All Things Autism – Lolo Stubbs 220523.mp3
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Speaker 2
00:00 – 00:08
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism. And it’s a beautiful sunny day today. So we’ve been busy as always.

Speaker 2
00:08 – 00:21
And Autism’s Got Talent, the roadshow was amazing in Stockton. It was just, oh, it’s just the best thing ever. So, yeah, we’ve still got the main show. So don’t forget if you want to send in your entries.

Speaker 2
00:21 – 00:48
We’ve still got a few weeks left that If you want to nominate somebody or nominate yourself, if you feel that you’d like to perform at the main London stage at the Mermaid Theatre, which will be happening in October, please send in your entries. So if you’re a singer, whether you’re a dancer, you’re a musician, a magician, whether you’re a poet, you’re an actor and you want to do a piece from a play, We want to see it. Remember, it’s not a competition. It’s a showcase of talent.

Speaker 2
00:48 – 01:04
We’ve already had entries coming in from all over the world and across the UK. So as young as five. And I think the probably had about 66 years old is the one that’s been the oldest that’s actually performed on stage. So, yes, please, please send in your entries.

Speaker 2
01:04 – 01:25
We want to see them. Don’t forget as well, we’ve got the Autism Hero Awards that will be happening in November. So the closing date will be mid June. So if you would like to send in your entries, somebody that you feel that goes the extra mile, All the information is on the charity website, www.annakennedyonline.com.

Speaker 2
01:25 – 01:46
We’ve also got Paul, who is our autism consultant. If you feel you might like to chat to somebody, whether it’s to talk about behaviour, whether it’s to talk about sensory issues, he can actually book an appointment on the charity website for 45 minutes, either on a Thursday or a Friday, to talk to Paul via Zoom, and he can give you some advice. He’s absolutely amazing.

Speaker 2
01:46 – 02:11
He’s been with the charity for quite a few years yet. And he’s also got lots of lots of info that he can share or tips or advice. So, yes, please look at the charity website and you’ll be able to book a 45 minute free Zoom session. I just wanted to share something that one of our performers, Charlie, who’s also on the main show last year, who is from the North East region.

Speaker 2
02:11 – 02:26
So it says Charlie Boy performed at Autumn’s Got Talent at the Roadshow in Stockton. Obviously, he couldn’t wait to perform. and his mom and his family were very, very proud of him. But he’s had a tough six months, but his passion and determination to sing is such an inspiration.

Speaker 2
02:26 – 02:36
it really does help him through bad days. We cannot thank the charity enough for giving him this opportunity. We’re truly blessed to have met you all and you are such a wonderful team. Thank you.

Speaker 2
02:37 – 03:03
The work that you do with your charity is truly amazing and Autumn’s Got Talent is so much more than just a show. Our boy has barely left the house in the last six months and has been battling with his mental health daily and has been in such a dark place of wanting to take his own life. This is so sad for a young lad of 12 but this is You’ve given him hope and it’s made him feel and realise he’s not worthless. It’s just like, do you know what?

Speaker 2
03:04 – 03:20
Autumn’s Got Talent is just so much more than a showcase of performers. It’s the friendships that are made behind the stage. And it’s also, as they say, the validation to realise. that Charlie’s not worthless and he most definitely is not and he’s got such an amazing voice.

Speaker 2
03:20 – 03:53
So Daisy Chen and the charity collaborated for the third time this year and next year we’ll be looking again to collaborate with another charity for the Roadshow so keep checking out the charity website. So today I have a guest and I’ve known this lady probably for Maybe it’s about 10 years now, it might be longer than that. I think we first met at the Mum From Nair Awards. And I remember chatting to Lolo and talking to me about, you know, the possibility about her son might be on the autism spectrum.

Speaker 2
03:53 – 04:03
So I’m not going to give too much away. I’m going to introduce you to an author, a Women’s Aid ambassador and the editor of Brood magazine, Lolo Stubbs. Welcome, Lolo.

Speaker 1
04:04 – 04:06
Hi, Anna. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2
04:06 – 04:23
Oh, thank you for taking the time out because I know you’re a busy mum as well as a founder of Brood magazine with four children. So before we talk about autism, before we talk about anything, tell me who Lolo is. So just for people who are listening in to give a snapshot of who you are.

Speaker 1
04:24 – 04:50
Yeah. So as you say, mum of four, but people often are quite surprised when we were told we wouldn’t have any children, that there was like an 8% chance of us ever having any. So four, four miracle babies that we’re very blessed with. And yeah, I have wrote two women’s fiction books, Dressed Up as Love and Dressed Up in Armor.

Speaker 1
04:50 – 05:10
And I donate 20% of the proceeds of those to Women’s Aid. And having worked with them, that’s how I became an ambassador for them. So I’m their respect ambassador. So got into schools and done talks and things and help them raise awareness in general as it’s a cause that’s, you know, close to my heart.

Speaker 1
05:12 – 05:35
And yes, founder and editor of, co-founder and editor of Brood Magazine, which is basically about busy parents who are juggling careers and businesses whilst bringing up the brood. And I know we featured yourself in Brood Magazine, Anna, as a You fit the bill perfectly.

Speaker 2
05:35 – 05:37
Thank you. But where are you from? Where were you born?

Speaker 1
05:38 – 05:53
So, yeah, born in Manchester in 1982. I was 40 last year. And I live with myself, my husband and our four children in Salford. And yeah, big Manchester City fan.

Speaker 1
05:53 – 06:10
I was the tomboy of the family. So I’m not one of the Glory fans. I’ve been supporting them since I was eight years old. Finally, finally got my own little blue army at home as now the kids have took an interest in 18 years on a family, uh, got Robinson football as well.

Speaker 1
06:11 – 06:47
So we’re enjoying it this season. Um, and yeah, just very, you know, passionate about. Fitting as much into life as I can and, and, you know, being a good mom and, um, I live with, um, endometriosis and fibromyalgia, um, and spent quite, quite a lot of time in my twenties. in and out of a wheelchair and so I think that’s given me a huge drive really to kind of make the most out of life and also, you know, help others empower and motivate others really to show them that you know there doesn’t have to be barriers in

Speaker 1
06:47 – 06:51
the way, you know you can really make the most out of things.

Speaker 2
06:51 – 07:02
I was going to say I know quite a few mums that have got fibromyalgia that have got kids on the spectrum so for somebody listening in who might not know what it is do you mind just sharing just a little snapshot of what fibromyalgia is?

Speaker 1
07:03 – 08:23
Yeah so I mean I was diagnosed with it after I’d had a back operation that didn’t go very well and I know that it’s often can be diagnosed following a trauma or an accident or something and it’s basically like really, it’s not tiredness, it’s severe chronic fatigue and some days to the point where even, I always describe it really feeling like almost like my body is a bit like cement and even lifting your arm can be really hard work and as I say, particularly in my 20s, it really did kind of take take hold and I find that it often flares with myself during emotional times and times of stress which when you’ve got children anyway and children on the spectrum where you kind of you know things going on and diagnoses and appointments and things and just everyday life obviously things happen in life that can be quite stressful so I’ve had to kind of find a way to not let it take hold as much and also just kind of manage my diary and use my pots of energy wisely really I suppose and that is something that as I’ve you know gone

Speaker 1
08:23 – 08:56
on over the years I’ve learnt to kind of deal with as best as possible really. So you’ve got four children what age range are they? Yes so they are 11 and 10 and then we thought having them 15 months apart wasn’t hard work the first time enough, let’s do it all again. So we’ve got a four and a three-year-old but they were surprises but yeah after the fourth eventually Rob, my husband, was like I think we’re fertile now, I think it’s time for the snip.

Speaker 1
08:58 – 09:04
So yeah our eldest two are 15 months apart and our youngest two are 13 months apart so

Speaker 2
09:05 – 09:13
Yeah. OK, so two of your children are diagnosed with autism. Yeah. If you don’t mind sharing, you know, how old were they when they were diagnosed?

Speaker 2
09:13 – 09:19
And can I also ask, had you ever heard of autism before your children were diagnosed?

Speaker 1
09:19 – 09:59
Yeah. No, I was I was going to say, you know, with our eldest, he’s 11 now and it was something that I wasn’t overly familiar with. We didn’t know anybody with autism and I suppose it was kind of the only sort of time we’d heard or anybody, you know, there was the age-old Rain Man kind of things and stuff and it really, it was just, there was something instinctive in me really with our eldest that we know, we notice things even as a young, young baby.

Speaker 1
10:00 – 10:51
If we went to say, you know, a party or something, he would jitter and become quite upset but it was more than just, you know, it wasn’t just a baby fussing or he wasn’t tired, it was the jitters more than anything that we used to notice even in the supermarket or anywhere where the sensory was, must have been on overload for him obviously now looking back. And just as he started to develop, he didn’t point when he started to walk, he started walking on his tiptoes. There wasn’t ever an issue with eye contact, so I think as well when we had limited knowledge, it was one of those things, well, oh, it can’t be autism then because he gives you eye contact and that’s what, you know, people would say.

Speaker 1
10:51 – 11:43
And, but I kept, I kept sort of researching a little bit and thinking, well, you know, even though I think he was only 18 months old when I properly started to kind of look for some answers as to little things, it was, I say, more, more instinctive things really. And I was, he was nearly two when I met, when I heard self-talk at the Mumpreneur Awards, Anna, and it was as you were telling your story that it was it was almost like everything, lots of things you said resonated with me and they they was very similar to how Cole was our our eldest and um and yeah it was thankfully you took the time to have a chat with me after the show and that kind of gave me the confidence and the courage to sort of seek further answers really.

Speaker 2
11:43 – 12:24
Yes, I’ve spoken to quite a few parents where, you know, when I’ve been to various different places to give my talk, just recently as well at a breakfast talk, which I’d never done before, there was a few mums that were there and sort of came up to me and I’ve sort of given them the push that, because they’re a bit worried about approaching somebody, you know, am I doing the right thing type of thing. You’ve just got to make that first step and as we know, early intervention is crucial for our kids, so the earlier the support we can get, the better it is. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2
12:24 – 12:30
Your eldest was diagnosed and now you’re youngest. How different was the process? Was it harder? Was it easier?

Speaker 2
12:30 – 12:34
Because obviously you were coming from a bit more, let’s say, an informed position.

Speaker 1
12:35 – 13:05
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think the whole process was really quite scary the first time and he was our first. It was something though, once I’d spoke to yourself and I knew what needed to be done and I’d read about the early intervention, I was adamant that we were going to get that diagnosis for him ahead of starting school. He was a December baby, so he was going to be nearly five when he started school anyway.

Speaker 1
13:05 – 14:05
We decided to keep him an extra year in a private nursery as opposed to sending him into school at nursery level. wanted to make sure that he had that diagnosis in place and his EHCP so that he’d have the right support from the word go and really did have to push for it but at the same time the difference that I’ve found this time around is it’s been Obviously there’s elements of your child going through any journey that’s upsetting, but I haven’t been as emotional this time because I look at our eldest and think, you know, we wouldn’t have him any other way. He is who he is and we’re so proud of him and it’s not as scary as you initially think it can be and so that emotional side of things hasn’t been there as as much in the sense of the autism diagnosis itself but it’s been emotional in terms

Speaker 1
14:05 – 14:40
of trying to get him the help and that early intervention because Hartley, our youngest, was seven weeks premature anyway, an August baby and lived through Covid, so had sort of that year, easily a year, where those sort of times where you would be getting them out into different environments and meeting other people, and he really missed out on that because there was a year’s worth of lockdowns nearly. So, and it was… Harder to get appointments?

Speaker 1
14:40 – 15:26
Absolutely, yeah, it was, I mean, We finally spoke to somebody and I’m trying to, I think we’ve managed to get an appointment eventually because he wasn’t saying mama, he wasn’t saying dada, he wasn’t babbling at all, there wasn’t much noise coming from Hartley and, you know, instinctively other things we thought he’s different to Cole but there’s some similarities there and we knew that it was almost, you know, definite that he was on the spectrum. And we finally got the speech and language therapy assessment, which was a very emotional appointment because he was very distressed. He didn’t want to be in that room, like I say, in lockdowns.

Speaker 1
15:26 – 15:52
And the therapist herself said, you know, have you considered that your son may be on the artisan spectrum? And I said, Yes, we have. And this is obviously part of this stage of helping him to get that diagnosis explained about our eldest. And she said, yeah, you know, we definitely need to get some intervention here because he’s not babbling and, you know, he’s not making any sounds or words.

Speaker 1
15:53 – 16:06
And it then took 18 months before he got an actual speech and language therapy appointment. And that’s a long time, like a child. Absolutely, yeah. Were you off with Portage?

Speaker 1
16:07 – 17:13
No, he had one visit from a nursery nurse from the speech and language therapy department and I think that was purely because we literally, I was ringing once a month in absolute tears because I knew how the early intervention had helped my eldest and it was making me feel like I was failing my youngest because I just didn’t know, you know, where else to turn really. And everything they suggested that we do to help at home, we was already doing kept saying oh yeah you can’t be doing any more and and it really is frustrating and then to wait that long anyway finally get the appointments and you only get five speech language therapy appointments and you know it’s like really not very good because considering autism you know is social communication difficulties it’s just yeah that’s it’s the usual thing that I’ve heard from parents that they get a block of five or six and no more from…

Speaker 1
17:13 – 17:40
Yeah and it’s just, it’s heartbreaking really because I couldn’t, I couldn’t believe when they were saying oh that, you know, he’s discharged now and I thought he’s, he’s basically only, he’s now said seven words, very, some of them only we would know he’s trying to say them, like again is a gee. and he says yogurt and that’s yogi, yogi. But they’re very sporadic and there’s no rhyme.

Speaker 1
17:41 – 17:55
You know, he has said mommy and he said daddy, but it’s very sporadic. There’s no kind of, it’s not once he says it, that’s it, he’s cracked it. And then we add more words to the vocab. So it’s a very different journey with Hartley.

Speaker 1
17:56 – 18:14
So in that sense, you know, that side of it has been emotional and it has been hard because I think if anything, he’s needed that intervention more so than our eldest. He’s not getting it and it’s so frustrating.

Speaker 2
18:15 – 18:17
Where is he at now, Hartley? Where is he now?

Speaker 1
18:17 – 18:50
So he’s in nursery class at school, the same one where his brothers and sisters go, so it is a mainstream school and they did, they’ve done, you know, amazing. They’ve worked with us really well with our eldest Cole and he had a one-on-one all the way through school but just in recent years has been able to be weaned off that so that you know getting prepared obviously is in year six now so he goes to high school in year seven and he’s just done his SATs last week. How was that?

Speaker 1
18:50 – 19:14
Yeah well do you know what Anna every credit to him he took it he really took it in his stride. We said to him, you know, it absolutely doesn’t matter in terms of, you know, how well you’re going to do in life or how we feel about you or anything like that. You just go in and do your best. And, you know, it really isn’t anything to worry about.

Speaker 1
19:14 – 19:33
But the school themselves did prepare it really lovely. They wasn’t sure whether he was going to do them or not. And we asked him and very aware of his diagnosis and, you know, he has a really great group of friends and he talks openly about having autism to them. So he said, no, no, I want to do what my friends are doing.

Speaker 1
19:33 – 19:45
I want to give it a go. And he has a scribe. So he was in a different room to his friends. So because one of the things, firing motor is still quite difficult for Cole.

Speaker 1
19:45 – 20:24
So his understanding of the questions was there, but he couldn’t get it down on paper very well. and so he uses a mixture of a laptop or a scribe and that’s good yeah it’s really helped in the last couple of years and i think it’s really allowed him to demonstrate just how much he does know and understand really and and that was like i said well you know if people need a wheelchair they have a wheelchair they have other accessibility things you know cole is struggling with writing what can what can we do to to help him out so like I say, they quickly introduced a laptop because I said he’s really good on the computer and the scribe and yeah, that’s been amazing.

Speaker 2
20:24 – 20:35
So how’s it preparing him for secondary school? Because obviously he’s going to be moving over to secondary, so I think he’s not going to remain in the same school, so how’s that working?

Speaker 1
20:35 – 21:16
Yeah, so I think at this moment in time, it’s more daunting for us than it is him. because there’s around 50 of the children from his school year that are going to the high school that he’s going to and I say he’s really got a good school year that are really a good group of friends and we’re really fortunate to have that and so he’s quite excited more than anything. I think 12 months ago the thought of it would have quite a lot of tears and a lot of nerves and but the last 12 months he’s really kind of he’s now playing team sport, he’s regularly picked for the goalkeeper at school, and he’s the fastest in his

Speaker 1
21:16 – 21:44
year. So I think, you know, from that moment on that sports day, and everybody now calls him Sonic, the boost to his confidence, a bit like what you were saying before with Autism’s Got Talent, it is the difference that we’ve seen in him. He’s gone to such a confident young man now, and it’s like he comes home from school and they say, I’m the funniest in the year now, you know, mum. And the way he said it, you know, very literal.

Speaker 1
21:45 – 21:53
And we’re like, hi! And we’ve had all the parents saying, oh, they keep getting, they can’t stop laughing now they’re sat next to Cole in school and stuff.

Speaker 2
21:53 – 22:01
So, and it’s all. Some of his friends moving over with him, though, when he goes to. Yeah, there is. So that’s the thing, the safety net.

Speaker 1
22:02 – 22:17
And As I say, I’ve spoke to the high school. Obviously, we did the visits. We did try to get him in a private school. Actually, that was our instinct, which was smaller class sizes.

Speaker 1
22:18 – 22:37
But the council wouldn’t support the funding of the HCP Elements 1, 2 and 3, only Elements 3. And the private school said we can’t accept him unless it’s Elements 1, 2 and 3. even though we’d be paying fees, they needed the full support. So that was a bit upsetting.

Speaker 1
22:37 – 23:10
I think it felt like, you know, the council appreciated what his primary school said and what we said, that those smaller class sizes and that more of a nurturing environment would suit him better. But it’s the cost. Yeah, we’ve just, we’ve know thankfully he’s in the school where his friends are going and we’ve just kind of said right you know he’s happy enough we’ve got to take it one step at a time and really doing the opposite of what I used to do where I’m trying to project how it’s going to work out for him when you don’t know.

Speaker 1
23:10 – 23:12
So I just think a day at a time.

Speaker 2
23:13 – 23:15
Yeah, it’s a good sink or there at the school.

Speaker 1
23:16 – 23:28
Yeah. Yeah. So we spoke to them and we visited that. They’ve got a little like a hope that they call it where if it’s a bit overwhelming in the playground or in the classrooms, he’ll have access to go.

Speaker 2
23:29 – 23:34
OK. Yeah. So you’ve got four children. So how have they adapted with the two books?

Speaker 2
23:35 – 23:39
two boys so you’ve got two on the spectrum and two that are not so how does that work in your house?

Speaker 1
23:41 – 24:24
As you can imagine it’s eventful but our daughter she’s 10 and Cole was only eight months old when we found out we was having her and I do always say that she was like heaven sent almost because Cole when she was born thought she she was just this bundle of noise that he just did not like very much. He was 15 months old and obviously she was a newborn crying so it took a while to get him used to the unexpected noise and everything but it was one day in the bath he made a splash and it made a giggle And I think she was about six months old.

Speaker 1
24:24 – 24:45
And it was like something in his face, it was like, oh. And until that point, he didn’t really interact with any other children. He didn’t like the play centres. He would sit and cover his ears up and go in a corner on his own or, you know, and to the point where then would start avoiding them really and being a new mum and not really knowing what to do.

Speaker 1
24:45 – 25:15
But yeah, Lila Rose, our daughter, she became very quickly his best friend. And yeah, you know, she was, bless her soul, accommodating because I’d say Cole more so than Hartley was our youngest. He, Cole, our eldest, is very, he liked things, you know, he wanted what he wanted on the radio, he wanted what he wanted on the telly. We had to go certain directions or he would get upset and Lots of things like that.

Speaker 1
25:16 – 25:27
Whereas our youngest is a bit more of a free spirit. It’s not necessarily a routine kind of thing. He doesn’t get us triggered by things like that. And so Lila Rose was really very good growing up.

Speaker 1
25:27 – 25:44
Like if we’d be in the car, she’d say, it’s OK, you know, we could put coals on. But it is a fine line that we use that to try and help Cole understand that, you know, we can’t always have it what he wants it because obviously she’s important too and her happiness.

Speaker 2
25:44 – 26:08
You’ve got to be very careful because I’ve spoken to parents where they, later on down the line, where they say, for example, the non-autistic child has spoken up and just said, oh, you’re always so busy with my brother. you know, I didn’t want to make life harder for you and they’ve sort of struggled but they’re worried about saying something so it’s so hard, it’s really hard.

Speaker 1
26:08 – 26:54
It really is, yeah, because I think we noticed probably a couple of years ago really that she really was becoming quite a people pleaser and not really sort of having a voice enough to say, you know, I would like to do this, you know, and that was something that we noticed and we really thought, you know, we could see that I’d come from, it was an easier life for us all if it, if we all did, you know, what, what Cole wanted. But I think, um, when our third came into the mix, um, and they were about six or seven, seven or eight, um, and obviously that was a game, game changer again. And, and, and Cole found it very different that time though.

Speaker 1
26:54 – 27:15
He wasn’t disturbed by, know, the crying of the newborn baby or anything like that. He loved being a big brother. But we kind of thought, you know, it’s going to be very easy for Lila Rose to get lost because we’ve got a newborn. We’ve got our eldest and he’s on the spectrum and, you know, she’s such an accommodating little girl.

Speaker 1
27:15 – 27:26
We really did have to try and have like, say, a mum and daughter day or, you know, really just take turns, turn taking in a lot of things.

Speaker 2
27:26 – 27:29
It sounds like you’ve got it sussed.

Speaker 1
27:30 – 27:45
Well, just the third though, he’s quite the force. You know in the Flintstones, Bam Bam? Oh yeah. He looks like him and he’s kind of a bit like a Mowgli or a Tarzan character, our third.

Speaker 1
27:46 – 28:15
He does like to make himself known and heard. So sometimes when he’s having a little bit, you know, he’s four, he’s having a bit of a tantrum about something, his noise can cause Colt to say, you know, shut up and he’ll have a bit of an outburst. Yeah. And for our youngest, that’s when he really does quite, he will cry if he’s shouting and screaming.

Speaker 1
28:15 – 28:31
So it, it’s obviously you know most of the time we just try and keep it a chilled happy household but obviously there are those moments where it can’t be helped and yeah you just have to just do your best really and not try and beat yourself up I think.

Speaker 2
28:31 – 29:05
That’s the thing you can only do your best there’s no like magical powers that and obviously with four children with very different know needs and yeah it’s really hard especially within the current climate we’re living in at the moment as well. So do you think there’s still a lot more to be done to help people understand more about autism? You know we keep talking about autism awareness but as the autistic individuals are saying they want to be accepted they’re saying they feel that autism awareness is obviously much better now but they want to be accepted.

Speaker 1
29:05 – 29:06
Yeah.

Speaker 2
29:06 – 29:16
So do you think it’s getting better and what is it like in Manchester, would you say? Is it just like any other local authority or do you think it’s tough?

Speaker 1
29:16 – 30:00
I think, yeah, I think there’s obviously, there’s been a lot has happened since obviously, you know, with our first, we’ve gone through that journey, that’s the last 10 years and notice people talking about autism more. Obviously you’ve had, you know, Chris Packham’s come out and spoke about autism. Christine McGuinness, and there’s an actress that used to be on Hollyoaks, she’s come out and spoken about it, and I think that’s helped change, obviously give awareness to autism, and I watch the Inside an Autistic Mind. Yeah, that’s where, yeah, yeah, and, and You know, I thought that was so interesting.

Speaker 1
30:01 – 30:12
And the episode I watched with the young man, I can’t remember his name now, but he was a non-speaking artist.

Speaker 2
30:12 – 30:13
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1
30:13 – 30:24
Yeah. And it showed just how much he understood how intelligent he was and how he wanted to have a voice. And he ended up going to college at the end of the program.

Speaker 2
30:24 – 30:24
Yeah.

Speaker 1
30:25 – 31:13
and I think that showed for me something that around the awareness side of things is obviously like with our little boy who’s you know he’s only three and a half so he may end up speaking he may not we don’t know what his journey’s gonna be but already I think he’s kind of dismissed by some people um even some people in who are Senko figures that he doesn’t quite understand things or, you know, it almost dismissed as not having a personality with feelings, with interests and things. And I find that quite hard. And I think that there does need to be more awareness just in that I think people hear the word autism, but still and the spectrum.

Speaker 1
31:13 – 32:02
So they might now like with our eldest, we used to get a lot of, oh, you would never tell, you know, you wouldn’t tell he’s autistic. You know, and I think it’s just sort of saying, you know, if you meet one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism, same as everybody in every walk of life, everybody’s different. And so I think the awareness about the spectrum is there, but maybe not the full understanding that if somebody is non-speaking, that doesn’t mean they don’t understand or, you know, they don’t have interest. know just because and on the other end is if somebody looks like they’re not artistic or you know they look to be functioning well in the world doesn’t mean that they don’t still have those triggers or those needs that need to be that people need to be aware

Speaker 1
32:02 – 32:44
of um and like you say then then it’s just the acceptance part of it and and really and I think what you’re doing with autism’s got talent is really a good example of that of of showing that you know, society need to accept people with autism as have, you know, they have talents, they’re wonderful people, they’re just, you know, it’s not, I would say to my boy, you know, you’ve just got different, it’s different abilities, not a disability, you know, he’s, you know, I think that’s the main thing really, I’m trying to explain it in the best way possible, but from that side.

Speaker 2
32:44 – 33:10
I think the thing is though you’ll sometimes get where you’ll say I’ve got a son on the spectrum you know he’s autistic and I say oh what’s his special talent then and it’s just like yeah it’s not it’s just yeah that’s the bit I find frustrating you know there’s not a long way to go. Do you think there’s still stigma attached to people being diagnosed autistic so say for example and what was it like when you sort of shared it with your extended family?

Speaker 1
33:11 – 33:33
I mean, we’ve got a really close family and we’re lucky like that. And there was mixed reactions, I think, with our eldest. It was very, some people were quite upset. I think, again, it was not a lot of understanding about what it actually would mean for him.

Speaker 1
33:34 – 34:38
And, you know, I think people automatically assumed that it meant almost his life was written off, that he had, you know, limitations that meant that he’d, you know, always need assistance and caring, a whole range of things. And that, we tried not to get frustrated by that and just try and help others to understand and learn the way that we was learning, that it doesn’t, it’s not, you know, it’s hard that like, say when people, understanding is limited and they might say, oh yes, but they will have, you know, people with autism, they’re really good at something though, aren’t they? And it’s like, well, you know, they can be good at a whole range of things or, you know, it’s getting away from that fact that it’s not just a box that everybody with autism is in and just getting people to understand that, I think, and the extended family,

Speaker 1
34:38 – 35:19
I think, have been really good at learning and, you know, I will send a message and say, oh, there’s a programme, you know, if you want to watch it at some point, like Inside the Autistic Mind, and I think that’s helped them to understand with our youngest, because again, it’s a totally different journey. I know my dad was always very, very close with our eldest from him being a baby, like he adored his granddad, really special relationship. But with our youngest, Hartley hasn’t naturally engaged with my dad, because I think of lockdown as well.

Speaker 1
35:19 – 35:40
It’s been very in the main just myself and my husband but that’s been expanding the last 12 months and you know that it’s just reassuring your family members that you know just keep trying and you know don’t be offended by it and you know just helping people to understand really.

Speaker 2
35:41 – 35:53
So if you had to give some advice to a parent that may think that their child is on the spectrum what advice would you give now with hindsight of obviously going down that journey with both your boys?

Speaker 1
35:54 – 36:50
Yeah I mean obviously you have to reach out and speak to like your health visitor if they’re still under the health visitor or you know speak to your GP. I mean ours were both under the health visitor and that was the first point of call and but I would also recommend talking to charities like Anna Kennedy online and reach or reaching out to any local support or speaking if you know something because you know I’ve had people just send me a Facebook message or an Instagram and say you know even if they’re just somebody a fellow mum at school that don’t really you know I’ll only know to say hello or even somebody I don’t know if nine times out of ten I would say that if somebody reaches out to somebody that’s gone through that experience then you don’t mind helping or giving advice and I think it can really help you.

Speaker 1
36:50 – 37:52
I know I certainly don’t if somebody reaches out to me I’ll help them in the best way that I can and so it’s nice to kind of talk to other parents that have been through that and also getting that professional advice and support from charities like yourself is is so important and just to support yourself as well because it is a big journey and you know all you ever want is the very best for your child and I think the more advice and support you seek the better equipped you feel to help them and I think that could take away a little bit of that helplessness that sometimes if it’s a totally new experience for you you do feel helpless and you want to help but you don’t necessarily know how to and I think the more empowered you can make yourself by reaching out to other people and just as well to have somebody just to have a chat to if you’ve a bad day or an emotional day.

Speaker 2
37:52 – 38:11
That can be quite lonely, can’t it? It can be quite a lonely journey. I’ve spoken to parents where they feel really lonely and they might have lost some of their friends because of it because they don’t really understand. So yeah, I think And the other thing is, I think sometimes social media can be quite good, stuff that you don’t know.

Speaker 2
38:11 – 38:28
I find Facebook particularly good for families when they, you know, they might be looking for something or they might want a bit of tips and advice. They can just post it out on Facebook and just say, hey, you know, if you’re part of a group, I’m really struggling with this. Has anyone been down this journey before? Or has anyone experienced this?

Speaker 2
38:28 – 38:38
Am I doing something wrong? And then when you hear that the other families or the other parents and carers have gone, you know, experience something similar to you, you don’t feel oh it’s not only me then type of thing.

Speaker 1
38:38 – 39:05
Yeah yeah definitely and I think that that’s been a difference as well for us with our fourth um with Hartley, it is different in this time obviously we have a son who has autism but now we actually know you know that there’s a lot of people and families that we know are, you know, like you say, the wider circles through social media, people that you connect with. I mean, there was one lady I met through Women’s Aid. I sat next to her.

Speaker 1
39:05 – 39:27
We went to watch Britain’s Got Talent. We got on really well and we had connection through Women’s Aid, but through talking. Her son was at a very similar age to Hartley and she was going through a very, very similar process with him. you know, that’s been something nice to kind of see and stay connected with her about.

Speaker 1
39:27 – 39:42
And, you know, I think sometimes it can just, it just really helps to feel like, you know, you’re not alone. that that is a real good side social media obviously there are the bad sides to it but that is a positive I think with social media.

Speaker 2
39:42 – 39:51
I think Facebook’s definitely good for families so you’ve mentioned Women’s Aid a few times can you tell me a little bit about exactly what it is and what your role is?

Speaker 1
39:53 – 40:54
Yeah so Women’s Aid is a charity that helps women and children who have suffered domestic abuse and I kind of so I wrote my books based on my own experiences of domestic abuse when I was younger and I’ve had a lot of friends that have experienced it as well and it was just something that was really kind of meant a lot to me and obviously because the book was sort of on that topic I reached out to Women’s Aid and said you know I felt a bit at first I was like oh it might be really embarrassing if I don’t sell any copies but you know I reached out I said if you read it and you know see what you think and they thankfully really enjoyed the story and yeah they asked asked me would I become one of their ambassadors.

Speaker 2
40:54 – 40:57
Oh that’s nice, so are the books for children or are they for older people?

Speaker 1
40:57 – 41:40
No, they’re women’s fiction books, so yeah, they’re adult, women’s adult fiction and yeah, it’s Dressed Up As Love is basically, that’s where the title was inspired in that it’s something that’s dressed up as love and you know it’s presented as being love but it’s not love and the sequel is dressed up in armour and that comes from people saying, is there going to be a sequel? Which I was very grateful to hear. So I wrote that and that’s about the kind of journey afterwards and how, you know, almost you’re putting on your armour every day because things don’t always get better instantly.

Speaker 1
41:40 – 41:42
for yourself so yeah.

Speaker 2
41:42 – 41:49
So if people want to read your books you know they might be listening in and thinking oh it might be something I want to read, where would they find them?

Speaker 1
41:50 – 42:09
So they’re on Amazon and Waterstones online if you’re in the UK, they’re on Barnes and Noble online in America and yeah you can get the links through my website which is www.lolostubs.com

Speaker 2
42:10 – 42:27
OK, so that’s spelled L-O-L-O and then Stubbs double B-S-T-U double B-S. And also there’ll be an article on the charity website with the links on there. So he didn’t quite grab a pen or didn’t quite get it down there. the information will be on the charity website.

Speaker 2
42:28 – 42:42
So you are the founder also of Brood magazine, so talk to me about how this came about and how are you struggling or coping with the vaccine and everything else that’s going on?

Speaker 1
42:42 – 43:09
I think I have a problem. I think it came from a bit again about what we were talking about, about reaching out to people and connecting to people. And it came from a bit of wanting to build a bit of a community. of people that understand being a working parent and juggling a career or, you know, running a business.

Speaker 1
43:09 – 44:03
And because I think when the children started school, I think the minute you kind of added into some of the WhatsApp groups or you’re making friends on the playground and with other parents, you can feel quite, it can feel quite different to some of the parents who have chosen are lucky enough to stay at home, or that’s their chosen path. To be fair, I always thought I would want to be a stay-at-home mum, but I think it was because my twenties were in the main, in and out of a wheelchair, I couldn’t really work and I didn’t have children and it all kind of came at once in my 30s and I think somebody said to me well obviously you’re not going to want to work anymore and I thought well actually yes I do because I haven’t been able to kind of get anywhere near where I wanted to get in in my career life and I

Speaker 1
44:03 – 44:49
thought you know no I can do it, I can do it all and I’m going to find a way and that the way that I found to do that was through running a business because basically because I couldn’t hold down a job because my health can be quite up and down but now you know I can work behind my laptop and have my messy bun on my head and my feet up and nobody would know any difference so that was a way for me to have a career but still be at home with the children and But it’s not easy, you know, there’s good points that some days I can go, you know, right, we’re going to have a family day, you know, our half term’s coming up, I’m going to work doubly hard the week before so that I can have a half term off.

Speaker 1
44:49 – 45:15
It’s not always the case, there’s always something comes up. But that was what I found works for us as a family and also Rob, my husband, who is an amazing dad and husband and also one of the co-founders of Brood. He’s the digital whiz, along with our business partner, Tom, who we’d worked with for a couple of years through the business. He’s a photographer and he’s got two children.

Speaker 1
45:16 – 45:58
And I’d said, look, I’ve got this goal in my book that is about starting a magazine that shares motivational, inspirational stories, highlighting other people that have been there and done it, or that are doing it, so that they make you feel like, do you know what, on the bad days you can pick it up and be inspired to keep going, or you can take little tips away and stuff. and also wanted to, you know, fill it with knowledge and just share lots of things that’s useful for family life and for running a business or chasing your career dreams. So that’s where it came from, really.

Speaker 1
45:58 – 46:10
It’s just over a year old now. We’ve had some great people featured, obviously yourself. I know you’re one of the great people we’ve been lucky enough to feature. We’ve had Helen Skelton sharing her story.

Speaker 1
46:11 – 46:18
Rebecca Adlington, Kelvin and Liz Fletcher. Kelvin used to be on Emmerdale and he did Strictly Come Dancing.

Speaker 2
46:18 – 46:20
Oh yeah, he was good on Strictly.

Speaker 1
46:20 – 46:49
Yeah, oh yeah, he was very good wasn’t he, but theirs was such a fun interview because I finally found someone crazier than me. So we went down to, they’ve got a farm and four children, so I was like, yeah, so we went down to their farm and interviewed them, but they, again, they were really It was really inspiring to hear their story, how they just got an idea, you know, and put the wheels into motion. And I think, you know, it has been really rewarding to see the amount of people that we, you know, we don’t know them.

Speaker 1
46:49 – 47:10
They’ve just become readers and, you know, we’ve become friendly over social media. they really take, get a lot from the magazine. I mean, I know you follow it, Anna, and like some, some days we’ll put something funny on that might just be a bit lighthearted about being a parent. Other times it can be that motivation that you might just need to see in the morning.

Speaker 1
47:10 – 47:35
And I think it’s been really useful. And we’ve actually got our first live event in June. Yeah. So you’ll have to come along and yeah we’re just kind of working on that at the moment and it’s just going to be a really fun day packed with you know people sharing their journeys and also sharing knowledge how you can improve your business life and your family

Speaker 1
47:35 – 47:47
life so we’re really excited about that and the future of Brood and again I think it helps us as much as it’s hard work it’s nice you know we get a lot from that so

Speaker 2
47:47 – 47:53
So if people are looking to, they might like to read the magazine, can you get a physical copy or is it just online?

Speaker 1
47:54 – 48:39
Yeah so currently, while we were kind of just launching it and figuring out where it was going to go and everything, we kept it to being a digital magazine so you can read it at www.broodmagazine.com and you can also get a, we do coffee table books though that’s the physical format that we thought was a bit more sustainable and a nice way for people to sort of keep, because they’re all, it’s all evergreen content that, you know, it never gets old. So we’re actually just in the process of finalising the one year of Brood coffee table book. So, yeah, so obviously you’ll be in that as well.

Speaker 1
48:39 – 48:45
So we’ll be shouting about that soon as well. So, so yeah, it’s exciting.

Speaker 2
48:45 – 48:47
where can you see yourself in 10 years?

Speaker 1
48:47 – 49:40
Go on. Well, the original vision was to be kind of the parents version of like a Forbes kind of magazine with kind of a bit of the, you know, the nice style of Vogue kind of, so yeah, just kind of, I think, we we definitely we’re growing the team um we it would be nice to we want to find a way to do print um and have that in the shops because we know people still like a physical magazine i know i do myself yeah things online now digital even like yeah sort of going you go to the shop you know a lot of people still like to pay cash they don’t want to keep using that’s it yeah and the same with my books when i you know i’ve wrote my books you know um we just um my third one’s coming out we’re doing it

Speaker 1
49:41 – 50:20
in a hard copy as well because people have got the paperback, got the e-book but I know myself, I like to hold a book so with the magazine we are, we’ve just started talking because obviously we’re a year old now, we know we’ve got the readership there, we know the interest is there and we’re only growing from strength to strength so definitely to look at doing the printed copies. It’ll probably be every quarter because like I say we want to make it sustainable as well because obviously you know the environment is a is obviously a big issue that all of us, especially as parents, are thinking about. So just to make sure that we use it in a sensible way with recycled paper and things.

Speaker 1
50:21 – 50:37
But yeah, obviously it’s a UK-based magazine, but you know, the world’s our oyster. We have already had people from, you know, America and Australia sort of starting to read it. So who knows, Anna? Yeah, if you don’t try, you never know, I always say.

Speaker 1
50:38 – 50:40
Yeah, dream big. So that’s our motto.

Speaker 2
50:40 – 51:02
So, as you know, I’ve got a petition ongoing with reference to a question at the back of parents’ minds, especially children who are autistic or adults who are autistic, who is going to look after our sons or children or loved ones when we are no longer around? What are your hopes and dreams for your boys?

Speaker 1
51:03 – 51:24
I mean, obviously, first and foremost, like all our children, we just want them to be happy. and to feel safe and happy. And I really hope, I mean, as I say, the last 12 months, it’s been really nice for Cole to find the things that he’s particularly good at and to watch his confidence soar. And that confidence has allowed him to take on more things.

Speaker 1
51:24 – 51:56
So I want them to be able to find something that they love, that they can thrive into the very best of their abilities. I know, as I mentioned with myself having a disability, I think one of the other reasons that pushes me more than anything is to show the children. I think when Cole got his diagnosis, I thought, you know, I can’t show any barriers. I can’t say I can’t do that because, you know, I want to show him that, okay, it might not be a straightforward road, but we can do this.

Speaker 1
51:57 – 52:19
We just have to, you know, change our way of getting there. It might be a different path and there might be bumps along the way, but you can do anything that you put your mind to. And so I think I really want that to be encouraged. We do, when the confidence can get affected at times, we have a routine every morning of positive affirmations.

Speaker 1
52:19 – 52:27
And I don’t let them leave the house without saying, I’m kind, I’m clever. I am funny. I am handsome. Um, I am brilliant and we’re going to have the best day.

Speaker 1
52:28 – 52:57
Um, um, you know, that’s something that kind of like now as they get a bit older, like, okay, mom, you know, um, the four year old, he shouts at the top of his voice and then know that the, I know that they really helps them as well. And, and it did help a particular couple of years ago with Cole’s confidence. So just making sure that that’s instilled in him. And obviously with Hartley, trying to find a way to communicate with him to the best way.

Speaker 1
52:57 – 53:43
I mean, obviously we have our, we know, you know, he’s our boy. We, we, he communicates with us by the way he looks in our eyes or the way he touches our face or, you know, he laughs and, you know, we have, we have our way, but to try and help him find a way to communicate, be that speaking. or in a non-speaking way so that he can communicate to his peers and his teachers and things. And going back to what you said about looking after them when we’re not around, and I think, obviously, you know, Cole’s come on leaps and bounds and I have every every faith that Cole will be able to, you know, live independently and continue to keep thriving.

Speaker 1
53:43 – 54:32
It wasn’t something that we were always sure whether he would or he wouldn’t, but where he’s at now, I think that he will only continue to, to, to keep going down that path. And I’m pretty sure that he will be okay. Um, but with Hartley, you know, it is something myself and my husband have kind of spoke about, and that’s one of the times where you do feel you get upset and have to stop yourself going down that rabbit hole to submit them, you know, it’s blurry but equally it’s something that’s in the back of your mind and I think it’s amazing what you’re doing, you know, with the petition because it’s so important because if something did happen, you know, who steps in straight away to help and, you know, and it’s something obviously know Hartley’s lucky

Speaker 1
54:32 – 55:00
that he’s going to have his older brother Cole and Lila Rose and Archer and I’m sure they’ll be very close. We’re a really close-knit family but as well it’s not something you can automatically assume that they’re going to be able to take on board when they’ve got families of their own. So yeah just making sure they reach the full potential that they can achieve whatever capacity that may be and that they’re happy and have peace of mind that they’re going to be safe as well.

Speaker 2
55:00 – 55:58
It’s definitely a big thing and also just to remind parents as well listening in that you know make sure that you get all your affairs in order type of thing and if you go onto the Mencap website they’ve got workshops to help you you know write your will or you know make provisions in place if you like because the last thing you want is social services coming in and taking it yeah so it’s just it’s really for me it’s I know it’s something you don’t want to think about but it’s best to plan so have a check of Mencap website and they do workshops and you know making a will or setting up a trust so it’s really useful information so obviously you’re a busy lady and we’re a program about mental health and well-being so what do you do just for you that’s not autism related how do you relax what do you do to recharge your batteries, especially like you have fibromyalgia, which can be, you know, can be quite physically for you.

Speaker 1
55:59 – 56:20
Um, I say I’m really good with my diary now, so I know if there’s a, I mean, you know, I visit London regularly for work and stuff. So if I know I’m in London at the end of the week, I’ll make sure the beginning of the week is really quite kind of chilled and I’m only working from home. Um, so managing my diary is really key. Um, I meditate every day.

Speaker 2
56:20 – 56:24
Yeah. Try doing that, you know, it just doesn’t work for me.

Speaker 1
56:25 – 56:45
Yeah. Well, do you know what I do, though, because it’s it’s it’s hard, I think, to switch off your mind when you’ve got so much going on in your life. And I often I found that I was just my mind was worrying, but as well, I struggle sleeping. So what I found is that I put on a meditation that is just before you go to sleep.

Speaker 1
56:46 – 57:09
and it’s more of a subliminal one so that it’s not too distracting with all the noise and the words. So I just leave it on while I’m asleep but it’s really helped with my pain and I feel a lot more relaxed these days and I’d say I’ve been doing that properly really for about a year so that’s something like in my diary I always make sure tick. What do you actually have to do? What is it you have to do?

Speaker 1
57:09 – 57:48
Well with those ones you just have to fall asleep really so that’s not true. I do do the odd one in the day but as I say I do find that harder like a quick 15 minute one in the day. I think if I feel overwhelmed I think right I just go on YouTube there’s certain ones that I find better than others but I’ll put a 15 minute one on and it is hard like I say when you’ve got lots on your mind but I think sometimes when you’re overwhelmed if you can grab 15 minutes just to go right it’s my lunch hour I’ll do that or I’m a bit like yourself, Anna, I do love a dance, so I’ll pop a bit of Spotify and I’ve got different playlists to match my mood.

Speaker 1
57:52 – 58:18
But again, when I’m sore, dancing isn’t really an option, but the music can still lift me, so I have to make sure I put one on that doesn’t make me want to shake my bum in my chair too much. And socialising, I think I’m know, I love spending a bit of time with my friends because my husband and I work together, we live together, we’ve got the kids together, you know, and we’re best friends.

Speaker 2
58:18 – 58:20
Yeah, you need to have a little bit of time out, don’t you?

Speaker 1
58:20 – 58:53
Yeah, yeah, so my football, I’m a season ticket holder at City, that’s my, yeah, I love it and now the kids are getting a bit older. I used to have to miss a couple of games over the last few years with babies being small it wasn’t quite fair for me to leave Rob with all four while I went off gallivanting and enjoying the football every other week. But now, you know, now the pottering about, or most of the time the older ones are with the friends at weekend or parties or whatever. So yeah, I make sure I go to as many football matches as possible because that’s like my thing.

Speaker 2
58:54 – 58:58
It’s been lovely talking to you. I’m going to have to stop because we’re running out of time.

Speaker 1
58:58 – 58:59
Well, no, it’s been lovely, yeah.

Speaker 2
58:59 – 59:08
It’s been really lovely talking to you, catching up, and thank you for all the tips and advice. And people interested in the magazine, what’s quickly, what’s the link?

Speaker 1
59:09 – 59:15
So it’s broodmagazine.com or insta is at broodmagazine.

Speaker 2
59:16 – 1:00:12
Okay so if you’re interested but the information will also be on the charity website just to remind you www.annakennedyonline.com and if you want to follow me on social media it’s at anna kennedy one on twitter anna kennedy online on facebook and at anna kennedy obe on instagram again a pleasure to talk to you lolo and best wishes to all the family and hopefully we can catch up again soon and just to everybody keep going one day at a time know you will get there and you’ve got to remember to try and take five out just for yourself so take five um to um try and recharge your batteries and i know it’s really difficult but you know we need to um try and do it because we need time for ourselves um yeah and all i wish i had was a little bit more sleep try meditating yeah i’ll have to i’ll have to try that again so um yes so to everybody Please keep going one day at a time.

Speaker 2
1:00:13 – 1:00:19
Thank you to everyone for listening and best wishes. Bye everyone. Thank you. Bye.