Ben Pearson 260421

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 4:44) Hello, this is Anna Kennedy. We're talking all things autism and we're a radio station that promotes mental health and well-being. So, I've been busy as always since the last time I joined you on women's radio station and we are working towards our dance day which we're going to be celebrating 10 years. I can't believe it's been 10 years. So, it's basically step in the right direction, autism dance day and everybody gets their dancing shoes on and everybody dances on the last Friday. It usually spills over to the weekend. So, Kristina Rianoff who's one of the people that used to be on Strictly and now has her own yoga centre. She is going to be doing some dance steps and then people can either follow or you can just do your own thing. So, it's always such a fun thing to do. People send in their videos and also send in their photographs. Also, we were part of a book launch which is one of my charity ambassadors, Aston. So, Aston Avery. His mum has written a book and she's been writing it over the lockdown period and what happened was it was launched last week and it's called From a Tier to Here, Autism a Family's Journey by Dawn Avery. So, I'll just read you a little bit from the back and this book was written originally as a form of therapy. She was struggling as Aston was growing up and I found myself being lost in poetry. I decided to note down my feelings and this book evolved. Our family had a journey many now experienced back then. Autism was not so understood. I often felt alone and confused at the differences we had faced. I decided to piece the book together. I hope it would give understanding. I wanted to give an insight into the lifestyle of a family living on an autism pathway. I also wanted to empathise that through the journey was challenging. I was blessed with meeting so many inspirational people who would not be who we are today without others input, without the determination to never give in and without each of us having the compassion to make a difference. So, if you're interested in the book, you can actually buy it from the charity website and I'm pleased to say that every single book sale that is actually promoted on the charity website, all of the funds go to the charity. So, thank you Dawn for that and it's been very well received so far and it was launched on Gateway Radio. Another book I just wanted to share with you is called Mickeypedia and it's the A to Z of an autistic servant and Mickey was one of our Autism Hero Awards winners. He was autistic long before it became acceptable having autism in the 70s and the 80s. He was a remarkably different prospect of growing up amidst today's neurodiverse tribes. Aged at just 12 he was permanently excluded from schools. 30-odd years later he now works as a researcher highlighting the plight of a group still often marginalised and understood by the mainstream. Along the way he picked up 5 degrees, several book publishing deals and a handful of accolades from the burgeoning autistic community. All of this took place against the backdrop of lurid 80s London where he encountered some of the best and the worst, the city's unsanitized pre-politically correct underbelly hat to offer. This book is available on Amazon, it's called Mickeypedia, M-I-C-K-E-Y and again the funds from the book go to the charity. So, thank you Mickey for that, I really really appreciate it. We do keep updating our charity website and if you check on the resources page there's lots of new activity going on there and also through our latest news and we also just released our quarterly newsletter which you can receive free so you just need to basically subscribe and just an update on my petition, almost 9200 signatures so please keep sharing it for me and keep signing who will look after my sons when I'm no longer around, a question that's at the back of the minds of many many parents, unpaid carers that are looking after their children or autistic adults at home. So my guest today is Ben, Ben Pearson, he's founder of Big Clothing For You and up there and he's a serial entrepreneur with a difference. Diagnosed with autism Ben has used his platform to create inclusive clothing that strives for change from clothing in size to excel to his Harvey's Law collection in collaboration with Harvey Price as one of our ambassadors. So welcome Ben, welcome to women's radio station talking all things autism. [Speaker 1] (4:45 - 4:47) Oh it's a pleasure to be here, thank you for having me Anna. [Speaker 2] (4:48 - 4:54) Oh thank you so much, so Ben for our listeners who is Ben, where are you from, where were you born? [Speaker 1] (4:55 - 5:16) I was born in Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire just a stone's throw from the Humber Bridge where I'm currently residing. Yeah I've been travelled around a lot around the country and I've sort of been in social care and moved around so I've seen a lot of the country but my roots have always come from you know North Lincolnshire. [Speaker 2] (5:17 - 5:27) Okay thank you, so you've been diagnosed with autism because so if you don't mind can you talk a little bit about your diagnosis, I understand you were diagnosed at age seven. [Speaker 1] (5:28 - 6:18) I was indeed yes and I think even back at sort of the age of seven it was really always difficult to communicate why I was behaving in such an unruly way or that's how it's always perceived. I was just a naughty young person and you know always labelled I've got some mental health issue and I really don't see it that way personally. I just feel that the way that my mind and my thoughts are channeled are just slightly different to you know your stereotypical person and this big stigma about you know I'm different to somebody else, I've got autism. I think there's just too much emphasis paid on that and not enough emphasis on how do you actually help this individual you know communicate and get on in in everyday life. [Speaker 2] (6:18 - 6:27) So can you remember were you told fairly early on that you had a diagnosis of autism when did you first find out and how did you feel about it? [Speaker 1] (6:28 - 7:15) Yeah so my mum was a school teacher in sort of main school for infants and she picked up on something from an early age that I just wasn't behaving like anybody else. I know sometimes kids at home behave differently to what they do at school but I think she had a fairly good understanding that something wasn't right. I was extreme you know reacting very extremely to noise and smell and things that were that probably you know they wouldn't normally get such a strong reaction. So this would this actually came from when I was maybe six months old you know a number of people said something wasn't quite right. Are you there Ben? Yeah I'm here Anna can you hear me? [Speaker 2] (7:15 - 7:38) Yeah I can hear you sorry here's just went a bit said there. So you're talking about that when you were younger so for parents that might be listening in that they might think their son or their daughter may have an autism diagnosis could you explain a little about maybe some of your behaviours or did you have any sensory issues you talked about smell and noise? [Speaker 1] (7:39 - 9:15) Yeah absolutely so when they spotted something wasn't right from about six months to one years old had very unusual interest in objects you know routine issues so if my mum was to come home half an hour late my anxiety level just go through the roof I you know I would obviously you know not sort of six months old but throughout the years these things were detected and got more extreme more noticeable social interaction I couldn't couldn't really understand people's feelings and I was constantly talking about specific things I'd get extremely obsessed with one thing or like for example my teddy I couldn't go anywhere without you know a cuddly toy it had to be that specific cuddly toy if anyone else was to touch it I would just you know go absolutely bonkers issue sleeping due to anxiety wondering if what's going to happen the next day my anxiety levels I'd be avoiding a lot of eye contact I could never and still now you know I struggle with you know keeping a sort of a direct communication with somebody very sensitive as I touch my very sensitive to smell and noise so anyone's coming in a door or any sort of vibrations or you know light changes in light someone just put the switch on and the room would quickly become you know lit up it would create a lot of sort of internal [Speaker 2] (9:15 - 9:20) problems in my head okay and what was it like at school for you if you don't mind me asking [Speaker 1] (9:21 - 10:22) yeah absolutely so I think that was really where things were very very very difficult from a young age because I would get bullied so people would see me as sort of the classroom clown if you know as you were and it was just really difficult to get anybody to understand me so even I had like a key worker and they would sit with me but they weren't really trained or had enough understanding of autism so they didn't really give me the due care and attention or even the understanding that somebody needs for somebody with autism to you know to get on and help them to move forward it was about 10 when I was moved into care homes because my mom couldn't cope with me at home nor could the school do anything with me so they moved me into a specialist you know social care system you don't mind me saying [Speaker 2] (10:22 - 10:35) fairly maybe challenging or be at the school to say they couldn't meet your needs and be a mom so what sort of things were you finding difficult to deal with yeah so I'd have sort of rages and I [Speaker 1] (10:35 - 11:14) would think things were funny so I think I struggled with understanding other people's emotions for example if I was to if somebody was to slam a door I would get up and start throwing the tables around the room and everybody would be laughing at me but actually I think a lot of the kids were just joining in with me and probably somewhat scared of me and fearful of what was going on but I just thought they were they were sort of egging me on and I got worse and but what I didn't realize at such a young age was they were actually sort of taking the mickey out at me and they came clear as sort of months went on yeah so you went to the care [Speaker 2] (11:14 - 11:20) home so how can you remember that can you remember that and how old were you yeah so I [Speaker 1] (11:20 - 13:45) was 10 when I was first moved into a transitional unit so it's like an assessment unit right again I feels very wrong because it was just with it was with people that had alcohol issues it was a good it was from people between the ages of 10 and 18 um so how did you fall at 10? yeah yeah I know um from some of the um um well commonly um you know these people referred to from sort of coming from um sort of areas of poverty housing estates and this kind of thing that's how they were referred to and their mums were typically mom and dad parents would typically be taking drugs so they were very much familiar with it and then obviously the the older people in these you know in this assessment unit would encourage them to take it or almost um make you know put them under GRS to you know to do these things so it it wasn't really a great center to be but that that's how it started and then they nobody assessed it as autism they just again oh okay I'd been diagnosed with it but because I've been diagnosed with that and ADHD um I I still don't think that they fully understood how um how I was functioning in my mind okay I how long were you in there um probably about four to six weeks okay it was a relatively short space of time but then the assessment wasn't really carried out um as thoroughly as I thought it should have been and it certainly didn't have any specialists and then I was uh you know moved into a well I was actually moved into a foster home but again the foster family were not uh trained to deal with people with autism so when I used to have a rage and basically trashed the house you know throw the tv and smash the doors and there was no limit to what I would do when I was in this in this you know fixation with something I couldn't it wasn't going my way how it should be in my mind or my routine was broken it didn't take a lot um and you know I've really you know in hindsight I really feel for these people but for the social care to have even put me in that position or all those foster carers I think [Speaker 2] (13:45 - 13:56) was you know quite atrocious really yeah it sounds like they didn't realize um didn't well the right support wasn't put in place it was just as clear as that really so how long were you in a [Speaker 1] (13:56 - 15:10) foster care home um so um I hesitate a little bit because I've been moved around probably 50 or 60 different units um so it's quite hard to actually pinpoint but probably only several weeks um I remember and I was involved in drugs and they found a stash of drugs in the garden so um they they quickly sort of escorted me from from the house um but that that was that I've always been quite switched on uh and so that was in a roundabout way a bit of a strategic move because I never felt safe in that house and I always felt very vulnerable yeah high levels of anxiety and I'm for me to be restrained or to be put into a dark place actually used to bring me comfort because I used to feel safe uh rather than all these worries around me of uncertainty it used to bring me an element of uh security and being able to predict you know the the future so for me the the whole um you know that the whole setup of sort of stashing drugs in the garden was really to make the social services do do something because while they're getting paid while the foster carers were getting paid until it got so extreme you know for me just seemed like a commercial gain [Speaker 2] (15:11 - 15:33) so for 50 60 place I just can't even imagine how you must have been feeling from being shared from it's just like mind blowing for me so how long did that go on for and what what do you think what I think do you think the effect was on you yes it went on for about seven years um wow [Speaker 1] (15:33 - 16:03) so it it was uh mentally challenging I think that some of the traits of autism actually got me through it so I got something in my head where I was going to be doing this and seeing something through and I wasn't going to let the system take over my mental health or once I started to channel my way and once I got the focus and drive uh the autism was actually a bit of a lifesaver but to get to that state of mind took quite a lot of willpower so when did you finally [Speaker 2] (16:04 - 16:09) um was there a place that you feel that you settled what um what age was that and what [Speaker 1] (16:09 - 16:52) was the change um I don't think I ever really felt secure settled because I was with some very vulnerable um young people so it was very unpredictable even up to the last place I was in it wasn't unheard of for a young person to come running along a corridor with a you know machete or you know this and pulling pulling people's hair out of their their skin and you know some very gory scenes that I've witnessed and I think that the only comfort that I had was age and maturity so as I started to reach 16 or 17 I started to feel more established in my mind okay I remember [Speaker 2] (16:52 - 18:26) I'd never been to I've shared this a couple of times before that I'd never ever been to a mental health unit and I visited which was quite a few years ago and it was awful for this I just thought how are people supposed to get better in these places and again like you were sharing you know lots of different um individuals that were mixed together so whether they had drug related issues or alcohol related issues or um autistic and they were just all mixed together and I remember my first visit to this place there was a chat had a steel barn he was scraping it against the wall as he was walking in and then there was food splattered up the wall and and I had it this place has changed now but I haven't been in there they actually demolished the original place that I went to and they built a new center but it was just such an awful place I thought it just really had an impact on me and um I just like it was just it went on for quite a few weeks and there was a gentleman that was in there we were trying to help him get out because he'd been sectioned and we finally did and we opened a home um a residential home and a vocational college where actually my son goes now Angelo he's been there for six seven years now but he just had a real left a real impression on me and I just thought how are people supposed to get better in these places and I'm sure there are units where you know people have got great stuff and but this particular one that I was in it just it was awful so for you to live it sounds like you lived that experience for quite a number of years so um so how long was [Speaker 1] (18:26 - 19:15) that did you say till you were about 17 or 18 yeah well when I was 16 um they tried to section me um just picking up on your point there about yeah um yeah they tried to section me um but I think the thing is I was always in sort of like a secure well from the age of about 14 the the places were sort of semi-secure so they were a bit like a sort of an open prison if you like and a lot you know they never used to have glass in the windows as always sort of plastic and that there was never a case of um a sense of security or being loved or nurtured or trying to work with me it was always about just trying to prevent me assaulting anybody or somebody assaulting me there was never really nobody was proactive everyone was just constantly reactive to behavior [Speaker 2] (19:15 - 19:27) I think that's really where this went wrong so when when did you try to look for the right words here when did you settle when did you feel that you were safe and you were secure [Speaker 1] (19:27 - 20:02) how old were you um I was about 18 so um I think I was about 17 when there was a gap in the care system and I became a care leaver um I actually had some legal support around me and managed to find um like a loophole in the system where I managed to escape and um because a long story short I was sort of sleeping rough for about six months and um but that although I had nothing I sort of had nothing to lose and that for me that was the the sense of freedom that that was the [Speaker 2] (20:02 - 20:08) happiest one of the happiest times I've ever had um what about um you don't mind me asking what [Speaker 1] (20:08 - 20:51) about your mum did you ever make contact back with her after quite a long time I obviously had quite a lot of resentment but I do like try and have empathy and understand where people are coming from and um you know it took me a long time but I've forgiven her for for everything because ultimately I don't believe it was her fault I believe it was sort of circumstantial and yeah the system and she never had you know let's face it she never had training of how to deal with someone with autism and she had her own problems you know and you know she sort of got you know divorced four or five times and she had her own challenges that she didn't really I don't think we ever ever really sort of understood me or how to work with me [Speaker 2] (20:51 - 20:59) okay um so you were 18 so let's talk about from 18 onwards so tell me um what happened [Speaker 1] (20:59 - 22:07) if you don't mind no no not at all um so when I was 18 um I start yeah I was about sort of 17 and when I was homeless I started going on uh dog socialization work so I I've always found that I can interact with animals much better than I can in humans my son's there yeah um and I still do today um so I I think that I've always had a connection with dogs so I thought well what am I going to do so I went down to a job center and I picked up the other pages and I rang around some dog trainers and sort of felt a natural bond with a guy called he was running some socialization walks for for dogs to help their owners interact with dogs who understand sort of build those bridges um so start going on the socialization walk building the relationship with Bill um and then when I was about I think I was about 18 19 um I met my girlfriend Julia who I'm still with today and um I went to the room from her oh wow okay [Speaker 2] (22:07 - 22:47) so a positive ending there so um talk to me about I was just reading here that when he said said I look at what I wish to overcome and then I plan out how I'm going to deal with it so it's still the unknown and then and try and make that change as stress-free as possible so talk to me about that can you talk to me about something tangible that's happened where this this this this um you know a plan that you've basically wanted to overcome and then you think about how are you going to deal with it because I'm thinking there's so many people out there that are probably thinking you know especially now during these difficult times um that you might be able to give some [Speaker 1] (22:47 - 24:36) advice or tips because people love advice and tips yeah absolutely so um I've always struggled with pain and I think I've always struggled with routine right okay so it's one I've been working on for years and I'm still working on it today um so um for a real life example my girlfriend um would would say come home from work at five o'clock and we prepare tea and then if you got stuck in traffic it would be sort of like half as five six o'clock and my routine would change so it would go to my head and I would really struggle and I'd get very one track minded I couldn't really focus on anything else or start to think rationally or anything like that it would just my mind would just blow up so what I've started to do is train myself to overcome that breakage in routine so reassure myself that it's okay and then put in prevention measures so what is the actual thing what what is it about making sure and working backwards so for me it's making sure I eat on time so my blood pressure levels don't drop making sure that I've got that fuel inside me to start thinking rationally so what I do is I think well I can be in control of myself I can't be in control of my surroundings so if my routine breaks I've still got the fundamentals which are I'm still going to eat at half as five I'm still going to do this so the only thing that's broken is my partner Julia not arriving on time and then I can look at how I mitigate that concern so I can go right I can text or I can try and ring her um and I can get reassured she's okay but everything else in my life is still okay so I think it's about gaining perspective so it's about pre-planning that route that changing routine and then when it actually occurs I can put [Speaker 2] (24:36 - 24:42) all those things into place okay that sounds good so that's a good tip there for anyone listening [Speaker 1] (24:42 - 25:46) in so um thank you for that Ben I think another example yeah um I still have it today so it's a really good one um I struggle with meeting people for the first time right and I even struggle with meeting people I've met before okay and um I build up in my mind um different scenarios and and how I get very uncomfortable and I worry about sort of stuttering or not knowing what to say or saying the wrong thing and then not being able to get out of it and like the common trait of mine is overthinking something through anxiety so it's becomes a massive deal so just going to Tesco for example I'm worried about bumping into a friend or a peer you know that I've not seen for six months and they're going to start asking me oh what have you been doing with your life and I'm going to think well how am I going to respond to that or am I going to start stuttering I'm going to not know what to say right and what I do is I reassure myself well I was okay last time and if you know and I start to break it down um so I'm prepared for for that scenario [Speaker 2] (25:48 - 26:23) okay I've got you I've got you yeah so um I wanted to ask you because of everything that you've been through throughout your life um have you had any counseling so that you can unpack everything and sort of you know a safe place where you can talk about it because I know a lot of people put things to the back of their minds I know a lot of people on the spectrum that don't like counseling they don't want to go to counseling so so what what what what have you had any counseling and are you currently going through counts I don't want to hear you know about obviously what you're doing but it's just I just wondered what your thoughts were on it because of everything that you've been through yeah I absolutely love counseling [Speaker 1] (26:23 - 26:44) it's one that is check it's a life changer it really is it was one of the hardest things to get into and I even my mind used to play tricks on me you know certainly before you session oh what's the point I'm not going to feel any better than I do now being better but each time I'd go why am I not going more often and it yeah it I would recommend it to anybody but it's got to be [Speaker 2] (26:44 - 26:52) the right person it's just going to say how do you know it's going to be the right person what sort of counselor would you recommend so how would you go about looking for a counselor [Speaker 1] (26:53 - 27:50) yeah so on ideally getting somebody who's accredited you know sort of certified for working with autistic people recommendations is always a good one looking at fine reviews and I've always found like an initial consultation is a good one just going and sitting down for half an hour an hour and thinking what am I wanting to achieve out of this and then write down some some you know three four five points ask them and then see if it's benefited you and see if you like their way of working I've always found personal center counseling very good as well because then you're not what you know what just to sort of try and explain how I see that so while they're giving their thoughts or being biased or um that they they help you to come to your own conclusion so they will repeat back to you what you've just said and get you to do the thinking so you come to your own conclusion rather than you know telling you you should live [Speaker 2] (27:50 - 27:56) your life like this or that okay um have you ever thought of writing a book about your experiences [Speaker 1] (27:58 - 28:11) yeah it's something I'd love to do um I think it's just about how I would I suppose it's like anything you know how to get to the top of the mountain but how I would get there and get it in enough people's hands I think that's always a challenge yeah and also getting if you can't if [Speaker 2] (28:11 - 29:28) you don't want to write it yourself obviously you can get somebody to write it for you because I speaking to um somebody that you know who's um had it very um oh how can I say you know very very troubled past and um she's in the process of writing a book and she spoke to various different ghost writers and now she's going through the process of um writing the book with the ghost writer and she gives herself a time limit she wanted it all to be done within a space of time because some of these things can go on forever but she wanted it to be done within six months and it's um yeah she said it's going really well at the moment and um yeah I'm looking forward to seeing how um you know how it's going to progress and uh she's got a good publisher as well and then obviously you can do self-publishing which is what um Dawn has done with the one of my charity champions so she launched it last week and she wrote the book right through lockdown started writing it when her son was about six then left it and then because of lockdown she got back into it and um she's written a book and now um obviously it's been published and it's doing quite well so yeah there's various different ways of doing it and I think a lot of people say they find it quite therapeutic as well so um I think I think you're probably a best seller so um you just need to get the right person to help you in the right publishing company [Speaker 1] (29:28 - 29:48) on that note Anna I've always found writing things down really good again I go into counseling sometimes it's a struggle or going to the gym the first steps are always a struggle but I've found when I'm when I'm struggling with something to write it down and then read it back or get someone else's perspective has always really helped me okay what [Speaker 2] (29:48 - 30:03) about books have you read any books um on autism or um are there any websites that you look at there's sort of you know if you might be dealing with something that might be difficult that you might do a bit of research or you might look it up yeah absolutely so I'd always refer to [Speaker 1] (30:03 - 30:24) your website obviously Anna Kennedy online oh thank you the support and advice on there I've actually found it you know very useful um yeah having a good look around um so um about books yeah um so um isn't there a campaign for change give us a break [Speaker 2] (30:24 - 32:01) could you explain a bit about that Anna yeah yeah so um give us a break is our um anti-bullying campaign so um with reference to people being bullied um and it started oh quite a few years ago and it was um it was one of my ambassadors um who's now uh he's quite young at the time when we first started it and uh we it was picked up by the NSPCC because at that time there was nothing on the their website about autism and then we did um a video with this young man um James and he was also on Britain's Got Talent and he was um went down to the last uh seven finalists and he was bullied at school because he liked dance he was a twin um and his brother is now um fantastic at karate and um artwork and his eldest brother now believes that university doing artwork so um and they're all three of them are on the spectrum so give us a break um was the anti-bullying campaign and then from then on it uh sort of spiraled into autism's got talent because a lot of the um children and adults or parents that were writing into me about their bullying were saying they were turning to the performing arts to help them get through their ordeal so um that's what give us a break is about and also Harvey is um one of our anti-bullying ambassadors and i understand that you have created a teacher which i've got one off so i know you have um so talk to me a little bit about um how did you meet Harvey and Katie so what was the story behind that and have you been bullied in the past yeah so um cake was basically [Speaker 1] (32:01 - 32:11) struggling hello ben we've lost you in time to explain that i had autism and oh can you hear [Speaker 2] (32:11 - 32:16) me okay yeah you just went totally off there so sorry could you just start that again please [Speaker 1] (32:16 - 33:05) yeah yeah um so um um heart um kate was struggling to find fashionable clothing for Harvey so um she and she posted a post online saying you know does anyone does anyone uh can they advise where to get fashionable trendy clothing for for the bigger guy Harvey's needing some so i approached her and explained that you know i've got autism and where i've come from my background and she really sort of you know um took on board what i was saying and um and then we talked about how we could help with spread awareness for the online trolls and um we could bring out a collection to promote it and that's then that's where you came in she was explaining about uh Anna Kennedy online was saying well could we put a donation so we've now got a donation on the checkout to [Speaker 2] (33:05 - 33:32) donate to uh you know Anna Kennedy online oh brilliant thank you so um yeah um the clothing is great because obviously you kindly um sent me a couple of bits for Angelo and obviously he's been wearing it but i i understand that um you used to be a lot bigger if you don't mind me saying you lost a lot of weight and i was just wondering how did you do that i was speaking to um a father and son who did it together um so i was just wondering how how did you achieve to lose weight [Speaker 1] (33:32 - 36:41) and what's your relationship like with food yeah um my relationship with food is very good but not in a healthy way so um i i guess i i always um eat to comfort my anxiety which uh in turn puts on weight because i'm consuming a lot more calories and i and then i should be uh when i was in some very low points in social care i rapidly approach sort of 30 stone you know putting on like a stone a month um just basically um just eating copy copy of those amounts of food um and then i guess as as my life started to turn on well to start with i didn't have the money to to sort of fuel that when i was homeless but it gave me motivation and as i started to naturally lose weight from not being able to afford it be more active i started to see the benefits and my mental health and just feeling more uh more alive basically so um then i started to understand nutrition and what my body should actually be um consuming the right amounts of carbohydrates proteins and so forth and um i've done a lot done sort of a lot of research online and then i got the right amount of calories for my weight at the time and then just slowly reduced it down um and you know lost the weight so how much did you lose um i lost i think it was about 16 stone i got down to yeah i got down to about 14 stone wow and i did that in quite a short space of time again everything that i do is very extreme and it's not always to the benefit of of my my health i um yeah i get my mindset on something i just go for it and it's not always in the most measured way i just get so obsessed okay and do you go to the gym because you look like you do i do i do um and one of the things i've always found is um having autism i'm always very careful who i surround myself with because i mirror people so um i always find that i need to be surrounded by people that i want to aspire to so because i copy people basically i need to make sure that the people that are around me are a positive influence so that's probably one of my biggest things in life is to always have a reality check you know am i actually communicating with people that are you know broadening my horizons helping me uh you know become become better and that's one of my ways of relaxing actually so last night i was watching um anthony joshua on the jonathan ross show so i've trained with aj a couple of times and he's a very um uh you know very inspirational guy and you know world heavyweight boxer and that's one of my ways to unwind and i always feel by watching people that i i want to aspire to in my mind it's sort of a psychological thing i feel i feel like uh you know uh sort of more where i want to be yeah have you ever had problems with [Speaker 2] (36:41 - 37:07) textures because i speak to quite a few um families and autistic adults that they have problems with food textures you know um like say for example my son angelo he likes to feel the food the texture of the food before he puts it in his mouth um the softness he doesn't like um how can i say like a chip sometimes can get a little bit harder at each end so he flicks the both ends before he'll put it in his mouth so i was just wondering have you ever had any problems [Speaker 1] (37:07 - 37:36) with textures of food um i wouldn't say textures i've had things that i really object to so crisp so i used to really struggle with anyone eating crisps around me and sort of the sensation of them and the smell and um it's something that um i even thought was strange myself and you know thinking yeah don't be so silly but you know not denying reality um i used to even struggle sitting around people eating them so um i have had issues with food certainly okay [Speaker 2] (37:37 - 37:57) so um can i ask you now looking back so you're 28 what do you feel the misconceptions are around autism and throughout your life how do you if you could have a magic wand and you could go back what what would you have liked to have happened within your life and what do you think the misconceptions [Speaker 1] (37:57 - 38:55) are yeah so i think one of the things is getting angry or frustrated um i think that a lot of people can say you know you're bullying someone else or you're very aggressive um and i don't think it's it's relatable or comparable to your stereotypical person that gets you know um maybe drunk and starts getting aggressive and you know someone with autism there's much more deep underlining reasons for that so they get misjudged or labeled um you know like i was so i think trying to um but that was one of the things that i think people should try and have more empathy with when someone starts kicking off in tesco for example laying on the floor kicking and screaming they have to understand that that person hasn't been blessed with so many you know with with the ability not to do that it's not because they want to do it it's just the way they are [Speaker 2] (38:55 - 39:12) wired okay can you can you remember what it is that triggers for you and how do you help yourself calm down what have you got strategies that you put in place now so you're not like that if you like um that you're not you know in that place that you used to be [Speaker 1] (39:14 - 40:24) yeah um so um i actually had a scenario this morning where um my partner and i we worked together and she um basically said she was doing something for the good of the business and i said i don't think you are um and she said well should we just move on and i got so obsessed with it that basically i couldn't move on and she as much as she asked me to well i accept it it's not good for the business so i just move on and i wanted to give every fine detail around it and i wanted to finish my sentence which she basically wasn't allowing me to and therefore i had to finish my sentence i had to say everything that i wanted to say about it otherwise i couldn't i had to get it all out in the end i well what so today i just got up and walked out and went and had 10 minutes and did what counseling has helped me to understand what i need to do um count to 10 and so forth um but before that that wouldn't have happened before i'd have basically just lost complete control and you know smashed up everything around me so i guess that's that's one of the examples okay thank you for that [Speaker 2] (40:24 - 40:59) so talk to me about setting up your business what made you think right i want to set up a business and what were the challenges for you as a person on the autism spectrum because i'd imagine if you're setting up your own business some i know quite a few people on the spectrum who do it's also quite it can be quite stressful some people because then you're in charge of everything and you are responsible for everything that's going to happen so if it goes downhill it's your you know it's your responsibility and you've got people on board that you know that you recruit so talk to me about how you said right i'm going to set up this business and how was the process for [Speaker 1] (40:59 - 42:00) you yeah so i think the passion is what's always um being the key driver behind it i think if i didn't have the passion i don't think i could do it uh it's not really light work for me because i love doing what i do that keeps me going it all stems from um not being penalized from being different and that's the thing with autism i always felt penalized and misjudged labeled and then when i got overweight again i had the same thing as being autistic you know you're fat and all this kind of thing and you know people just not being very nice not certainly not being kind and i just thought um well basically i came to get clothing and really struggled and thought why can everyone else find clothing easily and i can't well there must be something i can do about it and that's how big clothing started was to try and allow people that are a different shape or size to have the same ability to buy clothing as your normal person so how did you come up with [Speaker 2] (42:00 - 42:05) the designs how many people are on board when you first started yes so when we first started [Speaker 1] (42:05 - 42:24) there was just me and my girlfriend working from a bedroom making night and day and then we recruited sort of like the jack of all trades robin he was fantastic he you know he basically would just muck in and do anything when when we first started some days we didn't even have a single [Speaker 2] (42:24 - 42:38) parcel going in so how excited yeah when you first saw your first item of clothes and being designed and actually holding it in your hands and you were excited yeah absolutely um it was [Speaker 1] (42:38 - 43:01) sort of like reinventing the wheel i was absolutely ecstatic yeah it was yeah it was fantastic um i think the nice thing is even today i still get those moments where i i still feel the same as i did then so it's been a it's been a fantastic brilliant so if someone's thinking i'm gonna [Speaker 2] (43:01 - 43:06) say i'd like to set up my business what tips would you give them what do they need to look out for [Speaker 1] (43:06 - 45:12) what are the you know the loopholes yeah so i think having a good um business um i would say that the number one thing is so i've learned over the years so you know it's great you know you can have loads of revenue but if you've not got control over the cash then you can soon find yourself in problems so i would say that as much as you know one wants to sort of run before they can walk or you know very ambitious and i think just taking steady steps and being very strategic and you know the answers don't always come overnight so even if you think oh yeah i know 100 the answer to this just sit back and think i'll give it a few days i mean i still feel the same we'll go with it but it's amazing how time can change your perspective so i think once you've got those basic things in place and and you've got a plan then um just keep pushing forward and i think like any anything you know anything that's worthwhile is going to have setback and isn't going to be easy so i think just being persistent and just as soon as you can basically invest in people because that's what a business is about i think that investing people with specific skill sets um and you know and hopefully it should should take off so how many people have you got working for you now fen oh yeah we currently well we've currently got a bit of a recruitment drive but as we stand we've got about 21 okay and is it all based in the uk it is yeah yeah we yeah we ship all over the world but um our staff it's one of the things actually with covid and which has been really interesting so prior to covid we normally um just had people that could come and be in the office but um we found that everyone working remotely uh actually because we're an online store worked quite well so we started recruiting people from manchester lester peter bro and what we found is that because we're not um because we can recruit people from remote places we can actually target people that have worked for competitors um that can bring an [Speaker 2] (45:12 - 45:40) even better insight into our company okay that sounds good so you've also created another brand called up there and it's just it's you saying that it's a stock brand that represents everyone um so can you talk to me a little bit about that and also what i want to do is share some of the links that we're talking about so that if people are interested in looking at your website um we can share that and also if they might like to follow you on social media so first of all talk to me about up there and then we'll share some of the links [Speaker 1] (45:41 - 47:41) yeah so up there came so when i first started up there um being very humble you know just sitting there going through a big word bank and thinking what am i going to name this company i want my own label i want my own brand i just thought well what what is it what am i want what message am i wanting to portray and i thought well the message is to tell people that have told me i can't do something because i've got autism you know that it can be done so i thought up there and then i thought up there to the naysayers yes got it right up there so then i went down the trademark room checked it wasn't infringing on any other people's rights and so forth and found that we're all clear all good to go so um up there to the naysayers and then we created a website um up there dot code at uk okay the human there so um u p t h e i r dot code and we can also be found on facebook and instagram if you type in up there clothing okay that's great so where do you see yourself in about 10 years time um in 10 years time i would like to have disconnected with giving something back so the challenge that i've faced i'm still not convinced that those those things that i feel should have happened are i believe they're still happening now um so i would like to be able to um have this have the company running more for itself and be able to have more time for me to help share my experience with other people and and go in and see how i think um things should be done differently to help with autism yeah have you got any employees that are autistic um currently we don't um it is something that we are actually looking at doing to try and um uh yet to try and support yeah so create opportunities because [Speaker 2] (47:41 - 48:29) that's one thing um i'm just become an ambassador for includeability which is going to be a new employment um agency that um basically you're going to get more for people who've got disability so their website's going live in may so if people want to check it out um it's called includeability and that will be happening in may so i'm hoping that um they're going to be able to support um a lot of people who have got a disability into employment so i'm quite excited about that um so i just want to share that if people are interested in looking on your site so you have got the up there which you've just shared the link for that which is up there dot co dot uk and then what was the other site called that you wanted to that you also sell [Speaker 1] (48:29 - 48:35) clothing yes we have big clothing with the number four and let's use a big clothing dot coding uk [Speaker 2] (48:35 - 51:02) so that that stops from two xl to eight xl okay that's great and um i just also wanted to remind people about um the autism hero awards so that will be happening hopefully fingers crossed in november so if you'd like to nominate somebody who either is autistic or is a carer or is a professional that goes the extra mile for people within the autism community please send in your nominations the nominations date is the first week of september that's when it closes and then the actual event itself will be happening in november at the chelsea harbor hotel so we will be choosing seven judges to um have the dilemma of choosing three finalists for each category there are 12 categories in total so check out um it's on the charity website but also on the autism heroes website which is www.autismheroawards.com um also i just want to remind you again about bone anxious clothing which ben has collaborated with as well so they are selling clothing that has label free and specifically for people who have a disability we've also just launched a new range called dance like no one's watching be kind so if you want to check um the clothing out it's www.boneanxious.co.uk and the last collaboration that i have is with mood bears and mood bears now are going into hospitals they're going out to speech and language therapists occupational therapists and also to families at home lots of different emotions on the bears and now they've just launched a mini bear and we have a t-shirt that has be kind on the basil and they are really lovely and well made bears and very very popular so if you're interested please check out moodbears.co.uk so i wanted to ask you about time out so obviously you're a very very busy person ben so before lockdown and i also wanted to talk to you about lockdown um so before lockdown what did you do to help you relax i know you say you like working and you're a bit like me a bit of a workaholic that you feel comfortable working all the time but what do you do to relax to help you de-stress before lockdown and after lockdown yeah so um walking the dogs [Speaker 1] (51:02 - 51:34) who's always one i've loved to do and so a bit restricted so we used to pick um sort of beauty spots nice places to go and obviously when the lockdown uh you know was running at sort of full rate we couldn't do that so that that was always uh difficult because you know we felt sort of uh you know confined um so during lockdown which i do sort of without lockdown anyway which is i watch a lot of youtube videos um i watch a lot of ted talks i've seen you on ted talk anna [Speaker 2] (51:34 - 52:05) i found that quite stressful you know and i was um i did it in edinburgh and what happened was i changed the way i present things so normally i speak quite quickly and i thought i'm going to slow it down i actually felt like i was dying on stage because i'd slowed it down i thought why did i do that and my sister was looking at me but you know i've got a really good response from it but i thought why of all the days why did i change the way i present things anyway sorry because [Speaker 1] (52:05 - 53:31) you've been watching ekard toll on ted talks you know the way he speaks very slowly yeah sorry sorry um carry on yeah um so yeah youtube videos has been one that i watch a lot of um one of the guys actually although it's not particularly relevant to autism but one of the guys that's always inspired me and and really was a big stepping stone in my life was eddie hall who was the world's strongest man first person to pull 500 kilos and he came from a very dark place in his mind and he's got a book out and he's met arnold swartz nigger and different people and um you know he he's always inspired me so i often jump into some of his youtube just to just to never forget where i've come from and how i've got to be as confident as i am because i was always very introvert um and it's something i i still struggle with on a daily basis is confidence and communicating with people so i think that uh you know image of him in my mind i always have visions as well i always vision visualize what i want to where i want to be and then whenever i have doubt or bad days we all have them i just keep that vision in my mind it's like a dream and i keep going yeah one step closer so yeah that's what i do in my spare time is i recharge my batteries but by watching people that uh i want to uh you know i want to take tips from yeah so [Speaker 2] (53:31 - 53:36) just touching on lockdown because i always ask everybody this um how has lockdown affected [Speaker 1] (53:36 - 54:42) your life and your business yeah so the business um a lot of uncertainty to start with um with the staff quite quickly um last march having to work from home it was very unpredictable and we was like what's going on here are we going to be able to continue to run our business fortunately for us we were you know one of the lucky ones because we were online but um it's for us it's been the first few months where we had very low sales but then it did increase because nobody could go to the shops and i think people started to you know understand what it was all about but its mental health is completely you know off the scale like the humber bridge for example over the last week you've had six people jump off the humber bridge oh wow yeah um and you know i've witnessed and even people that i thought were really strong characters through this lockdown i've seen i've really seen some different sides to people yeah i think it affects people in [Speaker 2] (54:42 - 54:55) various different ways so um how about yourself did lockdown affect you as a person or your relationship or has it brought your closer together or is it just your focus on your work [Speaker 1] (54:56 - 55:47) i think that for me um personally i always don't like to say it because it's affected people in such a weird way but for me i've actually quite liked it because having autism i quite like things to be a slower pace um and i've seen that the social community the way people interact it's a bit like when my namma who's 90 she'll talk to me about uh you know how things were back in her day and you know watching sort of history programs and things it's like yeah that's some of there's been some you know there's been some silver linings to this pandemic you know and the community spirit where you know years ago somebody would say oh you know i've not got enough butter and a neighbor would come around with some butter and i just think yeah i think there's been some good sides to it but me personally it's been beneficial um okay yeah i've spoken to quite a few [Speaker 2] (55:47 - 56:34) adults and just like i said what you've just said that basically it hasn't been really any different for them or they've actually quite liked it because there's been less pressure especially um some kids that haven't been able to go to school as well you know they found it better although they found learning online quite difficult yeah i can relate to that yeah so um we've only got a few minutes left um and i just wanted just to um ask you again with reference to your site so people are interested in following you and also uh with reference to harvey's laws t-shirt where can they find that and um you know is it available now all those sort of questions that people might like to ask so you you go right up to 8 xl is that right we do so in the harvey's [Speaker 1] (56:34 - 57:17) law range we stop from extra small females and males from extra small right the way up to 8 xl we have some great designs and we have sublimation prints with the harvey script all over them and then we have um some with the design um i did okay yeah i came up with designs obviously and gave it to designer to you know polish up a bit but the sort of the principle i came up with okay and how's it going it yeah it's going really well um it's really nice to see how many people um you know how many people buy into the uh the cause yeah well i think um bullying's been on [Speaker 2] (57:17 - 58:29) the increase especially online um i have so many families that have contacted me about because of our children and adults being quite vulnerable um you know trying to make friends um and you know and it i have seen some people have actually come off social media as well but mercifully fingers crossed it's been positive experience for me and it's about for me bringing the autism community together about supporting each other on facebook on instagram on twitter sharing my journey with angela and my son i don't write so much about patrick because he doesn't like me too he tells me what i can put up there and so i respect his wishes so with angela and i obviously people follow us you know we do a lot of walking and there and people purposefully look to see you know or anna's still walking with angela or anna's still going type of thing i seem to motivate people so um and i'm quite happy to do that so um yeah so it has been a negative experience for some people as i've said they've come off um social media but for me it's about trying to bring the community together and what's wrong with being kind it's just like it's you know it's for me it's just like a no brainer so um i just wanted to say thank you very much for sharing your story with me then and i definitely think you should write a book [Speaker 1] (58:30 - 58:35) i do as well yeah i'll take you up on that yeah definitely find yourself somebody if you don't [Speaker 2] (58:35 - 59:11) want to write in yourself get somebody to help you get yourself a good ghost writer you need to write a good synopsis um to attract the right people and then hopefully you'll get a publisher on board so i'll be looking forward to reading that and um i just want to say thank you for sharing your story again you know from the ups and the downs and you know you're an inspirational uh gentleman and um i want to wish you all the best with your company and i hope your aspirations for 10 years time come to fruition and i think you should share your story and you know and motivate people and help people so i just want to say thank you um for coming to chat to me on [Speaker 1] (59:11 - 59:20) um women's radio it's a great pleasure and hopefully we can help you uh you know continue to support you with your charity over the years as well so we can can be mutually beneficial [Speaker 2] (59:20 - 59:45) oh thank you maybe one day i'll get to meet you in person because obviously i've seen you chatting to katie on her youtube channel and chatted to you on the phone but i haven't actually met you in person so hopefully one day when maybe i'm down in Middlesbrough come and see you sounds good all right then we'll take care and take care everyone keep strong keep safe we're nearly there we're getting there one day at a time bye everyone bye thank you