[Speaker 2] (0:02 – 7:00)
Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We’re talking all things autism and what a beautiful sunny day it is in the UK today. My guest is coming all the way from the west, but before I introduce you to the wonderful Dan, I’m just going to, as I say, go through everything that’s been happening.

So Angelo’s been off for a couple of weeks and I’ve been juggling work, walking, you name it, I’ve been doing it. And it’s been, yeah, let’s just say it’s been interesting and tiring and I’m glad to be back in the office. So don’t forget, Autism’s Got Talent is happening very soon and that will be in the northeast and that will be at the Globe Theatre in Stockton.

So if you’re interested, tickets are on sale. We’re so excited not long to go. That will be happening on May the 20th in collaboration with Daisy Chain and talking about Daisy Chain.

They are doing some fantastic things and they’ve just just recently opened their Daisy Chain Superstore, one of the biggest charity stores and that’s in Gateshead. They have one in Middlesbrough in Stockton where I am from. So I’m so excited to be able to go visit it very, very soon.

Daisy Chain have been going for quite some time now and I’ve been their patron for about seven years. So we’re very excited about the show and we’re highlighting each performer as we get nearer to everybody performing on stage. I’ve been speaking to families and they are absolutely buzzing.

They cannot wait to perform and show their talent to the audience. We’re also looking, as you know, for Autism’s Got Talent. We’ve been doing that for 12 years now and that’s our main show in central London.

So if you’re interested, whether you’re a singer, you might be a dancer, whether you dance on your own solo or in a group, we want to see you. If you’re a magician or you might be a musician again, whether you’re a band or you play on your own or you play the guitar or flute, we want to see your audition. The closing date is the 16th of June.

So we want to see everything. We want to see it. I get so excited and we have entries that come from not only the UK, from all over the world.

So we’ve had them in the past from Morocco. We’ve had them from the United States. We’ve had them from Italy.

We’ve had them from France, from Croatia. So we want to see your talent. So check out the charity website just to remind you.

It’s www.annakennedyonline.com. We’ve also got the Autism Hero Awards. So the entries for that and the nominations will be closing again very soon.

So if you know somebody that goes the extra mile within the autism community, we want to hear about them. There are 12 different categories. Again, check out all the different categories on the charity website.

Send in your nominations and then the judges will have the tough, tough, tough, tough task of choosing three finalists for each section. And you can guarantee that they will always ask for extra time because it’s so difficult to choose the three finalists. Then they will travel down to London.

We’ve finally got a hotel, which is the Tower Hotel in London, very near to the Tower Bridge. And that will be happening in November. And we will invite all the 36 finalists down to London.

And then the winners will be announced on the night. Very emotional. We’ll need tissues if you’re coming along.

So that’s exciting, too. Again, to remind you about our Autism Charity Expo at Brunel University. We have four speakers.

We have three clinics. So if you feel you might need to come along and get some advice, whether it’s legal, whether it’s about behaviour, whether it’s about just want to chat, you might just want to chat and network with people. We have 25 exhibition stands.

Usually they’re stands that have been set up by parents that maybe might have to give up their job to look after their children because of maybe that they can’t find a school for them or whatever it is that they feel that why they need to set up a business. It could be a resource, could be books, could be selling sensory toys. Come along and come and support the event at Brunel University.

Car parking is free and you need to book your tickets online. Again, just to remind you, www.annikennedyonline.com. As you know, I always am promoting books.

So we still have some books in the office from a tier to here. Autism A Family Journey by Dawn Avery. It’s about her son, Aston, who’s one of my charity ambassadors.

So this book was written originally as a form of therapy. I was struggling as Aston was growing. I found myself being lost in my poetry.

I decided to note down my feelings. And this book evolved. Our family had a journey, many in our experience.

Back then, autism was not so understood. If you’re interested, we have books that are in the office. We can send them to you.

It’s about our charity ambassador, Aston Avery, who, as you know, is also on the radio, on Gateway Radio, where we do all things autism and ethics, which happens once a month. Just to remind you as well about Born Anxious, of which I am an ambassador. As you know, our children sometimes can have sensory issues with reference to clothing.

I know that with my son, Angelo, just recently I bought him a top t-shirt and I forgot to cut the label out. And there he is trying to pull the label out and what happened. Nice big hole at the side of his t-shirt.

But Born Anxious, they’re a clothing label to help children and adults with autism. So Born Anxious is a home grown clothing label set up by Kelly Barker, also one of my charity champions and a mother of Oscar, an autistic child living in Herne Bay, Kent. Born Anxious raises awareness of autism and invisible disabilities in two ways.

It can be worn to inform or it can be worn in support. So if you want to check out this particular website, it’s www.bornanxious.co.uk. Again, all the information is on the charity website. So I’m so excited to finally speak to my guests today.

So after 10 years of working for major film studios, Dan Watt decided to focus on stories exploring the human experience, humanity, spirituality and social issues. He is the producer and director of the documentary Everybody Dance. Currently on iTunes, Apple TV, Google Play and Amazon Prime.

He was a producer on the award-winning film The Centre. Gibbons and Guardians featuring Jane Goodall. Dan was also the associate producer of the online documentary series Wild Ride.

Following the wildlife generation pro cycling team across America and to China. He’s currently a production of an untitled documentary with a Tony and Pulitzer Prize-winning producer. Darryl Roth.

Welcome, Dan.

[Speaker 1] (7:01 – 7:04)
Well, hello. It’s so nice to finally meet you.

[Speaker 2] (7:04 – 7:18)
Oh, I’m so pleased. And I’ve watched your documentary, but we’ll talk a little bit about that a little bit later on. So as you know, I always ask people before we talk about the subject matter, who is Dan and where are you from?

[Speaker 1] (7:19 – 8:38)
Well, I currently live in Los Angeles and I’ve been out here for probably 25 years. And prior to this, I lived in Ohio and I studied dance there and fell in love with it and studied in New York. So that gives a little background that led to this actual film.

I actually started dancing when I was probably in fourth grade and I didn’t know this until I started looking back because my mom and dad took ballroom. And I didn’t study ballroom. When I studied dance, I studied jazz and ballet.

But I then realized that I used to always go to the studio with them so they didn’t have to pay for a babysitter. And I remembered that whenever someone’s partner didn’t show up, they would always ask me to step in. So there were times that I was the husband and leading.

And then there were times that I was the wife and followed. They would go, hey, my husband’s sick, come on, step in. But it was interesting how I totally forgot that I did that with my parents.

But that actually, I think sparked my love of dance way back when and not even knowing it.

[Speaker 2] (8:38 – 9:40)
I think everyone should learn how to dance. I started dancing when I was five and I used to do tap dancing. I absolutely love tap dancing.

I’ve shared this before, but when I was at school, I was always like tapping my feet under the desk. And my teacher said I was driving her mat. So she said to my parents, your daughter is driving me mad.

She’s continuously tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap under the desk. She said, there’s a tap dancing class not far from the school. And why don’t you take her along?

She might enjoy it. So I went along and I absolutely loved it. So I did tap dancing.

I did jazz. I did disco. I did ballet, but I must admit it wasn’t my favorite.

I’m very much a person that I like to do fast things. Like I like to do fast jazz, fast tap. And that was my thing.

And I became like Northeast Dance Tap Champion. So I still tap dance in the kitchen now. And I always remember in the olden days, we used to have those twin tub washing machines.

They sort of used to make that noise.

[Speaker 1] (9:40 – 9:41)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (9:42 – 9:52)
And I used to tap dance next to the washing machine, to the rhythm. And my mom said I used to wear down the lino in where the washing machine was. So yeah, I absolutely love dancing.

[Speaker 1] (9:53 – 9:59)
Yeah, and I agree with you. I think everybody, all kids should be exposed to some type of art form.

[Speaker 2] (10:00 – 10:01)
So do you still dance now?

[Speaker 1] (10:03 – 10:54)
Well, only in my kitchen. I was lucky enough to get into a dance company when I moved out here called On Our Toes, and I toured for quite a few years. But then I also loved musical theater, and I got hired to choreograph shows.

So I branched out into that aspect of it. And then after I choreographed some shows, I just felt that I can do better than this. I can produce a better show than this.

So I then started producing the musicals along with choreographing them. And that led to the producing side of where I actually am now. I just switched from live theater to film and television.

[Speaker 2] (10:55 – 11:05)
Wow, that’s amazing. Have you got any links or something that you could share with me, if any of the shows that you might have choreographed, I’m just seeing sections I’d be interested in having a look.

[Speaker 1] (11:05 – 11:27)
Oh, of course. I remember, you know how they tell you not to read your reviews, and my mom cut out one of them. It’s one of the first shows I did, I choreographed Oklahoma.

The person that reviewed it out here in Los Angeles said, the choreography is just as stellar as that on Broadway. And I was like, oh.

[Speaker 2] (11:28 – 11:29)
I bet you’re on the moon.

[Speaker 1] (11:30 – 11:34)
I bet my mom had it in her bottom drawer of her dresser for years.

[Speaker 2] (11:36 – 11:49)
So congratulations on the release of Everybody Dance. So this is your first documentary. So can you share with me a little bit about your background and why you decided to make this film?

[Speaker 1] (11:50 – 13:06)
Yeah, well, like I said, I produced live theater for about 10 years. And I realized I could either start over with show number one and produce them all over again. I had 56 shows that I had done.

But I thought that’s not challenging. I always wanted to be in film and television. So I took the leap.

I thought, well, you know what? If you want to work in film and television, either do it now or it’ll be too late. So I made the decision to jump.

And I was lucky enough that I got hired by Columbia Pictures. And I was in their scripted, their development department of movies. The first movie I worked on was House Bunny.

I don’t know if you guys got it over there with Anna Faris. And then I worked on some movies with Jennifer Aniston. And then, but I always loved real true stories.

And Simon Cowell decided to start a production company here in the U.S. And he wanted to do scripted television and scripted movies and branch out from reality. So he created this department in his company and took me on board. And I worked on the first movie we did was the One Direction movie following the band.

[Speaker 2] (13:07 – 13:08)
Oh, okay. I thought that was good.

[Speaker 1] (13:09 – 13:16)
Yeah, that was a whirlwind. You know, he starts a company and 10 days later we’re filming. I’m like, oh, okay.

[Speaker 2] (13:19 – 13:23)
So how was that experience for you? Were you obviously hitting the ground running?

[Speaker 1] (13:24 – 14:25)
Yeah, yeah. And it was the guys, the back then they were boys. They were so young.

We’re wide-eyed and so interested in what was going on and putting their record together and then having being filmed with everything that they did. But I also got to meet Morgan Spurlock, who is a documentary filmmaker here because he was hired as the director. And that was pivotal to me because he actually helped me with this film.

And he was like a guardian angel. So I, after working with him for a year on that film, we just became friends. And when I decided to go independently and make this film, he was there.

You know, he held my hand. I would text him and go, I don’t know if I could finish. I don’t know if I can go on.

And he would call me within five minutes. So we developed a great friendship through that.

[Speaker 2] (14:25 – 14:40)
Well, that’s good. It’s good to have a mentor or somebody to support you along the way because sometimes you can doubt yourself even though you know that, you know, you can start going in the right direction. Also, it’s good to get pointers and obviously get an objective view.

So what drew you to this particular subject matter?

[Speaker 1] (14:42 – 16:34)
Well, I knew after, I knew I always wanted to do something. My film needed to be about the arts, but I wasn’t sure my way into the film. I was always fascinated with, like you with your tap dancing.

If your parents made you take an art form, be it piano, singing, dancing, whatever it was, and you didn’t make a profession out of it. How did that, did those disciplines help you in your everyday life? That always fascinated me because I was lucky enough to get in a dance company and be able to make a career out of it.

So that was my initial idea and concept. And then I actually had a dream because when I was choreographing, I also taught and I had a dream and we’re talking, this is like 17 years ago. I had a dream about Fran and her two daughters.

And her two daughters had autism. And I woke up and I thought, wow, why did you dream about Fran? You know, I haven’t seen these adorable kids and her in like 17 years.

And I didn’t give it any more thought than that. But then I had the dream again two weeks later. And I thought, you know what, this is God poking me.

This is him saying, this is your movie. I am telling you, this is your way in. Here’s your movie because the dreams were so vivid.

So I just took that as a sign and I trusted my gut. And I decided to look into kids with different disabilities and did they use any art form to help them in their everyday life? Did the discipline, did the, you know, repetitiveness, did the technical aspects of it help in their life?

And that’s how it all started.

[Speaker 2] (16:34 – 17:14)
Wow. That reminds me of Autism’s Got Talent. So that started because of my anti-bullying campaign, Give Us a Break.

So a lot of children and adults who had been bullied at school or maybe online or in the workplace, they turned to the performing arts to help them get through their ordeal. And they were teaching themselves how to play the guitar or how to dance or write poetry from watching videos on YouTube. So they started sending them into me and I was just getting so many.

And I thought, wow, things are amazing. So that’s how Autism’s Got Talent was born because I decided I needed to do something with this positivity and amazingness. I don’t even know if that’s a word.

[Speaker 1] (17:14 – 17:17)
Right. I’m going to use it now.

[Speaker 2] (17:19 – 17:32)
So talk to me a little bit more about this progress. Did you actually contact the two little girls, well, probably weren’t little girls now, that were autistic and tell them that how they inspired you?

[Speaker 1] (17:32 – 20:12)
When I finished the film, I reached out. Well, I was just hoping that I had Fran’s email in my email box and it was still working. And it was.

And I sent them the link to the film when it was all finished. And it was interesting when I taught the daughters. And here’s something that I learned that I didn’t know until I started reflecting back is when they first came to the studio, the mom told me that her daughters had Autism and not to worry about it, that they understood that they weren’t going to progress to jazz to as quickly as other kids.

And I’m like, OK, cool. And I didn’t give it any other thought. And I didn’t change my way of teaching.

As a teacher, I think it’s our job to present the material or the lesson in many ways. And that’s like as a dancer, you know, you as a tap dancer, you know, do you go one, two, three? Do you go left, right, left?

Do you go side, back, side? You know, those are three different ways to present pot of array while you actually are physically showing it. So I just did that and I didn’t make any assumptions and didn’t change anything.

But about a year later, the daughters were good enough and learned my warm up. And I always had assistants in my class. So I moved them to the front row because I always had an assistant.

And if I had to change the music, the new kids could follow the people in the front row. And her one daughter started to cry. And I got so nervous and upset that I stepped outside and I asked Fran, I said, oh, my gosh, what did I do wrong?

And she said nothing. She said, you made her day. You moved her to the front row.

So then, of course, I started crying. Then I had to go back and teach. But it’s just that we have to present as teachers.

We shouldn’t treat people any different. We just have to present it and teach. And we do have to adjust.

But this goes for any child. It doesn’t matter if there’s a disability. But everybody is going to hear or see or interpret what you’re doing differently.

And it’s our job to find the best way to teach them.

[Speaker 2] (20:12 – 21:04)
Yeah, I was just going to ask you, when I started teaching autistic children to dance when we very first set up our school for education, I thought, oh, I want to do a dance lesson with the kids. I want to see how, because I’ve never taught autistic children to dance before. And I suppose the first few lessons that I have, and I have shared this before, that they found difficult was their spatial awareness and about where they ended and about where the next person began.

And they almost started off behind me or in front of me or wherever it was that I was teaching them steps. And then they just, all of a sudden, they’d be on top of me because they were finding the spatial awareness side of it quite difficult. And that’s when I used to say things like, put your arms out to the side.

If you’re touching someone, you’re too close. Or put your arms out to the front again. If you’re touching someone, you’re too close.

And that’s how they would think, oh, right. So this is my space. So did you find anything like that that was difficult for you?

[Speaker 1] (21:05 – 22:48)
I didn’t actually find, I didn’t find anything difficult, but again, it is, as a teacher, we also have to be able to adjust to the kids in the class because each class is going to be different. And there are typical kids who don’t pay attention to things like that. And they’re just, you went left, so they went left, but they decided to run instead of skip.

So you just have to, you have to observe and then just figure out what would work best for each student and adjust your lesson plan for them accordingly. And that, you know, I’d have kids after that would ask me questions or the parents and stuff like that. And again, it didn’t matter if they had a disability or not.

It was just them trying to learn the step. And sometimes some people need extra time after class. And again, it didn’t matter.

You know, I dealt with football. I worked, I taught some football players from a high school up there because they wanted them to become more agile and move quick around their feet. So I remember it was on Thursday nights and there were about eight of them that came in and we worked on stretching and stuff like that.

So it was just, it was just me adjusting my lesson plan that would work best for them because they didn’t have a natural rhythm or a desire to become a dancer. But the coach felt maybe if we do this, it might make them better on the football field.

[Speaker 2] (22:48 – 23:33)
I totally get that. I have even heard it in the past of boxers having dance lessons to help them becoming more agile. And one little thing that springs to my mind of my dance lessons with the children was that one day I thought I’m going to take my tap shoes into the classroom.

And then I started tap dancing. They could not believe it. And they kept lifting my feet up to have a lot of what was under our feet and then turning their head upside down.

But they were like totally. And then I took my shoes off and they were like, obviously they were a bit too big for them. But they just wanted to feel what it was like.

And it was just such a lovely, lovely lesson and a lovely moment to remember, if you like. So it was a new experience for them. So I believe that you have founded Bonnie and the Ballet for All Kids Studio.

So what’s that all about?

[Speaker 1] (23:34 – 25:39)
Well, yeah. Once I’m committed to my topic and my way in, I started searching all across America for conservatories and dance studios that offered classes to kids with different disabilities. And some of them just didn’t work for me.

There were some studios that said that they taught kids with autism, and it might work for those parents in that studio. So it’s not putting them down. But they might have taught a 10-minute dance class and then they spent 50 minutes as if it was a jimboree and they would just run around with balls and things like that.

And I thought, that’s not the story I want to tell. So I thought, I’m just going to keep looking. And then I found Bonnie, who is the owner and teacher at a studio called Ballet for All Kids.

And what she does is anyone can take at her studio. So I would say 70%, 70% to 80% of her kids have some type of disability. But then there are also kids in there who are typical.

So when you look in the window, you would never know who’s who. They’re all just taking a 55-minute ballet class. So they’re doing the same pliés that I did, the same tendus where you point your foot.

And I thought, wow, this is the story I need to tell. This is a real art form in how this teacher is teaching it and she’s not lowering her expectations. She’s making everyone come up to what it’s like to take a real dance class.

And then I just wanted to talk to the parents and figure out how did they apply that in their everyday life. And that was just extraordinary that these families let me in their lives for 10 months, every weekend.

[Speaker 2] (25:40 – 25:46)
So talk to me a little bit about the children that you filmed and the different experiences that you had with them.

[Speaker 1] (25:48 – 27:02)
Well, I think what was so great, again, it’s interesting when you reflect back. I found it fascinating that I was exposed to teaching Fran and her two daughters. And again, I think nothing happens.

Everything happens for a reason. And I think because I had that experience, it gave me an insight that not many filmmakers would have because I was a dancer and I was a dance teacher and I happened to teach two kids that had autism. So then to be in this situation, you’re walking into a dance studio, all the kids are curious.

Some would walk up to the camera and look in the lens, but it had nothing to do. I didn’t know if they were neurodivergent or typical. And it didn’t make a difference.

The kids were just curious. What is a tripod? Who are those men with cameras?

What’s that fuzzy thing, the microphone hanging above my head? So again, it was just, they were just kids being kids. And I think that that’s also a very important lesson to remember.

[Speaker 2] (27:03 – 27:06)
I was going to ask, what sort of age groups were you working with?

[Speaker 1] (27:06 – 27:13)
They actually probably, they went from five to I think 22.

[Speaker 2] (27:14 – 27:20)
Okay. And how did you audition to choose finally the children and adults that you would like to take on?

[Speaker 1] (27:21 – 29:28)
Well, I just started filming 11 different kids. It was just different personalities. And I thought who was exciting, that would help tell the story on the screen.

And then because I became so close to them, and then I would go to their houses and interview their parents and what were their parents willing to share? How much were they willing to share? Because again, most of this movie is these kids and families telling their stories.

It’s their words. And they’re saying, this is what it’s like. This is how I feel.

And I wanted to make sure that I got that message across. You know, I was the fly on the wall. But because I became so close with all of them, that I didn’t know what to do.

I mean, I wanted, you know, you saw the film. So there was Liam, who I fell in love with. But, you know, is that me being a male dancer who just wants to support another male dancer?

Or is his story, is the full arc there in the movie? So I had to trust my editor. And since he never met any of the kids in person, his name was Isaiah Camp.

And I said, you know, Isaiah, you’re going to have to narrow this down, because I want them all in the film. And that’s just not possible. You know?

And it was nice to have somebody who had a fresh pair of eyes who could look at the technical side of making a film and say, okay, Liam’s story is great. His parents shared a lot. And they took the, here in the story, you can see how they applied the discipline of repetitiveness.

You know, every day they made him repeat something until he learned that lesson, whatever it was, even if it was just hanging up your backpack when you got back from school. And then after that was accomplished, they moved on to their next lesson. But it was, you know, for them to share those stories and he helped narrow it down.

Or it would have been, it’d have to be a docuseries. It’d go on for months.

[Speaker 2] (29:30 – 31:05)
And I, obviously, I watched the film. It took me a little while to get round to it. But as you know, I’m so busy with everything that I’m doing.

But what I really loved was how you explained Sense 3 issues. And obviously, I’ve spoken earlier as well about clothing and about Angelo cutting out labels and things. But I also loved the joy of the parents when they were watching their kids on stage in the audience.

And it’s just, what I love is how these children just blossom when they’re on the stage. It’s like, when we do Orson Scott Talent, you know, they all arrive and they’ve, you know, we’ve got two days to put a show together and they’re coming from all over the country or from overseas. So people that come from overseas come like three or four days before because of jet lag.

And then the others come on. And then the night before we meet up, what’s called a meet and greet, so they can meet their team and the stage manager, you know, stand on the stage, look in their changing room and everything that’s to do with the theatre. And then when they do the technical, you know, some of them are a little bit like rabbit in headlights.

But then, as I’ve always said, when they’re on stage and everyone’s in the audience, they just step it up like two million percent. And you can see the joy that they get when they get a standing ovation and how they pump out their chests when they walk off stages to say, I’ve done this, I can do it. You know, they’ve been recognised and it’s just like such, such a special moment.

And that’s what I picked up from your film, which I absolutely loved. Do you want to share a little bit more about a few other of the children that performed, any specific moments that you thought were?

[Speaker 1] (31:07 – 34:57)
There was a, there was a teaching, a teachable moment for me. And again, me coming in as a typical person, I also was being educated while I filmed it. And there was, there’s the, this adorable angel by the name of Ailey.

And she’s the one who has a little afro puff since you’ve seen it. And her mom, and after class every week, they would go out for lunch and they always went to the same restaurant. And unfortunately, this film, this scene isn’t in the film because it didn’t move the story forward as we needed it to be.

But what I learned was that her daughter, and I’m saying this because the mom says it in the movie. She said her daughter was like Rain Man because that was a way that she would, she would explain it to people who didn’t know anything because people had seen that movie and could then relate that her daughter was like that. So her daughter needed everything to be repeated and be the same.

So when they went out to lunch, it was a restaurant in the mall and they always had to go in the same driveway and they always had to park on level five. And when we went with them, they had that ramp closed because they were doing construction on it. So they had to go in another entrance and Ailey just wasn’t having it.

So to see how then you, how the mom, you just have to, or the parent, you just have to adjust. You have to come up with alternatives in the split second. And she said, well, how about if I drive around five times and we’ll go past that entrance.

So you can see that it was, it was blocked. And so they came up with a compromise. And then when we got to the restaurant, it was so amazing because the hostess greeted her with balloons because she came every week.

So they gave her her balloons and then they gave her her coloring book in her crayons. And there was a special table that she, she sat at. And it was to see the, the love that came from that, the people that worked at the restaurant and that the chef always brought out her, her meal.

And I remember the mom, she ate like chicken tenders and French fries. And they always ordered two because she would pass them out to everybody that walked by. So she was just so sweet and adorable.

She would hand French fries to people as they walked by. You know, some people would look at like, why is this girl offering me a chicken tender? So the waitress would walk by and say, can I have two?

You know, let me have hers. And then after Ailey was done passing them all out, the chef would bring out another one, which then she would eat. But it was such a teachable moment for me also because I learned that that was called, you know, preservation.

And it’s an involuntary coping mechanism that when they get exacerbated or feel out of place, that’s what they do. And that, it was that simple. It educated me in the, in a five minute time period.

I learned something new that I now can relate to and I now understand in my everyday life, if I see it happen somewhere. And it was moments like that that are just so special because it did actually educate me. And I’m hoping the film does that for other people.

[Speaker 2] (34:58 – 36:10)
Yeah, with reference to the gate being closed, you know, going a certain way, that happened so many times. And I saw families online when we were in lockdown. Has everything changed?

And like, you know, you obviously, I’ve spoken about this before as well. Let’s say, for example, we go to certain parks, my son Angelo and I, and we sort of sit in the same sort of area. But you’d go to parks and either the cafe, for example, might have been closed or the benches and the tables were all sort of cellar taped up.

You weren’t allowed to sit down in certain times. And it just caused so much anxiety and grief. And you were just trying to deal with it as best you possibly could.

But then, you know, obviously this happened for quite some time. So then they would get used to that. And then when lockdown was over, everything went back to normal again.

And then you could see the look, because Angelo’s got very minimal verbal skills. You could see the look on his face and just say, what’s happening? You know, type of thing.

So yet another change. So, you know, that I spoke to a lot of parents that they found those sort of times quite difficult. So, yes.

So your film was released, was it October?

[Speaker 1] (36:11 – 36:12)
Yes, it came out.

[Speaker 2] (36:12 – 36:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (36:13 – 36:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (36:14 – 36:33)
And what sort of feedback have you had so far? And can I ask another question? Is that once you watch the film and now you’re watching it, do you sort of look back and think, oh, I should have filmed that a different way.

I wish I had done that. Because everybody does that type of thing. Or were you just like, no, I’m really happy with the way it’s gone.

Or do you want to do a follow up?

[Speaker 1] (36:35 – 38:23)
I had to go with the flow when we started filming. When we actually first started filming, I brought three cameramen. Again, me wanting to capture these stories as best as possible.

But when that many people walked into the dance studio, it turned into chaos. And I didn’t want, and I wanted, I promised Bonnie from the beginning that I did not want to interrupt or intrude in the dance class because any dance class, you know, the parents are paying for this class and I just wanted to be a fly on the wall. But I totally forgot that there’s going to be kids there who don’t understand what’s going on.

And again, it didn’t matter if we had a disability or not. There was just something new in their life. So I realized within three minutes that I had to cut it down to one camera.

Because that way they could, the class could just adapt to it and we could move more freely and we weren’t intrusive. So I had to change everything right away. So we had to do it a more, as they say in the business, a run and gun type of thing where we have just the one cameraman Ben filming everything so that everybody was comfortable.

And another thing that I did before we actually started filming is I went up for a couple weeks and just sat in every class so that the kids got used to me being there and seeing me. And then they would come over and say hi to me. And then I did the same thing with Ben, my cameraman, the main cameraman.

He came up for two weeks. So people got used to him so that we weren’t intrusive.

[Speaker 2] (38:26 – 38:30)
So what about lighting and that sort of thing? Did you have to change any of that?

[Speaker 1] (38:31 – 40:51)
Not really. We were lucky enough that her studio has a huge wall of windows and we just filmed accordingly with that and framed it using the natural light because I didn’t want to, again, disrupt that. But then when we actually got to the theater that you’ll be able to relate because of your show, I think what made, I don’t want this to sound like a bragging point, but I think that I’m not sure that there are many directors that could have done this film the way I did because I had the experience of being a dance teacher of producing shows.

So I knew, I know what goes on in a green room. I know what goes on in the hallway leading up to the stage. I know what goes on in the wings.

Someone could be in the green room and so excited to go on stage and you put them in the wings and now you have a frightened little kid who doesn’t want to go out on stage. So I knew all the things that could happen. So I hired nine camera people because I needed to capture all those areas and those stories because I didn’t want to miss anything.

There’s that cute little girl, Charlie, with the blonde hair who is just this happy-go-lucky, sweet little girl and she just kept running around. I want to be a dancer! I want to be a dancer!

And then you know the scene in the hallway then all of a sudden they line up in the hallway to go on stage in two minutes and she has a meltdown and doesn’t want to go. And again, the way I approached it is that has nothing to do with the disability. That has to do with a little girl who now is like afraid to walk out on the stage.

But then what happened was, like you said with your show, Autism Got Talent, is once they got out there they had the time of their lives. And to be able to see them come off stage and high-five each other and to hug is priceless. And it just fills your heart.

[Speaker 2] (40:51 – 40:54)
And they always apply for next year’s show.

[Speaker 1] (40:55 – 40:57)
Exactly! Keep coming back!

[Speaker 2] (40:59 – 42:02)
But yeah, I absolutely love Autism Got Talent and I’m obviously very proud of the show and we’ve been doing it for 12 years now. And obviously we have a roadshow so we try and take it to towns. We can’t do too many because it’s just not cost-effective at the minute and especially with everything going on with cost-cutting and all the rest of it.

Yeah, just do what we’ve got to do. There’s a lot of charities, big shout-out to all the charities that are struggling at the minute. Yeah, I know a few that have closed and groups but just got to try and take it one day at a time.

And if you can support a charity, please do because they are a lifeline to many families. We had a little pre-chat beforehand and you were talking to me about Simon Cowell or even Cowell with reference to the show that he was producing and how many times he had to try and get the message across and say, hey look at this show but he didn’t give in. So what was that story, remind me?

[Speaker 1] (42:02 – 43:39)
Yeah, it was a very important story that he always told to us and it influenced me and it helped me get through this process. It’s when he was trying to sell, I think it was called Popstar over there in the UK. When he brought it here, it turned into American Idol.

But when he was pitching the idea, he went to every network and every network turned him down. So he went to 11 different meetings or 10 different meetings and on the 11th meeting, he had already gone to the Fox network which carries it over here and they had turned him down and it was on his way to the airport. He decided, he goes, you know what, I’m going back one more time.

He said, it felt right, I think it should be there. And on his way to the airport, he went back and talked to the head of that studio. And when he went into the guy’s office, his wife just happened to be there, the executive’s wife.

And he said, you know, are you sure? I really think this is the place to go. And the wife said, are you talking about Popstar over in the UK?

And Simon said, well, yes, I am. And she turned to her husband and said, you need to buy this show. It is phenomenal because she was in the UK like a month earlier.

And that was that. But what it did is it made me…

[Speaker 2] (43:39 – 43:40)
I think it’s Pop Idol.

[Speaker 1] (43:41 – 44:31)
It was a Pop Idol, yeah. So it gave me the courage and the determination to keep going on. When people tell you no, you think of where Simon Cowell is now and to think that he got turned down 11 times or 10 times and then finally made it on the 11th time.

So when my film was done and I was looking for a distributor and stuff like that, that story really resonated with me and it kept me going because I thought, well, okay. Well, it’s not right for this distributor, but there’s somebody out there who will get it and will take it on. And that happened.

So it’s just cool that by him sharing that story with his employees helped me when I was on my own journey.

[Speaker 2] (44:32 – 45:21)
There was obviously Simon Cowell and his show, Britain’s Got Talent, is prevalent at the minute because it just started at the weekend and highlighted a young man that was autistic who was a magician. He was amazing, absolutely amazing. And his name was Silians from Ireland.

And he said that he always felt like he was invisible. No one noticed him or anything until he started magic. And he was just like, they were totally gobsmacked and he got a standing ovation.

And the reaction of this young person, young lad, he just cried and it was just, and his mum ran on stage. And I know some of the stuff is like the way they edited, but it was just quite emotional. So I’m pleased that he highlighted a young lad that was autistic.

What was it like working alongside Simon?

[Speaker 1] (45:23 – 47:08)
Well, interesting because a lot of the time he is in the UK and after I left, and it has nothing to do with me, I would like to think it was, but it wasn’t. He actually closed the scripted department because his obligations with British Got Talent and British X Factor keeps him in the UK for nine months. So then he’s only here for the other three.

And he’s a very hands-on person. So when we would get scripts in, or he came up with some brilliant, brilliant ideas and we had scripts written and storyboards made and stuff like that, he needed to be hands-on and he needed to read the script. Well, he’s working 14, 16-hour days on British Got Talent.

So he didn’t have the time. We would send a script and it would take 10 weeks to get notes back because he really wanted to be a part of it and offer his insight into it. And then he had his son and he just realized that he just didn’t have the time and the day to do it.

But he, as a boss, he really is. No matter what they put on TV, he is just a little sweetheart and he is very, very nice and very supportive of his team. I mean, he did some, yeah.

He included everybody in the meetings and he told me to invite the interns to the meetings at his house because he said, you never know where the next idea is gonna come from.

[Speaker 2] (47:08 – 47:20)
True, true. So can I ask, the film Everybody Dants, the documentary, did you show it, first of all, to the people that participated and what was their reaction?

[Speaker 1] (47:21 – 49:07)
Well, we were lucky. Again, when COVID hit, that’s when, prior to COVID hitting, we were going to release the movie, but then COVID hit and I thought, I’m not gonna release it now because everybody was creating these new platforms. You know, we had Netflix and Amazon.

There were the few, but then Paramount, everybody was creating their own platform and I thought my film is gonna get, it’s just gonna fall to the wayside. Nobody’s gonna see it. Well, then film festival started opening up and one of the first film festivals we got into was the Santa Barbara International Film Festival, which is a very highly acclaimed film festival.

Well, the studio was out here in California. So the families actually came up and got to participate and go to a film festival and experience all of that and then see their movie at the same time. So it was, I’m glad I waited until COVID was over to release it or almost over to release it so that the families and the kids could experience that.

It was so, for them to see themselves on a big screen like that. And like you said with your show, the standing ovations afterwards and for the kids to be able, and the parents to be able to experience that and to feel the love, you know, there’s that title up there, Everybody Dance. And then their little adorable faces and some of them were like, Mommy, why are you on the screen?

You’re sitting right in the view. So some of them, the younger kids couldn’t understand. Mommy, you’re sitting next to me, but why is your face so big?

[Speaker 2] (49:09 – 49:12)
How did you feel before you showed it to everybody? Were you nervous?

[Speaker 1] (49:13 – 49:44)
I was a nervous wreck. I actually, not with films, but I have in theater and stuff, I’ve learned that there are times that you get very nervous, but you just don’t show it. And I had taken an extra shirt and a t-shirt to the theater, because I thought if I start to sweat, I don’t want these big circles under my arms.

So the manager of the theater had it in her office in case I needed to change.

[Speaker 2] (49:46 – 50:07)
I remember the first show that I did Autumn’s Got Talent the night before. I couldn’t sleep, I had a headache. I was being sick in the toilet.

People were saying to me, because I had like a few kids say, oh, how are you going to put a show together in two days with 20 autistic people? They’ve never met each other. And all these things were going around in my head thinking, oh, what have I done?

[Speaker 1] (50:08 – 51:05)
Exactly. Why did I do this? And when I got to those moments, that’s when I would text Morgan Spurlock, and the director, and I’d say, I don’t know if I can do this.

And he’d be like, well, you already did it. So you’re past the I don’t think I should do this part because you already, you just got to do that. And like you’ve said a few times here, it’s one day at a time, it’s one step at a time.

And to get those thoughts out of your brain of the big picture, in the beginning you have to look at the big picture, but when you start to become overwhelmed, it’s what is the next thing? Just do the next thing. That little next thing, is it replying to Anna’s email?

Oh, okay, I’m done. Just doing the next little step that gets you to that point where then you’re like, okay, I’m fine now.

[Speaker 2] (51:06 – 51:08)
So what’s next, Ian?

[Speaker 1] (51:09 – 51:35)
Well, this untitled one that I’m doing, because there’s some platforms that are interested in it, I can’t really say much about it, but it’s another documentary. And it’s insight to some people that I am very, very close to and know very, very well. And I just feel that their story should be told.

So yeah, that’s it for now.

[Speaker 2] (51:36 – 51:44)
Okay, so with reference to Everybody Dance, is there anything else that’s happening with that? Or is it being shown in various different countries?

[Speaker 1] (51:45 – 52:30)
Well, it’s, yeah, it’s now we’ve expanded. So it’s available in the UK now. It’s available on Amazon, iTunes, and Google Play there.

It’s available in Canada. And we’re now working, we’ve gotten, I’ve gotten so many lovely, amazing emails, and people on Twitter have reached out. And there’s people in Germany who have reached out to me.

So my distributor is looking into that. It’s different than the UK, I guess, on certain platforms. I don’t understand that side of it.

So we’re looking into that. And then I also got some people from Norway that reached out. So it’s interesting to have to figure out, how do we get it to them?

[Speaker 2] (52:31 – 53:47)
Yeah, sounds good. So yeah, spreading the word, which is all good. Autumn’s Got Talent, we’re hoping, is going to be in the US.

One of my ambassadors, Danny Bowman, she was on the Netflix series Love on the Spectrum. So she said, Anna, how about we do it in, I think she’s from Los Angeles. You know what?

I’ve had a really bad night. I’ve shared with you. So I feel like we’re at three o’clock.

So my brain’s not working on all cylinders at the minute. So yeah, so we decided to do it, obviously, differently than the way we do it here. So we put out the word to say, hey, show us your talent.

And what we’re going to do is then choose between us. We’re going to watch them all on Zoom. And then we’re going to choose the acts that we feel that we would like to share.

Then we’ll share each individual act. And then we’re hoping something special. Can’t say what it is yet, because Danny’s working on it at the moment.

But yeah, just watch this space. So if you’re listening in and you’re from America and you’re around the Los Angeles area, please, please send us in your entry. All the information is on the charity website.

So it’s www.anna Kennedy online.com. And its autism’s got talent in the US. So that’s exciting.

[Speaker 1] (53:49 – 53:54)
And if you don’t mind, please connect me with her. I’ll definitely help you guys out.

[Speaker 2] (53:55 – 54:18)
Oh, thank you. Yes, I will do. So it’s Danny Mason.

She set up her own animation company. And she’s worked with John Travolta’s brother, Joey Travolta. He’s been very supportive of her.

So yeah, she’s also, if you check out the charity website as well, you’ll see that she’s one of my overseas ambassadors. But I will definitely connect you with Danny. You never know.

We might be doing a project together.

[Speaker 1] (54:19 – 54:19)
Exactly.

[Speaker 2] (54:22 – 54:43)
So I’m always chatting to people about wellbeing, looking after ourselves. And especially now within these uncertain times, everything’s constantly changing and evolving. The news is full of doom and gloom a lot of the time.

What do you do to relax, to recharge your batteries? What do you do?

[Speaker 1] (54:45 – 56:44)
Well, I have a few things. Like what I do every morning, and I did it this morning, so I got up even a little earlier for you, is I like to go in the living room and, you know, no TV on. And I just, I sit in the quiet and I have those daily reflection books.

And I always read a daily reflection. I just open the book. And whatever that is, I truly believe that that’s what I was supposed to read.

But I also have learned, and I really use this during the movie, is sometimes you just need to lay down. And I don’t mean because you’re exhausted and tired. I’ve learned to be able to step back.

And sometimes your, it was explained to me once and it resonated is that your brain is like a computer and there’s all these files in there. And sometimes you need to just let those files close and let them sort themselves out and organize. So a lot of times I’ll just lay down on the bed and I don’t fall asleep.

I just kind of zone out for about 15, 20 minutes. And I give my brain the time to organize on its own. I don’t think about anything.

And I just let it prioritize itself for me. And I find that very, very helpful. And I just loved the way that it was explained to me that way that, you know, sometimes the files are delete themselves and sometimes a new one opens.

But to give yourself permission, that’s the word I was looking for, give yourself permission to not do anything because you really are doing something. Your body is doing something. You physically might not feel like you’re doing anything because you’re not moving anything or, you know, actively.

But your body needs that to recharge and get itself organized.

[Speaker 2] (56:45 – 57:37)
I’ve tried to do that, you know, I find it really difficult because my brain is very much on the go all the time and I’ve got so many tabs open. There must be thousands of them. I find it really difficult to relax.

I even went for a back massage once someone paid for me because they said, Anna, you need to go and relax. You’re always on the go. You’re always looking after someone or you’re looking after, you know, your family or you’re awake in the middle of the night because Angelo doesn’t sleep and you’re thinking of some new project.

And I went for a back massage and, you know, when you sort of lay forward and there’s like a hole, you put your head through. So she’s saying, right, you need to relax. I was going, I am relaxed.

She said, you’ve got this ball of tension and it was just like, I just, I couldn’t get off the bed quick enough. I just found it really difficult. I don’t know how to switch off.

Any tips for me?

[Speaker 1] (57:38 – 57:58)
Well, you know what? Book a longer massage because I always book an hour and a half because the first 25 minutes my brain doesn’t shut off. So I understand completely.

And, you know, so an hour massage doesn’t work for me because the same thing, they’re like, dude, relax. And I’m like, I am.

[Speaker 2] (58:00 – 58:10)
I thought it was only me. Oh, so if people are interested and they want to find out more about you and everybody dance, where can they find you?

[Speaker 1] (58:11 – 58:41)
Well, on Instagram, it’s everybodydancedoc, D-O-C for documentary. And on Twitter, it’s everydancedoc, again, D-O-C for documentary, everydancedoc on Twitter and everybodydance on Instagram. And then I have a website with my production company, Dance and Dan Productions, which has the trailer for the movie and where you can rent it online.

[Speaker 2] (58:42 – 59:40)
Brilliant. So you’ve written an article for us and it’s on the charity website under our latest news page. So again, if you didn’t quite catch that or you couldn’t find a pen, you know how it is, just check it out on the latest news page.

There’s a little bit of bio, a little bit of edit going on there written by Dan and links, useful links that you might find. So yeah, please check the film out. As I say, I thought it was beautiful and I really enjoyed it and everyone should watch it.

And as you know, I’m always saying everyone needs to dance. I suppose that’s my way of switching off dancing, but hey, I’m just not me. How can I say it?

I’m not Anna the director, Anna the autism campaigner. I’m just me. I’m actually able to, I’ve just thought about that now.

I’m actually able to switch off and have fun when I have dance. It’s been a pleasure talking to you, Dan. And thank you so much for taking the time out.

Thank you for getting up early to speak to me.

[Speaker 1] (59:41 – 59:46)
Oh, it was well worth it. I admire everything you do. So I’m so glad we finally connected.

[Speaker 2] (59:46 – 59:57)
Oh, thank you. So thank you and thank you to everyone for listening in and please keep going one day at a time. Some days good, some days not so good.

Bye everyone. Thank you.