In this thought-provoking episode of Fit, Fabulous & 50 Plus, host Margaret Tully tackles the pervasive issue of ageism with guests Maggie Saunders, an accomplished actor and voiceover artist, and Julia Gibbs, a proofreader who’s embraced learning new skills. The trio explore how women over 50 are rarely depicted as ordinary people living vibrant lives on screen, instead being forced into stereotypical roles as either glamorous exceptions or crisis-stricken figures. They challenge the damaging language we use about aging—words like “frail,” “past it,” and “over the hill”—arguing that ageist language should be called out with the same urgency as racist or sexist remarks.
A highlight of the conversation centers on how dance and learning new skills at any age combat stereotypes and boost cognitive health. Both Maggie and Julia share inspiring stories of taking up ballet and piano respectively in their 50s and 60s, proving that age is no barrier to pursuing passion and joy. The episode also delves into the complicated relationship many women have with aging visibly, particularly around hair color and appearance. The hosts question why women feel compelled to maintain a youthful appearance and challenge the casting industry’s insistence on gray hair for “older woman” roles—a stereotype that doesn’t reflect reality, since most women in their demographic dye their hair.
Main Topics
Women over 50 are rarely represented as normal people living ordinary lives; instead they're depicted as either glamorously exceptional or dealing with a crisis
Ageist language such as 'frail,' 'past it,' 'over the hill,' and 'decrepit' should be treated as unacceptable as racist or sexist language
Backhanded compliments like 'you look good for your age' and 'you look young for 60' are subtly diminishing and give a false sense of permission
Taking up new skills like dance and music at 50+ improves cognitive function and fights cognitive decline, with research showing dancing specifically enhances brain performance
The casting industry perpetuates harmful stereotypes by requiring older actresses to have gray hair and conform to narrow depictions of aging women
Women's complicated relationship with visible aging reflects internalized ageism and societal pressure rather than personal preference
Living authentically and pursuing joy through activities like dance and learning is the antidote to ageist attitudes
Full TranscriptHello and welcome to Fit, Fabulous and 50 Plus with me, Margaret Tully, on Women's Radio Station. Fit, Fabulous and 50 P...▼
Hello and welcome to Fit, Fabulous and 50 Plus with me, Margaret Tully, on Women's Radio Station. Fit, Fabulous and 50 Plus is for all of us who feel vibrant, sexy and fabulous and want to shout about it. Now today I want to talk about ageism. What does that mean? Who does it affect and how does it manifest itself in our language, attitudes and beliefs? Well, today I'm really delighted I'm joined in the studio by two friends. One very old friend, if I can say that, and one, uh, newer friend but equally a lovely friend, Maggie Saunders, who is an actor, voiceover artist, workshop leader, and improviser. She's appeared in numerous serial soaps and films over the years. So Maggie, I'm going to start with you. Okay. The reason I'm starting with you is, like you, I'm an actress. And I believe I was called to this profession because it's my heart's desire to represent women in a positive light. However, women after 50 in America and the UK are very rarely represented in a positive light. How do you— I think they're very rarely represented as people. Um, I think that the fallacy is that you're either old and a granny or you're old and glamorous. And there isn't anything in between. So we can think of marvellously glamorous women like Helen Mirren, who I have admired as an actor all my life and is incredibly glamorous as a 70-year-old, or we can think about old people with grey hair who are exactly the same age and there doesn't seem to be anything in between. To be a normal woman of 50, 60, 70 who lives her life and enjoys her life, and that's what I'd like to see more of. So if you could wave a magic wand and you would like yourself to be depicted on television, how would you— who would you— first of all, who would you like? Who would you play yourself, or would you like— obviously I want to play myself, obviously. Who could you see playing you and making it credible? Making it credible. There are many. I mean, I actually, I don't think I could name a particular— mainly because due to my age, I always forget names of people. I can see people's faces in front of me as I'm speaking and I remember their names. No, so I'm not going to name anyone. That's, that's definitely to do with aging. I would like to see women who are over 50 and doing normal things, not, not in some kind of crisis. There always seems to be a crisis to do with a child or a husband, a failed marriage. Some kind of dreadful thing is happening at us, and not always does this happen. Yeah, and we're recovering, we're finding ourselves, we're We're being rebirthed in some way where we're claiming back a lot of— I don't want to claim back anything. I just want to carry on dancing. That's what I want to do until my arthritic knees finally give up. Now I'm going to now introduce Julia on that subject. Julia Gibbs, who is a good friend of mine and works as a proofreader now. And the reason I'm bringing you in at this point, Julia, is you've started dancing. I started going to adult beginners ballet classes when I was about 58, never having done it before. And I've asked other people sometimes to come with me, and they go, "Oh, I couldn't do that. I'm too old. I've never done it before." And I say, "I've never done it before either." And there are a couple of women in that class who are over 70. So just try. And it's very good for keeping you supple, whatever age you are. So I would recommend it. I, I've taken up piano, right? And I'm doing my Grade 1. I'm 58. I'm doing my Grade 1 piano, and I want to just keep learning new things. What have you learned in the last few years that has made you excited? And, and how have you— have you come across any, any prejudice or any discrimination in that area where you've taken on a new skill? I— well, I'm like Julia. I started dancing seriously when I was 50. I've always wanted to be a dancer, and as an actor, movement's really important. Um, but at drama school, I was put in the dunce's dance class, and I remember standing and facing a wall and dancing to Barry Manilow, thinking, this is just hell, this is just absolute hell. And dancing's not like that. So at 50, I met the most fabulous dance teacher called Fiona Leonard, who has a company called Just dance. And it's through her that I've become a dancer. And I would say I am a dancer now. And I, um, I practice it 4 or 5 times a week if I can when I'm not working. And the most exciting thing was to be able to do Latin dancing unaccompanied. You don't need a partner. Is that Fit Steps? No, it's another wonderful dance teacher who teaches Latin without a partner, because that's another story. I love Latin dancing as well. It's absolutely fab, isn't it? I love it so much. It's joy. The minute you hear the music, you just want to dive in there. My kids saw me dancing. My daughter's a jazz singer and she was singing at a club, and her friends got me up dancing, and I was busy dancing with them and having a great time. And at the end of it, my two sons said to me, yeah, you're still embarrassing, and you can dance, we'll give you that. So that was that. Fantastic. But I think dancing, dancing brings huge joy, and it doesn't matter how old you are, and it does fight Alzheimer's for sure. So they say. We don't— I don't really know, but I'd be willing to give it a go. I think it does. Yeah, can't see why not. Apparently it's because of having to put your body and your mind through the same but different things. It helps, um, link up the sides. Yeah, my dance teacher says you use a different part of your brain, and so that's got to help cognitively. Apparently after— they've done some research, and after you've danced, you are much brighter cognitively having danced than any other sport. Well, I was pretty clever beforehand. Dynamite. Fabulous. Right, so if we go back to the subject today, ageism, um, what I find fascinating is that it's kind of embedded in our ideology that we don't challenge it the same way as if we get racist language or sexist language. We, we we jump all over it, okay? However, you can hear words every day such as they're frail, they're past it, they're over the hill, decrepit, diminished, and it diminishes our value as older adults. So I think these phrases, these terms, I think we need to become really hot at calling people out on it and making it as unacceptable as racist or sexist language. I agree, I agree, Margaret. Yes, I do. Um, my first thought is— well, it's quite a long time ago now, but Gloria Steinem, when somebody told her she looked really good for 40, that's a really veiled insult, isn't it? And she famously said, 'This is what 40 looks like.' Or people say, 'Oh, you look good for 60.' I go, 'That's very kind of you, but I just look a form of 60. Yes, there are different— you can't seriously look at me and say there's no way on this earth I'm 60 years old, because that would be weird. Um, it's just, again, yeah, this is what 60 looks like, or 61 in my case. Yes, by saying that, for your age, yeah, it's diminishing. It's, it's, it's, it's almost giving you some sort of permission. Yeah, like doing you a big favor, love. Yeah, yeah, you're all right for your age. Yeah, but, uh, you, you know this for-your-age rubbish. Yeah, well, I think what's interesting is why, as we grow older, particularly women, as we grow older, we are so thrilled when someone says— but for me, I hit 60 last November, and of course I get a massive frisson when I announce that, and people can't possibly be, and I go, oh, oh, but I am, you know. I mean, why, why do I care so much that I look younger than my age? Why can I not go, this is what my version, as you said, Julia, my version of 60 looks like. This is what a 60-year-old woman looks like. And yet if I'm being represented as an actor on stage or on film, particularly if you're 60, you're, you're looking older, or you're looking like you've had a life. And I know I look like I've had a life, but it's my life. Would be weird if we didn't. We would be— yeah. Don't you find that people casting us, or people wanting to put a 60-year-old on the stage or in a film, is asking you to adhere to a stereotype that they have created. I'm sure it is, yes. Yeah. And that makes me furious. Well, I've been told, oh no, you're too young for a 60-year-old part. And I go, but yeah, this, this is 60. This is— but I am, I am 60, so how can I be too young for it? And you bring up the issue, Maggie, of I don't know if you brought it up today, or we've talked about it before, because about grey hair. Absolutely. So what is this about? If you're going to be playing a woman over 50, you have to be a granny and you have to have grey hair. Yeah. Oh, well, I actually have a wig. I bought myself a wig because there was something in me that couldn't quite bear to go grey and to look grey-haired. Now, that's— that's— I have to question why that's an issue for me, why I'm so keen to keep my brown hair. And I know that the work I do— I could do quite a lot of work on dementia, and I've been asked, please, could you— we'd really love it if you had gray hair. Now, you can get dementia with blonde hair, yeah, red hair, brown hair, or gray hair. And yet the, the kind of the classic older woman is with gray hair. But we three late women sitting here— all have brown hair. Yes, we do. I defy any woman in this room to say she doesn't dye her hair, because we do. We do, yeah. And on that subject, we're going to take a short break and we're going to come right back onto the issue of grey or not grey. Thank you very much. Hollywood Babes is a unique ladieswear boutique situated in Thorpe Bay Broadway in Southend-on-Sea. 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Our tutors cover a range of subjects as well as all major school exams and university entry. Lessons are tailored to the student's individual needs to ensure the best learning experience. For more information, visit www.newsquaretutors.com or check out the Women's Radio Station website. We care about social change within communities around the world, and we want to help. This is why Women's Radio Station is giving free airtime to all charities. For more details on charity advertising, visit our website at www.womensradiostation.com. And welcome back. Um, here we are again, uh, Fit, Fabulous and 50+. We were talking about the issue of gray, uh, gray hair, and, um, we all in this studio today have chosen not to let our hair go grey. Personally, I just— my skin tone, I just— it doesn't work for me. I tried it, I've tried it. I did a very drastic thing a few years ago where I actually cut off all my hair and wore a wig because I wanted it to grow out, and I left it about half an inch underneath to see, and it grew out and it just looked terrible on me because my skin is very pale, I'm very delicate skin tones, and it just didn't work. So then I went back to colouring my hair. So the fact that the parts we were offered are for these old grey— nothing wrong with being old, nothing wrong with being grey, but we're asked to put on that persona when we don't— I don't feel that way. No, I don't feel that way either. Yeah, and I feel like I'm battling, so But I question whether we should do it. I mean, what is it? Because most men do not have the faff of every month or 4 weeks looking— 3 weeks for me, by the way. 3 weeks. It is actually, if I'm honest, 3 weeks. Yeah. To be fair. You know, when the grey hair comes back, men don't seem to worry about that too much. And in fact, if I'm honest, when I see a man who has definitely dyed his hair, I go, 'What's wrong with you?' Yeah, and that's terribly— Italian men do, by the way. Italian men of all ages do. Older Italian men do color their hair, yeah, and they don't think there's anything unmasculine about it. They're just vain. Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Sorry to all the Italians out there. Sorry, sorry. Well, you know, we're free. No, but one of my dad's friends, he's, um, owned a restaurant. He had to be 70-ish and he had very obviously dyed hair, and I just thought it was quite charming. I just thought, oh, you wouldn't really see many English women— English men doing that, would you? He just thought he looked better like that, which is what you say. You think it suits your skin tone. It suits my skin tone. However, I like Maggie. When I see a man my age— I won't say an older gentleman because he's not older than me— someone my age who has salt and pepper hair, I find it quite attractive. Yes, absolutely. But we're programmed to Genetically, surely, this is like the person, older, wiser person who will look after, you know, tell the family what to do. That must be— we must be programmed to respect it in men, I would think. I'm not saying this is not sexist or anything, or ageist. I just think it might well be. I just find them quite attractive. George Clooney is gorgeous. Oh my God, I don't know what women see in George Clooney, but that's a whole side issue. I mean, it's one of those people I can see is attractive, but I know Well, I remember when my husband started going grey and he had a lovely hairdresser and he went to her and said, I'm just bothered, I think I want to have— want to colour my hair. And she looked at him and she said, that will be a lifelong, you know, fag for you. You'll be coming in here every 4 weeks. Just don't do it. Just don't do it. Now, if that was what we believed as women, that just don't do it, whatever happens to your hair, just let it go, I think we'd be a lot freer. I think we make a lot of rods for our own backs. We do, yeah. And yeah, because with the coloring of the hair comes— my roots are showing. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And like, they don't guess that I've colored my hair and I've kept it this huge secret, you know. Um, but I mean, coloring your hair, putting makeup on, having facials, having Botox, wearing something nice rather than just chucking on the same thing every day— some of us are very judgmental of others, and others And I think it would be a wonderful world if we just allowed everyone to do what they wanted to do. Yes, exactly. Yeah. But just don't tell me I've got to go grey. Yeah, but just don't touch that. I'm actually going to go grey. I've had a long conversation with my hairdresser and we've worked out a plan because I didn't want the grey growing down. Oh, I know, it's an effort, isn't it? Yeah, so we've worked out a plan. But anyway, this isn't a hairdressing program, so I won't go into it. But it's a long chore. It's a— yeah. Well, I said to my hairdresser, I was thinking of going grey, she went, "Oh no, oh no," because basically she'd have to turn me grey in order to let me grey, so I'd have to be dyed grey. Yeah. And it was just— yeah, it's a long thing. Or have it cut off. One of the lovely things I'm noticing though are the young people going grey. It looks beautiful. It looks amazing where they're colouring their hair, but they colour it this incredible shade of grey. Yes. There's many different shades of grey. There are. Mine are not— my shade is not a great one for me. Well, do you remember about 20— so about 10 years ago, Nora Ephron wrote an article. She— well, she wrote a book, a series of articles called I Feel Bad About My Neck, which was all about being just over 60 and how she thought her neck made her look really old and how she wished she didn't feel that way. And she said the number one reason she felt why women were doing better in the workplace these days is hair dye. She said that she once went to lunch somewhere in New York with a lot of women friends her age and one woman who'd just come out of prison for whatever. The woman who'd just come out of prison was the only person with grey hair in the whole place because she hadn't had access to hair dye. And everybody else, all these older ladies who lunch, were all— had all dyed their hair. So that's sort of what you have to do these days apparently to get on. And it's like you said, Maggie, if you get, you know, they won't cast you as a 60-year-old and you say, but I am. But if they don't want what they then perceive as the stereotypical glam 60-year-old, they want an old one. So you've got to be white-haired then, please. Thank you. That'd be great. So you could be grandma. What about that? I don't remember what films it was, but quite famously, um, what's her name? Sally, that actress who went, thank you. Yeah, she played Tom Hanks' girlfriend, 10 years later she's playing his mother in something because, oh, she's too old. Yeah. She can't play his girlfriend anymore, she's too old, she's playing his mum. That takes me right back to the Hollywood thing about the man can age but then his love interest has to be 20 years younger. Yes, and it's not only accepted, it's seen as normal. And it's seen as normal. Or 30 years younger. Or 30 years younger, and a woman closer to his age is told you're too old to play his love interest, someone who's 20 years older than you. Yes, we want you to be— hmm, you can be his nice platonic friend, his mate. However, the James Bond film where that beautiful, incredible Italian actress— yes, yes, she's over 50, she's over 50— and one of the comments, I think either one of the award shows, said there should be a prize given out that he actually had a love interest his own age. So they made the point, they, they kind of used that to make a political point, which I loved. I just want to, um, go back to a little bit of the fact that older women in the media, in our profession of acting, film, whatever— unattractive, bitter, unhappy, and unsuccessful. And that goes back to what you said, why can't we just be normal people? That has an impact on our self-image and it brings up thoughts of disgust. Now, how kind are we to each other? If we see someone who is our age looking their age, we think they look terrible. Come on, let's— we think we've— come on, let themselves go. Yeah, and we're quite harsh critics of each other. We are. I don't think as women we're particularly kind. And I remember when my daughter was very small, looking at her and thinking, gosh, you're in rehearsal for the bitches that we all become. And they rehearse themselves. Little girls rehearse. And I don't think we're kind to each other. I don't think we're accepting. And I will own that I am very judgmental. She's put a bit of weight on. Is she not looking after herself? You know, that's a dreadful thing to think about. And that's not what men, I think, think about each other. They're too busy with other issues. And I think the whole thing about weight gain as you get older is a normal part of growing older, and yet we frown on it and we will do anything and we'll have a faddy diet or we'll do anything rather than be the dumpy older woman that we don't want to become. Sale, sale, sale at Queen Style Furniture! Up to 50% off all our furniture styles. We've got new And traditional styles. Italian style. And German styles. Styles for your living room. Or styles for your bedroom. 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Some of us, some of us just go with the flow, but you know, because we can't cut off a lot of people that are just happy with who they are in whatever skin they're given. But yeah, yeah, we— I agree with you. I work in schools quite often and you see these little clusters of girls excluding one of their friends, strategically making them feel ostracized, using anger in a passive way. Yes. And gossiping and whispering and, and the boys are out kicking the football around. Yeah. And coming in saying, 'Someone punched me,' and then they shake hands. I mean, yes, so I completely get it. I think we need to be much more generous of each other and of what we live our lives through. I mean, we all have a different journey. I mean, I had 3 children That was my choice and I'm very happy I did. That's a different journey from a lot of my actress friends who didn't. Their journeys are different and I think we need to be accepting of whatever decisions we make or have made for us because of circumstances and less judgmental about the whole aging process. Yeah, and we're going to take a break in a minute. I just want to come— when we come back, I want to talk about how to be kinder to ourselves. Yes, and to ourselves, to ourselves, because ultimately that will then leak out or filter out to the wider community and to the community of women that we want to talk to today. So we're going to take a break and we'll be back. And how can you be kinder to ourselves and to each other? Thank you. Women's Radio Station will give a voice to your brand. Advertise your product, services, or goods on air with a package tailored to suit you. For more information, Visit womensradiostation.com. Hi, I'm Michelle Bartlett, the founder of Live Laugh Love Ladies Club. We're looking for ladies to link arms across the globe. 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IBS is a complex, life-changing, long-term condition. Symptoms will vary from person to person and include abdominal pain, diarrhoea, constipation, or both, bloating and swelling, excessive wind, and the need to rush to the toilet. IBS can often lead to feelings of isolation and severely impact people's working and personal lives. Suffering alone with IBS can be devastating. Our charity, the IBS Network, helps people every day. We receive no NHS or government funding. By donating just £2 per month, you will be part of the IBS Network community of support. You'll be able to contact an IBS medical expert and you will help others like you to live well with IBS. To find out more, please visit theibsnetwork.org or call us on 0114 272 3253. Okay, so we're back with being kind, how to be kind. Before we go on to that subject, I just want to say please get in touch if you have experienced discrimination because of your age, or please get into the conversation if you have any positive experiences to share. Because actually, I want to bring Julia back on that before we go on to being kind. Remind me, um, I was really excited when I spoke to you initially about, uh, this whole, uh, subject because you said you, in your work, and you've worked as a proofreader, you've worked in businesses, you've worked in the entertainment business, you found your age actually went in your favor. Could you talk about that a little bit? I'd say before I was 40, and I'm not an actress, I wasn't a performer, but I worked in the entertainment world music and television, youth was regarded as an asset. You were hip, happening, knew what was going on. Now, in my later years, I now— I'm a proofreader. I don't think somebody wants a person of, you know, in their 20s with no experience proofreading their manuscript for them. They want somebody older with maybe the education experience. It takes years of experience By the way, I'd just like to say, to be a proofreader. But previous to that, I worked, um, in an admin capacity for professionals such as architects. And I found that in those fields, age was considered a positive benefit because I was thought of as being somebody who'd know how to speak to whoever walked through that door, what to do if a crisis arose. And so I remember thinking when I was about 52 that nobody would employ me, I was too old. I found quite the opposite. I left one job and the lady they hired to replace me was older than me. So yes, age in certain, um, aspects of life can be seen as an advantage. Well, yeah, I mean, we talk about stereotyping and discrimination, and that's not just for the over-50s. That can happen when you're straight out of university. Yes, it can. It can happen— Oh no, she's too young, you've got no experience. Well, how's she going to get any experience? That's right, and discrimination is people making assumptions and rigidly sticking to a stereotype when you clearly, the person you're dealing with, wants to break out of that stereotype. And so that's what we're sort of talking about today. How can we break down that wall a little bit? Now, let's go back to being kind, right? Yes. So, I've got here something that I find— I feel very passionate about. The media doesn't— the media doesn't represent women in an— who are living a normal life where they're healthy and, and, and good relationships, successful, so much when they're older. And without this visibility and representation of a successful, happy, content, sexy older woman without being a cougar— that's another thing, you're a cougar. No, I just happen to be over 40 and, and, and, uh, you know, you might find me attractive, so that makes me a cougar. All right, we'll talk about that another time, right? Who are aging in a healthy way, um, because they're not represented To me, there is an implicit agreement that women never age because we're not seen on the screen that way. So we're either young or we're grannies, and there's a big gap in the middle where you have the attractive older woman that's not a stereotype cougar, whatever. So now, the idea that women don't age and the older woman being less attractive is harmful to all women. And if we don't challenge that, we become complicit in that invisibility of the older woman in the media and consequently set women up to strive for something that is impossible to achieve, which is eternal youth. Wise words, mate. Yes, very wise, Margaret, because I think that that's, that's what I'm discovering, is that I, I'm 60 and touch wood I'm healthy and I love my dancing and, you know, I have a good relationship with my husband, etc. And I want to continue being seen as a vibrant woman, not somebody, as you say, who's a cougar, who's out for— or that I've lost my sexuality, I've lost the feeling that I had when I was younger. It develops, it changes. Yes. And I find a great deal of amusement in being an older woman, actually, and I have a lot of fun, if I'm honest, because I can take more liberties. I'm less frightened about what people think, and I do like challenging people's perceptions of what an older woman is or does. And sexiness, let's talk about sexiness, okay. Why is it that a woman of our age, sexualised woman of our age, is something that either people find disgusting? Because we can't have children. Yeah, it's about that. It's all about nature. It's all about the fact that we've, we're dried up, we can't give them what they want, which is the babies, so we're of absolutely no use. That's my theory. That's your theory, and that makes me feel sad and angry and ugh. So please get in touch if you want to comment on that because that is— now that we've opened up a can of worms here. Can I just say I've noticed something and Tracey Ullman did a brilliant sketch about it if you look up on YouTube, Tracey Ullman, a recent program. There's a sort of spate of women, older women being portrayed on television that are smart, attractive, definitely older doing really well professionally, so they must be punished. They must be loony. Yes. Something will happen, you know. And this sketch, they were interviewing all the— it's— they did all these sort of mock trailers of shows. Blah blah blah, a neurosurgeon at the top of her field. And then, and they all end up, oh, but I love him and now I'm going to kill myself. It's like, oh well, if you've got all that, you must be a loony. And it's almost like, we'll give you this, girls. Okay, we'll show a few women being neurosurgeons, but believe me, you're going to suffer for it. Well, that goes back to Alfred Hitchcock. It goes back to Thelma and Louise. Punishes, yeah, the blonde somehow, the beautiful blonde has to be punished in some way and usually gets killed off or something. Yeah, we'll give you this but you're not gonna like it. How fascinating. Right, so here's my question to you. How can we, how can we bring about change? Oh, that's a big one. Okay, you talked about being kind to people. I think first you have to be kind to yourself before you can be kind to other people. People. You can't look in the mirror and go, oh my God, the state of me, I've got crow's feet, this, that, the other, because then you're going to project that out onto other people. Yes. And if you feel okay about how you are, you're more likely to be nice about it. So we, but we do, we do look in that mirror and look for signifiers of age. Well, if you wear your glasses, you'll find them, but if you don't, you'll actually look quite lovely. Oh yeah, take your glasses off. Take your glasses off, because what, what I find extraordinary is how I can look in the mirror one day and then the next I've got a whole sprouted face of hair. Where's that come from? I suppose it happens because men, men, their hair grows. But I don't put my glasses on and then I'm none the wiser. My sister said her friends all look much younger if she doesn't put her glasses on. Exactly. But isn't the key a little bit that we just have to accept? Yeah. There's crow's feet or laugh lines. Love them. Yes, age is a privilege. There are a lot of people who don't get to 60. Because they die of something. They'd give anything. Yeah, I said, I just don't want to be 60. My friends went, so what do you want to be, dead? Yeah, exactly. You know, you know, I don't want to be 70. Why? How wonderful to reach 70. I remember being in my late 20s was the first time I did it, where I used to shave a couple of years off my age. Oh, did you? I went for— I was in this modeling agency and they said to me, how old are you? And I was I was 28 at the time and I went, 26? And I mean, I went home thinking, what's the point of taking 24 months off my age? Now I do tell people my age and I don't like the, ah, you must be Jack, because I don't want to discuss my age every 5 minutes to people that can't quite get to grips with the fact I'm 58. It brings fear out of you. It does, but it's interesting because in casting we were never asked our age. Age often. And I know people used to lie. I never bothered, but I know a lot of my girlfriends did, you know, underestimate how old they were. But now they actually want your birth date when you're going for a casting. You actually have to put down your date of birth, and unless you're going to lie, and if it's for a foreign commercial, you'll be found out within a nanobreathe because you've written the wrong birthday. Why do we have to— why can we not go in and— well, how 'How old do you think I am?' 'How old do I play?' 'How old do you want me to be, and I'll be that,' whatever it is. We are— I think we're categorised, you know, we're teenagers, we're young 20-somethings, we're young mums, we're older mums. And then at the upper end of that, it gets to 49 to 70, or 49 to whatever. It's like all these little windows of 18 to 24 and 24 to 30 and then 49 to 104. Yes, it's like we're just lobbed into that category. So I've written here, let's petition, demand, shout, kick ass to get more older women on our screens. And I think we have to do what a lot of my friends are doing is write, write for yourself. We need to, we need to make our own work. We need to make our own work, absolutely make our own work. Right, well, it's been honest, refreshing, and I've loved talking about this today. I thank you, Julia Gibbs and Maggie Saunders, who I hope will continue to raise awareness and confront ageism in the workplace, in literature, and on stage. And if you have any further questions or comments for Fit, Fabulous and 50+, email presenters@womensradio.stn.uk. And you can also find me and my podcast on my blog www.margarettully.international/blog. Our next topic is going to be on the fabulous subject of menopause. Menopause, menopause, menopause. Is it possible to rock the menopause? What are your thoughts and feelings? It may not be the greatest time of your life, but some of us are determined to find the benefits and the positive. So this is a shout out to all those women out there who have something to share that is not that it's not that bad, and they want to share tips on how to make it through in the best way possible to their next chapter. You've been listening to Fit, Fabulous and 50+ on Women's Radio Station. If you wanted to listen again or catch up on our previous programs, you can head to the presenters page on womensradiostation.com. Thank you for listening. Sale, sale, sale at Queen Style Furniture! Up to 50% off all our furniture styles! We've got new styles and traditional styles. Italian style and German styles. Styles for your living room or styles for your bedroom. Dining table styles or a variety of lighting styles. Queen style furniture. Uxbridge Road, Southall. We've got style! Ready for a challenge? Then take on the Pink Ribbon Walk for Breast Cancer Care. Coming to Oxfordshire and Essex this summer. We've got everything covered from snacks along the route to a massage and medal when you cross the finish line. And while we support you with every step, you'll be doing something special to support the thousands of people going through one of the toughest challenges they'll ever face— breast cancer. Visit breastcancercare.org.uk/walk. Adam and Alice London are a British luxury fashion label. Offering timeless collections for bold and beautiful women at affordable prices. Enter the giveaway lucky draw for a chance to win a fabulous silk dress made from pure silk crepe, fully lined with digital printed silk and handcrafted details, worth £475. Available in two colors, a mazarine blue and pastel. See the dress and enter our competition on the giveaway page on womensradiostation.com. Hello, my name's Jacqueline Clark. I'm a therapist. I work in the field of mental health as a counselor, hypnotherapist, and life coach. I've been doing this for 30-odd years now. Um, part of that has been that I've been a teacher of counseling in a local college. Um, near myself. I work in schools, I work with adults and young people, couples and small groups, helping people to get where they want to get in their life, managing situations like bereavement, anxiety, fears, phobias, work situations, any situation that you can possibly imagine. I get excellent feedback. My website is www.magnoliahousetherapy.com and my number is 07916 178823. Storybooks Impro, the kids' art and impro show for ages 4 to 11 years. The kids' show where the audience get a show and their own special art creation. Now taking bookings for parties and weddings tailored especially for your special occasion. All you need is your imagination. Visit storyboximpro.com or visit womensradiostation.com now. They said I was too much, too intense, too loud, too independent, too sensitive, too political, too powerful, too cold. I'm just too much of a person. I've started a project and I'm looking to photograph people who identify as a woman or non-binary who have been accused of being too much of something. My idea is that that something is really our power, and if we haven't done so already, how we reclaim that, enjoy that, and be whatever we want. We'd like to share your story of being called too much and your portrait in a social campaign and exhibition expected to launch in September 2018. To book your discussion and photograph session wherever you are in the world, go to Women's Radio Station and find our contact details there. Let me tell you about German Street Theatre. We are the smallest theatre in the West End, only 70 seats. We are a registered charity and not grant-aided, run by a small team of volunteers and trustees. Jermyn Street Theatre is a hidden gem. It combines the comfort and convenience of the West End with the intimacy of a studio. Every seat has a perfect view of the stage and even a whisper is audible. 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