Hello, this is Anna Kennedy at Women’s Radio Station, live voice of Women Worldwide talking about all things autism. You probably hear I’m a little bit bunged up, I’m full of cold so I’ll try not to sniffle. Some of the people on social media were sharing some of their remedies for colds and one of them I’d never heard of was actually slicing onions into rings, putting them at the base of your feet and putting your socks over them and going to sleep at night.

I’ve never tried that one so I’m not quite sure if I will but it was quite interesting. So today I have a guest and her name is Mandy Olack and before I speak to Mandy just to remind you about the Autism Expo which is on March the 23rd. We have six speakers so we have Sienna Castellon who I actually supported on Friday at Hillingdon Civic Centre where she was speaking at an inclusion conference for head teachers, teaching assistants and teachers.

Victoria Carmichael we have Alexandra Bester who is going to be my next speaker next week so she’s going to be talking about nutrition and the nono products. We have Mattie Street who is one of our ambassadors who is also a CEO and set up his own company. He’s got a diagnosis of Asperger’s Syndrome, Dyslexia and Dyspraxia.

We have Paul Goodwin who is talking about PDO, a hot topic at the moment and then our last speaker is Joanna Gibbs and she is one of the sensational tutors. Yesterday was Angelo’s 26th birthday. I can’t believe that my son is 26 years old and Patrick is 29.

He was over the moon with his two birthday cakes. If you follow me on social media you know that Angelo loves his cake so one to college and then we had one at home so he was a little bit hyper last night. So hello there Mandy, thank you for joining me.

Hi Anna, great to see you again, it’s been a while. It has, when did we first meet? Oh, I think it was about three years ago. Three years ago, wow time flies.

So I’m just going to read a little bit about you so our guests know who you are. So Mandy Olock has a six year old son, Swaren, so I think the last time I saw him was about three and a half, four years old, who was diagnosed with autism when he was three. Prior to Swaren’s diagnosis, Mandy worked in the city as a solicitor specialising in all aspects of employment law which we’re going to be talking about in the later part of the programme.

However, when Swaren was diagnosed, she decided to take a career break to care for him and to learn more about autism and how she could support him. During this two year period, Mandy attended various courses, as us mums do, to try and arm ourselves with information to educate herself about techniques which could help her son, including the picture exchange communication system which we’re going to be talking about in the second part of the programme. So Mandy, how was the diagnosis process for you and your son? Was it easy? I don’t think these things ever are actually.

I think when Swaren was two, he was developing normally and then at the age of two he stopped talking and then straight away what did I do? I Googled speech regression and it came up with autism and I didn’t want to know, slammed the computer shut within denial and then I think it took me, it was a process, it took me a while before I started to see the other signs which I’d convinced myself he didn’t have and then I think I knew instinctively before I even got that diagnosis. We were on the waiting list for the NHS for quite some time. Because I know some parents wait on average five years, so how long did you wait? Well, in the end I actually went private, partly because I was going through an appeal process for the EHCP and I wanted to have that information.

But I think we would have probably ended up about 18 months I think by that point. But even then getting the diagnosis was still like a kick in the stomach. It is, it’s just, had you heard of autism before? Well, I’d heard of it but that’s all I knew about autism.

I didn’t know about it and I had the stereotypical sort of rain man images in my head and I have to admit I knew very little about it and it’s only really through my son that I’ve become educated about autism. Okay, what about your family? How did they react? As Warren’s father I think it was a process for him as well, so I can’t really sort of speak for him. But my own parents were actually very good about it.

They hadn’t heard of autism at all. But they have really embraced it and my mum in particular is brilliant with my son as well. And she’s around a lot when we go to the appointments and have therapy.

So yeah, so they’ve been actually really supportive. That’s the thing, isn’t it? Once our children are diagnosed there’s lots of appointments. Yes.

So off to speech and language if you’re lucky, if you can get some sessions. So did you manage to get any sessions for your son? Through his EHCP I did. We’re very fortunate.

But I do supplement what’s going on at school with what’s going on at home. And I have the support of a special needs teacher who comes to our house every week. And we work on a variety of things.

Initially it was to help me with toilet training. Then it might be to maybe get Warren to sit down and have a meal with us. But we worked a lot on his communication and she actually helped me embed PECS at home as well.

So for the viewers, not the viewers or even the listeners, you’ve mentioned EHCP. There’s a lot of acronyms in the world of EHCP. Yes, sorry.

So could you explain a little bit about the EHCP and what the process and how was it for you? So EHCP stands for Education Healthcare Plan. These replaced the old statements of special educational needs. So my son has only ever been on that process because of his age.

So I didn’t have to go through that transition. And essentially it is a document which records a child’s special educational needs and the provision that is required in place to meet those needs. There are also other bits of information in it.

And really you apply for that when your child is entering education. So it’s designed to really put in place the infrastructure that your child will need when they go into school. So what sort of assessments did he have to finalize the EHCP? So looking at his various impairments, so my son was non-verbal when I first applied for EHCP.

So a speech and language therapist assessed him. An education psychologist also assessed him to see how children with autism learn in a different way. And Swaren’s a very visual learner.

So they will suggest strategies around how to maybe adapt the classroom to meet his needs. Make it more productive. He was also seen later on by an occupational therapist as well.

So how long did this process take? So somebody who’s thinking right, I think my son might be on the autism spectrum. So they’ve got a diagnosis now finally from whichever avenue they’ve gone down. How long would this process take, would you say? Well, for me, I applied in the December and by June it was finalised.

So I think you have to allow a good six months. So before your child is starting school, if you’re right at the beginning of your journey, you need to start thinking about it well in advance. OK, so you get this document and then obviously you need to read through it.

And as I know, as my husband Sean calls them woolly word bingo because they word these documents in such a way that sometimes they don’t actually mean anything. So obviously you’re looking through the draft. So can you give some tips that parents might be looking up for what they need to look for? So if you see words like would benefit, you know, Johnny would benefit from some speech and language therapy.

That’s really vague. It’s not a firm recommendation. So you want to really have any recommendations, inspection F, which is the sort of the provision section, you want to make sure they’re really specific, they’re quantified.

In the needs section, which is section B of the plan, you want to really sort of pin down what your child’s needs are. So rather than saying my child has or Johnny has a speech and language delay, it actually helps if you could say he has expressive language delay, can say no more than 10 words. So you have to be quite specific.

Yeah, that’s right. And then it’s more useful for everyone who’s working with the child. OK, so you’ve got this document, EHCP.

So is it the magic document that then everything falls into your lap? I wish I could say it was. I think that’s the first part of the battle. And in retrospect, it’s the easy part.

I think once you go through that process and you’ve got the document, the real challenge is really keeping on top of it. Not just putting that document in a drawer, which you then look at a year later when it’s reviewed. You really got to sort of keep on top of it, know what’s in the plan, have a good communication system with the school so that you can make sure that whatever’s happening at school is carried through at home.

So if they’re working on phonics, for example, which my son is at the moment, we can try and carry on some of that where appropriate at home. So you really need to just make sure that what’s in the plan has been delivered. Yeah, and I would say when I went through the statementing process with both Patrick and Angela, we started building up a file and everything was in chronological day order because it’s easier when you’re searching for things if you’ve got problems, you know, I think they grow up type of thing.

So I would recommend you either keep a file of documents or a file on your computer, however you feel is going to be the best way really. Definitely. Yeah, you must need to.

So tell me a little bit about swearing. You know, let’s not talk about the educational need. How is swearing at home? Now, he’s brilliant.

I mean, it’s such a different child from the one that you met almost three years ago. He’s recently acquired his voice. Oh, that’s brilliant.

Which is fantastic. And so he’s now using that quite a lot. How was that for you when you first started doing it? Because I remember when Angela started seeing a couple of sentences and I felt like my heart was jumping up my chest.

Yeah, no, it definitely does feel that way. But I suppose it’s a gradual process really. So he’s much calmer now that he can communicate.

So he certainly makes his needs known. He’s quite a lively little boy, has lots of interest, and has a girlfriend called Gia. So, you know, he’s got to get a hat.

Maybe another 20 years. So how do they play together, or are they in parallel? Gia’s a year older than him, and she’s in a mainstream school. My son’s in a special school.

Her communication is a bit more advanced, but they love doing things that any child likes doing. So they go trampolining together. They go to the fun fair.

They like heating up restaurants as well. That’s a big favourite of theirs. So is he quite picking with his food? Oh, yes.

It’ll be sausage and chips, which is his favourite, and ice cream for dessert. Okay, all right then. So that’s exciting.

So we’re going to be talking a little bit later on. So we’re on Women’s Radio Station Live, Voice of Women Worldwide. And if you’d like to contact the charity website, it’s www.annaKennedyonline.com. If you’d like to ask Mandy any questions, you can contact us through the charity website and we can pass on the messages onto Mandy.

Again, just to remind you about the ACO Expo, it’s March the 23rd, and all the information is on the charity website. So we are selling the tickets at £10. So once you go in there, everything else is free.

So there’s lots of networking, lots of stands. So again, we’re at Women’s Radio Station, Voice of Women Worldwide, and it’s live. And thank you very much.

Welcome to Women’s Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. This is Women’s Radio Station. You’re listening to Agroprize with Kitchen Sink spirituality.

It’s Anna Kennedy talking all things autism. And my guest today is Karen Nye. Welcome to Future Classical Women Awards with me, Stefania Passamante, on Women’s Radio Station.

Women’s Radio Station, we want to hear from you. I listen to Women’s Radio Station. Women, the possibilities are endless.

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We would love you to join our mailing list or become a sponsor or just buy a ticket to one of our shows. The website is www.germondstreettheatre.co.uk. Hi, this is Anna Kennedy, Women’s Radio Station, Voice of Women Worldwide. My guest today is Mandy Olak, but before we go over to Mandy, last week I spoke about occupational therapists because a lot of parents, where their children are being diagnosed, they hear about all these different professionals and they think, what’s a speech and language therapist? What’s an occupational therapist? So this week I’m going to just read a little bit about educational psychologists.

So an educational psychology is concerned with children and young people in educational and early settings. Educational psychologists support children and young people facing challenges, such as learning difficulties, social and emotional problems, issues around disability as well as more complex developmental disorders. They work in a variety of ways, including observations, interviews and assessments, and offer consultation, advice and support to teachers, parents, the wider community, as well as the young people concerned.

They research innovative ways of helping vulnerable young people and often train teachers, learning support assistants, as well as other working with children. So what kind of qualifications or training would they need? So many of the educational psychologists will have initially trained as a teacher and so come to the role with a comprehensive understanding of educational settings. They will then complete a conversation course to achieve a BPS accreditation.

Others will have completed an undergraduate degree in psychology in order to qualify as an educational psychologist. They will complete a doctorate of masters in educational psychology. So next week we’ll be talking about speech and language therapists.

So back over to Mandy. Thank you, Mandy. So you’ve been working with your son on PEX.

So what is PEX and can you talk to me? Because I know there’s various different stages. So if you can just explain as best you can. Well, I’ll try.

And I hope that no PEX consultants are listening as I get it wrong. I’ll show you, be fine. So PEX is, stands for picture exchange communication system.

Okay. It was devised by Andy Bondi and Laurie Frost who brought it across to the UK about 20 years ago. Okay.

And it’s a prescribed method. So it’s a system that has six phases to it. Six official phases.

My son’s beyond those phases now. Okay. But you’ve got to basically work your way through each phase.

Right. And collect data. And before you can move on to the next phase, you have to have achieved 80% accuracy in one phase.

So it’s quite prescriptive. So they’ve got their own peers then? Absolutely. Okay.

So the first phase is very simple. It will involve just exchanging over a symbol and getting whatever it is you’ve asked for. So what kind of symbols are we talking about? So with my son, it was biscuits, ice cream and crisps.

So incentives really. In PEX world, it’s called reinforcers. Some people might call it motivators.

Right. But it’s anything that the child is really motivated to want to ask you for. So it’s got to be, as you said, an incentive.

So has it got to be only three? No. It can be whatever. How many? Some people struggle just to come up with one or two.

Food was Swann’s big thing. Right. So I’d break a biscuit into 100 pieces just to get him to exchange more.

So that’s a handy tip that I think my parents might find quite useful. A smarty’s probably a quite good one. You know, where you can encourage lots of exchanges.

So that’s the first phase. And then the second phase, you’ve got to work on really getting them to be persistent and to travel with their communication books. So it’s about developing that insistence that, yes, I need to work here.

If I want something, I’ve got to really persist with it. So that’s phase two. So you said a book.

What does the book look like? So it’s a folder which has got lots of velcro strips on it. And the symbols are normally velcroed and put into that book. And it’s got a strap so that you can carry it around with you because that book represents the voice.

I do know about this, but I’m just trying to draw it out for me from listeners that might not have heard of it because obviously with Hillingdom out of school, I remember when we first started, I was sick of cutting out the little symbols and the velcro. Yes, I’ve spent many nights velcroing. And then phase three looks at discrimination skills.

So once you’ve sort of got past that, I know that I need to give a symbol in order to get what I want. It’s then distinguishing between things that you like and you don’t like. So testing whether your child is understood.

Yes, if I give that symbol, I’m asking for that particular thing and then working if they like two things to make sure that they understand. So when you were working with Swaram, what was his initial reaction? Was it like looking at you as if to say, what are you doing? Do you know what? Actually, he was really positive about it. He quite liked structure and he thrives on that.

So he actually quite liked it because he realised that he could get more biscuits. He actually used it because if he asked for it, he used the pecs to initiate communication. I would honour it.

So how long did it take him, would you say, for the first stage starting off? No more than an hour. Oh wow, that was quite quick. Yeah, he was really quick.

But obviously each child is different. So some children might be an hour, some children might be a day, some children might be a week. Exactly.

Exactly. If you just go at the pace of the child. But phase two was a bit longer.

That took quite a long time. Remind me phase two? Phase two is distance and persistence. It’s about getting the child to, if they want a biscuit, if their pecs book is in the other room, to travel to the other room to get it.

So does this work just one to one, you and your son, or could you do it with two people? Well, in the first phase you need two people. But afterwards it can just be the parent and the child or anyone else. Okay, so what would the other person be doing then? So you’ve just described yourself and your son.

The idea is that you can use that system to communicate with anyone else, not just me. Okay, got you. And that’s really what you want to encourage.

So I take it out into the community. So if we’re going out buying toast, I will let Swaran make a sentence saying, I want toast please, and hand it over to the person serving tea and coffee. Okay, and have they been okay with that? They love it.

They’ve actually been really, I’ve got a very positive response. Good. People are really glad they want to know more.

Yeah, well that’s good. So we’re on phase two. So what’s the next one? Phase three is discrimination.

Okay. And that’s really, as I said, it’s about differentiating if you like two things, do you really know what you’re actually requesting? Yeah, because choice I remember with my voice was quite difficult. Yeah.

Because if I used to say to Patrick, would you like chips? Would you like beans? Would you like fish? The more choice you gave him, the more difficult he would find it. It would work better if it was just two items at that time when he was younger, obviously now. And I remember at one point he used to say to me, you know, obviously you’re learning.

You’re just learning all the time. So he used to say to me, well, what do you think I might like? And it’s like, Patrick, you’ve got to choose. But you’re learning with your son.

As I say, if you’re 26 and 29, he’ll learn every day. You don’t know everything. Okay, so carry on.

So then the next stage is, and that gets really exciting, is when you start using the strip on the book. So at the end of the folder, there is a little strip, which is called the sentence strip. And that’s where you start to build sentences.

So we now move to two symbols. So it starts with the I want. The I want you’d initially place on the strip.

And then you’d get the student or child to then pick what they wanted. So if it was, for example, Swaren likes biscuits. The I want biscuit.

And to get them to then hand over the strip to whoever it is they want to get the item from. So would there be a bit of frustration when he first can’t get it? He’s actually quite good. There are some children who will get frustrated if they can’t get it.

But just using strategies like saying waiting or giving them a little bit, that sometimes does the trick as well. Sometimes it’s processing information, you’ve just got to give them a little bit longer. Exactly.

Okay, so what’s the next data? So then you move on to looking at attributes. So developing the length of those sentences. So we then moved on to, rather than saying I want biscuits, it might be I want one biscuit.

I mean, we didn’t thankfully get one pie. But it could be shapes of biscuits. You know, I want square biscuits.

And with Swaren, he used to like walkers, cheese and onion crisps. So I want blue because they’re blue packet. I want blue crisps.

And he still says whatever colour crisps he likes. My boys like quite strong flavoured crisps. Like pickled onions, salt and vinegar with meats.

It’s just like, oh, that’s a bit too strong for me. But they seem to like those strong tastes. Yeah, definitely.

This orange cheese and onion. Okay, right then. And does it have to be a specific brand? He’s actually okay.

He’s not too bad, but he does know what he likes. Yeah, I remember when Magela was younger, it had to be Crawford’s Custard Creams. No other Custard Creams would do.

It would have to be Crawford’s. But, you know, I think we’re all done. You try different things, but we get there.

Okay, and the next thing. And so then the final stage is introducing more. So so far, they’ve learnt all about requesting things they want.

You want to then start moving their communication so that they are commenting on things. Okay. Things that they’re interested in.

I divided them up to be quite hard. That can be. When I started introducing with Swaren, he was really into In the Night Garden.

So what I would do, so we’d use the, so instead of I want on the sentence strip, it was I see. Okay. So I’d put my office computer on.

Yeah. Bring up YouTube. Okay.

Put an episode of In the Night Garden on. And then I’d just pause it and I’d say, who do you see? Yeah. So then he would say, I see Iggle Piggle.

I see Maca Packer. And so that was actually quite motivating. So you’ve got to really pick an activity or play to things that you know they’re interested in.

And that’s when you get the most communication and then you can extend it from there. I’d imagine that to be quite exciting for you. Because obviously you’re willing him to.

Absolutely. I know that I crave to hear Angelo. Sometimes he’ll come out with things.

And I’ll put them on social media, where all of a sudden he’ll just say something and you just think, where did that come from? And like the most significant one for me just recently was when I was fastening his shirt. When he just tapped me on the head and he went, keep up the good work. I thought, excuse me.

Where did that come from? And it’s just like, and they said at the right time, but it’s just like little pockets that you get and you just crave for more of it. Absolutely. And that’s what I love about Pex.

I mean, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say it really has revolutionised our home life. It’s given him a voice. And it’s tangible.

So you can see the progress. And I think for parents, you can really take control of it. So how do you take that to school? Right.

Well, with my son, it was documented as a modality in his education healthcare plan. Okay. So that’s something that parents need to be aware of.

So if there’s something that works really well for your son, get it in the EHCP plan. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So that was already in there. So it was a system that he is using at school anyway. But what I was doing was I was really, because communication doesn’t just stop at school when the bell rings.

No, no, no. They need to communicate at home. Yeah.

I had gone on a Pex course, and I really recommend that parents, if they can, try and go on a workshop and actually learn it from the people that devised it. And that’s the best way, because you then understand the system. Okay.

So have you got the website details if someone’s interested? I can certainly provide them, yes. Okay. So I suppose if somebody typed in Google, they’d put Pex.

And they should get to Pyramid Education Consultants. Okay. And they’ve got details of their workshops.

They’re up and down the country throughout the year. Okay. And how long is a workshop? Two days is level one.

Okay. And I have to admit, I felt a little bit, or should I be on here? It’s full of professionals. But absolutely, you should be there, because you’re the one really driving the communication.

So after the two days, is there anything else? Yeah, it can be level two, which you can do afterwards. But that’s really more aimed at the teaching staff to come up with creative ideas. But there are other courses you can do.

But level one, definitely. I really recommend that. Is it expensive? I can’t remember the price off the top of my hand, but there is a special way for parents.

Okay. And if parents are struggling, I believe there is a fund that they could try and access. Well, that’s great.

So what we’ll do is we’ll actually put some information on the charity website after the show. We’re going to write an article, a little bit about what’s happened today. So Mandy will share the information.

So if you’re interested in PECS, and you’d like to try it with your son or your daughter, please look at the charity website just to remind you www.annakennedyonline.com. If you’d like to ring us for a chat, 018 95 5 4 0 1 8 7. I’m at Women’s Radio Station, voice of Women World Wide, talking all things autism. Women’s Radio Station is a fresh new broadcasting platform driven by love and passion. Connecting women around the world in a global network is all about diversity.

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And my guest today is Mandy Olak and before we go back to Mandy, just to let you know that we’ll be announcing very soon the Autism’s Got Talent performers. Twenty people are going to be showcasing their talent at the Mermaid Theatre on May the 4th. We’ll be selling tickets at the beginning of February.

So twenty performers from all over the UK and this time we had performers from Hungary, from Canada, from America, from Mexico, from all over the world. And you know what? It’s going to be so hard to choose the twenty because they just get better and better if that’s possible. A lot of people are now starting to plan for holidays and I haven’t had a family holiday for about fifteen years.

I’ve written a book called Not Stupid and I was actually just flicking through it. Actually it wasn’t me, it was Patrick because now and again he likes to flick through the book and he likes to read things that have happened for when he was younger, just to remind himself. So there’s a little bit about a holiday that we had and I just wanted to read it to you.

I wrote the book in 2009. It was bestseller on Amazon and if you’d like to read it, I’m hoping to write another one. I don’t know when, I’m just so busy at the moment but I just wanted to share with you about holidays.

So in the summer of 2003 when he was ten years old Angelo performed another disappearing act when we took a caravan holiday near Great Yarmouth in Norfolk. Undoubtedly the worst holiday we’ve ever had. As always Sean didn’t want to come along in the first place and moaned nearly all the way there and his mood didn’t improve when the school’s Sunshine Variety Coach which we had borrowed broke down on the way.

That’s it he said, we’re going back. But desperate for a much needed break I wouldn’t hear of it. I’ve learnt better now that you know there’s no such thing as a much needed break when we’re on a family holiday.

Once the coach was fixed we continued on our way but within three days of our scheduled week’s holiday Angelo went missing again. This time he managed to get out of the caravan and noticed it didn’t take a second and off he went. As soon as we realised he had gone Sean whizzed off like a madman in the Sunshine Coach told up for Angelo while Coral, my mother-in-law and I wandered around the site hoping to find him.

I was worried sick because the site was situated near to a steep cliff which I didn’t know at the time when I booked the holiday. My heart felt as if it was coming out of my chest and I was hardly calmed when I heard a driver telling another that some bleeping nutter driving a Sunshine Coach had just cut him up. It transpired that Angelo had decided to walk into someone else’s caravan but as luck would have it the caravan was occupied by a lady who just happened to be a special needs teacher who taught children with autism.

Angelo it seems just wandered in, sat down in front of the television and declared I want Bambi. The lady contacted the site’s information desk and then sat with Angelo until we arrived to collect him two or three hours after he had disappeared. That’s it declared Sean, pack the cases, we’re going home and that was the end of the holiday.

So what about you Mandy, how was holidays with you and is Swann a bit of a wanderer? Holidays, what’s that? It’s been about four and a half years since I had a holiday and so that was prior to diagnosis. I haven’t actually had a holiday experience with Swann since. And yes he is a wanderer and I think I’ve read that part of your book before and it actually scares the living daylights out of me and that’s the thing, you proof you’re home.

So you know, as soon as Swann comes in the bolt on the door goes on, the doors are locked because he likes opening doors and wandering. Climbing down open doors, Angelo. Absolutely, so that would make me quite nervous about booking a holiday.

I think I’d need tons of research but that would probably be the next thing to prepare for. Yeah, there are some autism friendly places now so if you type in on Google or even look at a lot of websites out there if you type in autism friendly holidays there are a lot of places. We actually went to a lovely place at the Isle of Wight.

It was just myself, Patrick and Angelo and my sister that came to support me and that was at the Isle of Wight and it was called Heartlands and it’s called Spectrum Breaks. I have seen that, yes. Yeah, do you know what, it’s a lovely place and the chap who owns it, his son has autism and they actually live upstairs but they’ve set up a couple of flats there and they’ve done a really good job.

It’s got a sensory room, it’s got a swimming pool. You know, I highly recommend you go there so it’s a great place. So let’s talk about your career.

So in your practice areas, tell me a little bit about obviously you’re a solicitor and you’re working in the SCN. I don’t know why the whole family seem to work in the field. We can’t seem to let go but I think what we’re trying to do is make a difference because we don’t want parents to go through the same stuff that we went through.

So tell me a little bit about what you do in your job. Okay, so probably just a little bit of history. So as you said at the beginning, I’m an employment lawyer but I have been since I qualified and that’s still very much what I do.

But when Swann was diagnosed, it was obviously a lot for me to take on board and just to get my head around what does this mean in terms of parenting. So I took a bit of a career break and that’s when I became interested in special educational needs law and then of course the difficulty is, well, I need flexibility in my work life so that’s when I ended up setting up on my own. How do you feel about setting up on your own with it? I think it’s a big step but when you know that you need to actually do something and you want to do something constructive and I really wanted to do something in a special educational needs space as well as the employment space.

It just seemed the logical thing to do and so I didn’t really look at it as a huge risk. Let’s give it a go. So that’s essentially what I do know.

They’re the two practice areas and in terms of the SEN practice, we help parents who are going through the appeal system who want to challenge the contents of their children’s education health care plan and we’ll help them through that process. So tell me about an appeal. How does that impact on the family and how long does it take and what does it consist of? An appeal generally from start to finish, you’re looking at about three and a half month period.

It takes such a bloody long time, doesn’t it? No, and we actually think that’s quite fast for the legal system. How we tend to approach it is to, well because I’ve been there, I know exactly how a parent feels so hopefully they do feel that they are, they’ve got someone there who understands the process because it can be very stressful because it’s your child so you are going to get very emotional in this process and it’s hard when you read about the difficulties that your child has. Because you’ve experienced them but when you see it written down it sort of hits home more, don’t you think? Exactly, so I try and break it up into four stages, that’s how we sort of look at it.

So the first stage is actually getting your appeal in. So what sort of things do parents appeal about? So they can appeal section B, which is the identifying the needs, the special educational needs. Can you give me an example? So for example if your child has got speech and language delay, if the needs are not properly identified, and to the degree of the specificity that I talked about earlier, that would be one example where you would want to make sure that those needs are properly broken down.

For example my son Swaren, he has sensory processing, but just saying he has sensory processing dysfunction doesn’t really tell you much, so what areas, is it auditory, is it visual, that sort of thing. So that’s section B, the needs. So that’s how detailed it’s got to be.

And then section F, which is the provision, is also appealable. So provision, what does that mean? So having identified the need, you then need to put something in place to help overcome that need or to minimise that need. So for example with my son, using him as an example, he has speech and language delay, so PEX is a provision.

Okay, so you can actually put that into your EHCP. And once it’s in there, because I know with the statement, if it was in there, it was almost like a legal document. With the EHCP, it’s not a legal document, is it? It is.

Oh it is now. Okay, sorry, right. So you know, it’s in there, the local authority have got to deliver on it.

If it’s in there, they’ve got to provide it. So in section I, which is the school essentially, that’s also appealable. And then there is a slight tweak that section E could also be appealable, but that’s a technical point I won’t bother listeners with.

So they’re the appealable points. And that really BNF is really what we see a lot of, where parents really want to make sure that the provision is in place for their children. Is that an expensive process, would you say? It certainly can be, because it’s not just the legal phase, I mean parents can do it themselves, but it’s also the instructing the experts.

It’s an evidence-based process. Because experts’ reports are quite expensive, aren’t they? So could you give us like a ballpark figure of like, say for example, speech and language therapy report? Oh, I mean it would depend where you are in the country. Starting from? It could be anything from, I don’t know, a thousand pounds to two thousand pounds.

So then you need an OT, so similar type of cost. Yeah. Educational psychologists, there’s a lot more.

There can be, yes. You’re looking at probably say five thousand pounds, would you feel like the reports only? Probably, something like that. Depending on the needs.

So it really does vary, so it’s not a cheap process. So you go to the tribunal and you’re there, so who are you there with? So who’s in the room? So in the room, so the people hearing the case, it’s not just a judge sitting alone, it’ll be a judge with a fellow wing member. So the idea is you’ve got a balance, a panel hearing your case, so there’s usually two people.

Parents are in the room, the experts that you’ve instructed are in the room, your lawyers, if you’ve got lawyers, are in the room, the local authority, they will be represented there as well. So it’s quite informal compared to other courts. And then once you’ve been through the process, how long do you have to wait for the results? Well, that can depend.

It’s usually within weeks, but it can be, depending on the availability of the judge, it could be a month. But you need to factor in a couple of weeks. And if you don’t get the answer you want, what can you do? You’ve got a couple of options, either accept it, which is one option, or you can appeal it.

But there are limited grounds on which you can appeal. Most parents, I think, take the view that appeal is quite an expensive process, it’s not something that’s undertaken lightly. Okay, all right then.

So it can be quite a traumatic experience really, and I would say if you can take someone with you, because when you’re talking about your own child, I don’t think you’re always as objective or you get too emotionally involved, you need to have someone with you to support you. Again, if you want to chat to somebody about it or you’d like a little bit more information, if you contact Anna Kennedy Online, we can point you in the right direction. So it’s www.annakennedyonline.com or you can contact the office 01895-540-187 and it’s Anna Kennedy, Women’s Radio Station, voice of women worldwide, talking all things autism.

Thank you. Welcome to Women’s Radio Station, the voice of women worldwide. This is Women’s Radio Station, you’re listening to AgroPrize with Kitchen Sink spirituality.

It’s Anna Kennedy talking all things autism, and my guest today is Karen Knight. Welcome to future classical women awards with me, Stefania Passamante on Women’s Radio Station. Women’s Radio Station, we want to hear from you.

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Hello, this is Anna Kennedy at Women’s Radio Station, Voice of Women Worldwide, talking all things autism and we’re live today. So this is the last section of the programme and we’re going to be talking to Mandy about how our children grow to be adults. There’s a lot of support, well, quite a bit of support for children but there seems to be less for adults.

So Mandy, tell me a little bit about in relation to the workplace. Tell us first, what are reasonable adjustments and why are they so important for our adults? Okay, so under the Equality Act in 2010, if you have a disability and autism doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a disability under the Equality Act, there’s a very specific definition. So what’s the definition? So the definition, I knew you were going to ask that.

So the definition is a technical one, it’s a legal one, so it means if there’s a physical or mental impairment which has a long-term adverse impact on a person’s ability to carry out day-to-day activities, a long-term means 12 months or more and day-to-day activities would be the normal things like going to the shops, washing up, driving, that sort of thing. Okay, so Patrick’s just started working at Pinewood so they’ve had to make some reasonable adjustments for him. He actually rang me today because he’s a little bit anxious so I gave him a little bit of advice about why don’t you make a few notes, then you can refer back to them, then you’ll have to keep asking his work colleagues.

So talk to me because I get a lot of questions about what are reasonable adjustments, what can employers do or what can our adults ask for? Okay, so assuming you’ve got past that, you’re disabled for the purposes of that, then the obligation to make reasonable adjustments kicks in. So employers need to essentially make workplace adaptations. Now that could be to the environment, it could be to working hours or the way in which a person works.

It’s about as limitless as you can imagine. So how far can you get because you’re saying working hours, so what if someone says they only want to work one hour a day? How do you get around that one? Well, I mean, I’m joking now. Well, for example, it’s not about what they can do.

So for example, if somebody does acquire a disability and they can no longer work in the evenings because by that time they’re very tired and the effects of their disability kicking, it might be we’ll make some adjustments because we know that they’re better in the morning so they might work part-time, or their responsibilities might be shared in a different way, their job role. Okay, so we’re talking about autism today. So can you talk about reasonable adjustments without giving out any private information where people have come to you and just said, these are my difficulties.

What sort of difficulties do adults come with you to? I think a lot of things that I tend to see in my practice is adults with autism come to me and one of the difficulties they have in the workplace is communication, the unsaid things, the social interaction side of things, not picking up on little jokes, feeling a little bit excluded in that sort of way. Banta was quite difficult for my son when he was working in the garage. He didn’t quite get what was going on and I think he thought that they were taking the mickey out of him and I just said, no, it’s just Banta Patrick.

Just had to keep reassuring him because he’s getting anxious about it. Yeah, so we do see things like that. There can also be, I had one client who found a very noisy environment quite distracting and she worked in an open plan office.

I can imagine that to be quite difficult. That was quite difficult. So a couple of reasonable adjustments could be things like maybe headphones or where she needs to do something where she particularly needs to concentrate, perhaps an office.

So just making those are examples of reasonable adjustments. Other times I just may be needing breaks. Another person came to me who was a lawyer who had autism and part of the role involved developing business so that meant going to networking events, mingling with clients and they found that very difficult.

So one of the adjustments that was put in place was to give that person a buddy so that they had someone who they knew, they trusted, they worked with, who almost modelled to them how to conduct those sort of conversations or was there if there was any awkward silences. So that’s another example on the phone. What about saying somebody wants to apply for a job? What sort of reasonable adjustments can be made for the interview process? So for example, there was actually a case a couple of years ago about someone who did have autism who was applying for a job and was made to sit a test which involved multiple choice and he found that quite difficult.

That said I can answer the questions if I can actually explain the answers. So it’s making adjustments in that way and I think an employer really has to ask themselves do these tests, are they necessary to enable me to figure out if this is the right person for the job? What if a person is working in a position and then they’re finding it difficult and then they go and get a diagnosis and then they find out that they have autism spectrum condition? What happens then? Well, there is no legal obligation on an individual to disclose their disability. My view is that, and obviously it depends on the circumstances, but if you don’t disclose it to your employer they will not know that you have these difficulties and they won’t be able to then make the adjustments.

So do they have to make the adjustments or is it that they might say oh well I don’t make you suit for this job, I’m going to give you another job in another part of the building or whatever. How far can they go to the employer? Well employers have to obviously be very careful about what they do. I think when that situation arises the best thing to do is actually be open and upfront about what your condition is and usually what prompts it is that there is some inkling the individual has or some difficulty they’re having.

Now you only make reasonable adjustments if they’re actually going to make a difference. You don’t just make reasonable adjustments for the sake of it. I think a very easy sort of process is to really look at what the job involves, break down all those aspects of the job and match them against what the individual can do and what areas they’re having difficulty in.

And where they’re having difficulty you need to think about what can you put in place to overcome that. So in the example I gave of someone who had the core skills to be able to do this job in an office environment but found it very difficult to concentrate and to be sitting with her colleagues. So needed that break time away to be able to focus.

So that was an example of, well actually if I’m doing this task I really need to be on my own to do it. So I need an office or a space that I can work with. I haven’t got distraction.

So what about monitoring progress on how they’re getting on with the reasonable adjustments because they might need to be tweaked yet again. Absolutely. And that’s a really important point you just picked up because it’s a bit like when we’re reviewing the education, healthcare plans and reviewing how the provision’s going there.

You also need to do the same thing in the work context as well. And some things need to change over time and it’s about having, I think it’s a really good idea to sort of set those, there’s regular appraisals that a lot of firms operate. But you could have something built in maybe to review it quarterly to see how things are going.

I mean a good employer will hopefully have those policies and procedures in place to monitor. Yeah. So have you seen some companies where they are offering a good service and they are really looking after our adults? I have actually.

That’s heartwarming. And you know, I think I’m fortunate that I’ve come across a lot of employers who want to do the right thing, don’t necessarily always know how to do it, but they want to learn. And I think autism is something now we’re going to see a lot more in the workplace.

I mean, I read somewhere that the one in 28 boys are being diagnosed with autism. You know, these are the employees of tomorrow. So employers have got to get to grips with it.

They’ve got to understand what it is. And obviously no two people are the same, but to have an understanding of what autism is, because I still get asked the question, what is autism? Yeah. So if you’re an employee, would you advise training? Absolutely.

And there’s the minimum. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Because I have spoken to some employees where they say, oh, we’ve got an A4 sheet of paper. We’ve handed it out to everybody.

This is what it is. But it’s more than that. And we worked with Great Western Railway last year because they’d had some incidents where some of their passengers or some of their employees were having difficulties.

And what they said was that came out of the awareness raising program was that some parents hadn’t shared as well that they had children on the spectrum because they were worried about how their colleagues would say what they would say about it. But they said after they had shared it, some of the colleagues that they were working with, that they didn’t even realize themselves that they also had a nephew or a son or whatever. And they said it almost felt like a big weight had been lifted off their shoulder.

So not only is that obviously awareness raising has been raised, but they can actually talk about it. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. I just don’t get why people are ashamed, you know, that they shouldn’t be sharing it.

So for me, it’s just like there’s nothing to be ashamed of. The other thing is that some adults have spoken to are worried about sharing it because they’re worried about being discriminated against. This is like a really hot topic.

So if we have some people that are listening in that might be interested in asking you about reasonable adjustments, would you be happy to? And maybe you can share something in the article where you can point them in the right direction. Yeah, that would be great. So we’re at women’s radio station, Women’s Worldwide.

So just very quickly, what do you do to relax? Because it’s obviously very stressful, it can be, and very tiring. Well, I’ve discovered EFT in Jinjitsu. Okay.

And I meditate. So that’s my form of relaxation. So how often do you do that then? Once a week.

I see a practitioner at Ambutri Holistics who is brilliant. And she’s local to me. And it is just my time, really.

My time out of the day. I do it my working day. And it’s just a question of just anything that’s happened in the week, getting off my chest.

Do you feel better? Much better. Yeah, I think you’ve got to find whatever. It doesn’t matter what it is.

Even if it’s just walking around the block, whatever it is, just something for you so that it can help you get on with your day, get on with your week, get on with your year. So yeah, as people know, I like to do Zumba. I can’t always go on a Thursday, but I try to go as often as I can.

And I just feel like I’ve just had this release of energy. So we’re finishing off. And thank you, Mandy, for coming today.

Thank you. Lots of useful information there. And if you’d like to contact us and you want to ask more questions, it’s www.annakennedyonline.com. And the telephone number to ring in is 01895-540-187.

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