she's going to be talking about autism family, Dr. Carol Stott, autism in courts and tribunals, Annie Sands, filling out those great personal independent payment forms that we hate and Juliana Wieter, my journey with autism, busting the myths and talking about Richie, Richie has sent me one of his books and it's called The Art of Weighing in the Sink and it's the heartbreaking, comical and inspirational story of a boy learning to live with autism. The Art of Weighing in the Sink, this young man, well gentleman, he was undiagnosed with autism in the northeast of England, he talks about how he overcomes his huge challenges presented by the ignorance of his condition and ultimately emerges triumphant. And for this poignant and optimistic book is an essential read for anyone caring with children with autism. I also wanted to share with you my petition, I've been sharing it in the last five or six days, already got five and a half thousand signatures and it is who will look after my autistic sons when I'm no longer around. Writing a will to ensure your loved ones are looked after when you're gone is something most people don't even consider until later life. But many adults up and down the UK who rely on unpaid payers could see their whole world turned upside down if a plan isn't in place for them. So I'm asking you please can you sign my petition since I want to present it to health and social care because there's just nothing in place at all for our adults and one in four local authorities don't even know which adult who has an autism spectrum condition or even that a disability who's been cared for at all by their unpaid carers or their mum and dad. So yes please please sign my petition, it's on the charity website just to remind you www.anna kennedy online.com. We had a transition work shop last week where we had a hundred families attend lots of questions about transition on the back of Harvey and me which is the documentary with Katie Price. A lot of parents didn't realise they had to prepare so far in advance looking for permission. So yeah so anyway we're going to be talking to a good friend of the charity Aaron York and Aaron is an award-winning UK singer songwriter based in Worcester, his music has been compared to Tom O'Dell and Ed Sheeran with BBC Radio Live calling him a songsmith of soaring vocals and sensitivity crafted tunes, he has established himself as a local artist playing venues in around the West Midlands and a supported acts such as Leona Lewis, McFly and Tom Robinson. Hello Aaron are you there? I am yeah can you hear me alright. Playing with your pops and pans. [Speaker 1] (4:29 - 4:38) No do you know what, it doesn't matter the microphone went wrong so I've tried to mute it. I'm sorry. [Speaker 2] (4:38 - 4:48) That's okay so Aaron tell everybody who's listening in obviously I know who you are but tell everyone who is Aaron where you're from just a little bit about your background. [Speaker 1] (4:48 - 6:08) Yeah so my name is Aaron York and I was, that's throwing me, I was born in Solihull as a baby no so I'm just trying to think the best thing to say where to start really, I'll be okay I'm just a bit thrown, I don't know why so yes so I'm an autistic adult and I work in autism as an autism advisor for local authorities in the West Midlands so my job is a part-time role now where I kind of just work with external professionals and I advise schools and parents we write EHCs and just kind of try and support from a from an education point of view and then the other side of me is I do my music I'm a singer-songwriter and that's kind of I suppose he's a hobby I've never actually got a record deal but I still keep writing and producing and pushing that little dream of mine so they're the main things yeah and then my son's autistic he's 21 and so I can relate to what you're talking about Anna earlier and my daughter's nine and she's almost at the end of her diagnosis journey which has been an interesting one for us so yeah so I kind of that's me. [Speaker 2] (6:08 - 6:13) Okay so let's go back to when were you diagnosed how old were you? [Speaker 1] (6:13 - 7:44) I was in my 30s but obviously I'm only 25 now so I don't know how that works but yeah I had a nervous breakdown and I've been in and out of mental health for years because generally what happened when I was a kid there was no one really had autism in school so I was just labelled as you know just one of those kids and I just grew up thinking that well it's just me somewhere on me or I'm just not a nice person or you know I'm just rude or I'm too selfish and then but I kind of was always in mental health because I always had like really bad anxiety panic attacks and a lot of sensory issues but back then I didn't know what that was I just presumed I just needed to get a grip but as always I always ended up in psychiatry and they never really know what to do with me they always tried to help here and I was treatment resistant with medications too scared of taking it and I tried some but didn't do anything and then this one psychiatrist just mentioned autism because Cameron was diagnosed at four back then and my mom would comment on things like saying oh god you were much worse than Cameron and Cameron was you know troublesome and I was like what you mean I was worse so like you know my mom would tell me the things and shit so we ended up being I ended up getting a diagnosis from a pediatrician because back then psychiatry didn't really know much about diagnosing autism so yeah so I had a disco analysis and yeah and then it just kind of went worse from there so I'm not one of these people as well just [Speaker 2] (7:44 - 7:56) because sometimes we have adults listening in that think that they may be diagnosed on the autism spectrum so if they're thinking of going for assessment do you mind sharing about what the process was for you and how it was for [Speaker 1] (7:56 - 9:46) you yeah I mean I I mean everyone's different I think I think I guess it all depends it doesn't benefit in any way if I'm really honest and this is only my opinion doesn't help me I still get discriminated against in work and not saying there's horrible people out there who hate me but people misread me all the time I think I think it kind of helped me from a family point of view my family understand it now but but it's a really bad system in the UK so I think the best route is go to your GP and ask for a referral for autism and now probably say no or why and just just say because I really feel that it would benefit my life I have a lot of issues here and one of the things that I did have to do well didn't have to but they wanted me to gather evidence I went online and did the the Baron Cohen autism oh yeah I don't know if that's still around yeah I scored quite high with that so I just kind of printed some stuff off and went in but my GP was a GPs make referrals and that's their role and I think they don't need to get into conversation with how or you know saying oh I don't think it's that or I don't think it's this if you think it is just fight your fight if that's out and if you can't it's about getting someone who's a good friend or a mom or a sister or brother who can fight your corner for you and then it's just a matter of waiting then I mean it can take for years and yeah and you just go go down that way that's the NHS reason it but then there's a pride route where you can pay a bit more to get a diagnosis so Cambridge is a good place to start yeah it's a really tricky one but I think it really boils down to why do you want to get a diagnosis I think they know what [Speaker 2] (9:46 - 10:35) you think Anna it's I've heard that from many adults where they say they've got the diagnosis and they don't really want to do anything with it they just wanted to know that's one way of looking at it and then other way of looking at it that some adults have said that they've got the diagnosis and the reason being is they're struggling at work and they want them to make reasonable adjustments for them and in order for them to make the reasonable adjustments they need to prove that they've got this disability so there's that sort of side of it and yeah everyone looks to have a you know a diagnosis for different reasons really so it can be quite a daunting process it's very much a postcode lottery where you live with reference to wait in times as well so how long did you have to wait when you started the process I don't know it's [Speaker 1] (10:35 - 11:23) all a bit of a blur I've been in with psychiatry for a few years they were just always like intrigued with the way I thought and I'm not weird but it was just I was just I'm a bit scattered and and so I think it was more they were trying to explore it from a psychiatry point of view and with psychology you know I'd have to wait and then there'd be like a 20 year old psychologist fresh out of uni talking to him I'm like who are you you know and so it's kind of it was a weird one I think it was a matter of just he didn't know what else to do he was a really nice psychiatrist and he I can't remember and I don't think it was that long back then it wasn't many people not many adults were getting diagnosed in Birmingham anyway so it was the more [Speaker 2] (11:23 - 11:32) articulate you are the more difficult it is to get a diagnosis because I found that as well when I've spoken to adults yeah I mean I got mine pretty much [Speaker 1] (11:32 - 14:10) straight away it was like a letter of you know congratulations you're autistic okay now what it was I think it was you know it was I think the woman was a lovely woman she's a pediatrician and her expertise was diagnosed in adults at that point and she was really good she told me in a nutshell that Aaron this isn't your fault and I don't think I related to it because it was I've only had years of being bad you know failed marriage failed friendships and it was always oh well it's my fault I've got to do something about it's like I could never eat with people I still can't now but otherwise make myself force myself and you know there's a lot of lot of lot of that and when she told me that actually it's because she disabled and in a in a positive way kind of thing it didn't stick for me I didn't really get it so yeah that I think the help came after that I think because I'm so articulate I think yeah I think they were just interested in the way I was thinking a lot more and I didn't feel like anybody helped me the best help I ever got was from a psychiatric nurse I had my nervous breakdown and they didn't want to hospitalize me because I was too anxious basically and he was amazing now he wasn't an expert in autism didn't even have a clue how to probably spell it but he just got me and we would take me to the pub we would chat we would walk the field sometimes I was able to ring him and just talk about my head and the way I was feeling about things and he just accepted me for who I was he was the best help I've ever had and I've got great friends in my life but it was for me from an effort from a from a medical point of view he a nurse that didn't understand autism was the best help I ever got because he just didn't care he was just like good listeners as well can help as well just to listen yeah I find that people just want to give you answers all the time with autism it's like it's not what it's about it's just like just accept us for who we are and you know I'm not trying to say hey man I'm an ass be I don't actually like being autistic I struggle with it but but it's you know that's just my experience of it all isn't it's a weird one like you and your kid you know you different experience and my son's the same all camera they ever got through his education always lovely boys and he always so nice and the problem with all that it's kind of there's a there's a cognitive bias of well if he needs to apply himself or Aaron you need to try harder at things or Aaron come on you need to think differently and it's like well we can't just stop wasting my time with telling me that if that makes [Speaker 2] (14:10 - 14:15) sense yeah so how did you feel when your son was diagnosed and we didn't [Speaker 1] (14:15 - 15:25) really know what autism was I was doing my degree in psychology at the time and I was intrigued by just he I just loved him for who he was he was just Cameron and and you know he would just he was who he was I never I think maybe subconsciously I understood him because he was me and I think you know when people were having problems with him in school and and you know even in a you know we had a brief time where I was in church and he used to used to get put in Sunday school with the baby group because they didn't know what to do with him you know I was just like what's going on what doesn't anyone see my son that I say and I think so I think it wasn't really a shock it was more of like okay then what so what does this mean and I presumed school would help you know I had a very very kind of you know blinkered view of oh well he's done he's got a disability now so they're gonna help him and that was a big shock realizing that it's not set up the system in the UK is not set up for these kids but that was hard and you know seeing him being shagged out by teachers and pinpointed and yes Matt yeah I think the thing with parents as [Speaker 2] (15:25 - 15:48) well as a lot of parents and it's you know it's it's a sort of common sense what you would expect is that once they've got a diagnosis they fall they feel that all the support will just fall in their lap but it just doesn't work like that very rarely like that it's a good other battle another journey need to navigate another milestone another hurdle to get over and yeah I [Speaker 1] (15:48 - 17:04) totally agree and I think I think that you know that the problem is the cultural view of autism is that you know so we are in the UK we're a medical model view of autism so you know so it's there's something physically that has to be treated autism is something that needs to be treated and and that comes from the medical model so and even from giving someone a social story that still means you're treating them for something wrong now some people might not think well what we accept these autistic children they are in the adults I don't see it it's very very rare you know see in parents a lot parents just get their kids but then they go out in the world with them and and it is that that's the problem it's the medical model and then but you know there's this new there's the other model the social model where they have that you know the view is well actually they're different they're just a human variation and there's a lot of academics and I started to write about that now and I think that's the future and I think your son and my son and you know I think in years to come the help will be there they won't be they won't have to be an Anna Kenna Kennedy autism or an Accepting Behaviour autism group we won't need them because people will get it I think that's what I think anyway I don't know I could be wrong [Speaker 2] (17:04 - 17:09) I'm trying to be about you teaching in schools and why did you decide to go [Speaker 1] (17:09 - 18:37) down that route just for that very reason I just felt that and why is it that children with autism oh sorry why is it that autistic children aren't supported and I think it really became an obsession of mine probably became a special interest and yeah and I just don't get it cuz I I feel like for me you know you get two types of people you get people who want to fix autism and you get people who just want to accept the autism and a lot of the people who want to accept it are growing now in this you know it's like a new drive it's kind of actually maybe isn't us that need to focus on getting them to change maybe it's us that needs to change and and now I want to be part of that you know I really like my work it's really challenging because again you know the education system isn't set up for them so I'm trying to advise teachers to help children that are in the wrong environment you know even some special schools well a lot of special schools struggle and again it's only my experience of it all you know the amount of autism experts I see they haven't got a clue it's just ridiculous autism teachers and you know and then they're you know it's just I think it's just needs more of us to go out there with a different message and more of a child-centered and more person-centered message to say okay how can we help these people what is it that we need to do and and that's why I do my job I think people call me an autism expert [Speaker 2] (18:37 - 19:06) and they always put them straight away please call me that because I'm not basically I've tried to do the best I possibly can and I'm trying to help as many to create platforms and possibilities for them and that's what I feel that I do and raise awareness acceptance hopefully inclusion you know and and that's what I'm not an expert please don't call me that no I know it's [Speaker 1] (19:06 - 19:50) it's a tricky one isn't it because it's kind of there are some people like you know your voice is massive for people isn't it and I think and we don't realize who the impact we have when we just go out and talk about even just this having a chat I don't know who's gonna listen to this and there'll be people that it'll really help well there'll be people that would have turned up by now but you know and that's fine I think if you help one person it's worth doing I think so yeah I mean I'm you know I I love autism do I understand it I think I don't I think I understand that it's not their fault I think that's something I would probably put my hand up at and say maybe I'm an expert at understanding it's not their fault I don't know if I was to call myself an expert but I still don't have a clue like my daughter now I do not [Speaker 2] (19:50 - 19:54) know what to do between your daughter and your son if you don't mind me asking [Speaker 1] (19:54 - 20:51) I think I think she's very much on the acute and anxious level of autism she's verbal she'll communicate she's high functioning like Cameron if that's a term but it's um she can't cope like she can't get up we can't go in and say come on Lily it's time to get up or come on the zoom session no chance you know and she we find that she gets up on her own and she's happier and she's calmer but if there's any expectation put on her whether it's do you want to clean your teeth or do you want to get up you know I don't know I'm not I'm not here to debate PDA but if I think it's it's a if that is a thing that that you know kids trouble with that I like to just see as extreme anxiety and I think that's where Lily fits she cannot cope with anything even just can you pass me the phone Lily that's right next to you she can't do it she can't cope so very [Speaker 2] (20:51 - 21:05) difference between because obviously she's still a child so what's the difference between her being bloody-minded and thinking you know like and being on the spectrum how do you know how do you differentiate well it's [Speaker 1] (21:05 - 23:27) a bit again it's something I don't think well I mean I mean I see in children I work with so my caseload is quite high in Birmingham so I think from a professional point of view I can see it in so many different children it's very common and but also the fact which I think is the most important thing is Lily's not a naughty child she doesn't present those behaviors so what Lily does is she will have meltdowns whereas Cameron would probably just be in his own world you know like running around the streets going it's all right dad no one's gonna hit me in the car cuz I'm super bored you know he's just he's over whereas Lily's very conscious very agitated very gets very down on herself you know nine years old and she's very very complex little girl I actually do worry don't worry about her because she's got me and Jane but it's more gosh I don't look at futures for you know Cameron is where he is and Lily will be where she is but it's in it's really difficult and even if even if you know a PDA profile appears if people believe in that or not and even the PDA's advice it doesn't work it's like people listening in and don't know what PDA so can you just I'm sure well I don't know it's I'll tell you what PDA is it's what it's you've got two dividing people their views of it it either doesn't exist or it's a separate thing or it's the same or or it's you know it's a part of autism or it isn't it's very confusing what we know from the research is there is a profile so there are children that have an extreme lack of being able to cope with things more than other children with autism if that's a comparison I don't want to be comparing but it basically stands for pathological demand avoidance and it came up from a lady Elizabeth Newton in Nottingham I think that's where she's from and and you know they're doing good work I think the academic world doesn't know yet I think it's very much we don't know I think so I'm very much I've researched it really well now just because I'm passionate about knowing things that are out there and I think you know having Lily she fits that kind of child but for me it's it's anxiety for me that's that's my honest opinion of PD I don't like yours is Anna [Speaker 2] (23:27 - 23:37) but it's it's anxiety yeah if you want to know more about it the PDA society you've got a wealth of information yeah so just check them out well yeah and [Speaker 1] (23:37 - 24:43) also don't just look there yeah swear you know there's a Damien Milton right some some work that he's done on it and what you need to do with anything around autism is to go for a non-biased view don't go to websites that that promote you know some people out here you know love applied behavior analysis whereas which is called it ABA which is common you know but then something quite controversial that yeah but you go to their website and it's amazing so yeah so if you're looking at PDA just type in academic Google PDA research and you'll get you'll get the two differing views so I'm I hate the word on the fence but I think for me it's massive high level of anxiety and I work with children that have that profile with PDA and the problem you get with PDA at the moment you should get professionals who are diagnosing it and you know you're paying thousands to get these diagnoses but it's not an NHS diagnosis you can't get diagnosed so it can get is a profile and it just confuses everything and I think for parents it's autism or it's not in my head but again that's just my view [Speaker 2] (24:44 - 25:01) let's digress a bit let's talk about music let's talk about your music when you start your music what is it that you do how do you write your songs all those sort of things I just think you're wonderful on that side of it oh yeah [Speaker 1] (25:01 - 30:28) thank you yeah I think you're autism you haven't got a clue but your music's brilliant no object you know why to really see this is an interesting thing with regarding autism I'm actually on my backs really bad I've had like really bad back pain and I'm on painkillers I'm in a lot of pain and I find when I'm in pain I'm a little bit more intense so I might be coming across like that so forgive me music yes I'm a failed singer song writer I've always wrote songs I just think I remember being seven the first song I wrote was called anniversary time and I remember and had no clue socially of what was going on but remember we went to Wales and you remember them I don't know still do let me know in like the the bubbling holidays where you have the competitions and my mom just put me on stage and I played this piano I remember just everyone standing up raw and cheering and I wouldn't have won a top prize of a kite and I was like I was just clueless to what was going on but I just I've always been out to write songs and it's always been really interesting for me it's always I'd always been to Phil Collins and I'd imagine I was the songwriter never a singer I don't know why where that came from and it was important to me to do the music and the lyrics for some reason and I've always been out today I can't read music can't follow me she really is amazing at it she teach myself how to play the piano at the moment baffles me how she can do it I've always just been out to play so I've always read songs and I stopped as I grew up I think I went through my my terrible teens and you know life got in the way and then I think when I was like 18 you know just bought a rented a piano what would you rent a piano this big wooden piano rented and I just started writing again and yeah I just I don't know it just gives me escapism I guess like I'm doing this thing this year where I'm writing one song a month and it's been awesome and because I'm loving it because yes I'm writing it producing it what's that that little Britain I'd write the theme to you'd seen the feature yeah I'm just I don't generally don't like what happens is I will sit at piano and I just something happens and a chord comes that I like or it doesn't and I find if I sit to write a song like I just doesn't happen but recently the past couple years since lockdown I've released so much and if there is anyone who's slightly interested I'm on Spotify please help me get more than a hundred plays that'd be amazing how do they find you just just Aaron your AARON and then York with an A I'm on all the platforms and I've got videos and I kind of I like to control everything but it's weird see because when I wasn't diagnosed I thought that was bad so you know things didn't work maybe jobs and marriages and stuff because I thought well I'm a horrible control but and I'm not I just find that I get really anxious if I'm dealing with anyone else one of my songs of yours is fireman yeah you know that's interesting I read that about Lily and she can't stand it because she doesn't need to write her a new song and yeah no master of deflection I released that couple of weeks ago and you played it and thanks and other people on podcast a plane I love my music I mean I sit there and I'm like I love this not in a like an arrogant way she's yeah this is good enough and then when I have to get that feeling of this is amazing because I like become a fan of it and then and then I put it in the studio record it produce it and then it's like I can't listen to it after just move on I'll always like that rubbish that's the worst song ever so I just kind of write and move on and I think I'm enjoying the challenge of one a month at the moment so yeah that's the deflection of my new one's called London which is a love song about me and Jane who's my wife and yeah we went to London and it's interesting she's been through so much with me and one of the things I have is severe agoraphobia can't travel very far I'm better now and London was one of those moments and I we had a lovely weekend my brother came and then we went and watched shag spear for whatever reason oh you know why and my life's a whole blur and even that you know to get me to autism's got talent it was the amount of I remember you were stressed but it but that's the whole thing about autism isn't it it's like you know it's all it's it's our personal experience isn't it like I'm sure there are things you struggle with I see people who do things and I'm like how the hell do you do how do you get on a plane and go to America or you know how do you do it's just I'm in awe of it I can't do it I you know and so even just traveling to London for me it's like running a mental marathon and I'm drained and I'll have to sleep or drink a bottle of wine it's kind of so yes I think what is about talent and this London trip with Jane was yes massive massive achievement for me so [Speaker 2] (30:28 - 30:48) I've wrote a love song about it me about because I get a lot of questions and even from my son Patrick about dating he finds it really difficult to approach women and all that sort of thing you got any tips yeah you know why I've never [Speaker 1] (30:48 - 31:35) met Patrick and I think it's it really is this going back to what I was talking about about the medical model thing and and the acceptance of autistic people isn't there enough and I think there's nothing wrong with your boy he has his issues and he will meet my son's the same Mark Cameron is a vegan right so he won't date anyone who smokes drinks always a vegan I think the drinks all right and it's like that really minimizes his you know scope but then it's like you don't look at it from the other end I don't want Cameron going around with the the 21 year olds out there at the moment not not being horrible to 21 year olds but you know oh man you know and I think for Patrick it's that isn't it's [Speaker 2] (31:35 - 31:46) about him feeling all right with himself confidence or he feels that you'll do whatever he can to sabotage it before it even goes anywhere well that was what [Speaker 1] (31:46 - 33:14) I used to do and that's really weird isn't it it's like whenever yeah isn't that interesting because I I I have issues like I'm like with Jan I love Jan and we've been together for 15 years but I remember one one afternoon where I was having this I I went through a phase of I have to feel love or I don't love them I don't I struggle to connect my emotions and I remember in the morning I was like oh do you know what I'm gonna see Jane she's gonna walk down the drive and my heart's gonna pound I don't know what mood I was in and then and then she walks down and I just see her she looks like she's had a full day of work looks tired and those look too big and I was like right I don't love her then because if I loved her I wouldn't feel like that and I think it's that is good I don't know if that is advice for Patrick but it's very much just don't listen to your thoughts too much or don't think that it has to be somewhere else because this Hollywood love thing I mean gosh like since I won't talk about my wedding photography but I'll do wedding photography as well and the amount of lovey lovey things I see and then you know six months down the line then they're not speaking to each other it's kind of I think if Cameron or Patrick ever meet anyone what a blessing do you know what I mean if they don't it's okay and I think it's more about like Cameron really is grasping this acceptance of himself it's hard isn't it to accept yourself but that's my advice sorry and it's probably not the [Speaker 2] (33:14 - 33:25) best advice in the world and so talk to me about lockdown covid how is that impacted on your life on your son's life and on your family life really and [Speaker 1] (33:25 - 35:39) yeah yeah I think I think I think I think like but music wise it's been great because I've been asked to write music work wise it's been okay I find that I struggle with teams I never know I tend to either talk too much I don't if you've noticed that or like I don't know when to dip in and out so from an autistic point of view that can be a bit challenging I like to be out in the schools supporting the kids and meeting the family and that's so I haven't enjoyed that bit I think I did initially like all around teams and everyone's and I can do teams in my pajamas it's quite funny the things I would see if I could wear and get away but now I'm like okay I've had enough now you know I just want to get back so I think I think it's been tricky I think Lily has found it hard she's really sure we don't know she's going for the edge the education health care plan process we're looking for special for her but again it's there is nowhere where is the so there's that worry Cameron just I can bring Cameron anytime of the day and he's gaming yeah you know he's really happy and we have got a bit bit and like what you're going through he's now we found him shared accommodation but now he's got to get out this year is times up or something and I'm having to fight to get him supported living somewhere else and it's not there so what do you do it's just but again it just goes back to I think originally if we accepted these people for who they are we would have things set up already for them but you know that's the ideal world well now I don't think I think it's a realistic goal I do I really don't think that there's a lot you know they're all parliamentary group are on board now the naturalist I mean that the new statistic for employment have come out now and it's and now it's worse than it was there's only 20 percent of all adults with autism in employment that's mad so it's so I'm only 20% of the population of autism you know I can't believe that where are the 80% what's going wrong there yeah I'm just become an ambassador for something [Speaker 2] (35:39 - 36:09) called include ability and they have set up something where it's going to support people they're speaking to so many businesses and employment you know that are courtfully it might make a little bit and I know it's going to be a small thing but at least it's something but you know they keep my fingers crossed they say what they are on the tin if you like but time will tell and so have you got any tips and advice for parents who are struggling with [Speaker 1] (36:09 - 37:29) online learning at home I think I think always got to try everything I'm a fan of that you know whatever whatever you know if anyone says I'll try this try that yes try it but it doesn't work don't crush yourself because you're not their teacher even if you are a teacher you're not your parent you're not your child's teacher I it's a very different world we never homeschooled Cameron he was out of school for a while and Lily now can tolerate a five-minute zoom conversation with with the support worker she's got who's brilliant but any question that is asked she will just throw the phone down and she can't cope even what you're gonna do daily or what your phone goes on the floor she can't cope so I think from an autistic point of view you just do what's what you can do the best you can and please don't worry because it because it really comes from that that cognitive view of oh well I need to be this type of parent you just need to be the best parent you are for your kids and I bet yeah I could line up ten families and all the advice would be different the condition still the same the autism still the same the areas of struggle are still the same but every bit of advice would be different and I think you've just got [Speaker 2] (37:29 - 38:05) to do what you can yeah I know some parents are saying it's it's not too bad but then you've got other parents that are juggling because they're working from home themselves you know they've got other siblings there and it's very stressful yeah I think if the weather's gonna be a little bit better help with children and adults as well sort of going out for a walk because with the weather when it's been so bad and it's raining and snowy just like adds a bit more pressure onto the family if you like yeah so yeah hopefully fingers crossed but it sounds like children may be going back to school very soon so we'll keep [Speaker 1] (38:05 - 38:25) our fingers crossed yeah I think yeah it's a tricky one Anna do you still eat your mixed popcorn do you remember you went for a phase of having salt and sweet yeah do you still love it every time I buy salt I think I need shares in the [Speaker 2] (38:27 - 38:56) company but Patrick he's on fellow at home and he's finding it difficult now I thought he'd probably quite enjoy being at home he sort of does but he's saying I'm missing going into work I'm missing you know he's been off now or probably about five six weeks so he works at Pinewood and I'm so pleased he's got a job he's been there for like three years now but he is missing work now and he's I've noticed he's more in his room that's the whole point I never jump in the first [Speaker 1] (38:56 - 39:27) place yeah I think what I don't know what you think Anna but like I one of the things I've seen autism world that is so the children are so resilient and even the young people and even if it looks like they're not they always cope and get through and I find that autism is such a resilient condition like these kids are so strong yeah so yeah it is an interesting one I want to let you let me know how Patrick gets on with dating I'd love to [Speaker 2] (39:27 - 39:50) start a dating agency yeah that would be interesting probably need counselors and what have you to be part of it as well but there are a few that are out there I know there's one particular one that I saw and they charge something like 700 quid members I thought what yeah but yeah so what do you think of actually talking about days and what do you think about the [Speaker 1] (39:50 - 40:52) undateables you ever watched it yeah um do you know it's really tricky I find that in in the media and again I could be people could disagree this and it's just my thoughts on it there's still a tight cast of autism there's still like there's still this pigeonhole of what what and the kids I work with in schools and the families I spot I don't see any of the undateable types does that make sense and I find that they're there definitely I just think they're the minority and I think I would love to just see a little bit more of the majority which are kids like Cameron you're Patrick yeah by Lily out there and so that frustrates me a little bit so I tend to not watch much I liked the you know that program with them in the Lake District with the little boy I thought they touched on a few words me is that what it's called yeah with that with dr. who yeah yeah yeah yeah some of that I liked I didn't watch all of it [Speaker 2] (40:52 - 40:57) but wrote it his son's autistic which is not really that well known out there [Speaker 1] (40:57 - 41:13) okay yeah do you know it's a little bit more normal for me I think from what I saw I hate the word normal but it made more sense whereas the undateables and the Green Garden or whatever they're called I'm not dissing these people but it's very much that's not what I see I've heard there's a film out and not [Speaker 2] (41:13 - 41:33) that I've seen it but it is being slated to film by Sia I haven't seen it I don't know I don't know what why everyone's slating it but apparently there's a petition as well that they want it pulled yeah something like 65,000 people have signed it I don't know why it is I haven't seen it so I can't comment and [Speaker 1] (41:33 - 42:35) I think it's um I tell you one of the one of the things that a little bit of a plug here I work so I work for the Birmingham communication and autism team in Birmingham obviously and on YouTube we've got a channel I set up called cat TV you can't type in yeah don't type cat TV because you just get cats you have to type in Birmingham communication autism teams really love when you but you've done it you can save it and I did a film called this is our autism and it was a few years ago and we've just left it it's had over 24,000 views now and for me that's how I see autism there all I did was I followed five people's lives and I just filmed them I didn't didn't direct them just I may have said oh you sit there mom sit there you know but what they said and how they acted was who they were and I absolutely loved doing that and I want to see more of that stuff on TV I do more kind of natural stuff I get what you mean so [Speaker 2] (42:35 - 43:08) people are listening in now and you think oh I'd like to write you know I've got a pen I can't find it down and you're gonna write an article for me Aaron and yeah okay I'll put it on the charity website which will be great so any of the stuff that you've been talking about any of the links is music and also the Birmingham autism communication TV thing that's on YouTube please check it out on the charity website just to remind you it's www.anna kennedy online.com so talk to me about accepting behavior.com what is [Speaker 1] (43:08 - 44:57) yeah so that is something that I set up here February 19 whenever that was and I just believe passionately that that parents are the key to all this I don't you know and and I wanted to be part of what can I do you know well how could I like balance the professionalism side to it and and then my personal experience so I just set up this this thing called accepting behavior didn't know what was gonna happen and it's growing really nicely and I'm meeting lovely parents and it's just a resource for people on YouTube and then we do a Facebook live probably well I was doing one a week but it got a bit too much to manage with Lilly and stuff but um there's loads of video just it's all about content of so from and so I'll give people some professional feedback on this is what we know about autism and then it will just be a this is the reality of how you manage it and I give top tips and it's only my experience of autism it's very child-centered very much about how do you do your acceptance because it's okay for me to say we just got to accept them yeah well how and and that's what it's all about it's about well how do you actually practically apply acceptance and it's going really well I'm now just doing a training program and I've just finished a book which is going out to agents and it's about acceptance I don't know what I'm gonna call it yeah it's been the hardest thing I've ever done it's like 70,000 words of yeah I'm so I'm really excited so I think next year there's a lot happening and it's all about acceptance I really do think it's just the way forward I honestly do so that's what accepting behaves about and then there's [Speaker 2] (44:57 - 45:32) loads of things on YouTube and you know and so what we haven't touched upon is building bridges which is the charity album which is apparently four years this week I remember we had our first meeting in Oxford and we were sat round down on a cup of coffee and you looked at a horror but you know what yeah and [Speaker 1] (45:32 - 46:11) that's the amount of anxiety that I had hidden to get to Oxford was for not so I think the fact that I had a meeting with you successfully I was quite proud of that just like oh my god I've made it to Oxford and yeah I think well you know you're one of these people that just have so many ideas so you know I think I connect to you like that I think you're always on the go and my brains always on the go and I just think you know the the two worlds collided well didn't it I think so if we just yeah and it was awesome wasn't it and it's nice to see that people are still appreciating the music and yeah it was just a really [Speaker 2] (46:11 - 46:23) great experience wasn't it and I know we didn't wait so that came together and you wrote the words was it bar one song you didn't write yeah it was Calvin wrote [Speaker 1] (46:23 - 46:45) he's one I mean it's just awesome that kid but they all are obviously yeah we just kind of there's a couple of kids I've been working with in Birmingham and I think you had a couple and we just wanted to give him a platform didn't we and and I had some songs and we just put them together and we fitted songs for different you know kids and and it just worked and yeah yeah I loved it [Speaker 2] (46:45 - 46:55) it was such I like your recording studio didn't they tell everyone about your recording studio that you've got your house I mean I have a garage that has [Speaker 1] (46:55 - 47:37) some speakers and a computer but yeah no it's um it's my little man cave I live in it I love it so yeah and I just wanted to just kind of do something with it I think I had a bit of writers block I hadn't really been doing much and so you know you really sparked a thing in me and I just loved it it was hard work I think the production was I didn't really know how much time it would have taken it was worth it wasn't it and you said a year and then you went oh could I have a little bit of extra time I can't remember but it was like whoa it was just so difficult to do but we nailed it I think we did I mean I reckon I'm I'm a bit of producer now I think I could have done it better but but that's just [Speaker 2] (47:37 - 47:55) my cynical and then because you told me you were a photographer I said oh would you mind taking the album cover so we all to your house and then we went to some train station some random bridge yeah it was good and they've done the [Speaker 1] (47:55 - 48:19) bridge up now I'm really annoyed so that was kind of like it doesn't look like that now no just looks new and horrible whereas the old I liked it with all the holes and the graffiti I mean I don't I sometimes speak to people on Facebook just keeping contact with them and stuff it's nice to see a lot of them are still doing it and it's brilliant and and I mean you're that Ryan lads got [Speaker 2] (48:19 - 48:34) he's in the band now isn't it I know he's he's also set up a little business as well yeah and also we also met at create art which was in Wales because we [Speaker 1] (48:34 - 48:50) were judges and that's where I met Erica yes she's a man what a voice that girl I don't know I've messaged her mom you know I don't know what Erica's up to but I mean they were all just so talented right now and Karen Karen's voice still [Speaker 2] (48:50 - 48:56) I don't know how he hasn't got a record do you know well you know why it's [Speaker 1] (48:56 - 49:12) interesting because the stories that are coming out I mean look at that that that I don't know I can't remember his singers name in the 90s said that you know the things it's just a horrible industry so I don't actually know if it is probably good for people like us to not get good deals and I'm not sure [Speaker 2] (49:12 - 50:03) well what he got I was approached by something called this is my song and I always get approached now like from Britain's Got Talent or The Voice they come to me they've seen singers on YouTube or on the charity website or whatever it is that I've been posting so they say oh would you mind you know if we so that's like fantastic that we're being recognized like that and I they chose two singers I get I put five forward and they chose to was Jasmine and the other one was this young man and he was chosen he went through all and then when it got to the very last minute he just said I can't do it he said I'm not in the right place for it I was gutted but I respected that he couldn't do it and I thought oh you don't know how good you are [Speaker 1] (50:03 - 51:44) it's interesting because I remember Scott Jay with one saying it but you know how anxious he would felt in the X Factor yeah and it isn't very nice the process I know some people that have been on it and it's quite like controlling you know if you're a guy with a guitar and curly hair and I've got someone else that's got the same they don't they're wearing over here and they'll just pick you up and drop you and I'm sure they don't mean to but yeah then there's a lot of mental health issues there and the socializing aspect I went for an audition to X Factor and I remember right at the beginning it was when you had to sing a song so I decided to sing one of my own and they just told me to leave but you know Britain's Got Talent I got right to the recording stage but they dropped me yeah they had me back that they got me to even just that like they recorded me twice then I was asked to tell my life story and it was such an emotional thing for me to do and then I heard nothing and it's like stuff like that they don't realize yeah one that I'll never do again they just it's just too fickle I think the best way to be successful as a singer in this world is to do it yourself I really do and I'm having much more success now regarding online streaming and I know a joke about you know being I am a nobody but I've got a cool fan base now and yes it's slow but that will remain with me and if I keep going it will grow and that's the best way to do you don't have to go on TV it's [Speaker 2] (51:44 - 53:18) just yeah that's only my experience one of our ambassadors James Hobley do you remember and the Hough used to be a judge on Britain's Got Talent when it yeah so James is one of our ambassadors and he's from my neck of the woods the North East he's a twin his brothers autistic and his older brothers autistic so his brother is was a karate champion his eldest brother was like fantastic at artwork and I think he's got his own studio now and James always wanted to dance and he got bullied at school for wanting to dance so I that's when I started the anti-bullying campaign give us a break so I approached Esther Ranson and just said oh I really want to do this campaign I noticed on the NSPCC website at that time there's nothing about autism so we did a video and so many hits that it got and that it during that anti-bullying year that it had the most hits ever because teachers were looking at the particular video that we put together and then he was on Britain's Got Talent and he actually got to the final seven well amazing but he his mom was telling me at the story that and obviously at the final they wanted to put him up in a really posh hotel and he just didn't want that he wanted the premier in or the travel lodge they're all the same because they look the same they serve the same type of sausages all that sort and they just would weren't having any of it and in the end he had to stay in the posh hotel he was so stressed you know that's [Speaker 1] (53:18 - 54:09) really interesting because I can't write Jack in this way James needs a medal I can't go to certain hotels so I have to know as long as I can have a window open so when they started closing all the windows of the premier ends I can't stay in them and we've we've gone to beautiful settings and I've walked into the hotel and I've walked out again we've lost hundreds of pounds because I cannot do it but just if the windows are closed I can't go it's very surreal so I have to have that sameness it's really odd isn't it and people and this goes back to the acceptance thing Anna people really need to start understanding what what that means and I'm hoping that people work as that's so sad isn't it like the talent of that lad yeah because he's I mean premier ends a lot cheaper than the posh hotel as well isn't it I don't know really really we do our [Speaker 2] (54:09 - 54:20) events we always choose travel lodge or premiering and it's because we're a charity we can't afford you know those sort of things but they appreciate that that's what they want so that's what we do so why was I put in that that [Speaker 1] (54:20 - 54:45) garage basement then Anna winner when I say it's weird cuz I said to Jane I can't stay I can't stay I can't stay I think I did it and I had to just come home it was stressful for me thank you for letting me do it I loved it you got a standard ovation if I remember correctly yeah I do love performing I just I go into this kind of like it's like being I don't know on some drug of calmness [Speaker 2] (54:45 - 55:16) it is the only thing that shuts me down we've only ever had one performer that at the end they couldn't do it and ten years that we've done it everybody's actually performed on the night whether they didn't and do the rehearsal or we only ever had one and it was actually a young lady with PDA and she just wouldn't come out the hotel and she was the only it was you and then afterwards she was sort of kicking herself that she didn't do it but she just couldn't do it at that time so we appreciate that we always we never put [Speaker 1] (55:16 - 55:26) pressure on anyone we always say who's he's that who's that guy he's amazing I forgot his name the guy who helps you the footballer person the footballer [Speaker 2] (55:26 - 55:33) person the one who knows footballers I mean Austin yes part of us now cuz he [Speaker 1] (55:33 - 55:53) works with West Ham he's he he really calmed the back down when we were at the brand the back yeah he was brilliant at it and I think he really helped me get on stage if I'm honest yeah yeah so yeah we've got at the minute obviously [Speaker 2] (55:53 - 56:22) but still got Lisa with me and just knows it backside first step or you know behind the stage and now we've got Phil who's fantastic at calming people down behind stage and we you know we get young people and adults to talk on stage as well after performing or before performing where before some of the thought they would have done that and do you what I love about it is when they walk off stage it's how they puff their chest out how proud they are of [Speaker 1] (56:22 - 56:58) themselves and that's what makes it for me yeah no and I've you know in my small you know career of music if that is what I could call it I've been backstage in big you know venues and stuff and the way I was the way you treated everyone was just different you were just it's not there was no arrogance there no attitudes no you know advers and that's what I liked about it and I think it's because I don't cope with any of that I don't cope with fakeness I just can't handle it I don't understand with that no and I just think it's really nice hanging with just I just remember you sitting there with your little clickboard [Speaker 2] (57:00 - 58:24) everyone says to me oh you're a lot taller we've just been given the three minute marker I think so I just want to remind everybody that if you want to check out resources on our charity website we've got so many and if you feel that there's nothing on there that that should be on there please write to us if you want to write an article for the charity website we're open to that so it's checking out www.anna Kennedy online.com there's a contact form on there if you want to write an article check out the resources page we're always updating our latest news we have a newsletter as well that goes out every quarter so please subscribe it's a free subscription and then you will get the newsletter every quarter everyone that works for me is a volunteer including myself nobody gets paid in the charity we do it because we love it and I'm so happy to have a team of volunteers that are passionate that are driven that are enthusiastic they're either parents there are the autistic adults there are their grandparents I think we've only got one person that hasn't got any link to autism and he's been with us for eight years and that's one of our patrons Steve and he's just part of our what we call the AKO family that's growing and growing and growing and so yes so again Aaron if people want to [Speaker 1] (58:24 - 58:30) check out your music where can they find you yes just Aaron York.com and [Speaker 2] (58:30 - 58:35) sure accepting behavior.com is on Facebook is that right yeah well it's on the [Speaker 1] (58:35 - 58:39) website as well yes yes everywhere so I'll I'll do you a little article thing [Speaker 2] (58:39 - 59:36) Anna and you can share yeah so everybody that speaks for us on women's radio station there is an article that goes out on the charity website so don't worry if you've missed any links or any books or anything that's been talked about there will be on the article and please please don't forget to sign my petition I've got a long way to go it's www.change.org forward slash Anna with a capital A petition so that's www.change.org forward slash capital A for Anna petition Aaron it's been a pleasure talking to you as always I love talking to you I love your realness I love your rawness I love everything about you and I love what you're saying and please keep being you okay just to your family thank you your longest suffering wife take care see you soon