Get Booked – ‘No Fourth River’ By Christine Clayfield

Sa. Thank you for joining us here at women's radio station. It's an absolute, absolute honor to have you here. I can't wait to get cracking. I've got so many questions for you and the book that we're here to chat about. No, 4th river it's all about survival and abuse, determination, which is for me the main theme in this, in this book being strong entrepreneurial spirit and forgiveness. It's all true and it's all about you. Please tell us a little bit more about how long it took you to write FOURTH river okay, well, thank you very much for that lovely introduction. You are welcome. Absolute pleasure to be here. First, I would like to just mention two things. I was born in Belgium and I've lived there for about 30 years. And I lived in the UK now for about 25 years. So that explains my accent. The second thing I always like to mention is that I've got a deep low voice. A lot of people call me sir and according to one specialist, that is actually a direct result of child trauma. So I just want to mention that. Now your question about my book, how long did it take? Probably altogether about two years. But when I had, my mom actually moved in with me before she had, when she started her last stages of dementia and my book was virtually finished just before mom moved in. So I've lost about six to eight months because I couldn't write. Looking after mum was like a full time job and too exhausting to write. Yeah. So altogether, I would say two years, but a long time taken out in between. And it's an incredible book. I've just finished it myself. I recommend it to absolutely anybody because it's not just a story about what happened to you, it's about finding that determination and the survival instinct and forgiveness. I think I actually found. I was reading the book and I was finding myself getting angry for you and I was getting angry that you were being so forgiving and so open minded. But I guess that's where you're where you are and I'm where I am. Because you've achieved incredible things in the last 30 years of your life. It's been unbelievable. Can you tell us a little bit more about. I mean, you were the first woman in Belgium to, well, first person in Belgium to bring computers about. Apple and everything. You saw a market. This is what's incredible about you. You seem to reign in on all these incredible markets and fly with them. Yeah, that is actually true. After I decided to change my life, a person appeared that I never actually knew was inside me because of I've had over 20 years of abuse and being put down and layers and layers and layers of pain and misery covering my. Not really knowing who was actually inside and under all those layers. So I discovered the businesswoman in me when I decided, that's it, I'm changing my life, I've had enough, everything will change. And I did. I found myself, even to date, good in spotting business opportunities, good in spotting gaps in the market. And indeed, in Belgium, those days, computers, everybody wanted one and nobody had one. So it was a massive opportunity to build a good business, which is indeed what I did. Became one of the biggest Apple dealers in Belgium. So, yeah, that is correct. But don't forget, it was really, really, really hard work. And I had to work a lot in the background in trying to peel away those layers of pain. And instead of every time I peeled a layer of pain away, I would replace it with a layer of achievement. So that was also very important. But I did it. Yes, that is correct. I think there's one gap in the market you've missed. Which one's that? Finding a way to clone Richard, your husband. I'll take one of those, please. That would be brilliant if that would be possible. I don't think he can be cloned because he's just a darling of her husband. He's just a star and my rock and my support. Yeah, I don't want him cloned. He's mine. Well, so not fair. I mean, did you find writing the book cathartic, reminding yourself just of what you have achieved? It was, in a way. But more importantly, I think for my mom and dad, the relationship with my dad is a complex one. And when I translated the letter I wrote dad into English, because obviously I wrote it in Flemish at the time. It was a special moment for me and also a moment of satisfaction for myself, knowing that I'm now completely at ease with my dad. Before I wrote the book, I already accepted my past and moved on. But having written does somehow make me feel at ease with mom and dad, and even for mom as well. I didn't treat mom when I left home. I didn't even consider how she would feel. But when she was older, I did everything I could for her. And then I looked after her when she had her dementia. So again, writing all that down, what made me feel good about what I did and how I actually put it right, I disagree that you didn't treat her well. I think you did so much more than what anybody else would ever, ever expect of you emotionally, I think it's. But it just shows your strength of character, which I think is remarkable. Yeah, I mean, that's up for debate. Obviously, in my opinion, there were a series of years where I could have looked after Mum more and could have worried about her more, but because of all the misery I went through, I got into drinking and then you just don't have the right mindset anyway and you don't think, oh, I gotta look after Mum. Sadly enough, I didn't think that way, but I'm glad I put it all right. And Mum also completely, utterly understood me. So that's also very important. There's a great saying that I like. We're not a tree, we can move, we can change. Yes, I do love that. Yes, that is true. One of the things I did well, I loved the whole book anyway, but every single chapter came with. It started off with a quote. And they were the thing. That's what I look forward to at the start because obviously, you know, I had to look after my kids and do this and that and whatever. And you always try and stop at the end of a chapter, try and absorb what's happened. And I was always looking forward. And I never ever read the quote before I was starting that chapter and it was something that I was really looking forward to. Oh, really? Yeah. A bit like waiting for the next episode of Coronation Street. That's such a nice thing to say. Thank you. I just am a quote person myself. I love quotes. I think after. Again, after I started to change my life, I went to a lot of sales courses, read a lot of books, and I've got offices and boards full of quotes. I mean, in my office is an enormous board and all my quotes that I love are on there. Same boards are on the. We used to be on the entrance of my kids bedrooms thinking. Because those quotes, they just work. I think they really work. There's so much truth in them. So, yeah, I'm glad you like them. That's really good to hear. It's good to have all these visual representations and things that. Cause one of your main things is you do have an incredibly positive mindset, which is incredible in this day and age anyway. And something actually that. What the light brings to the listener's attention is when you decided to change your life. You put what you wanted in purple, what you wanted up on the wall and you achieved every single thing to do everything that was in that picture frame. And it's about just visualizing what you want to happen and what you Want to see around you. And that's why it's good to have all these particular quotes. I think they're amazing. I think that's why people quite like Instagram. Yes. Yeah, I agree. That could well be. Yes, it's full of quotes. Definitely. It's full of quotes and visual representations of just, you know, what we might inspire to. And I do like that people can see pictures, extra pictures, but they have to read the book first. Yes, I know. I've done it that way. I like that. I'm not gonna say where they can find them. They've got to read the book to figure it out. Yeah. The reason I did that, I'd actually added that to the book afterwards after, like, I printed it first or I published it first. Cause I had a few, I don't know what you call these people. Negative people, I think would be the best thing emailing me. So that's just not true. You can't achieve all that. I can think of other names we could call them. So I say, well, okay, if some people feel that way, I can understand it because I have actually, without being begetted, achieved more than an average person in business life and otherwise. But I thought if people think that way, I've got to do something about it. So that's why I've introduced my book in pictures or my Life in pictures. And that seems to work because people can actually see everything that I've written in the book of the achievements are in there in pictures. So it does make a big difference. It does. But people are opinionated no matter what, and sometimes they just do it for the sake of just being cruel or whatever they want to be. You can't try. And I don't think anybody should ever live their lives based on trying to worry about other people's opinions. No, no. Because talking about, quote, one of a quote that I definitely or one of a saying that I definitely believe in is I don't know what the secret is to success in business, but I do know that the guaranteed failure is trying to please everybody. Because you just can't do it. You can't do it and you'll waste too much time. You need to use that energy somewhere else. Yeah, that's true. And another thing that I want to know, which is, I hope the answer is no. Have you ever confronted the nuns? I have not, no. There's several reasons for that, really. First of all, when I was five, I was dumped in the boarding school and the nuns were already probably in their 50s. So at the time I realized what happened to me just was not quite right, was not acceptable at all. The nuns would have probably been in their 80s. But the main reason, I believe is that two other reasons. First of all, I've been brought up with Catholic principles. That means you have to forgive and forget. So I forgave them. In my mind, I forgave the nuns for what they've done to me, however traumatic it was. I even tried to understand them, but I never achieved that. But another thing that I just. I'm not the sort of person that is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Because if the whole world would do that, we would all be blind and we would never. We couldn't eat properly. So it'd be pretty bad place to be. So I'm just not like that. I'm glad I never did. And I also do not at all feel the urge to do so. Court cases, lawyers, I mean, what is the point? Again, that's just what makes you you and what makes you the success that you've been. Now we're just gonna pop over to a quick break and we'll be back in a few minutes with this week's guest, Christine Clayfield discussing her new new novel, no Fourth River. WRS Women's radio station, Voice of women Worldwide, Sarah's Universal Soul Show. What does your soul or spirituality mean to you? Welcome to future classical Woman awards with me, Stefania Passamonte on women's radio station. Welcome back, I'm Russ Cain. You're listening to in conversation with on women's radio station. I'm Angie. And I'm Patsy. And we're open. To see what other programs we have on women's radio station, head to our website womensradiostation.com hi, my name is Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. This is a new vibrant brand connecting women socially. Our club members enjoy great food, fun and inspiring speakers while making friends of all generations. If you're a social butterfly in your community, this fast growing franchise may be for you. Or we invite national companies to advertise within our closed network of members. Please visit LiveLaughladies Club. I'm Tamina Zaman, founder of Empower and Enrich. When it comes to money, do you clam up or get confused? Do you wish you could save more money or are you hoping you have enough for retirement? You are not alone. Many women want to be smarter with their cash but just don't know where to start@empowerandenrich.org you will find a host of options to help you take charge of your finances and learn how to put your money to work for you in an easy, affordable way. Get in touch with me@empowerandenrich.org and let's change your future together. Women's Radio Station Voice of Women Worldwide presents future Classic Women Awards nominations concert Friday 23rd November at 7pm hosted by me, Stefania Passamonte with some of the most amazing nominees we heard so far on the program. It will be St. James Catholic Church, Marylebone. Please join us for a fantastic evening of classical music. Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship, or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help. Visit turntous.org.uk WRS Women's Radio Station Voice of Women Worldwide Women's radio station is a not for profit community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help. I'm Hazel and this is get booked for Women's Radio Station. Welcome to the second half of today's show. We've been chatting to Christine Clayfield discussing her novel no 4th river and we were just talking about one of the streams, should we say one of the rivers, the nuns. And how your strength of character, how you just want to. You don't want to dwell on the past, you want to just dwell. You've dwelled on the. You have been all about your future and you've had an incredible working life. There's no fourth. There's an excellent introduction to new Fourth River. If you can just help one person change their life, then you've achieved your purpose of sharing your own story to save them. A river of tears, which is where the title no Fourth river comes from, because there's been three major elements in your life that have caused you abhorrent pain. And no Fourth Rivers. When you made the decision that you were not going to cry anymore and that you were just going to get up and just excel, which you did. Can you tell us some of the incredible businesses you've set up? We did before talk about finding a gap in the market with computers in Belgium, but you moved to England to be with your now husband, Richard. And please tell us about some of the gaps in the market that you filled and exist. Okay. Well, obviously the business life started in Belgium, where I had a Apple dealership, and then also after I had a wholesaler distributing computers to dealers, because obviously I knew the dealer market, so I knew how that worked after a while. But then when we moved to England, as I didn't know the English market all that well, I sort of got a job first in Eurotunnel, believe it or not, just to think about and to analyze the English market, what was going on, what was missing. And then I realized there were a lot of things missing, actually. But one of the other things was that when I moved over from Belgium to England, my daughters were roughly six months, and I had a baby respiration monitor that I rented from the hospital because they were born premature and those machines tend to try or help prevent cough death. And I couldn't find one in England at all. I could only find one I could buy for like 6, 700 pounds. But there was no system where I could rent one at a reasonable price. So I immediately said to my husband, well, there's a gap in the market here, isn't there? I mean, there's like 20 times as many people or 10 times as many people here as it was in Belgium. It sells well in Belgium. Why would it not sell well here? There's a lot more births here. So actually that was my first business I started here, is developing a baby respiration monitor, which was, again, not easy because there's loads and loads of medical certificates that need to be approved. But I went through all the different steps. I went to hospitals to ask, what do you want? What's important for you? What do parents think? What is important for parents? And combined with all that investigation, I eventually came up with a monitor that was for sale absolutely everywhere. Not for sale, that was used in all the major hospitals with baby care unit in the uk. And then the good business model there was that the mothers who had the baby saw the monitor being used on the baby and said, oh, I want one of them, because. And then the hospitals would refer them to me. There's also the. There were a lot more companies involved in cot death that would also send everybody to us. So that was the first company. Then we also did cholesterol testing at the time. That was a really big thing. And then at some point, when my children were about, I don't know how old exactly, say, three, four years, the tradition in Belgium is with St. Nicholas. 6 December. You give your children every Christmas a tiny little chocolate figure. They're the hollow figures. The hollow figures. And I just couldn't find anything similar in the area where I live. Ding. Here comes another. And then I thought, well, surely the kids will love it here too. I'm gonna import them. And I was lucky. I obviously know the language. So I started to import those t. Tiny little figures. And then because it was Belgian chocolate, I started to sell it to shops. Shops started to ask me, oh, do you Belgian chocolates as well? No, but I can easily get them. I'll have them tomorrow if you want. So it escalated from there and now I'm now one of the biggest importers of confectionery in the uk. Just like that? Not just like that. With loads a load. That's the part I skipped. And you can't get across in an interview with flipping hard work. Do you know what, though? It comes across in your book, you make it very, very clear that you worked 18 hours a day. You were sending emails. Pretty much going down the aisle. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You've seen that. You've seen those pictures as well. On my wedding day, I was doing deals, computer deals. And my husband, he just loved it. That's just typical you. I love it. Some other guy would say, what the hell do you think you're doing? This is your wedding day. Yeah. But you made it very clear in the interview process with him that he needed to be accepting of how you were going to be. And I did tell you slightly earlier off that it is the section in your book about your wedding day that made me late to pick up my kids. Cause I just walked onto any old train because I wasn't concentrating. About six stops somewhere else in southwest London because I was just so engrossed. And again, it really was the best day of your life, Particularly the end that day. Yeah. Yeah, completely. It was incredible. At one point I was thinking, do I just stay on this train and get an Uber? But I had to mess about and. But it was fine. It was just. It was incredible. It's such a. It's a fearless book. And I just. I would urge anybody to read it just so they can, you know, if you're an inspiration, but you inspire people to just get on with it, just to use some determination, some fearlessness, and just make something of your life. There's so many people that dwell on the past, and I think one of the things is actually is your determination. It's like you were trying to keep your mind busy. And I assume that was part of your success. Yes, that was definitely, definitely a big thing. Because the way I looked at it is I, at the end of it obviously was my violent husband, but he. Can we just date? It was your first husband, not your current husband's final husband. He just, I looked at it as he did not deserve the space in my mind. Just the day is only as long as the day is. And there's only a certain number of thoughts that you can process. If you sit in a corner and cry, all your thoughts will be negative. Therefore all your actions will be negative. The thing I did is, no, it doesn't deserve it. I'm going to concentrate on getting busy, getting the things done on my list. And there was simply quite often just no space in my mind, no time left in my mind to think about him. So all the negative thoughts are replaced with positivity, with trying to achieve things. And that's exactly what. And also a message that I would send to people who have been or are in a bad place. Negative. You need to replace all negativity in your mind by positive things. But that's so hard though. One of the things that there's so many things I like about the book, but it's just once you get the negative thought cycle, you can't just think about something else. It just keeps on being interrupted and you can't do it. Whereas this book says, yeah, I've been there, but if I can do it, you can do it. And it just shows people that they should just find a way. Yeah, it's the list that's important. I think making that list or making a list for other people, for me it just worked really well. I made that list, I hung some pictures of the things I wanted to achieve on that list. And when you tell yourself, I will achieve all this, you have to make an action plan. An action plan that involves steps to do it. With putting all those things into action, you are busy. You're always busy, busy, busy. Okay, well, I want a house with great big bedroom security. How much that going to cost me? Well, I need to earn that. How am I going to earn that? I'm going to start there, then that, then that you go backwards to go forwards. Kind of. Yeah, yeah, you got analyze all those things, make the list how you're going to do it. Write the steps down and start implementing rather than sit in the corner. Yeah, but too many people blame their past or other people or the economy for what they are today. You can't do that. You are responsible for your own life. See this? No Filth river is such a great example of just how to action this into your life. It's so many questions that I wanted to ask you. I've hardly got through any of them. And there was some quotes that I'd picked out that I absolutely loved as well. So I'm gonna have to put them up all on the Instagram and kind of make sure that we make it easy for people to listen to the show again and again. The Instagram's getbooked wrs and I really. There's so much I wanted to ask you. I feel like I need to do another interview at some point. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you. I wish you all the best of luck with no fourth river. And everybody can get it from anywhere. Go on to noforthriver.com or you can go onto Amazon and I'll put the links up on my Instagram, on my Twitter. And I hope you'll come in again and talk to us more about your next book. Oh, I'll be quite happy to. And I want to thank you a lot for the opportunity here. And it was my total pleasure. Hope the listeners will enjoy it. Thank you very much. I'm sure they will. Thank you. Thank you for joining us this week. I'll be back next week with lashings of book news, reviews, interviews and everything and anything book related. It's what we do here at Women's Radio Station. Foreign. The voice of women worldwide. Hungry an average woman eats about 2 to 3 kilos of lipstick in her lifetime. Women's Radio Station, we want to hear from you. This is Women's Radio Station. You're listening to Avril Price with Kitchen Sink Spirituality. It's Anna Kennedy talking all things autism. And my guest today is Karen Nunn. I listen to Women's Radio Station Women. The possibilities are endless. That's what makes us different. Hi, I'm Valentina Barbacci and I'm the executive director of Media Matters for Women. We're a registered charity operating in Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo, and we produce and share podcasts via Bluetooth on mobile phones, focusing specifically on women and girls excluded from information due to extreme poverty. We empower those living in rural areas with media that transforms how they access, own and share information. To find out more and be part of this movement, come check out our website@mediamattersforwomen.org. Women's Radio Station is passionate about communication and we'd love any thoughts and feedback on our programs. Email presentersomensradiostation.com if there's a topic you'd like to hear about or want to contact your favourite presenter, do get in touch. WRS women's radio station Voice of Women Worldwide Are you struggling with money? Turn to us as a national charity helping people struggling to make ends meet. Job loss, illness or bereavement can cause a real financial crisis. We give practical help to get people back on track. Whether you're thinking of having a baby, trying to get out of an unhappy relationship or just unsure what benefits you may be entitled to, we can help visit turntous.org.uk Let me tell you about Jermyn Street Theatre. This is a secret theatre in the heart of the West End. Welcome. Once found, never forgotten. This is where careers ignite, where playwrights take risks, where great actors perform just feet away from the audience. This is where magic happens. We would love you to join our mailing list or become a sponsor or just buy a ticket to one of our shows. The website is www.germanstreettheater.co.uk. Women's Radio Station is a not for profit, community interest company. Supporting women is our passion. We're currently welcoming donations to help towards our running costs to keep this important initiative alive. To donate, simply head to our website. Every little will help.