Love Lessons – Mindfully Unmatching – To Ghost And Be Ghosted, Josie May

Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons Live. I'm so excited to welcome the wonderful Mancunian Josie May onto the show today. Today is a really important topic and it's something that blows my mind that we even have to discuss. But what I do have to say about it, it's one of the, the most questioned things in the dating scene at the moment. It hasn't gone unnoted by me that it's the most. It's a topic that gets most hits on my Love Lessons website and it's the thing that people slide into my DMs about so much on Instagram and Facebook, asking me questions of how to deal, how to move on, that is to ghost and, and to be ghosted, how to move forward after either being on either side of the fence. And so today with Josie, we're going to be talking about mindfully unmatching and how to deal with either one of those scenarios. One, if you have been ghosted by somebody online or offline, and two, if you are thinking or have ghosted somebody and you want to try and get to grips with a different way of unmatching in this virtual world of dating. So welcome to Josie Mae. Hi. I'm so happy to be here today. It's so wonderful to have you on and I know that this is no pressure, a show that people will be really keen to re listen to and to tune into later on in the week. So I'm pleased to have a fellow Mancunian on the show and also somebody that is so such a huge advocate for love and connection. So Josie, could you tell me a little bit about what you know about ghosting, what it is, how it comes about, what does it mean, why does it happen? Tell me what you think about it. Sure. So ghosting, it seems that most people that I've spoken to have experienced it at some point. So ghosting is where you're kind of having some sort of relationship. It can be a long term relationship or, or even just kind of dating or chatting and then suddenly the person that you've kind of been talking to or dating or even in relationship with disappears completely and you have no contact with them, they don't respond to you, they are not contacting you at all. So literally it's like they've turned into a ghost, hence the name. So yeah, it's, it has. You know, obviously a lot of people I know it's happened to me and I know a lot of people that I work with, it's happened to them. And so, and it just leaves you feeling so unsure about what's happened and even thinking, oh gosh, have they been in an accident? Have something happened to them? You know, your mind kind of works. So it's a difficult situation to deal with because obviously there's no communication, there's no way of drawing a line under it and there's no way of it kind of coming to an end where you can kind of understand it because it just ended abruptly. Do you know what, Josie? You've just said something that's kind of been a bit of a nail on the head moment for me on this topic is that empathetically speaking, I guess as you and I are, the first thing that you would think is, oh my goodness, what has happened to that person that no longer wants to be a part of my life? Whether it's digitally or, you know, you've been in a long term relationship. And they do a bit of a ghosting, a bit of a Houdini act. And I guess the first thing that most people would think is, oh my gosh, are they okay? And how is this? Why and how has this happened? And just putting myself on the other, you know, side of the table. I guess the person that does the ghosting is not thinking about that at all. They're just like, I need to get out of here and I need to get out of here fast. This isn't working for me and I don't know how to communicate that. And so what I'm going to do is just draw a line and I guess not say goodbye in a way. Yeah. So can you give me some examples of how people ghost each other online in this space where say they've swiped and matched on an app. That's one form of ghosting in my eyes. And then there's the ghosting where you've been on a few dates and been connected with someone and they disappear. And then obviously after the break we'll touch into marriage ghosting and long term relationship ghosting. So tell me, how does it happen online and in short term scenarios, situationships. So often what will happen is somebody will meet somebody online, for example, they'll swipe, they both mean a yes, they'll have a little bit of conversation. It feels like they've got some connection. They might even talk about meeting or they might even have quite a lot of conversation and then suddenly there's nothing. The other person disappears. Sometimes they block them, sometimes they just don't answer the messages. But either way there's absolutely zero Zero communication. And you know, actually Josie, it's really funny that you and I should be chatting about this today. I looked at my Twitter at 6:30 this morning and the first thing that popped up onto my feed was from someone who is like an anonymous dating blogger saying, I've been chatting to somebody for a good few months now and they've simply disappeared. Now I'm wondering how I'm going to fill that void of communication. And I guess that's something that's really important to address that people create these pseudo relationships online where they're chatting to someone for days, for weeks, for months and they build what they feel like is a connection, but it's or a relationship and it's virtual. And then when somebody ghosts them or blocks them, disappears, however you want to put it, what to do with that void and how to move forward. Have you got any clues about that? So, yeah, I think obviously talk about it, talk about it with friends, you know, communicate with other people. Because what it is, is it's kind of often those, those communications are feeling heard or feeling wanted in some way because somebody wants to communicate with you regularly and that feels good for us. So often it can feel like a big void after that stop. So what I would say is kind of use the people within your life be that you enjoy communicating with. You know, you can tell a friend, talk to a friend about it, go out more, even text friends if you kind of want that more communication, you know, because if there is a void then you want, you can feel very lonely afterwards. So I find the best way to feel less lonely is to surround myself with people that I love and who love me. And I think that obviously is the most practical thing to do in order to feel the best way about yourself and to kind of rebuild a little bit of confidence if it's now, you know, feeling a bit chipped away at. But actually one of the biggest ways to overcome the hurdle of ghosting is for singles to just put themselves back online and often go through the same process again. So have you got any advice for singles out there who are like, actually this person's blocked me, they've deleted me, don't know why, don't know what. And often they take it inward, which we'll talk about. Any advice for, you know, just getting back on the bandwagon and not addressing it? What do you think about that? Well, I think what I always say is it's okay to feel sad, we shouldn't honour our feelings and it's okay to feel sad and you know, it is sad because you thought somebody was somebody who could be right for you, and then suddenly they disappeared. So, you know, give yourself a couple of days to feel sad, but then kind of draw a line under it and say, you know what? This is about them, not me. That's their lack of communication. And if this was my person, if this was my soulmate, my what, they wouldn't have done this. So they're clearly not the right person for me. So, you know, it kind of easy when you think, well, they can't be the right person for me because my love would not do this to me. And then. So my. My guy or my girl still out there. So time to start looking again. So kind of look, trying to twist it to more of a positive mindset, really. And I don't. Yeah, I don't want to underestimate how crappy it can feel, you know, when. When something has happened like that. But, you know, also you can. You know, you can try to turn it to the positive and get something good out of it. I guess what I'm hearing you say is that if you're in a positive mindset, that you haven't taken it inward so much about yourself, but you're looking at it in the way that you've suggested. This person wasn't my person. They weren't right for me. That's why they have passed me by. That's the thing. I always think whatever's meant for you in life will never pass you by. So everything kind of comes to its, well, sometimes unnatural end, but comes to an end when it's the right time because it's the next chapter of your life. And if you're ready to meet someone new with the mindset you've suggested, then it's okay to put yourself back online. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, most people who are dating, not everyone, but most. Oh, this wasn't. I'll ask you then say again. I say most people who are dating, not everyone, but most are looking for the one. And this clearly wasn't your one if they're gonna ghost you. And so actually you're one step closer to your man or to your woman. And in. In some ways, that's kind of positive because actually, you know, you rule somebody out. You're not going to waste any more time with them, you know, and so you can get to finding your love. Oh, gosh. I just got so excited when you say that, because it's a real positive way to think about it and look at it and often we don't. When we're in the situation, it's hard to kind of jump out and take a bird's eye view of what's just happened. But as soon as you, you know, if you don't see it as a failure or if you choose to see it as a relationship or situation that has failed, just thinking, okay, I'm gonna fail a little bit faster to get to where I need to get a little bit quicker. And obviously the person that is meant for you is still out there. So it's so exciting to have you on the show, Josie, talking about this because it is so topical. It's unfortunately something that's taking over the way we date today by storm, unfortunately. So if we could just get from you kind of a quick fire round to cap off this little bit of chat before we move on about how to move forward if you've been ghosted online. Have you got three top tips for us? Yeah, sure. So the first one is to know that it happens to everybody, if not everybody, most people. I've been ghosted, most of my friends have been ghosted at some point. It does happen to everyone. So do not take it personally. So that's the first one. Don't take it personally. The second one is I'd say give yourself a couple of days to mourn it, to feel sad, that's okay. It's good to kind of let your feelings pass through, honour your feelings, but then say, that's it. I'm going to draw a line on it, under it. And after that I'm going to kind of, you know, give myself a couple of days to be sad and then kind of move on from it. And the third bit is see it as you're one step closer to the person that you're going to be with because this guy or this girl was not right for you because your soulmate would not ghost you. Thank you so much for that, Josie. No, you're so right. I love those three top tips. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. We're live on Love Lessons and we'll be back with Josie Mae after the break. See you then. Welcome to women's radio station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to future classic women awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at women's radio station supporting women's well being and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Tracey Weedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award winning family run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth and fine art. You can contact us on 0208-658-4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no obligation quotation at Brownhills. We've got you covered. Hi, I'm Lauren Mishkon. 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The show is live we're here today with the wonderful Josie. And on love lessons, we often talk about navigating online dating, dating in general, relationships to marriage, divorce, and picking yourself back up as a confident single to hopefully find love again. So we kind of go all full circle, but today we're talking about something that's very topical, and that's to ghost someone and to also be ghosted. So welcome back. Josie Mae. Hi. So lovely to be here. It's amazing to have you on, and thank you so much for giving us such wonderful snippets about how to kind of move on if you've been ghosted online. Now I want to get to grips a little bit about. Well, more than a little bit, actually. Not had enough coffee as usual with ghosting in relationships and marriages, which unfortunately does happen more often than people might think. So my first kind of question about this for you is why do you think that someone would choose to leave a relationship or marry or. Well, obviously it's both at the same. Well, not always both. If they haven't had a minimum of a conversation as to why they feel like things aren't working out the way they would have hoped, why do you think they do that? I think it's usually fear, and I think it's fear of the conversation. So it might be fear of hurting the person. Obviously, ghosting hurts the person, but, you know, actually having that conversation, sometimes it's easier just to kind of disappear. But I think it's a fear of either maybe being talked back into something that they don't want or of just having. Having to have that conversation with them and see the person hurt. So I think it's usually just fear that is the reason it's interesting because in your. Obviously in your expertise and in your, you know, professional opinion, it's often about fear, you know, being. I think it's also about the struggle to be authentic and vulnerable with themselves. But you have just said, you know, it's also the not wanting to see the person hurt or go through the emotional turmoil of ending a relationship. So in that case, they just vacate and they're just. They're just done. Is that right? Yeah. And I think sometimes in their head, they'll tell themselves it'll be less hurtful for them if I just disappear, and it will hurt them less if I don't have to tell them to it in their face. And then they won't be embarrassed and I won't be embarrassed, and there'll be no, you know, I think. And we know, of course, that ghosting is devastating for somebody else and can be much more painful. However, I think people in this situation can often come to that conclusion because they just want a way out or they're feeling fearful. It's interesting because, you know, putting myself in your shoes of what you're, you know, telling the listeners, tuning in is that. That it's about fear. It's about obviously not being able to emotionally connect with how it might be hurting the other person. But the person that gets ghosted and the people that contact me about heartbreak and being ghosted are often saying, what did I do? Was I not enough? Was our relationship not enough? Did I miss something? And then they often go through so many waves of emotion and an introspection. But it's quite the opposite, because what you're saying to me and what obviously I know and everyone in the dating and relationship coaching sphere knows, is that it's never actually about the ghosty. It's about the goat. The person that does the ghosting. The ghost, isn't it? Definitely, yeah. And their inability to communicate. And so what would you. Is it a lacking of something? Is it something that you think could be improved and worked upon? What do you think? I think, you know, it can always be something that can be improved upon. And I suppose the first thing is that actually it's never okay to ghost somebody. And I think what happens often is the ghost convinces themselves that it's the best thing to do, and it never is in any situation, because the truth can hurt. But at least you know the truth and you're not questioning and, you know, wondering. Because as humans, we want closure. We want to know we can kind of draw a line under it. It doesn't mean we wouldn't question what they told us anyway. However, at least you can kind of say, well, they've said that they don't want to be with me anymore. You know, whilst it hurts, at least I can sort of move on from there. But when you're wondering, like what you know, that you're not even worth a conversation, it can really hit people's self worth. Yes. On a deep level. And such a chipping at self esteem and confidence, which we've talked about earlier on in the show today, that it's how to pick oneself back up again after a ghosting situation. And I don't know about you, but I definitely have heard a story of somebody in a marriage before being ghosted with children. Have you heard anything like that before? I have. Yeah, I have. And what happens then? What do you Find the person that's been left, goes through. What's your experience and understanding? Well, it's not, oh, we've lost you, Josie. You know, people, can you hear me? Yeah. Can hear you now say, yeah. It's also, it's often not just the person, it's the children as well. That somebody leaves a marriage, they leave the wife and the children or they leave the husband and the children. And that is absolutely devastating. And I think, you know, especially when somebody's been married, you've made this, you've made, you've got a contract, a legal contract that, you know you're going to be a partnership and to just disappear. I think the longer a relationship is, the more devastating a ghosting is, especially if there's children and people that I know that have been through that, it has absolutely devastated their world, really. And how do you find they pick themselves back up again? What have you seen? And I know I've heard some really inspirational stories about how it's kind of pushed people forward to kind of, you know, have a better life, do more, find a deeper, better, connected love. And I've seen amazing turnarounds with ghosting and heartbreak of the kind. But have you seen any inspirational kind of, you know, comebacks after a ghosting? Have you heard of any? Yeah, well, I've heard of, I've heard of a woman who was married and her husband just disappeared and left her and she was devastated and she got depressed and. But anyway, when she came round, she since met somebody amazing and looks back now and says, you know, she was glad it happened because what it did, it made her realize that the relationship wasn't right. She would have carried on in that relationship and actually it wasn't right for her. And now that she's in an amazing relationship where she feels utterly loved, she's grateful for that experience. But of course she had to go through that dark period of wondering what was happening and being able to have no answers. Gosh, it's such a thing. And I've heard of a woman who was ghosted, who had three children and her husband had left her for his gosh PA or something and then he never returned, obviously. And she was a stay at home mum, obviously hadn't spotted the signs, which can happen so often. And there are some signs if you are willing to kind of pull yourself out of denial or if you become more attuned to what they are, if you feel that you don't know, and I guess we'll talk about that later in the show. But she had three very little ones and she's gone on to build a wonderful business and put the kids through private health care, healthcare, school and I guess health, I suppose through private schooling. And she's really successful now. And I guess that situation pushed her to be the person that she didn't believe she could be. But actually, you know, of course it was there. So I just wanted to kind of get to grips with what advice you would give somebody that has just been ghosted from a long term relationship or marriage right now, if you could share. And it's almost similar to the last one, but it's like let yourself have that time to grieve. And it's particularly difficult in a marriage because you know you've made a commitment to each other and there's a lot of, there's going to be a lot of hope there probably that he or she will come back, that you can come reconnect. And there's that period, it makes it tricky. There's that period of. So I would say a lot of self love, a lot of self care, you know, be kind to yourself, do things that make you happy, do things that make you feel relaxed. So it might be massage or yoga or going for a run or eating well, whatever it is that you need to feel good and sort of surround yourself with love in other areas. So that might be friends or family so that you don't feel alone with this. And it's time. I think the main thing is time and to know that you will be okay. I love that. Time is such a healer, isn't it? It's incredible. And some people take it for granted that it's just, you know, a saying or, you know, and when it comes to heartbreak or being ghosted, people tell you all sorts of things. And at the time, I guess I see singles go through it. I've been through it. I know you mentioned you've been through it. Josie as well. At some point or another, maybe I'm not sure of your story, which you know, would welcome to share later on in the show if you wish. So one thing that I really like to get to grips with after the break is the process that a ghost must go through. The conflict, the turmoil, the internal conversations that they may or may not have in order to get to this point. So if you could kind of give us a 3 cap, like round off of what they might be feeling as a ghost before they do the ghosting. Have you got any clues to that? I think firstly they think that it will be easier. They convince themselves it will be easier for their partner this way. So if they just disappear, it will be easier than the turmoil of an argument or splitting up. I think often they think it will also be easier for them because they've got the fear of having that conversation and I think it often goes back to a lack of communication. So they're worried about how the communication is going to go. So it's easier to block or to just disappear and not have those conversations at all. I'm so pleased that we're here on the show today discussing it and getting super duper clear on what it is, what it isn't, how it happens and how it comes around because there are just so many people, so many singles and so many dating bloggers today on Twitter talking about it. So it's really topical and very relevant to finding love and, you know, overcoming the loss of it, I guess. So after the break we're going to be discussing how to mindfully unmatch with somebody, how to get clearer in your communication and how to, I guess, be more concise in the navigating of the unmatching. So Josie Mae will be back after the break with you and I can't wait to share with everyone what you know about ghosting and unmatching, I guess here on Love Lessons. We'll be back. Welcome to the Women's Radio Station Supporting women's well being. Women's Radio Station is all about diversity from opinions, career, ethnicity, education and most importantly, women's well being. We aim to celebrate the individuality of every woman everywhere, providing opportunities and the platform for your voice. Visit our website womensradiostation.com for more information. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. 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For more information on how you can sponsor a Show, go to womensradiostation.com Women's radio station supporting women's well being. Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back. I'm here with the wonderful Mancunian Josie May. Obviously very excited about that fact. And we're here today talking about mindfully unmatching to ghost and to be ghosted. And before the break, we kind of talked a little bit about the process of ghosting somebody, how it can come about the emotional turmoil that the ghost goes through. We've also kind of touched upon how someone that's been ghosted, let's say a ghostee, has felt about the process. And some things really come up for me in the break that you never really forget how someone made you feel. So obviously is that old chestnut saying that you can forget what people say, but you can never forget how someone has made you feel. And I guess when someone does a bit of ghosting, a bit of Houdini, they don't say anything at all. So all you're left with is how they made you feel in that moment. And so I guess my thought process is a kind of not just in, you know, ghosting in marriages and relationships, but online dating, how do you want to feel when someone matches with you and how do you want to leave others feeling? Because in my eyes, ghosting is a huge disrespectful process. What. What's your take on that, Josie? Yeah, it's. It is disrespectful because it leaves people wondering and it's very difficult to move on when you don't feel that you have a reason or an answer or, you know, even if somebody gives you a reason that you don't agree with, you can kind of think, well, this is what they thought, and, you know, you can kind of move on quicker. But when. When there's nothing, what a lot of people do is they think it must be me. Yes, I absolutely agree. And I think that even if you have that conversation, that conflict, that turmoil, where there's no resolution, at least you know that there were two song sheets, hymn sheets, and you weren't singing from the same one. But you kind of can perspective and you understand the thought processes and emotions. But when it's just that cut off, it's like the morning for a ghostie. It can be like the morning of a death, I guess, in the same process, the same grief cycle of trying to bargain with oneself, trying to bargain with another person, take them back. It's the anger, it's the denial that, oh, well, maybe they just need a moment and maybe they just need a week or a month and maybe they'll come back and then, you know, I guess moving into the acceptance stage and letting go. But for some people, that whole grief cycle, which is very natural, can. Can take a lot longer than others. So I never really think about breakups. You know, when people say, well, how. How long we together, Often in their mind, what they're referring to is how quickly you should be moving forward to get over that person, which is terrible, I think. Yeah, yeah. And often it's not about the length of time that you were with somebody, but how deeply you cared and felt for them. Do you agree with that? Definitely. Yeah, definitely. I know myself that I've had shorter relationships that impacted me so much more than longer ones. So. And. And I think that's the same for a lot of people. And sometimes we have these intense. What we feel are intense relationships, kind of short, but intense, and really impact us, really knock our socks off. And then if somebody disappears from one of them, it's, you know, it's not. It's less of a surprise for the people for you, but you're in the middle of it. It's very Difficult. Yes. And, you know, I do hear a lot of people kind of, especially in modern dating today, there's a lot of kind of sailing in the wind and just like going, you know, the motion of the dating ocean, but people not getting really clear on their values, what's important, and they end up being in these situationships which are kind of. They're neither here nor there. There's no exclusivity. And I feel like there is this, for lack of a better term, this toxic, I don't know, energy building around dating today that I really want to kind of break down and help people become better communicators and be clear on who they are. I mean, have you got any take on how we can get clear on communicating? If we're feeling like we want to go someone, block someone, delete someone, how can we so say that was me and I want to go someone that I've been chatting to, what would your advice to me be? My advice would be always let them know that this isn't working for you and that, you know, you wish them well in the future because. And I think even if it literally was that and then you went, it's better than just going with nothing because at least people know, okay, they don't want to be with me anymore. It's when people disappear completely without even a word that makes it really difficult because the ghostee can be wondering, oh, my goodness, have they been in an accident? Are they hurt? You know, often that's the first thing that happens because they've had this. They've had this connection with someone. They've been texting regularly, they've even been dating or in a relationship, and suddenly they're gone. They disappeared. And so we often question if something happened to them. So my advice is always. And if you can't bring yourself to say it in person, I wouldn't say it was the best way. But write a letter or even a text is better than nothing. Oh, gosh. And I just think that being, you know, really clear with what's going on by writing it down or meditating on it is really helpful. If you have been ghosted and you're not on what someone you know is going through and why they've done that, and you feel like it's been done to you, but if you can separate the idea that it hasn't been done to you, it's just that this person has been so unclear in their mind as what's going on that they've needed to kind of just go their separate Ways and kind of just you know, separate themselves from being in this entity, this situation or relationship or marriage, whatever it is. And it's never really about you. So I guess for a ghost, like what? So say I'm online dating and I've been chatting to someone consistently for, I don't know, I heard something today for like a month and still not met. And then I just think, actually I changed my mind and I just want to delete them. And you say, just say something. What would you. How would you recommend that singles online should say something? And what would they say? Because that is the biggest thing that's making. Well, it's not the biggest thing. It's one of the biggest contributors to why they are doing it because they don't know how to communicate that it isn't quite right for them. What would you suggest they say in the most tactile, loving way? I'd say be honest, tactical. I'd say be honest, keep it short and don't. Because sometimes people say, oh, maybe not now, maybe in the future. Don't give false promises, just be honest and say something as short and as nice as possible. If somebody's been chatting for a month and put, hey, I've realized that this isn't working for me. I wish you well. In your ongoing dating, something can be as short as that and you don't have to necessarily for a month, give a clear reason, but you can just say, this isn't working for me. But if there is another reason, like they're dating somebody else and they want to date them instead and be exclusive with them, let somebody know. Actually, actually I've met somebody else. I want to be exclusive with them. But don't give any false hope because I think that's cruel. Yeah, I absolutely do agree that false hope is not right, but just, just being super duper clear that this isn't going to go forward. Rather than, oh, can I get back to you? Or let's, let's think about this when I'm not so busy with this X, Y, Z. Just non of that bs, I'd say, no, none of that because it leaves false hope. Just be honest. Hey, I know we've been chatting, but I've realized that, you know, I'm not feeling a connection. Good luck in your future dating in your search for love. You know, be nice, but be honest. Honesty is, you know, absolute policy when it comes to online dating because it is faceless. Because we just see profiles and we can't feel the real human connection behind it until We've met those people. Even when dates happen, ghosting still happens after a first or second date if someone's just not interested and then they block them on social media. I think it's this toxic navigation. It's disposable and it's disrespectful. And I think if you don't ever want to be ghosted, don't ever ghost somebody. Yeah, if you go on a date with somebody and you didn't fancy them, then just let them know in it, like, I didn't feel a connection, but good luck, you know, wish them well, let them know straight. You can say in a nice way, like, I didn't feel a connection. You know, you don't have to be cruel and say, I didn't find you attractive. Or, you know, you can, you can say, I didn't feel a connection. I think sometimes people don't want to hurt the other person, but you can say it in a way that's unhurtful but still clear. Yes, I think you're right. There is the, the idea that people don't want to hurt other people. But there is also something else, the other side of the coin to play devil's advocate, where singles are so busy multi dating that they are kind of putting their eggs in a few different baskets and then when they found the basket that they'd like to keep, the rest are just disposable. You know, I think that happens in big cities. It happens everywhere, but it's a real thing in London, New York, Louisiana. But just remember that the world is a small place. Like if you, if you've ghosted someone and I'm sure that it doesn't make you a bad person. You know, people ghost, you know, because they don't know how to deal with the situation. They don't know how to deal with feelings, how, how to communicate them, and how to move forward. So let's just do a quick recap. If you are just about to go someone or thinking about doing it. Josie Mae, what are the top three tips that you'd say? What I would say is commit to letting the person know. If you can't speak to them, then at least commit to sending a message, a short message, an email or text message. And be honest. Honest, straight to the point, and no lies, but also kind. The other second thing is treat others how you wish to be treated. Love that one. Nobody wants to be ghosted. And third is, you know, but as you said yourself, what goes around comes around is energy in life. So give out good energy and you'll get it back. It's okay to not fancy someone. It's okay to not want to pursue a relationship with someone. It doesn't make you a bad person. It just, you know, it doesn't make you a bad person at all. So honesty is always the best policy. You're so right. It's absolutely okay to change your mind. Whether it's been seven hours, seven days, seven years, 70 years. It's okay to change your mind about someone. Just find it in you to be integral with your feelings and authentic and communicate them. I'm with Josie Mae and we'll be back on Love Lessons talking about overcoming ghosting and, yeah, eradicating it. We'll be right back. Welcome to Women's Radio Station. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome to Love Lessons live on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to future Classic Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on Women's Radio Station. Hello and welcome to Julie Mae is listening. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy and we're at Women's Radio Station supporting women's wellbeing and we're talking all things autism women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Tracey Weedon of Brownhill Insurance Group. We are an award winning family run insurance broker covering a wide range of insurance products ranging from commercial lines to personal household, high net worth and fine art. You can contact us on 0208-658-4334 or visit our website www.brownhillgroup.co.uk for your free no obligation quotation at Brownhills. We've got you covered. 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Hello, I'm Sarah Louise Ryan and welcome back to Love Lessons live here in the studio in Covent Garden in London. I'm so excited to have Josie Mae on the show. If you're just tuning in and you've caught us on our last segment of the show, we have been talking about mindfully unmatching. So the whole idea of ghosting, to ghost someone to be ghosted, how to kind of get to grips with what's going on and how someone gets to the idea of ghosting and how they navigate ghosting and if you have been ghosted, how to overcome the interpretation of what it means and get to grips with the grief cycle. So Josie May, welcome back on the show. Great to be here. It's so exciting to be here and it's such an important topic and I really, I know ghosting is quite a heavy one. People are not sure why it happens and why it's going on and why it's building in the dating scene as such a go to unfortunately. But now I want to kind of turn it on its head and be a little bit more positive of how to build up confidence again after you have been ghosted because it happens so often. So tell me, what do you think about ghosting, chipping away at someone's self esteem? What can happen, do you think? I think because there's not been a reason, then straight away what we often do is think it must be something that I've done, it must be something that they don't like about me. And instead of when somebody gives you a reason, you can kind of say, okay, that's the reason. Whereas if you don't have one, you can come up with a million reasons. And if you start to think of all the reasons why somebody wouldn't want to be with you, that is not good for your self esteem. No, you're right. And gosh, I can think of 10 million things that I've heard, you know, clients of mine say, or those who, you know, I've been working with on matchmaking, who have, you know, been ghosted before. And then they come and they're like, I'm not going to do online dating because ghosting happens to me so often because it is something that happens so often. But you know, relatively speaking, unless human beings can get, you know, more connected and more real with each other as human beings in the search for love of. It's just one of those things that is happening out there. So give me some things that people might think. So often it goes to your insecurity. So I've heard women say, I think it's probably because I talk too much or I wasn't sure if he was attracting to me or I always thought, you know, things like their own insecurities they start to bring up and it probably has nothing to do with that, but that's what they start to think about. Oh, it's because I was too fat. It's because I'm not funny enough, I'm not clever enough, I'm not rich enough. I know for guys who think, you know, that they're not handsome enough or you know, it's. It absolutely goes to the person's own insecurities and they start to list the reasons it could be. So it's like in their head, they're listing all their negative points in their head. So whereas if somebody had told you, oh, look it, I just don't feel a connection, you're not going to be start to search for a reason and look for your negative as much kind of thing. Because with ghosting there's no explanation. It could be anything. So often people turn it over and over and over in their head. Yes. They're kind of like ruminating about it and sitting, sitting with those feelings. And it's kind of like the idea that where attention goes, energy flows and if you're thinking, gosh, I'm coming from a place of lack and I'm lacking in this and that's why that person left me, well, you're just going to attract more of A feeling of lack in your life. And it really does make my heart hurt to think about all the things that people sit with when it comes to being ghosted, because then they're just not true. They're just stories with this little, you know, gremlin on your shoulder telling you all these stories about yourself that are, in fact just stories and they're not truths. So I think the process of moving forward, I would suggest journaling it out. What do you think? What are your suggestions? Journaling is great for those people that are. If writing is not your thing, then maybe talking it to someone or just speaking out loud sometimes, if, you know, if writing is not for you or even speaking. I know people who've struggled with journaling before can often just speak into, like, a voice recorder on the phone to kind of let it out if they don't speak to somebody else. I think surrounding yourself with people that love you, so that could be your friends or your family or even your pets. Pets often help. If you love your pet just to feel loved, because it's so. Like you said earlier, it's so easier to go into the feeling of lack, the feeling of not being loved, of not being good enough. And so when you surround yourself with people who make you feel good, then that's going to help. And, you know, if you're listening in and you have been ghosted or, you know, you've got a fear of rejection, of it happening to you, because you've heard it happen to so many your friends. And I have clients out there who I know tune in, and they can probably relate to having a fear of rejection. And the thing is, it's never about you, and it's just about the other person. And as long as you're authentic with yourself and you communicate yourself as clearly as you can and are in tune with yourself, just put more of that out into the world and just be your best self and don't worry about whatever else happens because let's say someone does ghost you. Well, like we said, you know, in the first segment of the show, what's meant for you in life will never pass you by. And your person is definitely still out there for sure. I think it's really interesting what you said about speaking into, you know, I guess, a microphone or audio or doing a little video of yourself. I know you when. When I had a breakup, that's something that I did privately. I shared very publicly lots of other things which helped a few other people, and I've talked about that often in the show. But Something I did privately is I did little videos of, gosh, this is how I feel today. And then watching them back would motivate me to be a better version of myself the next day. Because I just think, I can't believe I'm so energetically low on this topic. And that is not me. It isn't. And anyone out there who feels in a low energy, you need to raise all those good vibes and do things that make you feel excellent. So any top tips to help people feel the best versions of themselves? Josie? Because you help women and guys step up to the love that they so deserve. So tell us a bit about what you do and how you help people be the best versions. So what I say is make a list of. I say, go for 100, but let's start with 50. 50amazing things about you. So people often say, oh, I can't think of it. I'm like, there are 50, at least. We're gonna go for 100 later. But 50 to start with. And so it could be, you know, I like my hair. I'm fun, I'm adventurous. When I'm in a relationship, I'm very loving, I'm caring, I'm generous. And, you know, as you start to write these things down that make you wonderful, you start to feel better. And believe me, the ball, you know, at first you might think, oh, I can't think of any. And then before you know it, the flow in. So, you know, instead of concentrating on the things you don't like about yourself, concentrate on those that you do love about yourself. I'm intelligent. You know, I got an A in my GCSE in maths. I don't know. It can be anything that you're proud of that makes you that. That is something good about you. And, you know, I've got a job that I love. I work. I've got a cat that I adore who adores me. Any of these kind of things, and the ball starts rolling. And believe me, you're gonna start to feel better about yourself. What you focus on expands. So focus on the good stuff. Oh, I love that what you focus on expands. And, you know, I guess it's also from a space of expansion of your, I guess, emotional intelligence about how amazing you are and not how you're lacking in something. And I think by helping them do that, you're really, I guess, raising their positive vibes. Have you seen some really good success stories off the back of doing something like that? Because people start to realize, actually, I'm a great Catch. And if somebody has ghosted them, they realize, well, their loss. Look how amazing I am. You know, their absolute loss. My man or my woman is going to appreciate my 50 things or 100. Or believe me, once you start going, the list gets longer and longer, which is great because. Because we're all wonderful. We're all wonderful in our own way. And to focus on that self love, to focus on the good stuff, you're going to attract somebody who also sees it. And you know what? Earlier on in this part of the show, we were talking about what are the feelings that people might feel if they've been ghosted? And to sum it up, I think in a nutshell, it's people just not feeling enough in a. Of anything. You know, they might be focusing on weight, finances, you know, spontaneity or longevity in that love or whatever it was. But I guess it's just the. The idea of not feeling enough for that other person. But just understand that we are enough. We're enough. As long as we're enough for ourselves, that's all that matters. You know, only compare ourselves to ourselves and not to what you think someone else wants you to be because you will be enough for the right person. Exactly. Josie May, it has been the most incredible show having you on talking about something that is a bit tricky sometimes to discuss, and it's a bit difficult for some people to hear, especially around something that happens so often. But just kind of, if you could give us a quick fire round of how to boost your confidence to get out there and find the right person for you if you've been in a ghosting situation. Okay. Yeah. So the first thing is know that most people have been ghosted at some point. This is not about you. This is about the other person. So know that from the beginning, this is not about you. The second thing is to see this as a stepping stone to your soulmate. So this guy or this girl was not right for you. And actually that takes you one step closer to the one who's going to be perfect for you. And then the third thing is to remember how fabulous you are and make a list of those things and focus on all those amazing things about you. Because when you see it, when you feel it, believe me, everyone around you is going to see it and feel it too. Oh, Josie May, I actually got butterflies when you said it's a stepping stone to finding your soulmate. Because, you know, it happens. You know, people disappear. They do this Houdini, but you're just then one step closer to finding the right person for you. And I'm just so excited that we've been here sharing this information today. Thank you so much, Josie Mae. Oh, my pleasure. It's been so lovely to be here. Yay. All the way from Manchester. Okay. Lovely. I'm Sarah Louise Ryan. Thank you so much for tuning in to Love Lessons live. This is the show where we talk about health and well being in dating, relationships, marriage all the way to divorce and starting again as a confident single. 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